/jp/ - Otaku Culture

What did Ange see? I sort of agree with the Sakutaro plush, either that it was actually bought somewhere else or that perhaps Rosa made another, or something along those lines. However, the same chapter that my picture comes from, Ange and Sakutaro are talking (thank you kind Anon that upload the text files):
"What can I do to revive you in Maria onee-chan's world? If I learn that method, I'll be able to save Onee-chan. ......That is the method of atonement imposed upon me. What can be done to revive Sakutarou?"
『......To Maria, my vessel had a very vital significance......』
"The vessel. ......In other words, if we could revive the lion stuffed animal..."
『But............Mama Rosa made my stuffed animal herself, so only Mama Rosa can make it......』 .

They keep saying that only Rosa can make it, but Ange does say "I'm sure that on Rokkenjima, ......I'll be able to be reunited with Maria onee-chan. And, ......no matter what, I will revive the you that's inside Onee-chan, and let you be reunited."
It is possible that she remade Sakutaro herself. She seems set on reviving Sakutaro for Maria before ever seeing whatever is inside the boat captain's house.

Finally, who is Amakusa? I understand that it seems that he is indeed Battler, but reading through again, I got to this scene in the picture, and I couldn't help but think of Beatrice. And then, at the end of Episode 3, it seems that only Battler and Jessica (and Eva) could possibly have survived.

The theory that Amakusa is Jessica is far-fetched, I grant you (Indeed, we could still argue that Amakusa is Battler, wishing to be accepted at the true Battler for instance). In my theory topic tomorrow, I also want to avoid just creating a redux of Moontrice. However, this did get me thinking. Jessica always talks like a boy. What if that was all a hint that Jessica is actually male?

>>4550547

>『But............Mama Rosa made my stuffed animal herself, so only Mama Rosa can make it......』 .

It's possible that the Sakutarou given to Maria was hand-made, but it's never stated what she did with the designs. "Making" is vague. The person who built the plans can be said as "making" it, and a wholly different person working with said plans would merely be "copying" it.

Rosa sold the sakutarou designs to a toy company, promptly flops, forgotten sakutarou in the boat captain's place.

I hope people will talk of theories about Kinzo raping everyone in every way possible at every time for every reason.

>Finally, who is Amakusa?

Possibly the "true Battler"/the one who Asumu gave birth to.

There are a few other questions about the episodes that I have and can think of off hand. For instance, Episode 2, Rosa receives a letter from Beatrice at the same time the Maria receives her letter. This letter of Rosa's is never brought up again. What's inside of it? Is it important?

Is it possible to solve the puzzle to the number 07151129?

In episode 3, Kyrie asks Maria specifically what Beatrice looked like. We can somewhat assume then that Kyrie, Nanjo, and all the cousins should know who Beatrice is; at least the Beatrice Maria saw. Does this influence Kyrie's actions later in the episode? Or the cousins?

>>4550597
> Is it possible to solve the puzzle to the number 07151129?
I like the Hachijou Touya = Ushiromiya Asumu theory, personally.

>>4550580
I thought that Beatrice said that one was dead near the end of 4?

>>4550580
Would be funny because of his hair color.


Anyway, does someone have a link to the interview where Ryukishi says that Erika is a "good girl"?

>>4550562
This is possible, yes, but what I was saying is that Ange seems intent on reviving Sakutaro for Maria when she gets to the island. As if she already has a way planned out, before she sees whatever it is. Whether she bought another one or made it herself, Sakutaro is not "what she sees" at the boat captain's house.

>>4550606
I don't think that he said that she was a good girl, he said that she's misunderstood. Which I guess is what was being implied when Lambda told Erika that if Erika had any choice in the matter she wouldn't be Bern's furniture.

>It is possible that she remade Sakutaro herself. She seems set on reviving Sakutaro for Maria before ever seeing whatever is inside the boat captain's house.

Or Sakutaro wasn't ripped apart in the first place. After seeing what what happens with everyone's initial recollections of events and diary entries (thanks Natsuhi & Erika), there's maybe a possibility that Maria's interpretation was exaggerated.

Amakusa might have some relation to the Sumedera family. Chances of him being Jessica or Battler is kinda out there..
Amakusa was said to know his parents, at least, that's what Ange said in one of the boat scenes.

>>4550619

He said that Erika has the potential to be good, but she's just really bad at choosing her words.

>>4550597
>This letter of Rosa's is never brought up again. What's inside of it? Is it important?

The letter Rosa received was suppose to be read to the siblings, but she never did. Beatrice told her to read at dinner, but I guess the circumstances changed. It's the one left on the table of the chapel.

>>4550619
Well, it is palso possible, I have never see this interview myself, but everyone talk about it when the subject comes to Erika, and I have never seen this interview myself, so...

>>4550601
Does that use the number? It was a fairly convoluted proof, if I remember, although it made sense.

Mainly, it seems that the numbers should be able to be used on their own. That may be the case with what you are talking about.

>>4550606
I agree, the hair color certainly does seem to link him to the Kyrie's family.

>If you assume that there was a boiler explosion, or a bomb

I'm not even sure where this comes from. The only "clue" people seem to tout is "small golden land" noted in George's death profile in EP 3, even though after EP 4, its pretty obvious that isn't what that references to.

The numeric code unlocks a safe where money is given to a bunch of people who didn't go to the island. The epitath speaks of finding a golden land. The code opens up a small golden land. The money in the safe wasn't as big as the amount of gold of Rokkenjima, and therefore "small". Therefore, Golden Land =/= an explosion.

>>4550629
Forgot to add: George said there was something written on it. "To those who remain."
The contents of the letter suggested that this was a preemptive attempt to have the family start solving the epitaph's riddle.

>>4550645
Erm... regardless of the importance of the code in this respect, an explosion did occur. That's proven in the Episode 6 post-character TIPS. Could somebody post the translated version of Erika's, please?

>>4550656
just that, she died in the Rokkenjima explosion incident

>>4550656
>Implying I care about EP 6 when right now its moonrunes and speculation.

At the moment i'm not going to trust your interpretation.

>>4550645
The idea is mainly grounded in Episode 4. There is some reason why everyone, including the police, said that it was an "unfortunate accident", rather than "oh hey there were murder victims everywhere." Also only a single stake survived the accident. Also that Eva sold all the books from Kuwadorian only, that they "survived the unfortunate accident."

I think another question is, how did Eva even get to Kuwadorian? I don't think it's the same passage as the gold was found, since otherwise we would have Genji, Nanjo, and probably Kumasawa knowing where the gold is. It is confirmed that Genji and Nanjo knew the passage to Kuwadorian, and Kumasawa would know if she is, in fact, the Virgilia shown in the past.

