/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>46972845
Done. Now what?

>>46972845
>>46972870
PAIZURI

>>46972872
What the fuck that is not an activity for beings seeking enlightenment!

>>46972946
I need paizuri or else I'll die!

I pray to Byakuren-sama's huge tits every day. The most divine object of worship at Myouren Temple.

Damn, another Byakuren thread, cant wait for it to share the same fate as Ran threads and become shit.

Hijirin truly is a great teacher to all who would wish to become Boddhisatvas. Her body is the pinnacle of worldly desires, unrivaled in carnal beauty.

>>46972845
Make me.

No matter how much satanic magic you cast to make yourself younger and sexier, you will always be a saggy hag

>>46972946
It brings a new form of Enlightenment however.

>>46975006
Yeah, ever heard of post nut clarity? That's enlightenment right there

I bet Hijiri doing an akira slide would be pretty rad.
Whoever decided she should get a bike and a skintight biker outfit deserves a raise.

Reciting the Danmaku Sutra with Byakuren!

Every day from now on you will burn down a temple.

>>46972845
who am i praying to, the buddha? lol

buddhism is cool byak, i follow the whole 'empty and unavoidable karmic cycle of misery' shtick to the tee, but am i supposed to follow some god to lead me into oblivion? seems a bit wack if you ask me

>>46972872
>>46972946
>>46972994
>>46974525
>>46981315
If Rin is the paizuri rape 2hu, then Byakuren is the tender loving consensual paizuri 2hu.

>>46981386
i don't know if she can feel love but it's probably a close enough facsimile

Byakuren is just a fucking slut and liar, besides she hates humans and she only gets away with all her shit because she has booba

>>46982072
Anon with the brass tacks.

>>46977569
It depends on the strand of Buddhism, Pure Land Buddhists for example pray to Amitabha, which is the Buddha of Eternal Life. Like all Buddhas, he was once human, and now guides people to reincarnate into something called a "Pure Land", a blissful realm where achieving nirvana is easier. Some recite his name to reincarnate into the Pure Lands, some do it out of gratitude because he will save everyone. One might call him a god, but he was not involved in the creation of the universe, he simply has his own world.

Zen and Nichiren buddhists do pray, but for them the religion is more about meditation and trying to achieve enlightenment and following the Bodhisattva path, which basically means trying to achieve enlightenment as stated. This is all under the Mahayana sect of Buddhism, the one Byakuren follows and the most popular one in Japan.

Prayer for Buddhists in the sense of meditation is more to get closer to enlightenment than to be saved by a higher power (unless we're talking about pure land Buddhists). when they do praise the Buddha, it is mostly out of reverence, the Buddha (Siddharta Gautama) does not use his supernatual abilities (which some even reject) to save people. Only Amitabha does that.

>>46987193
I should correct myself, it's not only Amitabha that does this but mostly. Also the general point is that Buddhists pray to Bodhisattvas and the ones they pray to, if they do, depends on temple sect etc. Some even pray to Prince Shotoku for example. No, really! He is depicted as a Bodhisattva in certain temples.

>>46987193
It's also worth noting that it's specifically the Shingon Sect that is the most popular in Japan, which is a derivative of Mahayana, but calling them the same thing isn't wholly accurate.

>>46987193
More specificaly, Byakuren is from Shingon Buddhism. They have a whole very elaborate system where they engage in prayer, meditation and visualization excercises in attempt to take on the positive characteristics of various deities and Boddhisattvas for the goal of achieving enlightenment faster.

I don't remember if this is influence from Tibetan Buddhism (which has basicaly same kind of practices) or if the tantric influence (which is very present in Tibetan Buddhism) came from another route to Shingon.

Some conceptualize these practices as being closer to "magic" than "prayer" or "meditation". Byakuren being a Buddhist magican is probably an extension of this. There's also a very general Asian idea that good enough meditators develop supernatural powers, so there's that too.

I don't know if practioners of Shingon have secret techniques for superhuman physical capability or becoming immortal via working with youkai. But since it's an initiatory religon and the members aren't supposed to spread their secrets to the outside world I don't know. I doubt I will be finding out any time soon as the initiation process is something like 20 hours of meditation and prayer daily for 100 days.

>>46987278
Thank you for the clarification, Anon, in truth I wasn't familiar to which sect or Buddhist group Byakuren belonged to.

I know Shingon is known for, like you pointed out, its elaborate practices and rituals.

To address your final point about immortality, and superhuman capabilities, Kukai is still believed to be meditating in Mt. Koya, but beyond that there are a lot of secrets about it since, like you said, it's a religion that focuses a lot on practices known only by its insiders.

Okay guys, listen, There's been a lot of rumors about Hijiri that are frankly dangerous and I must quickly dispel them before someone gets hurt!
Hijiri is not a lewd woman or even slightly amorous, so don't try to flirt with her! I know she's incredibly beautiful, but she's far too busy dealing with the temple matters! And the tactics I've heard people discuss are frankly outrageous! She definitely won't appreciate you complimenting her or giving her words of affirmation like "you're so lovely" and "You're doing so well". Don't even think about asking if you can touch her hair, because she'll absolutely say NO and won't invite you to sit closer to her so you can smell her rosy scent!

>>46987456
You forgot the most absurd strategy doing the rounds in the village: Telling her you really admire her work ethic and would be happy to help out around the Temple, or give her a massage after a long day. Really wild ideas some of these people come up with.

>>46987278
Which 2hu wife for a Shugendo feel?

>>46987302
It's a throaway line at the bottom of her entry in Touhou wiki, I'm not even sure where exactly in the games in print works it's mentioned, so take it with a salt of grain. It would make a lot of sense though.

>>46988211
Shugendo is interestingly enough completely missing from Touhou. As far as I know there is nothing explicitly based on it in there.

Slut. Services more cocks in a day than Sanae and Kasen combined.

They were right, if youre into Touhou for too long you end up writing fanfiction to make the character you like less morally terrible.
Is it over for me? I just thought Byakuren was cute, I didnt want any of this.
Fuck.

>>46995470
Trust me, anon. I can fix her. I definitely won't end up causing her to relapse into the same sort of paranoid clinginess that led her to seek immortality after her brother died.

>>46972845
Sorry Byakuren, I'm Catholic

>>46987278
Byakuren isn't Shingon, she's Zen.

>>46995470
One of the most popular doujins out there right now is Ladies of Koumakan where all the characters are kinda gay and funny instead of the monstruous man-eaters they are in canon. Another one of my favorite doujins ever are the Bomber Grape ones which are just absurd comedy using the characters.

You can take the interpretation you like the most and make something out of it. You can make they silly or edgy or violent or gay or whatever. Just b urself. Of course your creation won't appeal to everyone, but in the end what matters is that it's genuinely what you like, not an appeal to the masses

>>46988211
>>46988389
The tengu wear shugendo hats, for what that's worth.

>>46996736
>kinda gay
everyone in risui's doujins are full gay

>>46972845
Okay.

>>46988211
>>46988389
>>46996738
In japanese buddhism, there was a belief that, in addition to the six paths of reincarnation, there's also a "tengu realm" where fallen practitioners could end up. This is why they're often depicted in the garb of yamabushi.

There are legends of benevolent tengu giving aid to human buddhists and protecting temples, and even disguising themselves as humans so they could serve as monks.

In Shugendo, there are several tengu who are considered "gongen," meaning they're full Buddhas with the appearance of earth spirits.

So Aya might be a Buddha, a former bad monk or a shugendo practitioner herself. I personally lean towards the "former bad monk" option. Or maybe she's just a tengu who likes funny hats.

>>46997276
No Buddha would ever become a journalist.

>>46995470
I think the various character portrayals are so varied and contradictory that you are pretty much invited to make your own version of them anyway.
>>46996643
Where is this stated? If this is really the case, I would like to know.
>>46996738
>>46997276
Interesting. I actually didn't know that.

>>46972845
I pray to one day bury my penis completely in your tits, Byakuren!

>>47000501
>Where is this stated?
Her Lotus Eaters chapter and the Myouren Temple section of the TTRPG.
However, in Who's Who ZUN does say that
>Among Buddhist concepts, I'm conscious of the feeling that she's pretty close to a hermit, giving off a strong impression of esoteric Buddhism.
Speaking of Touhou hermits (and their evolution, celestials), let's remember they used to be pretty much Buddhist-flavored creatures (see their PMiSS entries) until TD came out.

>>47000848
Thank you lore scholar. Seems like the thing about her being Shingon is disinfo then.

>>47001200
>disinfo
More like people trying to figure out what kind of branch she exactly belonged to (SoPM mentioned Mahayana without specifying further, but I guess this should have been enough to rule out Shingon?) and quickly equating original sources with Touhou's own narrative.
The real Myouren lived in Shigisan Temple, which is affiliated with Shingon Buddhism, so people thought Touhou Myouren and, by extension, his sister practiced the same thing.

