/jp/ - Otaku Culture

erika being a bro to dlanor ;_;

alive

Haven't finished reading yet, but I've been listening to the BGM ever since the game came out, so I can safely say I like setsuna, rog-limitation mst and lg kina9mx.

Oh, and obviously, the obligatory zts song.

I like cheese solver, Battler

the first twilight
ruirair

Hmm... Erika revealing that she did the first twilight. Doesn't get any better than crazy Erika.

BGM? The one Bern's image song is based off of. dai_001(blue) is the filename, don't know what it's called ingame. Song in general? Usan no Kaori, the ending to ????. Got it on loop.

Jessica vs Kyrie is by far the best part of the episode.

Rog Limitation, and Life are particulary good.

birth of new witch

i liked the part where jessica attacked kyrie

idk, it was just cool

That ending song, birth of new witch.

I find it quite catchy.

Logic error battle
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru EP6 BGM - 罪

>What was your favorite part of episode 6?
All the parts that confirmed shkanontrice
>What was your favorite BGM from episode 6?
'Life', shkanontrice's theme

The wedding crush and the subsequent duel.
Birth of the new witch.

>>5649376
Kill yourself.

"Then burn in the fires of your jealously for all eternity"

Jessica confirmed for FUCKING AWESOME.

The part where you realize that Jessica is indeed a flaming lesbian.

Erika's amazing plan was great, Jessica's fight was pretty damn cool, and I suppose I liked Erika's final stand as well.

>What was your favorite part of episode 6?
Logic Error scenes and ????
>What was your favorite BGM from episode 6?
lg_usan_uta_full

>>5649365
>Life
I wish someone would make sheet music for this already.

The usual spots (Dai's site, Jose_to_Chloe, etc) don't have much of anything for ep6 and I suck at playing by ear.

Erika's last moments were the best of the ep, she never gave up, you could feel her life was on the line. Also best death of umineko while conscious, she died with dignity.
Alive or BoNW

Im still reading it, so far the parts with the unknown person being locked in the room/hallway are my favorite parts. When she/he got his/her wrist stuck in the glass window, I shivered a little.

>>5649436
Like it wasn't obvious it's Battler.

Erika's death, Jessica's fight, and of course Dlanor and the Eisferne's reaction to Erika vs Maria.

Erika's last stand, Jessica vs Kyrie

lg_usan_uta_full

>>5649447
motherfucker

>>5649451

George came off as a creepy virgin in this episode.
Shannon came off as a total bitch in this episode.
Kanon was extremely moe.

Look is my choice for best bgm.

>>5649479
Who else could it be then?

Lambdadelta

Jessica and Erika shined brightly in this episode.

Life is probably my favorite BGM.

"Sorry, 17" with trollfaces, Kanon and Shannon pointing each other at the end of the duel, Kanon saving Battler.

Battlefield and Birth of a new witch

The wedding crash

Birth of the New Witch

>>5649506
>Kanon was extremely moe.
and a cool bro

The wedding crash, no contest.

ALIVE, though I also seem to be the only one who adores Path.

At this one point in EP6 Where Battler and Beatrice declare together that they have defeated Erika through Beatrice's closed room my game crashes. I've tried reinstalling the game and re-patching it. However that hasn't worked so I thought if I could bypass that scene by importing save game files from my friend. What does the save game file look like and how in what other ways can I bypass this problem?

I'm not sure what my favorite part was but my favorite bgm is most definitely lg_usan_uta_full.

Every scene with Erika.
She is the best adversary ever presented in Umineko, and the best villain in the entire history of literature.

>>5649548
She is an idiot who was defeated by the most stupid plot device ever.

>>5649548
Subtle

>>5649553
Dueling with magical duel guns is magically awesome.
Or something

>>5649553
She's also a non-virgin slut.

I laughed so hard during the candy battle and the "YOUR A MOOOOOROOOOOOON"

Ruriar is a great track and in fact it is playing right now as I find this thread.

My favorite part of EP6 is how I can't complete it because the game keeps crashing or sprites and backgrounds keep vanishing.

;_;

>>5649553
That's the problem with Umineko.
It has some epic music, grand magical duels and people who talk like THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS but when you get down to it, what they argue about is always fucking stupid.
Doubly so in this episode, the logical error was a good concept but the last closed room was just so cheap and solved so stupidly.

>>5649592
True.

It's fun to read though, so as long as you don't take it SUPER SERIOUSLY, it can be very entretaining.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9350396

Japan or just nico users' top 30 scenes in EP6

>>5649425
You're not going to get better at playing by ear unless you try playing by ear. Just go do it pussy. Right now.

>>5649615
It's quite too long and it tries too hard to just go with a 'lighthearted mood'.

>>5649543
>>5649589

That sucks. I remember at some point there was a link to a replacement file for those who had an issue with crashing but I didn't save it.

>>5649592
>last closed room was just so cheap and solved so stupidly.

That was the point. The witch is supposed to be cheap as hell.

The part where it was confirmed that Amakusa killed Kasumi's bodyguards (and her too) with the consent of the Sumadera family. Oh, and the thing that he let Kasumi kill Ange plus "World Peace", "Portable Shrine"

Best moments were probably Maria vs Erika and Erika revealing that she did the first twilight for the RAGE.
Also Beatrice vs Erika and the scenes where Battler is trying to get out from the closed room.

Best BGM would be Blue Butterfly (dai_001(blue)) but in my opinion it was wasted for the scenes with Kanon and Shannon (would have preferred if it was used for some Battler x Beato moments).

Also liked Life, Alive, Rebirth, battlefield, Birth of a new witch and Usan no kaori.

EP6 BGM was pretty good in my opinion

Anyone like the Dragon Quest BGM

"Doesn't that mean that everyone got so pissed at Erika that they joined together and set up a fake murder to make fun of her?"

Episode 5 solved.

>>5649860
Erika doesn't exist so no

>>5649864
If she doesn't exist, how could she be able to kill 5 people, walk in a room (body counted) and stuff?
If "Erika" was the name of someone other, there must have been a hint for it

>What was your favorite part of episode 6?
all bern scenes
all erika scenes
terminator jessica
>What was your favorite BGM from episode 6?
birth of new witch, played when erika dies and spins ;_;

>>5649871
There is a hint, she wears jessica's dress, she doesn't exist according to the final red.

>>5649889

Don't most people interpret that Red to mean Shannon is Kanon?

Not that I want to get into that, but can you really take that for granted?

>>5649889

And yet Jessica was incapable of killing, even for Kanon. If Jessica is Erika, she'd need a 2nd personality, and, at that point, why not just stick with Shanon/Kanon which has more evidece?

holy shit, how can you guys hate ep6, this is fucking epic shit. I never would of guessed she would come back.

>>5649889
How would her dress imply that it's her?
She is the only female girl among the cousins other than Maria, it's not weird that she got Jessica's clothes.

Besides they mentioned how it was perfect for her size and how it doesn't fit Jessica.

And that final red also claims that even she was added, they would be 17.

>>5649951
I expect Womb and Ring Rape doujins for this autumn

Erika revealing why Kyrie, etc were unable to save Battler,

Erika's entrance... hm... What else...

Jessica vs Kyrie...

The new BGM, I think Patchwork Chimera,

the song that played during Kyrie going into the door and Jessica trying to punch it open...

Birth of New Witch...

Erika vs Beato...

And Kanon saving Battler!

Shkanon duel

ALIVE, Birth of New Witch

Oh yeah, the cheese scene was good, as was "YOUR A MOROOOOOOOON!"

So how many people here laughed at Battler during his struggle on cheese quiz

>>5649940
> If Jessica is Erika, she'd need a 2nd personality, and, at that point, why not just stick with Shanon/Kanon which has more evidence?
Because Eva-Beatrice didn't directly deny Battler's (admittedly far-fetched) theory about Jessica having a witchlike personality in Episode 3, instead just stating in red that no one could have committed the crime using Jessica's body (or something along those lines)?

Personally, I find Doubletrice to be the most attractive theory.

>>5649516
I agree.

Jessica's interactions with everyone were HILARIOUS.

Honestly, it's like she was aware of how retarded everyone was being, and then just shrugged and said FINE GEEZ. I used to have a problem with her being a culprit, but honestly, her deadpan humor would be welcomed.

Erika was also in top shape, taking Battler's pretentious game and beating it in the most simple way possible.

Too bad the plot made her lose.

How far in the game am I if I just passed the George vs Eva-BEATRICE part?

>>5650149
half

>>5650149
You still got quite a long way to go.

>>5650149
probably 2/5?

Battler: SEE I DIDN'T GET TRAPPED IN A LOGIC ERROR NATSUHI CAN SAVE ME

Erika: NOPE I KILLED HER, LOL

Lambdadelta, Kyrie, and Jessica were also good.

"My favorite one was the first twilight of the second game, when you said the culprit killed everyone by feeding them small bombs."

