/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Because official doujin

Also, touhou power levels are dumb, don't waste your time thinking about them.

In an universe full of unspecified, ambiguous and unfair powers and elder beings of magic they fit right in.

>>5554808
>an universe

>single-handedly defeated four of Gensokyo's finest
>implying anyone ever acknowledged they were the finest in a land where each game reveals powers more broken than the last

>>5554827
Upcoming powerlevel shitstorm.
I'm out.

oh no characters with powers

god this just stabs me right in the heart

Okuu forevar.

Because no other touhou can throw the Sun at you.

Yukari doesn't count...

>>5554835
my point was precisely that powerlevel discussion is retarded, I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Moonbitches were created for the sole purpose of telling the powerlevel fags to kindly fuck off.

No, [insert your favourite Touhou here] isn't the strongest unless she's Cirno, stop wanking to her awesome magical skills. Touhou was never about who's the strongest in the first place.

If you don't want a bitch to humiliate you with her god sword then don't invade the fuckin moon. It's that simple.

>>5554858
yukari wont throw the sun at you, she will rather throw you into the sun

>>5554796
It's even a manga, not just a doujinshi.
>>5554777
>single-handedly
I think she used both hands
>defeated
Sakuya didn't even try,
Marisa lost, she's ordinary,
Remilia lost because of Yorihime's strategy,
Reimu-Yorihime was a draw
>having just been introduced to spellcards
That actually helped her
>Combined powers of Flandre and Yukari
She doesn't have Flandre's and only a small part of Yukari's.

>>5554858
Suika can create suns and throw them at you.
She can also create black (and white) holes.

Power levels don't affect danmaku that much. Everyone can win.

>Combined powers of Flandre and Yukari
Wait what? didn't she just have a fan that would purify a longass area surrounding her?

>>5554901
Moon sucks anyway.
-Unyu

>>5554910
Yorihime just bombed through everything, anyway. That is a totally legit way to play Touhou.

>>5554947
She's in main character state and Reimu co. is in boss state.

mary sues, mary sues everywhere.

>>5554910
Couldn't have said it better myself. Reimu said she would have won with ease had she been fighting a more youkai like youkai. She probably holds back when fighting non-youkai foes. Also:
>Supreme Master-Arts by any means. With Reimu's ability to float, she floats from everything in reality and becomes invincible.

>If it wasn't just for play (with time limit), no one could beat her with any method.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Last_Word_Spell_Cards#Spell_Card_215

>>5554777
I was really disappointed with ZUN after reading SSiB. I still cant believe he was willing to throw Marisa under the bus in order to make her fulfill the cliche role of useless side character. It just goes to show if ZUN was a mangaka at (say) Shonen Jump, he'd be just as shitty as their current roster mangakas. And don't even get me started with the fanfiction.net tier moonbitches. What was he thinking.

Marisa in SSiB: Before the duel even began she said the most beautiful one always wins. She then lost, which implies she's an ugly side-character. Everyone there was pretty nonchalant, but the only thing that was going through Marisa's mind was "oh crap, there's no way we'll win. How do I escape!" She's also the one who proposed to do a spellcard duel despite the fact that the moonbitch made it clear (several times) that she was not going to go along with their shenanigans.

Challenging the moonbitch to a spellcard duel is the same thing as challenging someone to a game of chess who has several thousand pawns (and is not ashamed to break the rules by using them). Unlike Sakuya and Remilia who fought until they were exhausted, Marisa tried a few of her attacks and called it quits.

And did I mention the fact that she disgraced the masterspark--the double masterspark? For an entire decade the masterspark had a cult following amongst Touhou fans. An ENTIRE decade of danmaku tradition & culture only for it to be disgraced in one manga panel by a cowardly magician

I didn't really see anything wrong with Marisa in SSiB. I interpreted that scene as Marisa getting a wake up call that she needs to cut the shit,buckle down and get better because her bullshit isn't gonna work on everyone.

I'm a Marisa fan

>>5555180
>>5555180
Something's wrong with this picture

why isn't young Marisa a redhead wearing purple?

>>5555097
>>5555120
Get over it already.

This is why I'd love to be a normal human in Gensokyo.

To tell all these broken old hags no one gives a fuck about their Godlike powers.

>>5555120
>she said the most beautiful one always wins

What kind of logic is that?

>>5555216

Because PC-98 isn't canon

You guys should try playing the games instead of wanking off to characters. They've got easy modes and everything, you'll do fine, honest.

>>5555263

Peacock logic. If an animal can afford to spend time and effort on beauty and display, it demonstrates that it is strong enough for wilderness survival.

