/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Ancient Capital looks pretty great like this, I always thought it had to be a massive cavern

new chapter?

uhhuh

so someone was helping Mizuchi out?

>>45353410
Hell is said to be infinitely large after all. Former Hell is merely a corner of it

>>45353410
It's just like in dark souls

>>45353407
Can she suck me off?

>>45355683
It would be extremely painful.

>>45355127
MY BONES
IT'S CRACKLING ONCE AGAIN
God damnit I already had my annual visit to the hospital.

translation when

umm...Marisa...

>>45358811
marisa, kogasa, nazrin and ichirin have never been in this series
stop bringing them up

>>45358836
Irrelevant side characters need not apply
Only relevant and strong people can act here. This is not a normal incident, it is a matter of high importance to the stability of Gensokyo.

>>45353407
post the link

How did Mizuchi managed to escape? Plot armor?

>>45359090
did she escape? I think yukari might have sent her to the underground when she tried to leave

>>45359090
she didn't. the plan was to trap her in old hell, and Yukari did that

for some reason she only focused on Byakuren

>>45359166
maybe she got sealed in makai before getting sealed in former hell, since she had to, you know, perform multiple jailbreaks to be called the jailbreak king

>>45359166
She kinda looks like Zanmu

>>45359166
Byakuren is basically the opposite of Mizuchi, she wants harmonious relationships between humans and youkai and is in the process of inventing youkai buddhism.
Mizuchi on the other hand is literally a deceased human kept alive by her grudges and resentment, in other words her negative attachments.

>>45360418
Don't you dare compare that bitch hijiri with zanmu, zanmu got it right, we have to die and kill the impures to become a buddha, hijiri is just a larper and can't control herself when things went shit and even miko is more a saint

And don't forget appearance wise zanmu is a fashion catastrophe just like hecatia

>>45353407
couldn't help it

>>45361237
Based, the artist's attempts at making le scary faces end looking goofy as fuck, that nigga ain't no Masaaki Nakayama.

>>45361287
still better than the old one

>>45361287
I'm not entirely convinced that the satori panel isn't supposed to be slightly goofy since it's not a reveal that it's mizuchi because we already know that

>>45359166
Man, Reimu is the target yet Mizuchi barely gives a shit about her

>>45361346
I really wouldn't be surprised if ZUN forgot that was a plot point. When was the last time it was mentioned? During the first artist's run?

>>45361366
If you think about it, mizuchi never said that, it was just a theory made by other characters (if I haven't forgotten)

>>45361509
wasn't it Yukari who told Reimu about it though?

>>45361509
Yeah, but she attacked people based on the release order of their debut game i.e. the incident that Reimu solved

>>45361509
didn't satori tell reimu that? you'd think she'd know

It was released a day ago and there's still no translation, I hate being a japlet

>>45355127
I forget why but I remember strongly thinking that had to be the case during the MoF chapters. Something about being in two places at once?
I can't keep up with shit when chapters are monthly releases and I can't bring myself to trust that the plot's actually coherent.
I don't care about Mima but I do hope that there is another culprit, cause revealing Mizuchi so early and her being a newhu in a supposed "detective" story really blew my interest in trying to understand things.

>>45359166
So Satori got rekt for nothing?

https://mangadex.org/chapter/f6ba8e81-1530-49f9-90be-cbffffabb7f2

>>45366784
>Subterranean Animosity
Ok that's a really cool name lol

>>45366784
really hope this is the last we see of flan for a while
if she sticks around now I'm going to be doubly pissed because mokou disappeared despite having just as much reason to stick around

>>45366845
Sorry anon, Flandoll is the new hotness right now.

gotta make Reimu relevant somehow

>>45366857
Well, that's another confirmation that youkai is physically more resilient than your average squishy human

>>45366857
This shit is so dumb. Like hell any Touhou fan need to be told that Youkai obviously not going to die from being stabbed once, let alone Reimu. Reimu fight youkai for a job and is this surprised that they can tank such tiny stab wound just fine?

fanon flan... home...