>What was your favorite part of episode 6?

Erika last scene was beautiful
Erika vs Battler closed room and Kanon "death" in the close were also good.

>>5650161

Awesome, thanks.

EP6 is probably the worst game so far. I don't have a favorite part.

>>5650184
The answer was much more simple.

The culprit was a whore who wanted to be gang-banged by the three cousins for all eternity, so she killed everyone to open the golden land.

>>5649889

She existed in that story

Different tales, different reality, different red.

>>5650214
Well, there's a fiction aspect to all of this, but I hold out hope that we'll get kakeras. As Ange says, as things stand it doesn't matter if Battler proves the culprit was Fuzzy Lumpkins, her family is DEAAAAAAAAAAAD.

Plus I want Sayo in a loony bin, I don't want her to be rewarded by being with Battler, Jessica, and Geor-

Actually, I don't want her in a loony bin, I want her to end up with George.

>>5649889

She does exist, she went missing after falling off of the "Eternal Maid II". She wasn't confirmed to be on Rokkenjima though.

Although the final red may interpret as Shkannon making the character count 16 + Erika = 17

Only good part was Erica killing everyone.
The wedding and duel are totally shit even for umineko.
The "rebirth" of Beatrice made it shit right from the start.

If they give Sayo a freudian excuse I will rage.

Hell all of Umineko has been a really shitty version of the Kohaku route.

Erika, Jessica, and Lambdadelta made this episode bearable. But I must say, it was the worst in the series by far.

>Favorite part
The cheese scene, YOU KILLED MAAMAAAAAH, everything with Erika, and moe Kanon.
>Favorite BGM
Definately Prison Strip and liberatedliberator.

>>5650267
Her tears. Her smile.

They were real.

Why do people hate this episode?

you guys think Erika doesn`t exist? jesus guys, really?

>>5650283
just the theory fags do.

>>5650283

People who still don't accept shkannon or are incompetent enough to not understand the second twilight.

>>5650283
it's a love or hate episode

>>5650299
I understand and accept both.

I can also say that this episode sucks.

>>5650318
Why does it suck then, atleast give an argument.

I think the scene where Erika gets the Duct Tape was a lovely call back to Episode 3.

pic related

>>5650328
Beyond the god awful, insulting, and pretentious Featherine scenes?

Mainly because of the sharp contrast we're shown.

It's explained quite clearly that Shkanontrice is the killer, And yet, the episode is clearly a love letter to Beatrice. I can't quite root for Beatrice while at the same I'm being told that she is a murderer.

Battler continues to be an incompetent moron despite his epiphany and powerful showing in the end of episode 5, and in the end, the wedding, and everything feels so unnatural and forced.

Battler marrying Beatrice should be an awesome moment, but it comes across as a bad and borderline horrific thing, along with the faux-ending that has Eva chatising George for being fat.

newfag here how do you patch 6

>>5650288

I know, It's idiotic.

>>5650390
Must have been one hell of an epiphany.

>>5650468

All I did was install my EP6, and use the WH patch, and it all worked out from there with 0 problems.

Erika logic bombing the game was the moment where I stopped hating her guts and actually had to respect how totally she cornered Battler.

Which meant that by the time of her last stand I was crying like a bitch.

>>5650468

You have to send Witch Hunt member a copy of Umineko as proof of your love

Fav part: USHIROMIYA KYRIE CANNOT SAVE BATLER
BGM: liberatedliberater

Can't wait for EP7. With Bern GM it'll be glorious BLOOD AND HATE. BLOOD AND HATE EVERYWHERE

Ange died in EP4, but she's back in six, thus making that drama pointless.

Beatrice "died" in EP5, her ass is pretty much back by the end of 6, thus making all of that pointless.

It's becoming difficult for me to feel sadness towards these characters when I know fucking Ryukishi is just going to bring them back immediately.

>>5650545
>Ange died in EP4, but she's back in six, thus making that drama pointless.

Ange still going to die.


>Beatrice "died" in EP5, her ass is pretty much back by the end of 6, thus making all of that pointless.

Our Beato is dead.

>>5650545
Ange's still dead in 6.

>>5650539

Which will make it totally hilarious when Lamba trolls her honey by siding with Battler and Baeto.

Seriously, it's a sign of how far the troll throttle has been pushed that she comes across as the most reasonable witch in EP.6.

Also hell yes, EP.& is going to be awesome. The odd numbered Episodes are always better.

>>5650539
Cape version

>>5650539
We need BLOOD AND HATE.

Beatrice needs to be exposed as the murderer she is.

Course knowing Bern that won't actually happen, but still.

>>5650586

Are you joking?

Bern is monster.

>>5650586

Knowing Bern, she'll start a Battle Royale with the prize to the last person standing being the 20 tons of gold. The winner of course will be Eva.

Bern will then drop the 20 tons of gold on her. "Exact words right? *Cackle*cackle*

>>5650599

Not sick enough. Needs more cannibalism and goat rape.

>>5650586
> Beatrice needs to be exposed as the murderer she is.

Whatever Beatrice did, she's no murderer. There's no other good explanation for why Battler completely broke down when he figured out the truth.

>>5650615
I know, that's why I currently hate episode 6.

Beato's trollface and ahaha.wav during the wedding.

I came buckets.

I pretty much liked every part of ep 6.

In EP7 I want to see if Bern actually does possess some destructive power. I also want a Bern epic action scene (Beato vs Lia-like)

I liked the logic error scenes before the reader was told what they are, but... how the fuck is it possible for a LE to ever occur? LE happens when redtext conflicts itself, but as we saw back when Battler had his own little existential crisis, it's impossible to speak red that isn't true. So what the fuck?

It's not new to ep 6 but rising on my list is Apathy, i like that track a lot.

>>5650390

I thought that was the funniest thing about this episode. Fucking hilarious.

>>5650640
Wrong. A logic error happens when the Game Master does not have an explanation for which an event can be done by human means after having used red text to eliminate all other possibilites. It's exactly what it's called: an error of logic. The Game Master either has to come up with a proper solution or have someone else do it for them to get out of it, otherwise the game gets completely fucked up and they get stuck in the logic error forever.

>>5650640
Well in the case of episode 6 its because of the retcons that Battler let Erika make. Even so there wasn't really a logic error, Battler refused to use the one option open to him as that would reveal the truth about Beatrice, so he was accused of having made a logic error.

>>5650667
It doesn't just have to be the GM. Anybody can be caught in a logic error.

But yeah, it's basically where the state of the gameboard contradicts the rules of the game, I think.

>>5650667
Also, see: Bern's past. Her master created a situation that ended in an infinite recursion, couldn't figure it out, and left Bern on her own. On the other hand, Bern thinks that it wasn't a miracle that let her out, but someone's design. So, who's design was it?

>>5650638

This is admitting the reason I want Lambda to troll Bern. Not only has Lambda's "I will trap Bern in this kakara and keep her to myself for all~ eternity!" monologue to Ange been dropped and it's about time Ryu bring that back into the plot

But because seeing the Witches of Certainty and Miracles do battle would be so epic my eyes would be burned out of their sockets.

Erika slobbering on Battler's finger was the best part

This episode lacked KINZO.

>>5650667
>Wrong. A logic error happens when the Game Master does not have an explanation for which an event can be done by human means after having used red text to eliminate all other possibilites.

And "eliminating all other possibilities using red" would be an example of red text conflicting with itself. It should simply not be possible to speak red that would do that, since some part of it would inevitably be wrong.

>>5650694
Hard to be anywhere when you are DEEEEAAAD

>>5650710

This is my biggest compliant with the Episode. All this new crap about "Red Text is absolute but a contradiction can occur." seems to go completely against what we've been told RED TEXT IS so far.

>>5650710
Not quite. Red text is not the "truth" as we were originally led to believe. It's the truth in that, when red text that refers to events on the gameboard is stated, those events become static. Before red text is used to refer to them, THE GM CAN SAY AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. Well, as long as there's no detective around to witness things, because that's kinda like implicit red truth.

In other words, red text doesn't reveal; it limits.

>>5650710

I guess it goes like this:

1) Red text is an accurate, absolute description of the facts of the game world and cannot conflict with those facts

2) however, those facts can conflict with themselves (if the gamemaster has been an idiot and made a broken, poorly designed game) and this is where LE happens.

In other words, red text pertains to some made-up game world, and that world itself may have problems in its construction.

>>5650727
You seem to be forgetting how Battler logic error'd himself out of existence at the end of Episode 4 because he didn't stop to think that there may be more than one Ushiromiya Battler out there and that Rudolf could still have been his father.

>>5650748

This doesn't work either.

We have basically been shown two conflicting versions of how red text works: one where it is possible to lie with red, but an LE will occur and trap you until you can weasel out of that lie, and another version where it flat out is impossible to speak red that isn't true, even if you think it's true.

