/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Only newfags and people with no taste (more newfags) think anything from Type-Moon is good.

>>5513511
Then why mention them twice?
>>5513505
Some people like it a lot, some people hate it nigh obsessively, and others have a neutral standing.

Meh

I haven't read it yet. Keep putting it off. Have not even seen the anime. Must be something decent about it if it is so popular.

It is good if you like powerlevel shounen.

>>5513505
Only popular for the waifus.

>>5513605
Don't watch the anime if possible.

Anime is utter shit.

The VN is fine, and as much as I love some Characters I can't call it excellent.

It's good, but nothing more than that.

>>5513511
Popular = Bad
Some people's logic.

>>5513505
Not NEARLY as good as Tsukihime.

UBW was the shit.

>>5513616
Same reason anything otaku related is popular in japan, so whatever.

I heard it it took 3 years for Mirror moon to translate, and that it's as long as the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Haven't read it yet.

It's the greatest work of fiction of our time.

>>5513645

Just no.

it's good
no more. no less.

Better than Tsukihime

The pacing is awful. 3/4th of the time they're explaining this boring shit I don't even care about.

>>5513605
>Must be something decent about it if it is so popular.

This is the stupidest possible sentence in English.

>>5513647

Been years since I last played.
Looking back at it, I think it was actually pretty good.
All the Nasu-ism when I read it really aggravated me so I was a bit hard with it, but it did have a pretty good setting and some very good ideas, even if some weren't as well executed as I would have liked.

I wouldn't put it near my favorites but it's definitely a must play, in the middle-upper tier in the battle eroge genre.

Needs a scene where Shirou defecates in Rin's mouth. Otherwise good.

It's a very high quality, interesting visual novel and I feel that as a franchise it continues to produce a lot of official and fanworks which I personally enjoy.

>>5513656
>3/4th of the time they're explaining this boring shit I don't even care about.
What's the matter? Too FICTION for you?

>Haven't read it yet
What?

I haven't played it yet.

Tsukihime is shitty. Fate is pretty good.

Nothing outstanding.

solid 6/10, 7/10 if you are really being anal.

>>5513657
Sorry to break this to you but you're not any better than the rest of humanity, even though you might like to think so.

Rin is simply the best.

Having played most translated VNs and some untranslated ones it's one of my top five. I'm not normally into action-oriented stuff either.

I love the art, characters, concept and just about everything about it, but I'm finding the VN incredibly boring. I think it's the pacing. Just about every scene is overly long and drawn out. What's happening is interesting, but the general direction of it makes it feel tedious. Even scenes that only take a couple minutes to read feel like they're twice as long.

I guess it can't be helped.

I want to marry sakura

haters gonna hate

I wish Mahoyo wasn't as repetitive as the Fire Scene and the time Shiki played in the forest.

Fate/Stay Night is like a mollusk. I don't have a good explanation for this yet.

>>5513659
Need more battle VNs translated.

Sakura > Saber > Rin

Truth.

>What does /jp/ think of Fate/Stay Night?
I enjoyed it a lot, especially UBW and HF routes

get out and take your shit game with you.

>>5513727
Faggot detected

Tsukihime is better. Shirou is irritating.

>>5513707
FSN will really but one's ADD to the test. I'm not hating, just saying that yes, the pacing is a pretty damn slow at times. Snail slow. Which can be hard to get into right after fast-paced internetting. You really have to be in a chill mood to read Nasu stuff sometimes, but it's worth it I think.

>>5513688

Only little children and CEOs of large companies think popularity has anything to do with quality. Those two are entirely separate things and have no effect on each other.

>>5513707

This.

I fucking love FSN and think it is one of the best VNs of all time. Or at least it would be, if Nasu had a fucking editor.

Endless streams of infodump exposition. Needless repetition. And food, glorious food. The dietary habits of the characters transcribed in excruciating detail, slice-of-life scenes crudely hammered into the story for the sake of having slice of life scenes. As it stands now, FSN is only a good VN with a few great scenes mixed in. Take all of the unnecessary shit (not to mention Nasu's horrid ero writing) and severly reduce or remove it, and FSN would be a great VN.

>>5513744

The pacing is at its worst in the very beginning, in the part where Nasu feels the need to showcase every single minor character to us one after another and explain their pointless backstory that has no effect on anything. Once that part is over, it becomes bearable. And in 2nd and 3rd round you can just skip that part (and you really really should).

>>5513781
I agree with everything you said about the pacing, except the food part. I love the food.

>>5513727

>>5513739
meh, i didnt have much trouble with him, does kinda get badass in UBW and HF (in the end)

ive seen plenty worse anyway... mostly main characters of generic /e/ animu, that dont take the chances they get.

