/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>46495159
Why does SSIB Ran look like she's built for baby making and birthing?

All those hypnosis R18 doujins? Canon.

>>46495159
I wish we would get more things on Tewi, we've only really gotten a good look at her in the first chapter of CiLR, and a bit in Reimu's ending of LoLK, but she seems pretty interesting.

>>46495303
No because a woman is clearly performing the hypnosis here, not a man with a hard on. It is it's own thing really.

>>46495337
Bold of you to assume a goddess like Kanako doesn't have a hard-on.

how many men have kasen fucked?

>>46495355
More than you can imagine.

>>46495382
What is that, a picture for ants?

>>46495386
Goddamn bro cant even click on an image. Pretty easy to see even for non ants.

>>46495382
Why is the wild and horny hermit like this?

>>46495329
She also appear in WaHH with a plan to raise the total rabbit youkai population if I remember correctly

>>46495253
Dame Ran has an amazing body.

>>46495159
youkai women steal away virginities of human village shotas because they're full of lifeforce and their semen grants them a lot of energy

>>46495538
Source?

>>46495572
1_(kawaseha)

>>46495329
Makes me wonder what happened to daikoku sama, maybe tewi really misses him?

>>46495538
Yuyuko is a Ghost though and Yukari is most likely a collage dropout LARPing as a Youkai

>>46495538
Where was this reveled? Manga? Print Work? Game?

>>46495474
Yeah that was nice, I can at least count myself lucky ZUN hasn't completely forgotten Tewi given that she appeared in LoLK.
Although her CDS appearance was just a 1 page cameo, probably because alongside Tenshi and Kasen she's one of the characters that could break the story and deal with Mizuchi pretty easily.
It's also noted that she can avoid Reisen's detection, something not even Koishi can do easily.

>>46495606
The Lunarians got to him, probably why Tewi is plotting against them.

>>46495538
Not canon.

Gensokyo is sexless.

>>46495908
>We haven't seen graphic penetration, so it must not exist!
Stop pushing this shit.

>>46495917
>Characters with canon love interests:
0.

>Characters displaying interest in sex.
0

Accept it.

>>46495936

>>46495960
>This counts as a character displaying interest in sex.
If anything, this just serves to highlight how sexless Gensokyo is.

>>46496086
The only people having sex in gensokyo are the villagers, the youkai are pent up but don't want to disrupt the fragile order of gensokyo.

>>46495538
2hus rapes shotas with their big futacocks.

From what I am reading, this is and will be everything except canon.

>>46496160
That's because, much like youkai keep checks and balances on each other's influence over the human village, the same is true of Gensokyo's scarcest commodity: Men. Ultimately, it's the factor that gives the Sages so much power, since they can bring in men from the Outside World whenever they want.

>>46496160
>The only people having sex in gensokyo are the villagers
Yes, and we can only assume that because there isn't any evidence indicating they reproduce assexually
.

>>46496160

>>46495253
I love this blue-screening fox, she's at her limit in comprehending Yukari's bullshit lunacy and moon logic. Would fill with thermal paste and practice multiplication with her. I hope we see more of her now that ZUN remembered she exists as a character. Her doing debugging work for Yacchi and trolling Sumireko over spirit internet alongside her inner dialogue and thoughts was cool to see.
>>46495908
Riddle me this faggot. If nobody has sex then how come we see 10gu eggs and children? Check and mate with Tengu.

>>46495303
This also implies Kanako could sissy hypno /jp/ers.... just joking!! haha..

>>46497348
Well... what's the treasure?

>>46495159
canon miko rump

>>46499573
malnourished my ass!

>>46496474
Well that was to be exacted considering most of the fanbase hasn't played the games nor read any of the official print works

>>46497348
Was that a letter from the leader of the Tengu? If so he's sounds a lot nicer then I exacted

>>46499573
God she really is built for hours of tender but firm tantric sex

>>46498624
A hammer to break open the egg, they ate Orin's child.

>>46499640
It's a formality thing, the Tengu are all about their rigid hierarchy and sticking to tradition.

>>46495159
Did Tokiame ever draw a 2hu manga before?

>>46498452
>I love this blue-screening fox, she's at her limit in comprehending Yukari's bullshit lunacy and moon logic.
I LOVE it when zun reduces characters to being confused retarded 4koma tier retards, especially when the character in question is suppose to be smart. Let's just hope he doesn't shit on her again (he will, especially given his heavy Mamizou bias)
>Her doing debugging work for Yacchi and trolling Sumireko over spirit internet alongside her inner dialogue and thoughts was cool to see.
I suppose so.

>>46499573
You can tell she could go *PLAP PLAP PLAP*

Which youkais or other beings do you want to see in the next touhou canon?

>>46505257
I want to see the other two great terrors of Japan. Especially now that Tamamo is free.

>>46505257
I know Touhou is more of a Mountain Japan thing and IIRC Gensokyo is not connected to the seas, but Japan has such a super cool mythology around various undersea creatures that I would really love to see some of that featured.

>>46505298
Fuck it, Misty lake is now bottomless. Krakenhu lives there with Waggy.

>>46505298
Tell us about some anon, I'm completly in the unknown when it comes to Japanese sea monsters besides... y'know....

>>46505298
The Sanzu is said to exist both in and out of Gensokyo, so maybe the Krakenhu swims in from there and causes an incident where Komachi can't do her job.

>>46505257
The fourth Deva of the mountain
At least one girl from each caste of tengu we haven't seen yet (long-nosed and Yamabushi)
Also we've seen too many of the Animal Realms, so maybe youkai from different Hells.

>>46505257
I want Tenma and the other top Tengu Chiefs to show up someday.

>>46505257
Takeminakata is he isn't Kanako and the other Sun gods, there's this one doujin where yata takes over Okuu because he's mad about his brothers getting killed and now I'm interested about the other dead Sun gods.

>>46505167
Don't be fretful, Ran got an appearance as a main character in TH19 and Miko is the newest bitch to the Tanuki.
Let's hope the future is bright for out robo-fox!

>>46499588
Those dirt are fertile

>>46505257
Did we ever get Otakemaru?

>>46505257
Oh man, I have LOTS of character that expect to show up.
>Oni
Ura (温羅).
Otakemaru (大嶽丸).
Goki (前鬼) and Zenki (後鬼).
Kidoumaru (鬼童丸).
The rest of the mountain devas like Torakuma-douji (虎熊童子), Kanekuma-douji (金熊童子), and Kuma-douji (熊童子).
The rest of Kishin Chiefs like Kinki (金鬼), Fuuki (風鬼), and Ongyoki (隠形鬼) since Suiki (水鬼) is already mentioned.

>Kappa
Suiko (水虎), basically the kappa equivalent of Great Tengu.
Garappa (ガラッパ), basically the leaner and more slender version of kappa.
Takiwaro (崖童).
Enko (猿猴).

>Tengu
Kurama Tengu (鞍馬天狗)/Sōjōbō (僧正坊)/Kiichi Hōgen (鬼一法眼), the Great Tengu who teached Yoshitsune swordsmanship.
Atago Gongen (愛宕権現)/Tarōbō (太郎坊).
Sarutahiko (猿田毘古), technically a deity, but I'd like to think that he is the ancestor of the Tengus.

>Gods/Deities
Futsunushi (経津主)
Takemikazuchi (建御雷)
Yahata/Hachiman (八幡)
Haraedo Okami (祓戸大神)
Yato no kami (夜刀の神)
Kaya no hime (草祖草野)

>Others
Gozu (牛頭) and Mezu (馬頭), the wardens of hell and Yama's personal guards.
En no Ozuno (役小角), the founder of Shugendo.
Yasunori Kato (加藤保憲) from Teito Monogatari.
Three Great Vengeful Ghost: Sugawara Michizane (菅原道真), Taira Masakado (平将門), and Emperor Sutoku (崇徳天皇)
Nurarihyon (滑瓢)
Ryomen Sukuna (両面宿儺), before you sperging out about JJK, it's a real being that is recorded on Nihon Shoki.
Onmyouji-related personalities like Abe no Seimei (安倍晴明), Ashiya Douman (蘆屋道満), Kamo no Yasunori (賀茂保憲), and Kibi no Makibi (吉備真備).
Goho Douji (護法童子), spirit guardians of buddhism.
Himiko (卑弥呼)
Housoushi (方相氏)
Inugami (犬神)

>>46505257
Give us the guy (who of course will be a girl here) who cut Suika's head off

>>46508674
>Goki (前鬼) and Zenki (後鬼).
Technically they're in, but they're Yukari's crows and in one of Ran's spellcards.
The three vengeful ghosts and Onmyouji related people could be cool. The way I visualize how they would appear in Touhou is how they are done in fangames if they appear.
Makai is also another place I'd like to seen explored more on, it was just flyover territory in UFO. It's cheap, but I want to see some more PC-98 characters in, and with how MoF was about Shinto, UFO was Buddhism, and TD was Taosim, a game on christianity/psuedo-christianity could be good grounds for Makai and the angel & demon characters. Maybe Patche get a chip in if Koakuma is tangentially related.
In my opinion Gensokyo is looking pretty full in terms of big set-piece locations, the outer realms and hells could do with some exploration unless there's deeper looks into the nooks and crannies like wherever the Tengu are living.

