/jp/ - Otaku Culture

9/10

>my face on last paragraph

Well played...

Not bad at all.

But that one guy said that Yuka is actually much stronger than Yukari

>>4977357
He was wrong.

tl;dr
>8FuIlcirno
>8
>cirno

Fail.

>>4977357
Suigin is a registered troll offender. Pay him no attention.

>>4977357
Yuuka has the ultimate magic, so she's almost as strong as VIVIT.

>>4977373
And Lain is stronger than everyone ever, so who the hell cares about powerlevels.

>>4977275
It was a bit too long but I still chuckled at the second to last post.

>>4977373
>ultimate magic
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/S4912163#p4913860_8

and then Yuuka creates six different yukari clones and makes them play chess against each other

>>4977275

It would have been funnier if it merged into the plot of The Neverending Story, because by about 2/3 of the way through it matched up nearly perfectly.

>>4977405
i already proved you wrong, stop forcing your fanon shit on everyone

>replying to Suigin
You just got trolled so hard I wonder why you haven't been disconnected you out of shame

>>4977429
>>4977438
Hello fake suigin.

>>4977463
can't i use the tripcode that took me months to get

>>4977429
What part of border of creation and destruction you don't understand, numbnuts? Or border of ultimate and non-existant?

>>4977473
or is that your way of saying "FUCK YOU"

>>4977474
>creation and destruction
so instead of giving yuka the power to create youkai...you give her the power to destroy youkai?
>ultimate and non-existant
that'd turn no-magic into ultimate magic, you and me would be able to create our waifus!
six yukaris+yuka against one
while yukari and the others play with borders yuka simply turns yukari into youkai dust with magic

>>4977505
>so instead of giving yuka the power to create youkai...you give her the power to destroy youkai?
No, just giving Yukari the power to nullify Yuka's creations
>with magic
What magic? Her non-existent one?

>>4977534
not if her creations nullify her first
>What magic? Her non-existent one?
her normal one, silly
you know Yuka is really strong without the ultimate magic too

>>4977552
>first
Boundary of first and last
>her normal one
You seem to be the silly one; you've been relying to Yuuka's ultimate magic because her normal magic is too weak to harm Yukari. Yuuka=Final Boss<Yukari Phantasm Boss. And don't get me started on EX-Yuka, because that would take us back to the beginning of the argument and, besides EX is still weaker than Phantasm.

>>4977429
>and then Yuuka creates six different yukari clones and makes them play chess against each other
You're still going on about that ultimate magic stuff? In the previous debate(s) you claimed Alice used the ultimate magic to create living youkai. ZUN *explicitly states Alice does not have the ability to create living dolls. (She barely has the ability to create her own dolls.) Most of the shanghai you fight in PCB stage 3 were created by Hina.

Alice has been trying to create an independent doll her whole life. As a matter of fact, that's all she does with her spare time. If she used to have a grimoire that was capable of creating everything (i.e., the ultimate magic) don't you think she would have used it? And don't say she's holding back. If you read her interview with Aya you would see that Alice is more than willing to use every trick in the book in order to create an independent doll.

Alice is nothing more than a puppetmaster/magician. The ultimate magic was just a weak offense spell that gave its user her first defeat in MS.

>>4977590
Suigin is still going on about it because it's pure trolling, not actual discussion. No point in trying to take it seriously.

>>4977578
>Boundary of first and last
they can manipulate that too and 6 times faster
>you've been relying to Yuuka's ultimate magic
because that's her biggest strength
> because her normal magic is too weak to harm Yukari. Yuuka=Final Boss<Yukari Phantasm Boss
Just like Reisen's or Remilia's magic is too weak to harm Yukari yet they both beat her in SWR

Reisen= Stage 5 boss
Remilia= Stage 6 boss

also this stage level=powerlevel logic makes no sense at all

>>4977590
>You're still going on about that ultimate magic stuff? In the previous debate(s) you claimed Alice used the ultimate magic to create living youkai. ZUN *explicitly states Alice does not have the ability to create living dolls
I already told you she holds back
she doesn't want to use that book because it's so damn overpowered it's boring
it's like having cheatcodes for a game and not wanting to use them
also youkai die out of boredom and lack of will to live, alice needs a goal to continue living and researching magic is the main goal of all youkai magicians
>Most of the shanghai you fight in PCB stage 3 were created by Hina.
fanon shit i didn't even bother reading the rest of your post after this

>>4977631
learn what the word "trolling" means, /v/ newfriend

>>4977651
Why does she have nigger lips?

such a nerd discussion, worthy for suigin

>>4977632
But they already attacked first, manipulating it faster means a faster victory for Yukari. Oh wait, they also don't exist. Yukari had already erased Yuuka's ultimate magic before Yuuka could create them.
>because that's her biggest strength
Yawn, also non-existent.

Yukari is too ancient and powerful of a youkai to be harmed by mere Double Sparks.
>yet they both beat her in SWR
Not canon endings hurr durr
Yukari has canonically beaten Reisen, as for Remilia, Boundary of Past and Future. And don't shift the argument from Yuka vs.Yukari, Yukari can do whatever the fuck she wants with other characters. If you shift the topic away from Yuka, it means you have no arguments to support her.

Too bad Eirin is both older and more powerful than Yukari.

>>4977590
According to Perfect Memento in Strict Sense:
-Alice creates her dolls (manually) with her hands [1].
-The dolls are NOT capable of moving independently [1].
-Alice can only control a few of her dolls using a magic thread at a finite distance [1].
-There is no mentioning of the ultimate magic in Alice's ability profile [1].
-Alice has tried (and failed) to create a doll that's capable of moving independently [2].

Yet despite all of this evidence Suigin argued Alice can use the ultimate magic to create anything she wants [3]. Fun fact: there's no mentioning of ultimate magic being used to create anything other than a weak offense spell. Suigin thought Shinki had to rely on some type of magic to create makai but forgot the fact that she was a goddess.

Citation:
[1] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Alice_Margatroid
[2] http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Alice
[3] http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4508148#p4510099

>>4977685
>Not canon endings hurr durr
all endings are canon in SWR
also the same boundary manipulation applies to all my six yukari clones so if i want to "lol they manipulate the boundary between yukari and a turd" i can to
hell she could make them thousands of Yukari clones if i want to
or suika clones
or whatever yuka desires

just admit you lost, and save me the time, battler

>>4977672
Shut up, don't interrupt a Touhoufag vs Touhoufag argument, we are already lost cases, go bump a good thread or something! Save yourself!

>>4977699
You shut up too, we'll move on to your character after we settle this one.

>>4977704
Just to set the record straight you're currently arguing (with at least) two different people.

>>4977701
>Shinki had to rely on some type of magic to create makai but forgot the fact that she was a goddess.

yeah i wonder when we are visiting minoriko's makai or kanako's makai or hina's makai

ORT is stronger than Yuuka and Yukari.

>>4977704
>whatever yuka desires

What will she create them with, you retard? Yukari has already turned her ultimate magic, the power to create things, into non-existent magic. Your six Yukari clones didn't even get created. And even if they were, that only points out that Yuuka can't even defeat Yukari by herself, it only shows only Yukari can defeat Yukari. But, alas, they don't exist without the power to be created.
>all endings are canon in SWR

see

>don't shift the argument from Yuka vs.Yukari

>>4977733
Scrooge McDuck is stronger than ORT

>>4977685
>Yukari has canonically beat Reisen

I hope you're not talking about IN, because the canon ending was Remilia and Sakuya's

I tired to shift the debate to Yukari vrs Eirin which I belive to be a much more fair debate.

