/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I read a lot and I enjoy VNs.

... Is.. Is the thread over?

August 1914 was the first visual novel.

>>534610

>>534609

Which did you start first?

>>534615
Actual books.

>>534619

Like?

I read a fucking lot and enjoy VNs too.

>>534623
Harry Potter.

>>534630

Underage b&

>>534630

And this is supposed to lend weight to your case?

>>534613
The windmill has caught fire!
The mill is burning!
The fire is easily visible in a direct line of sight above the parados of the trench, except that the view is blurred by the smoke of exploding shells, dust, and lumps of earth.
The hilltop shudders under the infernal shock and noise of the bombardment.

So that the mill
burns in silence. It has not been destroyed by shells, but
is completely in the grip of fire.
Crimson tongues are licking at the planking of its pyramid-shaped base,
flickering wild, scarlet.
The arms are motionless.
The fire soon runs up the lower blades and spreads from the boss along the upper blades.

Now the entire mill is burning! The whole building!

>>534623
On Grammatology.

I read a lot of books, and I love VNs. But it probably doesn't count, because the stuff I read isn't pretentious enough. It's not Harry Potter, but it's not all Paradise Lost either. I don't care, I like reading my fantasy/sci fi novels, so I read them. But man, literary elitists are the worst elitists of all. Give me an anime elitist any day.

You may not have been lurking just exactly when there were discussions related to this, once in /a/ a long long time ago, then here significantly less time ago.

The point in these discussions was that there was an anon (me) who does like VNs but finds the quality of their writing somewhat lacking. I was asking for real books, actual stuff that has been produced by skilled writers and passed through proficient editors, that might capture the "romantic pathos while still being entertaining", as another anon put it.

In other words, the stories in VNs like Kana or Planetarian touch stuff you don't really find written anywhere else. Or even say, like in Yume Miru Kusuri, might do, but they're ruined with moralism or realism (yes, a bit of fantasy is lovely) that doesn't need to be there. However, we all know VNs usually are not written or translated very well, the reason they're likable is because they put the reader in a situation he can relate to and offer some tailor-made fantasy for the geek crowd that wouldn't go by regular book publishing companies.

The offer still stands. Give me a real, well-written book with the heartful spirit and healthy escapism of a good VN, and endless amounts of internets will be yours.

>>534650

The fact you somehow made an N into an F sort of makes that claim a bit hazy.

Most people who really read lots of books do so in order to fuel their own self image of being more educated than, and being somewhat beyond, the typical masses. Not the same types of person who plays VNs really.

>>534666

Most people who really play lots of vns do so in order to fuel their own self image of being more important, and being somewhat beyond, what they really are. Not the same types of person who reads books really.

>>534657
They're called "romance novels" and they usually have their own section in book shops like science-fiction does.

>>534666

Actually, that's a direct analogue to those people who've played every obscure VN in existance, all for the sake of being more weeaboo than weeaboo.

>>534662
Yeah, but so is every one of Derrida's claims about language carrying its own historicity.

I don't read books anymore.

It's funny when people say "Your brain will rot if you don't read!"

I'm reading right the fuck now. VNs included.

>>534657

>The point in these discussions was that there was an anon (me) who does like VNs but finds the quality of their writing somewhat lacking. I was asking for real books, actual stuff that has been produced by skilled writers and passed through proficient editors, that might capture the "romantic pathos while still being entertaining", as another anon put it.

You've pretty much summed up my feelings to VNs as a whole. I get bored because of the generally faulty translations and overall less well presented material.


Honestly, I'd prefer if they didn't shove you into romantic settings at all. There are more ways than that to pull heartstrings.

I was pretty moved when Ned Stark got executed in A Game of Thrones for example. No real romantic ties.

I'm into french literature, right now I'm reading "Les Ombres errantes", it's pretty good.
I also enjoy fantasy/sci fi novels and I'm eagerly waiting for A dance with Dragons like pretty much everyone else.

And yes I enjoy VNs greatly, I've finished Clannad recently and it was great.

>>534666 Most people who really read lots of books do so in order to fuel their own self image of being more educated than, and being somewhat beyond, the typical masses. Not the same types of person who plays VNs really.

Illusion caused by never reading an actual good book out of personal volition.

There's stuff between tedious, pretentious bullshit (hello literature classes) and overly simplistic but entertaining run-of-the-mill -bestsellers (hello Dan Brown and Harry Potter).