>>46508674
>Takemikazuchi (建御雷)
Actually has 1(one) singular reference made to him in Strange Creators of the Outer World, Touhou's official magazine in the 4th Volume under Mouhtain of Faith's second Fragment of Phantasy segment.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Introduction_of_Previous_Works/Mountain_of_Faith/Fragment_of_Phantasy_2
But only in reference to his brother Takeminakata, but given that the Lunarians were sealed lord Daikoku in Touhou, Takemikazuchi was/is probably a Lunarian given that he would be convincing his father to surrender to a faction that would immediately betray Lord Daikoku's trust and seal him.

>>46508834
>Technically they're in, but they're Yukari's crows and in one of Ran's spellcards.
I just also realized that En no Ozuno is also mentioned in one of Ran's spellcards on StB.

>>46505257
From videos on interviews with ZUN, I have seen that he seems to have a lot of books about Japanese mythology, imagining he has read them all, I want to know. Why he only adds a few and not adds more like crazy (But taking time to make the designs)?

>>46508904
So the Amatsukami are lunarians and the Kunitsukami are native gods?

>>46505635
I sadly don't remember the names because it's been so long since I read up about it but they had myths of entire underwater kingdoms with dragons and all that.

>>46514224
NTA but they literally mean "Heavenly Kami" and "Earthly Kami," so yes. Aside from Ryugojo, all evidence points to the Lunar Capital also being Takamagahara and possibly Chinese Myth's Jade Palace, and that's all before getting into the Heaven connection.

>>46514224
Yeah, it's mentioned in the Fragment of Phantasy for Imperishable Night.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Introduction_of_Previous_Works/Imperishable_Night/Fragment_of_Phantasy
Of course most of the time ZUN uses terms like indigenous god for Suwako, probably because she's from a folk religion and the whole god divide isn't that important for the players most of the time.
There are also the Takamagahara who have some overlap from both, but existed since the creation of heaven and earth.
Although I would note not all Amatsukami or heavenly Kami are Lunarian, as they first came from Heaven, took over earth. Then with lost interest and disgusted with the earth's impurity created their own Heaven on the moon, so Celestials and Lunarians could be said to be the same species.
Also for Junko, it's super unclear as we don't have Fragments of Phantasy for Touhou 15 to Touhou 18, but going from Reimu's comment in her LoLK ending I think she's a Takamagahara and a Amatsukami, or a Heavenly Kami who existed since Heaven was created.
The Fragment of Phantasy for Touhou 19 is still untranslated, but apparently it exists.

>>46515595
Where should we draw the line between Kunitsukami and Amatsukami if we look at pic rel? Misumaru, Keiki, and Eika could be counted as Amatsukami since they were "born" from Izanagi.
>Celestials and Lunarians could be said to be the same species.
Same heavenly being but from different religion, Lunarians or Amatsukami for Shinto and Celestials or Deva for buddhism.
>Also for Junko, it's super unclear as we don't have Fragments of Phantasy for Touhou 15 to Touhou 18, but going from Reimu's comment in her LoLK ending I think she's a Takamagahara and a Amatsukami, or a Heavenly Kami who existed since Heaven was created.
She could be one of the chinese xian.

>>46515595
It's kinda weird that he lists Toyohime and Yorihime as Amatsu, given that they're the daughters of a water deity who I believe is generally considered Kunitsu. It's their husbands who descend from Amaterasu and have definite Amatsu heritage. I would've just made them Lunarians only through marriage.
Though that still has numerous issues such as how Toyotamahime fled home after Hoori saw her true form and wouldn't be with any of the Amatsu, but I guess that and other issues are to be expected when you filter half of Japanese mythology through the lens of Kaguyahime.

And I don't think Junko was a god at all. Her ability explicitly allows normal things to return to their original divine nature through purification, and she used it extensively on herself, so that's probably how she became akin to divinity.

>>46515729
I'm not sure were the cutoff would be exactly, but I don't see a reason why Misumaru, Eika, or Keiki would be excluded, Keiki moved to hell so she did come from somewhere.
>She could be one of the chinese xian.
Maybe, I don't know as much about chinese mythology, and of course ZUN is still holding out on us.

>>46515941
Mixing mythologies gets messy, if you wanna bring in Buddhism than Tewi is a previous incarnation/is the Buddha. Although she is probably a god of some sort.
ZUN has picked and chose somewhat, like how Tojiko isn't actually Miko's wife and Futo isn't her mom despite that being the funnier combination of relations.
>And I don't think Junko was a god at all. Her ability explicitly allows normal things to return to their original divine nature through purification, and she used it extensively on herself, so that's probably how she became akin to divinity.
In Reimu's LoLK ending Reimu calls Junko a more pure spirit, a divine soul, so yeah she's a god.

>>46516055
Reimu talks about how Junko is now, but I was thinking more about what she was before Hou Yi murdered their son.
We know that Junko is obviously a very different person from what she was before, and that she's one of the few people who has a power that could outright make her a god, which is why I choose to believe that she was originally human, and only joined the ranks of the Divine Spirits afterwards, and even then, she's probably still kind of an outlier, such as not having to rely on faith to persist and whatnot.

>>46516403
Well considering that several gods, including Eirin persist without faith, I'd say people born as gods don't need to use faith as a power source.
Of course Suwako kind of contradicts that, but I imagine that unlike Eirin she cam after the creation of the earth, being a product of human faith or at least granted an identity by it.
But yeah, considering humans can become celestial, and Junko being a called divine hermit, which screams "knock-off celestial" I think she could've been a former human, although her husband would probably still be a god then.

>>46496760
This makes a lot of sense, especially knowing that Yukari will keep the ones she finds personally interesting.

>>46497348
At the very least that chapters settles that Youkai of all kinds are known to produce sexually, and that Chen will lay an egg when she gives birth...
Will it be a litter of eggs or just one big one like that? Imagine...

>>46516866
>>46516403
Some lunarians are gods, but they're also kind of their own unique race of non-humans in touhou canon right?
They can exist outside the barrier just fine and go to war with humans just fine. They're more akin to the Yama and Celestials in that they're more of a force of creation rather then dependent on humanity affecting the mental layer.

>>46508674
>Onmyouji-related personalities like Abe no Seimei (安倍晴明), Ashiya Douman (蘆屋道満), Kamo no Yasunori (賀茂保憲), and Kibi no Makibi (吉備真備).
It's weird that for a game with a mythological and supernatural theme as the main core, the presence of onmyouji is nonexistent in touhou (though onmyoudo is main wielded by the Yakumos, and there's the Taoists from Miko's faction). Usually, they are at the forefront of japanese magic and mystical combat. Perhaps onmyoji is a profession tied heavily to men? Most of the onmyou works usually depict onmyouji as bishounens.

>>46505257
I just want to see the other two terrors of Japan show up.

>>46517379
NTA, but makes sense to me. I wouldn't say ZUN wouldn't just gender swap one and call it a day, but he already has Marisa, his favorite, and plenty of other mages. At this point I don't doubt that his choice not to include any Onmyoudo comes from his gradual nihilism/cynicism in his older age, he's not really looking for new human protags in his current works. I think it's much more likely we'd see a Tamamo or some really obscure chinese youkai before we see another human he'd bother making, much less fleshing out.

>>46516866
Omoikane is a pretty famous figure, so Eirin would probably still get enough faith to get by regardless.
Plus, the Lunarians may have been able to set something up that alleviates their need to obtain faith directly, given their supposed spiritual strength. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sapping faith from the bound Okuninushi, for example.
And there's no telling how the Hourai Elixir affects it.

Speaking of Celestials, Eirin is definitely not older than the Earth. In Reisen's SWR ending, she mentions how the creation of Heaven by pulling out a great keystone from the Earth (which incidentally killed all life on Earth at the time) is something that happened so long ago that even she wasn't around to witness it. We don't really know how she and the other Amatsu came about in Touhou's mythology, but since the Celestials were already present, they might've been the ones to spawn them somehow. It's hard to say how they all relate to each other given that ZUN doesn't care enough to actually explore the Celestials in any meaningful depth.

>>46517232
It's not really clear how they're supposed to work. All we know is that they used to live on Earth before fleeing to the Moon to avoid impurity, at some point took control of Japan and sealed the then-reigning gods that were a threat to them, and some, but not all of them are deities.
I imagine the Lunarians who aren't gods are basically just humans with less impurity in them, not meaningfully different enough to consider them a separate race.

>>46517519
The way they're designed is antithetical to classic Onmyoudo. Marisa is an western themed eastern witch, Patchouli is an eastern themed western magician. Patche already has wuxing/feng shui style chinese magic, she's already defined. Conversely there's room for Onmyoudo in Youkai characters. Ran is a good candidate for this since her "ability" is controlling Shikigami which is Onmyoudo; as she has nothing else really contesting it there's room for expansion.

>>46517855
I forgot about that line, but Eirin 100% predates humanity, I remember that being true.
I imagine faith is just one source of power Gods can draw from, and besides the earth in touhou is 100% older than the advent of humanity and the fact that some gods are as old as the earth and heavens means they predate humanity as well.
Eirin may be younger than the earth, but she's still older than any human.

>>46518053
Considering ZUN turned a throw away line into a crucial piece of Ran's lore I don't doubt he's spoiled for choice, although we're probably more likely to get more animal realm stuff first.