I cannot see how these two uses of red can fit together.

>>5650730
> Before red text is used to refer to them, THE GM CAN SAY AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.
Good GMs will have most stuff planned out ahead of time, though. Of course, you can never plan for EVERYTHING beforehand, in case players do something really stupid like kill an important NPC they were supposed to be keeping alive which screws up the entire quest and forces the GM to rewrite the scenario completely....

>>5650772
All red text we've seen that could not be completed (and thus was assumedly false) was text referring to events occurring off of the gameboard. In other words, events that were already determined and known to the world. The logic error stuff happens with red text involving the gameboard, which is under the control of the GM.

>>5650692

Lambda has been shown to be a neutral party (with a bias to whatever will make the situation more hilarious)

Her character has gotten a little bit more muddied in this episode I will admit.

>>5650787
-"and known to the world"

Pretty sure the outside world didn't know about Battler's birth circumstances.

Red Text is always a fact, no exceptions
have two facts contradicting each other = logic error

Beatrice FINALLY getting some of her old personality back when she crashs the wedding.

You never know what you have until it's gone.

Alive and resurrectedreplayer are the best tracks

>>5650820

We figured out that part. The problem is that as shown in one of the earlier episodes, it is impossible to speak red that isn't true. If you try to make a false statement with red, you choke and the words don't come out. And one definition of facts is that they cannot contradict each other: one of them must be false, ergo not speakable with red.

Apparently the explanation is that lying with red works differently when you're a game master than when you're a player. It's still unconvincing.

>>5650871

One thing I never figured out is that since player-Battler could speak red true, why didn't he just attempt to state sentences in red until he found out what's true and what's not? "Natsuhi is the culp.... ghhh... Krauss is the ggghff... Kyrie is the culprit, hey fuckers it works!"

>>5650885
It's just fine for Battler to state things about events outside the gameboard in red, but he can't refer to things on the gameboard in red unless he witnessed them as the detective or the GM used red about it. It's the same reason a player in a tabletop RPG can't say "okay, that enemy is going to move to this square so I can attack it next round". It's against the rules, because the GM determines how the NPCs move.

Favorite Part:
1. The Duel. Shannon and Kanon.
2. The Duel. Beatrice and Erika.

Favorite Monologues:
1) Erika's "Love shows you things that are not there"
2) Kanon's lecture to Beatrice. It was exactly what needed to be said. They got too caught up in explaining. It's basically like litigation-- the defenses job is not to prove that their client is innocent, only to make a solid case for not guilty and to undermine the position of the prosecution.

Favorite BGM:
Alive.

I was surprised at how much it grew on me, but it played during most of the best moments.

Really, I think that 6, for not being a pure mystery and being more of a theme examination, was still incredible. I was happy with it.

>>5650921
>It's just fine for Battler to state things about events outside the gameboard in red

Then there's no problem. The real culprit is outside the gameboard, in the real world.

>>5650710

If Battler had actually committed a Logic Error, the game-board would have collapsed and the world would have ended. That gets said later on.

Battler simply got trapped because he could not think of a solution without a logic error-- if there was not one, it would have been game end. But there was one so it kept going until he found it.

>>5650871
But the thing is that it doesn't "directly" contradicts each other

Saying "room is sealed" and "Battler is outside the room" is indirect

While saying something like "Battler is dead" and "Battler is alive" would be directly contradicting...which clearly shows one has to be a lie....and I'm pretty sure even Battler would choke trying to say either one of these lines after the other

>>5650997
These particular ones, no.

It could be that the Second Battler is dead and the First One is alive.

Two Battlers ;)

I like this ep as much as all the other eps, but i guess thats because i don't follow the theories and hate. I just play it like ever other vn. thats all.

I thought this thread was a "i love ep6 thread", not the same "ep6 " shit thread.....

I didn't like that Battler married moetrice.

Even in troll mode she still moetrice, and it's not our Beato ;_;

>>5651375
and I think it's implied moetrice died too..."put to rest"

Loved? DAT TRAP

Track that really grew on me quick was Loreley.

I just got to the part where they discussed the "lovers' trial," and now Erika and Dlanor are chatting in the guestroom. About how far am I?

>>5651431

2/10ths?

>>5651431
40%

I love how most of the people bitching about EP6 are whining because either a) they're jumping to conclusions about the information we've been given and fabricating their own situations to bitch about or b) they're mad because Ryukishi insulted him.

I must say, I got slightly aroused whenever Ryukishi called his fanbase stupid. Umineko fandom's had it coming for ages.

>>5650619

I'm fairly sure that ep 6 doesn't in any way cement in Beatrice as the murderer. If anything, it seems to suggest that Bernkastel is somehow behind it all.

>>5651399
oh, zepar... <3

How would /jp/ rank each episode, in order of most enjoyable to least enjoyable?

>>5651484

3 > 1 > 5 > 4 > 2

Now out.

>>5651484
Hmm. This is a rank in terms of quality for me, but quality usually affects level of entertainment for me anyway, so whatever.

EP5 > EP3 >= EP4 > EP6 > EP2 > EP1

>>5651484

1-4 okay, 5 ass, 6 good.

(disclaimer: it's been so long since I read 1-4 that I hardly remember what the hell happened in each of them, let alone their quality. but I fucking hated 5 and thought 6 was a huge improvement.)

Anyone else come in thinking they were going to hate Zepar and Furfur and then end up liking them?

Shkanontrice is impossible because in episode 2 Beatrice states in red that Kanon is dead while shannon is seen alive by battler.

>>5651505

Yes.

>>5651484
EP5>EP3>EP6>EP1>EP2>EP4

>>5651461
Bern doesn't even know the truths until Super Hanyuu showed up

>>5651495
This pretty much.

5>3>=6>4>2>1

Holy fuck, just got up too kyrie, she is a freaken crazy devil yandere. Not that i hate her, but she sacred the shit out of me.

>>5651509

The Kanon personality was dead. This is the mechanism by which Shkanon works, and why it sucks: it circumvents the dead/alive status of people by making it so that personalities count as "people" and can "die" even though the person behind them is alive and well.

>>5651505

Z and F's main problem was that their every single word was LOVELOVELOVELOVE. They're the most single-note characters in the whole series.

>>5651495

Reasons for 5 being ass:
- Beato does nothing for the entire episode, just sits there with empty eyes. THIS IS NOT DRAMATIC, IT'S JUST DULL.
- Battler doesn't do much of anything either.
- Erika doesn't even pretend to follow any kind of logic, she just calls red text out of the sky and appeals to magical horseshit rules and "authority" that are every bit as fantastic as witch's magic.

ep 4,5,6 are LOVE or HATE episodes, while ep3 is universally loved...don't know why

>>5651484

EP3>EP5>EP4 Second Half>EPII=VI>EPIV First Half

EP1.. i don't know where to rank it, really.

>>5651513
>>5651524
>>5651492

Why do you all put 5 as the best? It was horrible.

>>5651542
Because 4, 5, and 6 focus much more heavily on the themes than the mystery.

>>5651549

No, it wasn't.

>>5651549
my taste > your taste

>>5651542

Because all the awesome shit that happens in it.

>>5651549
>>5651558
>>5651564
Opinions.

>>5651524
I think im gonna go with this, I remember ep4 being really boring, also, i really like ep6, alot of crazy shit is happening.

>>5651542
Because pretty much everyone in EP 3 got a good amount of development in screen time. The parents were all awesome for the fist time, Beatrice trolled Battler to oblivion and so forth. It has the best pacing and it was just generally the best episode yet in terms of everything.

>>5651549
It wasn't horrible; I found it was excellent. I liked the character development, I adored the exploration of the series' themes, and it still had enough of that over-the-top ridiculousness that makes me love Umineko.

If you don't like it, you're entitled to your own opinion, though. I don't really care about what you like.

EP 3 > EP 5 > EP 4 = EP 6 > EP 1 > EP 2

EP 6 was good for the crazy battles, but a lot of the stuff wasn't so great.

Why people hate ep 2?

Yeah, Jessica, George and Shkannon.. but also red text, all the good music for the first time and Musou Rosa.

>>5651614
It's pretty much just because of the beginning. Umineko fandom doesn't like it when stories focus on anything other than KEWL BATTLES or HARDCORE MYSTERY.

>>5651007
Ah, yes. It'll be interesting to see if Jessica can bear that title.

Ep 6 is really awesome if you like battles, crazy action, and surprises and love. also if you don't care about /jp/s theories

>>5651614

Rosa is boring. Rosa is obnoxious.

>>5651636
A girl named Battler would be hot, no doubt.

>>5651614
I like it, but I just like the other episodes more

the only beef i have with ep6,no kinzo........., yeah that all.

>>5651614
>all the good music for the first time
>Musou Rosa.

And that's it. That's all that EP 2 was good for.

So, I just go Internet back, so please forgive me if this has already been adressed.