>>45366871
OK, so what the fuck did they mean by that, aside from generic spoopy manga dialogue vagueness? Sacrifice how? To whom? Why?

>>45366904
Nuh uh, that is canon Flan now
Even in 17.5 she opened the battle with Yuuma by
>I just want to destroy the indestructible
>Especially YOU who no one else can destroy. Here I COME!!!

>>45366784
Is Marisa fucking dead or what? And why would Reimu die in an all out fight against Mizuchi and not any of the youkai at the temple who are explicitly stated to be weak against vengeful spirits. Also Satori being suicidal like that was kinda fucked up. Maybe next chapter we finally get to know why Mizuchi hates Reimu.

>>45366857
Youkai would die to firarms fags are eating horrible tonight, even Satori, a jobber can tank a chucked Laevateinn and non-serious attacks from Flan and regenerate back to full almost right away.
And flan's unserious attacks are at minimum in the building destroying levels of attack potency.

>>45366931
Marisa was basically already spent after fighting Flandre
She got tossed around by Flandre and use the last of her energy to fire a full powered Master Spark. She can barely stand after that

>>45366932
Not necessarily, the main way to hurt a youkai is psychologically, so the important part is to seriously believe you hurt the youkai with your attacks
That's why Nue jobbed to a simple arrow rain for example

not even a look at Reimu, when they finally met face to face, why is Reimu here again?

>>45366952
I figured that those were magic, like humans can use magic and things were definitely more magical in the past.
I'm not even talking like those arrows having building level attack potency, just that they were made to be more effective against youkai through some magical means like having talismans attached.

>>45366967
I really think that ZUN's not actually writing this anymore and it's the artist's show, and they forgot that reimu was actually supposed to be mizuchi's target

>>45366948
Yeah but she got Mizuchi'd in the forest by a possessed Satori. She's just in the woods knocked out presumably. Would've liked to see her at least stumble her way to the rest of the group or somebody go looking for her instead of being forgotten like that.

>>45366983
Magic is empowered by faith too
Hakurei Yin Yang orb is lethal to youkai because it contain Hakurei God power in it. And Hakurei God is certainly powered by human faith, faith that his power is lethal to youkais

>>45367002
I my eyes it works that way due to that faith being directed at youkais, not saying all youkai are at this level of strength, but if going up against anything mid-level and above I think specialized equipment would be necessary.

>>45367013
Marisa existing destroyed that narrative
She a practitioner of magic, but in a more scientific way that doesn’t seem to rely on faith. She blasted youkais with sheer magical firepower

>>45366857
Flan's danmaku actually really pierced her flesh? I thought it was some spirit projectile that did superficial damage. But if Satori is durable, why does she keep passing out from light exertion?

Damn so it wasn't even someone helping her.
Well if nothing else, I do like the use of Yukari's power there. In most fanwork she would just use her gap as a portal underground. To actually turn the exit from Myouren temple into the entrance to Former Hell feels more proper-like.

Bros the prisons here are really spacious

>>45361237
Why do you bring this garbage to /jp/?

>>45367071
Yeah, but it's still magic, I doubt an entirely conventional force would be effective against youkai, especially if things got serious and the youkai used their abilities to the fullest.
Not to we don't exactly see her delivering lethal blasts to youkai, so I don't think she can be used as an accurate measurement, although I think the mountain destroying level of force the Mini-Hakkero can deliver at full blast would kill a youkai.

>>45367113
Less because she is weak, but rather because the position she is in (The goddamn head of Former Hell) require her to work and think a lot. Also reading mind canonically take a toll on her and it show

>>45367113
Physical damage is different from mental damage
Her passing out is because she got overwhelmed either by her mind reading power read too many subconscious or she mind read someone with a nasty thoughts

I'm starting to think this story is a bit wank

>>45367113
I'm not going out of my way to check, but pretty sure every time she's shown to pass out or be generally unfit it came after using her mind reading ability.