>>46515595
If one could be pedantinc about it, Fragment of Phantasy isn't written by ZUN, and I'm not sure whatever he oversees it or not, so their meaning of native could be different to ZUN's.
Maybe to ZUN it's something as simple as native meaning worshipped before and has a story different from the uh... I forgot the exact term for it but the uh... centrification? unification? the main myth as mentioned by ZUN in Suwako's Who's who.
> In the past, plenty of other places had as much power and influence as the Yamato, but afterward history was written by the Yamato Court so the myths became like they are now. But in shrines here and there, there are still stories that don't match up with the main myth, so that's interesting.

>>46518625
I'm aware, but given as ZUN is the same type of person to jump on something being non-canon like when he was role playing in that RPG. So presumably he oversees it, the one issue that there wasn't a fragment of Phantasy is probably the only one where he didn't oversee anything as I don't really see him being the sort that would allow something contradicting canon to be printed in the magazines unless it was a deliberate retcon, also some of the statements do seem to be authoritative, which would be weird if they weren't from ZUN.
I think Native or Indgious god is just something ZUN prefers to use with Suwako as the other term is a bit too broad, and also Suwako is mainly a folk religion character, not really an earthly god versus lunarian character.
Despite him complaining about "Touhou police"

>>46517379
Yeah, it's quite interesting how absent they are in Touhou. Certainly not canon, but it's funny to think that perhaps the Onmyodo knew THE TRUTH about Gensokyo and decided that there's no way they are getting involved with it all.

>>46518852
soon

>>46518826
it's really funny every time ZUN sees something that he doesn't think is canon in the TTRPG session, because he always points it out in the most confused way possible like he doesn't understand how people didn't know that even when it's like a one off line in a WaHH chapter

>GM: More or less (laugh). But for starters, let's see what the dice have to offer us. (rolling) 46, which means "Primsriver >Ensemble 2.0 Announces Guerrilla Concert!"
>Reimu: Doesn't have much to do with the incident, does it? (laugh)
>GM: At the end of the Noon cycle, all PCs are allowed to move to…(rolling) spot 46, and whoever does gets 1 extra Motivation!
>Cirno: Whoaaa!
>GM: By the way, spot 46 would be —
>Aya: …It's the "Palace of the Earth Spirits".
>Reimu: They're gonna play a concert there…? (laugh)
>GM: Seems so… (laugh) Maybe they were invited?
>Reimu: Seriously? This really isn't the Gensokyo I know. (laugh)

>Reimu: "Why's the fairy in the Human Village…?"
>Cirno: "I am the ice fairy who does not overlook the smallest detail! I even beat a cat at >hide-and-seek!"
>Reimu: "What? There was a cat as well? That's not good." (laugh)
>GM: It's not? (laugh)
>Reimu: It's not (laugh). Only humans are allowed in the Human Village. Probably better if we drove 'em out…

>Reimu: Oh, Sanae was drinking as well?
>GM: Would she not?
>Reimu: Well, she doesn't like alcohol, after all.
>GM: Ah, now that you mention it… Well then, she didn't have any… and just hung around, I guess. (laugh)
>Reimu: I see. (laugh)

Anyone find it funny that we have so little information about Heaven and yet have so much information about Hell?

>>46518908
I laughed at Reimu wanting to atomize a cat on sight.

>>46518924
cause there really isn't much to talk about or add, it's just a fluffy cloud realm where celestials eat peaches and enjoy a good life, bla bla bla, meanwhile the hells are an infinite realm where a lot of shit is going on, and their leader is apparently stronger than anything heaven or even the lunar capital have to offer.

>>46518940
Yeah... Touhou happens to be one of those universes where the Hell realm is actually stronger than the Heaven realm, I guess.
It makes sense considering that even the main land where most of the series takes place is filled with suffering (mostly on the humans' part)

>>46518940
Also the people in heaven are hogging the place for themselves so I'm guessing it's not even that specious

>>46518940
>Hell is stronger than the most technologically advanced civilization in the universe
So I guess Zun believes that raw infernal power > futuristic technology

>>46518985
It's more like one, Hot Topic American > futuristic technology

>>46518940
Heaven did get the short end of the stick with the Dragon Palace being moved to the Lunar Capital. But otherwise it's a fluffy realm free of conflict, and places with no conflict or issues aren't that interesting, you can fill in the blanks yourself. Heaven by itself is uninteresting, but how it interacts with the rest of the cosmology and the politics of it all is where the meat is.
There could be something if the issue on Heaven closing their gates was expanded upon and pressed, could give Tenshi a protagonist role for a bit to cause some trouble, and would involve Eiki and the other afterlife zones.
>>46518964
Space requirements are kinda nebulous, the Netherworld could just be expanded if it got too full so how any of this works is anyone's guess. Yukari says: "The heavens use the lands too luxuriously. They say the heavens is too saturated so nirvana is forbidden... What a big lie. They just hate small spaces, that's all... The celestials being people who left their worldliness behind is also a big lie. Heaven is, in fact, the hive for these sly people"
On a side note, Yukari referring to what she wants to do to Tenshi as "I'm going to make her become deceased for a bit" is a powerful line.
>>46518955
>>46518985
In typical Buddhism the Hells aren't the eternal damnation that we think of in the Christian sense. They're meant to be soul recyclers and reformers, while Heaven/Nirvana is supposed to be the last stop. Heaven is release from eternal suffering (life) and release from the constant rebirth cycle of Samsara. So them being stronger makes sense when you consider the whole, and Hecatia oversees multiple Hells for different realms. You commit sins and accumulate bad Karma which must be worked off in whichever flavor of Hell is most appropriate for your sins, after that you reincarnate and live your next life hopefully more virtuously; rinse and repeat however many times until you make it. Heaven being blocked off and the Animal Realm having disruptions with Human Spirits is a pretty big deal and probably a huge headache for Eiki and her ever shrinking budget. That the Hells have a budget and needs fundraising in the first place is some ironic comedy.

>>46518940
>their leader is apparently stronger than anything heaven
>>46518955
>the Hell realm is actually stronger than the Heaven realm
There's no evidence for this, we don't even know who the Goddess of Heaven is and whatnot, Tenshi is literally the only inhabitant of Heaven we ever interact with, Iku mentions that there are angels in there aswell during the game dialogue of Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, we just never get to see them.

>>46518940
I don't remember ZUN ever saying anything about how Hecatia compares to Heaven, just Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital.
Given that Tenshi, a shitty brat who was only elevated to Celestialhood because her entire family was rewarded, is still immensely powerful and knowledgeable, we can only guess at how capable the real high-level Celestials are.

>>46519054
while ZUN's retconning habits typically annoy me, if there's one thing I'm always hoping he'll retcon, it's making the dragon palace its own thing instead of just being the lunar capital. Just felt like it made the world smaller for no real benefit since he didn't even do anything with it

>>46519054
>Heaven did get the short end of the stick with the Dragon Palace being moved to the Lunar Capital
The Dragon Palace is also in Heaven, somehow, I imagine it's like Eientei.
ZUN says there are connects if you look for them but Heaven doesn't seem to be the moon, so I think the palace itself is just weird.

>>46519054
>>46519081
Also don't forget that Heaven and the Lunar Capital blatantly have connections with each other although the full extent of it aren't known, they are both said to be "pure" realms devoid of impurity and death, they both have somewhat snobbish inhabitants that look down upon earth dwellers, they both enjoy peaches, and Iku is actually a messenger from the Moon (dragon palace is the same as the lunar capital iirc)

Celestials and Lunarians definitely have a relationship, but what kind of relationship, we cannot know.

>>46518924
I think it's funnier that Hell keeps being described as infinite (with several levels of different Hell to boot) and Heaven is like "we're full get out".

>>46518985
To be fair, a place where the bar for "you must be this strong to survive this place" keeps getting raised would definitely beat any technological achievements made somewhere relatively peaceful.

So legitimate question here, but is Tenshi a Lunarian? Considering it's been i.pled celestial are lunarians, is tenshi a moonie?

>>46519054
>with the Dragon Palace being moved to the Lunar Capital
I don't buy any of that.
The first mention of the Dragon Palace clearly makes it out as a lie Toyohime feeds Urashimako, and there's no further mention of it ever being on the Moon, other than a one-off sentence in an interview in SoPM.
But since it makes so little sense, given the Lunar Capital's isolation and Iku clearly associating with Heaven but not the Lunar Capital (who wouldn't give a shit about warning humans), I'm inclined to believe it's just a mistake on ZUN's part, and the Palace is still either somewhere under the sea or near Heaven.

>>46519089
Lunarians are just Chinese Discount Celestials who couldn't even make their own world and had to flee to the Moon, instead. Probably stole their peaches, too.
The moonies are explicitly out-pured by the inhabitants of the Netherworld, and the Celestials are probably similarly pure, especially since they're anti-youkai, who are the embodiment of impurity, and don't fear Earth at all. The Lunarians, who are so terrified of impurity that Junko powering up a bunch of fairies left them completely unable to act, just don't measure up. They're just a bunch of fakers.
Both groups are cunts, of course.

>>46519144
Yeah, it's kinda true that the difference between Celestials and Lunarians is that the former actually put hard-work into conquering impurity from scratch, while the latter relied on quantum knowledge to "cheat" their way out of impurity and gain cheap access to agelessness.
Celestials also apparently can stay pure wherever they go while Lunarians explicitly must stay in pure areas at all costs.