Assuming Shkanon is true, and that the number of people won't move from 17, we have:

1. Krauss
2. Eva
3. Rudolph
4. Rosa
5. Jessica
6. George
7. Battler
8. Maria
9. Natsuhi
10. Hideyoshi
11. Kyrie
12. Nanjo
13. Genji
14. Kumasawa
15. Gohda
16. Shkanon
17. ?????????

Would the 17th person be Erika or someone else?
Assuming Shkanon is true, but Shkanontrice isn't, could it be the 17th person be the human Beatrice?

>>5649889
"Even if we welcome you"
That means she exists, and they welcomed her

"The amount of people on this island is 17"
Means that if they didn't welcome here, the amound would be 16.

>>5651705

Red text battle motherfucker, do you know them?

I wonder if battlers mom will appear in ep7?

>>5651723
What, you haven't recognized Gohda yet?

>>5651736
what...., this one more shit theory?

>>5651715
Alternative explanation.

"Even if we welcome you there are still 17 people."

Means:

"Even if we welcome you, you are actually just an abstract personification of parts of one of us. You are just a concept".

That is why Erika disappears-- her concept has been denied.

It is fine for her to be a "person" but not fine for her to be a "human".

In legal jargon, even corporations are treated as "Persons" they are not treated as human bodies or beings however.

>>5651715
Yes, the hellish real truth about herself that Erika decided she must accept in her final moments in that last exchange, so she could leave with dignity as the Witch of Truth, the truth that wiped out her existence was that, shock of shocks, she's not the 18th person... she's the 17th.

Whatever you say, bro.

>>5651715
>"The amount of people on this island is 17"

"It still 17"

It means Erika is dead in "true" Rokkenjima, she was literally write in the story by Bern.

>>5651705
EP2 was awesome in
-showing Battler's determination (answer scene) and his justice
-giving a full display of what a witch is capable of right from the start
-red text
-Rosa Musou
-showing the consequences of going against a powerful and cruel enemy (Battler striped naked, became furniture, Rosa forced to eat family etc.)

it's good, just not as good as other episodes, which bring EP2's good points to a whole new level

>>5651723
Battler's real mom has been around since EP 1. If it isn't Kyrie then who.

>>5651844
beatos

>>5651812
-Yeah and then for the rest of the episodes he just acts like a crying wimp until the end of EP 5
-I think this was more of EP 3 with Beatrice fighting Virgilia, Evatrice summoning the Siestas, etc
-Fine
-Fine
-Beatrice turned out to be the heroine and her role as villianess was subverted.

>>5651844
Kumasawa is Battler's mom.

>>5651780
Whether Erika exists or not

when Beato/Battler says "even if we welcome you", it implies "even if we assume you exist", meaning Erika represents 1 person on the island

So, is there any villain left in Umineko other than Bern and Auaurora?

Whoever the culprit of the murders of Rokkenjima is, I'm sure, will be redeemed after we are explained how he/she had a tragic past, or something along those lines.

>>5651812
Was ep2, the ep with rosa running away with the bag of gold? If so then i liked that ep alot, I had a really good laugh at that part.

>>5651884
Regardless of if Erika is welcomed or not, the number stays static. 17 with her, 17 without her.

>>5651884
Some people would take as "even if we take you into consideration, the number of people doesn't change;" therefore, she doesn't exist as a person.

Who knows? I love Erika. I hope she's okay.

>>5651891
Yes, that's EP2.

>>5651888
Why do we need a villain?

It's a tragedy. It is painful that a family is falling apart and lying and murdering to each other.

There are no villains.
There are people.
People who really had some horrible stuff happen.
And people who have really horrible motives as well.

If you want a villain to convict, all of them have some bad parts-- any of them can play the villain.

But I'd rather see forgiveness.

Sorry but, without love it cannot be seen. And as we all know, /jp/ is without love.

Why is there so much hate for Episode 4? I think that was the best episode of them all. Sure, the first half was pretty boring, but the second half of the episode was amazing. Not to mention some of the best music in the series, and the best Tea Party and ??? yet.

Then again, I played the partial patch, so I got most of the boring shit out of the way early.

Random off the wall observation here, but if Erika doesn't possess the detective's authority this episode don't the seals become void? If someone were to recreate the signature, what right does Erika have to say it wasn't authentic with 100% accuracy?

>>5651917
Why do we need a villain?


Vandine, 12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

EP3 is universally loved because XD EPIC TROLL TWIST

>>5652009

First half was shit

Second half is awesome though, dat gorudosmitto.

Erika has to exist as a person because she pissed off everyone

>>5652011
No, they don't.

The seals are the seals. Perfect proofs,

>>5652011
Can we stop with the desperate reasoning in attempt to escape shkanontrice

>>5652060

I still believe Shkanontrice isn't the answer because of the cheese at beginning.

Shanontrice is a possibility though.

Ok, so this is a troublesome line. "Even hearing 'there are only 17 people on the island and here are the locations of 17 people' is insufficient."

Apparently, this has to do with the solution for Nanjo's murder in episode 3, but I can't figure it out, even if I do think of it in light of Shkannon.

Unless it's trying to tell me that there is an unknown murderer x, which it's not.

Or is there a Kanon that's already dead?


"

>>5651917
Because I think it's more fun that way. Umineko was amazing when Beato played the role of a villain. I just loved to see Beato and Battler's duels from EP2 until EP4. Sure, she was a good guy all along, but she did play the role of a bad guy, even if it was just a charade.

In EP5 and EP6, we got Bern and Erika. Since Beato was a good guy now, they were the ones that kept things moving. Up until EP5, Lamda had played some sort of Neutral Evil, but by EP6 she became officially just an observer, and maybe even an ally (probably on just a whim).

For EP7 we'll have Bern and Featherine as the bad guys, but in my opinion, Bern wasn't the most interesting villain in the game, since, again in my opinion, Erika was the one moving that part. Hopefully, Featherine will be more interesting than Bern.

As for the family, I'm hoping whoever is the culprit to receive some punishment. I still have that bitter taste after Higurashi, when Takano got away with all the brutal things she had done, just because she had a tragic past. Whoever the mastermind behind these events may be, I hope that, at the very least, he/she ends up in jail.

I must admit, Finished reading this yesterday, had decided that the episode was a big disappointment, and wanted to see people complain about it.

Read the thread and it reminded me of all the awesome stuff that happened. Can't stay mad...

Still, I seriously miss the days when the series was about the events happening on the gameboard. That was always the most interesting part, watching a full series of 18 murders, observing peoples reactions as their numbers dwindle, and speculating who did what and why. I was actually really excited when I realized that all the uncles survived, we never get to see them do anything.

Now we've got a third layer of Meta introduced (a story about people reading stories about people creating stories), and this is two games in a row where the game got suspended less than halfway through, with confusion in both cases on whether or not murders were ever actually meant to be carried out at all. (Course, Ep7 sounds promising in this regard)

Also Skannon...trice? Seriously? This is popular? I mean Skannon is a pretty cool and messed up twist to throw in, but I never really got a sense of malice coming from the characters. Think I'm sticking with Jessica.

>>5653391
Your reading comprehension, fucking do something about it.

>>5653414

Elaborate

Dear Shkannontricefriends. Are you sure it's Shkannon? Going by logic of personality switching, EP6 Battler's closed room could be solved with:
Hideyanon
Kumanon
Geoanon
Nannon

>>5653391
I think most people raged enough about it already, and decided just to move on and forget this shit. Some still have a faint hope of a better resolution. Come to think of it, it's our happiness that ep6 was translated so late and we had all this discussions. Now we have only a month left for ep7, that will either redeem it, or turn it to complete shit. In between we can enjoy trolls with their "reading comprehension" and other stuff.

>>5653512
Fair enough.

>>5653506
Dear idiot, are you sure you can read? Did you manage to forget 60-70% of the game that basically keep on focusing on confirming ShKanon in the most fucking obvious way?
That's why Ryukishi hates you.

>>5653545

Its funny when people throw this shit out, how do you know he was talking about ShKanon deniers and not your dumbass.

>>5653391
Although I don't like it, Shkanon has plenty of hints all over the place, and not just in EP6. I've re-stared playing from EP1, and the hints are so obvious they hurt.

As for Shkanontrice, I wouldn't know. I'm 95% positive about Shkanon, but I wouldn't bet on Shkanontrice myself.

About Jessica, I think she's the biggest moralfag in Umineko. She just seems to be one of the most reasonable people in the island.

Now, if she's suspicious, I'll put her along Hideyoshi, Rosa and Kyrie. But still, I don't see what motive Jessica would have to do this. She's graduating in less than a year. After that, she'll be free once she enters University.

>>5653573
Because you have 2 sort of people.
Idiots like you who only care about denying ShKanon and having a brick shitting resolution nobody will see coming without thinking about Umineko as a consistent work you can solve.
These are the idiots R07 talked about.

