/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>46552860
>5 May
3 May*

The Merrys want to scissor eachother.

merry dying lole

01. Morning dawns on Tanabata Hill
02. Inequality Tinker Bell
03. Does the Forbidden Door Lead to This World, or the World Beyond?
04. Smoking Dragon
05. Mugen Noh 〜 Taboo Marionette
06. Crazy Backup Dancers
07. Yorimashi Between Dreams and Reality 〜 Necro-Fantasia
08. The Lonely Hitachi Route
09. The Lamentations Known Only by Jizo
10. The Concealed Four Seasons
11. Ghosts are Still There Even When it's not Nighttime

The door on the cover, the references to noh, taboo, and the HSiFS songs mean Okina's involved.

>>46552899
Crazy Backup Dancers and The Concealed Four Seasons? This makes me happy, thank you ZUN

clearly this is the story about how Okina made Maribel into a magical girl

I was actually going to make a Hifuu thread in anticipation of a possible new release, but it seems ZUN announced it a bit earlier than I expected.
I wonder if there will be a second album soon after, or will we have to wait another 8 years.

>>46552899
>08. The Lonely Hitachi Route
Oh no, Renko is dead and Maribel has to masturbate alone now, how sad.

>>46552860
>七夕坂夢幻能 〜 Taboo Japan Disentanglement
Tanabata Hill Mugen Noh ~ Taboo Japan Disentanglement
Apparently Tanabata Hill is a place in Hitachiota, Ibaraki prefecture, and Ibaraki used to be called Hitachi which is referenced in the title of the 8th track.

>Okina song dominate the album
>Yukari theme is there as well
Finger crossing we get vague Sages lore

>yukari ribbon that wasn't on maribel's hat before
lore implications or not? your choice

>>46552860
>oh no I'm becoming Yukari
>thanks Okina

>>46552899
Fucking finally. Also
>Does the Forbidden Door Lead to This World, or the World Beyond?
I hope it will be good

>Tanabata hill is a hill in Kuj district, Yamada village, in Hitachi. On the morning of the Seventh of July you mustn't pass it. If you do, something extraordinary will happen. (a line I don't understand) It is said that the procession of the matsuri of Kanasa shrine are silent when passing this place.

>>46552860
Will we finally get an answer?

>>46553039
Sage lore is more likely
>Okina centric
>Yukari theme again
>”Hitachi” mentioned in this >>46553024 post can be read as “Ibaraki” in old Japanese

>>46552952
>>46552955
>>46552961
>>46553047
Who are you quoting?

It’s clear ZUN is finally doing the obvious after so long, but I’m just curious how Renko factors into this. That’s really always been the question, and while it could be as simple as her being left alone in the future there’s still a range of ways this could go. Then again, she could just end up peacing out at the start and most of the story focuses on the sages instead.

I'm fucking sick of Okina this bullshit wanker goddess. I hate her so fucking much. She does nothing but sit in a chair and pretend she is smart.
It is obvious she is the 'Yukari replacement" even though Yukari can't be replaced.
ZUN is a fucking nigger who is ruining Touhou as we speak and Okina is the fucking embodiment of the fall of Touhou.
Touhou started changing for the worst when Touhou 13 came out it just kept falling until we got the piece of shit known as Okina.
Okina go away I hate you so fucking much. I just want to see Yukari again motherfucking go die Okina

>>46553130
Renko will just pick up Sumireko's cape ala Simon from TTGL and go into Gensokyo through a dream like her ancestor.

Zum music is shite (especially after 16)

This has to be the gayest cover art ZUN has ever done and I mean that in the best way possible

>>46553130
The thing I've always wanted to know about was how the identity switch actually happened. Was it a sudden finger-snap and now she's a hag, a slow thing, a willing thing, some kinda Youkai-esque dementia/personality death, or whatever else. We've had many teases over the years and a degree of knowing why it's happening what with everything surrounding TORIFUNE, but the loss of the Maribel identity is the #1 most important to me. How Renko herself ties into it feels secondary to me at most. Just so long as it's not some 2010 fanfic shit where Renko dies and Maribel becomes Maribella Amarilla in a rage.

>>46553047
What about marisa's girlfriend?

I feel bad for Renko

>>46553130
>It’s clear ZUN is finally doing the obvious after so long
Is the obvious you speak of the "Maribel = Yukari" theory?

>>46553130
Since Maribel started off with the ability to observe boundaries and it evolved into her being able to manipulate them, I think it would make sense if Renko gained the ability to manipulate space-time and used it to travel back in time with Maribel and they create Gensokyo.

>>46553380
And then Renko would become the first hakurei.

>>46552860
This is probably supposed to be a dramatic picture, but Mari's face with the motion blur just makes me laugh.
Dynamic pose really is the bane for ZUNart.

>>46553324
What theory? It's a fact that at some point she becomes Yukari.

>>46553409
Actually, let me rephrase this.
It's a fact that she has some incredibly deep relation to Yukari.

>>46553386
There must also be something about the moon, since it's the source of half of Renko's power

>>46553386
>And then Renko would become the first hakurei.
Renko will be Sumireko's mother

>>46553380
>Renko is the 4th sage
>Gensokyo was created as a way to escape fantasyless future
I'd be all for it to be honest.

>Morning Dawns on Tanabata Hill
>Inequality Tinker Bell
>Mugen Noh ~ Taboo Marionette
>The Lonely Hitachi Route
>Ghosts Are Still There Even When It's Not Night
I'm thinking Merry's already going to be gone when the story starts and the plot is Renko going after her

>>46553380
Thank you for making me feel completely retarded for now just noticing that Renko's ability involves both space and time.
We can add that to the concerningly long list of things connecting her to Yumemi.

>>46552860
How did a good girl like Merry turn into the annoying socially awkward friendless yukari

>>46552860
That is one ugly Renko.

>>46553474
a thousand years of pain (no renko)

>　今回の新譜は、哀しくて勇ましい、不穏で美しい内容になっています。
>This new album is sad and brave, disturbing and beautiful.
What's going to happen?

>>46552860
>CDS is going full speed on Gensokyo's creation
>Ran's past is in the spotlight for quite some time now
>and now this
ZUN please don't fuck this up

>>46552955
The ribbon is the actual gap youkai piloting Merry's corpse

>>46553487
We're really digging deep on Gensokyo's backstory, I'm curious what the hell Touhou 20's plot will be

>>46553487
>Yeah, I'll get to tying this all together...right after I finish a few more of these glasses *haha*

>>46553487
Prepare for the biggest bluest balls of your lifetime.

>>46553487
you MIGHT get one of those being okay. Not good, but maybe okay.

I love all these people quoting things without any citations.

>>46553485
Maribel realizing she's actually much prefer blonde than brunette

>>46553487
Feels like ZUN is wrapping things up conveniently for Touhou 20. Maybe that will be the grand finale of the series?
Hopefully this will be good, I've been waiting for new Merry and Renko stories for a long time

>>46553532
I love this Touhou 20 is the grand finale meme so fucking much because it has had absolutely no basis in any form of reality for years.

Touhou will end when ZUN dies. It's his passion project and more importantly income, you fucking retards.

>>46553380
>>46553386
This is literally the plot of that one Stack song

>>46553463
I always knew it would come down to this...

>>46553152
Calm down, Tenma

>>46552860
Do you guys think Yuyuko's gonna make a cameo here?

>>46553487

>>46553539
After Touhou 20 released, ZUN will reverse his lenient copyright policy and start to sue all 2hu's fanworks without his permission

>>46553575
Ultimate plot twist: Stack is Zun's wife

>>46553590
Y'know, I can't argue with that!

>>46553585
Yuyuko spooking a younger version of her friend.

I wonder if Yukari still remembers this

>>46553324
Late to reply here, but yes. There’s a little room left for interpretation, but this is looking really damning for it being true as many suspected. Between the album name, song choices, and ZUN’s description, I don’t think this will be a copout.

>>46553485
Will it be as melancholic as jacket-chan's album?

>>46553380
It would be real sudden to learn that Renko was all along actually this powerful being behind the scenes, yet at the same time I’d be fine with it just to give her a happier ending.

>>46553485
CRAAAAWLING IIIIIN MY SKIIIIIN

touhou 20 will be a partner game and yukari/reimu will have renko as the final boss, and the first thing yukari will do is admonish renko for being late, just like she always was on their hifuu trips

>>46553487
Don't forget Mitsumari being the creator of Yin-Yang Orb. Hang on tight bros, Touhou 20 will be the real lore revelation.

>>46553793
Early windows era Zun was depressing, I don't think he can go back. In terms of style for sure, he doesn't use the same instruments now. Personally I love post-TD Zun music style though.

>>46553487
Where does Miyoi's manga leading up to?