Maybe in terms of raw power Yuka > Yukari but that isn't all to winning a battle.

>>4977734
>What will she create them with, you retard? Yukari has already turned her ultimate magic, the power to create things, into non-existent magic.
all she has to do is "not use magic" to be able to use it
>>don't shift the argument from Yuka vs.Yukari
trying to run away from the fact that yuka was beaten by Remi and Reisen how cute

>>4977729
>yeah i wonder when we are visiting minoriko's makai or kanako's makai or hina's makai
Are you even serious right now or do you really fail this much at Japanese mythology? All gods were NOT created equally. And most gods have a specific ability/task/duty. Their abilities range from creating planets to making storms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ame-no-Uzume
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto

>>4977760
And here I thought you weren't a secondary.

>>4977768
exactly
Shinki's ability was the ability to create youkai and universes
The Grimoire of Alice is based on the Grand Grimoire that lends you the power of the devil

Shinki=The Devil

Alice didn't know how to create youkai or her own universes in MS stage 3
Alice knew how to do it in MS Extra
what did she obtain in the middle of that?
The grimoire of Alice

now Alice was canonically beaten by Yuka in MS Extra and she stole the Grimoire

According to ZUN she obtained the Ultimate Magic
now "Not even the author knows what it is" aka "the contents of it are so vast i won't even bother explaining"

it's so simple and basic even a 5 year old can understand it

>>4977763
The whole concept of "nullifying magic" lies to the fact that she was ABLE to use magic before, as in, she had MAGICAL AFFINITY, but, after, I repeat, AFTER the manipulation of the border she is NOT able to use magic, as in she has NO MAGICAL AFFINITY anymore. Gosh, your stupidity is dazzling.

Also, as I said before Yukari can do whatever the fuck she wants the other characters, win or lose, but she can still beat Yuka. I'n not the one who's trying to run away.

>>4977810
now you proved you don't know anything about how boundaries work
damn this is boring im back to playing phoenix wright

>boundary between UM and non-existence
that just makes Yuka win by doing nothing since both the concepts of non-existance and UM are fused
peace

>>4977756
However, Reisen's power canonically has no effect on Youkai, especially ones of a higher caliber. Proof that only humans are supposed to be driven mad by the fake moon, which is more or less the same effect Reisen's eyes give.

>>4977863
>don't know anything about how boundaries work

Butthurt much? Yukari's power is stated to work on such abstract concepts.

>fused
But they are still not the same thing.Between them, there is a boundary.

>>4977785
I guess posting in /jp/ makes me a secondary then?

Nice logic there, sorry that I brought up non-pc 98 characters to the table.

Yuka is one of the few youkai that lost to Reimu before the spellcard rules were put into place. That arguably makes her weaker than Remilia. Also, this panel from SSiB was the ultimate smack in the face to Yuka. It talks about why the spellcard rules were put into place. Apparently Yuka wasn't a big enough threat to Reimu to warrant its use. (Hence the reason why Reimu managed to beat Yuka without them.) Fun fact: in PoFV when Reimu encounters Yuka she says "Everything went back to normal when I defeated you back then! "

Yuka is so strong that she got beat by a human girl.

>>4977760
>Maybe in terms of raw power Yuka > Yukari
What? Is today opposite day or something? Since WHEN is the "ability to manipulate flowers" on par with the "ability to manipulate boundaries?" In Perfect Memento it was (blatantly) stated that Yukari was one of the few Touhous that had powers on par with the gods. If you're referring to brute strength (as in muscle) then I might agree with you.

Shinki > Yukari and all

I mean, who else has, ingame, destroyed the dimension (and the world) three times in one battle (and recreated it immediately afterwords)?

>>4977933
Doesn't Yuka has the "Ultimate Magic", whatever the hell that might be?

>>4977935
Eirin is more powerful.

I mean who else can create medicines that make your immortal and has been alive longer than mankind. Not to mention everything she did in IN.

>>4977933

Yuka has great physical strength, nearly on par/equal to Yuugi.

She also has dual spark. Plus, EVERYONE gets defeated by Reimu.

But Yuka getting beaten without spellcard rules really pissed me off.

>>4977889
Look at Reimu's phantasm scenario. There are an immense number of boundaries and Yukari implies she has a limit to how many she can manipulate at once.

>>4977935
Yukari can destroy Gensokyo at will too.
But, wait, I got another idea.

Shinki is a goddess, right?
Gods in Gensokyo power up by faith.
Thus, Shinki powers up as a goddess by having the demons (that entered Makai) worshiping her.
But what if the demons get killed? I mean, it's not hard to have Ran assassinate all of them.

I'm assuming all of this would happen only if Shinki is considered the same as the other gods.

>>4977957
Yuuka lost on purpose because killing the last Hakurei would destroy Gensokyo. She just wanted to play before tea.

>>4977968

Good idea, I'm stealing your excuse.

Also, Yuka was smart, she realized that killing Reimu would also result in EVERYONE going after her. She's the strongest*** youkai, but she can't take everyone else on at the same time.

My opinion > Your opinion***

Posting because everyone in this thread greatly underestimates Eirin.

Yukari=Eirin>Shinki=Suika=Yuugi>Yuka=Kanako=Suwako

The most powerful touhou is the Yama and you can't deny that. ZUN implied.

>>4977945
Yes and no. Here's the history of the ultimate magic. Alice used it during an encounter in MS (it was a weak offense spell) that resulted in her receiving multiple defeats. Yuka received the ultimate magic during the end of MS.

Suigin thought the ultimate magic was needed to create makai, despite the fact that it's stated Shinki used her goddess hax to create maikai. As a result Suigin assumed the ultimate magic had the ability to create things. If Suigin wants to debunk this post cite ONE example of it being used to create something in one of ZUN's writings. And don't give me your fanon garbage. ZUN has written plenty of books, surely there must be one instance of the words "ultimate magic" appearing in the same sentence as "creation." I'll leave myself vulnerable in this debate and take it to the next level. If you can find one instance of the word "creation" and "ultimate magic" in the same *paragraph I'll delete all of my post and admit Yuka is stronger than Yukari. I'm waiting.

>>4977959
When exactly does she say she can't manipulate too many borders at once? All she says is that there are too many borders. And she uses one after another in the same battle you mentioned.
>Balance of Motion and Stillness
>Mesh of Light and Darkness
>Xanadu of Straight and Curve
>Boundary of Humans and Youkai
>Boundary of Life and Death
I mean, goddamn, these aren't simple borders, she is tearing the laws of reality one after another at whim.

>>4977993
Yukari does say she's afraid of the yama, or something to that effect.

>>4977989

>Yuka=Suwako.

>>4977968
>>4977978
Yawn, excuses excuses.

>>4977993
And before someone come saying "HURR DURR YUKA DEFEATED HER IN A "ALL OUT" BATTLE!!!"

Notice that all routes in PoFV have a bit of canon on it, but that doesn't mean all routes are canon, since that is impossible. And considering the Yama personality she probably just said that and let Yuka live in the end to preaching sake. Her objective was to make everyone there think about their past and repent for their sins since she came to gensokyo in the middle of that, and we can see that EVERY CHARACTER does that in the end of their route.

