/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>45985636
Funny! KEKAROO!

Rika thread

Fit slim Ange is how she imagines she looks like. This is what real Ange looks like

>>45987083
Squealing piggy

>>45985636

>>45987573
WE GOT IT

>>45987573
I DON'T GET IT

>>45986973
Please quit cringeposting, these threads are already painful enough to read as it is.

>>45989055
you're just enabling xe by replying to him

>>45989075
>him
Their pronouns
s are they/them like Lion

kill yourself rat

>>45986973
This little piggy looks so built

>>45987573
If he's upset about war and wants uplifting stories he should just watch M.A.S.H

may you normalfags with gfs and wives die and scream in agony. kill yourselves

Rion

>>45990211
Wasted potential

>>45990405
My king :)

>>45986667

>>45990503
anon

Another colored panel, manga artstyle is so nice, Ange especially looks ridiculously pretty

>>45987573
stop.

>>45986973
EP4 makes a lot more sense now.

>>45991100
Oh thanks

>>45993601
welcome

Rosa JAV

Delicious cloud~

>>45985636
Would Morty survive in Hinamizawa?

Genuine question: Aren't fans that call readers "goats" or "loveless" missing the point of the story just as much as those they are painting/labeling with the aforementioned terms?
Just because someone is questioning parts of the story or looking at it differently than intended shouldn't be grounds for being labelled in such a way. Isn't the message of the story about compassion and understanding? Aren't fans who use those terms lacking in the qualities the VN is trying to promote?

>>45995212
My interpretation: ''Goats'' Are referring to people who can't seem to look at the story with love and only care about the facts and logic (Erika for example, she leads the goats in Ep8 for a reason).People who label the story as nothing but a massacre and do not try to understand anyone to begin with; All that matters is that someone must've been the culprit and the motive does not matter.

R07 was aware that not everyone would be able to find the truth and reach the heart of the story even if they look at the story with love, simply because it could just be too difficult for some to solve. Which is why he included solutions in the manga, where they are used to build on the parallels with Ange and Beato until the cage of obligations climax, where everyone reaches a new understanding of themselves and the cycle they were stuck in. TL;DR ''Goats'' is a term meant for people who refuse to engage with the heart of the story and refuse to look at it with love to begin with, not necessarily for people who want to theorize. (Also unrelated but the goats in Ep8 are also parly meant at a jab at people in real life who theorize about real incidents for fun)

>>45995305
>refuse to engage with the heart of the story
This happens with all sorts of shit. People recommend their friends media, but the other party doesn't actually care and just watches it to keep up conversation. I think a "Goat" is just what you said. Someone who doesn't give a shit and is just going through the motions.

>>45995479
Yeah, I just meant that in Umineko's context specifically because in Umineko it's the whole point of the story. Erika for example can never reach the golden land because Umineko absolutely requires you to look at it with love in order to do so. She refuses to engage with the heart of any of the characters, therefore she will never be able to look past its mysteries and reach a full answer behind them. Umineko's truth is that when logic and reason fail, the only way you can reach an answer is with love, and she has none of it, neither do any of the goats who mindlessly theorize without trying to understand the bigger picture. Ange is like this too at the start of EP4 but she eventually learns what it means to love and it's very heartwarming.

>>45995305
>People who label the story as nothing but a massacre and do not try to understand anyone to begin with
This might have been true as you read Umineko but by the end, it's extremely difficult to leave the story feeling that way. Even then, there might be those that engaged and understood the story, underlying themes and messages but might feel for example that the questions arc is just a massacre that does little to further overarching story; others that might still want answers to the cases from the questions arc that was ~half of Umineko after all.
>All that matters is that someone must've been the culprit and the motive does not matter.
Understandable but do fans who call those who want answers "goats" or "loveless" know that that person didn't engage with the story openly even though it might ostensibly look that way? There's no need to uncharitably reply to them by ignoring their points, only to call them names.



>R07 was aware that not everyone would be able to find the truth and reach the heart of the story even if they look at the story with love, simply because it could just be too difficult for some to solve. Which is why he included solutions in the manga
Does this not denote that there are some issues with how the story and/or mystery was handled if a good portion of readers were unable to reach the truth? If you need auxiliary media to adequately explain things, I'd argue that you've failed somewhere along the lines. Sure, some people might have reached the truth but from my observation, it doesn't seem to be a majority of readers. There have also been points in the story where Ryukishi wasn't able to give readers the proper tools to understand how they should be engaging with the story (Chapter 2, which required a re-write of Chapter 3 even though the tools were needed in Chapter 2, not 3).

>>45995305
>>45995479
>''Goats'' is a term meant for people who refuse to engage with the heart of the story
Whilst I know those who read fully read the story and aren't able to reach the truth can't be labelled as "goats", surely they are just as bad as those trying to pick apart other parts of the story (these readers might be hung up on certain details or are demanding readers), whilst those that passively consume the content might not have tried too hard to engage with the story either. I don't think either group is better or worse than the other but I've only ever seen one of those groups attacked. People seem to empathise with the fan that cannot naturally reach the truth but needlessly attack those that have misgivings about the story.

>>45995479
I don't think true "goats" as you describe are all that common. How many people would "go through the motions" for like 100+ hours reading a VN?
They might for a while, but if someone's not into it I think it's much more likely that they'd just drop it partway through.

If you aren't interested enough to look into the "heart" of a story this longwinded, sounds like that'd be pretty fucking boring.

>>45995574
I don't disagree with your points but you'll find that those who might want to go back and examine the murder mystery to break it down and reach the "whodunnit" and "howdunnit" are beaten down as being "loveless" or "goats", which doesn't seem fair. Just because the story is all about the "whydunnit" shouldn't preclude the examination of other elements of how these cases/chapters created and structured both the murders and the mystery. I know many found the answers to be extremely cheap, which dragged the overall quality of the story down for them. I find it a disservice to completely ignore these people and to label them is to not learn the takeaways from Umineko.

Umineko provides so many easy ways to discredit, downplay or attack people who might have differing opinions that fans don't even bother to engage (rightly or wrongly) with those who bring up issues. You have extremely ham-fistted examples of this with Erika, the goats, and canned responses such as "without love, it cannot be seen".
Personally, I took issue with the questions arc cases, which didn't sit right with me. With the answers arc, the questions arc starts being phased out, and less relevant. I reached the truth but I was still extremely vexed about the execution of the question arc murder mysteries. Any time I voice my issues with Umineko I'm hatefully dismissed or I get posts similarly to yours, with a condescending tone calling me loveless because if I had love, I would not take issue with X or Y.

>>45995644
I think it goes back to how the story was written. Ryukishi tried really, really hard to make a mystery that was hard to solve but didn't explain how to process some of the information we're presented with. Key examples being: Who is the detective? Was it explained that they're seeing true events and that any other perspective is faked? How can one forgo being a detective? Even knowing these points, things are still extremely (unfair) tricky. You still have victims that aren't in on it corroborate a faked story because they see shit before they die, making it harder to figure out; you have Battler giving up being a detective and now the things he sees magical shit that perfectly aligns with the rest of the fakery. Alternate personality deaths.

Readers really needed some guidance, and earlier than they got it. It feels like Ryukishi was to preoccupied with the creation of these difficult cases to consider how the reader might interpret or understand those events. I don't think it's fair to blame the reader for this. As you keep reading you eventually get it but the early chapters can be quite a hurdle for some to overcome.

>>45995630

I see, to me Umineko is a work that heavily rewards thinking, and it's not something I think anyone can claim to truly understand because understanding it means something different to everyone. The purpose of the questions arcs themselves provide different premises on Rokkenjima in order to tease a solution that is doomed to remain a mystery in the context of just the VN, and Ange is eventually presented with this. The fact that they are puzzles to be solved is something that comes after that fact for me personally and there is nothing wrong with trying to solve them or wanting to know the answer to them imo. The answer isn't what's important at the end, understanding is.

