/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>I need your help.
no you dont

>>5386811
Yes I do.

>>5386816
No.

>>5386822
Since I really need a good answer, I've decided to continue to answer this as a bump.

Indeed, I do need help. Or at least would appreciate it quite a lot.

>>5386803
>Anyway, what do you recommend me to do?

I recommend this.

Flip a coin, do whatever.

Why so helpless, OP?

Play the game. By the end, you will like the art.

>>5386830
It's /jp/. Do you really think anyone going to tell you to watch anime or read manga?
Don't read it if you don't want to.

>>5386862
Well... Flipping a coin might be slightly difficult seeing as there are 3 alternatives...

And mostly since I really, really, loved Higurashi, and would prefer to start with the "best" version of Umineko.

Get used to the art and be glad he improved since Higurashi. You'll grow to like it.

Watch the anime afterward and be prepared to rage.

>>5386881

>And mostly since I really, really, loved Higurashi, and would prefer to start with the "best" version of Umineko.

The anime, man. Another instant Studio Deen classic right there.

>>5386881
Roll d6 then.
Looking for the best? Sample all 3, pick 1 for yourself.

>>5386934
Nah, decided on the VN (Thanks mostly to /a/, I might add).

Anyway, thanks to those few who actually gave me good answers.

Either way the story is pretty bad.

>>5387014
Oh? That's quite a shame. I really liked the story of Higurashi... Is that your personal opinion, or do the majority of people here agree?

>>5387027
>majority of people here agree

hehehhheeehahahhhahahahahhhhhhaaaaahahhhhhhahahhaaaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa

>>5387027
It's my personal opinion. I loved Higurashi too, but Umineko is very different so liking one won't necessarily mean you'll like the other.

>>5387049
What, did I accidentally say something funny? If it was due to some bad grammar, I apologize, but I'm not that good in English.

>>5387027
Not this guy.
But I doubt you'll find much people who will disagree that the story of Umineko has taken quite an unwanted turn.
Honestly I thought it had a lot of potential but right now, well it's fun like watching something like Code Geass was fun I guess.
Don't expect too much.

>>5387075
Oh, okay. As I said, quite a shame. Though I personally didn't feel that Code Geass got that much worse as time passed, so maybe I won't have any problems with this either.

Read it. If the art still bugs you by episode 2 then go ahead and kill yourself.

>>5387112
Okay, I'll try to remember to do that if that happens. Thanks for the advice!

As someone who watched the Umineko anime but hasn't touched the VN, I say play the VN.

The anime just isn't any good, and the /jp/ threads suggest that you're missing a lot.

Play the VN. It's not like DEEN's art compares favorably to anything and the VN's music is so much better it's not even funny.

Is there a way to unlock episodes? I played through 1-2 before, and I don't want to do it again to get 3.

>>5387305
Yes.

And that is...?

>>5387369
unlock the episodes
>start
>unlock

>>5386803

Please know that you have been thoroughly trolled this whole time.

The Umineko VN is infinitely better than the anime, the art isn't the best but it's tolerable and you'll grow to love it after two Episodes, and the music in the VN is absolute god tier. Also, solving the mystery is so much fun.

The anime is a piece of utter crap not to be approached with a 50 foot pole and the manga is unfinished.

>>5387075

And as of Episode 6, the story's gotten...well, interesting...but there is absolutely no reason to say that it has gone the route of CGR2. Ryuukishi created himself a situation he'll either be stuck in and unable to get out of, or tie everything together brilliantly for an epic finish.

As someone working on its translation, I can assure that Episode 6 is fantastic, though I wouldn't deny a few places he's gone with the story could be questionable...especially if a particular theory that this board adores is true.

>>5387596
But this board as a whole hates pretty much all the theories.

>>5387609
The one about the servants. Trying not to spoil for the newbie, because just mentioning that said theory is even POSSIBLE is a spoiler.

>>5387619
Most seem to hate that theory. Hell, since that has gained more prominence, theory threads have slown down like crazy compared to post Episode 3 and 4 threads. In fact I would go so far as to say it's put most of us off of theorizing, until 6 is done at the least.