>>47001200
Vajrayana is what people usually mean when they talk about "esoteric Buddhism", and it is technically part of Mahayana. The original myth was about a Shingon monk so I think it makes most sense for her to be Shingon.

>>47001422
I've heard Shingon been described as "esoteric Buddhism" many times

>>47000848
>>47001200
>>47001387
I think it's safe to say that ZUN just forgot. He's retconned the backstory of other Myouren characters in FDS too, so it makes more sense to say Shingon since that's based on Mahayana and the sect of Buddhism that is most popular in Japan.

>>47001387
>>47001422
>>47001764
How confusing!
>>47001583
Same.

>>47001764
These mentions of Zen (which is based on Mahayana by the way) are very recent.
Meanwhile at no point Shingon was ever said to be her school, it was just fan speculation. Closest thing is the generic "impression of esoteric Buddhism" in Who's Who and, if anything, this would be the forgotten/retconned element, since it predates (SCoOW vol. 7, 2019) both the other two sources (LE chapters from 2021 and TTRPG from 2023), which clearly state Zen. Plus, Zen fits her whole talk about satori and Satori back in SoPM.
At best you could argue ZUN had fun with some syncretism as he crafted her character.

>>47002010
Shingon may not have been explicitly stated, but considering Mahayana is in SoPM, and her very explicit historical basis, it makes much more sense for it to be Shingon rather than Zen. Her dialogue about Koishi could MAYBE be argued as something in favor of Zen, but the purpose of that was pretty obviously to show that Byakuren herself isn't actually the most knowledgeable when it comes to Buddhism, or even in general, as we see in ULiL. And again, this sort of retconning isn't out of character for ZUN.

>>47002065
The "very explicit historical basis" yields before what canon Touhou sources actually say, no matter how much you'd think it would "make more sense". It's ZUN's series, with made up characters written by ZUN who take inspiration from real life myths, but they aren't THE real life myths.
And, again, Zen mentions are the recent ones. They would be the ones doing the retcon, if anything.

Not bothering with the usual hurr durr Byakuren doesn't know Buddhism.

>>47002125
>they aren't THE real life myths.
Thanks for reminding me that Ibuki-Douji isn't actually Ibuki-Douji
>Not bothering with the usual hurr durr Byakuren doesn't know Buddhism.
And an additional thank for you exposing that you're a ZUN dickrider who doesn't care about retcons. Seeing as this is a Byakuren thread, if you feel the need to delude yourself about Byakuren, perhaps you'd feel more at home browsing Reddit or Twitter.

>>46995470
You're close to being on your way to enlightenment anon...

>>47002182
Ok, you're mentally insane.
Point remains that Byakuren is Zen because all very recent canon sources say so.
Call me whenever ZUN writes in a newer work that she's Shingon or whatever other headcanon of yours.
Until then.

>>47002222
So then Mokou is a youkai because FDS says so too, right?

>>46995517
>I can fix her
I want her to fix (break) me (more).

>>47002232
living for 1300 years is not a regular human trait, so she does fall under the category of youkai. She's not a youkai in terms of her social standing though because she still firmly thinks of herself as a human and has no interest in youkai activities, but she's not a normal human anymore.

>>47002800
That doesnt make any sense, the only thing Mokou has is the hourai thing going on, and thats a thing that she brought upon herself after being born, its not native, why is she a youkai because of that, that would be like saying that Marisa is a youkai.

>>47002800
Bait used to be believable...

I like how these threads have just 2 types of posts, huge paragraphs of history and lore, and big nun titties

>>47005791
Paragraphs of lore are necessary to understand why this onee-san has such a lewd body.

Post the Byakuren's tits pasta.

>>47005791
Problem is when the post nut clarity hits, you start to realize your waifu would feed you to the wolves for a drop of clout.

>>47005791
Byakuren is a mirror. Look at her and you will see what your truly desire.

>>47009732
uh oh

>>47009746
Yes, seeing the desire for big motherly breasts reflected back at you is very common.

>>47009732
You know what I truly desire? I desire for her to be less of a shitty individual.

>>47009638
Only if you weren't close to her. Considering her reaction to Myouren's death, it's safe to say that if Byakuren's fond of you, the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not she's ever letting you go outside again, and how much pain Mokou is going to be in when everyone's favorite curvy monk decides feeding you a Hourai Immortal's liver is the only way she'll be able to stop worrying about your mortality.

>>47009888
Do you desire that or the thrill of coming to argue into Byakuren threads?

>>47002065
What about her comments a
On Koishi makes her seem unknowledgeable?
She says Koishi approached emptiness accidentally and Miko seems to agree with her, then later when she meets Koishi she becomes interested in researching the subject of her speculation.

>>47009928
I dont care about arguing, I dont like arguing, I avoid arguing whenever I can, it simply annoys me that a character with the potential to do so much good just falls flat and ends up doing nothing at best and worsening things at worst.

>>47010472
Didn't Reimu say Byakuren improved things in her cross review for her?

>>46972845
Bhudism is such a weird religion, are you telling me that reincarnating, which has the best of being mortal and being inmortal, is a bad thing you want to escape, but death beyond oblivion is a good thing to look out for? What the fuck?

>>47010477
Did she? My memory is getting worse and I genuinely dont remember and I have trouble keeping up with whats canon and whats not with so much information dispersed.

>>47010477
I'd say a sexy youkai girl brothel is the best way of improving youkai-human race relations

>>47010528
she does admit that, yes

>>47010539
Well thats good, at least shes doing some good, the status quo doesnt seem to ever change, but I guess its something? I dont know.

>>47010533
The fact that we've never gotten a canon interaction between Byakuren and Rinnosuke is a fucking crime. You'd think she'd be all in favor of human-youkai race-mixing.

>>47009732
Cool as it would be, I am too lazy to become a cult leader.

>>47010507
Buddhism is all about getting rid of desire. Once you reach the point of not wanting anything there is no point to reincarnate anymore. I mean as long as you keep wBhudism is such a weird religion, are you telling me that reincarnating, which has the best of being mortal and being inmortal, is a bad thing you want to escape, but death beyond oblivion is a good thing to look out for? What the fuck?anting stuff and experiences etc. You would want to reincarnate and try again. But if you want nothing and are just fine waiting for an eternity you don't. Does that make sense?

>>47010507
I used to think so too, that life has so much in it to enjoy and that I would rather live forever to continue enjoy it as I saw fit. Then I think about how lucky I really am that for all its faults, my life turned out the way it did, and how much worse it could have really been. I would rather not roll the bones and risk getting one of those worse outcomes after this life and I would rather resign to oblivion than risk it.

Of course this all hinges on biological immortality being an impossibility in real life. If I had the option to unnaturally extend my life indefinitely then I would absolutely choose that over oblivion.

>>47010705
My desire is for you to learn how to quote, anon.

>>47009746
Someone with drawing skills should remake all UFO sprites so they all look like in this pic.

>>46987278
>Shingon Buddhism. They have a whole very elaborate system where they engage in prayer...
Thank you so much for this post. I've always wonder what differentiated Shingon Buddhism from other mainland Asian schools but I was always too lazy to look it up

>>46996769
Your wish has been granted, you can go check!

>>47010705
Sounds like shit. At least Christians/Muslims get to live in paradise forever if they’re good little boys and girks. In Buddhism your options are live in constant reincarnation, burn in super hell for 10 trillion years, or give up everything you love and care about and eat berries in the woods for the privilege of getting obliterated permanently. No wonder it’s the only one of the 4 major religions that’s losing more members than it’s converting. At least the actual Buddha was somewhat based.

>>47011583
>No wonder it’s the only one of the 4 major religions that’s losing more members than it’s converting
Pretty sure christianity is in the same boat with only the muslims getting more members, also whats the 4th one?

>>47011685
Anon, half of Africa is some flavor of Christian, not to mention the entirety of the Americas.

So you want to attract more followers to the temple? You have to wear this and stand outside. It will work, trust me

>>47010472
I understand. I have a very mixed opinion of her myself. Point was, there are clearly some people who enjoy the various character discussions mostly as means to argue about things.
>>47010676
Many such cases.
>>47010507
Yeah it's very weird if you aproach it from the end goal. If you start aproaching it more from the various beliefs and practices it makes more sense.

I don't really consider myself a buddhist, but when I started reading about it I found that I had been independently trying to do some things very much aligned with buddhism. I still have extreme difficulty really understanding some of it, and I think there are some ideas in there that are very dangerous in the wrong hands.

Big part of the appeal of it and my interest towards it stems from their idea that people can independently discover and re-discover a kind of "buddhism" even if they have never been exposed to it. This gives it a feeling of genuine universality that is lacking in a lot of other religions and philosophical systems.

