/jp/ - Otaku Culture

batman didnt have to

Yes, but instead of bullets it shot swords. And instead of being a gun it was just nothing.

>>4861786

Archer isn't Bats.

I just find it really odd that Archer ended up so damn good with Kanshou and Byakuya (where did he get that in his timeline anyway??) which is an archaic way of fighting.

>>4861796

Archer is Shirou, and Shirou learned to fight by watching Archer.

It's like an endless time-loop.

>>4861828

Really? I thought that a different Archer was summoned in EMIYA's past.

>>4861796

Well, where did he get Caladbolg and Rho Aias? Nobody's really sure.

Kanshou and Bakuya are perfect for Shirou, though, since Shirou is not really a swordfighter. Shirou's a swordsmith, and Gan Jiang and Mo Ye's swords are weapons that were crafted purely for the sake of forging perfect swords.

>>4861843

Not confirmed.

>>4861828

Archer hasn't mentioned knowing himself, though.

Well, Shirou has to get something back for all that time spent in the archery range.

Yes, he used guns.

He also had a bit longer hair and fought against demons.

Plus he went under a different alias.

>>4861855

It can go either way huh? Archer had an odd life and past.

It's been mentioned that he can't just trace NPs from diagrams and pictures right? Maybe something big went down in the future and he got to see them.

>>4861792

He probably did do this. But it consumes mana, so I really think he resorts to guns whenever possible. Or archery? That would be outdated too though.

>>4861873

>It's been mentioned that he can't just trace NPs from diagrams and pictures right?

He can if he can understand the spirit behind their creation, which would be hard from a mere blueprint.

Perhaps he read a lot of legends, or merely saw what he wields from when he crossed with Gilgamesh in his life.

>He probably did do this. But it consumes mana, so I really think he resorts to guns whenever possible. Or archery? That would be outdated too though.

It does not consume much mana to launch a projected sword (at least judging by the rate he used it in the UBW route), though you probably don't get much distance with it.

Furthermore, he's a master archer who never misses unless when he wants to.

>>4861873
Given that he has an armor and a bow made of materials not found on earth in the present times, I'd suspect a fuckload happened.

>>4861888

Also he knows of a sword that never misses ANYWAY.

Who the fuck made this sword to be fired from a bow? It's not even a II modification like Caladbolg.

Theory 1: Archer wasn't EMIYA in his own timeline
Archer got lots and lots of weapons from gate of babylon
Traveled the world, found some other things and then became a hero and died.
During his counter guardian work he encountered each and every bladed weaponry in existence and they all were recorded by UBW, truly having it contain an infinite number of blades.

Theory 2: Archer was EMIYA in his own timeline - timeparadox etc
He may have gotten lots of weapons from Gilgamesh.
However he at one time or another downloaded the content from Archer's UBW, either by venturing into it himself or being exposed to him for a longer amount of time, giving him the infinite weapons Archer had collected.

>>4861899
I wonder if his ability to trace swords also applies to swords he has created himself?

>>4861904

It's implied that he did not have Gilgamesh's ENTIRE set until the UBW route climax, when he observed Shirou take on the entire Gate of Babylon.

By the line, "he acquired the weaponry of the king of heroes", at least.

>>4861855
I thought Kan Tsiang and Mo Ye swords were forged for the sake of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I CAN'T MELT METEOR ORE BETTER THROW MY WIFE AT IT"

>>4861919
The power of love makes the best swords.

>>4861919

No, that's HOW they were forged, not WHY.

Why they were forged was to forge fuckawesome forging sk1llz.

>>4861899
>Also he knows of a sword that never misses
Hrunting
>Who the fuck made this sword to be fired from a bow?
No one, but he uses it as an arrow anyway.
Hrunting was Beowulfs weapon and it in it's legend a sword that couldn't fail, and had many similarities to Excalibur.
Hrunting, the sword that couldn't fail but failed anyway. The reason it failed however was because the person who made it wanted it to fail after it had gotten Beowulf's trust, and it did, so one can say that it actually never failed.
F/sn's Hrunting ability not to miss comes from the legend that said that it couldn't fail. Sure it was never used as a projectile but Nasu played around with it I guess.

>>4861828
No, Archer is not our Shirou.
He is a possible outcome from another reality's Shirou.