You're a horrible person for thinking the anime is even an option. It's done by Chiaki Kon. The same director from Higurashi. The manga isn't bad, but it does not compare to the VN. Get over your hatred of the art, you will come to love it.

You seem like a retard, I suggest you watch the anime.

>>5387628
After episode 4 a similar theory was just as prominent. There's just more resistance to it now. Strange considering episode 5 and 6 has only made it stronger while its real problems lay in previous episodes.

>>5387628

Well, the people who believe it won't admit that other theories are even possible. It *always* hijacks Umineko threads without fail. It's worse than the Jessica stuff after 5. Which bugs me. Because there's another possibility, however unlikely people may think it is.

>>5387596
Music is not special, just fitting, save for about 3-4 tracks.
Art is horrendous.
And no, no matter what he ties in, he has written way too many stupid things already.
The journey matters just as much as the destination.

Shkanontrice is a brilliant theory that ties together everything in Umineko. From love, to mutual lies, to creating your own world, to the motive and reason of the epitaph murders, the culprit, the nature of the sin, the nature of Beatrice, and the struggles of Kinzo.

>>5387637

What's hilarious is that said theory (Pony, right?) is making a comeback now.

>>5387637
>>5387640
The main thing that bothers me about it is how it goes against the message in Episode 5 to trust the writer that the solution won't be fucking retarded.

>>5387640
There is another possibility. But rather than like you say "however unlikely people may think it is" it's more like "however unlikely it actually is." The theory has a 90% chance of being right.

>>5387655

...I think peoples' tunes might change a bit when they can finally read the last chapter of Episode 6, just saying.

>>5387646
Except narrative wise, is fucking stupid, and makes the presentation of what we have seem completely fucking pointless, with 5 mbs o ftext to 20 distilled kbs of assumed events.

>>5387661

I'm inclined to agree with this guy; it really ruins so much characterization and just makes me feel all around like most of Umineko was a dirty trick and intentional misdirection. Because until Episode 6, there's no reason for that theory to be any more than a vague possibility in the cat box. All the "foreshadowing" people have for it is just stuff people find in retrospect.

>>5387650
No, I'm not talking about the pony theory. That is only making a comeback with a very desperate crowd of people who can't let go of the fact that Beatrice does not really exist, a fact that has been shoved in the face of the reader with episodes 5 and 6.

Before the pony theory, Shkanon was the most prominent theory and was close to accepted fact. The pony theory came in later but was trounced in episodes 5 and 6. In episode 6, people started to finally consider the possibility that the person Battler talked to was not Jessica or Beatrice disguised as Shannon. It was much more simple to say it was Shannon herself. Shkanon was pretty much killed with episode 5 with the English fanbase, mainly because they had seen screenshots of Erika, Shannon and Kanon together, as well as Battler, Shannon and Kanon together without knowing the full context of it all. Such as the important fact that those scenes are not narrated by the detective. Now that it's come back with a vengeance as Shkanontrice, there's more resistance to it than it ever was. Perhaps because people can accept 2 personalities, but not 3? That's something I've seen people saying, but it's rather stupid. Instead, they should look at it as "one person who has alternate personalities is enough" if a person has alternate personalities, it really is not unlikely that they have more than 1. That's just a medical fact.

Warning, new guy, please STOP READING THIS THREAD FROM NOW OWN, it's been hijacked.
>>5387688

It's not the fact that there could be more than one personality. It's the fact that Kanon is one of them. I'm perfectly alright with Shannontrice, and in fact it's EXTREMELY likely based on what I've translated. But I cannot accept Kanon not being a person.

>>5387687
The problem is you're accepting some characterization deeply but ignoring other characterization. The parts you ignore are the parts you call "foreshadowing in retrospect".

>>5387659
Actually reading episode 6 is what made the Shkanontrice theory in the Japanese fanbase. I'd argue that the adamant denial of it comes from people who haven't read it. So you're right that it'll change.

>>5387703
Kanon causes the Jessica paradox, yeah.
Which is rather unfortunate.