>>5513794
I actually never minded the cooking sections either.

F/SN: Hated it at the start, then loved it, then liked it less and less as it went on until I hated it again at the end. Nice production values, interesting high concept, simple but friendly art, really fucking frustrating characters. Three stars.

>>5513801
But Shirou is so fucking stupid.

>>5513781
does liking his style make me weird?

i think it has character.

>>5513813
It does have character. And that's the thing. "Character" tends to polarize opinions.

It's really bad. I remember when it was my first visual novel. I thought it was really good. Then I just started playing other random VNs and with each new VN F/SN just kept looking worse. Now it's near the bottom, because it's shit.
The writing and characters are among the worst I've seen. It's as though they're explaining stuff to you rather than amongst themselves. Other than that it's basically the Bleach of VNs. Lots of epicbattles to lure in the newfriends.

>>5513781
I don't have any problems with that and the food part is completely exaggerated.

>Endless streams of infodump exposition. Needless repetition
That's good as we are all autistic on this board

Nah the only fault with Nasu is execution. Great ideas that weren't exploited to the fullest which led to some problems with the pacing. You are eagerly awaiting some badass scenes after getting your hopes high and then nothing happens or even gets intercepted with something minor and unrelated.

But the endings were great.

The people whining about the cooking scenes are ADHD retards. VNs are not suited for you.

Great overall, but too drawn out at times with too much cooking.

>>5513827
Obvious troll

>>5513813
I like it a lot. It's one of the reasons I like F/SN and Tsukihime so much.

I didn't mind the "cooking scenes" either because I wasn't just playing F/SN for the fights.

>>5513839
Nope, you're an idiot.

>>5513827

>it's basically the Bleach of VNs

Sure is ZUN!bar in here.

It's just that the slice of life of Nasu fucking sucks.
Cooking or just the characters lying around and doing nothing much can be done in a very entertaining way even in an eroge of this genre.
For example Ayakashibito did both slice of life/comedy and action extremely well, it was also fucking long, almost as much as FSN yet never felt drew out.

>>5513848
Me and ZUN!bar aren't the only ones who picked up on it.

>>5513812
well i think his way of thinking is pretty realistic for such an unrealistic situation.

humans are dumb, i mean, what bunch of idiots thinks its fun to stay inside and fap to imaginary waifus all day... just saying.

>>5513829
>the food part is completely exaggerated.

I thought so, until I actually read the thing myself. The first COOKAN scene started and I went "heh, this is what they're talking about", and just nudged the scroll wheel along, taking it as humor... and it went on. And on. And on. And then came the EATING scene that was even longer. And then there came another such scene. Came Shirou bragging about what an excellent housewife he is and Sakura bragging about how she's almost good at cooking as Shirou and then Rin popped up and MUHAHAA I'LL SHOW YOU FAGGOTS WITH MY SUPERIOR CHINESE COOKING and I'm just staring at it and going why

why

why do we need to hear this? It's not interesting. Food is stupid. FUCK FOOD. I hate food. Get back to fighting and fucking already.

>>5513851
Why do expect slice of life in times of war?

>>5513873
Because too much tension kills the tension.
It's like a rollercoaster, you need some downs to make the ups noticeable.

>>5513825
touche

>>5513840
thats pretty much it yeah

>>5513827
because battles shouldnt be epic and are better if they're boring, yeah i agree... not

>>it's basically the Bleach of VNs

That's a pretty good way to put it.

Some people like Bleach, mind you.

>>5513868
>has yet to eat anything besides microwave food

>>5513868
>Get back to fighting and fucking already.
Thanks for proving >>5513832 right.

>>5513868
>It's not interesting. Food is stupid. FUCK FOOD. I hate food. Get back to fighting and fucking already.
Typical Type-Moon fag

Interesting concept with wasted potential.

Hopefully Fate/Extra doesnt sit on it like FSN did.

>>5513897
At least FATE/STAY NIGHT is well plotted out, which wasn't true about Bleach the last time I checked in on it.

>>5513912
>Interesting concept with wasted potential.
Looks like someone hasn't read Fate/Zero

Food is good.

>>5513912
>implying that Mordred is in Fate/extra

>>5513880

Downs should come after climaxes and serve as bridges between the climax and the next escalation of tension. In FSN Nasu would be leading up to a climax, and then a new day would come and we'd get slice-of-life'd. It completely killed whatever momentum the story had. Like putting speedbumps all over the tracks in a racing game. Any desire to advance plot, characterization, action etc. would come to a halt. And these scenes were unnecessary to the rest of the story. You could cut most of them out and the rest of the story wouldn't suffer.

>>5513897
I've never read Bleach but it must be really good if that's true.

