/jp/ - Otaku Culture

This is how babies learn languages.
You are dumber than a baby.

Can someone replace the coffee thing with "I'm going to rape you."

Thanks.

>>5008457

What? Babies have language by birth they just can't speak yet.

>>5008444
What have you been doing exactly? You're also supposed to immerse yourself meaning reading/watching lots of Japanese.

>>5008457
Thing people are forgetting is that it takes ages for a baby to learn to talk fluently. And in the specific case of Japanese, they won't have learned all the necessary kanji before high school. Do you really want it to take that long before you learn to read yourself?

Oh, and this is completely disregarding that the ability to acquire a language this way is primarily an ability you have at a very young age. A person who wasn't able to acquire some a native language early enough will be faced with great challenges later in life when trying to learn to speak, since you lose a lot of this ability.

Another example, think of any immigrants you've met who has lived in your country for years, but still don't speak the language very well. Clearly the 24/7 immersion wasn't that effective for them, right?

>>5008452

>>5008512

Exactly. The thing is you see weeaboos phrasing AJATT everywhere but no one criticizes it. It's just an illusion for weeaboos who want to learn their moonspeak fast.

>>5008485
source?

>>5008527
>phrasing
You meant praising?
I've never even heard of AJATT, to be honest.

>>5008512
Oh, and regarding how you have to learn a language..

Thing is, some people preach just a lot of immersion, and some people preach just a lot of study. Both are bullshitting you. You need to do both. Just studying.. Well, if you've read AJATT's blog, you will know how that works. And just immersing yourself will take ages before you reach any tolerable level. You have to balance the two, find the advantages of both and use them as best as you can. Study grammar, but focus on being able to actually understand it, rather than reciting grammar rules and conjugations. Use flashcards with words on them, but also understand them in context, and look for them when you are reading something yourself. Grind kanji individually, but also see what kind of compounds and sentences they are used in.

Being able to study should be seen as an advantage that you have over kids. Effective studying will teach you much faster than kids learn to speak properly.

>>5008544
New 'Uroboros' doujinshi.

>>5008512
Those immigrants do not care about immerse themselves in the language. They are socially isolating themselves and they are often from a poor academic
backgrounds.

>>5008512
Babies don't learn by reading. They don't even know what a language even is. Babies also lack the cognitive skills of an adult. Losing the ability to learn another language is a myth and has been debunked for a long time. Babies have no advantages in language acquisition whatsoever.

Also, immigrants are often forced to speak as quickly as possible. They have no time to learn languages correctly an no one bothers to correct them. You can't compare that to someone sitting in his home doing learning in his free time.

>>5008527
Some criticize it, but few explain exactly why. And it's not like it doesn't have its points. Many people underestimate how important it is to actually use the language. You just have to take it all with a grain of salt. I mean, it's a guy presenting some pretty ambitious arguments about the best way to learn Japanese, and he doesn't have much ethos or logos to support it all. He's a crazy guy ranting on some internet blog, basically, and that's what you should treat him as. He might have a few gems once in a while, but it's not gospel.

>>5008593
Exactly.
He actually often points it himself that he's just writing about what worked for him personally and that you should just pick up what sounds reasonable to you without following everything to the letter.

>>5008593

I dunno. He's now getting people to buy his shit.

>>5008571
>Babies don't learn by reading. They don't even know what a language even is. Babies also lack the cognitive skills of an adult.
I don't really see how that contradicts anything I said.
>Losing the ability to learn another language is a myth and has been debunked for a long time. Babies have no advantages in language acquisition whatsoever.
Well, the information I have is that it's vital for people to learn a native language early, but I might have misinterpreted that, as it could simply be because language is important for cognitive development. Let's just disregard that, and say that babies have the advantage of hearing the language they're "trying to learn" at all times, for free, and won't get sick of not being able to understand anything. For an adult, spending months or years in this state is extremely troublesome.

Anyone got any good suggestions for textbooks or books in general that will help make sense of Japanese grammar?
I've been trying to learn Japanese for awhile now but this grammar just keeps kicking my ass.

>>5008681
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

>>5008681

Dude, there is no such thing as grammar. Just words arranged in a certain way that makes sense to those people. Just read books in the language and you'll pick it up.

>>5008681
I have a copy of an Oxford Japanese grammar book and it's pretty good.

Of course there's no need to buy any books since everything's on the Internet nowadays, but I personally prefer paper over screen when it comes to stuff like this.

>>5008716
I approached Japanese with this philosophy, and it didn't work at all. Way too much things that didn't make sense to me no matter what. Just read the fucking grammar, it's not very exciting, but it will make it far less painful to try reading Japanese later.

>>5008716
I guess but が keeps throwing me off when I see it it some titles and I can't translate it properly.

>>5008731
Thanks I'll have to give it a look.

Can someone link me all about particle.
I lost it. Google and /rs/ is failing me.

Really want to buy the rest of the A Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series. I only have the basic one.

But, I don't have a job. Sucks being a Japanese translator but you don't fully know the language but you need work to pay the bills...