>>5387703
What about the duel where Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice are supposed to all be in the same situation? If Shannontrice is true, Kanon is just tacked on there.

>>5387707

Ignoring all of Jessica's, forced to accept her as a stupid moron who can't tell her boyfriend's actually her best female friend?

And talk about the Japanese fanbase all you want, it doesn't change the fact that it's extremely unlikely that Erika exists. I didn't wanna start this, but dammit, if there's one thing that Episode 6 has made very, very clear...it's that Erika is an illusion, an illusion of mystery, created to obscure the truth. The final Chapter of Episode 6 almost screams this at you.

>>5386803
>but I really, 100%, hate the art. It just looks.... Horrible.

People like you should not exist, and should not post here.

One or the other.

>>5387735
As for Jessica, I propose we table that for now.(I'm not the Shkanontrice dude).

I have a pretty good feeling episode 7 is going to be Jessica learning that her entire life is a lie. That'll be fun.

>>5387703
>I'm perfectly alright with Shannontrice
GET OUT WITCH HUNT DEV

In episode 3, Shannon describes a skill furniture should have - walking with absolute silence. Kanon can do it, he walks as quietly as a cat and makes even less sound than raindrops when he steps on puddles. Those are both descriptions of his footsteps in the games themselves, the cat one being used more than once. There's also another scene where Gohda approaches Shannon and Kanon, Kanon suddenly disappears and this is explained by the silence of his footsteps. Of course, magical furniture won't make footsteps. That's because they don't exist. Ange's 7 imaginary stake friends won't be heard or seen, Maria's Sakutarou will only be heard because she acts the voice of it. Are the furniture on the gameboard different, or does it follow the same concept? Because if it's the latter, it makes sense that Kanon makes no sound in those scenes, because the actual body is where Shannon is, and the appearance of Kanon is only in Shannon's mind and supported by Genji's mind - similar to how Beatrice tries to bury the Golden Land in Sakutarous, but they all can't be seen by Maria.

>>5387727

Kanon confronts Beatrice in every Episode but 4 and 5, doesn't he? If Shannon is Beatrice, it can work. I'm still working on the specifics, since I'm too busy actually translating the episode.

Oh, and in case people were worried, don't worry, I'm not putting my personal bias into it. If something sounds Shkanon-y, it goes in exactly as it says. One member of our circle likes Shkanon, after all.

>>5387735
LESBIANS

LESBIANS

HAPPY AND FREE IN THE SUMMER

LESBIANS

LESBIANS

WOMEN MAKING LOVE....

TO ONE ANOTHER!

>>5387767

...or Kanon just has light footsteps.

>>5387765
The main witch hunt translator is not only alright with Shannontrice, not only alright with Shkanontrice, but he's pretty much the lead authority on the theory.

>>5387735
Erika not existing in episodes 1-4 is true. Erika is going back to that nonexistence whether she wins or loses. "it's that Erika is an illusion, an illusion of mystery, created to obscure the truth" is a huge exaggeration. She does exist in 5 and 6. The "Erika doesn't exist" theory is the theory I've seen that contradicts the red in the most extreme fashion, and it requires some really questionable reasoning to pull off.

>>5387794

"I proclaim that Erika Furudo is the detective!"

Erika is a title.

Check.

>>5387807
Son of a bitch.

About Jessica, her characterization is weak. People hated her with a passion for the greater part of 5 episodes because she was such a lame, angsty character that nobody cared for except the obnoxious Jessitrice theorists. That really hasn't changed for 5 and 6, except the possibility that her character has a lot more depth regarding her relationship with Shannon and Kanon than originally thought. If it "ruins" her characterization, then it's not really anything lost. It's explaining why she seems like such a weak character compared to others.

>>5387807
...Wow.

>>5387743
People with taste?
I guess that explains the last two months of shitposting, people with sense are driven out.

>>5387794
>The "Erika doesn't exist" theory is the theory I've seen that contradicts the red in the most extreme fashion, and it requires some really questionable reasoning to pull off.

And Shkanontrice ignores character development for Jessica, established plot principles, and by necessity either makes everyone on the island utter morons or in on it.