>Understandable but do fans who call those who want answers "goats" or "loveless" know that that person didn't engage with the story openly even though it might ostensibly look that way?

This is exactly why conversations like the one we are having right now are important when it comes to finding your own understanding of Umineko. I do not really take people who label Umineko as ''Metashit nonsense with nothing to say'' seriously, as those people don't seem like they are able to look past their possible ignorance and realize that they should consider a viewpoint other than their own and completely neglect the trust between author and reader. The difference between someone who is trying to understand and someone who doesn't want to understand is very distinguishable, though I realize I might sound pretentious. I don't mean to say everyone should like Umineko, I mean to say that everyone should be able to recognize that Umineko has meaning, even if they don't agree with it or like it, just like you should be able to recognize the meaning behind a person's actions.

>Does this not denote that there are some issues with how the story and/or mystery was handled if a good portion of readers were unable to reach the truth?

That's a fair point to make, however imo I can't imagine a mystery work where absolutely everyone that reads it is able to find the solution by themselves. Some people just aren't able to no matter how hard they think about it and there is nothing wrong with making the work more accessible for those people that truly care about it. However, still, it's a fair criticism to make that Umineko may have been too difficult, it merely depends on the person. By the end of the question arcs, you have allof the tools to figure things out and it very clearly lays out the direction that Chiru is going to take. However again, you do make a very fair point, R07 could've done better when it came to explaining how to handle the information you are given and it makes EP2 a very confusing first read.

>Whilst I know those who read fully read the story and aren't able to reach the truth can't be labelled as "goats", surely they are just as bad as those trying to pick apart other parts of the story (these readers might be hung up on certain details or are demanding readers), whilst those that passively consume the content might not have tried too hard to engage with the story either.

I admit I'm not sure if i really get exactly what you're meaning to say here however I find nothing wrong with not really caring much for Umineko as a whole or not thinking it's a very well-written story, everyone has their own views. Again what goats mean to me are people who refuse to consider none but their own viewpoint and consider it fact. People who have no trust in the work or the author and claim that its nonsense, and that everyone but them is stupid. Again, basically Erika. I'm really not the best person to make a long post about this stuff but I hope you get what I mean, I apologize if I'm not making a lot of sense. Please remember I'm not asking you to see things my way per se, the way I see Umineko is not objectively correct by any means. I'm just giving you my view on the work so it can help you build your own, and hearing yours will also add to mine.

>>45995908
I think the ridiculous puzzles early on eventually serve the love story. Battler is rightfully like "how the hell could I ever solve this?" Sayo's heart is a total mess that not even Chadler can figure out. It's messy as a work, with a lot of redundancy, but the concept ended up being solid.

>>45995817

I can see where you're coming from I think, i don't mean to sound condescending so I aplogize if I do. Continuing with my own interpretation, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to find the solution to the mysteries and the question arcs especially are more like puzzles themselves that build up to Umineko's themes and they are very important because even if certain aspects of them can be solved with mere reasoning, Umineko preaches that eventually you will need to consider love at some point if you want to reach a satisfying conclusion. Even if Erika is an extreme example, Umineko takes its themes seriously and does not fully donwplay or discard her way of thinking. In possibly one of Umineko's most important scenes, Erika and Dlanor face off in a logic battle where Erika provides 84 blue truth's as to how her Ex could've cheated on her, while DLanor can only provide 6 arguing that he didn't. Erika wins said logic Battle but Dlanor is still able to point out the eventual limit to her way of thinking in that she wasn't able to refute her points and truly disprove that he didn't love her. It doesn't compromise either character's philosophy and it shouldn't, I'm not explaining it very well but if you read it its a very balanced exchanged which respects both character's way of thinking. At the end of the day Umineko is a philosophical text and philosophy is something that everyone has their own opinions about. It doesn't deny or downplay the power of logic and reason, however it does point out its limit. Umineko's argument is that pure conductive reasoning can't always work.

>Umineko provides so many easy ways to discredit, downplay or attack people who might have differing opinions that fans don't even bother to engage (rightly or wrongly) with those who bring up issues

I kind of half-agree with you here because Umineko does seem like it spits in the face of the reader in EP8 even if I don't see it that way myself. I think there are people who interpret the episode as jab at them and there are people who interpret is a way to jab people who don't like the work, neither of those interpretations I agree with. I've explained in a previous post who I consider a goat but it has nothing to do with people who think Umineko isn't particularly well-written or disagree with it's philosophy, just those who simply do not try or care whatsoever yet choose to have an opinion on it. And it's not really a word I throw around much at all because I prefer to just talk about the work with someone who seems to have issues with it rather than labelling them. The work and all of philosophy in general is subjective and everyone is encouraged to find their own interpretation about things they care about. I am not good at making long posts but I hope you get what I'm trying to say, apologies if I sound incoherent or don't make much sense

>>45995305
Nah, is just that Ryukishi07 is not a big fan of the beastmen faction of Warhammer...

umishitcord shut the fuck up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>45995945
>The answer isn't what's important at the end, understanding is.
Fair but...
>trust between author and reader
I'll get to this.

>I do not really take people who label Umineko as ''Metashit nonsense with nothing to say'' seriously
I don't belive it's unfair to say that given that at least 3/4 of the story can be as "metashit". Are they being dismissive of the overarching story to claim that? Sure. I don't believe they read the story or it was a turn-off that so much of Umineko consisted of that. These people might have understood the message/truth but found that the former part took too long, resulting in the story taking its time to kick in. I can understand that you'd dismiss these people as they are somewhat uncharitable in describing the VN (albeit not necessarily wrong or meritless).

>The difference between someone who is trying to understand and someone who doesn't want to understand is very distinguishable
It is but as I brought up earlier, only those that engaged at some point yet have hang ups with certain elements are attacked, labelled and mocked, which you'd think those that understood the message of Umineko would should a little more humility to their (misguided) plight. Those that didn't try very hard, somehow not reaching the truth by the end? They're fine, no one attacks them even though they've shown to engage with the story less than those that have greivances.

>I can't imagine a mystery work where absolutely everyone that reads it is able to find the solution by themselves.
Fair, and honestly? It's more fun to be wrong, feeling like I had the wool pulled over my eyes. Umineko is an extremely long story to never explicitly lay out everything in detail. Yes, I'm aware that sometimes leaving things ambiguous can be better as it lets our brains come up with far better and more interesting conclusions than an author might, there are people that would have liked some solid answers. There are those that never reach the truth that could be enlightened, and there are also those that want to see how characters react to the answers, be it both the protagonists and antagonists. Regardless of your views, I feel it undeniable that Chapter 8 could have been considerably better.

>I hope you get what I mean, I apologize if I'm not making a lot of sense.
I completely understand what you mean and I'm extremely thankful that you're willing to engage me in conversation in good faith. Thank you.

>People who have no trust in the work or the author and claim that its nonsense
Not sure how many words I'm at but I'll write another post exclusively explaining why I do not like Ryukishi as a writter and it's related to trust between reader and writer. I hope it will provide insight why people might have such a mentality.

>>45996268
> I feel it undeniable that Chapter 8 could have been considerably better.


I love Ep8 but I do agree in all honesty, it is the weakest of all the chapters imo, it drops a lot of nuance. This is true for Higurashi as well but Uminekos subject matter is a lot more complex and sensitive so it's a worse issue here even if the chapter itself still means a lot to me personally.

>Not sure how many words I'm at but I'll write another post exclusively explaining why I do not like Ryukishi as a writter and it's related to trust between reader and writer.