>>46519089
The Netherworld is also a pure realm, Yuyuko and Youmu never got harassed and spent a whole month fucking around on the Moon.
They probably have a fairly close relationship considering that several Lunarians are original deities and the very top hierarchy of them. Lord Tsukuyomi founded the Lunar Capital and is the brother to Amaterasu. "The residents of the Lunar Capital are closer to celestials and hermits than humans." Celestials are a also type of Hermit.
>>46519106
ZUN did state in that same interview that there are many connections between the various places. Heaven and the LC might be figuratively next door to each other in the cosmological sense, they're both pure lands and the Lunar Capital was likened to being similar to a Hermit's residence. And the Japanese love their Side A Side B shit, so the Dragon Palace could be in both places at once like how the Hakurei Shrine has a Gensokyo and Outside world counterpart. Probably not worth thinking too hard about as where's and hows are all muddied by metaphysical mumbo jumbo and funny boundaries.

>>46518852
I bet Onmyou bureau are still exists as government's clandestine organization and observes Gensokyo from afar.

>>46519155
There are ways around it, I believe Kaguya can utilize her ability to turn every place she's in into an Eternal one thus making it pure.

I wonder how "pure" the folks at Eientei still are

>>46521050
It kinda doesn't work in canon, but the idea that the Outside world has a thriving if hidden supernatural community is funny to me, because that means Gensokyo is completely unnecessary and Yukari was in full panic mode when she came up with the barrier plan.

>>46521452
>but the idea that the Outside world has a thriving if hidden supernatural community is funny to me
Something like Dark Realm from Raidou Kuzunoha series should be sufficient.
https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Realm
>The Dark Realm is almost indistinguishable from the Capital's "real" dimension except for the different lighting and the fact there are no humans on its streets: most of the Dark Realm's inhabitants are demons of several sorts, depending on the area.
I played the game and interacted with non-hostile demons on the Dark Realm, which was kind of hilarious for me. There is a Gashadokuro youkai, complete with a huge, menacing skeleton body but with the default personality of a typical housewife.

>>46495159
Why does Kaguya look to annoyed there?

>>46522050
no fisherman to fuck

>>46519144
So Tenko > 'Guya?

>>46521452
>Thriving supernatural community
>>46508674
>Ryomen Sukuna (両面宿儺)
>Thriving supernatural community, created by an ancient hag behind a barrier.
>Secret society run by sages.
Hmmm, I wonder how these two shitty Buddhists would interact.

>>46519094
Well it's not like heaven is that grim, heaven is probably supposed to be one of the Deva realms since the celestials are Deva, Celestial is just a mistranslation that got popular like Flandre instead of Frondol.
And it's not like the Deva realms are free of corruption, they're just higher up the chain and closer to getting to Nirvana than humans are.
So I still think there's tons of room to explore there, with possible other heaven realms for the other types of "celestial" and a confirmation of an actual actual Nirvana.

>>46522653
She's a Lunarian, unless that fisherman is closely related to her by blood in someway, she's not interested

>>46506469
>Don't be fretful, Ran got an appearance as a main character in TH19 and Miko is the newest bitch to the Tanuki. Let's hope the future is bright for out robo-fox!
I'm too cynical for that, i always keep my expectations low so i'm never disappointed but you do raise good points.

Is Nitori still straight up dead? This is the last we see of her in CDS, she does show up in Black Market which came out a month later, but the chapter that came out after black market says the kappa are still in mourning. I don't think Nitori gets any mention in CDS after that.
I guess even kappas will drown...

>>46528258
I wish the Kappa could stay mourning like this forever.

>>46528320

>>46528258
I seriously can't believe that Nitori is fucking dead! How?

>>46528391
she slipped on a cucumber, it was a tragic accident

>>46528258
>>46528391

>>46528447
holy fuck those fairies are HUGE

>>46528472
Almost like it's some kind of... daiyousei...

>>46528447
It's rather cute that the fairies are emulating Sakuya in dressing conservatively this time around, with a skirt that flows down all the way to their ankles.
They usually wear a short skirt which bears their legs like Sakuya does.

>>46528447
I miss gin fragrans. Wonder how much she would've improved had she kept at it.

>>46528681
well for one, Mizuchi's first name would make more sense as a pun for the actual water dragon. back when she was using water to possess characters

>>46522851
Of course

>>46528258
Finally, the Kappas get humbled after the bullshittery they did in FS. I hope this will happen soon to Mamizou and her tanuki horde too.

>>46522851
No because 'Guya is actually genuinely immortal, she cannot die no matter what happens. Tenshi and the celestials will eventually die without faith or their homeland after the sun inevitably expands to swallow the earth, Kaguya will outlive the sun and it's consequences regardless of what actually occurs.

>>46529344
Ran will put her in her place and settle the Tanuki-Kitsune arguments once and for all.

>>46529525
>Ran
She's too busy frolicking with Yuuma and recently, Yachie. Tsukasa will be the one since she's more vicious than Ran.

>>46529525
>Ran will put her in her place and settle the Tanuki-Kitsune arguments once and for all.
Gods I wish...Should be Ran just beating the shit out of her effortlessly and outsmarting her.

>>46529525
I have a feeling Ran wouldn't really care about Mamizou, although I think Mamizou might be annoyed with how submissive and loyal Ran is.
Ran also doesn't seem to care much for youkai as a while like Mamizou does, so I guess that could also be a point of contention.

>>46529363
Considering the celestials predate humans I don't think they are reliant, although yes, while close to immortal, Celestials/Devas and gods are in reality just very long lived.

>>46531493
>submissive and loyal Ran is.
She has a rebellious streak and wont listen if she's motivated enough not to.She also hid information from Yukari iirc. Seeing them meet would be cool, especially since Mamizou could easily be provoked with Ran not even trying. Problem is zun seems to like Mamizou more so she'll certainly win even though it makes no sense that someone who came from the hood(Animal Realm) who has old fluff/lore stating her to be the strongest beast would lose. Not to mention the massive IQ difference between the two. It's like trying to fight Skynet or Ultron but in a milf's body. I could see it starting off like picrel then Ran losing for whatever dumb reason.

>>46508674
>Kurama Tengu (鞍馬天狗)/Sōjōbō (僧正坊)/Kiichi Hōgen (鬼一法眼), the Great Tengu who teached Yoshitsune swordsmanship.
Either she will be the leader of Great Tengu, who is also the consigliere of Tenma, or Tenma herself.

>>46538310
>IQ difference
Ran is just a dumb computer.

>>46541499
An autistic computer.

>>46528258
CDS takes place in 2019, 100BM is in 2022, and she showed up in a Lotus Eaters chapter which took place after UDoALG

>>46508674
>Atago Gongen (愛宕権現)/Tarōbō (太郎坊).
Also, this is the funniest shit for me. If Izuna Gongen (Megumu) was shown riding a fox (Tsukasa) in most of their depiction, then Atago Gongen is shown riding a boar. So expect another Great Tengu 2hu with the surname Atagomaru and a boar yokai as her underling.

>>46541577
i think the CDS incident was mentioned when Orin showed up but it didn't start yet

>>46541577
Man, Nitori's new boyfriend is cute!

>>46499640
no, it's a letter from a great tengu, the same rank as megumu

are urban legends basically the equivalent of modern youkai? stuff like creepypastas, cursed video game viruses, and so on.

>>46542829
Yes, but they're less potent.

>>46541585
surely ZUN wouldn't do another crow tengu
this'll be the white wolf daitengu, trust the plan

>>46542829
They're like baby Youkai, they aren't fully formed, eventually some will probably mature into fully grown neo-Youkai, but most will probably die our before then.

>>46542873
>They're like baby Youkai, they aren't fully formed, eventually some will probably mature into fully grown neo-Youkai,
If I remember correctly Byakuren at some point once stated that the behavior and appearance of youkai before the creation of the great hakurei barrier was completely dependent on the imagination of humans and thus were considered "unstable" due to being subject to variable change, and it's only after the great hakurei barrier was established that they developed some kind of independency on their own.

>>46542917
It's like a scale.
Unstable Urban Legend, probably like Shou was before she joined up with Byakuren -> proper Youkai like a Tengu -> Gensokyo Youkai, basically like a in most aspects person but with super powers.

>>46528570
well, since they are employed at the same place in the same occupation one would expect their clothes to match
>>46528472
most fairies are actually taller than the average human, that's canon

>>46542991
and yet most youkai are smaller

>>46528472
SDM brand fairies are a different breed

>>46542829
considering that urban legends in ulil were manifested by the occult orbs (lunarian artifacts) and the allusions to the fact that youkai were originally created by lunarians, the two might indeed share an origin

>>46542107
>Otter
That is one of Yacchie's spy.

>>46518985
You can't take any of that fancy tech with you when you go

>>46518985
I mean, Lunarians may have the most perfect technology in the world, but the Hells are literally infinite, there's an endless amount of them, and as Hecatia's stage theme imply "A world of nightmares never seen before" there might be incomprehensible stuff in hell that makes lunar technology wholly irrelevant

On a side note, the Moon's hell might be the most desolate hell since Lunarians technically live forever if they aren't harmed, and that would mean very little souls end up there at all

>>46542855
I want to see the yamabushi tengu. Also, there are eight known Great Tengu (八天狗) in Japan.

>>46546766
You forget the rabbits. Seiran is even aware of the existence of Hell and what it stands for in UDoALG.

Can someone explain what's with the Lunarians and purity? what does purity even mean in the story and why are they obsessed with it?