>>47011685
No Christians and Hindus are also rapidly increasing members overtime, Christianity’s still gonna be top dog til about 2050 and even then it’s not gonna fall too far behind.

Buddhism is the only major religion that’s actively stagnating itself out of existence. Pretty much all the major places it took hold are either non-religious/atheist, falling behind to Islam/Christianity, or converting back to Hinduism.

>>47015175
>I have a very mixed opinion of her myself
Elaborate

>>47010539
>Youkai are harming less people everyday
>THIS MUST STOP NOW!

>>47019094
If she succeeds and Youkai and humans have peaceful(and sexual) relations from now on, Reimu will be out of a job.

>>47019094
anon, she's frustrated because it was the myouren temple who did it, so they get the credit
SoPM is pretty clear on how Reimu really does want a peace that doesn't need to be protected by violence deep down

>>47019227
It's a shame that ZUN never has her writing reflect that character detail at any later point.

>>47019232
Well, Reimu's kinda chill outside of incident mode...sometimes...maybe...

useless bonze, only good for paizuri

>>46995436
Somebody sounds jealous, Parsee

>>46995470
You're subconsciously trying to make what you like seem bad so only you can have it, don't feel bad about it anon.

>>47019670
>You're subconsciously trying to make what you like seem bad so only you can have it
I dont understand the phrasing of this sentence.

>>47019691
Did I forget to add "to others" after "seem bad"? Oops

>>46995470
Speak for yourself, I love evil women and would never try to change what made them so appealing to me in the first place.

>>47019772
Byakuren isn't even a full-blown evil woman though. She's just someone who kowtows to the status quo and stopped forming attachments to people with human lifespans to avoid the pain of loss.
She's pitiable, but oh-so-endearing, like a wounded puppy.

>>47019710
No, I just dont get what you mean, sorry.

>>47019836
I didn't mean in the case of Byrakuren specifically. I do think of her as being selfish and unscrupulous when it comes to getting what she wants, based on her past of dabbling in the dark arts to gain eternal youth though. That detail in particular made her very relatable to me because I too would have done the same if I knew it would work. I also especially liked that her early years were built around larping as a proper monk while colluding with the youkai she was meant to exterminate.

Maybe now she is more sincere and genuine in her intent and methods but it's her past that makes her most interesting to me.

>>47019836
>Byakuren isn't even a full-blown evil woman though.
"You think I'm an evil woman. If I was, I'd have set off your bomb long ago..."
"The bombs ensure cooperation, encourage... harmony."
"Think about it. Would humans and youkai truly be able to work together without those bombs? No, their nature is against us, always."
"Every time they would betray each other, kill or seal each other away, just because of their hatred of one another."
"Cracking the seal on my prison was difficult... but cracking hatred, that was more difficult. So the dead man's switches went in."
"When your life is tied to another's, sacrifice and cooperation - they can be conditioned, learned, and you can focus on the matter at hand."
"Hatred can be beaten. Contained. Controlled. You know it better than anyone... or I hope you do. It doesn't matter."

She's more of an uncool auntie of the temple's youkai girls nowadays and I just find that kinda endearing

>>47022371
Joon is cute, I wish she got something like monk robes in canon the ones given to Jo'on in picrel really fit her.
Like I could imagine an evil but more Buddhist version of her wearing them.

>>47022407
In fairness, Jo'on just looks better without the bling in general.

>>47022629
It's true.

>>47022407
>>47022686
Now this version of her I can get into,

>>47022629
>>47022686
Joon is a very cute girl who dresses trashy, it's a shame since Doremy mentions her dream life is a modest one so she might just dress that way since according to her logic she's just dressing the way she's supposed to as a pestilence god.
Although how Joon gets pestilence god equaling bling and expending money I have no idea, isn't "money is a diseases" or something along those lines a western phrase?

>>47022686
>>47022763
With looks like that, she could easily reclass into a goddess of beauty if she wanted to.

>>47022629
>>47022686
I could do without all the yuri incest this artist draws of these two but I like when he draws Jo'on with her hair down so you can see how she does actually look similar to Shion.
I always wished that Jo'on had been at the temple for longer, because she's the most interesting character to shove there and there's countless hijinks you could do between her personality and the other members, not to mention the way Byakuren treats her

>>47022837
Yeah it's a shame, especially since I think Joon is more likely to dress modestly when she isn't shackled with her sister.
They tend to feed into each other's worse aspects, but with Joon I'm more optimistic since she can have relationships that aren't like Shion's pathetic relationships.
I know Tenshi nullifies her bad luck, but those two just feed into each other with no stopping.

>>46972845
Can I pray quietly by myself? It seems like a personal activity that I should keep to myself.

>>47018787
Keep in mind that I am not the biggest lore scholar, but sure.

First of all, I think she is a very interesting character from the point of view of fiction. A fallen buddhist nun that now buddies up with youkai, largely out of necessity, perhaps out of genuine sympathy, and runs a perhaps more or less abusive religious organization that might nevertheless still line up with the aims of her faith...that's a really fascinating character with a lot of interesting contradictions which can have her interpreted one way or another.

I think more interesting than looking at her from a kind of "outside" view of good/bad it's more interesting to look at her compared to what mahayana buddhism is supposed to be about. Since I do not belong to the faith, I cannot make a full judgement here of course, but it's interesting to think about.

Her pursuit of immortality and fear of death obviously go against the ultimate aim of buddhism, which is the shedding of attachments and exit from the cycle of samsara. So she is perhaps not quite fit to be a leader of a buddhist organization with such fear-driven attachments. Then again, some might see that being immortal might give her more time to convert and guide others. Some could even see her as a kind of "martyr" or boddhisatva-like being, abandoning her chance at exiting samsara for spreading buddhism...

As for her relationship with the youkai, it's very much implied within the material that it began as a relationship of necessity, but that she has later developed genuine sympathy for them. The mahayana would of course frown at abusive relationships of convenience for the sake of immortality...but applaud attempts at spreading buddhism to non-humans. It's a very mahayana idea, as they believe that everything, humans, animals, plants, rocks, even the most vile demons in hell, are slowly and painstakingly moving towards buddhahood.

As for her potentially running a purely abusive cult, I do not know enough of print material lore to make the full judgement. Buddhism has some ideas that can be very dangerous in abusive hands, such as the idea of tailoring the message to the audience (it has to be the message of buddhism, not yours) and the whole monastic system, which in an abusive context would deliver power and prestige to you at the expense of others. Even then, fragments of genuine insight can come from bad teachers. Maybe Nazrin or Shou could somehow reach enlightenment even if Byakuren mostly uses them for floor sweeping. I presume she does some actual teaching and they practice meditation at the temple.

On the more "outside" view, Myoren temple has apparently had some sort of calming effect on Gensokyo, which is good.

And overall, I think if you start finding a character like Byakuren some paragon of evil, you may have passed a bit too much into fantasy. There is much greater evil than what she might be doing going on here in this world making itself known every single day.

>>47023866
That's why I have her pegged as just selfish rather than outright evil. Ever since coming back, her interest seems to be more in maintaining her personal status quo than anything actively malicious. She has her own temple where she can practice in peace as well as students and parishioners who respect her, even if it was all built on a morally dubious foundation. As long as her message remains one of relative peace, there is no reason to really consider her as being evil in the present.

>>47023866
I see, thank you for the insight, its nice to know I am not the only one going insane trying to know how to feel about her.

>>47023866
>>47024062
Honestly I think that’s what makes her arguably more interesting, and intimidating. She’s not outwardly evil and is pretty nice at first, but if it comes down to her well being and others, she’s gonna choose herself. She can trick you (and herself) into thinking she’s for the well being of others, hell she even does a good job helping mend the youkai/humans relationships, but that calm is fragile, and with a bit of pressure, she’ll break… or more likely break someone else. Not out of malice, but survival.

I personally like a Byakuren who has a little bit of moral conflict. Flaws are what makes characters more compelling and relatable. She's moved on from her days fooling/killing the youkai to gain power, but still has mortal attachments, she still has a long way to go from attaining enlightenment. Even so, she's devoted to her faith. Who else can teach if not her? I trust that she has the fortitude to match challenges to that faith, even or especially if she has to change and grow along the way.
Pic rel is one of my favorite non-h's because she's forced to confront that fear that drove her to heresy thousands of years ago.
>https://exhentai.org/g/922065/1d9da04872/

The only thing that chaps my ass is people too married with that one shitty Grimsokyo doujin and taking every possible interpretation in the print works no matter how small to try and hold it up that she's actually a disgusting terrorist abusing everyone in her vicinity. I get an aneurysm every time someone posts that aya panel as if it's some kind of gotcha.