I see, I'll keep an eye out for it!! And thank you too ^^

>>45996171
>i don't mean to sound condescending so I aplogize if I do.
I understand but it can come across that way. I find the core message hard to miss given how much it beats you over the head with "love". Usually, diverging even slightly from the central message, and depending on the issue, there are multiple ways to attack someone, as I've discussed but at the core, it's always a "well you just don't have the 'love' to understand it, that's why you take issue with it". As valid as that angle might be, it's extremely condescending.

>Erika
She's a great character that you love to hate but she is also such an extreme on the side of finding the truth at any cost that she cannot be used to compare people who take issue with Umineko to her; it's a false equivalence. No one reading Umineko is gonna go to such an extreme to arrive at the answer(s) they seek. Easy to label them and forget, though. Pretty hard to argue yourself out of being depicted as Erika. I feel who those that are taking issue with some of the "truth" of the story are the result of either not being given the guidance/tools to understand how events should be viewed or have lost their trust in the author. There's validity here and to their grievances but they stop short of the truth, be it because they dropped the story during the questions arc or otherwise. As such, they, along with their claims/complaints are dismissed.

So, my issue with Ryukishi and trust? Well, it's entirely subjective. Ryukishi's work really requires a level of trust between the reader and him but I feel that that request for trust is strictly a one-way street. You enter the story billed as one thing (Horror & mystery for Higurashi and murder mystery for Umineko) but there's a shift in narrative and what is being dealt with somewhere along the line in the answers arc. All this time you're just expected to go along with things because surely Ryukishi will provide reasonable answers for everything. Ryukishi is so linearly focused on the mystery that he doesn't address how people should take certain elements (Chapter 2 Umineko, the time jumps back before the happenings [at least it's somewhat addressed in Umineko, unlike Higurashi]). For some more demanding readers, it becomes grating over time and you begin to lose trust. Said trust is never built back up, instead, all that good faith you had in him is used against you went you ultimately discover that you've been deceived—in what I consider—an extremely cheap manner.

In Higurashi Chapter 1 you're presented with 2 plausible explanations for the events—the paranormal or a conspiracy. Oh? It was all a delusion? Not impossible but do we have any solid evidence in the chapter? Well...we have a needle that he cannot find again. Yep, that's the smoking gun. There's the syringe but that could be taken from the scene, as an example. The conspiracy and paranormal elements, though? Well they were real, too. Just not the solution to events. Even though Keichi was delusional, those elements were actually real, not imagined.

how hyperbolic and pretentious fuckwit you have to be to keep talking about umi? what the fuck warhammer has to do with /jp/? find a better board shit out your umishit. god should fucking nuke this place. fucking umineko is lame and everything revolves around your umi shit and ange you loser uncreeps. you're disgusting.

ciconia is better Higabana

>>45996690
Yami wo kirisaku OH DESIRE!

>>45996690
>oink oink
shut up shitkapiggy

>>45996582
In Umineko I find the deception and misdirection to be incredibly unfair. We're dealing with fake events, fake people, deaths of intangible things such as personalities, multiple collaborators, and little details and nuances that make figuring out the answers excessively difficult. It's—in my opinion—too many elements at work against the reader to figure it out; add to that a lack of direction when faced with these issues and some just can't really deal with it. Along the way, you keep getting fucked over by the smaller details and then hit again by semantics that might make entire angles of thought impossible or unrealistic.

You have instances where everyone is in on it so you get faked events, you have people who aren't participants but they give the same version of faked events because it's >1 hour to their death. You have the mastermind killing themself in Chapter 2 for no reason but basically, still being around because Battler believed in magic? I'm sure you'll think back on those events and not consider Shannon as Beatrice for a while as you recall Chapter 2's events. Chapter 4 has everyone say Kinzo was there right before killing them, just for a cheap red text. So many events aren't real, only occurring for the reader, to once again be fucked with. Ultimately, I don't see how I can keep my trust in such a writer. He so thoroughly fucks with me like I've never seen (not even in Uchikoshi's work [wheelchair Delta comes close]). I can still understand the central story being told but I can't overlook the mystery elements. Said mystery doesn't even need to be so extreme as you could dial it down and still take away the same messaging, but without the backlash, the need for a manga to explain things or the need to re-write chapters because readers don't "get" it.

It's too much to overlook even though the story is an endearing, heart-warming one.

>>45996705
>>45996719
>shitka
?? somehow singled me out because he knew i am not part of his shitcord group of faggots.
shitokofag. aka. rat is such a big cry baby and a hyperbolic tryhard. umishitters think shitting up this place with racebaiting shit will make someone to leave? so pathetic.

>>45996705
>>45996719
AND the fact you keep replying because you and i both know you're wrong and have some sort of psychotic vendetta against people calling your faggot behavior out. you're cancer and a bad person.

>>45996746
Yami o hikisaku OH DESIRE!

>>45996765
>Yami o hikisaku OH DESIRE!
>Yami o hikisaku OH DESIRE!
>Yami o hikisaku OH DESIRE!
oh my umicord faggot please you're not fucking btfoing anyone in here you're just making yourself more retarded

>>45996774
Yurusarenaki OH DESIRE SACRIFICE A SHEEP TO A GOD

>>45996746
Why do you stick around here if you're in the company of rats, shitters, faggots and the like? If the threads have been taken over, resembling nothing of what your remember and/or want of this place why not move on and find a better place where you might discuss what you want? I don't believe either you or the person replying to you are being productive, and replying to them seems like a waste of time; why bother?

>>45996790
>>45996745
cancerous baby

>>45996582

>Well, it's entirely subjective.

This basically, it all comes down to what you yourself think and consider important while keeping an open mind to other people's opinions as well in order to enrich your own, everyone has their own opinions and philosophies. Many are definitely agressive in their haste to defend or hate on a work and even if the former comes from a place of love, it is nonetheless annoying for anyone that's on the receiving end of it. I think the Manga is still a great retelling of Umineko which adresses some of the issues you mentioned, while maintaining the core messages and themes, and I hope it was a better experience for you as well if you've read it (or plan to). However you're right in that the fact a manga like that exists can be considered a big flaw in and of itself. And you're right, Erika herself is an extreme comparison but I just brought her up because her base philosophy is pretty much what Umineko itself considers ''Goat'' behaviour, but it recognizes there's merit to said way of thinking and that everyone may not be as extreme as her imo with scenes like that, but I don't have a lot of time to elaborate more at the moment. Umineko lies to the reader every chance it gets and requires you to make logic out of magic, it's bound to not be enjoyable for some which is very understandable even if I myself adore it.

>>45996793
i just find it mind boggling you keep posting in here like a fucking unit of hivemind. kill yourself thoughtless redditor fucker
>>45996803
nice reddit space, idiot cancerout normalfag.

>>45996793
Sir, please do not feed the wildlife.

>>45996746
>?? somehow singled me out because he knew i am not part of his shitcord group of faggots.
it's just not our first conversation, nigger...

>>45996831
silly retarded angeloser. you're way worst, believe it, hivemind umi bots.
>>45996840
do i fucking know you? anonymous.

>>45996803
Well, thanks for the chat anon. It has been a pleasure! If you want to chat with me in the future, about anything add me on Steam (don't use anything else). My ID is: Olitma. Anyone else can add me to if they wanna chat or call me a retard or something, I don't mind.

>>45996831
I get it but it's just a sad sight to behold.

>>45996816
>>45996849
Anon, I hope you have a wonderful day. I also hope you find the help you need, be it a caring family, friends, or a conselling psychologist. You can even add me as above to vent or chat, idm. I'll help you however I can, should you reach out.

alright i accept defeat. it seems to me there a lot to talk about, umi that is. But, umi shall never defeat thy soul because umi is not endless.

>>45996889
> You can even add me as above to vent or chat
do you know where you are.