>>46548311
I dont know what exactly purity is supposed to be but impurity is supposed to be the thing the brings an end to the eternity of all things.

So basically the reason why people on earth get old and die is because of impurities

>>46548311
Purity = eternal, permanence, endless
Impurity = transient, impermanence, has end

>>46548311
TLDR: Impurity is Nature and
Kegare, translated as impurity is one of the core beliefs of Shintoism and Shinto-Buddhist syncretic beliefs.
Impurity is related to the concept of death and is essentially a form of spiritual pollution caused by biological processes, it is unlike sin in that is carries no intrinsic moral wight, it is simply harmful.
Source of impurity are things like life, death, birth, pollution, illness, and violation of taboos. Although on the subject of death, dead spirits are not impure, as they do not have a dead body and have already died.
Things without impurity do not age or change and can eventually be dirtied by impurity, just like an impure thing may eventually become pure. This also means the Pure Lands, such as the Heaven Realms, such as the Moon, Higan, the Netherworld, and Bhavaagra were Tenshi comes from do not have seasons and have no day night cycle.
Pure beings do eventually die, but this can take hundreds of millions of years naturally.

Beings such as fairies, native gods which can generally be classed as nature deities are personifications of nature and thus impure.
Beings such as Youkai and Vengeful Spirits are resultant of Taboos, their violation and negative emotions from impure beings and are thus impure.
Pure beings can also hide themselves from the Impure, used by Eientei and the Lunarians to fuck with Gensokyo and earth. As well as Yuyuko and maybe Tewi to avoid the senses of the Lunarians.
Kegare Purity is also different from Junko's Purity as her's is more like refining something down to it's spiritual or divine nature, even if that spiritual or divine nature is made from impurity.

>>46548474
Wouldn't youkai technically be closer to being "pure" (not in a moral way lol) than humans due to their longer lifespans and generally being more spiritual by nature than material?
They also do not defecate as far as we know

>>46548925
The purity thing also puts big emphasis into things being unchanging.
Youkai being influenced by believe and how "abstract/undefined" they are, could put them in a constant state of "death and rebirth" in the purity scale.
It's a bit odd since sometimes the line between ghosts/spirits and youkai is a bit thin.
I'm not sure if vengeful spirits where ever defined as pure on impure but they feel kind of entropic and death bringing so I they would feel impure, or at least cause impurities.

In CiLR ch3 there's also Toyohime's explanation that says that conflict/battles/killing is the source of Earths impurity, so youkai with their aggressive nature also fits that definition.

>>46548925
Just because something is spiritual doesn't make it pure, Shintoism is a animist religon and thus literally everything even desires, rocks, and clouds have souls.
Youkai are spiritually impure and arise from things like fear, negative human emotion, taboos, and human crimes.
So they're filled with tons of impurity, and after that youkai are violent beings, some have powers based in impurity like disease manipulation, not to mention they probably don't have a culture of sexual abstinence.

>>46549392
>they would feel impure, or at least cause impurities.
For vengeful spirits, it's a pollution thing.
Human emotions in Touhou, fossilize and break up into minerals and such, vengeful spirits constantly emit these poisons and such.

>>46549392
>vengeful spirits
Kanako did call them a purified grudge

>>46549798
Vengeful spirits are "pure" grudge in the sense that they're a personification of the dead person's grudge, they're not the person themselves, they're purely the grudge. A vengeful spirit can regain their personality/consciousness (Tojiko), but until then they're mostly the grudge, embodied.

In short, it's a figure of speech, not a reference to kegare.

>>46549798
It's as >>46549830 says since she uses 純化 which is the same as Junko's ability.

so are there differences between natural-born youkai and humans that turn themselves into youkai? would the latter also disappear if people stopped believing in youkai or maybe it works differently?

>>46548311
Lunarians, electing to live forever, routed impurity from themselves and from their environment (The moon/Lunar capital). "Purity" is the rejection of both life and death. Fairies, beings of pure life-force, conflict with this and as such were used by Junko and Hecatia on the moon to make certain areas of it uninhabitable to the lunarians in LoLK. By drinking the Hourai elixir, Kaguya effectively acknowledged the concept of death, thus making her impure and resulting in her banishment from the moon.

Speaking of which, its interesting how ZUN equates an objects lack of identification, quantification, and definition as inversely proportional to its divinity. Junko's purification/refinement ability is said to be capable of giving birth to gods, Chimata proclaims that her ability allows items to be returned to nothingness/godliness through relinquishment of their ownership, and even as far back as CoLA Rinnosuke talks about these concepts.
Is it because we limit our perceptions and our beliefs that we shroud our reality in mediocrity?

>>46550731
Bingo anon, definition and details in real time diminish and limit their strength, why they made gensokyo.

>>46548422
I was gonna add to that with my two cents of impurities being heavy and naturally sink and put weight on your soul forcing your body to expend itself to keep itself alive, while being pure floats you up to the heavens and causes no strain on oneself. Until I considered the hourai girls, I can't figure if they're either truely pure or impure, with the extremes of both ideas leading to immutability and eternity. Bedrock is formed by the heaviest things, grossly abundant, and is where everything sinks to with the highest sky being abundant and covering.

>>46550731
True, this is a setting where human imagination is the entire backbone of the whole thing after all

>>46550865
Hourai beings are walking contradictions; they are pure and, at the same time, impure. They gain natural form (impure), but at the same time, said form is in an absolute static state and devoid of entropy (pure).

Speaking of the hourais, are they or are they not still humans?

>>46553017
Not humans since Mizuchi is able to possess Mokou and drain her spiritual energies.

>>46553023
Are they youkais then?

>>46553033
Something like that, but they are more hermit/xian type instead of the man-eating or spooky type.

>>46553037
Guess that means they can't persist in the outside world huh?

>>46553050
I mean, they are the same case as the Lunarian mystery: Are they truly dependent on humanity for them to exist? If Gensokyo disappears, will they also be gone?

>>46553050
>>46553057
If Hourai immortality could be solved that easily Mokou would've flung herself out at the earliest possible convenience.
The point of Hourai immortality is that it is immortality in every sense of the word. They cannot die and will exist for all eternity. That's the whole point of it.

>>46541499
>Dumb computer
>Tfw too much of a tourist to have read Aya's interview with Ran
Lmfao.

Well bros, based on the recent Hifuu announcement it seems we're completely in the endgame for LOOORRREEEE now

>>46553576
I don't care about Hifuu. To be honest.

>>46553583
you should, it's where the canon grim stuff is like half the earth being fucked, the only hope (a satellite researching terraforming for the purpose of terraforming the earth) disappearing, a lot of plant life and fruit being extinct like strawberries, lots of countries have decreasing populations, roads are all overgrown because with the lower population, there's no one driving, every god has died, and the government is setting out lifespan regulations

>>46553576
Yep, the cover screams, "Marry and Renko finally get separated."
Along with another Necrofantasia remix, and a remix of "Does the Forbidden Door Lead to This World, or the World Beyond?," "Crazy Backup Dancers," and "The Concealed Four Seasons"
Which just screams Okina is up to some shit, although the possibility of Marry and Renko meeting a future Okina is interesting.
If they do, I wonder if we'll see her current Teireida and Nishida, or maybe she's trying to scout Marry and Renko as the replacements of Satono and Mai.
The only fanwork I can remember dealing with Marry and Renko and a future Gensokyo off the top of my head is the "Bubble Milk Tea of Reiwa," which humorously has a hag Cirno acting as the Hakurei shrine maiden.

>>46553050
Dunno, she seemed fine in ULiL but that was just a few moments, even if they depend on faith it would be hard to know for sure since even with scientific methods the search of immortality goes on.
The whole being a youkai to Mizuchi is probably due to her soul not being attached to her body like a normal human probably or a nerf in the toho update by ZUN since houraijins were too OP

>>46558716
is she really that different from a human who became a youkai like Alice? I'm just curious

>>46553050
I think they can but due to a lack of faith income they somewhat quickly lose hold of themselves and either dissipate or get eaten by whatever is the local host to the concepts and ideas said youkai possesses

>>46553017
Definitely not, they've become permanent pieces of reality that cannot be extinguished and are perfectly immutable in damn near everything, it's possible it halts psychological development and they're stuck as they are regardless of what they later learn.

>>46555387
Do the song titles actually have anything to do with Hifu though? The other CDs have themes belonging to 2hus, but they don't show up at all, and it's just the two weirdoes adventuring, talking about mysterious, or just describing their dystopian shithole world.

>>46558755
Alice specifically was interested in Mokou in IN extra.
From her point of view an immortal human and a youkai are pretty different, they seem to work on on a different layer than the physical one since supposedly cutting Mokou in half and separating both parts would just make Mokou respawn a new body.
That being say idk how the whole youkai thing applies to magicians since they seem as believe dependent as your average yook.
>>46553198
Maybe if the idea of immortality dies? Or idk maybe if there is no new mass that the soul can make a body off with the universe's heat death(or whatever eschatological event that might happen in Touhou)

Just got done reading CDS and I have no clue what they meant by this. Someone please explain.

>>46559308
It's vague on purpose

>>46559308
Remi is pissed that Flan got all the fun for one part and wants in on it. The next part is how they used her sister behind her back and broke the "protocol" of the big names in Gensokyo without asking the head of household if they could. The last part is her wanting to cause her own problems in the vacuum that's been created after they sent the spirit back and all have their attention elsewhere. You know, just Remi things.