>>4977993
I never said Yukari>all. of course the Yama is the strongest.
I just said Yukari>Yuka, something Suigin is too butthurt to come out and acknowledge now.

>>4978029
Yuka = Flower Youkai
Suwako = Former Goddess of a once powerful nation

Hmmmmm....?

Lucky he put them on the same level.

Be honest with me.

Does everyone hate Yuka because of Suigin?

>>4978049

Yes

>>4978045
That's just Yuka's 'title'. Her power is extremely huge, making her one of the most powerful youkai and ZUN stated it many times already.

Go read some canon, son.

YUYU IS BEST TITS

>>4978023
In Japanese mythology the yama are known as the "gods of the dead." Since this is a battle between youkai, let's leave the gods out of it. But In Yukari's defense she's the only Touhou that is showing signs of aging.

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia:_Chapter_25

Once she dies Shiki will decide where she goes, so it's understandable that she would have some fear of Shiki. Keep in mind that this is the same Yukari that admitted defeat to one of the moonbitches all the while coordinating a three party invasion of the moon. She's very sarcastic/apathetic when it comes to battles.

>>4978049
But as a Yukarifag, I don't hate Yuka. She is damn sexy. And I admit she is pretty damn powerful too. But she still can't beat Yukari. Even with the retarded godmode Suigin gave her. Yukari, on the other hand, has canon godmode that transcends magic.

>>4978049
Pretty much.

>>4978102
Too bad Eirin will be alive long after Yukari dies.

The she will be THE most powerful.

>>4978103

We really need straight definitions on who has godmode.

Some people say ZUN has implied that Yuka is unkillable, others say "NO HE JUST SAID SHE'S UNBEATABLE, YOU CAN KILL HER."

>>4978102
That wasn't a "defeat". It was merely a setback inside a setback. Besides, Yukari's party got the booze after all. If that isn't victory in Touhouverse, I don't know what is.

>>4977889
>But they are still not the same thing.Between them, there is a boundary.
therefore the UM still exists
>>4977933
>Yuka is one of the few youkai that lost to Reimu before the spellcard rules were put into place.
Reimu and Marisa
Reimu's scenario explains why Mugenkan wasn't mentioned anymore and Marisa's scenario explains why she stole the Master Spark
>Eirin is more powerful.
no she isn't keep your flavor of the month favorite character out of these threads and go read some touhou canon
actually stop posting on /jp/ completely
>>4977967
Shinki creates other demons
done
>>4978004
>Alice used it during an encounter in MS (it was a weak offense spell)
proved wrong
>the fact that it's stated Shinki used her goddess hax to create maikai.
never stated
>>4978034
>Notice that all routes in PoFV have a bit of canon on it, but that doesn't mean all routes are canon, since that is impossible.
it isn't
>Yukari=Eirin>Shinki=Suika=Yuugi>Yuka=Kanako=Suwako
fanon bullshit
>>4978045
>basing titles with actual powerlevel

>>4978121
>Yukari's power to manipulate boundaries gives her power over all sorts of things and is comparable to the powers of the gods.
Canon godmode
From PMiSS, translation is a courtesy of:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo

>>4978034
Every encounter in PoFV cant be canon. It's just not possible. If they were that would mean Cirno defeated everybody. It was also mean Cirno lost to everybody.

If every encounter in PoFV was canon that would mean every character lost to every character but at the same time managed to win against every character. Until ZUN says one of the routes were canon any speculation is just fanon.

>>4978102
>she's the only Touhou that is showing signs of aging.
so is yuka
>>4978103
yuka can create many youkai on the same level as her

>>4978121
ZUN never said neither of these things

>>4978138

That's one character.

There are many more. Enjoy collecting a straight list on who is godmode.

>>4978131

Ultimate comeback.

>>4978138
>shinto gods
durr hee hee

>>4978141

Prove it.

And I can prove it myself, but I'd like to see how you can do.

>>4978140
You say as if such a powerful spell could be done instantly, and following ZUN's kind of magic as he talks about magicians in PMiSS it's pretty clear that a spell like that would require plenty of time to prepare and execute.

>>4978131
Ultimate magic still exists, but becuse of Yukari, Yuuka can't use it.

Shinki has no power to create without faith. And destroying her while in the process of creating more demons is easy.

Also you're a faggot who intentionally forgets previous posts.

>>4978161

Suigin said nothing about how long it takes to make more youkai, what are you talking about?

>>4978154
I simply don't recall ever reading that. Now I want to know where you get that.

Shinki and Yama > Everyone

Now everyone, shut the hell up.

>>4977379
Lain universal nigh omnipotent. That's like what? 5 tiers away from true god.

Tier 0-(true god)

Tier 1-(omniversal beings)

Tier 2 - (Megaverse beings)

Tier 3-(Multiversal beings)

Tier 4-(Universal nigh omnipotents)

Tier 5-(universal high tier cosmics)

Tier 6-(Universal mid Tier Cosmics/Celestials)

Tier 7-Universal low tier cosmics

Tier 8- Sky Father Level beings

>>4978131
>Implying Eirin is a flavor of the month character
Whoa, looks like someone doesn't want a fair challenger to this fight. Canon states that she has be alive since before mankind, most canon sources for Yukari don't go anywhere near that.

And Eirin's medicines themselves are able to do things that go beyond normal boundries i.e. Hourai Elixir. I'm pretty that since she can create that, they are many other legendary potions she could create with other amazing and boundary defying effects.

Not even the Yama can do a thing about something that is immortal.

>>4978174
Shinki = The Devil. Try losing the faith of the Devil. You'd have to kill all other OTHER Gods just to even have a chance.

>>4978180
Should I recall you that Suigin is a nobody?

I talking about MAGIC. go read about it in PMiSS and see for yourself.

>>4978183

Go read Perfect Memento.

Everyone in /jp/ should read that.

>>4978161
we don't know if boundary manipulation is instantaneous either
>>4978174
>but becuse of Yukari, Yuuka can't use it.
which boundary does she manipulate again?
>Shinki has no power to create without faith. And destroying her while in the process of creating more demons is easy.
proof?
you talk like makai demons are easily killable

>>4978190
>Canon states that she has be alive since before mankind
and that is useful for...
>
And Eirin's medicines themselves are able to do things that go beyond normal boundries i.e. Hourai Elixir. I'm pretty that since she can create that, they are many other legendary potions she could create with other amazing and boundary defying effects.
she needed kaguya for that

This is straight out of Perfect Memento.

>She's more like a manifestation of nature rather than a flower youkai, but unlike fairies, she is far more dangerous than any of the youkai introduced so far.

>more dangerous than any of the youkai introduced so far

I love Touhou power-level discussions.

No, I'm serious.

I'll always be here

Watching your /jp/ vs Suigin, Yukari vs Yuuka power-level discussions

With a smile on my face and a tear in my eye.

Yuugi can reflect Yuuka's ultimate magic back at her because she knows Aikido.

Suigin, cite some evidence of the ultimate magic being used to create something. Surely if Shinki, Yuka, and Alice have such a power you could find ONE instance of them saying they used it to create something. You cant find one example? Pathetic.

To the other guys that are debating him, why are you taking this ultimate magic thing seriously? It's obvious Suigin is moving the goalpost.

>>4978213
I failed greentexting!
I better ask Moe the clown a few questions

>>4978200
I'm reading it for the 129321 time right now trying to find what you said. If you can't tell me where it exactly is I'll assume that you are just speculating.