How to write a CDS chapter:
Everyone just sort of stands around talking about what to do or what they did.
If they do have a plan then they come up with it off screen, got to keep the readers guessing.
Have some fights to break things up.
Reimu goes "Buh?" Or "!!!" at least once a chapter.
Satori eats shit. If there's no nobody around, she'll just pass out by herself.
Mizuchi changes her possession targets offscreen and makes scary faces at the protagonists before getting away.
Don't drop any hints on her motivations or her plan, why would readers want to know that?

>>45367173
Also I think we should take CDS art at face value. The artist style make everyone look extra tired. Satori looked fine in WaHH so she definitely is not tired all day

>>45367190
Meanwhile in LE
>Stuffs happened
>”Yeah I suspect this was the tengu/oni doing, probably tengu”
>Reimu fuck Aya up
>Mamizou magically show up and say “ACKTUALLY”

>>45367000
Marisabros... she's suffering more than the "ultimate target"

>>45367190
Reimu shown as too incompetent. It's not nice.

ZUN is clearly a hack for decades now, why are you fags surprised

>>45367157
The oni run Former Hell. Satori is only responsible for containing the Hell of Blazing Fires and keeping the vengeful spirits in, but most of the actual work is done by her pets instead of Satori, so she really doesn't do shit.
The rest of the inhabitants of the Former Capital don't want to deal with her either, which is why she lives such an isolated life surrounded by only her pets in the first place. Nobody would put her in charge of anyone.

>>45367234
>incompetent
more like she doesn't do anything, she could at least go and attack randomly like when she did with Aya but she just sits there

>>45367135
I have very little respect for CDS

>>45367289
Hell nah. Satori literally was appointed the position by Yama
>In WaHH, a vengeful spirit come asking her to host a festival, implying she have authority over it
>In the same chapter, it also shown she answer directly to the Yama and can talk to her anytime
>Yuugi in 17.5, Yuuma route, refer to the "Mistress of the Palace" as the highest authority Yuuma can ask for favors, once again implying Satori have great authority in Former Hell
>Have enough authority to summon Yukari and ask her for a favor
This is literally years old lore, decades old even

>>45367313
CDS Reimu is so inconsistent she puts years of DC/Marvel comics to shame.

>>45367313
>>45367404
Between this and LE, I feel like people in Gensokyo are racist toward tengus

>>45366923
Read it just now and I am pretty sure it mean Reimu gonna get fucking beaten to a pulp by Byakuren/Shou/Flandre if they ever have to fight a battle royale

>>45367235
He didn't seem like that big of a hack when writing CoLA because he wrote it from a perspective of his pseud self-insert lmao. Everything after that was a mistake.

The CDS idea was so good, but it was so poorly executed..

>>45367556
I'll always say that it needed a bunch of build up chapters to actually set satori up as a detective
plus I just don't think touhou works as shounenshit, this should have been a story about talking, but half the characters in the latest chapter just stand there and don't do anything

>Satori listed Marisa as a threat to Flandre
>Flandre trashed her in 2 chapters
>Would have probably give Byakuren a good beating as well if the fight wasn't interrupted
Just how fucking strong is Flandre?

>>45367575
as strong as she needs to beat everyone because she's gone into mary sue territory
she shouldn't actually be that strong, she just has an ability that makes most of the fighting irrelevant
this manga is so fucking shit

I thought this chapter was pretty good, any actual criticisms anyone beyond "I am summarizing what happened"?

>>45367575
Who are you quoting?
Also, we don't know if Flandre would've beat Byakuren at all. Byakuren was clowning on Flan more on the earlier chapters, if anything.
>>45367588
>she shouldn't actually be that strong
Why wouldn't she? Vampires are one of the strongest races of youkai in Touhou. They're as strong as Oni and as fast as Tengu.

>>45367604
i think it's an "ok" chapter but i still have problem with how nonexistent Reimu is.

>>45367604
Just a general feeling of unease over the state of the story. What if the artist is taking to many liberties and corrupting canon gensokyo. No one should have that power but ZUN.