>>46553865
Miyoi will use her memory altering ability on the entire Gensokyo so everything goes back to the status quo.

>>46553795
Her power would just evolve, like Maribel's did.
>>46553803
What if Renko is Chang'e and the game takes place on the moon

>>46553865
the youkai got more and more lax about keeping themselves hidden in the village, eventually ending in a PMiSS style version of the village where everyone knows that youkai frequent the place

>>46553532
I can’t see 20 being an actual finale, but I do expect it to be another big game for the lore. Even beyond other material and character introductions, the fact ZUN finally did another Phantasmagoria game after so long makes me feel we’re approaching the end of an era.

>>46553487
>ZUN please don't fuck this up
And then they all had tea together, the end

>>46553865
Sex with me specifically.

>>46553905
Those are unironically my favorite endings he's done.

>>46553905
Would be a good book end if done correctly

>>46553883
It would make sense that Touhou 20 would be special some way or another, it's a nice even number and all that.

MoF was Touhou 10 and he did a mechanical reboot for that and started incorporating a different aproach to the lore and world from there on.

Very curious to see what's gonna happen here.
>>46553905
19 touhou games later this Anon still doesn't understand that tea is the answer.

>>46553487
If only.. never fucking ever ;_;

>>46553865
I don't think he even has more than the vaguest idea. Unlike, say, WaHH or FS (and probably CDS) where he had a concrete idea where to end up, LE seems to be like the fairy mangas where he wanted a manga and didn't really have any idea where to go with it. So we're probably going to have a lot of SoL stories that don't even build up to a serious resolution.
For all its flaws, SSiB was one of the better stories from a purely technical perspective and I think he should go back to writing tight mangas with clearly defined plots.

>>46554060
Honestly I am actually kind of ok withLE turning into an “introduction manga” where ZUN let us see newer and less used 2hu do things. We really need such manga

>>46553883
>end of an era
>>46553905
Everything post-MS was Yuuka's dream

>>46554080
yeah, the problem is he's not really doing that, he's just coming up with banal mysteries and having one of aya/mamizou/suika solve it
for every chapter where a lesser seen 2hu gets to do something, there's five or more where one of the aforementioned three do it
the die was cast when he refused to have anyone other than those three learn about geidontei's secret night bar

>>46554080
More Mamizou and Aya, got it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov-210nan3I

>>46554357
Jfc Yuyuko stop being so horny and dress properly.

>>46554551
She intentionally dressed like that to rile up Renko, she want to establish dominance as Yuka-I mean, Maribel's best friend.

>>46553039
If ZUN pulls some shit like "Maribel is Yukari because of Okina" I am done with official Touhou works.

>>46554942
it'd be the exact same type of world-shrinking he did by making the lunar capital the dragon palace, so I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest

>>46554966
So why exactly is a youkai (oarfish) watching over Earth and warning Earthlings about natural disasters if she works for the Moon which is antagonistic towards Earth?

>>46554966
Yeah, gonna expect the worst. If that doesn't happen at the very least I will be pleasantly surprised.

>>46554942
She's just looking for new underlings in the future since her last two weren't working out too well.

>>46554986
Since when did Dragon Palace = Moon? Iku works for only the dragon god himself, not the lunarians. Even though the Watatsuki Sisters are commonly depicted as daughters of Watatsumi, I think the lore in Touhou is different.

>>46555176
ZUN was chugging the hack juice really hard at the time

>>46555187
>then

>>46555187
I still hold that this was just a (drunk) mistake, given how Toyohime in CiLR clearly just made up the stuff about the Lunar Capital being the Dragon Palace, and that kind of lie would sound really silly if the Palace actually is right there.
It's just a part of the lore that becomes completely incoherent even if you think about it for only five seconds.

>>46555187
By this logic, Dragon God rules both Gensokyo and Lunar Capital at the same time.

>>46552955
holy shit holy shit holy shit holy shit holy shit

>>46552860
Renko will either become Yumemi and be searching for Yukari or become the first Hakurei.
Maybe even both.
Actually I’m definitely setting my standards too high and ZUN will just vaguely allude to it.

>>46555257
>zun
>-pc-98
Pick one.

>>46555257
ZUN hates 98hus and none of them will appear or be mentioned again, I think these references only indicate that renko was inspired by yumemi just like sakuya was by yumeko

>>46555203
He really peaked in the mid-2000s and it's been all downhill from there.
Villagers weren't living in constant fear, they could safely leave the village (at least during the day) and go around Gensokyo, even travelling as far as the Giant Toad's pond halfway up Youkai Mountain, Misty Lake was actually populated instead of being considered a Lake of Death were only a handful of fairies would want to live, and youkai could openly visit and deal with the humans...
Trying to make the lore more "serious" while also not having anything have actual consequences really made a mess of things.

>>46555296
I agree. But hifuu is not affected by this because it was always serious from the beginning

>>46555296
Wait, what happened to Misty Lake?

>>46555326
the latest canon is that it's devoid of fish aside from wakasagihime and there's a faint smell of blood around it
Hatate in DS:
>I'm so jealous of her being able to swim in the clouds like that!
>When I went to the river, the kappa were in the way, and there was the faint scent of blood at the lake... I want to see the open ocean one more time...

>>46555352
Okay, yeah, that's pretty dumb.

>>46555296
Man, the 2hu rape doujins at that time really did a number on ZUN that he had to make humans vulnerable and weaker.

>>46555308
Yeah, but it was also pretty separate from the main stories. If they're actually going to be connected more, it's definitely an overall detriment.
>>46555326
As per PMiSS:
>Encounterable youkai: Fairies and youkai living by the lake, the youkai of the Scarlet Devil Mansion.
>Near the lake fairies and youkai often gather, and, especially in summer, youkai gather there in search of a watering hole.
>The lake is also famous for monstrously large fish (*9) that are caught on extremely rare occasions on nights of the new moon.
>There are many anglers that cast their lines here, dreaming of catching a whopper (*10).
It used to be way more populated in early canon, and villagers going there wasn't unusual, but in DDC Sakuya was surprised to see a mermaid in such a -dead lake" (and she lives near it, so she'd see it frequently), and in VFiS, Larva remarks on it being a "Lake of Death", and even fairies wouldn't want to live there, with the exception of those that hate the cold like Cirno. It just became so much more lifeless after the change for no actual benefit.

How do I get Seishart stains out of my clothes?

>>46555352
>>46555396
>>46555326
Isn't that from the tabletop game? That's not fucking canon lmao

>>46555296
I don't mind the darker tone, honestly I prefer it, but I agree that I'd like to see more consequences in canon.
The dark tone, is just the logical conclusion of things being expanded on, of course the human villagers are going to fear youkai, heck if they didn't Forbidden Scrollery couldn't happen, Lotus Eaters, and to an extant WaHH also need this plot point to work.
Although I agree, making Misty Lake lifeless is silly, why wouldn't there be fish there.

>>46555624

>>46555352
It sort of looks like ZUN doesn't care much about canon to begin with, and whenever he can't remember some details he just makes up a new concept instead of looking back.
In fact, he seems allergic to the idea of ever looking back at the works he's made in the past, if the fact touhou 19 doesn't have Phantasmagoria in its subtitle is any indication.

>>46555635
considering the definition of phantasmagoria
>a confused group of real or imagined images that change quickly, one following the other as in a dream
it's possible that unfinished dream was supposed to be phantasmagoria of all living ghost

>>46553803
Would be pretty kino.
>>46553380
Renko could become Reimu literally and Reimu is literally immortal via time powers, her fantasy heaven is just Renko/Reimu making herself "be late" to each attack thus phasing through her.
Reimu doesn't remember shit because abusing time powers makes you silly(see Sakuya).

>>46555633
It's still not canon, we don't even know the extent of it he wrote, if he had any requests, or so on. Maybe the game designers didn't want to deal with fish existing in the game for some reason and mentioned that to ZUN. I consider this on the same level as calling Touhou LostWord canon just because ZUN has given them his input on things before. Hell, ZUN has drawn Yuyuko with massive floating saggy tits but no one will call that canon sadly.

If it's not an official work, it's not canon. At best you might say it offers some insight in how he views it but nothing beyond that. Inaba of the moon and inaba of the earth has more canon-merit to it.

Inconsistencies in Gensokyo's worldbuilding and tone can easily be explained by the unreliable narrator, and I don't mean zun being drunk. FS has a mysterious and sinister tone because it's from Kosuzu's viewpoint, a human intrigued but still scared of the world of youkai, and very vulnerable to it. You then make your own Gensokyo in your mind with what you believe is real. It's that easy.