The whole deal with Hachijou, the whole deal with the logical error, it was there to tell you that Ryukishi will pull an answer that will be consistent with everything that was shown, it was there to tell you there won't be a LOLLAST MINUTE ITROLLU.
Oh, and for the ShKanon stuff, I know all these scenes pointed to it because I can fucking read, moron.

>>5653590
Fascinating how you keep assuming that you are on the right side. You seem, well, kind of frustrated.

As for me, I've read E6 with the thought that ShKanon is possible in mind and I still can't help how it seems to me that Battler is somehow trolling us. I'd give ShKanon 85% now, because of cheese thingy saying that you have to think about it hard to the end, because of all the strange shit concerning Asumu writing all of the stories, therefore knowing the truth to begin with, and also the unsolved matter about Shannon and Kanon being Lambda's pieces.

>>5653590

There are two kinds of people who read Umineko.

Those who believe in Shkanon and those who actually read mystery novels.

>>5653681
Too bad for you Ryukishi seems to belong in the first group.

>>5653686

If R07 actually read all the works he's referenced, it's impossible for Shkanon to be the answer.

You guys who keep denying ShKanon are funny.
You know what? Try to build a theory that can be as solid, solve the closed rooms, fits the narrative as well as this.
I don't mean just for the last closed room or whatever.

Till you do, you are just faggots who expect a I TROLL U without trying to think.

>>5653688
So here's to hoping for a miracle, and that he was just trolling us really hard and isn't actually that stupid.(I know, miracles don't exist.)

>>5653695
We can and have, but the problem is they are all too well thought out and make too much sense to be something that Ryu07 would do. So are thus ignored.

>>5653676
>all the strange shit concerning Asumu writing all of the stories, therefore knowing the truth to begin with
What I don't understand is, if she actually writes all this stories, then she must know all the answers, right? And yet when we read about logic error resolution she says that she doesn't know the answer. Wtf? Later she's even asking Bern to be a GM, so she will LEARN the answers. How does she write then? I think it's no so impossible that all this shit is trolling/misinterpretation from her side.

Erika being a crazy bitch able to do anything in order to win.
The shoot-offs, both, although the one between Beato and Erika is better.

As for BGMs, Life and Birth of New Witch so far. Still need to find names of the others.

>>5652474

Isn't it obvious that Erika is the culprit in all of them?

>>5653719
The joke is, Asumu/Hachijou gives Ange the script saying that she wrote it and just wants her to say what she thinks about it. Meanwhile in metaworld AuAu doesn't even know what she wrote herself.
That's the weirdest think about her -if Hajijou was really Asumu and Aurora was really Hanyuu(or her master), what exactly do those two have in common?

I still don't know way Battler married Beatrice. How can ShaKanon explain that?

My biggest problem is that it getting more of the worst of both the fantasy aspect and the mystery aspect. I don't like spending hours reading about how magic is just the belief in tricks and lies. FOR FUCKS SAKE, THAT'S SAYING THE FUCKING CAT WAS PUT INTO THE BOX ALREADY DEAD ASSHOLE! WE DON'T LIKE HEARING SHITTY EXPLANATIONS, LEAVE IT UP TO THE VIEWER TO FIGURE IT OUT! God, it's like episode 1 of Starwars all over again.

>>5653748
Man, does nekofags even read them or just CTRL through the game?
Erika is only the culprit in ep6 thanks to people playing dead.

Now for ep3 explanation, think back to the Eva-Kanon-Beato fight and their significances compare to ep6 Kanon-Beato magical Battler escape.
Unless you are dumber than a rock you will notice R07 shitty symbolism and cop out.

So how do you fags explain your shkannontrice got out of the 'next room over' without using window?
The use of the window argument has been prevented. Yet the tale continues, therefore it's not a logic error and there must be some other solution. And your favorite Hanyuu is sure that you absolutely can't get out of the 'next room over', where Shannon was.

>>5653856
So basically, two solutions to the closed room exist. One that uses the window and one that doesn't. Beato went with the one that did, since her solution obviously incorporated Shkanon.

So what was the unused one that didn't, that had the potential to kill Beato?

>>5653856
Oh god please learn to read.
Beato completely dodges this point because Kanon was the one that rescued Battler. Kanon was not part of the
[red]
'Everyone' else is in that other room
[/red]

You want to know why revealing this riddle will kill Beato? Because Beato does no exist and is a figment of someone else imagination and personality.

Stop treating others like monkeys when they didn't understand something.

You're not Ryukishi.

>>5653871
Yes, but by shkannotrice argument Kanon=Shannon and he 'was' in the 'next room over' in Shannon's body, or you can say that he doesn't existed, it doesn't matter - their common body was still in that room. And nobody can get out of this room.

>>5649699
But Erika didn't do it, after all she is the detective. She only "re-killed them all". Granted her saying that does force a bit of rewriting I'd imagine

>>5653871
The point is that by sealing the use of the windows, a solution other than the Shkanon one ultimately used by Beato must exist, otherwise Dlanor+Erika would have caused their own logic error.

So an alternate solution existed, but it was one that would have killed Beato.

>>5653907
She wasn't the detective this episode. And they were alive before she killed them.

>>5653907
Wat. They were alive didn't you read?

>>5653905
[red]
The neighboring room was certainly sealed, but at the time of the logic error, only the seal on the door was confirmed to be intact.
[/red]
>only the seal on the door was confirmed to be intact.
Nowonder R07 is pissed.

>>5653923
>Nowonder R07 is pissed.

He's just a faggot with superiority complex and post-trauma over his friend's death.

>>5653923
Read what Hanyuu says for god's sake: >>5653856 No wonder R07 is pissed.
The use of the 'window is open' argument was prevented, and if it was the only solution then at that moment the new logic error would have occurred. But it didn't, therefore there must be another solution.

So, why couldn't R07 make a male self-insert? Did he want to be a girl that much?

>>5653944
Who said Kanon escape through the other window?
Kanon escaped from the closed room with MAGIC.

>>5653944
Erika's last red prompts a weird reaction from Battler and Beato with Battler asking if she's "sure", so that makes me think it might have something to do with it. Erika's last red is pretty much "Erika doesn't exist", which, along with Shkanon, opens up a space for person X.

The problem is that "everyone else" was confirmed to be in the cousins' room, also a perfect sealed room. Well, "everyone else besides Kinzo", I guess.

KINZOTRICE AHOY

And why should it be "impossible" because Erika doesn't "exist"?
Seriously, read ep5 again. Erika just looks like a giant patchwork, when you think about it.
Anyway the end of ep6 is clear enough.

Also Shkannon assume that Kanon don't exist when it is "inactive" and that's why it "should" work. But personally Kanon's last sentence (he will always be with Jessica, even if he will not be able to talk to her, all of that) makes me think otherwise. Well, this and a lot of things.


I suppose that we really can't have a break from Erika and Shkannon.

Well. My favorite part was probably the part after the duel, because of almost every bgm in it.

Favorite bgm, liberatedliberater, Tsumi, or battlefield. Hard to choose.

So...
R07 = Featherine
Anonymous = Ange

>>5653979
Exactly.
Seeng Juuza more interrested than Ange really made me laugh.

>>5653969
wait was the "kinzo is the person, not the name" bullshit eliminated for all games? after all the text was
>Since [Kinzo]'s confirmed not to exist, please exclude him.[red]I acknowledge that all other people are in the cousins' room.[/red]

>>5653963
shht, if you use their argument back you'll anger them

>>5653982
Fuck, I don't want to be Ange.

Hell, I even hate burgers.

>>5653969
If this happens I swear I will take back everything bad I ever said and worship Ryukishi

>>5653990
Battler's blue text about Kinzo in ep4 have never been denied, as far as I remember.

>>5653993
>I don't want to be Ange.
I don't mind.
It's almost as close as being the little girl.

>>5653991
No seriously, at first I thought R07 insults were out of place but after seeing the bullshit that people come out with after his confessions I can see why he is so frustrated with his readers.

>>5653963
Confirmed for troll or idiot. And these people call others retards with no reading comprehension.
All 'magic' must have some real world base behind it.

>>5653990
I don't think so, but I'm not really sure.

>>5654005
>>5654002
Wow. And you fell for it.

>>5654012
TROLLED HARD XD

>>5653990
Even if he is part of the everyone else, we can't put it past him to be hiding.

>>5654019
under the carpet?

>>5653998
No way man, she's got huge tits and damn fine legs.

Personally, I'd like to be 34. I'm just in for the story. I don't care about the mystery. Well, I care for the mystery when it affects certain outcomes, like the result of the story.

Anyway, has anyone tried solving the epitaph? The Taiwan theory, as solid as it may sound, for some reason just doesn't seem likely to me. It's just an unreasonable hunch, with no real basis to it. I just don't believe that's the key.