Though I suspect it's just "it has fighting and I don't like it, so it must be like Bleach."

>>5513907
More like typical 15 year old

Also F/SN is not like Bleach, Bleach has literally no plot and is just being dragged out as long as possible so as to produce a steady weekly income for the publisher and the creator. F/SN actually tells a story, there's a finite amount of characters and everything is enclosed in a finite space. In other words, it actually has a beginning, middle and end, which were plotted out from the start.

Comparison to ongoing manga series it barely has common shit with, F/SN is not bad.
Whether you think it's just decent with obvious flaws or a great read despite them, depends largely on your tastes.

I think Nasu put too much into Shirou and not enough in everyone else.
I was especially disappointed by Saber's story and characterization.

There are definitely genuine issues with the pacing and execution, especially early on. To most people, that translates to "boring." Recognizing something is boring does not make you an ADHDfag. It's not just the cooking or the eating; even the battle scenes have issues. It's almost like watching everything in slow motion, or going 15 in the fastlane.

>>5513966
I think everyone had their fair share of focus.

>>5513970
Wasted focus for most of them.

>>5513958

FSN doesn't exactly have a stellar plot either. What it has is an excuse for people to fight.

Quick, tell me what happened in Fate route, without making references to who fought who?

>>5513919

Of course not,Fate/Zero's a Novel,I want a game. With Moral choices,a plot that doesnt revolve around you being "Lawful" in some way and some real goddamn options.

I want Bioware to make a Fate/Stay Night WRPG ;_;

>>5513946

I named it thisismordred.jpg because I wanted to use that to shit on the people who thought Red Saber = Mordred.

>>5513511

Only newfriends use the word "newfag", you fucking little cocksucker. Enjoy your /b/ and don't ever come back here.

>>5513977
Tell me who was wasted focus on?

>>5513983
>a plot that doesnt revolve around you being "Lawful" in some way

Heaven's Feel gave you that.

I hated it. I prefer my protagonists to not be petty shitheads.

>>5513988
I'm not that faggot but replacing fag with friend doesn't make you much different.

>>5513954
>What it has is an excuse for people to fight.
And yet fighting isn't even the focus. That doesn't really make sense.

>>5513988
sup butthurt asspained newfag cancer who has a power level of under 9000 and isn't epic at all.

>>5513999
>fighting
>Not focus
>F/SN

HAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

>>5514005
As in actual fighting scenes.
The fact that threads used to end up in POWER LEVELS is a different issue.

>>5513999
Wow, not sure how I managed to misquote that badly.

>>5514005
Just look at all the people in this thread complaining about how this wasn't enough action.

>>5514000

>>5514029
>there wasn't enough action.

>>5513980

There was once a boy name Emiya Shirou who wanted to be a superhero. He wanted to save everyone, to live sacrificing his life for others and not caring about himself. It was his ideal.

He met Saber. She lived her life only for the sake of others, and not for herself. This made Shirou angry. He thought she should take care of herself, and not destroy herself for the sake of others.

Then he realized that all the criticisms he had heaped at the way she was living her life equally applied to him. He realized that he could not save everyone. He could only save those that it was within his power to save.

Fate is ultimately about a man coming to grips with the fact that we can't always live up to our ideals, that life isn't perfect, and that it is better to focus on doing what you can within your limits than foolishly trying to live beyond them.

>>5514029
FSN was a battle eroge without a doubt, and with more fights than the average at that.
But in this media, it's kind of hard to make a story with a constant string of action scenes.

>>5514056
What about Mystery,Political and Romance novels?

>>5514029
They're the same teenage idiots who complain about VN not having enough sex.

>>5514067
Those people whining about not enough sex and fighting make up the overwhelming majority of the F/SN fanbase.

bump

Badass scenes don't have to be fighting scenes. It's just that you would expect some more moves of the characters when you have a war of Ma ansters and Servants going on. Who's scheming what and that sort of thing. The story implies that many times and then nothing happens or like in the first third of all routes Shirou plays dumb and doesn't care.

>>5514005

The primary focus of FSN was the development of the main character Emiya Shirou. A lot of his development as a character just so happened to occur on the battlefield.

>>5514056
>But in this media, it's kind of hard to make a story with a constant string of action scenes.
And? That just explains why it's focus isn't action.

>>5514047

>>5513980 here, I'm actually very impressed. Didn't think anyone could do it.

Too bad that's like 5% of the route's content.

>>5514125
It's the entire point of the route.

Calling FSN a shounen battle manga equivalent is hilarious and shows how unversed in the subject you are. F/SN was released as a complete product with an ending, everything in F/SN is there to support or move towards that ending.