This gives me happiness

>>45996997
Sometimes it helps if it's directed at something more than just "anon".

do (You) like Sayo?

Oh my god an actual fucking discussion in this thread that isn't shizoposting or actual retards posting shartddit """memes"""
What a nice surprise

>>45995212
The story falls apart if you question it, so rabid fans have to discourage that kind of behavior to keep up the appearance that they're correct and intellectual for liking it.

>>45997738
It's rare nowadays, but /07/th has always been a beacon of highly intelligent discussion.
>>45997770
Weakest bait. What's falling apart if you "think" about it exactly?

>>45996329
Nta
Ryukishi has never been the best at writing endings but I think it's especially difficult to give a resolution to tie something like umineko, people are too hard on him for that I think. I liked ep8 a lot myself and all that happened in it but it didn't have the feeling of a grand sendoff you'd expect

>>45997770
The story at the heart of Umineko is perfectly fine. What falls apart is everything around it, which can off-handedly be dismissed as "metashit".

>>45997822
>What's falling apart if you "think" about it exactly?
nta but I find that Umineko's overall story doesn't really need the questions arc, as they don't add too much. 6 & 7, whilst being similar in nature to 1-4 actually contribute significantly to setting up the story to fully kick in gear for Chapter 7. I understand that not everyone will feel that way but it kinda stings seeing 1-4 as "wasted" just to create mystery (Ryukishi's weakest aspect), adding little else; it also makes re-reading Umineko more annoying. Some of the fat could have been trimmed. The story doesn't fall apart though, even if you dislike how these elements are handled.

>>45997932
You gotta admit though, he doesn't do himself any favours by writing himself into a corner with the WTC series. I don't understand why he must make things so convoluted and contrived.

>>45997994
>What falls apart is everything around it
>The story doesn't fall apart though
You wrote that much, yet didn't say a single thing.

>>45997932
I still think Ch.8 is very good don't get me wrong, I believe it ties up the story beautifully, especially with the choice at the end. It's just not as strong as the other chapters imo.

>>45998021
Given that the story only properly begins in the answers arc, I claimed that things preceeding it do somewhat fall apart. That's ~half of Umineko. If you believe that's me saying nothing then so be it.

>>45997994
>it kinda stings seeing 1-4 as "wasted" just to create mystery (Ryukishi's weakest aspect), adding little else; it also makes re-reading Umineko more annoying.
I can't possibly disagree more with this, other than Battler rehashing the same sentiment over and over which is an issue in all of 07th works anyways, Beatrice's games were the best part of the whole series especially when you view them in hindsight after you learn what they really are. The only thing that drags on too long is a lot of the conversations and even on rereads I like it overall (except alliance, the wordcount of that one could easily have been cut in half and I'm lucky that Ange/Maria's story was so captivating for me specifically or else I would've been fucking miserable trudging through it)

>>45998051
Saying the questions arcs don't matter is really bizarre to me. The point is to introduce and develop it's characters and mysteries, and to tease an answer which is forever doomed to remain a mystery. It's about Battler coming to learn the truth before Ange and evidently the reader does. I agree that some fat could've been trimmed but to say they are unecessary is something I can't agree with

>>45998051
The story begins in the very first chapter; the Beato vs Battler 'game' in the second one. The nature of the world, as well as the truth behind the tales, is being explored in the third and fourth episodes, and the fifth and sixth ones develop and further deepen the narrative surrounding the Rokkenjima incident.
If you believe that the story would work without the question arcs, or that Battler's entire journey was meaningless, you might want to reread the VN, but slower this time.

>>45998067

Off topic but same, I adore the Ange/Maria plot, it's why EP4 is my favorite. So much wonderfully moving dialogue and it's where you learn what magic truly is

>>45998080
It's by far my favorite as far as how much I enjoyed reading it and how it made me feel and all that gay shit, but god is it long

>>45998093
As if the other chapters aren't
Still though, Ep4 has some good writing. It really does build upon what you read through 1-3, in a fun way. Maybe it could have been condensed a little, but that's a hypothetical.

>>45998107
>As if the other chapters aren't
It's almost 100k words longer than the rest of the question arcs

>>45998097
I miss my ex.

>>45998071
>say they are unecessary is something I can't agree with
There would obviously need to be more added to other sections should the questions arc be removed for character development but given just how lengthy it is, there's not that much substance to it imo.

>>45998073
Yes, I believe that the questions arc invested too much time on cases that ultimately amounted to very little pay-off. There would have been better, more relevant ways to show Battler's journey. The supposed pay-off to the questions arc did nothing for me, even thought they were my favourite Chapters.

>Beatrice's games were the best part of the whole series
I agree but examining the howdunnit significantly impacted my enjoyment of Umineko. All that for simulations? Lame. He could have done much better.

>>45998156
>All that for simulations?
What?

>>45998172
The hypothetical scenarios created by Yasu. I actually hate the questions/answers arc split in Higurashi, too. Events from the questions arc aren't very relevant to the answers arc, even though the questions arc chapters are the best part of Higurashi. I wish he had an editor to condense that shit.

Worst thread we've had in a while fuck umifags are so obnoxious

>>45998194
kill yourself, rat

>>45998194
Because posting onion men is so much better than this.

>>45998097
I remember, back in the day... fantasizing about a spin off series with Erika ruthlessly solving mysteries. The possibilities were really endless then.

>>45998097
these tits need to be put to a good use

>>45996745
Very much agreed. I don't object to Umineko messing with the truth, I object to the manner in which it's handled, which feels cheap and just in service of whatever the author wants to happen.

>you have people who aren't participants but they give the same version of faked events because it's >1 hour to their death
That is definitely one of the most absurd and arbitrary rules Umienko has. It would make sense if it was like, if someone loses contact with Battler then dies, their POV between those two points can be distorted because it's a catbox Battler can never confirm, but instead it's an arbitrary half-hour before death because... why? If they were standing right in front of Battler minutes before they were set to walk around the corner and get shanked, would they be allowed by that rule to start babbling about seeing butterflies? Surely they wouldn't. right?

And of course the very core of the solution, the Shkanon thing, is just so patently absurd that it makes the wsolution look like a joke, not helped by Ryukishi not even trying to make it plausible (like detailing how Yasu took care to manage to two identities around Jessica or whatever) but instead just piles handwave upon handwave. You were supposed to use the rules of the mystery game to find out who arbitrarily breaks the rules of the mystery game.

>>45998399
Well said. Ryukishi brings up and uses the Knox commandments as a sort of guideline for the rules that have to be followed but he blatantly either breaks rules all the time or has cases where it's a: "Uhh, well I guess I could stretch that definition to include that, too...I think".
For example, was Yasu shown early into the story? Y-yyes? W-wait! NO! Personalities are treated as different people/beings so no, but technically yes because well..they're all Yasu.
Body doubles or twins? Are we prepared for that? Given how many people are able to finish reading Umineko without arriving at the truth should have answered that as a resounding no.
Supernatural and preternatural? How does a dead personality count here? What mechanism is used to completely kill said personality without it ever being able to resurface?
I forget but doesn't the detective make light of at least 1 piece of evidence at some point in the story?

Have you read Sekimeiya? It's not as character-focused as Umineko so it might not be your thing but if you enjoy your mysteries as much as it seems, you'd love it as it entirely focuses on mystery. It took its inspiration from both Umineko and Remember 11. It's a fantastic read if you're the niche for it!

>>45998584
Nta but i tried to read sekimeiya but it was not nearly as engaging as Umineko for me and I had to drop it. I heard good things about it but it was so slow, it made Umineko seem fast paced for me. Aside from it's mystery, Umineko also has incredibly written characters right off the bat, meanwhile Sekimeiya's characters were very uninteresting to me.