>>47024062
If she is evil or selfish really depends on some of the print works I am not familiar with, I think.
>>47026550
Characters you can't quite make up your mind about are often the most interesting ones, aren't they?
>>47031955
That's an interesting interpretation of her character for sure.
>>47033638
>I personally like a Byakuren who has a little bit of moral conflict.
>Flaws are what makes characters more compelling and relatable.
I very much agree. Whether by accident or intention, she is one of the most interesting characters in the franchise.

>>47033638
Personally, I can't imagine enjoying the version of Byakuren some people seem to think she is when they take the whole "Youkai Jesus" mindset to its extremes. On the other hand, a lot of people seem to take the whole "Fear of mortality" thing at face value and ignore what started her on that path, and how she avoids rocking the boat (pun intended) when it comes to disciplining her followers, as we learn in SoPM. She's largely neutral, in that her first priority is always going to be maintaining the bonds she has, and desperately trying not to lose anyone else like she lost her brother. She's a weak-hearted person at the end of the day, but I've always found that vulnerability to be endearing. I also like clingy women, so I am admittedly strongly biased.

For the record, I think Love and Peace is a great Grimsokyo Doujin in that it manages to be believable within what info we get in canon, considering Byakuren was sealed away in another world and everything. Byakuren herself admits the way she used to do things was wrong too. That said, much like with Kasen, people get disillusioned even slightly with the Cutesokyo interpretation and often kneejerk way too hard into insisting Grimsokyo is canon.

>>47024062
>>47031955
On that note I also believe there is no one that she would consider off limits if it came down to having to kill to maintain that precious status quo of hers. If she felt as though it were necessary, she would absolutely send assassins after someone.

>>47033811
>I also believe there is no one that she would consider off limits if it came down to having to kill to maintain that precious status quo of hers.
If it was a conflict between her disciples, that's the sort of thing that would give her trouble. One of them abandoning her by itself would hit her hard, but she'd probably compartmentalize it, but having to choose would destroy her, emotionally.

>>47033742
>people get disillusioned even slightly with the Cutesokyo interpretation
me

>>47033849
I don't think she would resort to such an extreme unless something threatened the existence of the temple itself. Something like a disciple leaving is regrettable but something that is not uncommon in temples and monasteries. Sometimes a student has to go their own way for a while to find their path and she probably knows that better than most.

But if she did have to kill them for whatever reason, I think she would be sad to do it, yet wouldn't pull her punches either.

>>47033920
>if she did have to kill them for whatever reason, I think she would be sad to do it, yet wouldn't pull her punches either.
Absolutely. Maintaining her peaceful life with her followers is something she's shown she'll go to great lengths to do, which is why I think it would take a conflict between said followers for her to ever go against one of them, and even then it would be excruciating. It's also possible that she'd fold under the pressure and try to subdue both sides and keep them with her by force.

>>47033993
Question is if it hurts her because she genuinely cares about the parties involved or if it only hurts because the conflict hurts her image. Maybe a mix of both.

>>47000586
You'll have to wait your turn in line

>>47034073
It's the parties involved. Her desire to maintain her image stems from that. Again, it's still not a "good" thing, as she'd rather ignore the acts her followers commit if confronting them would risk driving them away, but when you have kidnappers, murderers, someone who enslaves children and subjects them to ego death, being nepotistic and corrupt is far from the least forgivable character flaw.

>>47034175
Running a rehab facility for literal monsters.

Does Myouren temple charge a fee for randos who just want to walk around and see the grounds like many real life Japanese Buddhist temples do?

Byakuren demands human sperm to retain youth!

>>47036304
Would Byakuren and Elizabeth Bathory get along?

>>47033638
>Those who don't understand the impermanence of all worldly phenomena will never perceive the lights of Hokkai!
That line goes hard.

>>47009746
Boobs of that size look pretty gross in real life.

>>47040552
everything looks gross in real life

>>47040552
>>47040556
Yeah that's why it's called 3DPD

>>47040552
Looks pretty gross in the fanart, too. Proportions matter.

>>47040623
Why must reality be such a disgusting place...

Too much woman. It's intimidating

>>47046470
built for nue's futa cock

>>47046470
She cannot tempt me away from my path to enlightenment. I close my eyes and continue to meditate.

>>47031955
>>47033638
I mean, pound for pound, she’s probably still more morally righteous than any of the Taoists. Including “i see the poor, kill them more” Miko, “dead fetuses r us” Seiga, or “1650 bodies buried, none found” Kasen

>>47048636
>“1650 bodies buried, none found” Kasen
Byakuren's past wasn't explored in as much detail, but considering that whatever she did was bad enough to get her sealed away in Hokkai, and she was actively harboring murderous youkai, it's safe to say they were both pretty bad in the past. The operative phrase there, though, is "in the past."
Miko's also more of a Dream Self deal if you want to make that meme, and her detachment from the human village is indicated to be more a matter of the fact that she can't exactly help them if most of them don't want to apply the effort to improve their situation.

>>47046489
total futanigger death

She's saving herself for her brother

>>47048805
Im sure she did some bad shit, but Kasen most definitely did far worse and all she lost was an arm… plus she still actively kills spirits on panel so she’s at least explicitly shown to be worse in the present. Also Doremy confirmed that Milo is really just playing the long game for power and only really cares about herself. Even the recent lotus eaters chapter showed she doesn’t really give a shit about the youkai problem in the village, she just wants to put pressure on them for her own gain.

>>47049711
>plus she still actively kills spirits on panel so she’s at least explicitly shown to be worse in the present.
People love to bring this up but, for as bad as that is, the two times we see it happen are when it would actually be a threat to either humans in general, or Reimu specifically by virtue of being in the Hakurei Shrine. Context is important, Anon.
>Doremy confirmed that Milo is really just playing the long game for power
Classic misunderstanding of how Dream Selves work.
>the recent lotus eaters chapter
Can't comment on this since I haven't read LE yet, but given the rest of your errors I'm not going to take your word for it right now.

>>47048636
If we're just talking about pasts then we can't pretend Byakuren didn't get up to some shady shit and do some pretty fucked up things in pursuit of eternal youth.

>>47049711
>Milo is really just playing the long game for power
By doing what? Highlighting the problem of youkai in the village without direct intervention? What does that gain her, exactly? You could say that it might cause people to flock to her and desire her teachings, but that's hardly a benefit for her. She could easily reach her goal (ascending as a celestial) without doing any of that.

>>47031955
How do we know that Kogasa isnt just making shit up like the rest of the characters? Almost all characters are known bluffers and liars who make shit up without backing it up.

>>47050818
There's basically nothing to go on because Kogasa's only in Reimu and Murasa's routes and doesn't really explain much. She says in Reimu's route that she wonders if it's related to someone she knows and that she shouldn't say anything more, implying that she already knew a lot more about Yuuma being down there from the start. It's pretty obvious that Murasa is the 'someone she knows' but it's never really made clear what she knows
my assumption is that she just got overdramatic and let her imagination get away from her

>>47050888
Great, yet another proofless thing that people use as a throwing weapon against characters they dont like.

>>47009746
I would breed the living shit out of these girls so fucking much.

>>47051290
i hope you saved enough for the rest of the temple

>>47051301
Why is Kogasa there? Isnt she supposed to be with the Taoists?

>>47051301
Perfect height for standing paizuri.

>>47051301
I might die, but I won't stop until everyone there is pregnant.

>>47019211
Reimu will find a way to make them even more violent for money

>>47051301
Mommyzou...

>>47050010
>People love to bring this up but, for as bad as that is, the two times we see it happen are when it would actually be a threat to either humans in general
That’s bullshit, she literally does it in former hell for shits and giggles. The spirit was no threat.
>Classic misunderstanding of how Dream Selves work.
That had nothing to do with the dream selves, that was Doremy just telling Milo what her true intentions were.
>but given the rest of your errors I'm not going to take your word for it right now.
Given your inability to do basic research, I don’t think it would matter either way.

>>47051615
Oh, you're that guy, I thought you weren't a shitposter for a moment, that's my bad.

paizuri

>>47050818
I mean she literally just talking to herself at that point so I have no idea why she would randomly lie to herself about Hijiri having assassins.

>>47051626
AKA you realize I was right and you don’t have a valid response.

>>47051790
there were sounds of a loud struggle in hijiris bedroom late at night but it sounded like hijiri came out on top

>>47051301
Hate to sound like a fag, but man there’s a point where tits are so exaggerated they just become ugly and gross. Like they’ve got tumors growing out of their chests.

>>47052125
Maybe I care a little too much about such thing but I stop being into it once they start looking so big that they person they are attached to look as though they have extreme difficulty performing basic daily tasks.