>>45367692
>What if the artist is taking to many liberties and corrupting canon gensokyo
Stop licking ZUN's balls lmao, it's 100% on him

>>45367679
I agree that Reimu's being uncharacteristically silent, but Reimu in CDS in general has been pretty perturbed by whatever Mizuchi is, and the incident in general. More and more I believe "Mizuchi was a past Hakurei" theory.
Reimu's as straightforward as can be. She goes in a line and beats people up on the way, she can't plan for shit, and in general beyond the knowledge of Youkai Extermination, is pretty dumb. We've never seen her handle an incident both personal and actually needs thinking, because just beating everyone up might make things worse.

>>45367720
Also apparently Mizuchi is infamous in Former Hell for some reason cause all youkai know her names and fear it

>>45367729
Reimu's name too is known by youkai althroughout (even ones beyond Gensokyo) and feared. It's even mentioned in the spellcard rules that one of the reasons why it exists is to give youkai a chance against her. Maybe Mizuchi's name is feared that much because she did the same thing as Reimu before.

>>45367720
>More and more I believe "Mizuchi was a past Hakurei" theory.
what if...

>>45367756
She have the title of "Jailbreak King", implying she have been jailed/sealed many times before and escaped
And you know who is the expert at sealing in Gensokyo

>>45367770
nta
But that's my second biggest hope, my number one is it's a PC98 'mu and Mima team up, but we haven't seen anything hinting towards a second culprit.
But that would be a good twist.

>>45367575
It seems that Satori basing it off from Spell Card duel perspective, not the good ol' fisticuffs brawl

>>45367604
Marisa was written out and forgotten. She didn't get to do much but leaving her dead in the forest like that without any follow up feels very cheap. Maybe Naz, Ichirin and Kogasa went and got her. Otherwise I guess it's fine but it's hard to see how this story is going when we still have nothing really to go off with Mizuchi still.

>>45367720
I would like to actually take anything at this point. Maybe we'll know stuff now that she's back in old hell. I do agree about the similarities tho, When Flan sensed malicious intent from Mizuchi back in the beginning chapters. She compares it to Reimu from 6

>>45367806
It's quite difficult for any story to have too many characters in one scene and be coherent. Marisa might very well be passed out somewhere in the ground at this point, and we'll just see her on her feet later.
I guess the slow monthly release of the manga is one of the biggest downfalls, since this is the first Touhou manga since to have an overarching plot that's not anthology-like after SSiB, and barely anyone here on /jp/'s been here since 2007. ZUN clearly wants to do write a slower pace story like what he does for almost every manga he's written, which I definitely don't mind, but it does turn off a lot of people when it's done with a manga that has an overarching plot.

>>45367387
>Hell nah. Satori literally was appointed the position by Yama
You'll have to source this claim. Her SA profile and SoPM record only proclaim her to be the mistress of the Palace of the Earth Spirits, situated over the Hell of Blazing Fires, thus making her responsible for it.
>In WaHH, a vengeful spirit come asking her to host a festival, implying she have authority over it
Yes, she would have authority over the vengeful spirits situated in the Hell of Blazing Fires.
>In the same chapter, it also shown she answer directly to the Yama and can talk to her anytime
Where did you get that from?
>Yuugi in 17.5, Yuuma route, refer to the "Mistress of the Palace" as the highest authority Yuuma can ask for favors, once again implying Satori have great authority in Former Hell
Yuugi was talking about Yuuma's role as the manager of the Hell of Blood Pools, which is situated over the Hell of Blazing Fires, thus making it de facto one of Satori's responsibilities as well, as far as the oni, who'd rather forget about the place, are concerned.
Given Yuuma's nature, Yuugi likely assumed that she was another one of Satori's pets, assigned a lousy duty and thus Yuugi asked if Yuuma wanted to speak to Satori on her behalf about a possible reassignment. (She's a good girl)
>Have enough authority to summon Yukari and ask her for a favor
Yukari gets involved because she thinks it's the best solution. She doesn't do so as a favor to Satori or acknowledge any authority; their interests simply aligned.