>>5654018
No, seriously, I'm not >>5653963 and I say he was obviously joking. Take it easy.

>>5654012
but episode 6 is a confession
of love

>>5654027
The confession was Fuck you stupid readers

>>5654026
in fact, he was using exactly the same argument as most of the people in every umineko thread.

aren't the "erika never existed" theories debunked every time she is mentioned doing an action in red? especially the end text?

>>5654032
I guess they are trolls then. Nobody would be stupid enough to believe it was actually magic. Right? ;_;

>>5653963 here. I was obviously being sarcastic and sadly none of you even got it except a few of you.
This is the same fucking argument that Beato used and Erika was too stupid to solve it.
I don't blame Erika since even I think that the solution that R07 gave was ridiculous.

>>5653979

No, /jp/ is that mass of people throwing stupid theories that are mentioned at the beginning and then forgotten about.

Ange is Witch-Hunt.

>>5654042
No, usually it is used as " LOOK RYUKISHI SAID CONFESSION SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEARCH ANYHTING SHKANNON IS TRUE AND UMINEKO IS OVER".

>>5654068
You people are so proud of your non-existent reading comprehension

It's just frustrating when idiots think they have the right to argue back and imply the people trying to teach their thick skulls are the idiotic ones

Know your place

>>5653990
Holy shit, I completely forgot about that, and somehow I remember hearing 'Kanon is the new Kinzo' after E4, even.
It's a passable solution, I guess.

>>5653969
>Erika's last red is pretty much "Erika doesn't exist", which, along with Shkanon, opens up a space for person X.
How so?
Did I really miss anything?

From the beginning we were led to believe that there were 18 people on the island, though it turned outthat Kinzo was never their, and the number dropped to 17.
If Shanon and Kanon happens to be the same person, then the number drops again to 16.

"[red]Even if you do join us, there are 17 people[/red]"

Wasn't the whole deal with her self introduction that in the games she had been there no one ever took her number into account when comparing the total.
I may just remember wrong but I believe she wanted to break the max amount of people barrier by adding herself.

>>5654093
.. you are really retarded.
non-existent reading comprehension?
I think that you are the one who lacks reading comprehension here.
Or maybe Featherine and Ryukishi are not clear enough. well.

Anyway, if you think that people disagree Shkannon because they have a "non-existent reading comprehension", go hang yourself. It just shows that you are feeling superior when you are the one who don't understand anything here.

Hell, someone here who think that anyone really needs "reading comprehension" to understand Shkannon, what the hell.

Look, if a personality can be counted as a person, so ShKannon theory created a problem.
Battler says for Erika:
"Even if we welcome you there are still 17 people."
In another words:
-Shannon and Kanon are considered separate person even if they divide the same body. And Erika doesn't exists.
What Battler says can be true if Erika isn't counted as a person. What is impossible in a logic way.
OR
-Shannon and Kanon are considered one person. But this enters in conflict with red texts that we already discussed.

The only way for the ShKanon theory works in Umineko is if Shannon and Kanon are considered separete person even if they divide the same body. But this means that Erika doesn't exist in the EP6. But this is impossible, since even Battler saw Erika.

>>5651903
>Regardless of if Erika is welcomed or not, the number stays static. 17 with her, 17 without her.
If that is the case, then nothing would have changed

and Battler wouldn't have ask Beato "Are you sure?" like they are about to reveal a big mystery

>>5654107
Erika only gets up for that last confrontation because she says "I'm no longer anyone's piece. I can control my own role. I can finally accept the real truth about myself." That's what she's motivated by and that's what Battler and Beato understand (it's basically said they know what she wants and are honoring that.) Erika then says that here, at the end, she finally wants to introduce herself - ie, confirm the state of her own existence.

The last exchange of red with "seventeen people" is about Erika. Battler and Beato's red nullifies her existence. She doesn't exist.

Minna-san baka gaijins.
>Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!
She is the 18th human on Rokkenjima but at one point in time there can be only 17people on the island which is confirmed in the next line.

>We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen.

>>5654115
>and Battler wouldn't have ask Beato "Are you sure?" like they are about to reveal a big mystery

If Erika doesn't exist, that, along with Shkanon, opens up Person X. That's pretty big.

>>5654115
Wait a minute...what if Erika is, in fact, one of the 17 persons?

>>5654112
Like I said, know your place

You are an idiot, do not try to pretend you are anything but that, do not try to imply others above you are idiots when you cannot even understand a visual novel

>>5654107
Also "There are 5 people in this room, 6 people are in their own respecitve rooms. And right now everyone else is in this room I am pointing at, standing in the corridor."

The funniest part of ep6 is Personnality/beato not counting in the number of people just because she doesn't have an identity card.

>>5654114
2 personalities
2 persons
1 "people"
1 human

Otherwise couldn't they just have scratched that and "retconned" it with the red?
Wasn't that kind of what they did to Kinzo?

>>5654123
"I can finally... accept the real truth about myself..."
"I'm the eighteenth visitor."
"Nah, you're the seventeenth."

ERIKA WA SHOCK

I don't think so.

>>5654112
You might need to take it easy and reread the visual novel again.
I don't know how obvious you want R07 to spell it out for you? Are the kind of people that don't think anything is real until it is stated in red?

>>5654125
That wasn't said in red was it?

>>5654130
Because witches doesnt exist.
The best part about magic is they only exist if people believe them and there isnt any anti magic toxin around.
And sir this is what R07 has been hammering into all his readers brain for the past 3episodes.

>>5654124
Can you go away? Take your THEORY and shows for someone who is intelligent like you, that can understand.

>>5654124
Retards like you are actually polluting this thread.
there is nothing more annoying than the " I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, NOW STFU EVERYONE" kind of people.
Well, if you find this funny, please continue to believe that you are a superior being who know everything when you are actually a retard. It is truly entertaining.
This is why Ryukishi is trolling his readers.

>>5654144
It was acknowledged by Battler in red, though he was like "Everyone? Well, I don't think so, but if you care... I guess you won't be able to pull off anything using this."

>>5654122
Problem is nobody really knows what those last few lines are supposed to mean (fuck you ryukishi)

>>5654134
What i'm saying is:
Erika=somebody from the 17? Like Jessica, Natsuhi, or even Shannon?

>>5654123
EP6 pretty much confirms Shkanon 99%
However, if Erika doesn't exist, Shkanon 99% would instantly becomes 0%

>>5654154
It's pretty fucking obvious from the context, bro.

>>5653856
You're missing the most important parts.
1. Featherine can't even solve it at first.
2. Featherine says it's likely impossible to solve.

What's forbidden is blue truth using the windows. It's not forbidden for Beato to tell her answer to Lambda in what would be red, not blue. The move was stealing the initiative and making it look like she didn't use the windows by using someone who wasn't even in the window room (Kanon), forcing Erika to take the blue seal off the window herself.

That's why the risky move, part of Beato's heart, Shkanontrice is able to solve this room. Also, this move has never actually been played before. There isn't another room that requires Shkanontrice.

I believe it is literally impossible to solve if you must use the blue truth on the windows to solve it. Beato never tried to use that blue truth however.

>>5654158
Oh. It's possible, I guess.

Episode full of ShKanon hints. People on /jp/ still denying ShKanon.
>This is why R07 is trolling his readers, because of stupid people like you who stop thinking and just accept LOL DID MEIDO
>This is why R07 is trolling his readers, because of stupid people like you who lack the reading comprehension to reach a conclusion without it being told to you directly

>>5654165
No, you're not getting the full context. Featherine says that as long as that restriction on the window of the room is in place, it is as good as perfect closed room. "It is impossible to get out of that sealed room", not "it is impossible to solve."

Featherine says she knows an alternate solution, but it's one that would kill Beatrice. Beatrice's solution implicitly uses the window because she uses Shkanon. (which, by the way, Battler approaches not as Beato taking some huge risk with her heart, but as "dohohoho, sneaky trick, Beato!") The solution Featherine was originally thinking of was never revealed.

Not counting Erika, there are 17 people.
Her saying that she is the 18th one in red gratly implies that she herself believs that she counts as 1.

However Beato and Battler said in red that even if they added Erika there would still be 17 people on the island.

Now if we become all nitpicky over this it, then the reds actually contradicts eachother as one first says "there are 18 people!" and the other "No there are 17!", while both are screaming that they are the truth.

But this is basically the nature of the red and the rules of the gameboard.
I simply believe as was written in >>5654107 that Erika simply wanted to break the people barrier in order to have one that could have easily carried out all the murders, it's the same reason as to why Battler so wanted an extra person X in the previous games.
Having that extra person is almost an auto win for the human side.

And then Beato and Battler says that even so there would still be 17 people.
And the line were battler asks Beato if she's sure also implies that it doesn't have anything to do with Erika and moreso with the nature of Beatrice.