>>4978214

More.

>There are no countermeasures; it's impossible for ordinary humans to exterminate her. They can only be vigilant.

I do realize it says ordinary humans.

I used to agree with Suigin but now I don't. The ultimate magic is vague and nothing has been said about it in the canon works except "Dunno lol". No really

>"Also, after Mystic Square's extra ending, as >planned, Yuka received the ultimate
>magic. The author himself doesn't know exactly what >is it."

Is it magic that allows Yuka to make universes like Shinki? Nah. Shinki was already god modo, no need for UM. Was it what allowed Alice to make her dream world? Was never explicitly stated. Does it make tea taste extra good? No one fucking knows.

Even after Yuuka gets it does her power level increase? No,she's still the same obscenely powerful youkai she was BEFORE getting that shit.

In my opinion Yukari is not god modo, notice in PMiSS her power says God-like. You usually use a simile to say something is CLOSE to another but not quite. I'm woman-like, not a women bu close enough. I mean if she's queen god bitch then what about the Dragon Gods?

The only powerlevel portrayal I ever really liked was Chado's shit. Decently powered and awesome but not stupid.

>>4978201
The border of Ultimate and non-existant, hello? Fuck me, I should have said "existed". How can you fight with something that ceased to exist?

>>4978233

>It's impossible for normal humans to exterminate her, and it's unclear if even the Shrine Maiden has defeated her. However, one can still enjoy Yuka's battle if one does not disturb her, as it is said to be full of beauty.

Interpret this however you want.

>>4978121
You talking about Curiosities of lost Asia with Rinnsoku comparing Yukari to an infinite being because of the etymology of her name and how youkai = their names and every thing has characteristics of their name? Yeah that's good but also very vague in both the way its worded and the meaning.

>>4978240
But look at Yuuka in Kioh Gyoku. After gettng the ultimate magic, she fights on the same level as Seihou characters.

>>4978245

>unclear

I think that's ZUN expressing the view of Gensokyo inhabitants. It's more than clear that Reimu defeated Yuka. At least that's how I see it.

>>4978261

And now you've confirmed the reason for all these "Unkillable" vs "Some other thing" fights.

Everyone interprets this a different way.

>>4978258
Don't bring Seihou to TOUHOU discussion. Different games, different canon.

So all you Yukari fans out there really thinks she's so powerful with her border manipulation that she could use her powers to reverse the effects of the Hourai Elixir?

If you beilve she is that powerful, this should be an easy task right?

>>4978258

Let us stop the ultimate magic argument.

We're already going on about power levels, we don't need some ultra confusing argument going on.

I bet not even ZUN knows how ultimate magic truly works.

>>4978271
How the fuck could she do that? it's just impossible

Hey don't mind me just being the strongest Touhou ever.

- Hat says dragon.
- Uses the same 7 colored power dragons used to create the world
- Attacks named after dragons

Most likely the daughter of a dragon god making her the strongest touhou besides Yukari and Shink.

>>4978273
Sounds like Eirin > Yukari to me then.

/argument

>>4978258
I know nothing of Seihou since nothing is translated even on the wiki.

>>4978272
>Not even ZUN knows

fucking this.

ZUN never labeled power levels and will never do such a thing because every author knows that it kills his fanbase greatly, they rather have them discussing eternally using obscure and unclear base.

He will simply make a comment once something new is released based on what hes thinking at the moment.

>>4978287
But that's not a matter of POWER then is it?

>>4978214
>She's more like a manifestation of nature rather than a flower youkai, but unlike fairies, she is far more dangerous
Two logical fallacies in one post. First of all, note the use of the word "dangerous." If you read Perfect Memento you'll notice that ZUN sructured the youkai in a format that list their threat levels towards humans. The threat levels that were given to each youkai were a combination of the youkai's personality and power. I.E., their response towards outsiders. Yuka is a batshit insane youkai that would rip your head off if you stepped on a flower. It's her personality that makes her dangerous. (And besides, Yuka cant be that dangerous if she lost to Marisa back in her rookie days.)

>than any of the youkai introduced so far.
Secondly, she's only more dangerous than the youkai that were introduced (thus far) in the Perfect Memento book.

OH LOOK POWERLEVELS

ORT > TOYOHIME > YORIHIME > FUTAHIME > SHIKIEIKI YAMAXANADU > FRED FLINTSTONE > ARCUEID > RYOUGI SHIKI > SHIKI > RIDER > CASTER > MEREM > WHATEVER > SION > JONES > SABER > TYPE-MOON FAN > STUDIO DEEN > ZUN > FLANDRE SCARLET > MY TASTES > YOUR TASTES > BRUNETTE > BLOND > NVIDIA > ATI > INTEL > AMD > 4CHAN > 7CHAN> CIRNO > SHIT > /jp/

>>4978271
Because the Horai elixir removes borders. Its a potion that removes the boundary of life and death. Yukari can only manipulate what has boundaries in both concept or form.

If we started including personality in these power level things, then the scales would get tipped.

Yuka is incredibly hostile. Therefore she's always ready to fight and that increases her power level.

Yukari just sleeps and takes it easy all day. Unless she decides she wants to be a puppet master one day.

Eirin...I don't know much about Eirin. So I'm not going to bullshit my way through her personality.

>>4978289
Some of Seihou is translated on the wiki.

>>4978298
>7chan above shit
Yeah, okay.

>>4978287
>Implying Yukari couldn't just throw an immortal off into some gap and never have to worry about them again.

Status:
TOLD

>>4978296

Speaking of personalities...>>4978300

But true with the "Yuka lost to Marisa (and Reimu) in her rookie days" thing. She also lost to everyone on PoFV, but as someone said, all the routes cannot be canon.

If I wanted to be a bitch, I could say YUKA ONLY LOST TO REIMU AND MARISA BECAUSE THEY'RE MAIN CHARACTERS SO THEY ALWAYS WIN.

>>4978299
[citation needed] about the elixir removing the border of life and death

>>4978220
I know man, we're trying our best for your sake.

>>4978298
Hey now, powerlevel is a legitimate way to discuss a story. We've had more discussion on the game, story and lore in this thread than in all the "LOOK AT THAT BAKA XD" "I WANT YUKA TO FUCK ME" "WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YO UWANDERED INTO GENSOKYO? and "XXX IS MA WAIFU FAV CHARACTERS XD" threads.

Powerlevel only becomes fanwank when it deals with other works of fiction (Like DC vs Marvel etc etc) but when its a powerlevel discussion discussing the heirachy of a one game to itself then its fun. Chill man.

>>4978314
Give me second, searching Cage in a lunatic runegate for where it was said.

Yorihime > ALL

Its canon, blocked a master spark with just her sword.

>>4978324
yeah, so therefore master spark > every single thing in the touhou universe

Nice logic there

>>4978314
Source is canon.

>>4978318

>I WANT YUKA TO FUCK ME

At least use XXX there. ;_;

>>4978328

>>4978329
I WANT YUKA TO FUCK XXX

>>4978244

Compare our discussion to this.

Good job, guys. I'm serious.

>>4978335

>I WANT XXX TO FUCK XXX

Fixed, and it's actually true now.

>>4978318
I made that post in a self-humorous mood. I know /jp/ is good at directing powerlevels, unlike those people you mentioned.

>>4978324
And yet she can't even throw a single bullet of her own. So much for strongest power.