>>46555643
That's what I believe too, either that or Phantasmagoria of Unfinished Dream if we take the definition "bizarre or fantastic combination, collection" as a collection of ghosts.
The main point is ZUN probably forgot how the other games were subtitled and didn't even care to check, otherwise he would have used one of those subtitles.

>>46555682
>and I don't mean zun being drunk
heh

>>46555296
>Trying to make the lore more "serious" while also not having anything have actual consequences really made a mess of things.
Touhou has a lot of juxtaposition going on. The characters are intentionally designed to look cute and harmless in contrast to their personalities. It makes sense that Gensokyo would be an extension of that, a whimsical, beautiful land that's actually incredibly dangerous because humans aren't and were never meant to be the dominant species.

>>46555682
B-But anon... how can I make Grimsokyo vs Moesokyo thread t-then???

>>46555682
cope

>>46555696
>>46555697
Wtf we posted in the same time

>>46555682
Yeah, it's clearly a biased perception of the world. It's the same reason why Reimu changes so much between manga incarnations. Her WaHH self is childish and stupid because that's how Kasen sees her. Her fairy manga counterpart is serious and has a threatening aura about her because fairies are afraid of her. Forbidden Scrollery has a more heroic Reimu because Kosuzu looks up to her.

>>46555682
>>46555739
That only goes so far, though. You can't tell a coherent story arc if everything and everyone is constantly completely contradicted by another. Rashomon only worked because it was entirely self-contained.

>>46555658
>It's still not canon, we don't even know the extent of it he wrote, if he had any requests, or so on.
I find that unlikely. The book includes an example game with ZUN and the author and you can tell they have very different views of Gensokyo, i.e. the players having a good time playing cute girls while the author DMs a fantastical land, all the while ZUN roleplays the crimson slayer and calling every time someone does anything shady as something that would happen. ZUN is the one who wanted the world to be bleaker, so while I too hesitate to call the game a hundred percent canon, his flavor text still give us insight.
>Maybe the game designers didn't want to deal with fish existing in the game for some reason and mentioned that to ZUN.
Again, the designers have another version of Gensokyo in mind, besides, it's not just the lake, Eintei is described as a shady, backdoor clinic, so multiple places have a bleaker description. The way you're talking makes me think you didn't read the book, which is a shame because seeing ZUN roleplay as Reimu is fun.
>I consider this on the same level as calling Touhou LostWord canon just because ZUN has given them his input on things before.
I don't believe those two are comparable in the level of input ZUN has given, again, they brought him on for an example game and had him write lines for every playable character aside from the flavor texts mentioned before.
>Hell, ZUN has drawn Yuyuko with massive floating saggy tits but no one will call that canon sadly.
Yuyuko with massive tits is canon, just you wait until he draws again with his newfound talent, he'll give her a (very) slight shadow on the chest area(double Ds by 2hu standards)!
>If it's not an official work, it's not canon.
True.
>At best you might say it offers some insight in how he views it but nothing beyond that.
Why do you downplay that fact? He is the creator, the way he views his own world is the canon way.

>>46555682
>>46555739
>>46555759
So the main games are the most objective interpretations of the characters then?

>>46555776
I don't think ZUN thinks of the games as the objective view either, or at least not all the time
the only time, according to ZUN, that reimu has ever displayed her true self is the final route of ULiL

>>46555775
>Why do you downplay that fact? He is the creator, the way he views his own world is the canon way.
Because creators can have tons of ideas and views of their world and not commit them to paper/canon for a variety of reasons. That's the creative process. This could very well be a place for ZUN to toss out these more experimental ideas that doesn't impact actual canon. Or him to shoot the shit. Or to showcase a specific version of Gensokyo he thinks fits the tt system well.

>>46555658
>ZUN has drawn Yuyuko with massive floating saggy tits
It was his wife who made that drawing.

>>46555257
Seeing these old covers reminds me how much worse ZUN art style has gotten...

>>46555827
yeah except he spends half the sample game going 'that's not right, was gensokyo really like that?' and 'those youkai shouldn't be in the village'

>>46555796
>It's not beautiful at all!
>There's nothing worthwhile about a suicide bombing!
>I am the shrine maiden of paradise,
Reimu Hakurei!
>I'll protect the Barrier, no matter what!
>And I'm not gonna let some human
die stupidly right in front of me!
This one is something everyone should agree upon in every aspect of Reimu.

>>46555872
The Youkai Shrine Maiden protecting humans!
Blasphemy, this rotten and corrupt enforcer of the law would never save a human life, she'd sooner sacrifice them to the youkai.

>>46555922
>she'd sooner sacrifice them to the youkai.
proof?

>>46552860
About fucking time. ZUN clearly hasn't put much effort into the games lately so I hope this one delivers.

>>46555626
>of course the human villagers are going to fear youkai, heck if they didn't Forbidden Scrollery couldn't happen, Lotus Eaters, and to an extant WaHH also need this plot point to work
So Touhou is literally made worse by grimshit? Who would've thought?

>>46556044
Yeah, didn't the extinction of the yamabiko clue you in on how Gensokyo works?
The humans that you find hanging out and partying with monsters are are our MCs, not the average schmuck in the village.

>>46556070
that used to BE the average schmuck in the village...

>>46556044
Well it was an eventuality anyway, if Gensokyo was a paradise then there wouldn't be any stories to tell.
Even early on there was a confrontational relationship between humans and Youkai, and Gensokyo being made for the Youkai is foundational to Touhou.
So as the world is explored, naturally this conflict if humans and Youkai comes up, and the fact is Youkai are the dominant force of Gensokyo and it exists for their sake.

>>46556075
How does one get into situation like this exactly? Just walking in the forest one day, see a party filled with a bunch of evil demons and you just decide to join because of the spooky band?
Sounds terrifying.

>>46552951
>>46553024
Looks like this is the entrance to it.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.613602,140.4479399,3a,75y,127.12h,88.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seoLkqDpEfIbwT697on_Q8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

>>46556121
The music's just that good

>>46556121
Pull over dat ZUNpet too fat

>>46556180

>>46556121
Some villagers are pretty brave, like the ones who gamble with youkai in LE

>>46555862
I really don't like how flat the colors are in his new character portraits

>>46556198
That's because they're suicidal, not because they're brave.
Just like the ones that attend Mystia and Kyouko's concerts.

>>46556198
never forget that one motherfucker who was sneaking all the way up youkai mountain by himself to the false heaven shelf so he could sneak into sannyo's gambling den and gamble with youkai in their own turf

>>46556201
He went full digital, it is understandable
He use to draw it on paper with watercolor and scan it during the EoSD-IN era

>>46556261
The flat colors being due to going full digital is understandable
Going full digital is not understandable, when the result looks so bad

>>46556261
I wish he'd go back to scanning physical drawings then

>>46556305
dude you are going to break my sovlmeter

>>46556261
Going lazy means not caring much about quality. We know ZUN can do some lovely art, even with his childish looking designs, but it's like he only cares about that when he goes to conventions or parties.

>>46555776
Even the games are weird in how ZUN just picks and chooses the parts that actually become canon in later print works/manga.

So for example, in one of the Fairy Wars endings, Cirno meets with Aya, who directs her to Marisa for a fight. And while Marisa holds back and clearly has the upper hand, she also comments on how Cirno proved to be a much more dangerous opponent than she expected and that thing could've ended badly for her.
However, in SoPM, the newspaper article detailing the event instead makes Hatate the tengu Cirno talked to, and describes the battle as completely one-sided without any challenge for Marisa, making it impossible to determine how well Cirno actually did in that match.
LoLK is another example. In VFiS, Clownpiece implies that she faced all the protagonists, and she's pretty intimidated by them. Reimu also knows Hecatia, so that implies that at least she was involved during the events of the Extra Stage.
After her defeat, Junko and Hecatia ask Reimu to take them to Eirin since they wanted to meet her, however, Eirin proves to be completely clueless about Hecatia's existence in VFiS, which makes that particular event impossible. Hecatia's existence (though not necessarily her identity) also becomes known in one of Reisen's endings, which makes her scenario also impossible to have happened as it was shown in the games.

It's impossible to determine an accurate canon from the games, since you never know which part ZUN considers as actually happening in later works.

>>46556204
He was oozing so concentrated chad aura that no yokai dared to lay a finger on him

>>46556305
>2022
You could have told me this was drawn in 2008 and I would have believed it. I can't believe ZUN can still draw in his old style and just doesn't.

>>46555352
It's so weird how quickly this whole change came.
We even know that it's connected to at least one river and that kappa occasionally float by, so does that mean that there's no fish in any of those rivers, either, or do they just vanish mysteriously once they reach the lake?

>>46554966
The Dragon Palace is also atop Youkai mountain were Bhavaagra is, I also remember there being something about a city of gods inside of the mountain's peak.