And Sakuya is looking at her with a sense of "fuck, it never ends. I need a vacation, but I'm also committed to doing what needs to be done so I can keep the kitchen running and get supper done on time."

>>46553606
TORIFUNE (the satellite) is definitely underrated as one of the creepiest things in Touhou. Instantly reminded me of Vault 22 when I read that story.

>>46553606
Yeah, a wonder why Akyuu says more outsiders are choosing to stay and settle in Gensokyo in recent times.

>>46559308
tone shift really changed Remi

>>46559542
NTA, but yeah TORIFUNE is really interesting, especially the shrine to Ame-no-Torifune, as Torifune is a Heavenly Kami, a genderless ship thing.
Which is interesting since as shown in SSiB, Kami can make spacecraft, and in Touhou both the Celestials and Lunarians are heavenly Kami.
So TORIFUNE might have been sabotaged or hijacked instead of simply experiencing a glitch.
Captcha:0YARK

>>46559598
I guess that could be explained in-universe as Remi just putting back on the aristocrat facade now that shit is no longer actively hitting the fan at the SDM.

>>46553606
Mt. Fuji might have erupted, and destroyed itself in the process. It was just strange that the trains people travel on have holographic windows that show a fake image, and not the reality of the world they live in.

>>46559598
I miss the wing hats

>>46559598
>>46528447
Did people really hate the old CDS artstyle THAT much? I quite liked it.

>>46560094
I like both styles, they have their charms. Old style was very innocent and dreamlike. New style is cool and has a quality I cant express very well right now.

>>46560113
Me too, Im just saying that a lot people seemed to hate the old one with a lot of passion.
Why did the style even changed anyways? Was a change of mangaka? What happened to the old one?

>>46560094
I personally just hate how minimal the background is but other than that it is pretty nice

>>46560120
old mangaka was getting hsarassed and theu claimed it was due ti her getting sick, another anon probalbty knows the story better

>>46560094
The first couple chapters were really rough.
Looked very deviantart quality in some of the panels. But, the artist was improving, and she was really hitting her strive by the time the Netherworld plotline was ending.

>>46560174
Kinda like Azmaya then huh?

>>46560149
Huh, so people really did hated it.

>>46560228
Nothing to do with her work.
It was pure jealousy, or at least that was what the phycho who was stalking the artist said it was for because it had to do with their boyfriend.

>>46560235
Great! So even worse and more pathetic!

>>46553606
This info was just from the CD cases? That's pretty cool ngl

Do you guys think ZUN will add Muramasa and Masamune at some point? That would be rad.

>>46560491
>Muramasa and Masamune
Oh god please don't remind me of that maximum weeb autism in their wikipedia description.

>>46560509
>maximum weeb autism in their wikipedia description
What???

>>46560517
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune
>A legend tells of a test where Muramasa challenged his master, Masamune, to see who could make a finer sword. They both worked tirelessly, and when both swords were finished, they decided to test the results. The contest was for each to suspend the blades in a small creek with the cutting edge facing against the current. Muramasa's sword, the Juuchi Yosamu (十千夜寒, "10,000 Cold Nights") cut everything that passed its way; fish, leaves floating down the river, the very air which blew on it. Highly impressed with his pupil's work, Masamune lowered his sword, the Yawarakai-Te (柔らかい手, "Tender Hands"), into the current and waited patiently. Only leaves were cut. However, the fish swam right up to it, and the air hissed as it gently blew by the blade. After a while, Muramasa began to scoff at his master for his apparent lack of skill in the making of his sword. Smiling to himself, Masamune pulled up his sword, dried it, and sheathed it. All the while, Muramasa was heckling him for his sword's inability to cut anything. A monk, who had been watching the whole ordeal, walked over and bowed low to the two swordmasters. He then began to explain what he had seen.
No fucking blacksmiths at the time named their fucking katana 10,000 Cold Nights. That's just weeb fantasy with an unreliable source.

>>46560526
>wikipedia being unreliable
>water is hot
>fire is wet
Doesnt change the fact that I want to see those 2 as cute anime girls with weird hats.
Or if ZUN decides to tie them to Youmu and make them Konpaku even better.

>>46560537
Tenka-goken (天下五剣) is more likely to appear than Masamume and Muramasa, since Onikirimaru already appeared in WaHH's backstory.

>>46560094
I thought it was a good and cute artstyle but it was a bit rough at times. I don't know that it could've properly captured the seriousness of some of the more recent scenes.

>>46560094
The earlier chapters were ass, the background are empty as shit and the posing looks janky as shit. The last few chapters looks great though

>>46560526
Looks like you got somebody's attention

>>46560451
I've got a list
-Physics stagnated and has moved toward philosophy and explanations because the costs of observation became too great
-Nearly every country is in population decline due to reaching the final stage of capitalism
-Roads have been pretty much abandoned and there's barely any cars around due to the population decrease. There's flowers and weeds starting to grow through cracks in the asphalt on most roads
-Humans are said to believe more in virtual sights than real ones (well, that's not so different to today)
-Scarcity kicked in, thus most things are made with artificial ingredients, such as artificial eggs and artificial strawberries
-The Lunar Capitol is in danger as humanity begins commercial moon tours
-Terraforming other planets is impossible. The goal became to terraform Earth, presumably to deal with the effects of climate change
-Cities are painted to look like forests due to extreme environmentalism
-The world has moved on to using Methane Hydrates as an energy source
-As society is built on information, the power of imagination decreases. Because of this, mysteries without answers are spurned, which has caused the death of all the gods in Japan. ZUN describes Japan as their graveyard
-The world dominated by Science and the need for falsifiability has resulted in the topic of youkai totally fading
-Old-style liquor has become harder to find as new-style liquor which doesn't get you too drunk and doesn't give you a hangover becomes more popular. Places selling old-style liquor become rarer to find.
-People don't die easily because of the advancement of medical technology, but as a result, the government is setting out lifespan regulations
-Most mountain villages have been abandoned as the population decreases and more people settle in cities. Some people still live there, but not many.

>>46562061
>-People don't die easily because of the advancement of medical technology, but as a result, the government is setting out lifespan regulations
Where is this from?

>>46562085
Dateless Bar, Outsider Cocktail
>"Huh. This is pretty expensive."
>"Because this is an old-style liquor bar, I suppose...
>But with this, you can get more drunk than with usual, cheap liquor."
>"Hm, I wonder if you can actually get drunk and stay healthy at the same time."
>"Healthy? Reeeaally think about it.
>Liquor, oil, salt, sugar, caffeine, gluten... we're actually overly conscious of eating healthily, even though medicine has advanced so much that people won't actually die easily nowadays. Rather it's because of that that planned life expectancy is being put into effect, no? Like this you can't tell if society wants to keep people alive or to kill them, can you? People who spend so much to drink old-liquor are just realists."
Dateless Bar, Omiwa Legend
>Snakes. Snakes! A giant mass of them, all squirming around...
>I figure they can't do anything about them, since snakes are one of Mount Miwa's gods and all.
>Just what could they be eating for there to be so many of them there?
>I'll bet you it's got nothing to do with how Nara prefecture's lifespan regulations are proceeding the smoothest in the country...

>>46562112
Thanks. I have somehow missed that entirely.

>>46562061
>-As society is built on information, the power of imagination decreases. Because of this, mysteries without answers are spurned, which has caused the death of all the gods in Japan. ZUN describes Japan as their graveyard
>-The world dominated by Science and the need for falsifiability has resulted in the topic of youkai totally fading
How does this work while also having college students with magical powers?

>>46562533
>How does this work while also having college students with magical powers?
-Physics stagnated and has moved toward philosophy and explanations because the costs of observation became too great
Science is dogma in the Hifuu future, instead of being a process by which things are discovered people are looking for answers and trying to build a world view using it.
So anything that doesn't fit within that world view should be explained away, which hurts the fantastical like youkai and such, or removed.
During the events of Neo-traditionalism of Japan, Merry is put under quarantine and in a mental asylum, not for her own sake or the sake of other people's health, but because it was she did not fit into peoples understanding, i.e if something is now known to science it does not exist.
>After Maribel Hearn (Merry) became injured at the Torifune Ruins, she caught an unknown disease. It was diagnosed as delirium caused by a virus that does not exist on earth.
>Since society fears things beyond their control, Merry was quarantined under the name of therapy at the Shinshuu Sanatorium. Now, after being informed that Merry is fully recovered, Renko Usami has come to greet her.
>"They wouldn't let me see anyone, and I don't have any relatives in Japan anyway.">
>"Well, what kind of illness was it anyway?"
>"I had recurring fevers, and I would start sleep-walking and seeing visions of other worlds whenever they happened."
"Huh? I thought that was normal for you..."

>>46562593
>if something is now known to science it does not exist.
should be
>if something is not known to science it does not exist

>>46562061
I absolutely loved Trojan Green Asteroid and the other albums because of that grim stuff. Outside all the hate "Grim" evokes in the community, when ZUN does it is absolutely great.

But, can I ask, why do you guys think that ZUN makes a lore this deep and grim for the albums only (Ignoring what can be seen in Gensokyo) Do you think ZUN secretly has a dark vision on the world but doesn't show it too much for... fear?

>>46562061
>Terraforming other planets is impossible. The goal became to terraform Earth, presumably to deal with the effects of climate change
Damn, I was hoping for something more spontaneous and cataclysmic on the other side of the world...