>observed Shirou take on the entire Gate of Babylon
Gilgamesh never used all his weapons against anyone, not even in f/z or f/ha.

>>4861938

Exactly. It's not a time loop, it's OH GOD THE KALEIDOSCOPE I CAN SEE FOREVER

When the fuck will Nasu finally make a story based on Archer?

>>4861944
Too bad Shirou never becomes Archer in HF.
Beamspam would've been pretty cool.

>>4861904

Theory 1 could work. I didn't think of the possibility that he didn't have a complete set when he was alive.

>>4861888
>>4861899

Since as a superhero, he has no qualms about honor and such, I suspect he sniped a lot of bad guys from afar with that. And when they got close he just practiced his swordplay for some strange reason.

Are there any beasts were modern weaponry isn't effective?

>>4861943

We don't know how long they were going at it, really.

It was apparently a sizable portion of the Gate if not the whole thing.

Unless you're counting the fact that he lost 4 weapons forever since he wouldn't take them back after they touched Cthulhu.

>>4861950
>Are there any beasts where modern weaponry isn't effective?

Shoggoths.

>>4861950

>Are there any beasts were modern weaponry isn't effective?

gugugugu...

About Kanshou and Bakuya. In most legends the swords are never used by anyone, thus never killed anyone.
They were instead made to be as good swords as possible, not tools of death, rather, good swords.

This can be combined with a western view of swords (mostly from old medieval poetry) that saw swords as a tool to achieve ones goals, meet ones ideal.
Excalibur was the perfect sword and with it, it was said one was able to achieve any goal and fulfill any ideal, but the arturian legend had its ups and downs and in the end, the fraility of man could have been the reason for it to end the way it did.

Either way, if one combine those views one could see Kanshou and Byakuya to have been made to be as good tools to meet ones ideal as possible, seeing it this way combined witht he fact that they were never meant to be tools of death and have in fact never killed anyone, then the swords truly are fitting for Archer.

>>4861980

I never really thought of it that way, but that's pretty good.

Archer keeps on destroying them though (that says something about him, I'm sure). I wonder what happened to the original? And is Archer's reproduction as strong as the originals.

>>4861916
That line doesn't exist

>>4862016
>And is Archer's reproduction as strong as the originals.
They are until he remembers they're reproductions. Then they're less sturdy than cardboard tubes.

>>During his counter guardian work he encountered each and every bladed weaponry in existence
Uh no.

>>4862016
>And is Archer's reproduction as strong as the originals.

1 rank lower since he cannot truly and completely grasp the principles behind the sword's making.

Maybe he could bypass it if it was a sword he personally forged.

>>4862033

Point. A counter only is a copy, the soul never leaves the Throne. No memories are added to the soul. So...that theory is out.

>>4862033
I thought Earth's pet heroes didn't have any memories besides those before their death ?

>>4862016
Then again, he's putting them through quite the abuse.
Swords aren't made to hit other swords.

>>4862046

Read

>>4862043

Unless they got called up during a Grail War, that is right. Soul never leaves the Throne, outside of the War.

>>4862048

What the fuck? Of course they are.

>>4862046
>>4862043
They do get the memories, just in a third person way. Archer likens it to reading a book.

>>4862051
No, they're not. Swords are made to cut. Shields are made to block swords.

Blocking a sword with your sword should be avoided whenever possible because it significantly damages the blade.

They don't even get a book they get a digest version.

>>4862070

It's probably extremely dry and methodical with no descriptors.

On June 6, Archer killed 600 people. Their names follow

One July 20 Archer killed 76 people. Their names follow

On August 18 Archer killed one person. Their names follow

etc. etc. Boring lists filled with the staggering amounts of people you kill on the job.

>>4862054

>Note that in no moment at all the soul of the hero leaves the Throne of Heroes, and what really descends upon the earth when the services of the Heroic Spirit is needed is merely a copy of him created based on the information stored on the Throne. This copy will lack the ego of the original and, when there is no longer a need for the hero’s presence, it will just disappear without relaying any knowledge acquired back to the “main body” in the Throne. However, it is possible for this main body to become aware to some extent of what happened by accessing the records of Akasha.

To a degree, at best.

>>4862060

Stop making shit up. That's only katanas.

Western blades are made to block other blades.

>>4862086
It's ought to be more than just that.
Archer clearily stated how he remembered how awful it felt and how he loathed doing it.
He made it really convincing at least.