>>46556579
The Great Fairy Wars killed all life in the Misty Lake. It was a great tragedy.
Also all of the non-named youkai exterminators, leader of the Human Village (who may or may not actually be the Master Carpenter) with his son, Keine's face, Alices relevance, Nitori's old personality, ZUN's ability to write a non-episodic story and Mima all died in the horrible traffic accident caused by the Wars involving the last Gensokian bus exploding.
It trully was the World War I of Gensokyo.

>>46556931
>Nitori's old personality
What's this about?

>>46556931
I wish we could've seen more of original Nitori

>>46556954
I assume he means Nitori's depictions and descriptions in MoF and SA, which contrast heavily with the Jew Kappa she's more known for being ever since WaHH.

>>46556931
>Nitori's old personality
she was always like that
now, sakuya's backstory on the other hand...

>>46557000
We're never going to find out about the relationship between Eirin and Sakuya.

>>46557000
Sakuya's personality got scuffed too, she mellowed way out.

>>46557035
When did Eirin comment on Sakuya again?
I don't really see how the airheaded and ruthless maid can be connected to the Lunarians.

>>46557157
It's from Eirin's IN profile.
I don't think any such thing is even mentioned in the game itself. It's just the one line here.

>>46557226
Oh, so that's what https://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/9937 is referring to.

>>46556954

>>46557226
ZUN also says that explaining sakuya’s backstory would be equivalent to a game’s worth of content

>>46557428
[citation needed]

>>46557428
So about three pages of a manga?

>>46557428
>in b4 Touhou 20 is Sakuya's origin story

>>46553174
>>46553130
my headcanon i stole is that the two of them get transported back into the asuka period or something in an accidental gap, and renko becomes the hakurei god through some wacky faith stuff while yukari becomes the local cryptid

throw some unsaid backstory into the mix and maybe you have a reason for why yukari cares about reimu and the shrine maidens, it's sort of her responsibility after renko went into hibernation (?). it kind of ruins the mystery around some things but it's better than the 'renko dies' or 'yukari is guilty and leaves renko behind' trope people always go for

Touhou 20 will be all about Lily White, Lily Black and the introduction of the elusive Lily Purple (the real Yukari Yakumo who the imposter Maribel took the place of with help from Okina)

>>46553868
FUCK YOU AND YOUR HAPPY ENDINGS

>>46557413
miss shytori so much

Toho lore and music bros... We're about to eat so damn good!

>>46555257
but then who is Chiyuri?

>>46557618
I think only Yukari was transported. I don't understand why people relate reimu and renko when they should relate renko and sumireko

>>46557726
Jenny Hearn

>>46557618
>asuka period
Too young. That's only like, 1.5x Aya.
This hag needs to be at least three thousand years old to have any appeal.

>>46557618
>>46557782
You guys are forgetting that merry mentions that her family also has the powers

>>46557814
Yeah because she's also Yukari's descendant.
She goes back in time, becomes Yukari, has kids, and then her family eventually gives rise to Marrybell who goes back in time and becomes Yukari.

>>46557840
wtf

>>46557840
damn hag performing the ultra rare reverse double-dip

>>46557840
>becomes Yukari, has kids
yeah right

>>46557440
>I blurred the finer details of Sakuya and Remilia's settings because I had planned to publicize
those somewhere eventually, but that occasion never arose (laugh)
>What I will say is, Sakuya isn't from Gensokyo.
Sakuya Izayoi is a name given to her by Remilia, and her real name is different.
>Anything else, I plan to reveal later, so for now, I'll keep my secrets. (laugh)
-ZUN’s emails on the wiki
There’s this image too. I remember reading this on the wiki but I can’t remember where

Don't Maribel and Gensokyo exist simultaneously in time since she was able to visit it?
Seeing as Okina's job is to protect Gensokyo from the outside world, it wouldn't be too surprising to me that she'd notice people crossing over the border on their own, and of course her two slaves tend to do all of the world for her...
I wonder then if they're going to come across a backdoor rather than traveling through dreams like usual.

>>46557440
>I blurred the finer details of Sakuya and Remilia's settings because I had planned to publicize
those somewhere eventually, but that occasion never arose (laugh)
What I will say is, Sakuya isn't from Gensokyo.
Sakuya Izayoi is a name given to her by Remilia, and her real name is different.
Anything else, I plan to reveal later, so for now, I'll keep my secrets. (laugh)
-ZUN’s emails on the wiki
There’s this image too. I remember reading this on the wiki but I can’t remember where

>>46557849
Sumireko is straight, though.
She likes cute boys who are into the occult and is super breedable.
>>46557859
Yukari's womb may be old and useless, but her dick works fine, anon.

>>46557863
>>46557881
Take it easy anon, there's no rush

My Maid Sweet Maid arrange never

>>46557840
Is that some kind of greek mythology porn level mixed with schizo stuff ? Or I am completly wasted as a oni and didn't understand jackshit?

>>46557971
Well, Yukari Merrybell is greek...

What is Okina's end goal

>>46557440
The attached image is what I read.
The source is https://wikiwiki.jp/bougetsu/変更点のまとめ
I can't verify how much is true, but this seems to be a legitimate statement from ZUN.

Here is another statement related to the topic:

>I blurred the finer details of Sakuya and Remilia's settings because I had planned to publicize those somewhere eventually, but that occasion never arose (laugh)

>What I will say is, Sakuya isn't from Gensokyo. Sakuya Izayoi is a name given to her by Remilia, and her real name is different.

>Anything else, I plan to reveal later, so for now, I'll keep my secrets. (laugh)

I didn't realize the line-breaks were part of the message and not the post box's formatting.
>>46557927
:)

>>46553585
I do hope they go to the Netherworld, it would be the mother of all throwbacks.

>>46558023
he needs to stop keeping secrets he will never elaborate on and only serve as fanwork bait.
that said im sorry Larva....

>>46557988
Oh... Bollocks...
>>46558015
No one knows, even herself. She might do it even for the lulz.

>>46558015
Securing alliances with major foreign powers so that she can oust the other sages and rule Gensokyo as its undisputed leader.

Then, fairies.

>>46558023
>you can see the colour of the eyes by playing the game
what did he mean by this

>>46558038
Larva, Tewi, Suwako, Cirno...
ZUN has a habit of making fanfiction bait Lolis, shame on him, shame on him.

Yet all I want to know what the hell Misumaru's deal is.

>>46558109
She is ballding

>>46555257
I really should get around to making a more complete list of Renko's connections to Yumemi. This image is missing quite a lot of info.
>>46555273
>>46555286
I would hesitate just a little at the prospect of it just being an inspiration. It's easy to hand-wave the smaller details, but things like Sumireko and Yumemi having nearly identical character stories or Renko losing faith in her
scientific colleagues while writing a book with merry about magical journeys and occult nonsense feels way to deliberate.

If there is anything of significance that is to transpire in Touhou 20, then it has to be fundamentally different than all preceding games.

You'll need 2 tiers of gameplay, each with their own 6 stages, each with their own extra, with the second tier having a bonus phantasmal encounter wrapping things up.
To get into the 2nd tier, you must naturally first complete the 1st and its extra.
Additionally, you must achieve this 'completion' with all involved playable characters, of which there will be 5-10

Among these playable characters, there must be a figure from each faction, putting aside Marisa and Reimu, with a special exception to the sages, due to their more 'background' involvement finally being lifted.

That means, 1 from the dwellers of the moon, 1 from the gods, 1 from the underworld, 1 from hell, 2 from the sages, 1 from the fairies, 1 from the mountaineers, 1 from the religiously subscribed, 1 from heaven, 1 from the vampire and vampire lieges, 1 from the oni, 1 from the underground, 1 from those who judge, 1 from the village vicegerents and lastly 1 from the forgotten.

Accessing the aforementioned playable characters will happen by some sequential order, in which you start naturally from Reimu, moving down to Marisa, and so on and so forth.

Provided the completion of the game is entirely established, a bonus bonus mode will be revealed, wherein you play a secret tier 3, with playable characters as only being all extra bosses from Touhou 6-18--non bullet hells notwithstanding, and with bosses only as these same extra stage characters, interacting and intermingling with one another.

if you can't have something on these scale, if you can't have a grand Touhou 20, then, well, that's fine, so long as it's grand, in some manner. That's the minimum required to settle down some turbulence raised by the lore.

Touhou 20: All Conclusion Of Mystical Revelry.
I hope it's something good, anyway.

>>46558369
ocean game
trust the plan

>>46558369
Touhou 20 is just going to be a standard game about the 4th beast faction. It might have an oddball player character, but I can't really see ZUN doing milestone celebrations.