I fucking hate the western touhou fandom. It's either retards reaching deep into their asses to needlessly shit on a character (this thread)or it's fumofags and trannies. Thread started on nicely at least.

>>47053753
What's the eastern one discuss that is so much better?

>>47053819
Lmao, nothing. Futaba 2ch and all the niptwitter are all there to view, the only difference is language and memes

>>47051301
Why nue is so fat? I bet byakuren doesn't have her do any chores and she just spends all day snacking and eating fried shrimp

>>47053753
Complaining about complaining won't solve the problem. Make a positive contribution! Tell us what you like about Byakuren! Is it her looks? Her personality? Maybe her theme or boss fight? Are her character flaws something to look past for you, or are they something you find endearing?

>>47055769
nta but i actualy started to liked her after the 15.5 since she is evil and i like evil women

lets just unseal byakuren from makai its not like she has a turbo dumptru- ZAMN!!!

"Ah, Hijiri-san, I have a concern I'd like to discuss with you." The new disciple called out to me.
"Of course, whatever problems you have, I'll hear them." I said with as pleasant a smile as I could muster.
Finding human recruits for the temple had been an arduous pursuit, since overcoming the 'Youkai Temple' allegations was problematic enough, but retaining them after they realized the reality of living with Youkai dissuaded many. So, I was eager to do whatever I can, since for true co-existence, humans must also change after all.
"Well, I've honestly been thinking of leaving because I'm being distracted by worldly desires, specifically of the flesh..." He said begrudgingly.
"Oh, I see..."
'Drat, not again.' I thought. Even if I could acquire the odd human disciple, it was no guarantee they wouldn't be lead away by something like short skirts, which Nue would not change no matter how many times I asked... Well not this time!
"Come then. We shall face this problem head on! Who is it that's caught your eye? Lead me to them and I can supervise your relationship in a healthy manner!" I said, taking his hand.
"But Hijiri-san, the one who's caught my eye is you."
I froze, his hand firmly stuck in mine. "I've caught your eye have you?" I struggled out. "What uhm, what specifically about me is it that's lead you astray?"
"If I'm forced to say, it'd probably be your hair." He relinquished, red as a tomato. "It's very fluffy, flowing, and has a unique color."
My hair? Well I did work extra hard on keeping it nice and healthy which was no small chore considering the amount, but when one says 'worldly desires' I assumed it would be related to my figure or perhaps he's to shy to say such things in front of me? Maybe I've put him in a bit of a corner.
"Well, then would you perhaps like to comb it? With some exposure you could overcome your desires when you realize hair is just hair." I said, still gripping his hand.
"If you wouldn't mind-"
"Great! Let's start immediately then!" I said, leading him back to my room.
The road to enlightenment had many challenges, but the unforeseen hardships are often the most difficult to overcome, so I can't falter here!

>>47056822
Attachment to non-attachment to worldly desires can become an attachment in itself! Byakuren is a wise teacher!

>>47051301
Slampighus my beloved. I would do the living shit out of all of them.

>>47056822
No bald Byakuren arc?

>>47053753
That’s a good question, do the Eastern fans ever actually discuss the bad aspects about the characters or are they all waifufags?

>>47059267
I remember one Korean posted his argument with another poster to a Korean Touhou board and than posted back the reply he got there.
So, at least they do, and they're just as annoying about it as we are.

>>47059351
Thank god, I thought we were especially autistic

>>47059432
For a while afterwards him and they guy he were arguing with here were made fun of with people implying they were homosexual korean lovers due to how they'd fill up threads with point by point line by line replies to each other.

>>47051790
>so I have no idea why she would randomly lie to herself about Hijiri having assassins
Why do characters ever do anything in this franchise? We have seen none other mention or proof about those "assassins" past that line, not even in the fucking printworks, which are grimsokyo fuel.
Being a shitty individual with egotistical desires that wants to make sure her people stays with her is one thing, having fucking assassins is another whole different thing.

>>47059699
>Why do characters ever do anything in this franchise? We have seen none other mention or proof about those "assassins" past that line, not even in the fucking printworks, which are grimsokyo fuel.
I mean it could just mean they’re really good assassins. No witnesses

>>47059938

>>47056822
go on~

I like boobs.

>>47059699
Byakuren dream self outright admits she wishes she could kill anyone that annoys her. Her having assassins is honestly pretty in character.

>>47011219
Be the change you wish to see in this world anon!

>>47065479
I wish I could rip your head out of your torso and fucking feed it to dogs, would I hire a fucking mexican cartel to do it? No, dumbass, Byakuren is flawed to no fucking hell, she (actual Byakuren, not the fucking dream selves bullshit people constantly use as a "no u" card) admits that still lacks training, so of course she still has attachments and shit that should not be there.
People have dark thoughts and desires, EVERYONE has those, yet still you dont see everyone acting them out, thats the key difference here.
If Byakuren really had assasins then we would already know by now, because she would have sent them to kill Miko, her main threat.

>>47065539
I mean the same dream self admitted to being extremely lady and manipulating her subjects into doing her chores under the guise of being training, only for Lotus Eaters to reveal she does exactly that, so I don’t think the dream selves feelings are that removed from the true version of the character. The assassins most likely point to her ambitions to silence those that annoy her to be something she does follow-up on.

>>47065573
We are not talking about metaphores here, we are talking about actual mercenaries under her service, if the assassins part was a metaphore then that would imply that a lot of other stuff are metaphores.
The "Byakuren is so evil she as literal assassins under her command Zounose is canon and so is KKHTA" bullshit people larp constantly about is bullshit until ZUN actually decides to double down on it, which he wont do, because its ZUN we are talking about here.
Thats my point, you can shit on her say that shes Yukari levels of evil with a lot of her other questionable behaviour, but THAT part specifically is bullshit.

Honestly, a peaceful life of simple labor in a loving environment sounds heavenly. These days I'm happiest when I'm doing weekly meal prep and keeping things tidy, so Myouren temple sounds like a dream, but maybe I'd get bored with the simple life if I had it, like how people fantasize about owning a farm, but aren't ready for the reality.
Still, If I got transported to Gensokyo, I would beeline for the Buddhists, pretend to be mute, and try to join up.

>>47065573
You're overemphasizing her laziness, she's literally giving Aya a guided tour and in CDS we see her doing some light dusting.
We've also seen her giving sermons, is she a bit lazy? Does she give her disciples lots of chore?
Yes.
But people make it out like she's so lazy she's never worked a day in her life, if she was that lazy she would've never become a witch or developed her scroll when she was sealed in Makai.

>>47065619
"Sorry, youkai only."
"Please leave your faith at the avatar and go home."

>>47065619
I have long believed that the life of a monk is the only one I am suitable for because I don't have what it takes to make it in "real" society. I need to be put in a containment zone like a monastery where I can live an artificial life without worrying about "real" problems. It was an option I actually considered when I was younger but ultimately decided against it because I was too vain to go bald for it, which I suppose might show that I was not as suited for the life as I may have thought. Who knows, that might change some day but at that point I may be too old to join a monastery.

>>47065647
Humans are allowed in though.

>>47065707
Regrettably, the official description given in Gensou Narratograph explicitly states that human monks are not accepted.

>>47065707
They're not allowed to actually join the temple itself, though. Humans just serve as a faith-gathering tool, as far as Byakuren's concerned.

>>47065721
>>47065727
Ah, I didnt know that.
>>47065721
>Gensou Narratograph
Is that the supposedly canon TTRPG that ZUN part of that I constantly hear about these days?

>>47065727
If a human took issue with that and decided to start their own rival Buddhist temple would she or her associates come to crush it?

>>47065753
>Is that the supposedly canon TTRPG that ZUN part of that I constantly hear about these days?
ZUN personally wrote the descriptions for the locations according to the document itself. He also added 2 quotes for each character in the base game, with such wonderful additions as Alice being outright schizophrenic, further proving his PC-98phobia.

>>47065761
What would the point of that be exactly?

>>47065762
>with such wonderful additions as Alice being outright schizophrenic
Excuse me?

>>47065793
If it was a direct result of a human taking issue with just being used as a faith gathering tool and deciding that they are better off just gathering their own faith for their own sect instead.

>>47065798
Alice's two new quotes both begin with "The dolls tell me" so-and-so. This is in spite of the fact that a defining trait of Alice's magic is that her dolls cannot act independently, and ZUN has not given any indication that she has succeeded in her efforts to create one that can. As a result, the only possible explanation for this is that Alice has reached Maribel levels of schizophrenia.
>Verification not required.

>>47065798
He's being hyperbolic, Alice is just being normal Alice. Which is very Alice like.

>>47065805
No, I mean that what would be the point of Byakuren going to religious war with another bhuddist branch.

>>47065821
Great, another retcon/case of ZUN forgot.