>>45998616
>i tried to read sekimeiya but it was not nearly as engaging as Umineko for me and I had to drop it.
Completely understandable. It's an extremely niche product that only diehard fans of mystery can really appreciate. It's also in a weird middle ground where it's not really a book but not a VN either, appealing to neither group. How far into it did you get? I dropped it at the start like twice before I really got into it. I had a lot more fun once I started taking down notes of anything that came into my head and trying to create a working solution.
>Umineko also has incredibly written characters right off the bat, meanwhile Sekimeiya's characters were very uninteresting to me.
That's a common negative people have with Sekimeiya but I have always seen it as a positive; I like that all characters are underdeveloped and mysterious because it's hard to eliminate candidates that might be the mastermind or judge motivations because we know so little about everyone. It makes sense to me that you wouldn't want to open up to people you're locked in with because they might use that info against you. I loved Sekimeiya as a mystery fan, especially after Umineko's lackluster mysteries and Remember 11's well...unfinished story but that actually makes it Uchikoshi's best story because there's still some mystery less for me to ruminate on, without him completely ruining the whole thing as he does at the end, much like Ryukishi.

>>45998194
agreed it's just on-topic spam meaningless drivel. Disgusting really.

>samefagging this obviously
kill yourself rat

Now that those higutrolls are gone can we finally go back to discussing Yasu gender?

your identity crisis will never be part of umi, ameribro

This thread is so fucking beautiful I'm actually crying right now...

Jessica and Kanon are trans characters!

If you saw Lion and didn't think she was trans then you need to reread Umineko again

Beatrice the trans witch says Trans rights!

Well, fun's over

>>45999171
I love umi twitter so much ^w^

>>45999217
>>45999178
>>45999171
>>45999038
I'm 90% sure this is a higutard sperging out that umineko is being discussed and doing a falseflag.

>>45999247
Nah Umicord raids this place often and it's filled with umineko twitter e-celebs.

>>45999247
this is always what happens, nobody beside rat brings up non-existent tranny shit here

>>45999217
>If you saw Lion and didn't think she was Saber then you need to reread Umineko again

if lion looked like this, maybe then i`d believe it`s a male

Post your favorite trans art of Umineko y'all I need to build up my folder

>>45998745
Got to around chapter 2 but I just had to drop it, I became so disinterested. I can acknowledge the mystery it was setting up, I just wasnt interested enough personally to continue, I might try and pick it up again at some point though. Umineko was a more engaging experience for me overall, and I did find it very rewarding in the end.

You seem like the type that enjoys classic mystery a lot more than I do, which is nice to see of course. I consider Umineko to be a subversion of that genre, although also it's a loving ode to it. Unrelated but you might like this video, it's a good watch

https://youtu.be/k-vn1aW424w?si=c9-IYl6uz6QpRWQp

I'm glad to see more trans fan enter into this general, we're finally healing

>>45999288
Look at her masculine shoulders, It's obvious she was born male but thanks to growing up in an healthy and accepting environment she is able to dress in whatever she feels most confrontable in

I'll be honest, I want to bury my face in Shannon's tits.
I probably wouldn't, but they look soft.

I think it's safe to assume it doesn't matter what gender Yasu was born with but that we accept and love the person she is today

>>45999375
Sayo would be easily 10/10 for me if she actually had tits

Good thread

Lmaooooo get fucked chud

>>45999396
Shush now. We can work on her breast envy complex together. Until then she can remain oblivious to the fact that we know.

>>45999375
>>45999396
>>45999436
Disgusting tranny she will never be a real woman

Stop being Transphobic it isn't funny nor is it allowed here.

>>45999433
Battlerharem is the only known cure for acute shitter exposure

>>45999473
This. I hope the jannies take care of his post soon.

Somebody PLEASE start posting Higurashi I'm getting Umifag fatigue

>>45999420
Strange how you never see Higurashi fans making fan art like this, Just Umineko and Ciconia fans

Imagine if all niggers died. Nobody would ever spam this general with the same boring falseflags.

>>45999586
Only people that would be left here would be HiguGODS though LMAO, I have yet to meet an umirat that wasn't a dirty subhuman shitskin mumbling about how Umineko is a masterpiece because their subhuman brains can't see how garbage it is

>>45999607
You are a brown south american nigger rat

>>45999323
>I consider Umineko to be a subversion of that genre, although also it's a loving ode to it.
That's what I was sold going into Umineko, that it would be a loving homage to the golden age of murder mystery. Sadly, what I found was a writer that completely shits over the legacy of the golden age. You can read reasons why here:
>>45996745
>>45998399
>>45998584

As for the video: it felt increadibly self-serving with very little substance; they're not exactly a demanding reader if they just get swept up in the flow of things without looking back to reflex on the mystery, regardless of how good the story was. If he had, he'd have the mockery and chicanery present. I guess it's possible that he did examine the case but somehow liked them? Given that not even Ryukishi likes the idea of examining the first 4 cases, it's not hard to see why. I'd like to modify Erika's quote to accurately sum up how I feel: Because of love, you end up forgetting things that don't even exist (Chapter 1-4 cases).

>>45999625
>projecting
Sorry jose de guzman but I will always be a proud AMERICAN Rika would take one look at you and be appalled at how all her fans are brown and obese

>>45999580
>Umineko and Circonia fans
>fans
>""""""""""""""fans"""""""""""""""
I don't know anon, making artwork to push a totally unrelated political stance seems more like the work of a subversive with nothing better to do with his or her life than to push an agenda onto every piece of media someone may hold dear.
But what do I know.

>>45999645
There's a reason why Umineko and ciconia draws in these types of crowd umisister

>>45999645
>umisister
Ew.

>>45999247
>90%
Make that 100%.
Incidentally, a certain Shitokofag discord admin just woke up recently.
Make of that what you will.

>>45999756
German cuck hands typed this post

>>45999756
>Shitokotard
>making absolutely horrendous posts and never being genuine
You can't name a more common occurence.
That girl was made to attract the most brain-rotten cucks, and it only got worse over time.

>New IP
Samefagging-san...

>>45999791
What do you expect of people who read a tale filled with beautiful, pure young girls, and deliberately simp for the ONE used goods that was raped by her uncle?
Literally worse than wormfags.

>>45999804
>>45999791
>>45999756
All the same person BTW also canonically the one girl confirmed to not be used goods, What being german does to a mofo...

>>45999804
True enough, she's the girl for ironic contrarians to latch onto. Ironic considering that her "fan"base was nigh nonexistent before SotsuGou brought in a wave of tourists from newf/a/ggot boards.

>>45999816
This is after he hasn't seen her in one whole year and doesn't know about Shitoko's development.
Tatarigoroshi explicitly showed her youthful bosom to make this connection obvious for even the densest retards.

Reminder that Rika is THE newf/a/g girl, you don't even have to read or watch the anime to know who that blue skank is. To become a fan of Satoko you have to read the VN and see how pure and strong her soul really is compared to her shitty fucking friends, making her fans the TRUE fans of Higurashi compared to the blue shitstain every redditor knows and memes about because she's le goofy XD
>>45999852
And yet her sprite has NOT changed at all from her 1982 design to her 1983 design, Why? Because she looks the exact same as she did then as she does now. You're self-projecting cuck fetish will be the death of you faggot now take this rope and wrap it around your neck

>one burger waking up and spamming tranny shit / Shitoko is all it takes to kill the thread
Please rangeban America.

>Umicord raids the thread with their twitter legion and a few posts of the angel Satoko is enough to drive those vile foul demons away
True love always wins.