>>4862091
It seems to be enough of a degree, though, since Archer seems pretty pissed off about his job.

I doubt he'd get that angry about it if he didn't even have access to most of the information.

>>4862094
Almost, they aren't made "for" it, they do get damaged.
Though as opposed to the katana they are made to be able to do it.

So yeah, western swords can block other swords without it being that much of a deal.

>>4862094
Nah, man. Western blades come, broadly, in two varieties, and the one which doesn't take significant damage from impact is also too heavy to reliably block with. People who wield that kind of sword are either heavily armored or crazy.

>>4862095

He's enough of an odd case that he might be breaking some other rules as well. Perhaps that was part of his dealie with the World, to keep memories, or some shit.

>>4862102

Alright, fair enough.

Cliffs notes can be pretty convincing too.

>>4862108
Yeah, at the very least, World wants useful people and Archer gets more useful the more weaponry he sees. Giving him memories isn't a bad idea from World standpoint.

>>4862111
You'd know.

>>4862113
That's not the way it works. Why not make all heroic spirits build up experience after death then?

Yes Heroic Spirits do retain their memories in a rather crude way.

I don't remember exactly how or when it's stated though so I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that UBW is considered seperate from the body and the clone within the throne of heroes, and UBW seems to have it's own memory of sorts.

One thing I do know however is that Durandal in f/sn is (was) blessed with 3 wishes, though one was used in the original legend prior to Archer gaining the sword.
Though it was said that this blessing outranks UBW itself and thus cannot be reproduced meaning that if Archer were to project Durandal and use one of the wishes, one of the two remaining wishes were to dissapear forever, even if he were to re-create the sword.
I believe this was stated somewhere within the many different side material things they have released, the thing about Durandal having miracles though can be found in the weapons menu of f/sn.

But yeah, I have forgotten things but I believe UBW keeps the information recorded even when the copy(archer) is lost. It would also explain how Archer got the many things he has. Gilgamesh has the originals, but Archer doesn't only have the originals, he has the weapons from the stories based on them as well. And I also doubt Gilgamesh would throw shields at him.

>>4862137
>And I also doubt Gilgamesh would throw shields at him.
You never know. I mean, he pulled out a spaceship, so anything's possible.

>>4862141
He pulled a "shield" against Ilya of all people. Him summoning Rho Aias against a stray arrow or to soften and Excaliblast isn't unthinkable.

Professional swordsman following the teachings of the late Hans Talhoffer here.

No sword is meant to face another edge to edge.

Not the longsword, not the messer, not viking paternwelded blades, not the rapier, the backsword, or the small. The east's Katana and Dao were not meant to. Chinese falchion were not meant to. The hispanic falcata was not meant to.

The roman gladius of olde was not meant to.
Two-handed weapons were not meant to.
Nothing was meant to.

A blade-on-blade impact results in serious damage done to the edges of both weapons, and in their heyday swords were all very expensive, excluding the messer which were everywhere in lower germanic states.

Oh, and on your "heaviness" argument, it proves that you don't know anything about this- even the heaviest of "flamed" blades weighed in at 5 to 6 lbs, with specific ones made for execution or ceremonial use weighing in only a few pounds in excess of this standard.

Knock another sword away either with your edge on his flat, or your flat on his edge. Never edge to edge.

>>4862145
<i>Oh, and on your "heaviness" argument, it proves that you don't know anything about this- even the heaviest of "flamed" blades weighed in at 5 to 6 lbs, with specific ones made for execution or ceremonial use weighing in only a few pounds in excess of this standard.</i>
I'm talking about the two-handed, "meant to crush, not to cut" swords. I was under the impression that some of them weigh more than ten pounds, which isn't the kind of thing you're going to be blocking with.

And that wasn't an argument to begin with.

All heroic spirits has their experiences recorded.
The main differance between Archer and the other heroic spirits is that he is also a counter guardian.

Now I bet this deosn't change anything regarding the actual recording, rather it changes what is recorded.
All heroic spirits exists outside of time, and has already been summoned infinite times already.
Even though they have been summoned an infinite number of times, what they are mostly summoned for can still differ though.
I don't know what ordinary heroic spirits are mostly summoned for as it wasn't stated as far as I know, but i could guess that they are mostly summoned for Grail Wars and similair stuff when magi find ways to bring them to their world.
Archer being a counter guardian however would mostly have been summoned for counter guardian work almost all of the times, and it has also been stated how most counter guardian work is pretty much the same.