>>47065821
in all fairness, this is a very Alice thing to do

>>47065761
Of course not. Their gruesome death and complete annihilation of their temple has nothing to do with Byakuren and her statement of "Will no one rid me of this turbulent monk?" had absolutely nothing to do with their eventual destruction.

>>47065600
I never said she was Yukari levels of evil, honestly even with her dream self she’s unironically not even top 50 most evil Touhou characters, but to deny that ZUN is clearly trying to portray her as morally dubious is disingenuous at best. ZUN wouldn’t randomly show a scene where points out Byakuren acting just like her dream self stated she was like on accident. The assassins bit is canon, how often she does it is up to interpretation, but denying it is cope.

Also
M.E.T.A.P.H.O.R.

>>47065637
Again, never said she was a bum, but the scene with Aya is clearly a callback to her dream self, meaning the dream selves are still somewhat relevant to the personality of the characters and aren’t just OOC unhinged actions the characters would never do.

>>47065647
>"Sorry, youkai only."
There's a fairy in your picture and Joon is a deity so clearly this isn't the case.
And this were playing mute comes in handy as well as not knowing Japanese. I'll just assume that rule is to deter the uncommitted and wait at the temple gates all day like it's Fight Club I know this hurts you.
Besides, if it really comes down to it, I can just mime out asking for directions to the Taoist temple, at which point, what's Hijiri gonna do? Give over a potential disciple to her rival? It's all the same to me as long as I get to do honest labor and meditate in a serene environment.
And if Miko rejects me, I'll screw off to the Forest of Magic and accept whatever fate God has destined for me at that point.
>>47065793
There's a long and storied history in Japan of religions and temples crushing competition. We even have got an entire fighting game about it!

>>47065761
Nah she’d just use the tengu to abduct and rape them all.

>>47065995
Buddhist monks in real life weren't above using shady tactics to make political power plays so it doesn't seem too strange for Byakuren to do the same.

>>47066019
Japanese Buddhists were notoriously massive shitheads to begin with yeah. Especially during a certain period of history where certain tragedies happened that they’ll deny.

>>47065995
>The assassins bit is canon
Kogasa saying that line is canon. We have absolutely nothing else to suggest that Byakuren would go to that sort of extreme, and it actively contradicts her characterization of avoiding conflict where reasonably possible.

If you want to insist that it's impossible for characters to speak anything but objective truth, please go back to literally the first Windows game with Reimu's dialogue about how "killing one person doesn't make me a mass murderer" with regards to defeating Sakuya.

>>47066040
I mean avoiding conflict by sending assassins to kill anyone that annoys or threatens you is pretty in-line for Buddhists.

Also Reimu likes murder, she’s said as much.

>>47066081
You can't murder youkai, anon. It's pest control.

>>47065995
>The assassins bit is canon
Show to me those assassins then, show me Byakuren talking about them, making deals with them, or telling them which objectives to kill, surely, if those assassins exists, there must be some proof about it right? After all, all characters tell the truth all the time 100% and would never say bullshit without backing it up.

>>47066014
Yes, that is correct, but that only makes sense when it comes to opposing religions, why would she open friendly fire, her whole deal is to keep her people with her and keep humans fearful so her mana battery doesnt run out, what benefit would she gain from destroying a temple of her own religion created by someone she actively rejected? It makes no sense.

>>47066305
Again, if they’re really good assassins they’re not gonna leave a lot of good evidence. Have you ever gotten Silent Assassin in Hitman, retard?

>>47066305
Don't bother, anon, he's already made his lack of concern for canon quite obvious and is just derailing the thread at this point.

>>47066344
I dont give a fuck about that, if theres no tangible proof about it, then its bullshit, thats how this franchise works, and since you are not showing any proof of it, I will just assume you dont have any and that Kogasa is making shit up, again.

>>47066339
Starting your own Buddhist practice because Hijiri rejected you as a disciple!
Reject worshipping any deities since either you're enlightened or not! Putting your at odds with Hijiri's beliefs!
Hijiri is upset someone else is practicing Buddhism but her yet completely unable to stop it since she has no good reason to and if anything happened to you, people would suspect Hijiri immediately!
Never do a single thing to antagonize her, instead focusing on your own enlightenment, unhindered by Youkai attachments, which is what annoys her the most!
Eventually your all Hijri can think about! Becoming the worst kind of attachment! So she finally snaps and does something drastic!
Accepting Hijiri's faults even when she snaps! Smiling peacefully at Hijiri even if you die!

>>47066305
>Show to me those assassins then
(She's not very good at her job.)

>>47066464
I wish something like this happened, that would be interesting, instead we have the 9999th Mamizou appearence.
But I guess thats something can only be explored in fanon, since that would alter the status quo way too much.

>>47066464
>So she finally snaps and does something drastic!
Much like Mara used his daughters, Hijiri uses her own body to lead you astray from the path of enlightenment!

>>47066519
Well nothings stopping you from writing it Anon.
Anybody can write afterall, even if only a few people are good at it.

>>47066339
>What benefit would a religioous organization get from destroying a temple of their own religion
Oh… you sweet, sweet summer child.

>>47066369
>>47066395
Seething and coping over ZUN making your already morally dubious waifu even worse is gonna get you nowhere. Can’t wait for him to make Love and Peace canon so Buddhafags can finally go like their creator and fade into nothingness.

>>47066988
>still no proof

>>47066464
>>47066546
"So you really won't disband?" I asked him.
He simply shook his head and smiled, silent as always.
It had become too much, this one-sided rivalry. When I rejected him as a disciple he'd struck out on his own to found his own practice in a small, mostly destitute corner of the village. Over time he'd silently labored, restoring the area bit by bit, repaving paths, clearing debris, and taking only what he needed in donations, giving back what else he'd earned to his struggling neighbors. Though his deeds alone and his silent prayers, the section of the village had flourished and followers had gathered, yet he erected no idols nor did he discriminate any patronage.
It was all so... clever. To establish a practice in the village meant that any disciples would be those who already adapted to co-existence, that he would be so mad as to shave his head must have been merely for comparison sake with my own devotion(he was probably balding anyway!), and that he said nary a word while doing all of this made him seem humble, harmless, detached... It must have been a ruse, a deception meant to lead the residents of Gensokyo astray! And as someone who strived for real co-existence, nay, as a TRUE Buddhist I had to put a stop to it before a disaster occurs!
"Then you leave me no choice." I said as I shed my outer robe.
He covered his mouth in shock and waved his hand at me, a plea for me to cease.
"If you say aloud that you'll disband, then I'll stop." I said, unbuttoning the white robe and letting it fall to the floor.
Even if it cost me my body, my dignity, and my reputation, I had to see this through.
The man just shook his head turning away from me to avert his eyes, but It wouldn't do any good as I tackled him to the ground and held his arms down, forcing him to gaze at my body, only covered by underwear. 'It wasn't violence if I seduced him right? So long as there's no bruises it's a pass right?' I thought as I started to unbuckle my bra, then the door slid open and two groups flooded in, ready for war, our disciples. Silence followed.
"H-hijiri you- you've" Ichirin began, gawking "Your amazing!" She said aloud. "Listen, everyone! Don't turn away! Right now Hijiri is using all her power to defeat the deceiver! He's resigned from physical violence, so Hijiri is answering him in kind body and soul she'll defeat him only as a woman can!" My other disciples began to be roused before cheering me on.
"No way! Our priest would never relent to your harlot priestesses temptations! Even if she assails his body, he'll not raise one hand of protest nor resent her in the slightest! Not even her blackness will leave a blot on the purity of his soul! Which you shall now bear witness!" One of his disciples cheered, rallying the rest.
I looked down at the priest. His eyes were closed, seemingly peaceful, but I could see the odd twitch and wrinkle that betrayed a chink in his armor. "I'm sorry, but I really have no choice." I whispered into his ear.
I proceeded to do as I had to, taking his body, dashing both our purity, all to the baited breath of the audience of our disciples. For the entire evening and night I did thus over and over again, yet true to his follower's word, he did not move a muscle in protest, bearing with my every assault.
In the end, I couldn't break his armor, couldn't overcome him, and as I laid atop him, sweaty, naked, and tired, I whispered into his ear "Our children will be my victory." before I passed out.

True to my declaration, I had become pregnant not so long after. And due to that, the priest appointed one of his disciples as head of the temple he'd founded and came to live with me to support his children. Thus did the small village temple form a strong tie to the Myouren, but even then the problem seemed to have been well solved as everyone who witness the act I'd performed had formed some level of solidarity. My husband didn't bear me any ill will for my aggressions and seemed to love the twins I had bared all the same. Yet, sometimes I'll see him staring off into the hills, forlorn, before he'd close his eyes and snuggle our children closer to him.

