/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Lambda is certainty
Bern is miracles

/thread

>>5661896
There's always some meta-meta-meta-power.
One layer of that is YOU, the reader.

>>5661919
thats not what i was talking about, whatever though.., we cant really have a thread because we don't know shit about the metaworld universe and we know nothing about the wicthes at all.

Featherine seems higher than both of them

>>5661932
Both are lesbians?

>he doesn't know about Featherine

ahaha.wav

I wonder if there is a "ruler" of the meta world and the witches?, of course r07 will never fully use this "metaworld" , even though it can be used a lot in even more of his vns to come, and also connect them all together in a fucken awesome way in the end. I would shit bricks.

>>5661965
I do, but i was just talking about bern and Lambdadelta, and i think Lambdadelta might be more powerful then both bern and Featherine, she seems scary like that

Its pretty sad that its been 7 eps, but we still don't know nothing about them or wtf is the meta world in the first, with out all the reasoning that its not real of course.

Is Featherine one of them Touhous you all go on about all the time?

I really don't like the idea of another witch being higher than Bern and Lambda. He had a good thing going with those two, plus the fact that they look like children made their behaviour/nature work that much better. Featherine needs to go.

The metaworld is not real. It doesn't matter who's stronger because they have no effect on anything.

>>5661995

Lambda and Bern are both on the same level.. Jeez, Bern is evens stronger than 34.

>>5662072
>no fun allowed.jpg

>>5662056
Too me they don't look like kids at all,just the clothes they wear i guess, i mean bern has some huge boobs man

>>5662082
well , i don't think so, there's something about 34 that seems like shes hide something ,and her real personalty.

BATTLER's tips sort of say he's on a plane higher than the meta world.

>>5662116
Hiding*

Actually there is not much "superiority" than to beatrice for both of them. The only thing that makes them powerfull is that they keep silent on their origin and they have twisted minds.

Now kids, focus on Shkannon and Person X for a while will you? :3

>>5662072
I don't want too really talk about theories and such but even if it is not real in the human world, it doesn't mean it cant exist in the meta. plus who the hell would Bern and Lambda be?

Okay guys, here are your meta-level explanations, from highest to lowest.

Reader Level - Where Featherinne and Ange are on.
Golden Land Level - Where Battler is on.
Tea Room Level - Where Lambda, Bern and Beato met in the first three hidden tea parties.
Parlor Room Level - Where Beatrice and Battler fought in EP 1-4
Magic World Rokkenjima - Where all the crazy ass battles and magic shit happens
Normal Rokkenjima - The normal, non-magic nonsense, Rokkenjima.

thread over, umineko solved, go home (if you aren't already there)

Lambda herself is afraid of Creator class witches, and there are Angels and Demons, so it's quite possible there's also a True God and True Devil, though whether they're YHWH and Satan is still to be discovered.

>>5662185

Where's the endless Sea of Kakera, glimpsed briefly in EP5?

>>5662186
It's not as much that Bern and Lambda are afraid of Creator class witches, as much as they are afraid of becoming that class. They think that having everything they want happen for them in the blink of an eye will become boring, so they want to stay as voyagers.

>>5662194
Oh yeah right. I think we can stick that either below or above the Reader level, since that's where Battler went and learned the truth at the end of EP 5.

>>5662158
NO, Im tried of you guys ruining umineko with your theories, this thread we will just talk about umineko, no theories.

Meta world doesn't exists

It's just some fanfic written by Hachijo, self-insert version of R07.

>>5662205
Theories are good and it is pretty much the only interresting thing to do.
But the word "theory" covers a rather large scale.
It is always of always talking about the SAME things which is annoying.

>>5662182
I don't think it's supposed to exist at all. Basically, none of this is even happening. It's just symbolic. It represents Battler coming to conclusions and solving the mystery.

>>5662182
concepts.

>>5662185
Theres has too be more too it then that, like how the hell it was made and what is/where did Kakera come from. also I want too know who and where all these witches came from, maybe a all knowing god who has all the traits of the witches?

>>5662228
Threads trying to solve tricks in the episodes are awesome. We had one yesterday or the day before or something. Threads which just say "ShKanon did everything end of mystery fuck off" are stupid.