The primary flaw in shounen battle manga is they drag themselves out for 12+ years at times endlessly. They exist only to drag a carrot in front of the reader to get the reader to buy the next chapter.

It's not even comparable.

>>5514144
We're not comparing them because of the length idiot or how much is released at the same time.

>>5514153
Wow, you're calling me an idiot and you didn't even understand what was being said.

>>5514162
Yes I do, F/SN wasn't designed to get you to keep reading like Bleach. No one cars. That's not why we're comparing them.
Of course it's not the exact same thing as a manga, it's a completely different form of media.
There are other reasons it's the equivalent of Bleach to VNs.

>>5514172
Nope, try again when you can actually understand points being made.

>>5514175
You are a fucking retard. It's you who has no clue what's going on.

>>5514172
Wow, your reading comprehension is shit AND you don't know how to use sage. I guess it all makes sense.

It's quite good and I really like it, but I will acknowledge that some people beyond the "popular things are bad" crowd legitimately don't like it, as is their right.

>>5514183
Oh look, another retard. Not surprising it's someone defending F/SN.

>>5514172
>No one cars.

Oh lol. You made my day, kid.

I think FSN becomes powerlevels if you discuss it in a Type-Moon thread.

But it is clear who is strong and who is weak when discussing FSN alone.

Most FSN discussions are about Shirou's LOL Ideals.

It's objectively rather bad, but I like it a lot.

Yes, I'm humble enough to admit that I sometimes like bad things.

>>5514204
Or whose waifu is the better waifu.

>>5514212
>objectively bad
Objectively it's very polished compared to most of the medium.

>>5514143
>It's the entire point of the route.

It may be the entire point, but it sure as hell is not the entire content.

The content of Fate, and every route really, is mostly fighting, or preparing to fight, or worrying about an upcoming fight, or recovering from a fight, with brief stops to the kitchen and molluskville along the way. There is an actual plot somewhere under there, that I'll admit, but it's very brief and you'll have to do a hell of a lot of digging to get at it.

>>5514218

Production values do not equal quality, not by themselves.

>>5514236
...Really. I think we read different things from the same text.

>>5514212
>It's objectively rather bad
Now it isn't. It has very high production values, delivers a lot of material and was a real labor of love. The graphics, sound effects and music were all pretty top-notch actually. And don't give me any tripe about how the story was objectively bad; for VN fare it was quite ambitious, whether you personally enjoyed it or not. There is no "objectively bad" when it comes to written fiction anyway.

>>5514243
We're talking about the objective qualities here bro, that means leave your subjective preferences as the door when you use the word objectively bad.

>>5514243
It already elevates it above objectively bad' (haha) vns that are unpolished

>>5514249
There is objectivity in analysis of writing. FSN was bad.

>>5514248
And as for writing skill, having seen much much worse in VNs, it is really not 'bad', rather mediocre(overexposition and repetition being the problems)

>>5514248
>There is no "objectively bad" when it comes to written fiction anyway.
I agree with the rest of your post, but not this part.

I agree F/SN wasn't objectively bad in its writing however, it's not like it had misspellings or potholes and contradictions every other sentence.

>>music top-notch

Proof that FSNfags have no taste.

>>5514236

Okay, they were fighting a lot. Remind me why they were fighting again? Specifically, why Shirou was fighting?

>>5514248
>There is no "objectively bad" when it comes to written fiction anyway.

Oh lol, this also makes my day.

Yes, written fiction CAN be objectively bad. Just look at Angel Beats.

>>5514258
VN Wise, not at all.
OVERALL FICTION WISE, mediocre and amateurish(too many words to get the point across).
There is too much AWFUL shit to call this 'bad'.

>>5514265
Now now... It's probably more likely they just have low power levels.

>>5514264

but it has misspelling and plotholes.

>>5514258
There is objectivity in analysis of writing. FSN was bad.

I don't think you know how to objectively analyze something. You not agreeing with the pacing or content isn't it.

>>5514265
It has to fitting and contributing to the atmosphere, not necessarily great stand-alone tracks.

>>5514276
>but it has misspelling and plotholes.
Really? First I'm surprised you know Japanese, and second I'd like you to point out all these potholes.

>>5514276
Misspeling is an issue of translating/editing.
No, there are no plotholes/inconsistency.
There are issues that are not expanded, but do not hinder understanding.

This thread just reached a new level of awful now that the armchair literary critics have emerged.

>>5514249

It is an objective fact that production values are but one, and rather insignificant, aspect of quality. Maybe 10% of the end product at tops.