So if we're going to argue what is the 'better theory', I'd rather Erika not existing be true.

Furthermore, there's TONS of loose ends introduced by Shkanon that haven't been forshadowed at all. For instance, why does Kanon even EXIST? Why was he born? For what purpose? It can't be Jessica, as he existed before the whole love thing started there.

So what?

>>5387794
He also thinks Nanjo is his own granddaughter. But I digress, I believe in Shkanontrice myself. I think Chrno is a pretentious jerk, though.

As for the Erika thing, I am rather torn.

I do think that if there exists a second Battler, it's Jessica, but I don't think Erika didn't exist in episode 6. Because my logic for Jessica being the second Battler relies on the red text being somewhat strict, and the same understanding makes it impossible for Erika not to exist as a person, and yet....

Erika talks about "herself" at the end, in such a manner that she seems to deny her own existence. She talks about accepting the truth of herself.....

But R07 said episode 6's truth is a skeleton key, and Shkanontrice is by and large mostly that.

>>5387707
How do you know which characterization is true or not?
A large part of all of this is what we assume said events imply about teh character.
Shaky foothold.

>>5387815

Yes nobody cares for Jessica and that's why she always is in the top 10 in the character polls.

Oh wait, the only people that don't care for Jessica are on /jp/.

>>5387807
Pretty weak check.
1. Erika can't be the title of the same person in episodes 5 and 6. That means that two people need to, for some reason, act in very similar manners. Erika's title in episode 6 makes the least sense since it would require somebody with no authority to somehow get the adult males of the Ushiromiya family to do what they want.
2. All names refer only to the actual people!
Now I know you're going to say "well Erika is a title, not a name so that works" but that's wrong considering:
>Therefore
Note the therefore. If you can say "X, therefore Y" in red, it means that Y is a logical and truthful extension of X, it does not offer any additional information in itself, it only serves as an explanation of X's consequences.
>Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
Erika is being taken as a name, referring to an actual person.

Now unless you try some weak reasoning like "sure, it's a name there, but it's a title in other pieces of red where I want it to be", check broken.

>>5387830

No people who can't get used to anything and complain how the art sucks and therefore won't give it a try.

It's stupid. Nobuyuki Fukumoto's artwork is continually called awful (he himself thinks it's bad) but his stories rock.

Some people don't even try visual novels at all cause they don't like reading. Maybe it's a stretch to compare it to that, but it makes me angry.

>>5387853
Jessica has some love here. I think she'll get more fans after episode six gets translated, though. In fact, there tends to be many clashes between Shkanontrice fans and Jessica fans, mostly because Jessica comes under fire one way or the other due to her closeness to the two.

>and by necessity either makes everyone on the island utter morons or in on it.
Perhaps the most long-chanted one-liner by the anti-Shkanon side, and the most false. How often does "everyone on the island" actually SEE both Shannon and Kanon? Kanon has worked on the island for three years. Most of the people on the island only come once a year, and only for one day because there isn't normally a typhoon. And that day is a very important time for them to be discussing family matters, not paying attention to two servants who might not even be on duty at the time. There are more than 5 servants working on Rokkenjima. And if one of them actually was there, what are the chances of the other one being there? What are the chances of them really seeing both of them for any reasonable amount of time to take notice of something like this? The answer is not "it requires them to be utter morons", by the way.

Shannon started working on the island 10 years ago, but Battler only met her 6 years ago. Ever thought about that? For 4 years she was working, and he didn't see her. Why? Because he comes to the island once a year and it's rare that she's on duty, and even rarer that she's on duty and meets with him, on that single day every year. The only ones who are actually required to be in on it are the same people who are in on hiding Kinzo's death.

>>5387840
Here we go again. The people who really hate Shkanontrice come out with the same one-line arguments every time. They try to win by brute force of repeating those lines again and again, when they KNOW their arguments have been denied.
>And Shkanontrice ignores character development for Jessica
No, it adds depth to her previously hated one-dimensional weak characterization.
>established plot principles
Heh, no. All established plot principals work with Shkanontrice. It is the most comprehensive theory regarding them when it comes down to it. If you want to say that, explain why you say that, without resorting to the one-line surface arguments that are based on the weakest reasoning.