>>4978336
Agreed. Much better

>>4978314
delivered.

>>4978327
Well, Yuka is one of the strongest, that we can agree, and that being her signature move and one of the most powerful single attacks in canon, I can say that blocking it with very little effort is quite a feet.

>>4978324
to be fair the sword was god sword

>>4978342
>Can't throw a bullet of her own
[citation needed]

>>4978350

Dual Master Spark.

Here is a helpful explanation of the differences.

Disregard the cock references.

>>4978349
That's a bit philosophical but I accept. Since Yukari's powers also can affect the abstract (don't know if it is stated but I'm pretty sure we can conclude that from even canon material)

>>4978349
Also, Mokou and Kaguya are true immortals. Nothing can kill them.
Even Yukari admitted that she's invincible. You can't kill something in which death doesn't exist, after all.

this clown is moe~
clown moe~
wwwwwwwww

>>4978367
But it's canon that ONE Master Spark of the Dual Master Spark spell is weaker than Marisa's single Master Spark

>>4978378
see
>>4978309

Almost as good right?

The word "canon" is being thrown around a lot in this thread.

Does it even mean anything?

ORT = VIVIT > Ado Edem > Sikieiki > Type Jupiter > EX-Yuka > Eirin = Type Saturn = Crimson Moon = Yorihime = Toyohime = Yukari > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Tenshi > Yuugi = Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Suika = Zelretch > Counter Guardian > Gilgamesh = Reimu = EX-Alice = Shinki > Arcueid > EX-Marisa = Flandre = Komachi = Dark Sakura > Dark Saber = Mokou = Kaguya > Ran = Yuyuko= Yuka > Lancelot = Saber = Remilia > Suwako = Kanako = Sigma > 5th Berserker = Roa Elesia = Utsuho = Mima = Gengetu > Dark Berserker = Iku = Yumemi > EX-Keine > Satori = Koishi = Marisa > 4th Caster > 4th Lancer > 5th Lancer = 5th Caster = Yumeko > Aya = Mugetu = Patchouli > 4th Rider > 5th Rider = Orin = Sakuya > Youmu = Alice = Mai > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri = Reisen = Sanae > Tewi = Medicine > Yuki = Chiyuri > Elly > Lunasa > Merlin = Nitori = Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin = Luize = Rikako > Lyrica > Kana = Keine = Lolice = Sara > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Soren Araya Kurumi > Momiji = China >Ellen > Mystia = Chen > Gun God (Black Barrel) = Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia = Meira = Wriggle > Hina > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Fujino = 18th Roa = Parsee > Kotohime > Flower Tank > SHIKI = Arba (potentially) = Heaven’s Feel Shirou = Kiri = Letty = Yamame > Koakuma > Nanaya = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Cirno > Orange > Minoriko > Shizuha > Rumia = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Arba (usually) = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee = Kisume > Lily > Daiyousei > Fake Shiki > Shinji = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Gun God (unequipped) = Hisui = Kohaku = Starsapphire = Lunachild = Sunnymilk

>>4978389
Yeah, Yukari can still do that. They won't die, but she can put them somewhere where they won't ever come back. It's not stated anywhere that she can't.

>>4978383
Poor Suigin, it's ok, I still love Yuka, even if she isn't the strongest and, most of all, I still love you~♥

>>4978398
Nice shitpasta you got there.

>>4978396
Yes.

Canon: Games, Side stories written by Zun, comics written by Zun, Official manga, PMiSS, The BUnBun newspaper thing aya did, Grimoir of Marisa

Alternate Canon: Arguable PC-98 (depends on who you ask) and Seihou games.

Not canon: Doujinshi, anime, flash videos.

>>4978383
Most annoying witness ever. His animation made me want to punch something.

>>4978378
This does make sense unless you allow yourself to be imaginative with Yukari's powers, yet again. I'm not claiming I know she could actually do it, but with a power so vague as "the power to control boundaries" then technically nothing is impossible. Given there is no limit to Yukari's ability, she'd only be limited by to her own will and imagination.

But, because we don't know in detail whether or not there are any limits to what Yukari can do, the power level discussion regarding her will just be a matter of one person's argument against another person's argument.

>>4978419
BUTTHURT STAR SAPPHIRE FAN DETECTED

>>4978240
>I used to agree with Suigin but now I don't. The ultimate magic is vague and nothing has been said about it in the canon works except "Dunno lol". No really
Alice used it in PM and it was a weak spell attack. What more do you want?

>Is it magic that allows Yuka to make universes like Shinki? Nah. Shinki was already god modo, no need for UM.
Let's just put this on the record that there's NO mentioning of the ultimate magic being used to create anything, period.

>Was it what allowed Alice to make her dream world?
We don't know enough about the location Alice was in. Keep in mind that this is the same Alice ZUN said couldn't create a living doll. Saying she has the ability to create a dimension is a stretch; not that creating a dimension of that size would be hard with all of the grimoires in the Touhouverse.

>Even after Yuuka gets it does her power level increase? No,she's still the same obscenely powerful youkai she was BEFORE getting that shit.
Powerful you say? She lost in an all out battle to Reimu. Keep in mind that this was *before the spellcard rules were put into place. It's also before Reimu learned how to invoke the powers of the gods. Hell, it's even before Reimu learned how to control her kai enough in order to take flight. (Meaning she was still on the Dragonball level.) The only reason why Reimu is able to fight (and win) against powerful enemies like Suwako and Eirin is because of the spellcard rules.

>>4978400
>>4978389
I could have sworn reading somewhere they can control where they can regenerate ad how long they can stay down.

>>4978241
simply by doing nothing
yukari just fused the concept of non-existing and the UM
>>4978269
it isn't different
>>4978222
maybe if we knew what Yuugi's power was she'd be the strongest youkai

if i skipped your post tell me i'm reading quickly and i can't think because the music that plays when you talk to moe the clown is fucking distracting

>>4978300
>Yuka is incredibly hostile. Therefore she's always ready to fight and that increases her power level.
ZUN said the more powerful/experienced the youkai the more laid back their personalities are. Yukari is the most laid back and easy going Touhou in the Touhouverse.

>>4978434
>it isn't different

of course it is

>>4978431

You're slow.

90% of that was already said in some way.

>>4978431
>Alice used it in PM and it was a weak spell attack. What more do you want?
>PM
>weak attack
when are you going to play the game, secondary kid
>Let's just put this on the record that there's NO mentioning of the ultimate magic being used to create anything, period.
it's basic logic i already posted before
>We don't know enough about the location Alice was in.
Wonderland created by herself
>Keep in mind that this is the same Alice ZUN said couldn't create a living doll.
because she holds back
>She lost in an all out battle to Reimu.
and marisa

>>4978431
>She lost in an all out battle to Reimu.

Youkai can't go all-out against Reimu out of fear of the border breaking. Spellcard rules remedied that too.

>>4978445

She doesn't go on raids to kill everyone.

She just protects her field. She's kind of laid-back unless you (attempt to) destroy her property.

>>4978448
how?
Marvel Canon is canon despite being composed by many universes

>>4978445
Yuka DOES have a laidback personality. She almost never appeared if it wasn't for PoFV, she just felt like going out to see the flowers while most of the characters were with a objective in mind, that's pretty laid back to me.

>>4978431
>Hell, it's even before Reimu learned how to control her kai enough in order to take flight. (Meaning she was still on the Dragonball level.)