I'm >>534657, there's people who do live books for entertainment. Being entertaining does not equal being stupid, as people who have read VNs I'm sure we can all agree on that.

>>534702

Well played

>>534690
And your point is, "your brain will rot even if you do read"?

I work at a bookstore. I read a lot of books. Pic related.

But I also play VNs.

...that state where, though still visible, young girls appear as though seen through glass and where even the voice cannot reach them; where they exist(...) in a pearly lambence without shadows and themselves partaking of it; in nebulous suspension held, strange and unpredictable, even their very shapes fluid and delicate and without substance; not in themselves floating and seeking but merely waiting, parasitic and potent and serene, drawing to themselves without effort the post-genitive upon and about which to shape, flow into back, breast; bosom flank thigh.

You damned pedophile(one could say ephebophile too)

>>534703
Spoilers: The oxygen itself is killing your body and sustaining it at the same time.

I'd read a lot more if I lived in a town with a library. Books are not free, VNs are.

>>534718
Actually, 4chan rots your brain. And it rots your morals, your dignity, and just about everything else you have.

>>534657

Well, where am I supposed to go from here? I tried some of the most generally overhyped ones, Tsukihime, Ever17, and F/SN and found myself picking at all the fragments and inconsistencies, and overall got very bored. F/SN I never even finished because it bored me so much, and there are only about 6 games I have EVER played that I did not finish, because I'm a completionistfag.


Am I really just too pretentious to enjoy any of these?

>>534743

I suppose if you're a dipshit kid who takes the internet too seriously, but surprise; there are actual adults on this site.

>>534718
Aren't there genetic remnants in our cells that go back to before the dinosaurs to when hydrogen-sulfide was a primary atmopsphere comp[onent?

>>534680 They're called "romance novels" and they usually have their own section in book shops like science-fiction does.

You might not believe this, but I've actually tried that. It failed.

The problem with romance novels is that they're a different kind of shit altogether, they're made for women and include a fantasy-of-sorts that doesn't go with the VN audience. I'm not talking about the harem endings or the little sister maid schoolgirls, rather that the basic Harlequin bullshit is just a rehash of the "strong, independent woman who finds the man of his dreams".

The one good thing in VNs is that... they actually TRY something sometimes. Even if the writers aren't the kind of guys that'll be remembered decades from now in english classes, some of them (at least the writers of the VNs that are popular here) actually truly attempt to create something besides a cheap transistion to the following porn scene.

Confession time. I didn't like Tsukihime. I found the style annoying and never finished it, even after trying twice. But I'd be damned if I claimed Nasu wasn't ambitious.

>>534601
I read some 80 novels last year, and roughly fourty VNs.
Am I a /lit/fag yet, /jp/?

Basically because VNs are a great medium to transmit a touching story (I've cried buckets while playing VNs, but not a single tear with a normal book), but the writing is fucking ugly most of the time (minus, maybe, BlackCyc games. Gore Screaming Show, fuck yes), and I'm a sucker for style.

By the way, read China Mieville's books. Start with Perdido Street Station, then move on to The Scar. They are orgasmic.

A little extract from The Scar, chapter 36.
>Every motion Doul makes is perfect: flawless and straight-lined. There is no excess; there are no curves.

>The men around him are beginning to scream, but they are pushed on by the force of their fellows behind. They move sluggishly toward Doul, who is in the air, his legs bent under him, turning amid a pattering of bullets. He fires with new guns and hurls them away into the faces of more enemies, then lets his feet touch down again. He has a last pistol in his hand and is moving it from face to cringing face, firing, leaping, and throwing it aside, kicking out with bent legs, a stampfighting move, breaking a cactus-man’s nose and pushing him back into the bodies of his Crobuzoner comrades.

>Bellis watches, breathing hard, unmoving. Everywhere else the fighting is ugly: contingent and chaotic and stupid. She is aghast that Doul can make it beautiful.

>>534743
Morals, dignity. Who needs them? Now, if you'll excuse me I'm in the middle of playing Kodomo Milk Parfait at work.

Books are fucking boring shit because I have no imagination.

When I began in VNs, though vague, but nevertheless - I had somewhat of a goal to work towards to stomach the wall of text. It's so rewarding to finally be able to see those pair of tits whom I always knew was a huge slut, but played "hard" tsundere, maybe "innocent" moeblob, or perhaps one of those crazy yanderes, and even royalty where I get to plunge it in their prideful anuses... which all have their unique appeal. And once your dick stops throbbing and you realize that you're not getting to the porn that easily, you start functioning with your brain a little more. The part of the brain which lets you enjoy the VN for what it all offers...
And at the end of it all, I can be proud of myself to have read so much, you know? You'd also have picked up a taste for actually enjoying the VN itself, rather than the porn, but it still cheers you on to keep going.