So, just to entertain a little pet theory that doesn't involve the logic error: can anyone think of a good way for a corpse other than Kinzo's to avoid getting pinned in the cousin's room by Erika? Name shenanigans are the obvious solution, but I'm interested in other ideas.

Bonus points if you know whose corpse I'm talking about. And yes, I'm aware of the "corpses of introduced characters" red.

>>5387879
Hating the art is still a legitimate complaint.
If it sucks, it sucks.
At least Fukumoto's seems more like an exaggerated cartoon(them noses) then deformed blobs.

>>5387857
Please be aware that the Japanese for "the actual people" in this context means "the people themselves", not "real people".

>>5387921
It adds depth to Jessica, but it also presents a new mystery.

Mainly, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE GIRLS?

To which I say: I dunno lol.

>>5387966
>WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE GIRLS?
The problem is they're female of course.

>>5387945
This doesn't change that Erika is a name, that refers to the "actual person". Trying to assign Erika as a title to anyone it's convenient in episode 5 (eg, Eva) and anyone it's convenient in episode 6 (I don't even know) is equal to Erika's attempted assignment of George's name to Kanon to try and work around the room.

>>5387976
Meta Erika is a person. Is there a problem with it referring to her?

>>5387993
How could Meta-Erika have "'sealed' the room by connecting the sections of the severed chain using her duct tape. In short, she used the seals to repair the chain, and used that to make a closed room again from the inside."

This is the kind of weak reasoning the "Erika doesn't exist" theory needs. It's far from highly likely.

>>5387879
I've played all the Umineko and Higurashi games out and I still say the art sucks. The anime art also sucks too. You're just fanboy raging.

>>5388002
Meta Erika has a piece that she controls to do things, just like Battler and Beatrice have pieces.

>>5388017
Like I said, this is the kind of weak reasoning the theory needs. You're not going to have to pull huge stretches of having important red refer to Meta-world characters conveniently for other theories.

>>5388020
Weak reasoning as opposed to "a personality went into a closet and died for no reason"?

Everyone says the art is shit, and everyone just gets used to it becasue even though it's shit, there's a lot of attention payed to the poses and expressions and it fits the dialogue quite well. Basically, you'll forget about the art because you'll be immersed in the story and audio track.

Higurashi's art is absolutely horrid, ESPECIALLY that fucking Irie piece, jesus christ

After looking at the Higurashi sprites, I can safely say I like his Umineko work ALOT more, I wish he kept the shading style he used for the hair though

Also his Hanyuu is the best art he's ever done

Also, in what way does "Erika" being a title preserve characterization? I can only see it working if the place the person "Erika" really is in episode 6 is the "everyone else" room. Either Rudolf killed his wife and everyone else's and Maria too, or Krauss did, or Jessica killed her mother and all the others mothers and her cousin, and so on. Unless one of your favorite culprits is Rudolf, who is the one I see this being the most likely for, it's "ruining" characterization too.

I still believe Krauss is the culprit, or at least one of them, It's a hunch but I just KNOW he has to be one

>>5388050
Unless Battler implicitly excluded Erika's piece from the location check, she must be someone in the neighboring room. Hideyoshi was excluded as the murderer earlier in the game, so that leaves George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo.

>>5388065
Incidentally, Rudolf, Krauss, and Gohda were also excluded as the murderer.

>>5388032
1. Kanon was going to the room to change into Shannon.
2. Kanon's rescuing of Battler was actually intended and not accidental, and somewhere on the way or during this confrontation, the Battler couple won on the gameboard, so Shannon and Kanon both had no purpose.
3. The duel we see is a metaphor for the internal struggle of the three personalities, Shannon being the victor kills both Beatrice and Kanon (or, rather than kills, absorbs them back into a dominant personality, so that Kanon "does not exist").