So while ordinary Heroic Spirits for an example might try to remember something and remembers parts of perhaps hundereds or thousand different events, painting a blurry and broken picture event hought hey could remember certain bits (individual pieces of the puzzle).
If Archer were to do the same I could guess that he would remember lots and lots of different pieces, though these pieces would probably be similair enough for a somewhat whole picture to be made as the individual pieces would somewhat fit each other due to the events being similair enough.

A theory.

Who the fuck decided it was a good idea to put a time limit on deleting posts?

>>4862145
>Oh, and on your "heaviness" argument, it proves that you don't know anything about this- even the heaviest of "flamed" blades weighed in at 5 to 6 lbs, with specific ones made for execution or ceremonial use weighing in only a few pounds in excess of this standard.
I'm talking about the two-handed, "meant to crush, not to cut" swords. I was under the impression that some of them weigh more than ten pounds, which isn't the kind of thing you're going to be blocking with.

And that wasn't an argument to begin with.

Archer isn't Juuza.

He didn't join the army or anything, and in FSN he can just shoot magical swords that most likely do more damage than guns because guns mean fuck all in a magical fantasy setting.

>>4862179
No, they do more damage because they're super special awesome miracle weapons.

If he just shot normal swords, they'd definitely suck.

'Sup Proto-me.

>>4862168
>I'm talking about the two-handed, "meant to crush, not to cut" swords. I was under the impression that some of them weigh more than ten pounds, which isn't the kind of thing you're going to be blocking with.

No, the weights I listed were infact for two-handed weapons of the greatest sizes which saw use.

There is no such thing as this "meant to crush, not to cut" sword you're speaking of. None of them weighed ten pounds.

Berserk is a manga, and not reality. Just when I thought I wasn't on a board for children, too.

>>4862145
>Professional swordsman

That sounds like a pretty awesome job.

>>4862198
My social anxiety compels me to dodge shifts teaching any junior classes my school runs.
Other than that, its pretty good.

>>4862196
>None of them weighed ten pounds.
Google disagrees. Get the fuck out.

>>4862196
>There is no such thing as this "meant to crush, not to cut" sword you're speaking of.
correct.
>None of them weighed ten pounds.
you are an ignorant manchild.

I'm an ignorant manchild, eh?
Good thing ARMA keeps essays out of the members area for this stuff.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm

>>4862192
Archer, Hakumen, Nanaya Shiki, and Juuza walk into a bar. Everyone else in the bar instantly explodes due to the manliness overload. And the TIME PARADOX, I suppose.

GUNS? The guy used a fucking GUNDAM.

>>4862221
too bad for you, I've seen a few claymores in a museum in england. Swords greater than 10 pounds absolutely existed.

that doesn't mean that they were particularly useful or even a good idea

People think guns aren't magical, pah.


You ever her the story of that Polish Sniper who killed over 500 Russians? All from atop a tree in the snow? yeah.

>>4862234
>swords
>particularly useful or even a good idea
Well, there's your contradiction.

Also, I would like to revise my statement to "meant to cut with weight, not with sharpness."

>>4862232
Why don't you go back to double teaming your girlfriend with Yzak?

You know, the one whose boyfriend you killed.

>>4862234
You didn't.
You may have seen swords that the museum's staff decided weighed in at ten pounds in original condition, or perhaps even ridiculous reproduction attempts of legitimate relics that ended up weighing 10 lbs because the makers didn't understand mechanics like distal tapering and it's effects on blade dynamics.

I am more skeptical than you could possibly imagine.

>>4862266
Well, yeah.

I mean, your uncle works at Nintendo--err, you're a professional swordsman, so you have good reason to know better.

>>4862191
I don't know, Archer shot Hrunting above the speed of mach 13. He did the whole magical chargan thing, but that was for attack power, charging it with energy so that it would explode.
It could be entirly plausible that he normally shoots most swords at approximately that speed.

>>4862224
>nanaya
>time paradox

wut

>>4862275
Well, yeah, but a normal sword shot at that speed still wouldn't do shit to a servant, which was really the point.

God damn, whoever is posting this 3dpd has to stop.

>>4862291
A sword at mach speed would do more damage than an ordinary gun. Against magical beings none of that would matter though.