>>4550645
I still have difficulties to accept the golden land in a litteral sense, or in the sense => explosion. Mainly because of ep4, when Ange come into Beato and Maria's golden land, and everything that follow.

>>4550666
It's not an interpretation. The translation of Erika's character TIP says "Rokkenjima explosion incident". That's pretty damn clear.

>>4550645
But it's also implied that the person who wrote it on the doors was the same person who sent out the wine bottle message, and the letters. The message and letters have the same handwriting that can also be found on that page of Maria's journal.

>>4550682
So he just handed the conclusion over?
Of the tips of the phantasm?

>>4550675
Then the question for me is: how can Ange not knowing anything about that? If it was of the TV, it should have been clear enough for everyone, and especially for Ange who had inquiried about it.

>>4550682
>>4550678
>>4550675
>>4550666
>>4550659
>>4550656
>>4550645
Do note that it's more likely to have been a boiler explosion than a bomb explosion. Episode 1 states that there have been problems with the boiler previously, so that can be taken as a clue.

>>4550682
It's an interpretation. Since when the tips are always right, and tell the truth? moreover the word explosion itself can have multiples senses as well..

So starting right at the beginning then, how about that uuh what's it called, warehouse out away from the mansion.

I'm thinking it's easy for that magic circle to have been sprayed there via a stencil. It's fast and efficient, although I don't know much about stencil grafitti.

>>4550688
We still don't know what caused the explosion. It could have been a bomb, it could have been the boiler, it even have been both. And it doesn't tell us what happened before the explosion.

>>4550682
So you're implying that the culprit is an explosion, then.

>>4550704
Well then, what's your explanation for the bodies always being destroyed beyond recognition (except for Maria's jaw in Episode 1), why Eva was able to survive post-Episode 3 by being in Kuwadorian, how Battler was killed at the end of Episode 4, and why the incident is referred to as an accident in the scenes in the future?

>>4550682

The explosion seems a little abnormal though. If we use the information gathered by Ange from the results of EP3: there were no bodies accounted for and since some bodies weren't inside the mansion at the time, the range the explosion covers is immense.

No body parts besides Maria's jawbone was found and the other members were listed as missing. So..what kind of explosion can be dismissed as a mere accident and completely destroy body remains? Even in present day explosions or bombings you'll find some appendage.

>>4550713
An explosion is just an event. It may have happened on its own, if it was just the boiler randomly exploding, or it may have been triggered by something.

>>4550689
Ange actually seems to know a lot more than she tells the reader. She even mentions a magazine article that claims to have solved the mysterious accident. And she also does not go to the mansion when she arrives at Rokkenjima.

There are a lot of things that both Ange and Battler should know that are held back from the reader. Again, Episode 3, piece Battler should know who the Beatrice that Maria met.

>>4550711
Confirming it this way, after you send the angsty burger ON SITE of all things?
Weak.

>>4550706
I know a lot about painting and they always make a point to say that the paint used for the magic circles looks "Thick and Ropey". Which is an effect you can't get from spray paint which is made to look even and smooth.

>>4550706
Well, the leading theory, if I recall correctly, is that the red paint like substance is that red fruit young Krauss eats in front of Natsuhi in EP5.

Krauss does state that Kinzo used to love the things, meaning they should be on the island, or something.

>>4550727
So you're saying the boiler room explodes. What would this prove, exactly?

>>4550731
Can that stuff congeal? >>4550730 states that the paintlike substance was "thick and ropey", which corresponds with what I remember.

>>4550720
Actually I don't have one, and that's why I am searching, and I am not taking one possibility as an absolute truth. And an accident can be a LOT of things. The real question would be, why would an explosion be reffered as an accident. It was ok in higurashi because they had a reason to cover the truth, but here, in umineko?

>>4550734
Oh my Jesus.

Read the fucking thread.

>>4550740
Well, it's Ryukishi, so we're not really given that much information.

>>4550734
It proves that the games have a specific point that they end at because they literally CAN'T go any longer, as the explosion is a cutoff, maybe?

I dunno, I wasn't trying to prove anything. You're the one who expected me to prove something when I was just talking about the explosion.

>>4550706
Actually, Episode 2 leads me to believe that Shannon and Genji are responsible for most of the magic circles. Instead of copying down the will, they were copying down the magic circles. After all, the magic circles could be found in the books in the study, and Shannon nearly says as much.

I also think there must be another entrance to the warehouse, as that's the only way I can solve Gohda and Kumasawa's deaths in Episode 4. After all, I don't think it's ever called a closed room in red.

>>4550764
Some people theorize that the path to other mansion is in the shed.

>>4550764
While possible, I'd always taken it as implying that Kinzo had dictated a will at some point in the past, before he'd died.

Of course, it's also possible that it's meant to imply both.

The substance could be paint or blood. (If there are small animals on the could be from those.) Using areca nuts, requires a lot of saliva and it probably wouldn't have the same consistency.

>>4550728
she dies in the middle of a fantasy scene. So maybe she was going to go to the mansion after qnad got killed by Kasmi, maybe not. We don't know.

A magazine article?
What does it have to do with an explosion. The same magazine could have said that an army of gay pink elephants killed everyone, ths line wouldn't change.

>>
There are a lot of things that both Ange and Battler should know that are held back from the reader. Again, Episode 3, piece Battler should know who the Beatrice that Maria met.

You're forgetting that it is umineko we're talking about. So even if he "should know", there is a possibility that it is not the truth or that it is specific to ep3.

>>4550807
That looks disgusting.

Instead of thinking about what substance it is, how about the reason it's there in the first place?

The substance is a good thing to think about but why the hell would they do such a thing anyway?

To "direct them to the murder"?

>>4550852
to look like a witch. Well it's a little easy, okay.

Anyway IF I am not rong, in ep 2, the magic circle of the second twilight was not here when Kanon and Genji knocked on the door for the frst time, am i wrong?

>>4550874
wrong*

>>4550874
in ep 1, the second twilight*, sorry ~~

>>4550874
>>4550882
>>4550888
You don't know how to delete a post do you?

Anyways when they initially went to the door it wasn't there. Then I think Kanon went to go get something to cut the chain with, came back, and it was there or something.

>>4550874

Yeah isn't that Natsuhi's room? Or Eva and Hideyoshi's room? My mind is becoming one hell of a fuck today.

One of them had bloody hand prints/clawing on the doorknob and the other had a magic circle on it, though. Not sure which one.

No idea who could've put it there in a 5 minute gap anyway.

>>4550906
The bloody handprints were on Natsuhi's door.

The circle was on the door of the guest room that Eva and Hideyoshi were using.