However civilization has long rendered this sort of thinking obsolete, so the point is moot.

Kisume is building a spacebucket, one day she will go to the moon and defeat them.

>>5555302
LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT A MASTER HERE

>>5555302
>STOP DISCUSSING THE CHARACTERS IN THE OFFICIAL WORKS GUYS!

No.

>>5555302
But the point of playing the games is to have a solid foundation upon which to wank off to the characters.

Suika is strong but she's no superman. When they say Onis are the strongest that just means they have big arms and are capable of lifting heavy objects. On a good day, both Aya and Remilia could defeat an Oni in a fist fight. Let me elaborate. In PMiSS it said the Tengus:
>On an individual basis, they have very strong physical and sorcerous abilities that compare favorably to any youkai in Gensokyo.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Tengu

And it also said:
>In particular, they can fly extremely fast, and there are few, if any, who can match their speed (*1).
>1: Probably only a vampire could.
If Onis had the overall perfect bodies like many people claim they do, they would have more speed and agility than the Tengu and Vampires. Note how I said Onis and not Suika. Suika is just a freak of nature and doesn't properly represent Onis. I leave you with one last thing:
>Faster than the eye can follow, strong enough to crush boulders, powerful enough to manipulate demons, she's so strong it's almost not fair
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Remilia_Scarlet

>>5555448

>big arms

>>5555448
Akyu personally admits to bullshitting, PMiSS is irrelevant.

>>5555448
>>Faster than the eye can follow, strong enough to crush boulders, powerful enough to manipulate demons, she's so strong it's almost not fair

I can already picture Remi sitting next to Akyu and bragging. Akyu writing all of it down of course.

Of course, both were taught by Eirin.

Not a single one of the characters Yorihime defeated had any motivation to fight, and usually the touhou difficulty levels are determined by motivation rather than actual power levels (at least in my opinion from stage levels). Normal the stage 1-3 bosses are just playing around or trying to discourage you in order to help you.

So Yorihime fought, in order, stage 1 sakuya, stage 2 marisa, stage 3 Remilia, and stage 4 Reimu. Even I can usually get past stage 4.

In my own opinion....

ZUN is too unreliable to take anything he writes as canon/fact. He regularly goes back on his on word a few times.

>>5555448
I guess an answer to the question a few days ago of: "who would win in a fist fight (with no magic)" would be:
1. Suika
2. Yuugi
3. Remilia
4. Flandre
5. Aya
6. Yuuka

Isn't it sad flower youkai?

>>5555492
She's a freak of nature. See:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yuugi_Hoshiguma

>>5555590
Yuugi, just like Suika.

>>5555521
That's a line from one of the manuals, not PMiSS.

>>5555590
how the hell would remilia and flandre win?

>>5555590
>Yuka at the bottom

I wanna see the reasoning behind this.

>Sakuya managed to sneak behind Yorihime she could have killed her!
Yorihime ate peaches of immortality. Sakuya cant stab her. See Tenshis scenario for how useless Sakuyas blades are against peaches defense.

>Sakuya gave up way to fast
She was surrounded by flames hotter then anything on earth. No gaps to grace this.

>>5555590
what part of "no one would win" did you not get?
imagine fighting on an RPG against an enemy that uses Maximum healing every time you hit it with a physical attack (you without being able to use magic) and using a character that does the same
that's what a fist fights between youkai is like

Eirin > Toyohime > Yorihime > Kaguya > Sikieiki > Suika = Yuugi > Yukari > Yuyuko

The moonbitch are small time, Suika blow up Gensokyo's barrier, Heaven and then the moon with one fucking punch and all that in front of a crowd. She then use her gathering power to repair everything like nothing happen and the moonbitchs (and the residents of Heaven) didn't even get mad. (problably too scared of the little Oni eh!)

>In particular, they can fly extremely fast, and there are few, if any, who can match their speed (*1).

Kaguya can act in fentoseconds. Aya is a slowpoke.

>>5555888
She destroyed the reflection of the moon. Moonpeople did not notice that stunt.

>>5555841
Yuugi could punch out every single person on that list incl. herself

>>5555797
But Suika can punch harder than the others as unpunchable mist. So she wins.

>>5555888
>Suika blow up Heaven

you asked for it.

current enemies are always the most powerful.

what i don't understand is why the moonbitches are constantly shown to step all over the cast of characters that we actually like. the fans like the Youkai and do not give a shit about the moon. why make them lose all the time.

>>5555951
There will always be someone stronger.

Just wait until some dragonloli appears.