>>46562061
Ngl all of that sounds like the sad and humble beginnings of the lunar capital itself

>>46562722
I always thought that the Lunar Capital were actually Time travelers.

>>46562744
Lot of things add up super conveniently when you compare hifuu earth to the lunar capital around gensokyo, now that I'm comparing the two. Lmao

>>46562722
Well humans are more obsessed with trying to keep the planet alive, the Lunarians would rather have it die.
The Lunarians are also mostly gods unlike the inhabitants of earth, I think it's just a parallel.

>>46562767
The Lunar Capital being actually time travelers somehow can somewhat explain how they are so old. I had another theory that is that the Lunar Capital has some control over the Earth and what happens in the Hifuu albums may be them.

>>46562663
Grimshit is only good when it's related to future Outside World.

>>46562061
>-Nearly every country is in population decline due to reaching the final stage of capitalism
God i hate zun and his overly simplistic beliefs. Muh environmentalism/crapitalism (as if we all havent heard of that, at least speak about something original). Yes it has totally to do with ''late stage capitalism'' just ignore women voluntarily holding off child raising because of education and then not being able to have any children because they aren't fertile anymore by the time they want a kid at like 35+. Zun should really stick to making semi decent/mediocre 4koma printworks and video games instead of trying to punch above his intellectual weight and push gay talking points that any child already knows. The only interesting thing he said was about physics stagnating which i completely agree with. Merriballs Hearnia and her retarded friend are boring anyway. I don't care for psuedo intellectual commentary, I just want more stories about ancient fantastical/magical girls doing their own thing. Luckily he seems to lean more towards this than the former.

>>46562810
Xd

>>46562823
:D

>>46562829
:v

>>46562784
>Humans keep trying to terraform, fail
>everything is getting worse ever so slowly despite the incredible tech they keep developing
>Existential crisis, they delve deeper into philosophy and stop the life regulations when their population got lower in time
>stumble upon rejecting death through their tech, build a world view around it
>discover the dragon palace on the moon, loop back into rediscovering shinto faith while keeping their previous convictions and philosophies
>now have scientific magic, the certainty of their faith makes them even more technically advanced
>say fuck it lets go back in time to compare ourselves now to how we were since we're pretty badass now, moving to the moon was the best thing for our species
I can only speak for myself but I think it's pretty cut and dry unless there's key details I forgot about concerning hifuu and the lunar capital.

>>46562870
>Existential crisis, they delve deeper into philosophy and stop the life regulations when their population got lower in time
>stumble upon rejecting death through their tech, build a world view around it
That could happen, but the lifespan regulation is something starting recently in Hifuu and we haven't seen them trying to stop it or any reason they'd want to.
>discover the dragon palace on the moon, loop back into rediscovering shinto faith while keeping their previous convictions and philosophies
The Lunar Capital is separated by a barrier of logic like the Gensokyo barrier, you can't just walk through it, that's like saying you could drive a tank into Gensokyo.
If anything, humans rejecting the fantastical would make finding the Lunar Capital even harder as it wouldn't fit inside of their worldview.
>say fuck it lets go back in time to compare ourselves now to how we were since we're pretty badass now, moving to the moon was the best thing for our species
Again, the Lunarians are mostly not human, they're heavenly gods.

>>46562935
>the lifespan regulation is something starting recently in Hifuu and we haven't seen them trying to stop it or any reason they'd want to.
Right, yeah, population control to spread out dwindling resources until a solution to their problems can be found, only further in the future for hifuu would the population be low enough for easy to maintain resources be abundant enough for such a small long lived group, a bit before that point they would cease the limited life practice I'm sure.
>The Lunar Capital is separated by a barrier of logic like the Gensokyo barrier, you can't just walk through it
You're right, hifuu has very little they can do to fuck with the LC, but looking to gensokyo and the dragon palace we know that a single place can exist and permeate on a single location through layers of different realms and I find it believable they discover it but with no clue how. Or I'm wrong and the dragon palace is a weird place that has multiple physical locations outright.
>If anything, humans rejecting the fantastical would make finding the Lunar Capital even harder as it wouldn't fit inside of their worldview.
Lol, yeah this bit is probably the hardest thing thing against what I wrote since there's nothing in this department I can use other than pure circumstance and suggestion.
Banking a decent bit on hifuu building a kind of last ditch device of some kind they name tsukoyomi built by a genius that discovers the dragon palace, which is the only thing that would slot neatly into this entire headcanon.
>the Lunarians are mostly not human
I politely disagree, Yorihime being a spirit medium like Reimu and Sanae is a very human exclusive trait last I checked. If I'm wrong then, oops. I'm aware of a certain jailbreaker affecting a kaguya but I believe that to be more a consequence of hourai than lunarian.

>>46563223
>I politely disagree, Yorihime being a spirit medium like Reimu and Sanae is a very human exclusive trait last I checked. If I'm wrong then, oops. I'm aware of a certain jailbreaker affecting a kaguya but I believe that to be more a consequence of hourai than lunarian.
Not really, Yorihime and Sanae both channel other gods, and Yorihime summons a god who's also shrine maiden.
Also in the second volume of Strange Creators of Outer World, Eirin and the Watatsuki sisters are all called heavenly gods, and it's mentioned the Lunarians are mostly heavenly gods.
With the sisters being Touhou versions of Toyotamahime and Tamayorihime, although it is said it's purposefully unclear if Kaguya is a god or human.

>>46550307
Afaik, no. All yooks could be ex-humans except animal ones that come from animals(although I guess humans could also reincarnate in an animal).
The question would be if all yookais conscience comes from an already existing soul or if the conscience is just formed at the same time as the youkai.
>>46563398
idk where that idea came of lunarias are just humans that I've seen lately. But I have to say that gods and humans are pretty close in shintoism and in 2hu, the emperor of Japan descends from the gods and some humans got deified into a god.

>>46562533
Psychic powers are inherent and are very different from mental constructions/natural constructions (magic).
Though, when everyone refuses to believe in them, including those with them, they're overlooked. Atrophied. Maribel and Renko are special in that they've refused to give in to hopelessness and mediocrity.

>>46562810
>just ignore women voluntarily holding off child raising because of education and then not being able to have any children because they aren't fertile anymore by the time they want a kid at like 35+
1: Mostly irrelevant. 2: 100% the result of capitalism.

>>46563766
>idk where that idea came of lunarias are just humans
Nta, but the way I see it, hermits and celestials are humans with extended lives through Buddhist/Taoist/Shinto faith. Alongside the disgusting amount of parallels between the celestials and lunarians with a large chunk of lunarian power being the sheer certainty without doubt in how right they are to reject impurities, life/death, and their science. I find lunarians = advanced humans an easy thing to believe.
I mean, look at tenshi, she's a celestial princess who got banished to earth for drinking an elixir that made her "very" hard to kill and stupid strong (thanks wild and horned hermit). She's functionally the strongest celestial with the rest of them being obscenely weak because of that fact. Reminds me of the hourai and how weak lunarians are, the key difference is lunarians have dumb strong science magic.
>>46563398
>Eirin and the Watatsuki sisters are all called heavenly gods, and it's mentioned the Lunarians are mostly heavenly gods.
Just like what the celestials call themselves?
Hermits and celestials both uniquely have to evade true death from shinigami (apparently it's really an Oni but they don't think that) roughly every 100 years and it spooks the shit out of them much like how lunarians shit themselves in lolk with the fairy invasion and went to weird and extreme lengths to avoid directly dealing with them at all costs since impurity will destroy them.
I think the kami of the higher realms also need faith and have used the celestials and lunarians to feed their own existences, with the lower people feeding the smaller native gods and a higher more devout and certain people giving to the higher gods, both have direct access to the dragon palace after all and the split between them parallels amaterasu and tsukuyomi, the lords of those respective realms very nicely.
With the beginning of the day the sun rises and then sets, the moon then comes and goes with the sun giving chase again just as the shinto faith dictates.
>inb4 time loop nonsense.

>>46565664
>Hermits and celestials both uniquely have to evade true death from shinigami (apparently it's really an Oni but they don't think that) roughly every 100 years and it spooks the shit out of them much like how
Pretty sure it's only Hermits, the celestial are Buddhist Devas, and I'm pretty sure the Ministry came from there as well and might even be part of the Deva government.
The whole celestial to hermit thing is just the most convoluted immigration process ever devised.

>>46565664
>I mean, look at tenshi, she's a celestial princess who got banished to earth for drinking an elixir that made her "very" hard to kill and stupid strong (thanks wild and horned hermit). She's functionally the strongest celestial with the rest of them being obscenely weak because of that fact.
You do realize that the elixir was meant for mortals and has no effect on proper celestials, right? They didn't do shit for Tenshi and there's no reason to believe she isn't weak by their standards.
And they can just make more. It's not some sort of impossible to replicate recipe that would put her forever beyond the others. Tenshi got kicked out for ruining the banquet through sheer selfishness and wasting everyone's time.

>>46518908
The part that really stood out for me was when he pointed out Megumu isn't Aya's boss, just her superior. These kinds of small, insignificant details are very common in autism projects such as Touhou, so it makes me think what other mundane facts he has about the setting which he just never found the chance to expose.

Wouldn't it be funny if aliens also turn out to be a type of youkai due to humanity's belief in them?