You mean the same Reimu that beat Sariel, fought evenly with Shinki and laid waste to Makai, slaughtering its residents? PC-98 Reimu was a BEAST. So that doesn't mean anything. Plus bringing up DBZ is funny because high level Touhou and Main characters (except for Sanae) could wreck their shit with ease.


And spell card rules are not mandatory. In fact I'd wager that in all the fights that had non-gensokyo residents in them they were all out to kill and fighting with their strongest power. Its only after you beat them that they now follow the rules.

>>4978452
>basic logic

that's not a argument. It varies from person to person.

>>4978434
I wanna know, where can I get more info on Seihou? That's the only Touhou thing out of my league since its not translated (Also someone please finish translating the short stories.)

>>4978431

Consider this.

Yuka kills Reimu.

1. The series is OVER. ZUN's main character is dead.

2. Everyone would rage and fight Yuka. Eventually she would be cut down. Yuka has a brain, she knows not to envoke the wrath of Gensokyo on her.

>>4978460
No. Just no. Their attacks and power varies from comic to comic or game to game.

>>4978434
She can't defeat Yukari by doing nothing, I thought that was a given already. Also if she manipulated the border of ultimate magic and nothing towards the concept of nothing, that means doing ultimate magic equals nothing but doing nothing doesn't equal doing ultimate magic. Hurr

>>4978461
>never appeared again
fixed

>>4978475
Mean shit, 616 and main DCU is canon, varying powerlevels can attributed to plot induced stupidity or character induced stupidity. See Black Panther Armbaring Silver Surfer, people threw a hissy fit because SS could atomize BP and the writer for that series has a hard on for BP so what happened? They just called CIS in the next issue with SS being a pacifist and all that.

>>4978474

I agree with 1.

Yuka's reason for losing is because ZUN.

>>4978501

I don't know anything about comic book characters.

Am I the only one here?

>>4978452
>when are you going to play the game, secondary kid
Desperate much? I don't use your typos in my rebuttals. And I'm the last guy you want to call a secondary. We could watch our replays in UFO and SA's hard/lunatic. Then we'll see who's the secondary. If you want to end up eating your own words please continue. This should give me a good laugh or two.

>>4978483

Nothing has no borders.

>>4978519

>Bragging about his high scores.

>>4978519
Being a primary fan is not ALL about just being good at the games. Just saying.

>>4978523
Tell that to Suigin who keeps insisting manipulating the border between nothing and something completely fuses the two concepts together.

>>4978518
Read them. For beginners entering the genre I'd recommend reading miniseries that way you don't have to deal with continuities.

>>4978468
my daughter doesn't know how to add numbers
i send her to school
one day she somes to me and tells me she knows how to add numbers
>>4978473
no clue
Basically Seihou is everything that happens outside of Gensokyo a few years in the future
VIVIT fights Reimu, Marisa and Yuka in their prime
>>4978483
yes it does
a boundary can only be broken or strengthened concept-wise
physically wise it might alter the shape and composition of things
>>4978519
play mystic square extra and post the ending please
I want to see if you know jack shit about this game

There are several things that don't have borders and melding two things doesn't mean you can use the attributes of both or make something new from it that wouldn't already from their consistent parts. In that regard Yukari will never be higher than a universal reality warper and will always be second to Shinki.

Suigin, this post is directed at you.

>>4978558
>she comes to me

>>4978558
That also means Yukari can defeat Yuka by doing nothing.

>>4978581

Explain this in your own words. I want to see if you know what the fuck you're talking about.

You're all retarded, the great Mima is the strongest.

Strength isn't everything.
Truly, she will outlive everyone and everything. Though she may not be the strongest or the toughest despite being very powerful, she certainly is really cool.

Given if she'd live for all eternity, she'll be infinitely powerful. But, of course, that's impossible, as there is no "end" to reach in forever. She can't die though, so she must live forever. She only keeps on living.
Man, it'd be really cool if you had Yukari try to go at her over and over, with all her power, and Mokou being incabable of dying, Yukari finally goes all out yelling "WHY WON'T YOU DIE?!!"
Well, at least it'd be a cool thought. I doubt Yukari has any obligations.

>>4978597
Yes. Please tell these peasants how awesome Mima is.

>>4978558
I already told you that manipulating the border between the existence of Ultimate magic, hell, magic in general pretty much turns Yuka from a magic user into someone who can't use magic. It doesn't make doing nothing the same as using magic.

>>4978649
kind of reminds me of majin buu
just look at those pants

>>4978558
I 1mc'd most of the PC-98 games in one sitting (save for the first one). This was back in 2007. Despite this, my memory of them is still pretty good.

>>4978670
but he died in the end, didn't he?

>>4978678
Yeah, but Mokou's isn't regeneration-type immortality. It's resurrection, so she'll survive even if every cell dies.

>199 posts and 24 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
What have you done Suigin?

>>4978722

Some of this ended well.

>>4978558
Bullshit. You're a loser/nerd virgin just like the rest of us.

>>4978722
Something good. Participating in these powerlevelfests makes me feel more alive.

You guys are still at it? Damn

>>4978682
>>4978678
Wait, Buu never died, right? He was defeated and became a good guy. That is, if I remember it right?

>>4978400
It's not stated anywhere that Cirno can't kill Yukari while fucking her in the ass.

>>4978656
explain to me how does this work then?
use the picture
>>4978673
post what i asked you to post

>>4978740
>Futa Cirno fucking Yukari in the ass

FUND IT, NOW!

>>4978523
You pulled that out of the border of your ass and your fanboyism.

So, from what I gather, VIVIT is the most powerful thing in the universe.

People need to forget about their love for a character when discussions like this take place. Sadly only a few do that.

Yukarifags logic: Yukari can manipulate borders so she can manipulate the border of manipulation so she can manipulate everything and always wins.

Yukafags: Yuka has the Ultimate Magic and since it is ultimate it is past everything so she can use it to do everything and so she always wins.

>>4978752
Notice how there is no Ultimate Magic anymore?

>>4978597
This. Only character to canonically beat/tie with Reimu.

I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED AN ENTIRE POWERLEVEL THREAD

AND I'M NOT EVEN ON MY OWN COMPUTER SO I CAN'T POST OMEGA STRONGTAN

SHIT FUCKING FUCK DAMN IT

>>4978786
If the Boundary is still there, than there is still UM. And if there is UM, and UM can do everything, than the border may be reverted to where it was.
Yukari can't DESTROY borders.

Guys, this is silly.

You are silly.

>>4978794
>I CAN'T POST OMEGA STRONGTAN
NOT OMEGA STRONGTAN!!!!!

>>4978786
it actually works like this

>>4978797
/jp/ is a bunch of 20 year old guys with the brain of 13 year old kids, what did you expect?

>>4978795
She doesn't need to destroy it. She manipulates it long enough for Yuka to be powerless. Then she restores it back but there is no Yuka to take advantage of that anymore.

>>4978794
don't bring my daughter into this
>>4978787
plenty of other characters beat reimu

>>4978795
no, because UM is sealed since there is not a place for it to exist. It exists but it can't manifest itself nowhere. Thus, no one can use it.

>>4978807
It doesn't necessarily. Blurring the borders between concepts isn't the only thing Yukari can do. This is where your logic fails.