>>46558369
Seems overly convulated for ZUN's standards.
Bet he doesnt want this many playable characters after 19
Just have it be IN electric bogaloo and touhou is saved

>>46558420
Touhou 20 Impermissible Night, Moon Destruction Story
Everybody who hates the moon teams up to destroy it, all fights are double battles.
Clownpiece and Larva
Satono and Mai
Kanako and Tewi
Okuu and Orin
Yukari and Suika
Junko and Hecatia
Extra: Koishi, Flandre, and Cirno

>>46557618
>throw some unsaid backstory into the mix and maybe you have a reason for why yukari cares about reimu and the shrine maidens, it's sort of her responsibility after renko went into hibernation (?).
Yukari cares about the Hakurei family because they are the ones who maintain the barrier. I don't think she's emotionally invested in them as much as she sees them as a necessary tool to maintain Gensokyo's balance. Hell, you could argue that Kanako and her cohorts serve as a backup in case Reimu dies. Kanako has ties to Okina (one of the sages) and Sanae is being trained to do Reimu's job.

>>46558445
>Junko
If this brings her back so be it lol

>>46558394
>>46558420
Yeah...I just had a moment of lucidity. Something on that scale is never happening. Not with Touhou, not with anything. Closest I've seen is CtC with its distinctions on boss encounters depending on shot-type selection and maybe BpoHC.

>>46558394
I think the fourth faction will just remain a mystery, like the fourth oni and other sages. It's just a hook for ZUN to maybe use a decade from now. 19 felt very much like the end of the beast realm arc to me and I can't see him going 'actually, let's go back there immediately'

>>46558483
Pretty much, if there's a group of four that's being revealed gradually, expect that fourth to never actually appear.

>>46558483
He really needs to explain what happened with Keiki, her army, and the human spirits.
There is some contradiction going on with just what is happening at the Primate Garden.

>>46557618
What makes you believe Yukari really cares about the Hakurei shrine maidens all that much beyond their critical role in maintaining Gensokyo?
I know that the whole thing of Yukari being Reimu's mommy is a long-standing meme, but she generally just pops up when she needs something from Reimu, or wants to instill a lesson about the "balance of Gensokyo" or whatever, but most of what she does is self-serving and Reimu would much rather not have to deal with her if at all possible.
Kasen is much more directly supportive and approachable, and even she tried to manipulate Reimu towards her own purposes at least once. Most characters in Touhou are just kind of cunts.

>>46558500
pfff according to a victory quote vs yacchie it has been half liberated or something like that.
I really do hope ZUN brings back Keiki in the future in a fightan or something because it really sucks a final boss has to take such a backseat to the other girls in 17 and 17.5

>>46558489
>The sages have been out of contact with Gensokyo society and each other for an unclear amount of time, with Yukari Yakumo being the only confirmed member of the group to remain publicly visible and active. In Spring 2010 or possibly earlier,[3] Kasen Ibaraki came down from Youkai Mountain and began taking a more active role in Gensokyo, though she does so under an alias and currently only Yukari and Okina are confirmed to be aware of her previous identity as a sage.[4] In the midsummer of 2017, Okina Matara returned to the public eye by causing an incident designed to catch everyone's attention, particularly that of the other sages.[5]

>Yukari as a sage revealed in 2003
>Kasen, another sage revealed, in 2010
>Okina, yet another, in 2017

7 year gaps for each of them. Around a decade is a good estimate, I guess though, regarding sages, I'm unsure if they'll be more. I think it was stated that they were 5 somewhere, but I'm sure that's been scrapped.

>>46558483
It's sad we're never going to see the Torakuma/Kuma-Doiji, although we already have a Tora(Tiger) so maybe we'd just get a Kuma.
Honestly I think having the bear demon be in the animal realm could be interesting, consolidate two roles into one with regradless to the last animal faction and the last member of the big four.

>>46558518
(Continuing)
Since it's 2024, if we don't get a sage this time around, we're never getting one.

>>46558483
I have a feeling they might strike now that the other three have been knocked down a peg by Zanmu. And of course, they'll return in a way that screams "direct sequel" but in an incident that has absolutely nothing to do with prior games other than the characters that appear, as per usual.

>>46558518
how the fuck has it been this long since HSiFS holy shit

>>46558525
I mean, unless tasofro announces a game (not happening because they're dead) or a new character unceremoniously appears in CDS or LE (also unlikely) it ain't happening. ZUN's forgot to sign up for comiket in the summer and we're probably not getting a game this year

>>46558518
I really dont think ZUN is gonna live another 7 years so he better kills two birds with one stone if you know what I mean

>>46557226
I thought that was mostly due to the similarities with Kaguya's powers, since stopping time and controlling eternity seem to have a lot in common.
>>46558023
>>46558085
That wakarimasu at the end... sucks being a dekinai since I understand that it means that you'll understand when playing the game but not sure how to properly translate that sentence.
Also afaik Sakuya and Eirin have the same pale-ass eye color(in the endings), but idk I guess maybe Sakuya has some lunarian blood? dunno, her name referencing the full moon is also just a thing given to her by Remi, so unless Remi's fate bs actually let's her see a bit into the memory layer like Reimu I guess that isn't too relevant.
>>46557859
more believable if it's has kids, then becomes Yukari?

Stop discussing grimshit and start posting RenMerry NOW

>>46558505
She secretly donates to Reimu in the fairies manga. She has no reason to do this if she is entirely mercenary in her approach to the Hakurei shrine. If she only cared about Reimu to the extent of the maiden's usefulness to her, Yukari would show Reimu the donation as to remind her who pays her bills

>>46558596
You bet!

>>46558612
not to mention it's pretty obvious that the reason she did her whole autistic saving kosuzu plan in FS was partly because she wanted to spare reimu the distress of having to kill kosuzu
if she truly didn't care, she'd have either let her kill kosuzu or told her straight up what was going on

>>46558394
idk looking at numbers maybe ZUN does care.
We have 6 about a demon due to the number of the beast.
In 7 we have a seasonal anomaly which makes sense because 7 are the number of impure colors represented in the undonge trees.
In 8 we have a moon related game because 8 and night relation
9 is about a cycle that happens every time aka infinity.
10 is a soft reboot to the series, representing the change to two digits.
At 15(night of the full moon) we have a mainly full moon based game.
Then at 16 we go back to demons(animal realm) and in 17 back to seasonal anomal... wait HSiFS was 16 and 17 was WBaWC fug I ran out of schizo juice.

>>46558676
I think you might be overthinking this.
ZUN has wanted to end Touhou multiple times in its lifespan, from MS, to EoSD, to IN, he brought it back because of the good sales and positive response to latest title.

>>46558676

>>46558738
Meant to reply to >>46558596
Text was removed somehow.

>>46558596
Of course

>>46558085
>>46558591
If im not wrong sakuya eyes change to red when she stops time or something like this

I fail to see the grimshit that the yuribros were talking about. Are they being schizophrenic again? I suppose it's not worth looking into.
All I see is talk regarding what TH20 would be about. As for me, I think it's gonna be a one and done incident with no correlation to the animal realm arc we've been in for five to seven years. It's about time we get back to basics with how it is going right now.

>>46558959
Warned you about making out in those dam ritual circles! but they never listen.
>>46559254
idk maybe grimshit was more referring to Touhou ending or ZUN not delivering.
>>46558962
afaik her eye color only changes to red in the fighters with her hack and slash special.
It was also red(effect of the red mist or ZUN zunning around) in EoSD but afterwards it's blue/gray.
Checked a bit in a few maingames and 9.5 but there doesn't seem to be any red eyed Sakuya portrait or sprite, just a red/brown-eyed IN Youmu portrait.

>>46557250
Well that was a strange and somewhat depressing read.

>>46553877
This seems reasonable. If you ignore the chronological release of PMiSS IRL and instead use it as a "finished" part of Akyuu's life's work then it would reflect the state of Gensokyo's affairs at the time of her death, which currently she is very much alive and kicking. Gensokyo's tumultuous past is steadying out into truly peaceful times. If only ZUN would release a 3rd databook, the fucker backed off on that.

>renmerry canon
>after that, every other 2hu is confirmed to be gay by ZUN

What the fuck do we do? I dont want to lose my 2hu wife...

>>46559703
who thou are quoting

>>46559703
Play by the new rules and become 2hu

>>46559254
I think ZUN should do another game with wholly original characters again, not tied to mythology very much if at all. Just steal another obscure manga character, change her hair, and call it a day.

A couple of people are already exploring Tanabatazaka. One gave up when he saw no entry signs and the other is trying to find something resembling a mountain path. He's there right now:
https://twitter.com/infoforjoin

>>46559861
I have a feeling somebody is going to end up dead, missing, or arrive back at civilization after receiving heavy damage.

>>46559861
What but why?