>>4550906
Genji and Kumasawa had the perfect opportunity to from what I remember.

>>4550906
Kanon and/or Genji were probably lying about the time where the circle was drawn.

In Gohda's TIPS, Genji explains the same thing happened to a female servant that worked there. The servant turned away from a wall few a few seconds, returned, and a circle was drawn there. She later left due to injury or became ill. It's possible that she was threatened or saw something she shouldn't have and left.

>>4550906
Natsuhi's room had bloody hand marks all over it in both Episode 1 and Episode 2. Eva and Hideyoshi's room did not have the circle over it when Kanon and Genji first got there, no, although how reliable that is is uncertain. Battler gets there after the closed room is broken and really doesn't even look at the scene. He stays in the hallway covering his eyes.

Sorry to interject but could someone tell me a little bit about this "Umineko Saturday" thing?

>>4550947
He's the best kind of detective.

I think that the fact that in Ep3 Kyrie, Nanjo, Battler, George and Jessica were probably able to ask Maria about the identity of Beatrice should be pretty important. Maybe that is what caused the first twilight to turn out this way. For example, after the Rosa's story Kyrie announced that the person who gave letter to Maria was Shannon and that influenced the first twilight? Maybe cousins took action instead? Ugh, pointing out the culprit for the first twilight in this game is still tough, even if that's the easiest episode... And I don't want to call out Nanjo for this one.

I've heard something about "if Battler didn't see it, it doesn't interest me"

What's that about?

I have a theory that it would be easier to work out the episodes from back to front.

Like at the end of episode 1 it would be easier to determine who would've killed who since there are less people to choose from.

Then again there could be other people living on Rokkenjima I don't know about, there could be people who I thought died but faked death and aargh.

>>4550972
If Battler don't see it in ep 1-4, we're not certain that is it true. Not a good way of thinking for me, but well.

>>4550764
Wait a minute. Where did they get the key to lock the shed with? Shouldn't it have been back in the mansion?

Or was it already unlocked, and they got a padlock from inside? I can't remember exactly.

>>4551014
There are new locks inside the garden shed. Genji changed the lock that way in EP1.

>>4551006
There are worse ways to interpret the story I suppose.

>>4550992
Well keep in mind that there are a lot of other servants that work there. Whether or not they have any impact on the murders is doubtful, but there are definately other people besides those at the conference that know their way around the island.

Didn't Dlanor say that Knox's rules were more of a guide that a reader could use to solve a mystery rather than restrictions?

>>4551014

IIRC,in the first episode, after Natsuhi locked the door to warehouse Kanon was still able to take pliers from there. That implies that there indeed is another entrance to warehouse.

>>4550992
That's how I've been going about things too. I suspect that many of the later twilights might be chain reaction killings, so the real culprit could only be found by backtracking and figuring out who committed the first twilight murders.

>>4551043
There's a pair of pliers in the boiler room, so I don't think that's necessary.

>>4551043
I thought Kanon got the tools from the boiler room. Remember how the billhook was in there?

>>4550963
If Shannon is in fact Beatrice, one important question should be "Why does she die in the first twilight?" The purpose of Beatrice's game, after all, is directed at Battler, so dying in the first twilight seems like some pretty tough luck.

HowEVER, the possibility I've been considering (tying in with my theory that Nanjo is the killer in that game), is that if Shannon is Beatrice, she's already confirmed that Battler has no memory of the things she's trying make him remember. Image related. So, in that case, she just might not care anymore. Beatrice, whoever she is, certainly doesn't seem to mind dying in Episode 4 after Battler blows her off. Why not in this game as well?

Shannon recruits Nanjo, who was already involved with her scheme, and the two of them kill the rest of the victims, and then she has Nanjo kill her. All he has to do then is lock up the room and put the key back in her pocket when he's examining her the following morning.

>>4550972
Not that it doesn't interest me, it's just that we don't know much about this room at all. We are told it's a closed room, but the lock is already broken before Battler gets there. It would also be nice if Battler checked to be sure that they are dead, but that is said in red in Episode 4 (although not when they died).

What Kanon says happened may have been true. But it still leaves us with other possibilities.

>>4550960
I just said that because I have nothing much to do tomorrow and I have the text files for the first four episodes. I was going to collect all relevant red truths and other information for each twilight of each of the four episodes, as I haven't seen this done yet, and we could go through and try to actively solve each twilight using our information. I also want to exclude ShKanontrice, teatrice, and probably Moontrice and Doubletrice theories, as those are already talked about. The idea is not to say that those are wrong, but to see if we can form alternate theories.

>>4551043
>>4551053
They're bolt cutters you shits.

>>4551037
So basically, isn't it possible that the culprit bashed the lock off, killed Gohda and Kumasawa, and then relocked it with a new padlock?

>>4551043
There's an underground storage room apparently. They mention it again somewhere in EP5 and has the same background as the shed's. It would take them longer than 5 minutes to reach the shed.

>>4551055
It's not the boiler room, although I'm not sure if it's the outside storehouse either. I'll have to find the text, but I can almost positively say that he mentions somewhere not the boiler room.

>>4551068
Gohda might have thought the murderer (someone they trusted) came to release them, so he handed the key through the window back to them. They opened the shed, killed them, put the key back in Gohda's pocket and retrieved a new padlock. Battler really never considered that in his investigation.

>>4551068
Actually, I guess this would be possible. Although bashing it in would more than likely leave some type of mark on the door, as well as shooting it off.

>>4551060
I aprove you, sir.

>>4551071

Ah is that so? Damn you Ryukishi for your laziness.

>>>/rs/You are incompetent.

>>4551060
I approve you, sir.

>>4551087
Did Battler even really look at the door? I just remember him going to the window.

>>4551118
Before meeting with Beatrice on the balcony, he checked through the shed window, and saw both of them hanging, but unable to confirm their death.

After he met with Beato, he went down to the boiler room to retrieve a tool to use on the shed padlock.

>>4551037
Oh, that reminds me. Here's a question.

Whoever set up the first twilights wants to make them look impossible for a human, and they did a pretty good job in EP2 and EP3. But in EP1, rather than making it look impossible, they just put the shed key back in the key box, so there were plenty of available suspects. Why did they flake out in only that instance?

>>4551141
The murderer wanted to cast suspicion onto the servants.

>>4551141
Different killer probably. Chances are it was the same person who was threatening Natsuhi, setting things up so that only someone familiar with the unmarked keys could have locked the shed. This casts obvious suspicion on the servants and family members who live on the island.

>>4550562
>>4550547

I always thought that Rosa made another sakutarou that she left on the boat before going to the island with maria, and after she had come back from the meeting and accomplished whatever her goals were she would give maria the lion for her help and to be a good mama.