>>5662228
Thats why im tried of /jp/s mindset, it always has too be somebody cross dressing as someone, why cant it be something better then that? its getting old as fuck

>>5662252
That's what I am saying.
Theories are goods. But " LULZ SHKANNON " or anything else every time is annoying.
You can even say that talking about 34 or Bern could is considered as theorizing.
I was just disagreeing with the " no more theories it is annoying" in the sctrict sense.

>>5662250
Nope. There are many gods.
And withes are the link between humans and gods.

>>5662252
If everything was did by ShKanon then it is stupid. Its simply impossible for everything to be done by just one person :O

>>5662250

You could ask that about any uni/multiverse of any series ever.

98% of them won't give you answers.

>>5662286
Obviously. So why is it that ShKanon is the only thing we ever talk about? Logically speaking we should be trying to pin the mastermind as there's almost no chance ShKanon is the mastermind even if she's killing people.

>>5662250
According to EP 4 it takes two beings to make a world sustain. Ange got Maria to leave the Golden Land that Beatrice made and because of that it was destroyed and she was sent back to the tea room.

>>5662286
try to say that to Shkannonfag.
Well. Let's try to make this thread not go on this way.

>>5662288
I don't know why,but i hate that...

>>5662300
ShKanon is not the mastermind. Its person X disguised as "Beatrice"

>>5662303
I believe that the concept of kakera and of universe (created by 2 people) are different.
I can understand the concept of "universe" in Umineko in real life. But the concept of kakera is way more abstract.

>>5662305
please , don't ruin my thread, I just wanted too have a nice thread about the witches and the umineko universe...

>>5662325
That's why I was saying no to go this way. I'm quite annoyed by Shkannon every time too.

>>5662325
Then lets continue about the concept of "meta worlds" :D Something which is really interesting and something which really makes me continue to read all of this :3

>>5662320
>person X disguised as Beatrice
I was under the impression that ShKanon disguised herself as Beatrice.

This is pretty interesting, I don't think we ever had a thread like this..

Lambda - lamp
Bern - bottle

Can someone explian the Kakeras please?

>>5662250
For this, you should go read Lambda's diary, if you have not done it yet. It is pretty interresting.

>>5662350
17 people on island combined with Shkanon leaves one spot open.

>>5662363
Where can i read it?

>He's still trying to pin it on Culprit X

What a faggot.

>>5662361
I will say it shortly because I'm lazy, maybe someone will make a longer description after me.
But basicaly, it is an "alternate universe" with different possibilities and variations each time.

>>5662363
I never read any of the tips out of the vns..., is there a place with them all translated?

>>5662376
Wattpad have a lot of umineko's tips, IIRC. I'll try to find it for you. Lambda's diary show how she "acknowledged" two witches, and many other things.

>>5662385
thank you, i sort of knew what it was but wanted too know if there was a deeper explanation of it.

http://www.wattpad.com/221071-lambdas-diary?p=1

All of them are not here, but quite a lot.

Featherine right now is on the closest plane to the reader at home. When she demands answers we finally get a game purely about answers with no 'love'.

>>5662250

Kakera are simply parallel dimensions, and we know how did Bern and Lambda became with witch of Miracle and Certainty (though 34 backstory is never explained)

>>5662396
Thank you, i always wanted too read them.

http://www.wattpad.com/221071-lambdas-diary?p=1

All of them are not here, but quite a lot.

If you looks at the right, you'll see

Whose Tea Party?
Game Master BATTLER!
Bern's Letter
Beatrice's White Day
Jessica's Mother's Day Present
Labor Thanksgiving Day Gifts
Anti-Mystery vs. Anti-Fantasy


I recommend Anti mystery vs anti fantasy, and REALLY, REALLY, Bern's letter. But I liked every tips, so...

>>5662321
I never really got that. I always saw kakera/fragments as the gateway into a universe/alternative reality. That's why when Hachijou looks at the fragments to write the tales she's looking directly at an alternative Rokkenjima reality.