>>5555951
>to step all over the cast of characters that we actually like.
Because you don't like Eientei.

>>5555951
Constantly = that one time in that one manga?

The moon is just superior get over it.

>>5555961
What's there to like about Eientei anyways? Every character who lives there is a massive bitch.

>>5555988
see >>5555983

Kaguya is awesome. i don`t care about the rest.

>>5555961
they have a very limited cast of developed characters compared to the main area of the world, gensokyo. maybe if they spent some time flashing out the moon or devoting a game or too then it wouldn't feel like they are devaluing the main cast every time they do anything

>>5555997
They already have SSiB, CiLR, Inaba and of course IN.
Any more and people would complain.

>>5555997
Yeah, it would have helped if we actually knew who they were or cared about them before they rubbed their asses all over the main cast.

>>5555997
That's just you.
You didn't complain about ZUN not giving enough information about the moon people before Bougetsushou.

>>5556024
CiLR was there before.

Blame slow translators.

>>5556037
They only had 1 chapter each and it was in the same context as SSiB. Although, reading those did make me like them more.

I wish the moon friends would return some time. You can tell they're totally tsundere for the unclean, corrupt earth. One feast at the shrine and they'd never want to go back up.

>>5555786
>>5555797
Onis have been described as being the strongest youkai. And Tengus and Vampires have been described as being the most agile. That basically means they have the best bodies in the Touhouverse. In ZUN's words:
>Faster than the eye can follow, strong enough to crush boulders, powerful enough to manipulate demons, she's so strong it's almost not fair
>On an individual basis, they have very strong physical and sorcerous abilities that compare favorably to any youkai in Gensokyo.
>In particular, they can fly extremely fast, and there are few, if any, who can match their speed (*1).

I bet in an arm wrestle contest Remilia would come out on top.

>>5556097
Remilia is smalltime

>>5556138
but Faildre, she locked your sorry ass in the basement!.

>single-handedly defeated four of Gensokyo's finest without breaking a sweat and having just been introduced to spellcards

To me it looked like she just bombed her way through all the cards like a noob.

>>5556163
As if you didn't bomb through tons of shit on your first 1CC too.

>>5556159
Flandre stays there because she respects her sister.

>>5555841
Eirin is all brains and no brawn. As we've seen with the bizarre amount of precaution Yukari takes when dealing with foes who might be on par with her, Yukari will either retreat (Shiki) or over-think of a strategy (SSiB). In the case of Eirin, she challenged her face to face and won with relative ease. Eirin herself said her body was too weak to fight Yukari forever. Kaguya ended up having to give Eirin some of her own power:
>Eirin, I grant you one more chance with my power.
>Don't you dare lose again...
>You two, human and youkai!
>Eirin's true strength, the medicine made by my power... you will never forget this!!
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Boundary_Team%27s_Scenario_2

Despite Eirin's reputation of being the "brain of the moon," Yukari obviously didn't fear her as much as she feared (say) Shiki. And in SSiB, Yukari anticipated Eirin's counterattack and managed to out smart her. I guess Eirin, a mere human with wisdom, was no match for Yukari's supercomputer intelligence. One more thing, if Eirin is so powerful how come she took refuge in Yukari's Gensokyo? Why did she have to flee the moon with Kaguya in the first place? (Kaguya is immortal after all so it's not like she would have feared losing her.) That'd be like Yukari having to flee Gensokyo.

There's only one ounce of evidence that Yukari might have feared Eirin. In CoLA it was revealed that Yukari set up the events in SSiB in order to make the Lunarians "pay taxes" for Eirin's stay. Which begs the question, why didn't Yukari just mess with Eirin in SSiB instead of messing with the Lunarians.

>>5556347
Wrong on two counts.

>>5556347

Actual powers may not have anything to do with it. It could just be Eirin is rather quiet and avoids unnecessary attention, while Shikieiki will lecture you to no end.
Yukari has little patience with people who can't take it easy, it seems.

I'm just surprised at how much Yorihime had to rely on other people's powers. If a 10 year old girl went and summoned 5 gods to beat you up, could you say the little 10 year old is stronger than you?

>>5556430
Well, I'm twenty and I can't even summon one god to beat the crap out of somebody. The ten-year-old is obviously doing something right.

>>5556347
>if Eirin is so powerful how come she took refuge in Yukari's Gensokyo? Why did she have to flee the moon with Kaguya in the first place?
The moonfags sent many people after them. They got tired of the killing.

Its in Kaguyas profile I think.

>>5556430
You just described Yugios plot perfectly

>>5556421

Good Lord Eirin is hot.