>>4978819
now post OMEGA STRONGTAN EX

>>4978807
>I don't have arguments so I'll just post this image

>>4978820
This

>>4978810
But if the UM is ultimate, then no matter how you manipulate the border, it will not lose its power. This whole border thing is silly.

>>4978820
>there is not a place for it to exist
>It exists
Anon manipulating the border between logic error and pure retardness.

>>4978826
It actually makes a lot more of sense than
>>4978786
Manipulating the border does not mean A becomes B rather than B becomes A, but rather they both became the same thing.

>>4978823
what can she do then?
strengthen them? useless
as long as it exists the UM cannot be sealed at least with Yukari's manipulation
>>4978826
>I can't argue so i will grentest

>>4978819
>she can negate the effects of the hourai elixir
hahaha oh wow
people who have as much as a taste of that medicine are as good as already having lived forever
nice try, though

>>4978834
Actually bringing it closer to nothing is what weakens it.

>>4978853
she wouldn't even need to negate it's effects if she destroyed mokou or kaguya's body totally (which she could), so that not even a single hair remained to regenerate from

she's omega strongtan motherfucker

>>4978752
>post what i asked you to post
What, MS's extra ending? I'll get to it soon (after I get back to my computer). I'm just wondering why you want it?

Actually, Yukari CAN, in fact, both destroy and create borders.
But without any borders at all, everything would exist as a single object, so post >>4978807
>>4978843
would make sense

>>4978851
um excuse me but infinity times a number is equal to infinity. furthermore,

>>4978862
people sure are dumb.
Actually, it wouldn't even matter. She doesn't need a hair or body part to resurrect. It's not regeneration-type anyway

>>4978851
Think of it this way then. She essentially keeps the Ultimate Magic out of Yuka's reach. Hell, she can even gap it in herself.

>>4978870
This.
However, people don't understand that what she does is valid for everything. If she destroys the border of life and death, for example, not only her adversary becomes an undead, she also does.

>>4978885
>nothingness
>people in nothingness
>an existance in something that can't have an existance
I'm pretty sure it does not work like that

>>4978870
>Yukari CAN, in fact, both destroy and create borders.
[citation needed]

Japanese Suigin's ultimate magic getting bested by Reimu, Marisa, Mima, and Yuka:

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Square:_Reimu%27s_Extra
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Square:_Marisa%27s_Extra
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Square:_Mima%27s_Extra
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Square:_Yuka%27s_Extra

So much for the ultimate magic...

>>4978887
It would be quite a stretch of her to do so, but couldn't barrier herself out of the part of reality she distorted?

>>4978910
it's called touhou wiki
learn2use

>>4978902
The blue part actually regards "Nothingness" as "Space where Ultimate Magic doesn't exist", not nothingness as in void of existence.

>>4978875
shut up, nerd
>>4978865
it's just a simple request
>>4978885
now i'm liking this argument more
indeed yukari might be able to pull that
however now this is a quickdraw of whoever makes the first move

>>4978910
delivered

>>4978879
ummmm no. it's in ZUN's little book, and is therefore canonical, that neither mokou or kaguya can die if they have a single hair to regenerate from

they can be injured in the same way anyone else can, they just heal themselves from it no matter what

that sounds pretty much like regeneration. and that's what ZUN means by "can't be destroyed"

>>4978912
>Alice drops the book in all cases
yyyyyep that's how she lost
the UM remains undefeated

>>4978912
Even Mima managed to defeat Alice's ultimate magic.

basically to kill Mokou and kaguya you need to make their souls disappear
I think Youmu's Roukanen can do that

>>4978932
>>4978926
Akyu words != canon

>>4978929
That's what I've been trying to explain from the beginning but I guess I suck at presenting things more so than the other Yukarifags.

Anyway, as for who makes the first move, that's up to them to decide.

I'm glad we could figure this out, Suigin, darling. Do you still love me?

>>4978954
yes

>>4978950
Did she really? the MS Extra was the last time Mima was ever seen ...

>>4978935
Actually, it's not. It's MENTIONED she can resurrect even if a single hair remains, but it's not necessarily critical or needed.

It ultimately says she can never die, and Mokou says death isn't a part of her existence, so I wouldn't think of it as a regenerative-type. More like "the void that follows isn't a part of her".

>>4978961
Alice was only beaten by Yuka
and in all scenarios it was because she dropped the book so yeah

>>4978939
If you say ultimate magic one more time I'm going to kill myself.

goood goooood continue talking about the great mima

>>4978962

Did you know? The Great Mima invented Ultimate Magic.

>>4978977
SICP

>>4978968
>and in all scenarios it was because she dropped the book so yeah
[Citation needed]

>>4978978
I HEARD SHE'S MARISA'S MOM

I HAVE A CUTE PICTURE OF CHILD MARISA AND MIMA TOGETHER SOMEWHERE

Goodnight /jp/

I have to go to bed now, but the power-level discussion sure was fun.

>>4978988
you're disgusting i would never be the mother to that fucking slut apprentice

>>4978986
Mystic Square extra after you beat her she is seen without the book in her hands

>>4978999
And THAT is your only evidence?! Oh wait:
>suigin

>>4978991
i guess i will go play RO

I hate how these gay baby arguments of "my character>your character" tend to be more intelligent than your average /jp/ discussion

>>4978999
itt alice is an idiot

>>4979011

first thing's first. People should know Alice never goes all out with her entire power/effort because she fears if she looses at her best, it's all over for her.

inb4 citation. Learn to wiki faggots

>>4979009
Next time... I'll fuck you up.

>>4978378
>>4978649
>>4978682
>>4978862
>>4978935
>>4978951
>>4978962

this is all the proof we really need to prove that Mokou can never die. Canonically, she lived forever.
Given an eternity, if something is possible it will absolutely happen. Here, she lives forever, so dying really is impossible for her.
Eugh, don't want any of that nasty elixir stuff. bad stuff, messes with your entity.

>>4979059
i bet if /jp/ drink this he will still be virgin, forever.

>>4979090
would it make a difference?

>>4979090
if i drank any of it i'd jump off of a building i wouldn't have to worry about dying haha

>>4979119
it'd hurt like shit

Since the Suigin and the Yukari guy(s) have left I declare this moonbitch the winner. Reimu kicked Yuka's ass back in Lotus Land Story, despite the fact that she was still new at slaying youkai. Reimu also managed to defeat Yukari in a spellcard battle in PCB.

Toyohime managed to defeat Reimu in her prime, along with Marisa, Remilia, and Sakuya. She did this without breaking a sweat. The master spark (a.k.a Yuka's strongest attack) was deflected with ease. Not even a double master spark worked. Now if you excuse her she has some rabbits she needs to exercise with fuck.

goddamn it, Imissed the thread. Anyone post omega stong tan and the ex-version?

>>4979119
yeah, still alive with all your bones broken, is that what you want ?

>>4977273
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well powerlevels of Touhou charaters can be sumed up in one easy formula: every single touhou character>Cirno.
The rest is in the eye of the beholder

>>4979279
No. Cirno is way more competent than several Youkai, say Rumia or Nazrin.

>>4979299
Nazrin would rape Cirno in combat.

>>4979553
How exactly? With the pagoda she doesn't have?

>>4979553
Cirno is a playable character meaning she can defeat EX level bosses.

>>4979279

>implying Rumia is stronger then Cirno

>>4979127

>spellcard battle

That's the key, right there. Yukari was limited, while Yuka in that battle was not.