>>47066988
>Can’t wait for him to make Love and Peace canon
That would comically ruin Hijiri's character since, at least the way I read it, Hijiri becomes a full-blown psycho for little reason other then "but youkai want to live to?". It comes off as edgy and pretentious shock value more then it does actual characterization.
Also, it would actually be, paradoxically, the biggest blow to Grimsokyo, since in Love and Peace, normal humans basically rally against a parade of youkai and start winning before Hijiri goes genocidal.

>>46972845
Pray together? How boring! How about we play together instead?! I’ve sat all day at home with nothing to do!

>>47067110
...

>>47067252
Say what you must!
I will stop trying, even if I must fail 1,000 times!

>>47067110
Don't give Reinigger >>47067252 your phone, keep making good posts. There are just too good.

>>47067110
>>47067252

>>47067268
>I will stop trying, even if I must fail 1,000 times!
Huh?

>>47067292
He's a write fag, so he's an ESL who doesn't know how to spell or what words mean.

>>47067160
I mean there’s is a through-line about how she starts to see the youkai as the superior species, and adopts a survival of the fittest mentality, and that nature will correct to have the true winner be decided through force. But yeah it’s a bit edgy for the sake of it.
>Also, it would actually be, paradoxically, the biggest blow to Grimsokyo, since in Love and Peace, normal humans basically rally against a parade of youkai and start winning before Hijiri goes genocidal.
I don’t think that contradicts Grimsokyo at all, the Grim part is that the humans of the the village have basically been bred into being nothing more than mindless sheep and any amount of possible resistance is stricken down before they can become an actual threat. Like the whole shit about the Youkai controlling the town wouldn’t mean anything if they didn’t actively believe humans were a threat. Even that Zounose doujin about the old youkai hunter points out that the humans used to be an actual threat before the youkai tamed them. Wouldn’t be a tragedy if there wasn’t a little bit of hope crushed.

>>47066014
>There's a fairy in your picture and Joon is a deity so clearly this isn't the case.
Anon, that's fan art from Fuuzasa, it's a reference to his Doujin "Ice Fairy Passing Through." Where Cirno becomes the little sister of sorts to Shou and pseudo daughter to Byakuren.

>>47067644
Woah, a story like that sounds wholesome and pleasant to read.

Fucking cringe. Need more OOC Grimdark Doujins NOW

>>47068766
>Need more OOC Grimdark Doujins NOW
Here you go, Zounose wishes he'd written something as grim and OOC!

>>47068766
Most grimsokyo doujins are more in character than cutesokyo doujins.

>>47068803
Forgot image

>>47068809
Whoops, silly me, wrong one. Though it's not that different, still grim, still OOC

>>47068814
Symposium isn't THAT different outside of the actual symposium itself. If you cut that out so it was just the character profiles and the news articles, it'd be exactly the same to PMiSS

>>47068814
Last, but not least. ZUN liked Kasen so much, he even used her in the fighting games, now that's doujin spirit!
Too bad he never wrote anything past 2008. Just imagine what the official manga would be now...

>>47068827
I know, right? If not for those weird fedora-tipping sections, you'd think that ZUN himself wrote it! Fandom is truly amazing.

>>47067110
That was a good read, keep going anon!

>>47067110
I wonder if attachment to your own children is worse or better than attachment to having your own temple.

>>47068864
Having problems with religion doesn't make you a fedora tipping atheists. Also how is the symposium itself fedora tipping, they don't even have that trade marked Aya bias?
Although they do have Akyu and drunk bias.

>>47068766
Fuuzasa's works as a whole are neither entirely cute or grim, how about you actually read the work of the author before putting your ignorance on display and stop trying to force some retarded culture war.

>>47069886
>how is the symposium itself fedora tipping, they don't even have that trade marked Aya bias?
Obviously, whoever wrote that part is the fedora-tipper. It's very unsubtle. Can't seem to remember his name though, it's something that starts with a Z.

>>47069954
Anon, authors can write things they disagree with and can write things from an in-universe point of view.
But I would like your explanation on what you dislike about the symposium chapters, in particular.

>>47070046
>authors can write things they disagree with
Impossible. How?

>>47070046
Before I do, I'll have you know that I've read SoPM a long time ago, my memory of it isn't perfect, and I'm not planing on ever revisiting it.
All of the religious leaders are presented in exclusively negative light. What little excuses they provide are deliberately bad, and are only there to dig them deeper. Also, several revalations about the lore that I can't seem to remember now basically make it imposible for religions to be anything positive in-universe.
I know it's not enough, but that's all I can provide without rereading it, which I won't do.

>>47070128
Anon, being autistic is fun and all, but if you're going to argue lore at least brush up on the material a bit. Its silly to go out of your way to discuss touhou while actively avoiding touching its source material.

>>47070128
You're a retard Anon, you literally have no points except for hyperbole from a book you haven't read in a long time, fanon, and second hand accounts.
I was expecting something better from you and am severely disappointed.

>>47070147
>brush up on the material a bit
I refuse. In fact, I hope that by the next year I'll forget everything that isn't in games, and thus I will detach myself from my desire to shitpost. Wish me luck!
>>47070152
>you literally have no points except for hyperbole from a book you haven't read in a long time, fanon, and second hand accounts
Ah, I see that my method is working, thank you. Soon, my mind shall be pure.

>>47067110
I don't think that would solve Byakuren's problems for long, as the new temple would continue to attract new disciples, human and youkai (mostly tengu) alike, who would all also shave their heads and abstain from physical temptations and spend their days training while Byakuren's disciples can be found at every party.
And she can't exactly go fuck all of them.

>>47070209
>Wish me luck!
Godspeed, retard-kun

How come in any thread mentioning Byakuren there are still the same autists who keep arguing the same points and arguments for years?

>>47071077
Because people keep treating Byakuren like a holy perfect all-loving woman while in canon, she is as shitty as the rest. She, alongside the rest of the Myoren crew, deserves to be rape corrected by a pack of wild negros, minus Murasa and Nue who only deserve to be rape corrected by me.

>>47071256
Mutt

>>47070128
Yeah it pretty much confirms that the villagers are just kinda screwed forever and any hope that comes their way would probably just make their lives worse or be just a new group of being exploiting them. This meme basically

>>47071256
>Byakuren like a holy perfect all-loving woman
They don't anon, at least here.
Take your obsession somewhere else.

>>47071077
Hijiri's story taps a nerve.
Personally, I think it's a story about vanity, pride, and fear giving way to the revelation that Youkai aren't destined to be evil. It would be an inherently disagreeable notion back in ye olden' times, even though it's correct and could lead to an infinitely better circumstance. Like how Galileo argued over heliocentrism, even though they were perfectly good arguments against it like loads of phenomenon's we should be observing and could only really have seen with modern telescopes, Hijiri argued that Youkai aren't irredeemable monsters, despite a host of awful circumstances, deceptions, and hard times caused by those same beings and we can only now look at Gensokyo, where many more youkai are friendly and see that truth.
But there's always the imagination of Hijiri doing the worst, most irredeemable thing imaginable because her story is slightly vague and Touhou Doujinshi authors and fans will push that vagueness to both extremes. So you'll naturally have conflict. It's really fun.
>>47071525
>the villagers are just kinda screwed forever and any hope that comes their way would probably just make their lives worse or be just a new group of being exploiting them.
I don't know, people grow OLD in the village and there was that elder Kasen met who found the Kappa arm and was super giddy. The war over faith did have people in despair because there were so many incidents going on outside their control, but that problem isn't exclusive to the villagers, everyone has to deal with things outside of their control.
I liked a lot of Mystia's Izakaya(which falls on the cuter side, but I think that's fine) because you had details like humans keeping shops open at the dead of night to serve Youkai customers and the first supplier Mystia has is a savvy human who gauges her because she knows she can get away with it.
It's vapid and boring to assume that the villagers are sheep anyway, it's more interesting to think about how you'd overcome the shared circumstances by marrying one of the Grassroots Youkai! I joke, but also if you were an outsider you'd probably have more in common with them then any other group in Gensokyou. No, I'm not Hijiri preaching some co-existence nonsense, this my legitimate opinion because it would be hard to find a wife in the village as an outsider.

>>47071256
nue is mine you can take the sailor girl with you

>>47072097
>I joke, but also if you were an outsider you'd probably have more in common with them then any other group in Gensokyou
Explain further.

>>47072118
Sorry dawg but I beat you to it, we are already married. Pic related is my beautiful Nue wife.

>>47072142
then how come i too have Nue wife???

>>47072184
Not the Nue, she is a tanuki larping as a nue.

>>47071077
Because the mentally ill are too enamored with their Zounose-tier fanfiction they've built in their minds all these years by cherrypicking and distorting instances from canon (assuming they bother to check it, at the very least), so they feel the need to repeat it obsessively to convince themselves more and more.