There's nothing in Touhou that claims Satori has any authority over the entirety of Former Hell. She just manages a small corner that the oni don't want to deal with.

>>45367756
>It's even mentioned in the spellcard rules that one of the reasons why it exists is to give youkai a chance against her.
I thought this was the case, but it seems like she’s been gradually weakened since FS. Is there a particular reason? She used to be more interesting to read.

>>45367918

>>45367914
i can't remember much of Reimu being serious except against jobbers honestly, in FS Reimu threatened and tried to attack Aya plenty of times before Marisa stopped her, Aya wasn't even phased by it, yet in CDS she was actually terrified of Reimu suddenly

>>45367857
SSiB was already long over by this point, and it had a sizeable companion piece that explored the characters in greater depth. It was relatively dense and focused compared to this one, which has little happening most of the time, has a bloated cast, hardly does anything with them, and has less actual stakes than the slice-of-life manga.
If ZUN wants to tell a slower story, he needs to actually plan around it, instead of fucking around forever.

Maybe the best way to go with this manga was to not have Reimu be the focal point, or at least when she started as it.
Having her star in role where trying to resolve a incident through trickery, and not through brute force since this is a detective story, just forces her as just another observer in the background.
Having her just beat the shit out of people before the issue is fixed like she usually does wouldn't work in a serious story like this, so she is hamstrung.

>>45367857
Slower pace doesn't bother me. I really enjoyed SSiB alongside CiLR because of all the characterisation and the plot. Just CDS feels so washy with a lot of the plot details and characters. Things get glossed over and never brought up again so it just feels like a wild goose chase with no real stake other than Reimu spooked. I still enjoy it just hoping when it's done it reads a lot better when you go through it all.

>>45368093
I don't think ZUN can ever bring himself to not heavily involve Reimu, even when she serves no purpose.
Even the Three Fairies of Light ended up moving to the shrine just so their stories could involve Reimu more.

>>45367128
Gottem

>>45367209
But the last three mini arcs was nothing like that.
Mamizou was wrong when it came to the Tengu fires, she had nothing to do with Marisa's anti-rat ritual, and she was embarrassed by a bunch of bees.

>>45368135
It's true, it's like he self mandates that Reimu must make an apperance, I don't even think he likes her that much, he's just too autistic to not write a story involving Bitch'mu.

>>45368203
Reimu is ZUN's favorite character

>>45368135
Maybe he sees her as the face of the series and would feel wrong for hum to have touhou without its main protagonist.

>>45368135
The problem is that the story is supposed to be serious, and the threat really real to the safety of Gensokyo.
If the stakes weren't put onto such a high pedestal, maybe the cast acting like a bunch of idiot bystanders to the detective wouldn't be such a mood breaker.
But who knows, CDS is a cursed manga to say the least. Dropped plot hooks, disappearing characters, a villain who has no clear motives after over 30 chapters easily makes this ZUN's worst work.

>>45368216
That would be Aya.

>>45367575
I mean I would give Byakuren better odds than Marisa in this case, since Byakuren is already a master magician and everything

Why is she so seductive?

>>45368352
>better odds
Byakuren would smoke Flan if she didn't pull herself back like she always does

>>45367571
How is this manga shounen though?

>>45367113
Yokai are made of spiritual, superficial bullshit

>ohoo?
mizuchi... even I realized it was a trap before turning the page

>>45369046
This is true, all youkai are superficially bullshit, but when you look behind that superficial exterior you see the gallons and gallons of cum I've poured into them and the numerous eggs fertilized by my seed.

>>45366845
I wouldn't mind if they revealed more of her personality beyond prideful murder hobo.

Mizuchi was played like a damn fiddle

>>45370034
why didn't she use Satori's reading ability?

>>45370071
What good what it do her? Especially since she didn't have time to figure out Satori's technique that allow her to copy attacks.
When she possess a person she only gets their base capabilities/ability, so people like Byakuren, i.e witches would be less than useless to her.