>>45999580
>Ciconia fans
[confused cat looking around the room]

>>45998584
>Knox commandments
Oh god, yeah, he should just never have brought that up, or at least never implied he actually followed it rather than just characters trying to use it to probe Beatrice's stories. And don't even get me started on Dine's rules.
I feel like a lot of people's problems with the question arcs feeling unnecessary would have been addressed if the Shkanon solution had actually been PROPERLY foreshadowed within them. Instead they feel just entirely unrelated, and the solution is just some shit Ryukishi insists upon afterwards

I'll look into Sekimeiya. I'm down to read pretty much anything as long as it's actually good lol

>>45999626
>subversion
That's the sort of this that gets people just declaring Umineko "metashit". "Oh it's not an incoherent dumpsterfire it's a ~subversion~ you're just not smart enough you just don't get it" yeah it's a subversion of my expectation that media should be at least somewhat competently planned and written, you sure got me

>>45999921
I think he really feared the solution being too obvious. Even with things as they are I remember discussions around episode 5 were mostly about people -hoping- Shkanon was wrong. That's really the main reason the theory wasn't more dominant, but didn't like it.

>all this samefag shit from shitcord
umifag is higufag all the same shit from /07/thcord.

>>45999921
Shkanon is pretty damn blatant in 2. I'm actually confused how someone could read 2 and not understand that "subtext." I guess if you wanted to reject the obvious answer in favor of one you thought was better, but Occam's Razor ended up landing.

>>45999921
I said that a subversion is what I consider it to be, I don't state what I think as fact, nor do I intend to sound condescending because I like it and you don't. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion/interpretation of a work.

>>45999644
>>45999660
>>45999671
>>45999756
>>45999645
>>45999778
>>45999799
>>45999804
>>45999816
>>45999830
>>45999852
>>45999861
>>45999893
>>45999870
/07/thcord everyone. i know i am me though.

>>45999966
I can see that, but that also feels like a mark against him. A solution that's possible to reach isn't a failure, it means you've constructed a (somewhat) internally coherent narrative that feels like it all fits. Thinking you can create a coherent solvable-yet-unsolvable mystery feels like hubris and just cluelessness about how the mystery genre even functions.
Unless of course the solution is so bad people can see it coming and are hoping it's not the case, lol. Funny thing is, he could have pivoted to some alternate Shkanon where they aren't the same person but have some other identity entanglement, and people really wouldn't have seen it coming because they were so caught up with single-person Shkanon. But he insisted on sticking to the most extreme and absurd version of it even though people had seen it coming and were dreading it, then didn't fully commit to it despite forcing it down the audience's throats in ep 6, then outright said it anyway in the manga but failed to actually explain it, just insisted upon it alongside scenes of Shkanon's emotional distress to gaslight the audience into thinking they were reading something deap and meeningful. Oh don't think about how this would have worked logically, think of how emotional Shannon would have been while leading this double life! What a shitshow lmao.

>>46000028
It really isn't though. And I'm not sure how "random cliffbaby uneducated servant leading an elaborate double life and nobody notices" is the simplest explanation.

>>46000028
But the thinking was not yet laid out to allow that conclusion. In 2 it's not yet established that you can't trust what you see to be what happened.

>>45999893
then why doo you complain if you all you do is discuss umi yourself? stop using higurashi for your falseflags and flame wars. psychopath umishitter and >>45999861 stop shitflinging between same universe character and stop starting flame wars between fans like a total piece of shit that you are.

>>46000011
>>46000055
>>46000100
>dubs every post
i think the world is trying to tell me something
am i going to achieve enlightenment?

anyone who is literate read both vns anyways

>>46000090
>but I ate breakfast today
Umineko is seriously not that hard. No, the rules weren't spelled out, and the accomplice lies bit is straight up bullshit, but Shannon talking to "Beatrice" and "Kanon-kun" is obviously her talking to herself.

>>46000100
Shut the fuck up Rikafag.

>>46000153
>passive aggressive shitpost
from the same anon right? Rat? am i correct?

>>45999870
It's telling how the thread completely quiets down with Shitokospam/tranny shitposting once he's busy somewhere else.
Sad to think that such an existence is real.

>>46000170
>passive aggressive
Nothing I said was passive rikafag shut the fuck up

>>46000175
It'd be a lot less obvious if it wasn't the same images all the time.
I swear spamposters think sane people have the memory of a goldfish.

>>46000176
then you're a buttmad loser and now you will start commencing a massive raid with shitposts because you got blown away again?

Soooooo Satoko won!

go back to /a/ where youre posting right now with your gaylord shitsugou shitcord frens>>>/a/262524178

>>46000213
Yes she did!
The prize is getting molested

>>46000213
OOHOHOHOHO!

>>46000150
It's obvious only in hindside; you have far too many things to think about at that time to truly consider Kanon's and Shannon's connection, such as if magic is real. It's also disingenuous to say It's obvious given how many people real the whole series without realising it. They needed a fucking manga to explain it, and even then, some people refuse to accept the canon answer. Hardly obvious, but greal job if you figured it out then!

he's unhinged and becoming annoying because he's an internet addict.

>>45999607
The way you post and type i imagine you fat and ugly, pretending to be a smug little girl irl and it's tiresome. You're pure rancid

>>46000281
>mad I called him fat and brown
LOL

i am a true umihater unlike this rat falseflagging lapring as a umihater

and it's always the same posts. i do believe he's fat and ugly which is sad for him. at least i can reflect my on his posts and know that i will never be a sad being like him.

>>46000290
thinking about cucked shit again?

I remember reading somewhere that Ryukishi worked on Higurashi closely with his parents. Are there any interviews where he talked about his work process?

>>46000318
Rika won.

shitokofag aka. rat is a lolcow

>>46000496
She did, a literal kiseki win. tomato is a rikafan? but why did he make more shitoko fanservices in the manga and still made jk Rika ugly and without any fanservices besides the first part.........

>>46000150
>is obviously her talking to herself.
lmao no it just fucking isn't. the only thing shkanontrice about that whole flashback is that all three of them are there. you could interpret it as kanon getting pissed off at shannon's interpretation of beatrice because the real beatrice is himself (as seen with maria once we get to the island). Heck that almost makes more sense; the flashback ends with jessica crying over kanon and kinzo crying over beatrice, but shannon and george furthering their relationship, implying a parallel between kanon and beatrice that shannon isn't included in.

>>46000710
You don't need to Ryukishipost with 200 words just to say "I'm a retard."

>>46000573
I think he was just a regular fan, doing the best he can, trying to make everyone happy.

>>46001006
Interesting that he wasn't originally meant to handle the answer arcs. I guess they were originally planning to start a Sotsu manga before the end of the Gou manga, but then he convinced someone to keep going with him.

>>46000295
>>46000318
>>46000335
>>46000496
>>46000507
>>46000573
What broke the rikafag to turn him into this?

>>46001100

>>45999227
>When there is still no advance reproductive technology for these ideologies to be truly accepted.
Coming never due to Japan creative bankruptcy.

>>46001006
But sadly, not enough for the culture war as it to come I afraid...

>>46001100
holy rat spammer

>>45989720
No

How do we stop her?

>>45997693
I don't like boys

>>46002265
Neither do I
>>45997693
Yes

>>45999288
Reinhard, is that you?

>>46002149
That's just Miyao

>>45997693
She did nothing wrong.

>>45985636
Keeping looking at small towns in Akita prefecture on Google maps because I don't want anyone else to tell me the answer to the epitaph. It looks like "sweetfish river" being literally named ayu river was was too optimistic of me. I've heard you can solve it just by the second page with english only but that feels like a dead end. I also can't read any of this thread because it's probably laden with spoilers...

>>46003875
>I've heard you can solve it just by the second page with english
That's bullshit, you can't solve the epitaph as an EOP without intricate knowledge of eastern asian geography and wordplays.
But don't fret it, you don't *need* to solve the epitaph yourself.