>>5008681
Try Genki.
Also Tae Kim's guide to Japanes Grammer is pretty good as well.
Thats strange though. To me Japanese grammar is like the easiest thing in the world. Spanish kicked my ass back in high school and I hear German is a bitch.

>>5008767
がdenotes the object of a sentence while は is the subject.

>>5008783

Back when I was in high school, I hated learning Spanish because at the time I REALLY wanted to learn Japanese. Then I got to college and switch my major from Theology to Japanese.

>>5008660
I was just trying to point out that babies aren't inherently better at picking up languages. But even if they were an adult can make up for it by being able to utilize a fully developed brain capable of conscious thought.
It's not a native language unless you learn it from birth. But it's true that babies are surrounded by their language whether they want it or not. There is no way for them to fail learning it unless they have an disability. I guess you could call that an advantage.

And yes, it can be really annoying when you're just starting out but it gets better more quickly than most people would think. You can enjoy things even if you don't understand everything.

>>5008800
Yeah I was sorta the same. I had to take 2 foreign language classes to graduate but all my school offered where the typical French German Spanish and Latin classes. Now I'm in college and taking intermediate Japanese. I've forgotten almost everything I learned in Spanish.

>>5008800
Fuck that, man, you could have been a priest. Why did you have to study Japanese instead?

>>5008818
Yeah, my point wasn't really that it's easier for babies in general to learn languages either. Pisses me off when people say that and use it as an excuse to not learn a new language at all. My general point is that just because babies do it doesn't mean you should do it.

>>5008797
I still don't get it, if　が marks the object like say 'THE DOG', then how does it work if there is a name 'THE REI'?

>>5008830

I just wasn't into it by college. I was actually very into Catholicism my senior year of high school. I just lost interest after I left high school and reverted back into being an Athiest. I think I was just very brainwashed going to a catholic high school and just wanted people to like me.

Now, I have a BA in Japanese and Asian Studies. Feels good.

>>5008457
Babies have context, you moron. It's easy to understand that "dog" means a dog when you parent is repeating it continually while pointing at a dog.

Listen to a song in an unknown language 500 times a day for 50 years and you still won't know what *any* of the words mean.

>>5008444
Indeed, that'd be completely useless. When learning a language you need to start with 100% explanations and 0% immersion, and *progressively* move on from there to 100% immersion. Immersion by itself does *nothing* if you don't know anything about the language.

Learn the grammar and some basic vocabulary, and only then go for immersion.

>>5008862

I'm not sure what you're talking about but here is an example は and が.

田中さんは山田さんが行けるようにした。

What do you not understand about は and が?

>>5008862
He's either a troll or a moron.

が and は both denote the topic of the sentence. There's a difference between them but it's rather hard to explain, and to be honest I'm not sure of it myself. AFAIK は is used when you talk about something in general and が when you're talking about the thing itself.

I've also been told that が is much like being an information marker. Like say you know Tom took someone to the library, but don't know who exactly you would use ga.

>>5008887
(Not the guy above) What about this?

あなたが犯人です。as opposed to
あなたは犯人です。
You are the criminal / You are a criminal (?).

My problem is the difference between

Causative, passive and causative passive. It's like, they use the causative even when they're being praised but causative is only used when you're being inconvenienced? Japan is such a weird country.

>>5008895
Well, yea I guess I am a moron when it's used in a context like みずなれいがセックスで応援. I just don't understand how you would use が there.

>>5008913
I meant the guy you replied to. It has nothing to do with the object of the sentences (that's what を is for).

>>5008908

あなたが犯人です。 - Has just learned who the criminal is.

あなたは犯人です。- Through logic/reason/someone else they are saying they are this.

It's also something about introducing new information.
は is used when you bring up a new topic, が when you add something about a topic you were already talking about. Though it's not that easy to remember thinking this way when actually talking

>>5008444
It may seem annoying and boring, but I think it will definitely help you. I know an Italian guy, and part of the way he learned English involved him repeating sentences, even if he didn't fully understand what they meant.
He said that it was annoying, but that it did help.

>>5008862
Here's how I understand it, though I'm far from fluent so I might be wrong.
the child が = It's the child who..., The child is the one who...
The child は = About the child, (/we/he...), On the subject of the child, (I/ they/he...)
Not sure if that makes sense, but it helps me when I think of it that way

>>5008908
I think it's
あなたが犯人です : You're the one that's the criminal. (context would be "he's the criminal. No. You're the criminal)
あなたは犯人です : You're the criminal (just a statement)

Feel free to tell me if I'm dead wrong.

>>5008923
>あなたが犯人です。 - Has just learned who the criminal is.
>あなたは犯人です。- Through logic/reason/someone else they are saying they are this.

This level of reasoning is possible for Furudo Erika
Sure?

X あなたは犯人です
X あなたが犯人です
O あなたを犯人です

>>5008961
No Hisui no!

>>5008961
I lol'd. I know I shouldn't have, but I did.

>>5008961
X あなたは犯人です
X あなたが犯人です
X あなたを犯人です
O あなたを犯す人は私です

The difference between は/が is an perfect example of something that's much easier to just pick up by immersion.