It's also most likely the move that Ronove and Virgilia and the others claimed was the move that could have worked, even though it could never be used again if it was used.
The part that says that it can never be used again is most likely that Beato was 2 people or something, and that by admitting that she was only 1 they can't bring back the other.

>>5654146
The problem is that this Beatrice/beato is not supposed to be a real witch but a personnality, so this don't work. It works for Beatrice/the elder, but Beatrice/Beato is quite different.
The main thing here is the " they are considered as real if many people acknowledge that they are", but here it could create a contradiction somewhere. And moreover Beatrice is supposed to be exactly the same as the two other, only created for another person.

>>5654164
Please explain it then because from these last lines I'm seeing either
"The number of people doesn't change whether or not Erika is introduced, so Erika doesn't exist and is one of the 17 people (person X is opened up)" or "If Erika comes the number is still 17 because although she is a real person Shkanon takes it down a number"

>>5654115
the "even if" is of the concessive form. As in "we welcome you, but a slight correction needs to be made concerning your statement"

>>5654179
Do you want him to say "do ho ho ho, you just used a trick that exposes your heart were you watching bern?"Likely Beatrice's heart and the dirty trick that humans will complain about is the same thing. Shkanontrice.

Featherine flat out says there's probably no answer for the closed room.

>>5654191
When Featherine says "there is no answer for the closed room", she's talking about "the next room over", the one George, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Hideyoshi, and Shannon are in. With the seal on the window, there is no way to get out of it.

She says flat out, however, that there still IS a solution for Battler's closed room.

>>5654187
This is the entire reason the last duel even took place. You should be able to solve this, etc etc.

>>5654197
>since no answers exists, then defeat is absolutely certain for whichever player is burdened with the responsibility of explaining.
>So we have no moves left...?!
It's important to note that defeat is absolutely certain for whichever player is burdened with the responsibility of explaining. Ange thinks that's Battler no matter what, but Beato manages to steal the initiative and have Erika explain it. It would be certain defeat for Erika, but since she placed the restriction, she just removes it.

The move that was required to properly steal the initiative, to make it look like the windows aren't being used, was Shkanontrice.

I don't even care about the truth anymore.
Erika must be someone from the 17. Maybe ErShKanon?

Erika says she is the "18th human" which might be a bad translation, looking at the original she uses ningen which could be meaning "character" just looking at my dictionary.

I wonder if Kuwadorian is going to actually come into play later on. It seems more like just a justification of the backstory more than a useful plot element at the moment

>>5654211
"18th character"

That... makes sense, what with the whole fiction aspect and all.

>>5654177
So is Ryukishi confirmed for troll of the decade yet?

Whatever the solution is he trolled us into accusing each other of being stupid.

>>5654210
If she is one of the 17, the most likely possibilities are Genji and Jessica, at least for Episode 6.

>>5654218
>the only possibilities are Jessica and Genji
fixt

That's why the nekofags are the most retarded fandom ever.

Erika doesn't exist can't fucking work, retards.
She add one to the headcount, in fucking red, you can't go around it.

>>5654208
>since no answers exists, then defeat is absolutely certain for whichever player is burdened with the responsibility of explaining.

"the responsibility of explaining [how one of the five from that room came to Battler's rescue]". That's what's impossible and means defeat for anyone who tries to go down that route. Look at the context. What Featherine is saying "It might mean that it's possible to explain how someone in that room did it... no, it's impossible. There's no answer on that front. There's no answer for the closed room on the room with those five."

>>5654165
At any given moment of the game there must exist some 'human truth', i.e. the truth detective can use to explain something and that would be blue, for any magic trick displayed. If it doesn't, then it becomes a logic error. If it is the single truth, then at the moment Dlanor sealed the use of blue truth for the window, it would immediately become another logic error. Therefore, there must be another truth completely unrelated to the window of that room.

>>5654231

All the red specifies is that after Erika's arrival, the headcount is one greater. It doesn't specify it's _because_ of Erika.

yes, it's a stretch, but no more than the "personalities can die" trollshit.

>>5654232
No, otherwise it wouldn't be utter defeat for the one explaining.

>>5654231
A girl named Furudo Erika would add one to the headcount, if she existed.

She doesn't.

If I have a basket of fruit, I can state "an apple adds to the number of fruit by one" without actually having an apple there. I'd just be talking about what a theoretical apple would do.

>>5654184
No sir.
You do not understand the nature of magic.
Magic is only possible if enough people believe about it. The reason why Shannon/Kanon are considered 2entity is because the whole fucking island think they are 2person. None of them believe Beatrice exists except Maria and guess why Beatrice get resurrected at the end of the game? Because everyone got murder and she is last one(lol personality) standing.

>>5654239
Utter defeat in terms of explaining how one of those five could have gotten out of the room. All of their conversation building to that point revolves around the apparent paradox of "getting out of the next room over."

Featherine is linking "no answer" to that statement of "defeat", and when she says "no answer", she's referring to that specific closed room, not Battler's.

>>5654244
Except it's not stated this way, learn to read.

# Furudo Erika had no influence on any of Beato's games before now.
# She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
# Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.
# Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
# In other words, the number of people in this parlor now is equal to the total number of people on this island.

It's not "may" increase or whatever, Erika INCREASES the number of people on the island, in red.
Fuck, I don't even know why I'm arguing about it, just try to think, what was the point of Erika's presence if she didn't exist in episode 5 and 6?

And if she didn't, how could someone on the island get her as title/new name/whatever just for episode 5 and 6 considering that Erika DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE EPISODE 5?
Tell me what changed in these episodes that one person on the island immediately got a new name.

>>5654244
She exist genius.
16+Erika = 17.
18th human on the Island != 18 people people on the island NOW

>>5654244
Let me just get this straight.

There are 17 people + Erika.
Erika claims in RED that she is the 18th person.
Now if she have said this in red, doesn't it count?

Then Beato and Battler claimed that even if she was added there would only be 17 people.

I don't see why Beato's and Battler's red could deny Erika's red and not simply lower the number by not counting someone else, such as Kanon for an example.
Erika did explain that she counts in red.

>>5654262
What do you mean by there are 17 people NOW?

Did someone leave the island? If so how?

>>5654262
16+Kinzo = 17

>>5654264
So if there only were 16 then adding ehr would add up to 17.
There's no problem and I don't see why Erika wouldn't count, she said that she did in Red, and Beato and Battler said that they took her number into consideration, in red.

>>5654267
16th Shannon
17th Kanon
They are 2human in 1body.
However only 1 of them can exist at one point of time.
It is probably a mistranslation. Why would Erika use human while the Beato/Battler combo use people?

>>5654271
But Kinzo doesn't exist, why should he?
He has already been denied in many ways, has he not?

>>5654231
Another personnality of someone, just like Shkannon.
It can explain this WHOLE red. But every time it is said, you guys are just saying
"lul no impossible" and that's all, so I will not even try.

>>5654264
She says she is the 18th ningen
人間 - common noun
1. human being; man; person
2. character (of a person)

>>5654271
Except that it was never stated that Kinzo increased the number of people or whatever.
We only had the number of people =< 18, then number of people =< 17 when Kinzo's death was revealed.

WIth Erika we have (number of people =< 17)+1
That's all
It's fucking simple.

>>5654259
I say that's just your interpretation. Rather than what was implied earlier, that there must be another explanation that wasn't used, it's possible the explanation Featherine thought of was the one used.

Shkanontrice is already a pretty big part of Beato's heart. I wonder what could possibly be the trick otherwise, and this would have to be a trick that has never has needed use before. Featherine usually has everything right, so her only coming to one harsh conclusion when a possible second one exists seems unlikely.

just a second...
Erika killed five people in EP6 however she wasn't presented in EP1....

Knox's 1st. It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the STORY!

Erika cannot be the culprit...

>>5654264
the character she use in japanese is NOT the same as the one used by B&B.

>>5654260
"A glass of water quenches thirst."

That statement is true and valid without my having to have an actual glass of water on hand.

Erika's presence is to push forward themes and the story on the meta-level, and trigger further meta-clues like the Knox Rules. Just like Ryukishi said he would be focusing on in Chiru.

>>5654292
And that's why the whole theory about " Erika being a cloak for the murderer" was created.

>>5654297
Your logic completely and utterly fail, what are you, 12?

>>5649340 (first)
USHIROMIYA KYRIE CANNOT SAVE BATTLER

Usan no Kaori
>>5651903 (erika 17)
Even If= If Statement, therefore (take T to be True and F to be False (is this case, reflecting Erika's presence in the proposition, 17 people in the conclusion)
T -> T (Erika is there, and there are 17 people)
T -> F (Erika is there, and there are not 17 people)
F -> T (Erika is not there, and there are 17 people)
F -> F (Erika is not there, and there are not 17 people)
In this set up, only the 2nd statement (Erika is there, and there are not 17 people) is false, which would result in a logic error unless someone is removed or sharing bodies. Using this solution, one can say that the chapters that Erika is not included in are absolutely not affected by Erika. However, if Erika is in a chapter (EP 5/6), then their must be either 17 people, including her, or an error in logic. I think I'm just being redundant, but I figured showing the work wouldn't hurt future arguments.
>>5653695 (non-skannon theory)
Shannon/Genji/Partial Kannon, with Shannon/Kinzo duel mastermind. It explains all except 4, but I didn't actually check if it worked in 4, mainly because it was just fantasy wad.