>>5662417
Wait so all of berns past is explained in rei? also i was wondering, in the higurashi anime , was that bern at the very ending going back too change takanos past? if so why was she so nice? try too do it with out too many spoilers i guess..

>>5662407
Actually, there isn't.
Umineko made this concept confusing because a lot of people were thinking that Beatrice was a voyager, and could control the kakera for when she starts a new game, when IIRC she can't.

>>5662451
Not really all. There isn't so much about her.

are the tips side material or something like fsn has?

>>5662452
yeah. According to EP 4 TIPs Beatrice is just an infinite witch. She has control over her own domain, but can't leave that domain/fragment yet. With Lambda's help the gameboard transferred to different fragments each time a game ended.

>>5662451
>Wait so all of berns past is explained in rei?

"Bern's past" is basically Higurashi. Her and Rika aren't the same person, though they share the same memories and appearance.

>in the higurashi anime , was that bern at the very ending going back too change takanos past?

Yes

>if so why was she so nice?

She wasn't, she only did that for the lulz

>>5662463
Wait, I thought bern was the one writing the poems in the beginning of each ep though?

>>5662429
Well, it is a gateway, but concretely "our" univrse also are in these fragments.
After all, Bern was wanting to send Erika to a miserable Kakera. Not to a KAkera which was a gateway to a miserable world.

>>5662493
It is frederica Bernkastel. We can suppose that it is the same person, but even here we are not sure. The links between umineko and higurashi re really shady, and even ryukishi himself is eally silent about this.

>>5662493

Yes (Well, 1 poem was written by Rika, but whatever)

>>5662497
No, what I meant was that if you look at the sea there are a bunch of kakera there. The kakera are sort of like portals that voyagers can go through and reach a different universe when they do. They can also send others into different kakera, like Bern did to Erika.

>>5662512
o, I thought frederica Bernkastel was all explained in rei, Of course i never read rei yet, but i thought there was i reason for the poems....

>>5662515
What?, what do you mean? well unless thats a spoiler for rei.

>>5662480
I don't know about this.
Beatrice could also make and endless reccursion of time. Also, it would explain the fact that there is many letters, the letter, once in the sea, is not affected by the closed circle and go back in the "real" world. And the same real world find one one them for each episode.

>>5662543

At the start of every Higurashi game there is a poem written by Frederik Bernastelk, that's all.

>>5662424
so everything other then this inst translated?

>>5662559
o.., I thought it was always something deeper but whatever..

>>5662521
Well yes, kakera are both an universe and a gateway/portal to the same universe.

Out of the subject, but it means that Featherine is at least a voyager.
I don't know why, but she would looks good as a godess. After all she already have a miko.

>>5662568
Their meaning are deeper.
For exemple.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

You still don't know what is the sin?
Then, that itself is your sin.

-Frederica Bernkastel
It is in Higurashi. So, quite old.
And it should remember you something.

>>5662512
There should be 3 Rikas actually.

Furude Rika
Frederica Bernkastel
"Bernkastel"

Rika is Rika, Frederica Bernkastel is the way Rika referred to herself as a person who has lived for centuries and Bernkastel is the collective memories of Rika and the reason she kept remembering the past worlds.

At the end of Rei Hanyuu disconnected Rika from "Bernkastel" so that the former could live as a normal human that doesn't revive when she dies. "Bernkastel" mutated and became the witch we know, without a happy ending like Rika.

In other words, Bern is the collective memories of all the bad end Rika Furude's.

you now understand the Rei OP "Superscription of Data"

I really wonder who 34 is/was..., I have a feeling that's gonna be the next r07 vn, 34s life/"game" that's shes trapped in, building up too the part where she becomes a witch.

>>5662566
There are some other tips translated, but they are scattered all across internet. There is a lot of them on animesuki, but their threads have too many pages, so it is really a pain to find.

>>5662589

Nope, 2 Rikas

Frederika Bernakstel, and Furude Rika

Rika doesn't use a name until Rei, she calls herself "Furude Rika" but she doesn't feel like she's Rika anymore.

>>5662589
Quite a good description, thanks, I was too tired to do it.
Anyway, it also explain the fact that Bernkastel is pretty much a bitch.