So what the hell do I get with "books?"

All interpretations, everything imaginable up to me and my tasteless mind. And imaginary porn (at most, if it all). No sound, nothing to look at besides a wall of fucking text until the very last page, having to to flip pages and change position so your neck or back doesn't start to be a bitch after a while sucks ass. Fuck books.

>>534743
No, that's republicans. Bush is on his way out, so people are becoming nicer. I've noticed that a America mimics it's leaders, so that's why fewer people are as interested in /d/ as there used to be.

>>534749
Narcissu and Planetarian are pretty well written, read these.

Also I don't think you are being too picky, Tsukihime and FSN really are pretty badly written and FSN is particularly bland while Ever17, apart of the shitty translation, really ask you to turn your brain off to enjoy the plot without picking all the inconsistencies.

I read all the time, never played a VN before though.

Preferred genres are Science Fiction, Dystopia, Steampunk, Mystery, Fantasy

＝　Our men are falling! Falling, dropping their rifles . . .
　　What's happening? One rifle with its bayonet thrust
　　into the ground, the butt swaying, swaying.
＝　Grokholets, with his bald head, runs forwants desperately.
　　Has he been hit? No, he's still running.
＝　Ahead of them all is the tall Pervushvin.
　　His face turned grimly around
to his own men,
　　moustache brsitling,
　　waving a rifle with fixed bayonet!
　　He stumbles on an unseen trip wire.
＝　Out of the corner of a slit trench there
　　comes toward him
　　a strapping German,
　　who bayonets him—

It's simple economics. The opportunity cost of reading VNs is higher for those who read a lot of novels to begin with, because obviously you can't read two things at the same time just as fast. And given just how long some VNs are and how poorly written they are compared to most decent novels, it's not at all surprising that people who tend to read a lot also don't find VNs to be appealing.

I have a couple of old stuff lying around... stuff I still need to finish:

Life of Galilei by Brecht
The Castle and America by Kafka
The Divine Comedy by Dante
King Lear by Shakespeare

>>534772

Fuck you. I know you're a troll, but that's just unspeakably retarded. If anyone really needed a "reward" for reading, then they're just fucking poodles to jump through hoops. Porn doesn't make vns better, in fact, I can't be arsed dealing with the fucking ero scenes in any I've played, because they're all shit compared to the stuff I actually HAVE.

>>534777

Thanks. :\

>>534772
You don't have to flip pages. Every book worth reading is already online.

Most of what I read is nonfiction, mostly things on philosophy, politics, and economics. I've never been able to enjoy written narrative as much without all the pretty pictures and music. Honestly, reading literature doesn't make you intelligent. To some it might make you tasteful, but I think (as most people would) anyone who values such a designation too much is rather pretentious. Though the only literature I've ever read was assigned in classes or written by Nabokov, so I might be missing something.

>>534801

Pynchonfag here. I think the only VNs I've ever played that really stuck with me were Planetarian and Yume Miru Kusuri.

You said you'd tried YMK? I guess I just approach VNs looking for something different than I take from books, I cried bitch-tears over Aeka.

>>534807

>Though the only literature I've ever read was assigned in classes or written by Nabokov, so I might be missing something.

>>534781
Steampunk. A good genera, but lacking in content.

I read all the time, and i enjoy it. I like manga and comics and stuff but theirs just something about being able to picture your own versions of the stories that gets me. Sometimes I forget i am even readinga book. There are authors out their who are so vivid with their text that i almost feel like i'm watching a movie, not reading a book. Those are the books i like best.

>>534797 And given just how long some VNs are and how poorly written they are compared to most decent novels, it's not at all surprising that people who tend to read a lot also don't find VNs to be appealing.

But the problem is, we DO. Just not in the technicalities, in their tone. We're goddamn anonymous anyway, we like our escapism and porn.

>>534657 The offer still stands. Give me a real, well-written book with the heartful spirit and healthy escapism of a good VN, and endless amounts of internets will be yours.

This is fucking bullshit, the third time I've asked this question and still nothing.

I'll see to that there's one before I die even if I have to goddamn write it myself. The problem, I believe, is that if I really could write, I'd have done it already.

>>534809

Well what am I supposed to expect?