>>45370086
I mean before stopping the fight between the girls, Satori's third eye is always open even when chatting with people but when it was Mizuchi, it was closed, honestly it made it clear it was her

>>45368260
>maybe the cast acting like a bunch of idiot bystanders to the detective wouldn't be such a mood breaker.
To be fair, how is that not totally in character?

>>45367575
>"I asked you not to underestimate me"
God, I only wish for flandre to get more thrashed and have her teeth kicked in. Byak Already clowning her good.
She is dangeoursly aproaching mary sue territory, and almost an unbearable asshole without a sufficient reason

Flan? The strongest

Just got caught up. I don't have an issue with Flan being so strong but is Reimu so fucking weak? Did the author forget she's the one who solves all the incidents and has defeated the likes of Remilia, Eirin/Kaguya, Kanako. Utsuho, Junko etc? She should have no problem handling Flandre on her own.

>>45371025
No one's playing by the spellcard rules so she's out of her element.

>>45371025
she's just not trying. monk and Flan are the stars of this arc so she just sits on the sidelines

>>45371048
Isn't that even worse? Didn't some of the side material say the spellcard rules were created to give the Youkai a chance against Reimu, not the other way around?

>>45371089
This is what happens when you believe in Hakurei propaganda.
Crimson Sl-ACK!!!

>>45367071
"mix those two ingredients and things go boom, because yes" is just another form of faith. if she doesn't try to undertand the checimal applications, it is just make believe.
in that magical land, believing in results is strength in itself.

>>45366904
Based ZUN!!! smashing to smithereens all the fucking phonies and frauds that were all like "hurrr Flan is not edgy at all, ackchually she is canonically just a hikki that don't want to hurt nobody!" . AHAHAHAHA how does it feels being wrong, you fucking pussies? edgy killing machine Flanners FTW. >:3

>>45371089
Gap hag propaganda obviously.
But for real tho, feels like this is just for convenience's sake. Competent moo would probably resolve this incident before things even get this far.

>>45371179
competent reimu would have actually acted like flan does in this chapter
she would have gone there and just kicked the shit out of everyone until mizuchi was forced to reveal herself
reimu not wanting to get involved and thinking that she's in the wrong was established in SSiB, but here she's just not doing anything at all. She's involved, but is the second most passive character in the story, and the only one more passive is aya because she's very specifically not getting involved and is only there because she wants a story

>>45370906
Why was she needed again? Remilia could have sufficed, or anyone with a lot of power for that matter, and there wasn't a risk of the plan going up in flames because Flan's unpredictability.
Characters getting sidelined or just straight up going MiA for Flandre really causes a big issue with CDS.
Mizuchi made a ton of enemies, so getting help from most of the major factions should not have been a problem.

>>45371569
flan can't beat up everyone if three (four, but she fought marisa already) separate characters just up and vanish from the setting for no reason
will we ever see ichirin, nazrin, or kogasa again? nobody knows, but we never saw mokou again even though we were shown that satori and reimu waited for mokou to wake up

>>45371089
It's because ZUN is a fraud who finally fell for fanon and now needs to push Flan as the #1 strongest in Gensokyo no matter what, so the pre-established story no longer matters.

yukari is a silent background character now...
as low as alice...

>>45370415
The cast knows two wraiths, and a Hermit who deals with vengeful spirits as a hobby. Needing to carry the idiot ball for the detective just to have the story go the way the author wants it to is not good story telling.

>>45353407
man I really dont like this artstyle, it doesn't fit touhou at all

>>45372045
Every art style doesn't fit Touhou anon

>>45367720
Hope Mizuchi was really a Hakurei or from another youkai exterminating clan that worked with them before Gensokyo came to be.
Really hope we get more info about the past.
>>45367781
And she clearly also knows how to unseal like she did with the chupacabra in FS.
Guess a miko's transformed into youkai/ghost is one of the worst things to deal with.
>>45367770
>>45367785
pc98'mu already started jailbreaking in life with Kotohime... but I think I'm just getting to excited over that idea.
If pc98 really turns out to be the past in canon I'm not sure if my bones would be able to handle that.