>>4862351

Archer fought against the evils of the world. Vanilla humans outnumber magical ones, so it stands to reason that he probably killed his fair share of them.

Guns really aren't out of the question. His heroic spirit probably didn't just register it as part of his portfolio, or it did in some backhanded way by assigning him as an archer.

In the war, he produces his NPs because those are the things that can fight with them on par. He didn't use one gun as a signature weapon or anything as well. As a practical man, he probably had a lot of methods to deal with a lot of threats. So those didn't pass on as an NP.

Maybe he can use those skills and weapons as a counter guardian though? I have no idea.

>>4862165

It would be pretty easy to form a coherent picture when the pieces basically amount to, "Killed a lot. Lots of innocent people dead" again and again.

Since that same thing is repeated until infinity, it wouldn't be out of the question for Archer to be bitter. It's easier for him to see the big picture.

I think we can resolve this by just realizing that in the Nasuverse old shit > new shit. Swords are in the category of old shit, so it wouldn't be all that weird for EMIYA to run around a civil war in Africa taking people down with guns while dodging AK rounds. At least, in the Nasuverse. In real life, that's just retarded.

>>4862242

Actually, the sniper was Finnish. He was called "the White Death". And he did NOT have a scope.

Also a very tiny little man.

>>4861945

Sometime I hope. I'd love to see at least a light novel series like Fate/Zero based on Archer's past. (Preferably written by the same guy . . .) It would be insanely tragic, but the last book of the light novel series should have him being summoned to the Fifth Grail War and at least that copy of him gets a Good End.

Even though there will always be an Emiya in the Throne as a Counter Guardian, no matter what.

Also, random Archer pic for awesomeness.

>>4862848

He also got like half his face blown the fuck off, and it STILL did not kill the guy. Overall, rather impressive.

>>4862618

>st the evils of the world

No, not really. He just fought against anything that would END MAN-KIND. The would did not matter in the least, oddly enough.

>>4862232

Enjoy the sword that never misses your heart. At match speed.

>>4862127

That's where half of the argument is coming from, but, Archer is a bit of an odd case, so, there is reasonable doubt that some rules might be bent or broken for him.

>>4863038
>Match speed

LOL

>>4863049
LMAO ROFFLECOPTER

>>4863057
Stop doing that. "Sarcastic" all-caps retard-speak is no longer considered a good counter.

are you guys net fighting again

>>4863089
u mad?

>>4863089
I believe you wanted to quote >>4863049

>>4863038
See, Nasu's bull shit about modern day people not going to the Throne is Bullshit. You tell me that the White Death or someone like Rommel don't need to go the throne.

I mean, Archer was probably sniping at people at mach speed with an arrow that never misses the heart. He wasn't using guns or anything like that. (Okay, so he made his deal with the world . . .) But the man saved the world when he was ALIVE. (Then proceeded to get shafted for it.)

>>4863203
Archer made a deal with the world to save a thousand or so miserable people that were fated to die. He didn't save the world.

>>4863226
Fascinating.

>Gan Jiang and Mo Ye's swords are weapons that were crafted purely for the sake of forging perfect swords.

They're not perfect swords. They were swords that held meaning. The reason Archer is so attracted to them is because they're conceptually beautiful, simple, and full of meaning. As weapons go, they're not strong.

>>4863226
Also, the thousand miserable people ended up turning on him and sentencing him to death.

Feels bad man.

>>4863226
According to tatatatatari, it was for a hundred people.
And he got executed because of one person he saved some other time, not the same 100.
I remember that saving the world part being mentioned SOMEWHERE.

>>4863380

I think it's mentioned that he saved the world numerous times.

And I still think he would use a gun. It's stupid of him not to, at least when up against evil mortals.

How can you guys take Archer seriously when you know he's just that fag Shirou as an emo adult?

I thought he was pretty badass until I read his past.

Archer is a bitter faggot who didn't like his job.

Like that fry cook from McDonalds.

>>4863380
They were still miserable, so it's close enough. I just woke up.

>>4863410
>>4863421

>They see me trollin'.

Wait, how did Archer know he had been killing people as a counter guardian. Aren't servants supposed to be heroes at the time of their prime, which would mean before his death?
Only the one in the throne of Akasha should be disgusted with his actions.