As a story, FSN has grave weaknesses apparent to any literary critic. Its story is bloated, badly focused, paced and told in an incoherent and meandering manner. It purports to be a love story yet the things that happen in it are like an unusually verbose ten year old slamming action figures on each other and shouting "POW! SPLOOGE! YOU CANNOT DEFEAT ME FOR MY POWER IS MAXIMUM SUPER A!"

You're acting like those vidya reviewers who give 90% scores to every game that doesn't look like clown's ass, assuming that just because a lot of time and money was spent of something, it must be good.

>>5514294
>I wish I too knew about writing.
Sorry.

>>5514276

The only major plothole I can think of (Shirou instantly knowing what Rule Breaker does without even seeing it in action) can be explained by the Counter Force deciding to take action, anyway.

>>5514289
>No, there are no plotholes/inconsistency.

Overstating your case much?

How about this one: why the fuck is Rin a nymphomaniac slut with the techniques of a pro in Fate and a blushing virginal bride who has never even SEEN an erection in UBW?

>>5514304
>I thought F/SN was a love story.
Christ, no wonder you think it was bad. Relationships were only a single mechanism to explore Shirou's development.

Literally nothing is funnier than armchair literary critics who argue about VNs. There are very few, if any, VNs that have any kind of literary merit.

The "love stories" in FSN were shit, Nasu really dropped the ball there, even Tsukihime did this better.

>>5514323
>Why is Rin a slut in Fate

Because she's incredibly gay for Saber. Furthermore, being naked seems to make her uncomfortable.

As for her techniques, well... being a woman means she'd know how to please other women, no?

>>5514308
I've taken enough literature classes to know that literary criticism is bullshit.

>>5514269
>Yes, written fiction CAN be objectively bad. Just look at [insert some other popular thing here]
No, you still look stupid to me. Opinions != objective. Even the most poorly-constructed writing may still move someone. Ever heard of poetry? Some of it is just a random amalgam of words almost. But if somebody was moved by it, then the author was successful. Being successful at conveying what you were trying to convey == good. Nothing else matters. Hence, the written word can only be measured with opinions, not with any objectivity. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just pretentious, or probably a lit major trying to make themselves appear useful for something.

>>5514289

because you read it in japanese right? there are misspellings.

if you want inconsistencies: at the start of Fate route Saber doesn't know who Kotomine is.Later on in the she sees him again and recognizes him as a Master of the previous war.

Shirou uses Rho Arias against Gilgamesh despite the fact he doesn't know about it at all, the japanese text says it's Shirou.
Then Nasu insulted its readers saying " lol you're so silly, it was Archer"

>>5514236

The plot primarily involves a war. So of course there's going to be lots of action. But action scenes can be used to advance plot just like any type of scene can.

But FSN was always more about the characters than it was the plot. This is especially true of Shirou's character. Many of the action scenes are vehicles to demonstrate the development of his character.

>>5514323
>How about this one: why the fuck is Rin a nymphomaniac slut with the techniques of a pro in Fate and a blushing virginal bride who has never even SEEN an erection in UBW?

That's your ace in the hole? Seriously?

Try thinking about the differences between the situation. Rin wasn't going to be on the penetration end in Fate route. That right there is a huge psychological difference.

>>5514311
Shirou's SKILL is seeing a weapon and understanding everything about it, storing it at his world and recalling it. It is the only fucking thing he can do. That is why when he SEES Rule breaker in both Fate and HF, he warns Saber (too late in UBW)
>>5514323
Different circumstances and affection for the people involved. Casual sex and romantic sex. I guess that falls on an audience with no familiarity.

>>5514349
Some screwed up people can eat shit and think it's good.
Criteria exists, same for drawing/painting and music.

>>5514304
VNs aren't supposed to be straight stories, especially given how the story is set up and the characters.
The medium is highly reliant on either porn or having the player identify with the MC who then interacts with these fictional and supposedly attractive women and then a story gets shoved in, usually making the MC some kind of hero who gets the girls.

No better than Twilight.

>>5514352
>>But FSN was always more about the characters than it was the plot.
About one character you mean, Shirou is the only decently developed character in the game.

>>5514351
Regardless of 'Nasu' Retcon, it's a big point in the Archer Fight that his knowledge nd expreience flows towards Shirou.
Saber was not really familair with Kotomine(read Zero) and she also is hesitant at first to talk about her previous summon in detail(see the difference in Fate and HF)
Next.

>I think VNs are bad with no literary value
So stop wasting your time here.
>>>/lit/

>>5514377
Perhaps you talk about 'quality', cause many characters get development scenes and interactions, which validates his point.

>>5514353
>That's your ace in the hole? Seriously?

Just the first thing that came to mind, bro.

You could have a leg to stand on if you had claimed that FSN's plot holes are not important. But to say that it doesn't have ANY plot holes is just silly.