Look in easymodo. Notice how all posts containing sage have been deleted?

Butthurt janitor sure is butthurt.

>>4551150
Because of this, I think we can conclude that the mastermind behind the witch illusion and the murderer are definitely not the same person. Otherwise there's a contradiction in motive with the first twilights in EP2 and EP3.

In other words, the killer is basically just jumping in at whatever opportune time, and the illusion mastermind might or might not be done setting up the illusion when that happens, so we see apparently contradictory motives.

>>4551177
Sounds like we've got a conspiracy on our hands.

Battler mentions somewhere that his dad makes a killing by sticking shady shit in contracts that people don't read carefully enough, or something. I imagine that's what the lawsuit is about.

>>4551177

Probably just because those posts are wasting space and being unproductive like your post is

>>4551206
Yeah, Rudolf was being sued for copyright infringement.

Witches did it.

>>4551193
DOUBLETRICE

>>4551177
Reported. Sages have no place in Umineko threads.

>>4551193
>In other words, the killer is basically just jumping in at whatever opportune time, and the illusion mastermind might or might not be done setting up the illusion when that happens, so we see apparently contradictory motives.

Sounds a little like what happened in EP2. Beatrice probably showed the relatives the gold and they acknowledged her as a witch, then someone came along, and killed the adults.

There is only one mastermind, except in episode 3.
Anything else would feel too contrived at this point of time.
The murders of episode 1 flew too smoothly to have some sort of battle of mastermind going on.

I guess about why the key was put back is simple, the murderer didn't want people to look too hard into what happened in the shed.
By putting back the key, the murderer can still be one of the people on the island, so no need to look at the bodies to see if there is no subterfuge going on.

Afterward, the murderer was free to begin his LOOK IT'S A WTICH impossible murders.

>>4551206
It never says what Rudolf's company is. Krauss is in real estate, Hideyoshi is in food service and Rosa is in fashion. Although its possible Rudolf sells some kind of product, if he's being sued for copyright infringement.

>>4551276
I think it's worth noting that Rosa was shady as hell the entire episode. She was the first adult to see piece Beatrice, claimed to know another Beatrice, went to the meeting, claimed to have talked to Kinzo, and never let the others read the letter.

Yet I have doubts that she's the killer.

>>4551324
She is an accomplice of Beatrice.
Everything that is done by the murderer helps Rosa's position as the leader of the party in some way.

>>4551166
I actually thought this as well until yesterday, when I reread this part of Episode 4. But after what Ange says and how she says it, I'm just not sure anymore.

If Ange didn't make a second one, though, I like the theory that Rosa made another one rather than another one being bought at some store.

>>4551141
I had thought about this as "there's a second entrance, and therefore could be entered without knowing of the servants key." While this still leaves the servants as suspect, and therefore breaks the illusion of the witch, it also allows for anyone not familiar with the servants room itself to commit the crime.

Your question is a good question, though. I think leaving the key was a good option, otherwise having it suddenly "disappear" would seem even shadier. The best option would be leaving the key in the storehouse, though then the rest of the family wouldn't be able to enter without breaking down the door.

>>4551248
sage

>>4551332
It felt like Rosa was being setup though. In the last few minutes before midnight, when she went to the chapel to steal the gold, she said she didn't believe that Beatrice was a witch. She thought she was a human pretending to be one.

>>4551347
>>the rest of the family wouldn't be able to enter without breaking down the door.
Which would be a problem considering that Shannon's body was hidden under a bunch of stuffs behind the door.


>>4551361
Well of course, she worked with Beatrice, she would know that she really is a human.
The one thing Beatrice probably didn't tell her is the existence of the bomb though.
Rosa probably realized it at the end, which is why she was running to the beach.

>>4551324
Actually, if you can say that she is somehow still alive in the storehouse of Episode 1, I think that she could be Beatrice, at the very least. The red is kind of tricky in the aspect, and you have to choose whether "corpse" in red has to mean that that person is dead. She also has to have a way to escape the storehouse.

I'll check all of this tomorrow as I'm compiling everything, but she has a lot of hints towards her being a witch. I need the picture, but I've always thought this ever since the scene where Battler comments about how Rosa is the type of person to always keep a promise, and in red, Beatrice keeps her promises.

Still, we'll see if it works out with all the evidence. At the very least, she is connected in some way, as shown by Episode 2 and her lying about meeting Kinzo.

>>4551347
>there's a second entrance, and therefore could be entered without knowing of the servants key
Knox's 3rd. It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist.
Hidden passage is anything that the detective cannot find.
Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.
Was there any clues pointing that the shed has 2nd entrance?
Detective's authority: detective is able to find all necessary clues, so saying that he didn't search there enough wouldn't be effective.

>>4551424
I had a vague idea that she might have hidden in the back of the shed when the culprit came in and started killing everyone, and then pretended to be dead because the killer was with the group that opened the shed up.

>>4551458
Oh, and this would explain why the anime showed tears running down her face -- she was crying in stark terror.

>>4551451
Only as long as hidden passages are not hinted at. This only works if Episode 4 hints at a hidden passage into the storehouse.

The story has hidden passages built into it. After all, the hidden gold is found in a hidden passage. However, the only way to get around Knox's rules are by hints given beforehand, I will agree with this. And I'm no longer sure that Episode 4 actually hints at another entrance to the storehouse, as someone provided another theory to getting inside.

>>4551424
>She also has to have a way to escape the storehouse.
And what it is? Shed was locked by padlock and Natsuhi was holding the key.

>>4551511
Same way Battler got in at the end of EP4. Kanon could have got bolt cutters from the mansion and cut the door open.

>>4551511
I haven't actually looked into everything, but yes, it's possible that at some point in time, someone cut the lock (as long as someone doesn't have an alibi at some time). Or Natsuhi has been threatened just as in Episode 5, and gave up the key. Or just that the door was smashed or otherwise opened from the inside, using some tools from in there. After all, I don't remember anyone ever going to check on the storehouse after the first twilight. But this right now is conjecture.

>>4551540
Actually, he even broke the door:
> I hit the shutter with the hatchet, breaking into it, stuck the wire cutter into the crack, and scissored it around, opening up a hole.

>>4551594
> Wire cutter
Hey wait a minute, wasn't there a wire cutter in Episode 6? Be pretty nice for continuity if it was the same one.

>>4551570
The surviving servants and Nanjo are all unaccounted for from 1:00pm until 7:30pm, so they had plenty of time to do all kinds of things.

EP5 brought up a few possibilities regarding corpses:
Ronove: A corpse may not necessarily be a corpse.