Also, if Shkanontrice is true, the hint that a personality can "die" in some way is hardly new. Kanon's purpose is to peruse a possible love with Jessica. Without Jessica, there is no need for Kanon to exist. In episode 2, Kanon dies right when Jessica does, but leaves no corpse. In episode 4, Kanon dies right after Jessica would have (he is the 9th victim, the only victim to be given a number. The first two twilights is 8 people, so he dies right after Jessica, the second victim of the 2nd twilight and therefore the 8th victim. Jessica knew of George's death so she "died" after him). Again, his corpse is not found. His corpse is the only one not found.

>>5388065
How can he be someone in the neighboring room? If Erika was excluded, then it doesn't make sense of the five who were actually named in there to be included. In only makes sense for the "everyone else" to not including someone we would usually think it would, because Erika is excluded and that person is Erika.

>>5388065
In episode 1, Kumasawa and Nanjo are both not killers. So unless they suddenly became capable of mass-murder in this game, a difficult task for two elderly people, that leaves Shannon, Hideyoshi and George.

>>5388082
1. Does not explain why he felt the need to do so in Battler's guest room instead of one that didn't have somebody searching it.
2. It is impossible for Kanon to intentionally come rescue Battler, because there is no way for him to know that Battler needs rescuing (the chain not having been repaired until Erika entered the room). Also, "rescuing" Battler by switching places with him serves no purpose because someone will still be caught in the closet.
3. Again, why were they having this duel in a closet while somebody else searched the room?

>>5388098
Sorry, it leaves Shannon and George. I generally don't pay attention to the four being excluded as murders because unless Erika is another person on the island, it isn't relevant, since we know who the murder is anyway.

>>5388091
That's my point, Erika('s piece) wasn't excluded, it was already named as part of the group in the neighboring room. There was no need to list her twice. This explanation has the benefit of not needing to assume that Battler excluded someone when he never said he would.

>>5388111
Why has Kanon come to the closet at all? You would think he would have stayed in his designated room. The room with a sealed window and door you should think he can't escape from. How does the Erika theory here explain his escape, anyway?

About the "duel", we don't know how long it would take or when it would start, only that it ended at some point while in the room.

>>5388127
That does make sense. It always bothered me how Erika was excluded but wasn't said to be. However, there's no violation of trust if he leaves out where Erika is, since she knows. The ability for things to be left out without being So even if we have the Erika theory being true, haven't we already shown that one of two people must be a brutal murderer, already? It's too convenient.

>>5388132
I mean why would he come to the room at all.

>>5388132
Erika theory is almost always paired with Kanon = Kinzo's heir, so that when Battler lured Erika into letting him exclude Kinzo's body from the location check earlier, he freed Kanon as well.

Kanon was never confirmed to have entered the closet, and Battler was never confirmed to have been hiding from Erika. Everyone's behavior can be explained if all three people had met there openly in order to set up the second twilight. This includes the duct taped chain lock, which is otherwise completely inexplicable from a piece perspective.

>>5388147
We're supposed to be getting closed to the truth at this point. "There are no longer hints, but confessions."

>>5388155
I forgot about that. So this theory also takes "Kinzo" as a title and applies it to Kanon so the exclusion of Kinzo excludes him as well. It's really far too convenient.

This creates two possible groups meeting for a second twilight. Shannon, Kanon and Battler or George, Shannon and Battler. Battler wouldn't be aware one of the three have actually gone and killed the other five for real. Kanon may or may not be aware. But Shannon or George killed 6 people.

>>5388175
And that's the same reason I say the whole duel situation is us being clearly told that Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice are all the same person. Not to mention that we have Beatrice's creator being a female Battler knew 6 years ago who was not Jessica, pointing to Shannon again.

>>5387767
Kanon's quiet footsteps description is followed by "Genji also had that ability." Thus it's not really a trait particular to him and therefore is probably simple description of how quietly he ran.

>>5388182
Rather than a title, it can simply be his real name. If you think about it, after all that mystery was built up about his real name, isn't "Yoshiya" a bizarre anticlimax? Also, Battler's "Kinzo's name was inherited" theory from EP4 has never actually been denied by anyone.