>>46559861
>ZUN leading people straight into youkai's den
DONT DO IT
TURN BACK

>>46559906
It's too late. I've already found two more posters currently there. The whole area is going to be swarming with hifuu nerds dying of exposure in a few hours.

>>46559920
Explain. They think ZUN hid something there?

Keep Yuuma relevant and I'm set for the next game. I definitely wouldn't mind something from PC-98 but that's never happening. Also just make it fun. I didn't find 19 all that fun but it had a good cast of characters and a neat incident.

>>46559920
>I've found the highest peak, but I can't find any triangulation points
Looking grim already.
There's a reason why people why aren't skilled in exploring the environment are supposed to stick to trails.

>>46559920
>撤収！道跡が消えたのでこれ以上は危険！
Yeah, the youkai got him. RIP.

>>46559930
They just want to go see what it's like.
Touhou pilgrimages are pretty popular because of how much ZUN takes from irl Japan. Some people make doujinshi about it.
https://twitter.com/denebo1a1eonis
https://twitter.com/kbyashu

>>46559964
>>46559970
We won't forget their sacrifice.

>>46559989
I guess before long the surviving pilgrims will build their shrine to Kasen now what they've found her birth place.

>>46559970
kek

Guys, Hifuu has a connection to ghosts, they got to meet Yuyuko. This album is a pretty important landmark, so what if Zun's big surprise is a certain other ghost returning to Touhou canon with it? LostWord might have put the idea out for Zun, but imagine if Mima came back through hifuu club

>>46560147
>ghost
Mizuchi it is then

>>46560156
>Mizuchi but she's a regular spirit now
would be cool

>>46560163
Mizuchi going the Tojiko route would be the best ending for her, she's a character I've grown quite fond of. Though I hope the plot gets an actual resolution and not just leave it all hanging in the wind with yet another "and everyone drinks together and forgets about it" ending

>>46560172
>tojiko
She is probably the one who can reason with Mizuchi, seeing as she also suffered the same fate as her (the clan being wiped out and getting tricked into becoming a vengeful ghost).

>>46553380
Yeah, I think people tend to forget that Renko also has a special ability even if Maribel's obviously have manifested more clearly. It could be a small detail that amounts to nothing, but just the fact ZUN went out of his way to give both girls abilities seems deliberate in some fashion. The fact it involves time and location is especially curious considering what is implied to have happened to Maribel. There's way more you can theorize looking at the full context of ZUN's works with the duo, but the fact this is one of the first traits we ever get for Renko seems crucial.

>>46558483
I agree on this. Maybe the fourth faction is an idea he wanted to do but never got around to fleshing out. 19 was the time to do it and he didn't go through with it. He can just flesh this faction out sometime later if he wants, similar to how he just added Megumu as a Stage 5 boss so far after the tengus debuted.

>>46558369
You don't have to rewrite the wheel for the game and I wouldn't expect such for it. 10 was a big refresh that added a major fashion and started a series of consecutive plots, and 15 finally gave us a serious in-game plot surrounding the Lunar Capital along with lore expansions along with Hell and the Dream World. Both of these could be argued as milestones in the story, but if you look at the games they're still typical Touhou experiences. 10 in fact was the game that would set forward the whole modern template going forward. Much as I'd like something ambitious, this is worth keeping in mind just for what to expect. I got a feeling the plot is going to introduce something major, although you could argue that's also down to timing with 18 and 19 coming off more as lore expansions rather than evolving the overall story.

>>46560288
Major faction, not fashion

>>46560254
I feel like Renko' ability is connected to the moon somehow, we do see something similar with Star and Luna of the fairies of Light who can locate things using Starlight and hide things using moonlight respectively.
If I remember Yukari did say to Luna her powers had hidden depths, and Youkai are very moon centric.
The Gensokyo barrier is also based on the Lunar barrier, so the monies have to be involved somehow.
Hmmm, Maybe Renko' s actual ability is that she has Lunatic eyes like Reisen does but has only figured out how to locate things is respective to the moon.
Merry does say Renko' has weird eyes...
Hmmm, or maybe it is a time-space thing.

What if the 4th sage isn't a youkai or other similar entity but is a psychic human like Sumireko or Renko?

>>46560193
Really dislike how the characters who show up in CDS are locked to their games. Unless you were Flan and the MCs

>>46559861
>>46559920
>>46559964
There's not going to be anything there lol.

>>46560341
The issue is age, but it's also possible that this human would have somehow found a way to halt their aging process without turning into a youkai or god. One of the first ideas of the Windows era did touch on that topic after all.

>>46559920
...People can't just use their spacial awareness to retrace their steps?

>>46560367
There will be soon, a memorial to all. Those eaten by arm-chan and the wonderful miss Yakumo.

Its over for them...

It looks like once you get into the path it's so overgrown that you can't make any progress. One guy saw these straw dummies beside a road nearby though,

>>46560503
No such thing as overgrown.
Push onward.
Find that world that lies beyond!

>>46560341
I thought it'd make sense
You have a pure youkai (Yukari, well maybe not so pure sincethe whole Merry thing is all but confirmed)
A god with okina
An oni with Kasen, PMiSS lists them as different from youkai, and didn't they disappear and survive in their own world for a while before Gensokyo was made? I'm always lost on that notion
A human would be the logical 4th choice in my opinion, Gensokyo used to be describe as a paradise for humans back in the PCB times, if ZUN hasn't forgotten that notion, it'd make sense to have a human there to me.
CDS is looking to also look into Gensokyo's origins, so it looks like this is the topic ZUN is on at the moment. The hifuu future looks to be so miserable that I wouldn't be surprised if Renko and Merry tell the other sages what the future is like and they collectively decide to create a fantasy land before it comes to be.

>>46552860
Renko has seen better days

>>46560511
>>46560341
The only problem is that neither of them are immortal. It would be a bad decision to have a council made up of three immortal beings and a mortal.
There needs to be a way for Renko to become immortal, like if she becomes a lunarian or something.

>>46560623
Simple, Renko became the Hakurei god lel
That or it's the Hakurei's duty that's been forgotten over the ages or something to that affair. I think it can be handwaved quite easily, it was the 4 sages at the time, so that'd be how you refer to them.

>>46560659
I think it would work even better if she became a lunarian. Gensokyo's barrier is similar to the one on the moon, yokai were created by the moon, and that's where Renko takes half of her power from.
And maybe the lunarians end up arresting her or something and that's why Yukari hates them

>>46560695
>And maybe the lunarians end up arresting her or something
Renko is Chang'e

>>46552899
Only thing I can assume is a tragedy strikes renko, what would motivate marry to go full yook and how does okina play into it?
Late may right?

>>46560709
That would be cool, has Chang'e been brought since SSiB? She seems to have been very important and then that went nowhere.

>>46560511
>>46560341
Fairy Sage is more likely, looking at the current Sages we can see each of them embodies an aspect of Gensokyo
>A legendary youkai
>A hermit
>A god
The next one should represent nature

>>46558023
Sakuya was the first test tube baby eirin thought she threw out, then made kaguya?

>>46558632
All of that has a pragmatic aspect.
Given that Reimu's best asset is firmly established to be how laid-back and easygoing she is, which is what makes the youkai like her so much, mindbreaking her by forcing her to kill Kosuzu would only make Reimu much less effective and exacerbate human-youkai tensions. It would make Gensokyo worse, from Yukari's perspective.
She goes out of her to be mysterious and impossible to understand, but with an undertone that as long as Reimu listens, things will be fine. It's not like she's outright malicious, but everything she does is still done with the purpose of making Reimu serve her better, while cementing her own position as a mastermind scheming from behind the scenes, rather than what would make Reimu happiest.

>>46560763
>Fairy Sage
Titania/Mab/Sybil/Morgan Le Fay/Yasha

>>46557840
>Yukari, has kids
He has like two friends at best and is hated by everyone, what makes you think that socially awkward hag can get herself a husband?

>>46560763
This would be the coolest thing to come out of Touhou, if true.
A fairy sage, a literal super tier fairy boss, would be so incredibly cool. She could then be used to explain the somewhat unusually more capable powers of Cirno, relative to all other fairies.
---But aside from that, a fairy sage, who takes revenge for all the fairies you've been mindlessly slaughtering in all the games, would just be awesome.
Her danmaku would DELIBERATELY be 'lame' and yet, all the same, incredible, for example.
-And her theme would be some remix of great fairy wars.

Why doesn't ZUN deliver?

>>46560763
>A hermit
Yeah sure...

>>46560763
>A youkai (?)
>A legendary oni
>A god

>>46553539
>Touhou will end when ZUN dies. It's his passion project and more importantly income, you fucking retards.
Why some fans want the franchise to continue mindlessly? Touhou is obviously having a decline in quality, and the worst thing that could happen is it to continue like that. It would be much better, a great finale and decent remember of it, rather than a mindless long runner franchise.