>>5654292
Duh of course she is not the culprit.
She wasn't the mastermind behind people roleplaying as dead people. hiding dead people and walking around lying about their own gender and two timing their lover.

>>5654292
She can. Because she wasn't the detective in EP6.
And she can be also one of the 17 persons in the island.

>>5654301
I'm not approving what he says right now, but this reaction is EXACTLY the reaction of every Shkannonfags when someone find something that disturbs their theory.
As if Shkannon"s logic was not a fail.

>>5654300
sorry, I just noticed now... Well this sure is nice, the last red could also refer to this.

>>5654312
Have you even read what this anon said...?

>>5654290
She says that it can never be used again, not that it wasn't used before. And shkannon trick is impossible at the moment of their conversation.

>>5654290
Well, I think it's pretty clear if you actually look at the flow of the conversation. Ange and Feather basically say, "Since the game didn't collapse in another logic error after this seal which completely shuts down the next room over, either there's a solution that doesn't use that room and the windows at all, or there's an unknown way to get out." They then talk about the possibility of "an unknown way to get out" and conclude "no answer, impossible, it's defeat if you try."

Implicitly, then? It's the other possibility they brought up: there's another answer that doesn't involve that room and the windows at all.

>>5654314
No problem. Well, in any case, it is more interresting than blindly accept something.

>>5654292
That rule would usually only apply to one-part mystery novels. How many mystery series are there that endlessly repeat with different solutions?

The culprit in episode 6 needs to be introduced early in episode 6. Erika was introduced in 5.

>>5654322
I disagree with their reasoning about the logic error, though. That doesn't remain consistent with what we've seen about logic errors. Logic errors can exist without the gameboard falling apart, as long as they are never exposed. Otherwise, Erika wouldn't need to check the logic, since she would be able to view that the logic is broken easily.

>>5654327
No.
Ryukishi changed some Knox so they will work in Umineko. A lot of them, in fact. But this one is umineko's version.

>>5654327
But she can be the culprit if she is one of the 17.

>>5654333
Well, uh, if you just want to say "Featherine is wrong", I guess you can.

If it matters to anyone looking at the japanese version Battler and Beatrice don't say "there are 17 people" they just say
そなたを迎えても、7人だ

>>5654333
Battler can turn himself to Ange and go out through the bathtub.
It isnt a 100% logic error.

>>5654334
That doesn't necessarily mean that the culprit for every episode must be from episode 1.

Knox rules have their foundation in fairness. The reason that rule exists is because otherwise, a writer may include a culprit that nobody has heard of near the end and pin everything on them. The reader never had a fair chance to deduce that this person was the culprit, they were only shown them late in the game.

That doesn't apply in episode 6 where we meet Erika before the murders occur. We even met her the episode before they occurred. What it does mean is that Erika can't be the culprit for 1-4.

>>5654312
I still think this point has a meaning.

After all Erika's last red is her presentation and the same concept is used in Knox's 1st.

Not saying this will change anything but I'm still going to think about it.

And yeah, that was meant to be 17

>>5654338
We're both saying Featherine is wrong in some way. Aren't you saying Featherine only thought of one very rash answer, when Beato came up with one that was just a silly trick?

We know how the logic error works from earlier on in the episode. The gameboard just doesn't suddenly fall apart if one exists.

>>5654339
So what they actually say is "It's 17 people"

>>5654354
Featherine wasn't wrong. When the windows were sealed, there was only the one rash answer she mentioned.

>>5654362
人間 != 人だ

>>5654375
人 is person. 人間 is more like human being.

>>5654348
Except that you don't have many REAL "new characters" in umineko, Rokkenjima being a closed area. So this Knox would really be out of place here. If this rule was really useless, then Ryukishi would have kick it out, like Knox 5.
And moreover, Chiru is supposed to help us finding the culprit, so it have to have a link here. It cannot be a random murder.

>>5654373
So you mean another trick appears when the windows are unsealed, and this is what Beato uses?

It seems to add one too many steps, to me. If that trick exists, then Beato should simply be able to steal the initiative and have Erika remove the seals, then use that trick. After all, as I said, the sealing was of the blue truth. While Ange definitely interprets it as a logic error, and Featherine seems to go along with her, as long as the blue truth isn't used, it should be fine.

I also don't think the trick Beatrice used was so lighthearted. I don't see the trick she used being anything but Shkanontrice, and this is certainly part of her heart, and also certainly something humans would complain about.

Regarding Beatrice, is she really just a figment of someone's imagination or a personality?

Personally, after reading EP6 and rereading the past episodes I get the feeling that Beatrice is the resulting personality a particular person ended up with after 6 years.

If I were to put an example from other series, we could have Yagami Light and Kira. Light was a kind-hearted guy with a serious code of justice, and there's Kira who's a megalomaniac. Light became Kira after obtaining a power such as the Death Note. Another example could be Shirou and Archer. Shirou is a... broken guy indeed, but he does have his ideals (or pretends to) and he's a really nice guy in general, whereas Archer is a very bitter person. Archer is Shirou after leading a particular way of life.

So, Beatrice could easily be a real person, who ended up with that type of personality after particular circumstances throughout 6 years.

Naturally, Beatrice as the witch doesn't exist. In fact, there's probably no person in Rokkenjima who has Beatrice as her name (or, at least, not in legal books). Yet, this person developed a personality which is the same as the Beatrice we got to know.

>>5654468
I only joined in the theorying this episode so I might be wrong but Beatrice was the personality from when Shkanon fell for Battler and had her heart broken in the 6 years he never came to Rokkenjima + the legends mixed in

>>5654487
I always thought the same thing but with Jessica

>>5654487
Yeah, but my theory isn't following any form of DID, but a regular change in personality any normal person faces through time, circumstances, and own will.

>>5654504 here

same as >>5654507

>>5654504
I don't think it's Jessica. From the impression I got, this girl didn't match any of Battler's "criteria". Battler said he would like a girl a personality similar to Jessica, and Jessica has been a tomboy since Battler remembers her.

So, I think the best bet would be Shannon or someone else.

All the same, who knows, there could always be some twist.

>>5654504
The reason I think she is Shkanon is because after the duel she disappeared along with Kanon.
I guess the original meta witch was the combination of both the legends and the personality which got muddled into one by the witch hunters after the game ended.

>>5654521
In my opinion she still doesn't feel like she can live up to Battler's standards. She always has complexes about the way she talks for example so Beato (when not cackling) speaks in a refined manned (uses a complex term for "I" if I remember correctly)

Still what we see in the game may be the result of her changes in order to live up to Battler expectations.

It's just my opinion though.

>>5654552
Hmmm... hard to say. Battler explicitly said "a personality like Jessica's", he didn't give any further details. So, I do not see what would she want to change about her own personality.

Naturally, Jessica didn't match the other criteria. However, I got the impression, this girl Battler was talking to didn't meet any of them. Jessica, being Jessica, does meet the "having a personality like Jessica's.

Well, you could be correct, for all I know. But I think Shannon makes far more sense, taking into account the whole scene,

>>5654579
Yeah that was something that surprised me so I started thinking about Shannon but then I remembered that in japanese you can refer to the person you are talking to by using his/her name so it wouldn't be that strange for him to be talking to Jessica.

We'll probably have to admit that our opinions don't contradict each other so can be valid at the same time. This is how Umineko works anyway, isn't it?

I seriously hope that the person who created this personnality was a man. It would be funny, turn Umineko into a homolust novel, and a very few people would be retarded enough to think about this.

>>5654404
>So you mean another trick appears when the windows are unsealed, and this is what Beato uses?
Why do you think that the trick Beatrice used was shkannontrice and not that 'trick X', that don't require using the next room over window at all?

>>5655150
I am more with this theory >>5654179
Any ideas why it wouldn't hold it's ground?

>>5655240
I think that if Beato was going to use shkannon and window as a solution then she must have been sure that the window will be unsealed by Dlanor, i.e. her explanation must include that as a premise. Maybe it'd be ok, but maybe Lambda as a witch of Certainty wouldn't accept such assumption.
Someone said earlier that Beato could have used not blue, but red/green/pink/etc instead to state her theory to Lambda. It seems stupid, but who knows, it's not like it's not stupid already.

>>5655354
I believe she was just certain of the fact that if she presented her problem (closed room) to Erika the way she did then Erika would lift the restriction herself.
I believe it was all a part of her plan.

Fucken theory fags ruined the thread...