>>5556347
Yukari has a human shield (Reimu).
>Ease is relative.
Eirin is ALWAYS holding back. (see Eirin's profile).
>assumptions.
Gensokyo is not Yukari's.
Kaguya didn't want to return to the moon.
Eirin stays with Kaguya.
>I say that X revealed that Y

I would put the ability to summon and control goddesses in good use. if you know what I mean?

>>5556347
>Eirin is all brains and no brawn.

She has enough brains to create brawn.

Erins magic was able to seal the whole fucking planet and it was not even her strongest spell.

Yukari needed the Dragons help to create Gensokyo.

Let this sink for a minute.

>>5556572
Eirin's trick worked because it made no sense. She hid the Earth in a pot that was on the Earth.

>>5556572
>Yukari needed the Dragons help to create Gensokyo.
STOP

If you are talking about the creation of the border between fantasy and reality, that was Yukari.

If you mean the Great Hakurei border, that was made by human priests and Yukari is said to have helped. That's also when the dragons appeared.

>>5556593

>>5556598
>However, dragon is also the Gensokyo's god of creation.

>>5556598

Pretty much this.
Nobody really knows if the dragon(s?) did anything. They just happened to appear at the time.

>>5556593

Yukari and Eirin both have the ability to defy common sense. Yukari by her very nature, Eirin by artificial means as a spellcaster.
The difference is that Eirin's ability in the field has been depicted consistently (although this could just be that she hasn't appeared as often in official material), while the preparations and circumstances needed for Yukari to perform things outside her regular portfolio vary drastically. The only things Yukari does consistently are things that involve boundaries between two things directly.

>>5556632
And when was Gensokyo created? When the islands of Zipangu were created.

Even if Eirin was stronger than Suika or Yukari. She'd always be low on my powerlevel list because she only has techniques. And by that I mean, she's only powerful because she's learned to be powerful. I'd put Kaguya and even Reisen above her because they were born with inherently stronger bodies. (And it's only a matter of time before they surpass Eirin's knowledge.) And before you say "Eirin could just learn their powers," let me remind you that it took a mixture of Kaguya's powers of eternity and Eirin's chemistry to create the Hourai Elixir. Yukari and Suika will always be the strongest in my book because they were born with the two strongest abilities one could hope to have in fiction. Yorihime's ability to summon gods can be learned within hours as seen by the 'lazy' miko in SSiB.

Let's just put it this way, if you were to have a child with [insert Touhou] which Touhou would produce the strongest offspring? Having a child with a youkai will grant your child an infinite amount of strength and abilities but pure things would be kryptonite to your child. On the other hand if you had a miko or Lunarian child, your offspring would have a high chance of being born with a lot of spiritual potential.

>>5555991
Being attracted to a NEET is the same thing as being attracted to a fellow /jp/er. You're gay now.

>Yukari needed the Dragons help to create Gensokyo.
Not supported by canon.

>>5556693
>Being attracted to a NEET is the same thing as being attracted to a fellow /jp/er. You're gay now.

If some /jp/er looks like Kaguya I become gay at the speed of light.

>>5556693
This.

Just dont underestimate Kaguyas power. With enough fanwank her power of eternity is comparable to Yukari/Suika

>>5556766
With enough fanwank even fucking Orange is Suika/Yukari territory.

>>5556798
We can do it im sure of it!

>>5556766
Her power is to stop time for someone for all eternity.
She can use it in one fentosecond.
Once your time is stopped you cant do anything. You won`t even know your time is stopped.

She is already broken if you ask me.

>>5556693
You have to differentiate between physical power and abilities.
Eirin and Kaguya are both humans. Both have similar bodies, none of them is a body builder or a cripple.
Reisen appears to be rather athletic compared to them, but that's it. Moon rabbits don't appear to be physically stronger than humans. (The ones in SSiB seem quite weak).

>Yorihime's ability to summon gods can be learned within hours as seen by the 'lazy' miko in SSiB.
More like months and she still isn't proficient at it even though she is a shrine maiden and has experience with divine power since her childhood.

>>5556598
>If you mean the Great Hakurei border, that was made by human priests and Yukari is said to have helped.
Indeed, but Yukari IS the one who proposed it, according to various sources:
>It is said that this youkai was one of those who suggested the creation of the Great Barrier and created what is now Gensokyo.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

>>5556543
>Gensokyo is not Yukari's.
True, but if I was to say it had an owner Yukari would be the second in charge behind the Dragon.
>The project refers to a plan designed and implemented by Yukari in order to restore power to the youkai of Gensokyo, who felt pressured by human expansion.
>Until then Gensokyo was merely an isolated mountain place, but she planned to create the boundary between illusion and reality around Gensokyo, thus logically creating a new world.
>By establishing Gensokyo as an illusionary world, and the outside as the real world, the youkai weakened by the outside world would naturally flock to Gensokyo; this was a truly epochal event.