>>46003875
The tie is the sweetfish river
The hometown is her breasts
The village is her breasts too
The shore is the end of the tie which points to her vagina.
Beatrice is the key. You understand?

>>46003875
Taiwan.

>>46003916
KINOOOO

I solved the epitaph.
Went completely the wrong direction and used the wrong clues to make it to the place but I got there. I would've solved it by luck.

>>46004218

>>46004247
>>46004218
samefag freak

>>46004356
Yes. I love my piggy queen in all sizes and shapes

Rika is better and she has only one shape meaning she doesn't even trying to win

>>46004419
Let's all get along.

48 posts since the last good post in this thread.

i've seen rat getting deleted on /a/ btw and he's posting on /v/ right now and soon he will spam his cuck fetish in here again.

what's the go-to version of Higurashi for someone playing through linux? is this the one? and then i just update with the latest 7th mod files? https://nyaa.si/view/1315370

Sperg won.

>>46005788
07th mod version just werks with wine.

>>46005955
is the one i've linked the "correct" version?

>>46005996
Yup, but the console arcs are outdated. It's a minor pain to update them, if you care, but I don't think there's a complete torrent out there. It's missing the Hanyuu lore arc, which I particularly enjoyed.

>>46006020
I've only played the switch Higurashi until now, this isn't even for me, it's for someone I know whos asking me what version to get.

when you say the console arcs are outdated, do you mean in terms of translation accuracy?

and when i get that torrent, do i get to choose between console and PC?

>>46006057
I mean some of the console arcs weren't translated yet, so they aren't there at all. This is a mod of the PC version that adds console assets, so it's strictly PC.

>leave for half a week
>come back and the thread's still full of shit bait
Please change.

>>46007098
>Why haven't things gotten better in 3 days
it's been like this for years

I miss sperg

>>46007606
Said no one

>>46007633
But I just said it

The reason why these threads are so awful is because the threads are on /jp/.
This board is probably filled with more newfags and reddit cancer than /v/ at this point, ever since Touhou and animefaggotry blew up and became mainstream this board has been in rapid, steady decline. These threads are simply a perfect representation of this.
If /07/ was on any other smaller, less normalfag raped board, the threads would be much better. Oh well.

>>46007649
Go ahead then, use the green quote!
You can't can you? Remember, quoting yourself is not valid!!

>>46007701
It is the same 2-3 people shitting up every single thread for years, no amount of newfaggotry could ruin this general more than they do

The biggest butt of all hinamizawa, Rika

The goat thing was to scapegoat detractors, full stop. Goat, scapegoat. It's in the name. R07 took a heaping dump on mysteryfags in Chiru, and that's why the ending with the absurd intellectual rapist strawman character is the mystery ending.

R07 is good but he doesn't always hit.

>>46009896
I don't think that works in Japanese anon.
Umi has some pretty obvious western imagery but it's still a japanese game no matter how you slice it.

>>46010234
If you're borrowing english terms like "devil's proof", it's not a stretch to assume you can borrow the term "scapegoat."

Will this freak ever stop >>>/v/665958992

I'm still convinced Ryukishi changed the solution somewhere along the way, probably around ep 5-6.

>>46010617
When is Higu Rei over yet?

>>46011035
I doubt it. I think the problems fall down entirely to him not intending to unveil the catbox from the start, so he never wrote an actual detailed account on how things should happen behind the scenes. He only had vague ideas and core parts, which is why it makes for good emotional fodder, but falls apart when you think about it.

It's a similar problem you quickly run into when you consider Rika has looped for a century, not just the arcs we read. There's some basic stuff the story just overlooks in order to work since R07 never intended to actually write about them.

R07 really needs to actually write rather than leave it as vague ideas, otherwise we end up with disaster - See also all of Gou/Sotsu, which is what you get when you have an entire story on this plane of vague ideas, without R07 actually sitting down and writing step by step how everything plays out. He clearly isn't critical of his concepts enough in this stage, only when actually sitting down to write them as scripts.

>>46011077
At least two more volumes (one for a cover with each parent/child duo), maybe 3 volumes left (If there's a final cover with something else), so it should take a while...

>>46011092
The supposed idea he threw out where Hanyuu was more malicious in her attempt to stop Rika from solving mysteries and escaping would have worked well there.

>>46011092
I can kinda see that too. I doubt the hasty rewriting of ep 3 and everything beyond that helped either, a lot of stuff that should be important to the solution just ends up being hastily thrown in there and not given much attention (eg the beach scene where Shannon mentions the promise once, barely seems to care and then literally vanishes from the conversation). There was probably additional foreshadowing and setup that was just lost entirely. But him changing the solution despite insisting the solution was there from the start is funnier.

It's near impossible for me to believe Shkanon wasn't planned from the start. The sheer amount of foreshadowing and hinting towards it in the question arcs is crazy in hindsight

>>46011247
It obviously was the solution from the start. People figured it out as early as episode 2.

>>46001100
Higurashi Gou brought yurifags attention and yurifags are pedos

>>45999375
>I probably wouldn't
Really, anon? What about now?

Could Toujirou solve the Epitath?

>>46011247
>>46011273
It is hard to imagine it not being the case but oddly enough, it feels somewhat less obvious and intended as you reach the end. Why? Well, it's odd that Ryukishi doesn't directly address it, just alluding and (strongly) hinting towards it. Anyone actually engaging with the story would have reached the conclusion that Shannon is also Kanon but people second guess themselves because: "well if it's so obvious, why wouldn't he reveal it? Is my thinking wrong; have I missed something?"
I honestly think he was extremely ashamed of the solutions to the question arc murder mysteries. Why else would you leave a 100+ hour story so vague, whilst also doing his best to vilify those seeking answers? I believe the backlash was so severe that he NEEDED to provide the solutions, which so happened to be through the manga.

>>46013317
I don't agree, I never really got the impression that he was ashamed or anything. Original EP8 reception and speculation about how R07 feels aside, the fact that it was kept vague is because to me, an absolute answer isn't what Umineko is about. There's a solution that the author (R07/Sayo) clearly put there to be seen, but reaching it requires you to come to understand Sayo and her struggle, just like Battler did, it's how Umineko self-demonstrates its message. The answer to how it was done was never really the point, at least not to me, but keeping things vague allows you to theorize and think until you come to your own truth about the matter, whether you agree with that way of thinking is up to you but I enjoy it. I originally never liked the manga revealing the answers because I felt it went against the whole theme, and you're right it was probably made in response to backlash, but nowadays I don't think so anymore, it's all in all a more accessible work because it's not always for a lack of love that someone is unable to reach the truth. It maintains its core message which is what's important, to me at least, I've written abt it here before

Rikkkaaaa

>>46014449
rikacuck fail

Nearly a full day without schizoposting ruining everything?
Someone buy a lottery ticket!

Gorgeous Ange

>>46013317
>>46013835
He has interviews explicitly talking about it. He thought the story was more fun if you could reach the answer by yourself, and if you couldn't then even explaining it, you wouldn't get the same feeling, and it'd just hurt the sense of satisfaction of other people.

I think he overlooked how by doing this he couldn't actually address a lot of the emotional core of the Yasu side, or even Ange herself and the impact the truth has on her - since the reader isn't allowed to see the truth she learned and that momentarily breaks her - which left many readers unsatisfied.

>>46014715
Ah, I didn't know that, I suppose that explains why he claims the manga to be the better version, which I agree with these days even if I prefer the VN personally. I always thought that people who followed Umineko along as it was being written were mad at EP8 because it simply just wasn't really what was ''promised'' in a sense, not because the chapter itself was a badly written one. Considering Umineko was marketed as a mystery novel, but then it denies the conventions of a classic mystery story by being more than just that and taking many liberties with the rules of classic mystery. Reading it nowadays, it's probably a lot easier to judge it on its own merit which is why I think it receives a lot more praise, but at the time, I can imagine feeling really cheated even if the conclusion to the story was still a good one for those that agree with its message IMO.