(Unable to confirm as I'll need to check), but Cornelia mentions that it could be a someone else's' corpse disguised to look like the victim during the real victim. This took place when Dlanor placed the red truth restriction on Battler in EP5 ura tea party.

>>4551598
It would make sense. Many items seem to get reused during the stories.

The guns, Natsuhi's mirror, the keys, and DAT HATSTAND for example.

>>4551605
It would have to be the corpse of someone who was already on the island, though. It couldn't be the corpse of someone who wasn't part of the story already, according to Gertrude's red text.

>>4551605
That was because Erika actually haven't seen any corpses from 1st twilight (they were covered by blankets).

>>4551451
>>Knox's 3rd. It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist.
>>Hidden passage is anything that the detective cannot find.

And if the detective is not trying to find them?

>>4551624
yes, and the red truth was clear on this point, "at one glance".

>>4551693
I think you'll have to be more specific and post the actual red, as that could be only talking about this particular twilight. After all, it's been otherwise established that Battler could mistake someone's death.

Another question I have: Eva returns from Rokkenjima with the ring of the head. When does she get the ring, and from whom?

I think Rosa is perfect, as she does know that Eva found the gold. However, that's not definitive.

>>4551672
"The detective can find all necessary clues", so if he can't see these passages at a glance there's no point in trying to find them. That's what Bern told Battler in the begging of 5, and later demonstrated the use of this principle proving "living Kinzo's" single possible location.

>>4551914
>>After all, it's been otherwise established that Battler could mistake someone's death.
Not really.

>>4551937
See EP 3, with Nanjo's death. Only way to solve this is if a person was faking their death and then killed him.

>>4551937
Beatrice brings it up in Episode 2, with Jessica's death. She questions whether he really knows that Jessica is dead.

>>4551920
I had forgotten about her saying this. Still, through this thread, I think that there are at least possible ways out of the storehouse using the storehouse door.

The part about "the detective can find all necessary clues," does not mean that they will find all clues. Erika could check the bodies of the cousins, but did not. It's just that, by the end of the story, all clues necessary to solve the case will be presented.

>>4551994
She even brings it in the first twilight of ep2, since he didn't check that the parents were really dead, not even got close to them

>>4551994
That was just mindfuck on her part, to make him question everything.
Battler checked Jessica's body and "Jessica's corpse" was said in red.
She is dead, there is no proof whatsoever that hint otherwise.

>>4552019
The fact that it was brought up in the first place is a hint. Furthermore, solve Nanjo's death in Episode 3 with that logic (as another Anon pointed out). Battler sees the corpses of everyone except the servants, who are dead and declared in red. He also sees Shannon's body, if you were hoping to try to explain a ShKanon persona death.

>>4552062
Uh... Shannon is a servant. So he saw at least one servant's body.

>>4552062
This isn't a hint, it's just mindfuck.
The game follows some rule, one of these rule state that the detective can recognize a corpse at first glance.
Episode 5 was basically about establishing these rules.
So far I don't see anything that hint that these rules aren't followed, if anything episode 6 prove that they are.

The corpses that Battler saw are simple corpse.
For the thing about Nanjo, it could be simple corpse substitution or something else, I don't know.
But simply giving up on these rules because you can't make sense of one mystery is the same as giving up to magic.

>>4552085
>For the thing about Nanjo, it could be simple corpse substitution or something else, I don't know.

EP 5, Gertude states that the only existing corpses are of the characters in the game. So there's no fake bodies brought or anything.

It could be possible that Battler didn't have detective authority maybe. In EP 6 Erika couldn't confirm deaths because she didn't have this and she couldn't just get information by just asking for it like she did in EP 5.

>>4552085
I'm not sure about it. In 5th ep that rule was made because corpses had their necks slit open thus making them easy to identify and recognize as definitely dead.

>>4552085
Again, I ask you to provide for me when and where this rule was stated. After all, this is not one of Knox's nor one of Dine's laws of murder mysteries. It's actually fairly common in mystery novels for someone to fake their deaths.

>>4552076
Yeah, I realized that after. However, she's the only one.

>>4552104
well if one were to look at the wound close enough - Erika didn't see it at all because of the covered sheets. Bern even made a blue when the 1st twilight was discovered that the people are probably still alive.

>>4552103
>>EP 5, Gertude states that the only existing corpses are of the characters in the game. So there's no fake bodies brought or anything.
Never said anything about a corpse being brought from outside, that would be a stupid and completely contrived solution.

But there were other corpses on the island when Shannon was discovered that could be used.

And Erika gave up her authority, that's why she could kill.
Saying that Battler didn't have this authority in episode 3 would go against the very theme of the game.

>>4552062
What if servants' names are actually titles, just like Beatrice. So when she said that
>6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
she was referring to long dead servant with that name. Therefore one (or even all) of the servants can be alive.

>>4552215
Their names are titles already, since they have real names.

>>4552225
Yes, but I mean that they pass same names onto the next generation of servants.

>>4552215
But you are forgetting:
>All names only refer to the actual people

>>4552244
That has never been implied. It's only mentioned that all of the servants from the orphanage have names that end in "on".

>>4552256
Huh, wasn't it also said that Kanon stopped going to school at some point? Is he someone who would have exceptional grades?

>>4552245
And you are forgetting context:
>The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!
Okay, there are one more
>The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
We still have Genji and Gohda. Considering that Gohda only recently hired, it was probably Genji.

Here's what I think Cornelia said about corpse substitution, but this was referring to Kinzo's corpse.

>>4552296
Not that I recall.

Anyways in Japan you're only required to go to school up until the end of middle school. They mention in the VN that the servants from the Fukuin house get ridiculously good wages and usually end up retiring early. He probably doesn't need to bother with school.

>>4552320
But Kinzo also has the red that nobody on the island can mistake Kinzo for someone else by sight.

>>4552320
But Kinzo also has the red that nobody on the island can mistake someone else for Kinzo by sight.

>>4552304
> I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people.
>Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
It applies to everyone.

>>4552320
That's because Kinzo's death can only be confirmed by the witnesses (who are silent) and GM himself.

>>4550547
Amakusa sound like Kanon.derp

>>4550645
It comes from the Taiwan epitaph theory that was made in japan. At the end of the theory Beatrice = B0mb. This also solves the riddle at the end of episode 4 for why everyone was dead and Battler was still killed by Beatrice.

>>4550963
Rosa's story actually happened later. Kyrie and the cousins though about Shannon being Beatrice before that. Kyrie says it in the conference and Jessica suggests it to the cousins after dinner.

In episode 3 The cousins and Shannon also make a promise before that at the beach they'll always be happy together. Maria asks Kyrie to promise it too before Kyrie asks here about Beatrice. And for some reason Shannon dies later.