You either die as a hero, or live enough to see yourself turned into a villain.

>>46560763
>Fairy Sage
Eternity Larva is a sage confirmed

LARVABROS WE ARE SO BACK

>>46560989
>Why some fans want the franchise to continue mindlessly?
Because there are people who like the slop that we've been getting and they're asking for more.

>>46561140
I think is more like fear. I love Touhou, but I sincerely want it to end. Not because I hate it or anything, but because I think it deserves a good and lovely ending.

>>46560989
>>46561140
>>46561256
Touhou will never end at this point. It's like saying when Lovecraft will end. Honestly, Touhou is a genre.

>>46560989
I wouldn't mind a satisfying conclusion, but Zun himself has said things like "everything I try to do turns into Touhou anyway" and "the series is like my diary". And of course it's his livelihood too. So I don't really see him stopping anytime soon either.

2hu should die with ZUN. He might be a hack but it's still a passion project. I don't want to see some corporation get the rights to it and start producing endless slop (see lotr, minecraft, star wars etc)

>>46561373
Microsoft is gonna end up buying it, anon. Sorry about that.

>>46560763
A Fairy Sage seems pretty redundant given that Okina can already control the four seasons and life force in general.
Plus, the sages are generally considered to be the founders of Gensokyo, so the Fairy Queen would've had to have been around for a long time but refuse to get involved even when Okina was fucking around with fairies twice, the second time threatening their existence completely and risking them being sent to hell. It's kinda hard to introduce her now after all that, especially since fairies are not the secretive type. Plus, Okina never alluded to her despite being so surprised by Cirno. If there was a super-strong Fairy Sage, Cirno and her mastery of the back door wouldn't be much of a shock.

If you really want a Fairy Sage, you'd probably need to uplift an existing fairy like Larva or Cirno (or both) into that role, since they're already weird outliers who wield multiple seasons at the same time, but that's the kind of change to the status quo that ZUN would never commit to.

>>46561373
>I don't want to see some corporation get the rights to it and start producing endless slop
We're already halfway there with the gacha games being more popular than the originals and merch being made for the gacha only characters.

>>46561391
I remember That interview, where ZUN said he's glad a gacha game died, because it made people think it's official or got treated like one.

>>46559518
Indeed. The universe is a hellish place, and the laws of physics are a bitch.
If you're a mortal, you fucking die at some point.
If you're an immortal, you're doomed to spend the absolute majority of your lifetime in a state of stasis, either frozen in the middle of outer space or trapped inside a black hole, for a time that's so long, that the billion years you've spent living normally will seem nothing in comparison.
There's no winning, there's only enjoying what you've got, for as long as it lasts.

>>46561435
Halfways, anon.
Mortal, and immortal.
These bodies will fall, but that which is our absolute essence shall persist even through great destructions.

>>46560763
>fairy sa-

>>46560763
A Fairy Sage probably wouldn't make sense, Okina is already pretty fairy-esq and we have Larva.
Not to mention how in an animist religion like Shintoism, the difference between a fairy and god is basically how much a person believes they are a god.
Of pre-exsisiting character's, I'd say a Heida, Mima, or Tewi are the only likely Sage candidates.
Heida can er-incarnate, Mima used to be a human and has a grudge against humanity while knowing a lot about the hakurei, and Tewi was already there while also being an ancient, wise(?), generally mysterious character who doesn't have a lot properly elaborated upon with her.

Am I the only one a bit confused at the discussion earlier about Touhou becoming darker? If anything I would've called it the exact opposite. Early (modern) Touhou feels like a far more mysterious and darker world than modern Touhou, where youkai are pretty friendly and there are people activly pushing for such relationships in Gensokyo.

So now it's canon Maribel and Renko definitely mashed muffs. Look at the way Renko is reaching out. That's the pose of a lover, not a friend. I told you so.

>>46560763
Could a human sage exist I wonder

>>46562379
We've already had Merry saying she needs Renko and would go crazy without her. And Renko thinking to herself about wanting to protect Merry. They're already 500% gayer than any of popular pairings among shippers.

>>46562579
>"Tokyo is a spiritual city just like Kyoto, so we'll be able to have a great time.
>Because I'm with you, Merry."
this is the gayest shit I ever seen or saw

>>46562379
Watch as ZUN pulls the rug and it ends up being nothing like with miko and tojiko.
If they do end up being gay then i forgive NTRfags and encourage them to go after renko and maribel and cuck either of them.

>>46562576
Biggest obstacle is lifespan
If a human was a Sage, they would be dead by now, it’s been like 200 years since Gensokyo creation

>>46562631
At a stretch you could call Mokou gay, but her particular thing is so weird that even most lesbians would probably just call it a trauma-induced fetish.

>>46562576
The Hakurei as a whole are probably the closest thing to one, given their importance to Gensokyo and apparent involvement in the creation of the Barrier, but it's pretty obvious that Reimu doesn't know jack shit about anything and is firmly under the thumb of the sages, purposely kept ignorant about her own history and that of her god, to the point where she doesn't even know about its goshintai.

This is how it will end.

>>46562372
The only time early Touhou was truly dark was DiPP. Meanwhile, starting with WaHH, modern Touhou is nothing but grimshit, with few exceptions. Youkai are explicitly less friendly and more malicious now, and positive relations to them are limited to named characters and a few braves.

>>46562786
no, this is

>>46562776
It's also believable that everyone involved was just lazy. Reimu wasn't paying attention in training, and then got the job thrown at her before the age she'd normally be considered ready for it... but she turned out to be so effective just brute-forcing her way through everything that no one saw it as a problem that needed fixing.

Presumably the god-channelling techiniques that Yukari and Yorihime teach Reimu about in Bougetsushou are something that Reimu's mother would have taught her if she were still alive.

>>46562844
>>46562786
Both are correct
Merry and renko will go on to marry different men and make a family

>>46557413
She just needs a human husband to calm her down and turn her into a loving kappa wife

>>46557413
Nitori isn't supposed to be friendly in MoF, she's a sycophant trying to get you to kick out Kanako for her (which Reimu calls her out on). She's a lot less friendly in the Extra Stage when she doesn't want you on the mountain any more.

In SA she engages in trash talk but then freaks out when she finds out Yuugi is on the line, immediately bending over backwards to suck up to her old boss so she doesn't come back.

>>46563257
Her theme is named after a novel that uses kappa society as a satire of capitalism.

>>46562776
>Reimu doesn't know jack shit about anything
Hey she knows about a dead family that worked for the shrine. That's a progress

>>46562576
>>46562687
You could have a "pure human" via time manipulation or an item like Seiran's or Enoko's jewel.
If not a Celestial or a Ghost could also work since they are pretty human in many aspects.
A secluded Hermit that never appears could also explain why she never shows up but I'm not sure if ZUN will add another hermit.

>>46562776
reimu has a practically encyclopaedic knowledge of gods, rituals, festivals, holy days and about esoteric subjects like luck
her own god is one of the few exceptions

Take it easy!

>>46563597
She personally favors Nue, giving her a 10/10 due to being a youkai nerd that's happy to have met such a famous youkai.
I think ZUN highlights the scummy, comedic, and dumb sides of her personality too much
as not seeing her upright, responsible, hardworking, and knowledgeable side makes it contrast less and detracts from the cuteness and comedy of her flaws.

>>46563652
reason number five billion why SSiB and Sangetsusei Reimu is the best one (CoLA gets an honorable mention for being the one who lectures Rinnosuke and Marisa on why she has perfect luck)

>>46560989
>Why some fans want the franchise to continue mindlessly?
I don't think that anon wants as much as just predicting. imo it's hard to tell what ZUN's gonna do for real so who knows.
Would be pretty epic to get a proper ending but on the other hand 2hu is mostly defined like a monster(incident) of the week(year) series,
>>46563652
She knows stuff but has some serious gaps in her knowledge, but I prefer when Reimu seems to know her shit but is pretty easygoing 90% of the time.
>She personally favors Nue, giving her a 10/10 due to being a youkai nerd
She probably would love enemy bestiaries in games.

>>46563810
I love when Reimu has casual displays of skill. WaHH really fucked the perception of her for a while.

>>46563891
Seeing this reminds me the Three Fairies of Light and Kasen figured out the Hakireu Orbs where the Go-Shintai years before Reimu did, And they did it by accident.
Also it's interesting the Go-Shintai didn't attack the fairies like it did Kasen, so I guess the Hakurei God is on good terms with fairies.

This thread seems to have derailed in every way imaginable, have a Merry.

>>46564259
Is because they are not youkai

>>46564340
Guess instead of being a Youkai shrine maiden, Reimu is a fairy shrine maiden.