All this talk about boundaries made me wonder:
Why can't Yukari just manipulate the boundary between existance and inexistance? Not even hourai people can "survive" this.
Or she could manipulate the border between the past and the present and kill anyone before they are immortal/powerfull/born/ect.

>>4980176

Likely? She could.

>>4979961
It's still unknown if Reimu's victory in PCB extra was canon. The stories that followed PCB implies Reimu was unsuccessful with her encounter with Yukari.

Guys for fuck's sake, borders don't actually exist, they are abstractions applied by the mind to differentiate between adjacent fields. And even if Yukari's power was based on that abstraction, she would be powerless to merge fields that are not adjacent.She can't just make up random borders between time and penises or something, because there's hardly any relation between the two.

Or consider the theoretical border between, say, heat and cold. There isn't really a border here at all, hot and cold are just two extremes on a single sliding scale. Similarly, there's no border between people and goats: both are animals with wide ranges of variability even within their own groups, and there are a million other animals, too, whose theoretical borders would also have to be placed.

Do you have any idea how absurd this is?

>>4980839
>http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Yukari_Yakumo

>The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.

>As you know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries. If there was no water surface, there could be no lake. If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist. If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.

>If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object. Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is an ability of logical creation and destruction. It essentially creates a new being, or denies the existence of a being.

>Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of most dangerous, being even comparable to the power of gods.

>>4980887
>物理的な空間だけでなく、絵の中や夢の中、物語の中等
>にも移動する事も出来るという。
>It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.

>>4980887
I suddenly remember the article which states Reisen's wave powers undermining the fabric of reality and yet she is a character that is never considered strong

>>4980899
...

IT'S BOLO TIME, BABY!

>>4980908
That's because fans don't want a Reisen that's strong.
They'd rather have her be steadfast but weak.

And they love the concept of a sadistic Yuka, a mastermind Yukari, etc. So they pick and choose what they like. Canon doesn't count for all that much if people actively reject bits of it.

>>4980887

So fine, Yukari can manipulate boundaries between ADJACENT FIELDS between PHYSICAL OBJECTS, such as the mountains, lake or sky. She can evaporate a person or dump shit into their guts until they split open. I mentioned this, and it's just as well: if she didn't have this, she'd have no power at all.But she still can't manipulate concepts like time or hunger that have no actual relation to each other and thus no border between them, let alone physical forms. Nor could she manipulate placement on scales of extremity like heat and cold. Her power has limits, and yes, the limit of her power is also a border she would be unable to move. It's just an abstraction based on her relationship with others.

>>4980839
>She can't just make up random borders between time and penises or something, because there's hardly any relation between the two.
Actually there is. If Yukari was to manipulate the border between time and your penis. It would return to its flaccid state before you saw this image.

There are billions of boundaries I could name in front of your face alone. Everything in this universe has a boundary. PM was accurate.

>>4980936
Here and There, Now and Then, Life and Death.

>>4980922
see:
>>4980899

>>4980936

>Everything in this universe has a boundary.

Except that boundaries don't actually exist. I explained this. For the sake of suspension of disbelief, I can live with the idea that she can move, create, or eliminate boundaries between adjacent physical objects, despite the fact that they are just abstractions and that on molecular terms this power is bullshit. I mean, this is what she does. She moves around in time and space through little singularities and fucks with shit.

But simply making up random "boundaries" between completely unrelated concepts is just taking an extremely vague power and redefining it until it does exactly what you want.

>>4980944

All I'm seeing is a power that's just more vague than all the others.

>>4980919
Reisen is not strong. (And this is coming from a fan that wouldn't mind if she was strong.) If my memory serves me correctly. Reisen came whining to Eirin that the Americans were killing the comrades - she abandoned. It also said she fled for her life.

If she had any ounce of power she would have wiped the floor with the Americans instead of allowing her fellow moon rabbits to die. In PoFV Shiki said Reisen is guilty of abandoning her own comrades in order to save herself.

I mean, on the one hand we can take what Yukari tends to do or is known to have done, assume that her powers are mainly the things she does all the time, and theorize on the basis of logic what it all really means,

or on the other hand we can just decide that as this is the most vague power imaginable, "Power over stuff in relation to other stuff", and just conclude that it fucking does everything.

>>4981048

To clarify: because nothing can exist or even really *not* exist without doing so in relation to basically everything else. Even abstractions like time and space are created to show relationships between things.

fuck this happens every time I come to /jp/.

>>4980983
>But simply making up random "boundaries" between completely unrelated concepts
But 'dreams' and 'stories' are made up yet in PM it's said she has the power to manipulate the boundaries between them. Also, if you're assuming she only has the power to manipulate the boundaries between physical things, how do you explain her manipulation of the boundaries between life and the afterlife? You're trying to use science to explain Shinto mythology, and that my friend is futile. There's a reason why they said it's a power that's capable of undermining the fundamental realities of our universe; there's a reason why they said it's on par with the gods.

I'll admit Yukari isn't half as powerful as we say she is but her border hax is well documented. Until I hear ZUN say PM isn't canon Yukari does indeed have god hax. The time it takes her to manipulate these boundaries on the other hand is mere fanon speculation. Also, manipulating a boundary for a given phenomena, probably takes a lot of energy/time/concentration.

>>4981192

I can settle for this.

Is the powerlevel discussion over?

Ran (PMiSS) entry:
>この最強の妖獣を従え、主に雑用を命じているのが最強の妖怪、八雲紫
である（＊２）。
>Naturally, the one who has enslaved this strongest of the youkai beasts and uses her for various mundane tasks is the strongest youkai, Yukari Yakumo (*2).

>>4980919
In PMiSS, Reisen (along with Tewi) is in the beast youkai category. It was stated multiple times that Ran is the strongest of the beast youkai.

>>4981192
>time/concentration
It should be duly noted that Yukari has the brain of a supercomputer as seen in an interview with Ran:

On 〇 month 〇 day, the mathematics magician calculated the width of the Sanzu River, surprising related parties. This river isn't fixed in width; rather, it is famous for extreme length changes according to various factors. Because of this, calculating the width of the river has been understood to be impossible. The mathematics magician who accomplished this feat is Ran Yakumo (Shikigami). She's usually strong with numbers, being able to answer complicated equations instantly, startling those around her.

・・・・・・
・・・・・・
・・・・・・

You think up a new formula, and you create a formula that will solve it. So your master...is better at numbers than you are? It goes without saying that there is no comparison. I could neither solve nor understand Miss Yukari's equations. How terrifying.... Miss Yukari would determine not only the Sanzu's width, but its bottomless depth as well. She'd find out how long it would take Ursa Major to devour the North Star, all in an instant. Normally all she does is sleep, but the instant she opens her mouth, she gives orders no one else would think up.

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Article_and_Interview:_Ran

The more I post the more my beloved Yukari sounds like a Mary Sue. I think this will be it for tonight.

Now that nobody is looking.

Thanks for this thread Suigin. My harddrive and motherboard died a month ago so I had to go weeks without Internet. Once I finally returned to /jp/ I felt a distance between myself and this community. Absolutely no thread was relevant to my interest, but this silly thread jump started my interest in /jp/. I still think you're dead wrong about youkai moe, but I'm starting to respect you. Here's to hoping we can do this again some time.

>>4984099
>Now that nobody is looking.
B-but this thread is currently at the top of the ghost board!

>>4984121
Well shit.

nerds