By the way, here's the aphorism that opens SoPM.
>Wisdom, benevolence, and fortitude are the universal virtues of all.
>Then I shall assemble the three here.
Kanako is a goddess and Miko was an emperor, but benevolence? Yeah, no way Byakuren could ever embody that very virtue, she's the ebil selfish hypocrite who only cares about herself (source: some mentally ill secondary who doesn't care about literally any scene proving otherwise).

>>47072123
So the village is out because they probably have established families and everyone knows one another. It's possible to integrate, but there would always be a cultural divide since you weren't born there.
The religious institutions could be ruled out since they seem to function more like clubs for their residents and you'd never really be part of the "in group" although this could just be a result of Touhou being so character driven. Same goes for most of the deities you could worship, like Moriya, but maybe you could snuggle up to them in solidarity to also being from the outside or find another local deity who's chill and needs attendants.
Underground Youkai are super territorial and adapting to their lawlessness would be difficult
Youkai Mountain's strict ruleset is arguably more territorial and more difficult to adapt to
You're not gonna make it in the Netherworld without dying in some form.
Same for New Hell. Joining up with one of the gangs might be awful, but you'd probably have an easy time assimilating once your in.
Eintei is two cliques, the rabbits and the lunarians. If you can cuddle up to one you'll be okay, but you'd need Tewi's or Kaguya's approval, the later is legendarily hard to get and the former might just be a trick.
The SDM is like Eintei, in that you just need Remilia to approve of you, but you'd probably still feel alienated among fairies, hobgoblins, and devils, so you'd have to stand alone.
Everyone in the forest of Magic has some sort of mental illness and, in my experience, two people sharing a brain deficiency doesn't mean they'll get along.
The Grassroots network on the other hand, is spread across different weak Youkai throughout the land who can't survive on their own. As an outsider, you'd share in the situation of being an alien, but also not being powerful enough to assert your dominance. Before long you could become friendly with AT LEAST a few of them and the network would grow to accept you.

This is not to say I think it's impossible to become friendly and integrate with the other groups, but the Grassroots Network would be the easiest by far and would accept you the quickest.

>>47072097
>>47072313
Don't worry, gentlemen, the shitposter himself is hopefully disengaging from the series, and so we can finally put this discussion to rest.

>>47072546
Lol @ pic

>>47072546
Oh my, you can't seriously think I'm the one behind it all, can you? Hell, I didn't even post here before my meltdown!
The only thing that can stop the actual grimshitters is a gun to ZUNs head, so that he stops putting shit in 2hus heads.

>>47065619
if I could manage to convince Byakuren to give me room and board at the temple in exchange for doing odd jobs/chores/being a test dummy for youkai going through buddhist training, that would be my dream life, I could die happy

>>47072985
>being a test dummy for youkai going through buddhist training
Being half-drowned and traumatized into aquaphobia by Murasa, only to be 'rescued' by her so you become completely dependent and her task is to 'rehabilitate' you!
Letting Shou bite you in order for her to cope with stress without meat or alcohol and so you can overcome your deep-seated fear of wild animals!
Having Nue pester you, but playing hot/cold antics so her true feelings remain unknown! Nue takes away your senses randomly to toy with you!
Helping Kyouko build up her self-confidence by letting her teaching you singing! Even though she's really bad at it and starts casually using your voice when you least expect it terrifying you!
Nazarin bullying and threatening you for every fault because her mice are constantly watching! Being blackmailed by Nazarin!
Being taught boxing by Ichirin and Unzan in a non abusive manner because those two are actually nice and friendly people!

>>47073132
>Being blackmailed by Nazarin!
All you gotta do is threaten her in turn and she'll fold like a card. Surely shota-kun knows this, right?

>>47073132
willingly subjecting myself to these arduous trials for the betterment of those around me!

>>47073132
>Being taught boxing by Ichirin and Unzan in a non abusive manner because those two are actually nice and friendly people!
Only Unzan, really. If he wasn't keeping her in check, I bet Ichirin would go off the rails real quick.

>>47072097
I mean the Human Village making is this far is literally because anyone who even dares go against the system or try to become a youkai to escape is efficiently taken care of so of course it seems like everything’s nice and dandy. Even then, A lot of these parties who recently joined Gensokyo and already start a bunch of shit. SDM, the Moriah Shrine, Myouren temple, the Toaists, Tanuki… all are new and want power and have basically been responsible for 99% of the bad shit happening so far. Pretty clear all these new “leaders” are gonna end up doing more bad then good in the long term, especially for the villagers

>>47072546
Being the “kindest” touhou is like being the sweetest KGB officer. Kasens got a body count in the thousands, is a massive hypocrite and liar, kills spirits on the regular for no reason, and dragged Reimu into the literal bottom pit of hell to fight her genocidal arm in a fight that even Eiki gave a 50% chance for Reimu to survive or be sentenced to Uber hell for all eternity… and yeah that is probably nice by Touhou standards.

>>47073576
>Kasens got a body count in the thousands
Slanderous claims, do you really think this oni has ever known the touch of a man?

>>47073576
>Eiki gave a 50% chance for Reimu to survive or be sentenced to Uber hell for all eternity
How do you misread a page that badly.
Stop being an esl.

>>47073605
Literally what the page states, she either wins the fight, or she gets stuck being eaten by the arm/being stuck in Avicii for forever. Pretty straightforward

>>47073676
I pray life is easy on you, as someone who clearly has a two-digit IQ.

>>47071256
>Because people keep treating Byakuren like a holy perfect all-loving woman
No they dont, go back to R*ddit where they do that and stop shitting the threads.

>>47071256
You are mistaking us for another group. We love Byakuren for her faults here and would never dream of trying to fix her.

>>47042590
Because no real major updates have been dropped recently, it's all just minor graphical changes with all the bugs still there.

>>47073946
>We love Byakuren for her faults here and would never dream of trying to fix her.
I can make her worse.

>>47072546
>Kasen
>Byakuren
>The kindest

>>47073576
>>47074027
Anons are really putting on their thinking caps in this thread. Good job!

>>47074091
Wonderful, so now just disagreeing with some outlandish claim like that is enough to be labeled as "the enemy" and be merged into a single entity by a bunch of schizos, thats just great.

>>47074164
Stop crying Anon, besides we all know the real kindest 2hu is __you__
Everybody else is a worthless whore.

>>47073969
That's the spirit!

>>47046489
Total futaryan survival.

>>47066017
What do you think the Tengu actually do with those they abduct in Gensokyo?
I think the legends say it's they just keep the around as plaything, but there's also tales of them teach people magic, writing skills, or putting them to work.
My pet theory is that they want to get more underlings under them, because Tengu society is like a pyramid scheme and the more people you have under you the better.

>>47074334
I'd be happy to be under Iizunamaru-sama, if you're pickin' up what I'm throwin' down.

Finally, this fucking awful thread is over.

>>47074402
You know this is all just going to happen again right? That we're have the discussion about how much we love this beautiful and flawed creature and how much we'd like to tell her that death is not such a scary thing and that it's okay to forgive yourself and others?

>>47074402
Byakuren forgives you even if you don't want her to.

>>47074473
>Byakuren forgives
Only if you drink, break her temple's precepts or assault humans. Oh, but only if you're a youkai.

>>47074402
I am going to make another of these threads once I get home so the spite can continue.

>>47074460
Byakuren's Samsara is to never be able to hear the kind words of everyone who hopes she can find peace and happiness with those around her. To never know how many want her to not have to fear the loss of others, and to be able to once again open her heart to care about those who will inevitably pass on, leaving her behind.

>>47074507
>>47074574
I don't even think it's a Samsara, It's my belief that all Hijiri wants is for someone to be kind to her, but because this is Gensokyo and she's running a youkai temple, it's near impossible!
Won't someone tell Hijiri she's doing a good job! can't anyone bake her some treats as thanks for all her thankless good deeds?

>>47074589
Making Hijirin break down and cry tears of joy by telling her you'll stand by her side and support her no matter what!
Noticing that she prepared you breakfast the next morning that looks suspiciously like liver!

>>47074639
Imagine, all this time, Hijiri hasn't done 99% of the horrible things she's been accused of, but then you express your unconditional love for her, and for a moment she's happy...
Until she realizes that your going to die someday and THATS when she goes out and does something nefarious. All because you were nice to her.
Now that's a tragedy!

>>47074695
Surely she wouldn't do anything so dastardly!
That redheaded waitress that I was getting along with suddenly avoiding me around the time I started visiting the Myouren Temple is just a coincidence!

Our lord who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil amen

>>47074889
Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers all wrongs.

>>47074968
peace be with you

>>47074027
>She has never been seen enraged and gives the impression of a good-natured old grandmother.
Indeed.