>>46562372
I mean anon just look what ZUN did with the Misty Lake and tell me leh lake of death is what comes to mind when you play EoSD's stage 2

>>46564501
The implication Cirno kills and eats the lakes Mermaids is funny though.

>>46562776
>Reimu doesn't know jack shit
False. Reimu in every single way, is an extraordinary, actual one of a kind individual
>Have in-depth knowledge about the nature of her luck (CoLA)
>Extremely proficient are sealing and barrier (FS show she have a spell that is capable of unsealing anything)
>Also in FS she displayed high level of spirit summoning, doing it with just her thoughts, no ritual needed
And recently in CDS she knew about the origin of Gensokyo as well, so she is not clueless

>>46563817
>She probably would love enemy bestiaries in games.
Now I want to play a RPG with Reimu and spend 20+ hours autistically cataloging every single enemy.

>>46564516
I wonder how this'll tie into the endgame. Luck/Reality manipulation is an extremely powerful ability, especially for uncovering truths.

Has Renko's hair been becoming more red with each CD or am I being dumb?

>>46564688
I'll be pleasantly shocked if we ever get an "endgame" story.

>>46564965
it has, but ZUN does that with Mamizou and Sumireko too
Mamizou had actual brown hair in TD and it's full on reddish pink in UDoALG

In the first CD the last line is Renko telling them to go to Hakurei Shrine, I wish there was a story about them there

>>46563597
Only when ZUN feels like it, though. She only gets to know stuff when it's convenient for exposition.
Really, she's kind of an infuriating character in how much of her personality and role depends on what ZUN needs for the plot. Are we really supposed to believe that Reimu is all that studious when she's generally so lazy and easygoing, and had to be pushed into training during SSiB? I just don't find it believable for her to know a good deal about gods and ritual while being so indifferent towards her own deity. It's not congruent in the slightest.

Either way, I was mostly talking about her in regards to her role in Gensokyo, where she comes up pretty short. She makes no proactive efforts to even get to know the various peoples, or to maintain her shrine. All she really knows is how to use violence to solve problems, but gladly remains clueless about everything else.
It's almost as bad as Kasen knowing so little despite ostensibly being a sage.
So while you can make arguments in favor of Reimu having (some) knowledge expected with her role as shrine maiden, I think we can at least agree that to the sages, Reimu is exactly in the position they want her to be, and she mostly serves their interests first and foremost. They've effectively enslaved the Hakurei deity, whose youkai exterminating powers are now only used to keep the youkai's paradise intact.

>>46565168
I mean, Reimu is basically a law official, she busts up trouble makers and investigates crimes.
That's her job as the shrine maiden of the hakurei shrine, and she does it. I guess she fails in community out reach, and is poor, but it's not like she's a politician or a stateman.
>They've effectively enslaved the Hakurei deity, whose youkai exterminating powers are now only used to keep the youkai's paradise intact.
I mean he and the Hakurei agreed to help make Gensokyo, it's hard for me to give claims like this any weight when we don't even know what they agreed to or the circumstances.
For all we know his physical body/self could be chilling in the god city inside of Youkai mountain with Misumaru.
Besides, what place does a youkai exterminating god have in a world without youkai, in pretty much every print work where we hear about the Hakurei god it's pointed out he has a pretty narrow area of expertise.
One the modern world wouldn't need.
You can't kill youkai if they're all extinct afterall.

>>46565168
Trust me, its definitely possible to be intelligent and powerful while being laid back/lazy.

>>46565227
I suspect that the Hakurei god did not expect to be almost forgotten and his shrine swarmed by youkai that were defeated in a playfight with his power when he first agreed to anything, assuming he ever had any say in the matter.
Given what happened to Mizuchi, there was probably something fucked going on when modern Gensokyo was established, and with how little influence the Hakurei have left, I doubt her predecessors really won in that deal. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought it'd benefit them much more greatly before being stabbed in the back by Yukari and/or Okina, shifting power even more towards the youkai.
Even Kasen, who ostensibly is the most directly supportive of Reimu and humanity (or at least views herself as such), refused to share the knowledge about the goshintai she'd just uncovered, so I really don't think any of them want Reimu to learn anything about her own fucking god.
>>46565299
I'd buy that if the yooks weren't usually running circles around Reimu. Like, she beat Okina because Yukari told her how, but didn't actually understand any of it. She was barely above Cirno's level there.
If she was actually intelligent, she would at least understand the things people throw at her.

At least she's cute, I guess.

>>46565342
To be fair to Reimu, the backdoor stuff IS extremely complex and not immediately understood. I don't believe Reimu was coached in that moment by Yukari when returning to Okina for a rematch, so she was working off of old knowledge AFAIK, which isn't a bad thing. Aya is the most impressive character in HSiFS by far due to her courage and collecting energy from between the seasons on her own (And then recognizing that that too was a trap by Okina).

>>46565393
Nah, Reimu definitely didn't think of it by herself. Only Aya and Marisa came up with the idea to use doyou on their own.
Reimu's only actual feat is realizing that Okina was bullshitting about her actual motive, which makes her somewhat of a decent judge of character.
Sometimes.
Whenever it's not inconvenient to the plot for her to realize that the person in front of her is a youkai, at least.

>>46560763
Sounds more like a youkai of questionable former humanity, a youkai pretending to be a hermit, and a youkai who deluded herself into thinking she's a god, to me. It's just youkai all the way down.

>>46564965
Renko represents the infrared end of the spectrum as opposed to Yukari and Merry's ultraviolet. It's possible that the change represents a slight blueshift into the pure red spectrum as she gets more exposed to magic.

>>46564501
Well you can see the water textures borders in it just like in Silent Hill 2 (shitty HD ver.) so I guess there's a connection.
>>46564510
Actually yes, would be nice to see a fanart of that.
>>46565425
I thought that the ending was just Aun telling the 'mu she had a backdoor and that she went back to it in the ending and that this Okina was just pointing how Reimu and Yukari have "kind" of the same powers, but I might be misremembering shit.

>>46565558
Here found one.

>>46565614
is.......is she ok?

>>46565558
yeah, Aunn says that Reimu will win in the end, Reimu is annoyed and realises that she needs to go and do something about all the backdoors scattered over the place, Aunn points out that Reimu has a door on her back, and Reimu decides to go back in, and the ending ends with
>But instead of equipping a sub-season...
Implying that Reimu did come up with the idea herself.
Also, Okina pointing out that Reimu and Yukari have the same sort of powers using borders shouldn't suprise anyone, because Reimu has always been able to use gaps of a sort. They're one of her basic moves in the fighting games, they're (presumably) how she accomplishes the movements she does in her IN boss fight, and she even uses them in FS

>>46565678
She's about to be fairy food.

>>46565614
Nice catch!
>>46565686
>movements she does in her IN boss fight
Yeah, always wondered how stuff like that would look like in first person/3d especially considering how in Marisa's grimoire she talks about being surrounded by countless copies, must be pretty trippy.
Hope we'll get some sort of Yukari-Reimu and Merry-Renko power relation explanation in the next cd, since they seem kinda parallel.

>>46565976
Grimoire of Marisa was really cool for stuff like that. Grimoire of Usami was alright, but since it was a fireworks show, there was less focus on each card like Marisa writing about how she asked Reimu how she does a certain thing or how to clear the card

>>46558023
Reminds me of how Kanako knows Sagume, although at least with Kanako we know that since she's Takeminakata she fought Takemikazuchi and thus the heavenly gods in the past, which explains why she knows Sagume, but now how or the circumstances of them meeting.
Although it's worth noting until LoLK Kanko never knew Lunarians were the Heavenly Gods, so it's unlikely she's talked to Tewi and might not even know about her Daikoku's sealing.

>>46564688
>Luck/Reality manipulation is an extremely powerful ability
Not really, from what Reimu said in CoLA, her power is not to manipulate luck, but “feel it”
When she throw a dice, she can feel its “soul” (aka the history in it up to that point) and instinctively know how she should throw it to get whatever side she want
Reminder, this is still not a conscious ability, but instinctual one, basically Ultra Instinct. Reimu intuition will always lead her to the best course of action

>>46567335
>but “feel it”
Huh, how interesting. Guess that makes sense.
Will Reimu be able to beat the US military then?

>>46568221
She wouldn’t get into a situation where she have to fight them in the first place. Since she always ended up on the path of least resistance
Rinnosuke personally observed Reimu “fighting” Marisa and his impression was that Reimu did not fight at all, she always happened to stand on just the right spot to dodge Marisa attack somehow

>>46553513
I don't know why, but I actually expect it to be good, it would be about time ZUN turned the franchise around

This had been a good thread, hoping every anon here has a good day.

>>46571077
Cheers!