Another FSN plothole is the fact that Shirou can only "copy" a skill if the original owner used that skill.
He copies Berserker Nine Lives despite Berserker never using the skill himselg, he can't because of his "mad enhancement"

>>5514357

As I recall, Shirou has to see the weapon being USED before he can trace it.

In HF, it's like he's gained meta-knowledge, which is why I blame the Counter Force. The villains in that route are trying to get to Akasha anyway.

>>5514349

Yeah, see, I never said that people couldn't enjoy something that's objectively bad.

There does exist objective criteria for measuring if something is 'good' or not.

>>5514390
Actually that was someone else who said it didn't have any. I'm saying you're a retard for claiming that's a plot hole.

It's nice that you're avoiding responding to the actual point.

>>5514391
>Another FSN plothole is the fact that Shirou can only "copy" a skill if the original owner used that skill.
What? I don't think you played F/SN.

This thread is a good argument for using trips.

>>5514377

Yeah, the story was all about Shirou. But you did get some insight into the other character's personalities. Caster's love for Souichirou, Illya's relationship with Berserker, etc. Most of the side characters were given some fleshing out.

>>5514360
>Criteria exists, same for drawing/painting and music.
And all such criteria were drafted up by pseudo-intellectual posers who have nothing else more worthwhile to contribute to the world. In the real world, success is defined only by whether the end goal was achieved. This is why people practicing hard sciences can make objective claims.

Say I built a microprocessor, with the goal to achieve 10 zettaFLOPS. Did it achieve 10 zettaFLOPS? Then it was good. If not, it was bad. It did not achieve what it was meant to. This is rational and reasonable.

Now you cannot apply this to artistic works, because as I said before, whether they achieve their intended goal or not is not dependent on any metric. Hence, you cannot just pull criteria out of your ass and apply it to things which in truth can only be measured subjectively.

>>5513527

>Some people like it a lot, some people hate it nigh obsessively, and others have a neutral standing.

It's the Final Fantasy 7 of VNs

>>5514405
You haven't played the game, newfag. When Shirou copies a skill he looks the "memories of the sword" but there are no memories of Berserker's sword being being used during a Nine Lives. Berserker can't use it, never did.
How did he copy Nine Lives?

Three types of opinions on F/SN:

#1 saw the anime and then became newfag's first VN
>omg omg so cool best thing ever xD
#2 read the VN but disliked Nasu's writing style
>Overrated shit, only newfags like it.
#3 read the VN and liked Nasu's style
>you know what, i think it was actually pretty damn good.

>>5514439
You're confusing me but I'm pretty sure you totally misunderstood what happened.

>>5514400
>It's nice that you're avoiding responding to the actual point.

Well allow me: you're full of shit. Rin in Fate acted like she had pulled a train all the way through Homurabara High. She was the temptress, the succubus, a torrent of lust. She very enthusiastically 'warmed up' Saber and Shirou and when the action started, she stayed there and masturbated like crazy. At no point did she show the slightest hesitation, doubt or shame.

In UBW, she acts literally like she has never even seen a dirty picture in her life.

That degree of change - from apparently gobbling thousands of dicks to never having seen one - can NOT be explained away by something as small as who fucks who at the moment. Rin in Fate would have fucked Shirou without blinking an eye.

>>5514421

Bullshit you can't apply objective criteria to artistic works.

Compare the scribbles of a four-year-old to the works of Vincent Van Gogh, for instance.

>>5514439

Well, Hercules must have performed Nine Lives at some point in his life, correct?

>>5514475
>Rin in Fate would have fucked Shirou without blinking an eye.

I'm thinking you need to replay Fate. She's clearly embarrassed about even going so far as to kiss him.

Fingering Saber, on the other hand...

>>5514439
NPs exist outside of time. Berserker wouldn't need to do shit. The only requirement is the sword has done it at some point in some recursion or branching existence or whatever. It's like you didn't even play the game.

>>5514482
Hercules never used that sword before, it's a piece of rock from a temple dedicated to him.

How did Shirou copy Nine Lives?

>>5514421
Your theory falls apart when you realize some works of writing are remembered for decades (not saying fsn is one of these by a galactic long shot.) but others fade into obscurity. There's a substantive use for study of literature because it is connected to philosophy, which is half the underlying basis of all politics and law, the other half being economics.

While it may not have been determined, there is something substantive in the idea that certain books considered to be "literature" as opposed to plain "writing" have something innate within them that makes their appeal expansive and enduring.

That's why literary theory exists, although literary theorists tend to make up a lot of bullshit to explain relatively simple books that are appealing because they're fun, and will probably not ever be considered literature in the future.