The situations in episodes 1 2 and 3 though seem very different.

I think episode 1's conference was just as heated as episode 3, but for some reason Natsuhi doesn't leave early like in episode 1 or at least I don't think she does. So I think the servants were killed becuase they couldn't get to the siblings and their spouses.

Episode 2 the cousins and Nanjo are sent away for some reason to eat dinner somewhere else. This doesn't happen in episode 1 and 3. I think during the conference they sort of got led away to the chapel for some reason The conference may have gotten more upbeat and they decided to take it there or something.

>>4552329
Hmm, actually I think it was said in EP2. Kanon didn't go to high school, that's why he felt so awkward when he went with Jessica to her culture festival. I think Shannon still goes to high school though.

It's not that the servants have enough to retire after two years, it's that they have enough to move out on their own, and the reputation of Kinzo's servants is good enough that they can easily get jobs elsewhere.

> I think during the conference they sort of got led away to the chapel for some reason The conference may have gotten more upbeat and they decided to take it there or something.

Nanjo and Kumasawa were also with the cousins in the guest house after they were dismissed. The siblings then decided to press Genji about Beatrice. I'm not sure if they forced him to take them to her room.

Kanon is the only suspicious character with no real motives. Does this spawn curiosity in anyone else?

>>4552793

I was talking about the Family members that got led away. I already know that Nanjo and Kumasawa were with the cousins that's why I said this.

>Episode 2 the cousins and Nanjo are sent away for some reason to eat dinner somewhere else.

I support Shkanontrice, if only for the possibility of making the fatass cry as the girl he pursued dumped him for Battler.

have you all forgotten?

>>4552838
He wants to tap Shanon's ass, but George got there first. So he starts a killing spree when Shanon tells him about the wedding ring.

>>4552943
Ange burgers are delicious, how could I forget about them?

>>4552931
>as the girl he pursued dumped him for Jessica.

>>4552957

Wait, doesn't he want to grope Jessica's boobs?

>>4552957
Nah, Kanon is Beatrice and actually wants to tap Battler's ass instead. Kanon kills because Battler played off Kanon's flirting as a joke.

>>4552975
Makes sense. Except for the part that Battler is not gay.

>>4552982
Never said Battler wasn't gay, just that he confused Kanon's flirting to be a joke.

>>4552975
>>4552982
But Kanon is a girl.

>>4552975
Battler doesn't have to be gay for Kanontrice to work, Kanon does however

KanonxBattler is my OTP anyway, this would simply fuel my fetish

>>4553004
Either Kanon is a trap or a reverse-trap, this can only end good. Also Kanontrice is the only good possible ending as of present.

>>4553041
>Kanon
>only good end

quit ur trollin

>>4553095
Between Shkanontrice, Jessitrice, double-trice, and Kanontrice? Yea, Kanontrice is the only good one.

>>4553165
Fuck trice theories. Just find a mastermind character you like and settle with it. Then find a fucking motive for him to order people to kill everybody else.

Finding out whose pretending to be Beatrice =/= murder mystery solved.

There are a bunch of reds against Beatrice murdering people in episode 5 anyway.

>>4553206
Yes and no, we know Beatrice is partially responsible. Also who is the second mastermind has nothing to do with who Beatrice is.

>>4553232
we "know"?

>>4553249
Being a pawn doesn't mean you're not responsible...

>>4553232
>>4553265

The person faking Beatrice shouldn't be a mastermind character since she's a pawn like you said. Therefore there is no second mastermind. Therefore There is only one mastermind. The mastermind orders faker Beatrice to make the letters and have Maria as the messenger of them. Maria may also be involved with the magic circles.

# This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
# The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
# Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
# Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.
# Battler-kun is not the culprit.
# Battler-kun didn't kill anyone.
# This can be said of all games.
# Her goal is not to make someone experience fear.
# And it isn't to have revenge on someone either.
# Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

One of the characters faking as Beatrice murdered people as an order from the mastermind. Therefore her motive to kill is somebody else's motive. This does not contradict any reds. Either that or the person faking to be Beatrice is not a murderer.

Figure out who the mastermind is and stick with it. Trice ends are all bad ends.

>>4553313
You're an idiot, there are secondary masterminds. It's why shit hits the fan for Beatrice in episode 3.

>>4551920
And Battler himself said that he didn't take ep1 seriously at all, and almost checked nothing.
Moreover, we still don't know if all the knox rules applies here. But even the first point is enough.


>>All names only refer to the actual people

Not a problem if you play with the red here.

Actual people => actual owner of the name => If a name is made to be taken by different peoples since the beginning, there is no problem here. Of course I don't really agree with this, but this red is not a problem at all.
Of course this line of reasonning also work for titles as "Beatrice", possibly "Erika", possibly "Kinzo" or whatever.

>>4552838

Nobody have "real motives". And It's even worse with Virgilia's red in ep 5.

>>4553313
So Beatrice got caught up in someone else's plans?

There's still the letters with PIN's sent out on October 3rd though, as some form of consolation money for the survivors of the deceased. It's not clear if Beatrice wanted someone to stop her ceremony or if she had other plans.

>>4553407
Let me put it to you this way, Kanon has NO motives and would be nothing more than a pawn. Problem here is that Kanon is shown as one who wouldn't do something unless he had reasoning or motive behind it, even if it was an order from his superior.

>>4553468
Well, moreover the fact that he have absolutely no backstory until ep6 (and even after ep6 it is still quite light) doesn't help.


>>Being a pawn doesn't mean you're not responsible...

Being a scapegoat don't mean it either.

>>4553399

Maybe we shouldn't look at that as there being a second mastermind, but as the mastermind being exposed and killed after the epitaph was solved or something.

>>4553424

it's not clear who sent those letters with the PIN numbers either. It's possible that anyone who knew of the account could have done it. And anyone in the business world could have set them up. The problem is where did the money in the accounts come from? All of the Ushiromiya family members were in bad situations so they couldn't have had the money to make the account. So maybe it was the Sumadera family who sent the letters with the PIN numbers? We don't know what the financial situation for the Suamdera family was in 1986.
.

>>4553525
George did it, it was stated he was well on his way to gaining power in the business world. His motive is he heard Battler was coming, and being the spiteful asshole he is decided that it made it the perfect time to destroy the entire family and scar Battler for life.

>>4553525
The cash that was sent out was probably illegally obtained. Nanjo's son mentioned that for some reason, the person was unable to convert it into numbers for an account, rather than storing it in safes.

They were intended for Kumasawa's son, Ange, and Nanjo's son. Beatrice has some affiliation with Kumasawa and Nanjo, (Genji might not have had any family), and Ange was deliberately kept away from the island as the sender was aware.