>>46012783
He could probably just pluck the answer straight out of Genji's mind. And if that doesn't work, the Order of the Wisteria could easily procure any information he'd need to solve the riddle.

>>46014715
>he couldn't actually address a lot of the emotional core of the Yasu side
This is one of the big issues I have with the latter half of Chiru, as by sidestepping everything to do with the 'truth' of Sayo Ryukishi couldn't give satisfying answers to several problems the truth would provoke. George and Jessica's having separate versions of a 'diluted' Sayo in the Golden Land, for instance, wounds the idea that they'd "accept" her fully. After all, in a fantasy world after death, where they could ALL have their own proper versions of the woman they love, Jessica and George instead just get the persona she showed to them for all intents and purposes. The story can't fully get into that detail however, because to do so would expose the 'mystery' of Sayo to those who couldn't figure it out.
As a whole, the climax to several character's arcs and their stories can't be properly shown or provided thanks to what Ryukishi was attempting at the time, and that becomes immediately obvious when those plot threads actually get addressed in the manga since that's when Ryukishi was alright with those details actually being shown as concrete fact now. That's not to say they're satisfying answers exactly, but at least we got shit like Battler actually talking to Shannon about their past as if she's actually also Sayo in some regards and not just some lousy copy.

Don't click this.
https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/115736479

>>46015051
jokes on you i already saw that shit when i checked pixiv this morning

>>46015051
Ok. I won't.

>>46014465
What do you want

Rika save

Perfection exists

>>46014449
>>46014465
The classic

Damn, just look at this elite bitch

>>46013317
>"well if it's so obvious, why wouldn't he reveal it?
also if it's so obvious why has nobody else in-story noticed it lol

>>46016008
you know exactly what that anon meant don't be a dumbass and try and link it to your perpetual seething

>>46015765
*bitch boy

>>46016092
Kill yourself

can i use 07th mod to make PC higurashi have the same text-box as the Switch version?

>>46003916
Ass is hometown though.

>>46015765
I fucking love evil women.

>>46016759
Beatrice was the best as evil and as Battler`s adversary

>>46016759
I love fucking evil woman.

>>46017050
Lambda isn't evil, Lambda is cute

>>46017082
she's evil from a certain point of view

>>46017082
>>46017089
She's evil when she doesn't pamper me, give me a lap pillow, stroke my hair, shower me with love and affection and give me sweets.

>>46017082

>>46017095
Bern...

>>46017082
Without Aurora, Lamba is unquestionably the big bad of Higu and Umi.

>>46017100
Making Bernkastel suffer is a morally upright action, though.

>>46017095
Battler...

>>46017095
Maria...

>>46017111
yeah satok is absolutely the big bad of og higurashi

>>46017449
Lambda isn't Shitoko, moron.

>>46017449
Most would say Takano, but it's understandable if you only watched the DEENime.

>>46017478
stop replying to a fbfag

now i understand the sudden blonde mass posting, they react again those animeonlines.

>>46017478
tell that to ryukishi lmao

>>46015065
so you got to see it twice?

>>46017129
Making Bern suffer by impregnating her~!!

>>46016759
Evil men*

>>46019793
Unlike Beato, you will never be a woman.

>>46019796
Beatrice isn't real, and yasu has been confirmed to be a biological male. Read the VN before posting again.

>>46019815
>lying
This is why no one respects you "people".

>>46019815
Not just the VN too, the manga goes out of its way to show that Yasu wasn't born a girl. The length these people will go to to keep their headcanons is pretty sad

>>46019833
Shitokofag woke up to defend his headcanon. Don't mind him, he's still mindbroken over Meguri.

>>46019886
kek

>>46019793
>>46019815
>>46019853
Is this true? I never finished the VN but always wondered why trannies loved it so much

>>46019919
Obviously not. Also stop replying to yourself, rat.

>>46019853
No it doesn't

>>46019919
Yeah it's canon
Ignore schizos like >>46019942
They get really upset when someone mentions the truth.

>>46019919
No.

>>46019919
unfortunately

I remember a touching animation where it retold EP2 from the perspective of Rosa and Maria. Does anyone remember this? Have a link? This was many years old.

Why are Shitokotrannies so obsessed with pretending that Beatrice is a man when they've been disproven time and again?
If you want a self insert, there's plenty of other media for you.

>>46019973 (Me)
I'm trans btw, thought I should mention that

>>46019973
He didn't read the VN and hates that Umineko is more popular than higurashi, so he's been spamming this website for a couple of years already.

>>46013317
>It is hard to imagine it not being the case but oddly enough, it feels somewhat less obvious and intended as you reach the end.
That's an interesting observation. Heck, even if you don't take the ep 1-2 stuff as "they're literally the same person" and instead they're just thematically important somehow or other, it feels like their relevance falls off in ep 3-5 when it really shouldn't. And then you hit ep6 where it's so hamhanded and blunt while still being coy and it comes off like the author is punking you, but no he's serious.

>>46019973
>>46019982
Reminder that this is the kind of person who shitposts about Beatrice and Satoko here.

i liked the part in the manga where shannon was all like "oh boo hoo anyone who looked at my face would think i was a boy" when no one had ever commented on that, ever

>>46019991
Rangeban America already.

>>46020000
Quads of absolute truth.

>>46020000
DO IT, please

>>46019991
BASED

>>46020000
If America was globally rangebanned, tranny and BBC shitposting would be reduced by 99%. So mods will never do it.

>>46019991
I have yet to meet a Satoko poster that wasn't based fuck umifags

>>46020142
>>46020150
stop talking about yourself, rat

>>46019919
Yes it is sadly but it really isn't that important so just ignore the tranny stuff and focused on the rest of this amazing story

>>46019973
>>46019991
Unsurprisingly, at the same time an early Shitoko thread was made. He's not even trying to be subtle about it anymore.

>>46019919
Yasu was confirmed to be born male about as much as the secret relationship between K1 and Satoko was confirmed. In short, it wasn't! The idiots who say this are just persistent trolls who are having a hard time dealing with the current state of affairs and are going a little nuts. By the way, do you seriously consider such claims from these people engrossed in their own illusory beliefs as fact without the slightest shred of actual thought as to why this particular variety of people would claim such a thing about a fictional character they insert themselves into for the purpose of their own self-affirmation? It is truly a mystery why confused people would want to confuse less informed people to create a narrative that reinforces their own misconceptions. These deliberate fallacies can be disproved with certainty by reading Umineko to the end, otherwise you will have to rely on information conveyed by others, and since we live in an age of information warfare, you should take all absolute opinions without plausible arguments with a grain of salt.

>>46021009
>seriously replying to a shitoko falseflag

>>46021009
>By the way, do you seriously consider such claims from these people engrossed in their own illusory beliefs as fact
He literally just replied to himself a couple of times. There are no newfags
left here who haven't read either Higurashi or Umineko, or would actively ask for spoilers.

>>46021035
>who haven't read either Higurashi or Umineko
rikafag

>>46021009
>New IP
Sup Mindbroken german cuck still blaming the Umineko tranny shit on me eh? Your cuck fetish will never be accepted here bant cuck spammer, you LOST.
True love WON.

>>46021198
>True love WON.
Yes, satoko x teppei won

>>46017095
George...

>>46017095
Duranoru...

>>46021198
>>46021236
>>46023453
>>46021035
>>46021033
>>46021009
>>46020674
>>46019991
>>46020003
>>46020000
>>46020142
kill yourself

Rika is better and won

will won

>>46026222
WIll won so fucking hard it`s not even funny