>>5514475
>Well allow me: you're full of shit. Rin in Fate acted like she had pulled a train all the way through Homurabara High. She was the temptress, the succubus, a torrent of lust. She very enthusiastically 'warmed up' Saber and Shirou and when the action started, she stayed there and masturbated like crazy. At no point did she show the slightest hesitation, doubt or shame.

No she didn't. She acted like she was on the outside of the situation and relatively safe as opposed to being the one with her chastity at steak and some probable pain.

You really don't understand Rin's character at all do you? It was completely consistent. Constantly when it was dealing with someone else she did things perfectly (specifically Shirou). When it came to herself she had self doubts.

>>5514501

>How did Shirou copy Nine Lives?

magic

>>5514482
With the example you gave I'd say they're about both even, to be honest. Van Gogh was a shit artist imo

>>5514492
It doesn't work like that. The eirei that is summoned as a servant is only "a particular eirei from a time line" and the NP are the one he had in life. It's like you haven't played the game.

>>5514501
>Hercules never used that sword before, it's a piece of rock from a temple dedicated to him.

>How did Shirou copy Nine Lives?

Read the post right above yours bro.

>>5514501
>How did Shirou copy Nine Lives?
He extracted knowledge from the axe-sword.

>>5514506
My point being that just because an objective reason for a book to be literature cannot be determined doesn't mean they are only evaluated subjectively.

>>5514515
>It doesn't work like that. The eirei that is summoned as a servant is only "a particular eirei from a time line" and the NP are the one he had in life. It's like you haven't played the game.
All I can say is you're wrong. Sorry. NPs reside in the throne of heroes just like servants.

Without picking sides, I like how Type-Moon threads without fail devolve into people referring to some tiny detail in chapter 57 of act 13 of some fanbook only printed in outer Mongolia, add some vaguely related bullshit interpretation of their own and finally cap their remarks with "It's like you never even played the game" or "if you didn't notice even this, you should go back to Naruto".

It's like all the worst aspects of fandoms in one. Not seeing the wood for the trees, selling their own interpretation as fact, and haughty arrogance.

>>5514519
The axe sword is from a piece of rock from a temple, Ilya's family turned it into a sword and gave it to Berserker. read the description.

>>5514501
One: Assume the weapons absorb the owner's fighting knowledge. Berserker used Nine Lives off-screen before the fight.
Two: Fucking ARCHER ARM, which he unseals theer for the first time. Archer has knowledge beyond this grail war. Most likely answer.
Easy.
>>5514390
Except not one is mentioned.

The only 'plothole' (more of a not clearly explained case) is Caliburn's strength at Fate and decimating berserker, where even if you assume it was a CRITICAL hit (vertical chop or whatever splitting him in two) and a high rank weapon, 7 lives are a bit overkill.

>>5514510
>You really don't understand my bullshit interpretation of Rin's character at all do you?

>>5514510

She's a lot like Shirou in that respect, really.

>>5514513

I couldn't actually think of a decent, modern-day artist to use as an example.

That certainly says something. I'm not sure what, but it says something.

>>5514538
'Because mine is obviously the proper one. It's not like people can act differently in different circumstances'

>>5514544

Cool self-reply.

>>5514528
What are you butthurt about, that you didn't understand some part of the story and somebody here called you a retard for it? That's just how we operate here, I don't like it either but don't take it so hard.

>>5514455
I read it, liked it somehow and moved on.
Personally more than anything I can't understand the people who seem completely stuck with it.

>>5514530
This post is right. That's really the only semi plot hole, and its more just stupid than contradictory.

>>5514530
>Except not one is mentioned.

Selective reading must be your super power. There's like ten listed in the past couple dozen posts.

>>5514528
It is threads like these that prove that the majority of /jp/'s userbase is functionally retarded.

>>5514545
You mean the DEBUNKED ones, like Rule Breaker issue?

>>5514523
newfag, eirei reside in the throne, not servants, and only a particular aspect of that eieri is summoned as a servant, including his NP

So we've cleared up Rin and Nine Lives. Anything else you guys didn't understand you need cleared up?

>>5514529

This. Hercules' original weapon was a bow.

Ilya being the only person in the world who can materialize and move souls but after her death people still moved Shirou's soul to a puppet is another cool plothole.

>>5514571

Where does it say only she can move souls?

>>5514557

You seem to be in the mistaken belief that we accept your disagreement as some kind of proof.

It's like the story is swiss fucking cheese. A hundred holes, all tiny.

>>5514571
> after her death people still moved Shirou's soul to a puppet is another cool plothole.
Shirou's soul was like a seedling at the end of HF.

Think of the puppet body as "soil".