>>5662607

>>5662590
I hope so.
After her screentime in umineko, it would be a waste to juste throw away this character.

>>5662589
Then why did Frederica Bernkastel look like a older version of rika, or was that deen trolling us?

>>5662607
Like I posted before, Frederica Bernkastel is how Rika referred to herself as a being that has lived for several hundred years. That's because of the memory storage that is "Bernkastel". So she stopped being Frederica Bernkastel and Hanyuu disconnected Rika from the memory storage. Then that memory storage was granted the miracle of becoming a separate entity, that we now know as Bern.

>>5662626

DEEN is shit.

>>5662589
Very good explanation.
R07 will be proud with a reader such as yourself.

>>5662634
Reported for anime discussion.

>>5662626
It could be possible that Bern can manipulate how her body appears.

Then again, anything is possible with the magic of DEEN

>>5662626
Deen would be a plausible solution if you don't care about it, it's DEEN after all.
But I guess that it was a good way to show a Rika who have "lived" for a very, very long time, as it is pretty much the opposite of loli-Rika.

>>5662633

The problem is, the "storage" doesn't have a name, because Rika doesn't also have.

There is the storage and Rika.
In Rei, Rika starts the "Frederika Bernkastel" thing, but then she realized it was all bullshit and the "storage" used that name, while she want back to being Furude Rika.

>>5662657
And then that storage became Bern. So we have three Rikas, because Bern =/= Rika. Rika distinguished herself as a centuries old being by calling herself Frederica Bernkastel.

>>5662633
sorry for this but, are you saying rika lost all of her memories of the 100 years right after she won the game and the memories became Frederica Bernkastel? and in the beginning Frederica Bernkastel was good and that was the reason she went back in time and changed takanos past? Then later became bern?

I think all tips are colelcted here: http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS

>>5662305
Erm dude.
Nobody is saying shkanon is the mastermind here.
Shkanon is pretty much 99% confirmed and is the "key" to solving most of the riddles in seacat. Nobody is saying they are the mastermind and shit. We are still missing the motives and why are they acting this way.

It is pretty ironic that the things people come up with to deny shkanon are even more idiotic than R07 DID.

>>5662657
What the hell is with this "storage", was it a thing rika could talk too?, what the hell is the deal with it?

>>5662682
She didn't lose the memories. Hanyuu disconnecting Rika from the memory storage only meant that if Rika died it would be for good.

>>5662682
>sorry for this but, are you saying rika lost all of her memories of the 100 years right after she won the game and the memories became Frederica Bernkastel?

Nope, why would you thought that?
She died many times, simply every time she died her memory a copy of her is sento to Bern

Basically, think of Bern has USB-Pen and Rika has a file that travelers between Kakeras (PC)

>and in the beginning Frederica Bernkastel was good and that was the reason she went back in time and changed takanos past?

Bern was never good, the reason she changed Takano pass it's because she felt like she became a god.
She also planed to do evil shit to all the characters in the other kakeras.

>>5662682
>went back in time
You mean different kakera.

Is it true that Rika was Featherinne's piece in Higurashi game?

>>5662745

Nope.

>>5662745
Hanyuu is the piece.
Rika is just her miko/reader.

>>5662754

More like Hanyuu is the GM that forget to play.

This is some confusing shit, you guy should be talking about this stuff instead of making random theories. somebody needs too make a detailed chart or something..

>>5662754
So why was Rika stuck in the endless recursion of time when Featherinne abandoned the game if she was just a reader?

>>5662754
>>5662771
how and why did she forget, what made her?

>>5662775
You should learn to read and think for yourself.
It is more fun to reach realization by yourself instead of getting spoon fed by the author.

>>5662777

Rika isn't "stuck".

Hanyuu basically started this shit, but after that she forgot how to play and started to angst, and she keeps repeating shit until a good kakera appear.

>>5662777
How do you finish reading something that has no end?

>>5662787

Hanyuu sucks

"Durr durr let's wait until a good kakera came"

>>5662790
sorry, I just didn't read rei so , its interesting too me..

Want i want too know is who started these "games"

>>5662714
>>Nobody is saying they are the mastermind and shit.