>>5388182
>Shannon, Kanon and Battler or George, Shannon and Battler.
The second option should be George, Kanon, and Battler. Kanon's presence is required by the red.

>>5388239

In fact, there's foreshadowing for it as well. "Having the heads ring makes you qualified to stand in for Kinzo", etc.

>>5388270

Er, and it's a very common theory that Kanon has Kinzo's ring, that is.

>>5388239
It was never actually denied, but for the most part, his episode 4 reasoning is wrong. For instance, his explanation for the 6 closed rooms is never denied, but there's the more simple explanation that the boiler room has a second door with no lock attached.

>>5388218
Genji has the ability, but this could be a reference to the soon appearing Ronove who Genji first has to call out to for Shannon and Kanon to see. Furthermore, later in the episode, we learn that Kanon gets his silence from Ronove's ability. Genji is described to have that ability once, but for Kanon it's a frequent occurrence.

>>5388239
The theory still leads to a bizarre anticlimax. We already can kick and choose from two people, one of them killed the four mothers and Maria, the other one (Kanon) was plotting with them. Without any shocking reveal, we know this. If it's Shannon, then Beatrice is working with Kinzo, which has always been contrary to what we've known, with Kinzo and Beatrice both holding different colors on the roulette. And it confuses the situation where Kanon is the zero as well.

>>5388279
There's also various foreshadowing that Kanon and Kinzo were close to each other, like the scene where Kinzo offered him candy. Not to mention his monologue in EP6 where he talks about helping Kinzo with pranks and being allowed to shoot Kinzo's prized rifles.

>>5388300

I'd love to know how this is possible with Shkanon.

Did he take Shannon (who is Beatrice) out hunting with him? What?
Also I should point out to the people saying that 'it's an infrequent occurence that Kanon and Shannon are on the island together' that they both LIVE on the island, btw.

>>5388291
>For instance, his explanation for the 6 closed rooms is never denied
It was denied by the red that "all keys related to the closed rooms were closed up in those rooms." However, note that Lambda only said that MOST of his reasoning was wrong. By stopping at EP2, she deliberately left the impression that all of his EP3 and EP4 theories were wrong, even though they weren't.

>the other one (Kanon) was plotting with them
Actually this theory would tend to prove him innocent. He can be helping with the fake death masquerade without actually being involved in the real murders.

>>5388300
>>5388334
This theory does have some weight to it. Kinzo might have even suggested Kanon should try the epitaph because he was raised to be his successor since his children and grandchildren were viewed as incompetent, while Shannon might have been raised to be Beatrice.

>>5388360
Come to think of it, the game should be solvable even without Lambda's red from EP4, because Battler never actually saw any of it. The whole ura tea party was a performance for Bern's benefit.

>>5388363
>while Shannon might have been raised to be Beatrice.

But Kinzo wasn't successful at doing so, was he? At many times, he finds Shannon to be more nuisance than anything else. And then this mysterious girl, presumably Shannon or Sayo, finally accomplishes what Kinzo was unable to do and creates or provides "Beatrice" with a soul/form. But I can't ignore Shannon's presence on the island as a servant at the young age of six.

>>5388363
If Shannon and Kanon were both adopted by Kinzo, it would also explain why they both lived on the island and worked as servants for an abnormally long time. Their references to "Father" in EP6 would make sense too.

Oh, and Featherine said that Battler didn't want to make his family look like murderers. Shannon would be part of his family by this theory, wouldn't she...?

>>5388444
The scene where Beatrice refers to Kinzo as grandfather also makes sense. But Battler would need to show more than just Shannon as a murderer. After all in episode 3 Kyrie or Hideyoshi perhaps did some killing.

>>5388472
Yeah, there's some chain reaction murders to account for. Different wounds in EP1 would tend to suggest Kanon shot Natsuhi too.

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Hey, this is me again, the translator from earlier. I haven't posted since >>5387807 since I had to go do stuff, but I read the thread and it feels pretty interesting. I like where it's going.

Is there still a need for me to lay out my justification for "Erika is a title"? I can address pretty clearly a few of those concerns, but I dunno if the discussion is even about that anymore...