>>5514530
The Caliburn issue is easily explained.
Swords are designed to be held with two hands at most. However in the case of Caliburn, both Shirou and Saber had both of their hands holding, thus exponentially increasing Caliburn's power as it was wielded with four hands.

>>5514594
BLEACH THE VN CONFIRMED.

>>5514594
>Swords are designed to be held with two hands at most. However in the case of Caliburn, both Shirou and Saber had both of their hands holding, thus exponentially increasing Caliburn's power as it was wielded with four hands.
I smiled.

>>5514598
Hurr.

>>5514594

Why does this make perfect sense...?

>>5514594
Yes, that was a joke.
Still, a Super Hoky Sword cleaving him in two is sufficient explanation on it's own.

>>5514530
Caliburn's power was pretty much fixed to kill Berserker 7 times.

It was good but nothing great. I think I have it as 82/100 on EGS.
I consider many action eroges to be better than it (like the aforementioned Ayakashibito + Chrono Belt for example).

>>5514571
Moving souls is not that super. We see 2 people at least in F/SN alone doing it.
Refreshing Shirou's soul which was about to go poof is the miracle.

>>5514530
>Caliburn's strength at Fate
That's not a plothole. Caliburn is an incredibly strong weapon. In the rankings it's about one half-notch below EA.

>>5514628
That is why I said , not really a plothole, just not spoonfed (since we are not given clear rankings for the anal guys to find faults with)

>>5514622
>We see 2 people at least in F/SN alone doing it.
Who are these people?

>>5513511
What about the people who read it when it was still under translation and right after it's release?

A lot of them liked it, at least before the fanbase expanded as it did.

>>5513511
Eh, I agree that only newfags would think it's the best VN ever, or anything like that, but F/SN and Tsukihime are both solidly mid tier, at least as far as the selection of English stuff goes. Acting as if they're absolute garbage doesn't really make much sense.

>>5514813
This, thread over.

>>5514649
Come the fuck on, one is HF focus

>>5514867
HF isn't like any other spell.

Don't treat it as the same vein as Rin's bullets.

>>5514897
...You are an idiot.
I mean the ROUTE. A character there moves soul around in his own way.

>>5514897
>solidly mid-tier

What would you call high-tier then?

>>5514904
Only Ilya and Sakura can move souls.

Oh it's bad luck to be you,
a superhero of many isn't new,
when you think you are full of luck,
you will get a spear in you lung,
oh it's bad luck to be you.
Now, 10 year being an orphan,
and trying to save the king from all harm,
equipped with just a stick
and a head made out of brick,
his magical sheath failed as a charm,
Oh it's bad luck to be you,
the king will never stay with you,
in a pickle you will stick,
and you will bleed like a pig,
oh it's bad luck to be you.

>>5514628

>That's not a plothole. Caliburn is an incredibly strong weapon. In the rankings it's about one half-notch below EA.

Stop.
Enuma Elish is EX rank.
There is no "notches" below EX rank. EX rank is not A+++, or any other "one step above A++".
EX rank is "incalculable". It's something that's either so strong it doesn't fit on the scale, or something so specialized it can't be analyzed properly.
Ionioi Hetairoi is EX rank, but Excalibur (A++ rank) demolishes it. It's a specialty, but its power is too great and varied to fit on the ranking scale compared to the straightforward and potent Excalibur.

>>5514909
Well, that varies from person to person. Personally, I'd say Cross Channel, Saya no Uta, Ever17, maybe Symphonic Rain, to name a few. But I've only really read stuff in English (can't read Japanese, and don't want to read painful ATLAS translations either) and I'm sure a lot of you would disagree on some of those.

>>5514949
Okay, then shouldn't Caliburn itself be EX rank then? Not one notch below; just parallel? I mean it's the sword that controls destiny.

>>5514980
Caliburn is just "above average".

>>5514980

It's not much of a weapon and we're never given its rank.

Hell, it's stated that it's considerably inferior to Excalibur as a weapon, even though Saber liked it more.

The only reason Caliburn did so much devastation to Berserker is due to a very strange quirk that's never explained or expanded: Saber was the one wielding the traced weapon, not Shirou.

>>5514559
How did Rin kill ~5 of Berserker's lives with lolgems?
Unless I forgot something big, that's some pretty thick plotarmor.

>>5515103

She only killed one life.

Archer killed six lives.

He had 5 lives left, but Caliburn killed the equivalent of 7.

So yeah, you missed something big; Archer vs. Berserker.

>>5515112
No, what I forgot was the ShirouSaber Berserker fight.

>>5515093
>>5515077
It's a splendind blade regardless. Just because it lacks a BEAM does not mean it cannot slash well.

Travis Touchdown can kill servants.

>>5515194
That is true. It did lop of one of Berserker's arms quite easily.