Presentation wise, I've not seen anything that's on par with say, the destruction of Kharak from Homeworld, or the ending of Shadow of the Colossus, etc.

Heck, even that lone resistance member, Winston, in Half Life 2, and his death, had a much bigger effect on me than any of these things do.

And this is only speaking in terms of GAMES.

>>534601
That would apply to me. I usually skip to the sex scenes. Reading is probably my favorite thing to do.

>>534821
GB2 comicbooks, and stop expecting us to know you well enough to pick good books for you.

>>534825
>Kharak from Homeworld, or the ending of Shadow of the Colossus
>Half-Life 2

>>534825
Don't expect anything from YMK, it's entertaining but not very interesting or thought provoking.

Planetarian though is quite good, it's short but it manages to develop a pretty a world and a pretty interesting thematic.
I don't know if it will touch you but it's worth a try.
Also play Narcissu.

When I don't have access to a computer, I go on a book reading spree, that hardly ever happens however.

And i do enjoy VNs.

I find it very difficult to read good literature for pleasure. I'm a graduate student, so I'm constantly reading discipline-specific stuff all day. Trying to really focus on more words at the end of the day is generally not that fun.

VNs are a good balance between mindless entertainment and a mentally stimulating leisure activity.

I started reading more books(mostly crusty genre fiction though) for entertainment after many years of playing eroges.

I found it that to an extent, eroges appeal to me(as a 20something) more audience wise, simply because the main audience of modern fiction is 30-50 year olds.

Besides current eroges are more about mimicking anime motifs rather than being well written literal prose.

>>534844
>>to develop a world
Fixed, fuck I need to sleep.

>>534843

Someone enlighten me to what this face is supposed to indicate.

>>534857
Its supposed to mock you.

>>534867

For what? Liking good games?

>>534867
>Its
One of the rare cases where someone forgets the apostrophe, as opposed to needlessly adding it.

>>534857

read a bunch of books. Eventually you'll find one you like. We don't know you, faggot. Picking a book for you is impossible. Maybe you could write a gay romance and open up a new feild.

>>534875
Non-existant character whose name I can't remember in Tsukihime?

>>534874
DAMNIT ANON.

>>534657
The best example I can think of is the His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman. Written for children, but doesn't assume the kids are retarded like most children's novels do. Certainly far superior to the Harry Potter series. The religious elements might make you rage if you're the type who rages at Evangelion, but it's at least competently plotted instead of random symbolism. The emotional parts have very strong impact without feeling too sentimental.

>>534885

I liked Northern Lights

I found the rest of the series extremely contrived in Pullman's own antichristian ideals, to such a great degree of distaste (I'm an Agnostic if that matters) that left me with a sour aftertaste.

I read a LOT of Tom Clancy, Robin Cook, Stephen King, and Micheal Crichton. Along with the classics, ie Tolkien, Iliad/Oddessey etc.

And I like VN's.

>>534898

>Tom Clancy
>Stephen King

>>534873 For what? Liking good games?

I think it's referring to Homeworld or Half-Life 2. Shadow of the Colossus we can probably all agree to be breathtaking in any case.

Not that you didn't have a point. Nothing has moved me like games have. In the end, it's about the experience, and adding a form of interactivity (even a mock-up) does all the wonders on drawing the audience in.

Say that the ending of Ico or Planescape Torment or Odin Sphere didn't blow your socks off and you're lying. It's not neccessarily that they were the best art ever, but rather the combined effect of good writing and personal effort.

>>534898
How can you go back to those guys after the classics??

>>534907

What's wrong with Homeworld or Half Life 2?

ICO and Planescape Torment did get me hard, yeah, same for the ending of Metal Gear Solid 3. Fuck, that was so moving I completely forgave all the ridiculous shit with The Cobras.

>>534920

Not weeaboo enough for this board, srsly.

>>534906
Anon, just because you can't read, and your a mexican border runner, doesnt mean your opinion matters.
Also, forgot your sage newfag.

>>534920
THE PEDOPHILIA!!!!!!!!!!!

>>534920
WHERE'S MY HOMEWORLD ANIME?

>>534897
The Subtle Knife was my favorite, and I liked the anti-organized religion themes.

>>534928

No, they just suck.

I don't even know how anyone can go back to those after the classics. :|

I read normal literature as well as visual novels, though most of the stuff I read is classic literature, or dystopian books.

>>534920 What's wrong with Homeworld or Half Life 2?