Then you, sir, are an exception. I can swear it. Really. There is not so much Shkannonfags who consider it as a key but there is still other things to search after that.
Even if I still don't like Shkannon, I've nothing against this knid of people. At least they are not "umineko was the murders, Shkannon kills everyone because she's insane and nothing else, umineko is finished, goodbye" (yeah, some people actually think it, it is not only trolls....)
Well, we'll have another thread for this soon enough, let's not pollute this one, it is talking about something else in every case.


And I will be a bit off the subject right now, but what about Featherine as a master for Rika as a piece in higurashi? We do know that the master had "forgotten his goal", which could explain why Rika was always killed and didn't had any chance.And also why a piece was needed to change everything because her master didn't care, which can probably count as a miracle.

>>5662809

Then read it

It's short and there is a lot of interesting shit.

>>5662827
Witches. To relieve their boredom and to laugh at faggots being put through the same hell they went through before.

>>5662801
Why did she start is in the first place? why did she forget?

What's the relation between Featherinne and Hanyuu? Is it the same as Bernkastel and Meta-Erika in Umineko?

>>5662837
Its not translated...

>>5662827

Higurashi, well...

You can say Takano or Hanyuu

Takano had a will that can fuck fate thanks to 34 powers, and she killed Rika

Hanyuu used her powers to bring Rika back, and they started to travel between Kekara, hoping for a good world.

>>5662844
>Why did she start is in the first place?

For saving Rika. She didn't want her only friend after 1000 years of suffering and lowliness to die.

>why did she forget?

Because Hanyuu believed Fate couldn't be changed, so she didn't do nothing other than waiting.

>>5662844
Her powers weakened and because after a while she became so upset with seeing Rika continuously dying she decided to just wait and pray for the miracle of a good fragment with nothing going wrong.

She didn't play and wait. Think of it like having a skill, like playing an instrument. If you don't play it for some time you forget how to.

>>5662845
Actually, we don't know. But we can suppose it this way. After all, they even have similarities in their names.

>>5662855
so did hanyuu talk too 34 , Was 34 all alone doing this shit, must of been lonely

>>5662874

I don't think so.

>>5662874
If Higurashi was the game between Bern and Lambda it's possible that Lambda took control of the board and Bern became the player in Hanyuu's place. See pic for details on what happened in the last game, which makes sense considering a bunch of kids took down trained soldiers with tricks.

>>5662874
Thats what i want too know, what was 34 doing and was she just pathetically doing all that shit by herself, if you think about it she was more so a god and the most powerful being in higurashi.

>>5662894
but i thought bern was alive yet..

>>5662905
sorry, wasn't* alive yet

>>5662902

She led Takano the power of "certainty"

As long Takano didn't give up, she would reach her goal.

>>5662905
If Higurashi has layers similar to Umineko then it's possible for Bern to have gained life in the meta-layer that Lambda controlled the board from. Then when Hanyuu disconnected Rika from the memory bank, Bern became free and elevated to a voyager witch.

>>5662905
>but i thought bern was alive yet..

Weeeell

>>5662911
well, I mean more of in the meta world, I guess it was like watching tv all by herself.

>>5662894
I hope R07 third game is a prequel of Lambdadelta hell with no shitty mystery. Make it a horror and real deal game instead.

>>5662921
well, i meat wasn't* sorry a little tried..

>>5662925
But he has to keep writing more shitty romance, without even getting that horror/gore is the thing he writes the best.

>>5662925
someone ,should write a email too him, I think someone did write something too him before..

>>5662925

34 must have been awesome as human
I mean, SHE'S MOTHEFUCKING CERTAINTY

>>5662948
Yeah but she most likely had too go through a "silent hill" game too get that title

>>5662936
What fucking romance, he's too busy adding meta to show us anything close to a romance. I hope next episode turns Shkanon into a red herring, so that we don't have the shitty romance clusterfuck he seems to be wanting to give us. Give us Kanontrice since it would be a lot more decent of a relationship than anything else he could give us at this point.(Shannon is a slut, and KanonXJessica has no basis outside of a couple of shitty meta scenes.)

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