>>46572712
Aliens are yukari's mother

>>46573685
Don't be silly, Aliens would never lower themselves to being Greek.

What if Renko' exploded into the three fairies of light and that's where she went?

>>46565198
>1: Mostly irrelevant. 2: 100% the result of capitalism.
You being a big silly goof is the result of le capitalism too i guess...

>>46575302
Would be funny to see a character divide imo.
I guess the fairies could represent time and space somehow?
Star being space and Sunny and Luna time somehow. Still a cracktheory tho

>>46580642
Well, they Renko mentions she can calculate her location using the stars and moon, and Merry says she has weirder eyes than her own.
Luna almost certainty has Lunacy manipulation like Reisen does, but is just infinitely more shit at using it, as hinted at by Yukari.
The light of the Sun and Stars are also said to have strange powers that affect Youkai in WaHH, although since this is ZUN it's probably just his insistent setting up of things.
Just add the fairies to the list of "Lolis who're secretly ???"

>>46581200
>the light of the Sun and Stars are also said to have strange powers that affect Youkai in WaHH,
Sun, Moon and Star seem to be pretty influential in 2hu. I need to recheck how much info there's actually about it, but it has kinda been there since early win era.
Fairies of light and Prismrivers seem to express different aspect of it and the 3 lights form part of the 60 year cycle explained in PoFV.
Seems like each has a tendency. I guess that Sun could express future/present aka what you can change, the moon for the past and stars space for the fairy theory thing. Or dunno maybe each one actually corresponds to past-present-future.
>"Lolis who're secretly ???"
Funny that some fanworks did the Yukari becomes a loli when weakened magically and then Larva implies that to being a possible outcome.

>>46581469
>becomes a loli when weakened magically a
Thats the main theory behind Suwakos appearence.

>>46581509
>Thats the main theory behind Suwakos appearence.
If I remember, ZUN canon answer is one of those "Gensokyo lacks common" sense type statements.
Although it's pretty funny, but then you could ask why the weaker Kanako isn't a Loli? Although she is in BDSM gear 24/7.

>>46581696
Kanako just refuses to use battery saving mode.
Although in the case of god to fairy it's probably better use the height(and STR I guess) saving if INT and/or conscience is already in saving mode.

>>46581469
>Sun, Moon and Star seem to be pretty influential in 2hu
That got me thinking, eclipse has yet to be mentioned in 2hu mythos, hasn't it. The idea that the moon has the capability to block (overthrow) the sun would make for an interesting plot point.

>>46581696
>why the weaker Kanako isn't a Loli?
Didn't Kanako defeat Suwako in the past?

>>46582471
There are no significant legends or myths about the eclipse for Japanese, with the exception of ancient politicians (auguries for their next move) and commanders (battle tactics).

>>46582959
Yeah, but Suwako is also the one who actually works the miracles at the shrine, and is constantly implied to be stronger.

>>46562061
oh and I just found two I forgot
-Merry wonders in CoSD when the last time she heard children laugh was
-Bamboo is synthetic
someone said that in renko and merry's time, no one dreams when they sleep, but I can't find a source for that one

Why the hell is Nazrin's name officially & canonically romanized like that when she has a long u after zu right there in katakana: ナズーリン

>>46583944
Also didn't Kanako """""cheat""""" to win that fight?

>>46562061
Mankind needs one solution for their problem.

>>46584088
Well no, Kanako subjugated Japan as part of a large army and was probably more powerful back then as well.
But it's worth noting that later the gods who would become the Lunarians kicked Kanako's shit in, according to SSiB they also sealed her.
Looking to japanese myth Takeminakata who's part of the inspiration for Kanako was crippeled by Takemikazuchi and confined to the Suwa region after Takeminakata was defeated in a sumo match.
So while Kanako was stronger in the past she's probably significantly weaker than she was due to the Lunarians, she even mentions knowing Sagume in LoLK's Sanae ending, although it doesn't come up again.

>>46584081
So it doesnt sound like Nazirin when spoken out loud

>>46548474
Though technically speaking purity and sin are separate concepts, in practical terms a being attempting to be pure and sinful is a contradiction as sin courts the physical aspects of impurity by its very nature.

>The Dragon
>"The supreme god of Gensokyo. Humans, youkai, and all other living things worship this god. It is believed to live in the ocean, or the sky, or in the rain, but few have been able to confirm this. It looks like a serpent with hands and horns, is far thicker than a great tree thousands of years old, and is said to be long enough to block out the sky. The Dragon's cry rends the heavens and calls on thunderstorms. When it simply bends, it causes earthquakes and makes mountains crumble. Who knows what would happen to Gensokyo if something were to invoke its wrath?"
— Hieda no Akyuu (Perfect Memento in Strict Sense Dragon)

So it'll happen eventually, won't it? quite clearly, this is foreshadowing. It must be as a setup. Someone or something will anger the Dragon god, he'll probably appear in the Touhou finale, as a lost unconquerable boss, locked automatically in a lunatic ++ mode, with no bombs and nothing but 1 life.
I'd like to think he'll wrap up all the mysteries someday.

>>46589645
He will appear, but as an old man with a coconut in his and an hawaiian shirt.

>>46582471
>>46582977
That's honestly quite odd, would expect nips to have something more but I guess they didn't get that impressed by eclipses in the past, like they just went "Nah, prob just Amaterasu meeting his brother, nothing worth wrting down"
And I guess I only realized it now but do we really have 0 mentions of an eclipse in 2hu? Like we have the morningstar/Lucifer thing and youkai getting powerful with moonlight but not a single eclipse?

>>46591644
All I know is the scarlet sisters get a little wild on red moons, don't recall anyone getting hurt though

>>46591840
All women become wild in the red moon.

>>46577470
Not him, but the argument seems simple - women need money to live, to make money they need education, it's hard to get education and have kids at the same time, so they put off having kids.

Touhou 20 will be huge nothingburger

>>46597272
But Anon! You're favorite 2hu will become playable! It can't be that bad!

>>46597316
Playable Lily White thank you ZUN-sama.

>>46597334
she still won't have a portrait

>>46597316
I doubt Kaguya will be playable but I will continue to wait and hope for all eternity if I must

>>46597401
you can always play hollow song of birds

>>46597334
She'll finally confess her love to Cirno-chan?

>>46597417
Is it good?

>>46597545
She'll confess her love for Spring

Do you think Yukari ACTUALLY hibernates over winter, or she's kind of just saying that?

>>46598397
I'd believe it, but either way whether she's sleeping or out vacationing she's not doing anything in Gensokyo as Ran gets bored enough to do mathematical proofs to kill time.

>>46598397
She's outside Gensokyo sexually assaulting and then eating people.

>>46598205
Her love for Spring is strictly platonic, and is just inherent part of her nature.
Her desire to melt the ice fairy's heart is a completely different kind of love entirely.
Why else do you think she only shows up in games that also involve Cirno?

>>46598397
yukari has seasonal affective disorder

>>46565198
Both your gommie idol nations are in a state of demographic collapse due to said gommunism

>>46600948
Go away yuritranny.
Lily white only likes human boys.

>>46597417
>Healthy tanned beauty
Fuck off you ugly ass bitch, whoever you are. A big part of her appeal is being as pale as moon light you retard bitch!

>>46604211
Would her immortality reverse it super quickly?

>>46604276
Yes

>>46604276
As an immortal her soul is what determines her physical appearance, so she'd only stay tanned if she really wanted to. That's why Mokou's hair stays white. It's also a good way to determine whether she'll stay loyal to you by checking to see if her hymen regenerates.

>>46604338
>It's also a good way to determine whether she'll stay loyal to you by checking to see if her hymen regenerates.
That's sounds rather painful.

>>46604338
>As an immortal her soul is what determines her physical appearance
Does that mean that in Touhou it is the soul that decides when you die rather then your body?

>>46604383
Really? Is that you Mahito?
Anyways, for immortals they have unchanging invincible soul, the body is just created as to the desires of the Houraijin by necessity.
So normal people die due to bodilly process, although as Touhou is a shintoist series, these forces are personified as the taoist three worms, each of the worm governs one third of bodily decay and by removing the you become a Hermit, although not a Houraijin.
Houraijin, are true immortals and can never cease to be due to their unchanging souls.

>>46604383
I don't know a whole lot on the subject so take it with decent amount of salt, but the whole hourai elixir reminds me a of Chinese alchemy, and alchemy has always been a quest for any philosopher stone equivalent regardless of where it's practiced. The Chinese historically have been big on trying to find immortality through various means, the hourai could be the ideal in that lense. That elixir is said to still be sloshing around in those immortal's livers.

>>46495159
Kaguya is canonically my wife

>>46608763
How did you get her to become your wife and survive Eirin?

>>46608763
You were rejected just like the others, Kuramochi, and no amount of cope will change that fact.
You're just a loser and your daughter ruined her life forever all because you couldn't accept that some random girl living happily with her adopted family didn't want to marry you.

Are peaches the only heavenly food in touhou? Both celestials and lunarians seem to consider them sacred

>>46608997
pretty sure that's because they're based upon the peaches of immortality, which immortals were known to consume

different note, i remember reading somewhere that heavenly peaches are one of the raw ingredients that Eirin used to create the hourai elixir

Canon sucks.
Die.

>>46609141
Dilate.

this was a great thread to read

>>46612501
Yeah, it's rare we get an honest and good natured canon lore discussion on here.
They're always a treat to have.