I know nothing of Homeworld, but I found Half-Life and sequels empty and pointless in the story department. It's intentionally built in the way as to make the experiences of Gordon Freeman and the player be one, but at the same time, there's no real writing besides the dialogue from the NPCs. It's decent, it's entertaining, but then what?

Did nothing for me. Finished the tube shooter once, then never returned to it.

>>534843

ITT: Tasteless faggots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJvYZXUT5Bk

>>534898
>Tom Clancy
>Stephen King
>Tolkien

Get the fuck out from my /jp/. I can forgive Clancy and King (as long as it's the Dark Tower heptology), but fucking Tolkien?
Read Epic Pooh, then realize how shitty his writing is as far as style goes.
Then read something worth your time. Or read Lovecraft, because even if you were a complete fag, reading Lovecraft at least removes you from being a total literary fuckup with no taste.

>>534950
Half-life 2 was empty storywise. Now Half-Life 1, I think that had some decent story.

>>534933
Haruhi.

>>534950

I'm not saying the story in Half Life 2 was good.

I'm saying the PRESENTATION was good, and that's what had an effect on me. I found it immersive and that's what made me care.

>>534953
tasteless isn't a faggot, faggot

>>534961
Haruhi didn't look much like Homeworld, to me.

And don't say the ship battle, because that was just not the same. At all.

>>534950

>there's no real writing besides the dialogue from the NPCs

I think you missed the point of the game.

>>534958
you have not the damndest clue what you're talking about lol.

>>534906

Why would you single out Stephen King and leave Michael Crichton alone? Admittedly I haven't actually READ any of his books, but fuck, no one who wrote the book version of Shawshank deserves to be up there with Tom Clancy, you fuck.

>>534994

Because I haven't read anything by Michael.

King I have, and he's utter shit. ANd he didn't do the movie justice at all.

I read sporadically, but when I do it's normally in 5+ hour blocks. I've been meaning to finish the book I'm currently on for a few weeks now but I always procrastinate and never get around to actually picking it up, it's a shame as I'm rather enjoying it.

It also seem to have a problem where even though I've read and comprehended a passage fine, I'll go back 3-5 lines and reread the whole section. Quite annoying.

>>534953

lol

>>Why would you single out Stephen King and leave Michael Crichton alone? Admittedly I haven't actually READ any of his books, but fuck, no one who wrote the book version of The Running Man deserves to be up there with Tom Clancy, you fuck.
fixed

>>534994
I don't get it either. Compared to the mistake of equating Tolkien with Homer it's not even worth noticing.

The thing is that the VNs available in english are few in number and the good ones even more.
There's some very well written VNs out there, stuffs like Swan Song, Saya, Cross Channel or Forest were breathtaking but sadly they are only available in Japanese.

In english Phantom of Inferno, Narcissu and Planetarian are pretty well written and really immersive, Clannad too but the only version available right now is a beta patch riddled with typos and mistranslations.

But nothing will ever compare with the catcher in the Rye... Okay it's just my idiotic personal preference.

Not much of a book buff myself, but there were only a few book series I actually got into and thoroughly enjoyed, such as Dark Tower, The Myst, and Honor Harrington series. I've decided to get into college soon so I'll probably need some new material to keep myself occupied in my spare time. Anyone have good recommendations?

reads like a VN.

I prefer VNs to books because I also lack much imagination. The pictures and (sometimes) voice makes VNs the perfect hybrid between book,movie, and game. I get an amazing story, H-scenes to satisfy the perverted half of me, voices and scenes, as well as retaining the power to control the storyline (In what ever little way) through my won hands. I don't necessarily like books but that doesn't really make them worse in anyway.

For example: Imo KnK is some of Nasu's greatest work though the fact that i get a more solid image of the characters due to the upcoming movies may help.

I mostly read political science and philosophy books as well as sci-fi/fantasy novels...and I play visual novels.

>>535038
whose equating tolkien to homer? They are both considered classics.

>>535102
I would also like to add that litfags are worse than narutards and other general shonenfags.

Just because you enjoy picking through allegories, similes, metaphors and other useless garbage doesn't make your novel any better.

>>535133
>classics

One is a classic, the other is classical.

>>535139
both are required reads for many highschools. thats classic enough for me.

lol this thread is full of fail.
i've been reading copious amounts of books since before vn's existed, and i enjoy vn's.

back to school underageb&wagon.

>>534994
up there with Tom Clancy?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

>>535167
i lol'd too.

>>535180
iRAGED