>>4863438
Guardians are different. They have memories of everything they do when they're summoned.

>>4863438
The Archer in the throne can "read" about what he does as a CG.

>>4863454
Wait, what? I'm pretty sure UBW's epilogue implied >>4863455

>>4863455
Yes but the servant isn't the one from the throne, is it?
So it shouldn't acquire any information, even from its duty as a guardian.

IIRC, EMIYA became a heroic spirit because of his selflessness, not because of his battle prowess.

>>4863471
He became a heroic spiric because he saved 100 people who could not be saved.

>>4863466
That's basically what I said.

>>4863470
Servants are copies of the heroes in the throne, but their actions are recorded.

>>4863470
Servants are copies of the spirits in the Throne.
Most do not get updated with info.
Archer as a Counter Giuardian does.

I've never played the fate stay night, don't think I ever will, it's just not my kind of story. So, he can summon Caladbolg and he doesn't just spam that 24/7? That's the most powerful sword ever known. It becomes a rainbow when swung and it cut the tops of 3 mountains with one swing. Everything else is pussy level.

>>4863650
Well, let us just say that since he is not Ulster born, he cannot use it properly.
Also, all weapons/abilities have been modified and rebalanced under a universal setting.

>>4863666
Ahhh. I'd never heard of a restriction on Caladbolg being only used by an Irishman but I guess so.

You should all read the Tain Bo Cuailgne that sword is beyond epic level.

>>4863710
Except its irish, so its weak

>>4863710
If you are NOT the hero who is supposed to use it, it just will not work well.

>>4863710
Loss due to translation and variations
Caladbolg -> Caliburn -> Excalibur
They may very well be the same sword from the same story retold and retold.

>>4863438
Archer says it to Saber himself during UBW.

Yes, he killed people when he was alive, but at the end of his life time he died happy. You know, despite being betrayed by someone he saved and executed. He also thought as a Counter Guardian he was going to save people and was cool with that.

Just the World didn't tell him exactly what he was doing until AFTER it was too late.

>>4863454
I only think that it is easier for them to remember due to the different circuimstances regarding their summons.
Experiences following the same conditions as other heroic spirits would most likely be hard for them to remember as well.

>>4863475

No, man, he made a pact with the....fuckit, I'm getting the wiki.

>>4863931
He is right and you are right.
Archer to the World:
'Give me the Power to be a Hero, and I will serve you.'
Archer gets power.
Archer saves 100 people who were destined to DIE.
Archer becomes truly a hero, thanks to power boost.
After death, Archer serves.

>>4863931

>In order to save about a hundred people that were dying in front of him in a calamity, for the sake of saving just the lives that his eyes could see and for the sake of, after his death, saving even more lives as a Heroic Spirit, he made a contract with the world and became a hero. Although he desperately fought to end a certain war, he was branded as the mastermind behind that war and executed. His belief that he would continue to save many people as a Heroic Spirit didn’t come to pass, but rather he was made to clean up after human actions and forced to kill many more people to save humanity as a whole instead. After being shown human self-destruction and forced to oppose his own ideals countless times, he began to deny himself and his ideal. Archer came to believe that his only hope of release was to be called into an era where Emiya Shirou exists and kill him, creating a time paradox which could potentially erase his existence as a Counter-Guardian.

There we go.

>>4863983
Isn't it sad, Archer?

>>4864194

Pretty much.You know you are hating life if your grand master plan is killing yourself in the past.

>>4864278
Except it is not LIFE.

>>4864286
Man, trying to erase your AFTERlife . . . that's pretty intense.

Yet he has the sweetest smile at the end of UBW that makes me want to protect him and keep him from the big, bad world.

>>4864286

Half-life. Thing. Whatever. you know what I mean. Existence?

>>4864447
No, I do not.
I do not think you do either.

Existence is about the best I can say. Dude is trying to get his own soul deleted.

>>4864579
Not really, he wants to stop being DRAFTED FROM THE GRAVE. Cause usually, when you die, that is it.
He wants the actual REST, the means to do it is a different story.
His problem is not 'Man, existing in any form is a pain'.

Nah, that was really more Kiritsugu's thing. You see, when maguses activate their magic circuits their body heat increases. So he had his waifu and Saber act as a decoy while he used thermal goggles to find the Master, and then shot them in the fucking back. Aw yeah.

>>4864609
EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SERVE