>>4553568
>George did it

>>4553610
the glasses, man, the glasses!

>>4553424
There's no proof that the safe deposit boxes were consolation money. They might have been bribes to get the recipients to do something during the conference. There's not even really any proof that they're connected to the murders.

Rosa is the culprit.

>>4553674
It doesn't like Rudolf, Nanjo or Kumasawa were aware of money being promised to them. Something doesn't quite add up if they were in on it.

>>4553700
Kumasawa and Nanjo weren't in any particular money trouble, so we'd have no indication either way. As for the letter Ange got, couldn't it have been intended for Kyrie, who we know was in on the fake murders at least twice?

>>4553717
Ange said she probably got a letter, but we never get to see one and supposedly she lost it or something. It's possible that she never received a letter at all since it's the only one that was never found.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I've been thinking about the character motives and so far I've got

-Hideyoshi, Rosa, and Rudolf, Money
-Krauss, maybe money? He seemed to have confidence in his business crap in 5 though.
-Natsuhi wants to protect the honor of the family, establish Krauss as the head, and protect Jessica.
-Nanjo has a sick granddaughter. But he doesn't seem to be having any financial woes.
-George wants to be the head and would do anything for his waifu.
-Shanon, George mainly. She also has a lot of guilt over the mirror thing.
-Jessica was abused as a child and doesn't want to be the head. But when you think about it the 4 siblings probably went through much worse. I also don't see her as the type to be running around in a typhoon with her asthma.
-Kumasawa is highly interested in the epitaph. This is probably the only reason that she still works there.
-Maria is a nutty, semi autistic child who would probably do whatever the person that she calls Beatrice asks her to. But she is also the weakest physically, and the most supervised.
-Eva is also worried about money. But she also has an obsession with becoming the head. However she is also the only person who has looked Battler in the eyes and explained how she would killed someone. She also puts emphasis on the fact that she really wouldn't want to be blamed for killing her family.
-Kyrie is obviously still very spiteful about the whole Asumu thing. IMO her phone call in 4 was very suspicious, moreso than Jessica's, because it sounded like she dropped the phone right when Battler said that he though of her as his Mom. We can't really be sure about what she's up to until we know who Battler's real mother it.
- Kanon, and Genji don't seem to have a motive.

>>4553742
The recipient was Rudolf though and the sender was Ange.
>>4553717
Ange said she received one, excited thinking it was from her father, she opened it and was disappointed in its contents. Afterwards, she threw it somewhere and lost it.

>>4553769
>I also don't see her as the type to be running around in a typhoon with her asthma.
On the subject of her asthma, is it really as bad as she makes it? We haven't seen her seize up like she did in the early EPs for a while now.

And the biggest thing that bugs me is it's never specified really what Dlanor means when she says pieces cannot do something impossible for them. Jessica, the asthma patient, fights Ronove like a prize fighter, apparently forgetting that she has a weak constitution.

>>4553826
The poison's antidote causes coughing spasms

>>4553826
Well, most of her scenes right now are pure fantasy scenes. Just look at ep4.

>>4553769
Genji's motive is being a Butler and he's described as being like a robot.

Also you forgot about Gohda, but that's okay because he doesn't have a motive to kill anyone other than being devoted to Natsuhi. And I don't think he murders anyone really.

>>4553843
Gohda is probably threatened for his life or job. His TIPS suggest that he felt threatened by Gohda.

>>4553869

>Gohda is probably threatened for his life or job. His TIPS suggest that he felt threatened by Gohda.

So there's two? Fucking Magical Gohda Chef.

>>4553877
DID.

>>4553869

Gohda felt threatened by Gohda? lolwut?

>>4553826
You make a good point.

However her biggest seizure was in 2 right? She had just seen her dead parents, Aunts, and Uncles gutted like like fish with their innards thrown everywhere. Then she got that Troll-a-licious letter from piece Beatrice. I think her attack then was more of a stress reaction.

I also think that Dlanor meant that in more of a "They see this, this is what they do" sense. For example Kanon can't even lift a bag of fertilizer by himself yet he manages to cut through a bunch of metal gates, and fend off Goatmen in the other fantasy scenes.

>>4553887
>>4553877
My mistake, I meant Gohda felt threatened by Genji. I always get their names mixed up.

>>4553897
I do too, it doesn't help that they dress the same.

>>4553894
>For example Kanon can't even lift a bag of fertilizer by himself yet

>>4553894
The culprit(s) who killed the parents really had it planned out. They knew at least one of the cousins would want to break into the honored guest room, but they wouldn't have known who specifically.

That leaves Kanon*, Shannon, Genji and Kumasawa out of Battler's line of vision.

>>4553313
Long story short, Beatrice's a puppet, and it up to us to find the puppeteer. The person playing as Beatrice might as well died in that explosion, with the mastermind operating either on or off the island.

>>4554036
It is stated that Beatrice isn't always a puppet. You're an idiot if you think Beatrice doesn't sometimes overthrow the person controlling her and take their place.

>>4554094
We saw this firsthand in 4.

>>4554116
Pretty sure it happens in episode 1.

>>4554116
You talking about the scene where she burns Kinzo alive in episode 4?

>>4554184
No I'm talking about the scene where she calls Battler up while she's smashed as fuck and makes him go down to the mansion to talk to her. She did something similar in 1 as well as >>4554171
mentioned. Pic being from the Manga.

>>4554200
I was always astounded at how stupid the Jessitrice fags are. There is definite proof IN THE FIRST FUCKING EPISODE that Jessica cannot be Beatrice.

>>4554260

No there isn't. She manipulated the beato dress with a string and pulley system operated near her mother's dead body.

>>4554260
I bring this up too but they always insist that I'm misinterpreting the scene.

I think that they think that the cousins didn't see Beatrice because they watched the Anime first and interpreted it as the portrait itself laughing.

>>4554298
Scene from the VN, a screenshot from the VN OP, and what happened in the Anime.

>>4554284
>>455-thread in general
>She manipulated the beato dress with a string and pulley system operated near her mother's dead body.
whatever
this franchise's retardation is now officially awesome

>>4554298
I sometimes wonder if that silk dress really exists at all.

>>4554284
Um...wow. That's definietly new. Mind telling us how she got a pulley system installed in a second, seeing as she was with Battler the entire time from in the parlor and to the portrait.

>>4554325
With even more pulleys and a lever

>>4554312
They hear laughter, but they never really see the persons face.

Pulleyandlevertrice theory?

>>4554284
.>>4554336

Knox's 4th. It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be USED!!

Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!