>It was the youkai who quickly came up with a plan to create such an intellectual world, not the humans of the outside, and not the humans who exterminate youkai for a living.
>The solution endorsed by the sage of the youkai was to isolate Gensokyo using a great magical barrier.
>It created a world which embraced the youkai and the world of the night that the outside world denied, a world into which things and powers flowed as they were denied by the outside world.
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento%3A_Monologue

1. She had a hand in the creation of the Great Barrier.
2. She's the one who created the barrier of illusion/fantasy that a) allowed weaker youkai [who were weakened by the outside world] to survive, and b) hides Gensokyo from humans.
3. She told youkai to migrate to Gensokyo.
4. She once led an army of Gensokyo's most powerful youkai to invade the moon.

>>5556864
Yorihime used teleport like movement against Reimu.

We are both human but i can`t do this :(

>>5556873
I can't either, but apparently, Reimu can teleport.

>>5556918
So comparing Gensokyos normal humans with earths normal humans wont work?

>>5556864
By powers I was talking about magical abilities (e.g., manipulation of fate, control of eternity, etc...). In the case of Kaguya or Reisen's powers, they are the type of powers you have to be born with in order to use. Eirin appears to be a mere human who has learned how to fight on par with youkai. If she was to win against [insert Touhou] it would be with her technology, wisdom, or summons. Not with her inherent abilities.

>>5556970
What about Yorihime. Her ability is to absorb knowledge.

So when she learns how to beat Youkai X it is her own power but when Eirin does the same with just brains it is not?

>>5556970
It seems that Eirin didn't have much luck in ZUN's ability roulette. Her profile already tells of those "abilities", and ZUN didn't give her an additional one, just like for Lily White and Kaenboyu Rin.
>Eirin appears to be a mere human who has learned how to fight on par with youkai.
If what Eirin says is true, she predates youkai.

>>5556944
Since ZUN gives every character, human or not, a more or less silly power, no. We don't have photographic memory like Akyuu. At best, we can come close to Renko's ability.

>>5556993
>Her ability is to absorb knowledge.
That's not something I would call an ability. The one who wrote that as an ability on her wikia page obviously didn't follow the protocol. Many Touhous are capable of absorbing knowledge. Patchouli and Nitori to name a few. Some youkai like Ran and Yukari can solve complex equations in milliseconds, but is that listed as an ability? She also has swordsmanship listed as an ability, when in truth it's more of a (learned) skill than anything. I guess her sister must be an airhead if she doesn't have that listed as her ability.

>>5556693
>Yukari and Suika will always be the strongest in my book because they were born with the two strongest abilities one could hope to have in fiction

You are forgetting someone.

They all held back, that's why they lost. Sakuya didn't at first, but once she realized that Yorihime figured her out, she lost her motivation and gave up.

Remilia was very show off-y throughout her whole battle, and that's why she lost, she wasn't trying to win, she was just trying to impress.

Marisa didn't even bother to try, to her it was basically just am. "Okay I am up let's get it over with"

And Reimu was being Reimu

I'm surprised you didn't mention Toyohimes fan that can destroy everything though

ITT: People forget it was all one big fucking dramatic set up so Yukari could pull a childish prank as revenge, to tell the moonbitches that while they may be strong, they are just as easily deceived as anybody else.

Cheers to Yukari, for the most elaborate beer run ever.

>>5557331
Yukari is a girl in her puberty and the moon is her mom.

>>5557326
>Toyohimes fan

The only fan she'll ever have.

>>5557326
I agree with everything you said save for Marisa. Marisa lost in a fair spellcard duel that she started.

>>5557283
VIVIT > Koishi > Yukari.

>>5557351
Yukari~n is 17 years old.

>>5557359
Ahaha. That poor rabbitfucker.

>>5557359

I'm her fan. No really. She was cute and fun in Inaba.

Yorihime is a total bitch though.

>>5557283

Most underrated ability in Touhou.

>>5557430
must burn those calories

>>5557549
I honestly did not see the subtext when I first read it.

I'm innocent. What the fuck am I doing on /jp/?

They're adorable

Fuck, I wish I could be part of these powerlevel discussions because they are hilarious yet interesting.

Maybe I'll read up during the summer.

Everyone's a mary sue in gensokyo