Furthermore Battler is the detective and he wouldn't mistake a dead person hanging from a pulley for the person in the portrait and neither would Maria. Unless Jessica is some sort of mad scientist (no hints for it) I don't see this working at all.

Umineko isn't a fucking shakespeare play you can't just use complicate pulley systems to solve this whenever it's inconvenient for you.

>>4554336
There was a tiny wire coming out of Natsuhi's forehead that ran up into the roof. This was connected to various pulleys located on the ceiling that Battler couldn't see because he was so incompetent. She had planned to have Natsuhi killed in that exact spot so that she could hook her up to the contraption once there was a hole in her head. Jessica made sure to position Natsuhi's body behind where Battler would be standing so that she could operate the Beato puppet in secret. Battler also didn't know that there was a Tiny Bullet proof shield the exact size of a bullet on the puppet that would trigger a bomb to go off in the boiler room if hit while also causing the bullet to ricochet and kill Battler the second that he shot.

Jessica planned this entire thing out for years guys.

>>4554405

>>4554371
They don't have to see a person's face to know that they're there. Also

>>4554200
>>4554298
>>4554312

You can't see her face in any of these.

>>4554434
Lookin' kinda badass there, Battler.

>>4554336
So Jessica can magically create levers and pulley systems that don't exist in seconds when there are no hints for it? That's Incredibly stupid sorry, just like your suspect. But I guess I can't expect anything better from you.

>>4554434
Jesus Christ Battler looks all sorts of awesome there.

>>4554511
They were being sarcastic.

THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAD FOR SERIOUS PEOPLE.

>>4554523
>>4554449

Badass Battler mind

>uminekorhapsody.mp3

What the hell is this, /jp/?

>>4554547
it's amazing

>>4554558

The concept is laudable but the execution is sloppy and offensive to my ears.

>>4550524

>We know what everyone else does, but all we know about Rudolf is that it is a niche company that is in a lawsuit with an American company for some reason.

>The only theory that I can come up with is that perhaps Rudolf makes occult items, such as the stakes. The stakes traced back to an American company, but perhaps Rudolf's company is in the lawsuit for creating identical items.

No Rudolf said himself why his company was in trouble. His company has a similar sounding name to the American company. So the lawsuit was over the brand name and he was going to settle and change the name of his company, but the American side is demanding a lot of money for the settlement. It's interesting that you could connect the stakes to Rudolf's situation though.

>>4554547
Umineko Rhapsody by The Furuguy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gymBixP5rQU
http://www.mediafire.com/?kimr3mjgwmo

>>4553407
Playing with the red is just a cheap way to place your favorite characters as culprits and solve mysteries in your favorite ways, ignoring the truth.

Only referring to "the actual people" is referring to the fact that if someone says Kanon in red, they mean Kanon, the one you are supposed recognize as Kanon, not somebody you make up and give Kanon's name for your own convenience. This goes for everyone's name regarding this closed room.

>>4554405
Wow.

I think we found something more ridiculous than Shkanontrice.

>>4554665
>something more ridiculous than shkannontrice

>>4554655

That is not the full red. The full red doesn't refer to Kanon it refers to the people in the neighboring room.

>The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people! other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!

>>4554701
Sorry, it applies to absolutely everyone in the situation.

>Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.

>>4554588
I'll have to go back and look. I don't remember him saying that it was specifically the name that was similar sounding, but rather as others have said, perhaps copyright infringement. However, I still don't remember any definite reason. I'll go back and check.

>>4554719
It almost sounds like it applies to everyone in all games, so that "inheriting title" crap is bullshit.

>>4554739
>It almost sounds like it applies to everyone in all games, so that "inheriting title" crap is bullshit.
>so that "inheriting title" crap is bullshit.
>crap is bullshit.
I lol'd.

You should have said bullshit is crap.

>>4554719
So how did Kanon rescue Battler then?

>>4554767
Well, obviously, the "actual person" Shannon and the "actual person" Kanon have, from the very beginning, been the same person.

>>4554767
Magic.

Here you have proof positive of Jessitrice. Straight form the horse's mouth.

>>4554805
Battler calls both Jessica and Beatrice tsundoras.

This is good enough for me.

>>4554815
The girl who fell in love with Battler didn't have that personality to begin with though.

Kanon is Beatrice.
Ep 4.
She poisoned Maria and placed her body.
She killed herself (probably in kuwadorian) after Battler forgot about his sin.

>>4554966
#Kanon is dead.
#Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die.
#In short, he was the 9th victim.

>>4554777
doesn't solve anything except if you messes with the red and a part of the white. And in this case you can say anything.

>>4554805
and this proves jessitrice how?

>>4554724

It was in episode 2 after Jessica and Kumasawa have a conversation at the portrait. After Rudolf says goodbye to Kyrie and kisses the phone he talks with someone on the phone about it. The other party seems to think Rudolf's company was violating their brand image, but I didn't see any hint that he was making replicas of their merchandise.

I've just realized that
-all Beato ever did was directing staffs/furniture to create magic scenarios using "Beatrice's" bottled letter plot scripts (describing the ceremony of the witch in great details)
-it really wasn't her fault that the murders were so cruelly portrayed
-as Virgilia said (IIRC), solving the epitaph really meant nothing to Beato (but might mean something for "Beatrice", who wrote the scripts, probably why EP3 went odd, since it wasn't expected)

-meta-Beato's status was probably no different from Battler, she is also trapped in this game until the humans solve it
-Beato wanted Battler to solve the case, and believes he can do it... because he is most likely an outsider of "Beatrice's" plans, his arrival was not expected when she wrote the Bottled Letters. (they were Diary sized letters describing the ceremony of the witch, there is no way anyone would have enough time during the game to write it) Hence, Battler always survives to the end. In a sense, to Beato, Battler's existence is a miracle.

slowpoke.jpg

>>4555286
You are correct. However, couldn't "violating their brand image" possibly mean that their products were too similar? If they were, but Rudolf's were inferior, it would hurt the brand image. I guess for that to work, the names would have to be similar as well.

It is also said that Rudolf's business would probably have to change their name. It also appears that the other company is an "American corporate giant," even though it's only a niche in Japan.

>>4555418

Well a niche business doesn't have to be a small business. It just has to create things for a market that is often overlooked. In other words it makes things that most mainstream businesses don't want to deal with. Rosa's textile store could also be niche business.

I wonder what Rudolf needs "pipelines in asia" for... he's not running an oil business is he?

>>4554805
Actually, it proves Shannontrice.

It proves nothing. Actually, it could refer to Shannontrice OR Kanontrice (yeah, Kanon) or lolitrice, or, even, with more tolerance, Kumasawatrice.

It is not a proof of any of thoses.