>>45372224
Hirasaka's style is fine

>>45372277
he makes everyone look either chubby or like a child, even the ones who shouldn't look like children

>>45372311
>everyone look either chubby or like a child
NTA but that's exactly what ZUN's art is, well except for the chubby part

Going to have to put Byakuren above Flandre on the power level chart now

It's over Reimu bros, there is a new Crimson Slasher in Gensokyo and her name is Flandre Scarlet, the Avatar of Shiva, Princess of Destruction, Daughter of Abaddon, Heiress of Typhon, Sword of Gehenna, Shield of Transylvania, Spear of Okina, Rightful Queen of Gatlantis and Sister of Reimilia Scarlet, the Legitimate Heiress to the Throne of the Duchy of Burgundy.

>>45372045
I really like how they draw Reimu because she always looks so grumpy.

>>45373582
Absolutely humbled by the Monk.

Rest in peace, Satori's left nipple, your sacrifice won't be in vain.

>>45366932
youkai can't die from physical causes, but they sure can be temporarily knocked out by them, just like how humans can be "temporarily incapitated" by mental causes, but can't die from them.

>>45373637
Taoist bros Byakuren can't keep getting away with it!

>>45373637
>Needs to sneak attack a vampire brat twice to look cool
What a fraud monk

>>45373673
To be fair Flan started the fight to begin with. The only cheap trick was when she flung her through the ceiling. Flan simply wasn't keeping up with her till later.

>>45367770
I'd like to imagine something else.

>>45373717
I do believe that Mizuchi was a Hakurei, I should've worded that better.

>>45373717
I have only read it from nips who went to that ZUN art museum. But apparently the concept art for Label girl had her tied up by ropes from hands and neck

>>45373717
It'd be cool but the story for it hasn't been referenced in anything really. Surely ZUN would've thrown more bones hinting at a DiPP connection. I do think Mizuchi is connected someway through Reimu or the shrine but not really sure she's actually a Hakurei though.

>>45373717
"see Reimu. all you had to do was to stab these bitches"

>Mizuchi was a Hakurei
There's no way in eight layers of Buddhist Hell ZUN are that clever to even conceptualize that kind of storyline

>>45373269
>For getting 2 hits on Flandre that she barely even feel

What would cause a human hate the hakurei shrine that badly anyway?

>>45373895
Hakurei owe some money, you know with the shrine barely got any donation and all

>>45373895
The fact she is vital to maintaining the barrier keeping people trapped.

Most people in jail hate their jailor.

>>45366903
you would be surprised at how many retards there are here going hurf durf le youkai scared of gun in the "lore" (secondary containment) threads

>>45366903
>tiny stab wound
through the heart

>>45374055
I will not tolerable 'Mu slander in this thread. She is a good girl that only wants a comfy life and to help Gensokyo. You should KYS (Kiss Your Shrine maiden)

>>45374055
Didn't you already post this?

>>45373857
ZUN isn't going to give a full breakdown on Mizuchi's backstory at all, maybe just some hints here and there just to let the theorycrafting happen.
He does this all the time, just so the fanbase can play around with the characters at their leisure.
The problem of course is CDS is not that popular, and Mizuchi is probably not going to be used much by the fandom at all.

>>45374101
I'll give her a kiss alright.

With my handgun!

>>45374587
Might have somewhere else.

>>45373650
Wonder if a flamethrower would work.

>>45375069
this is the real problem
touhou doesn't get as many non-h doujins, and the ones it does get are usually about the SDM, SA, PCB or IN cast, so it ends up that there's nothing to scratch the itch for character backstories because the fans aren't actually going to do it and the whole thing just ends up feeling unsatisfying as a result
I don't think we're going to get ANYTHING from Mizuchi's backstory, actually. I'm not convinced that ZUN even considers her an actual character. She's just a plot device to take us from game to game and have characters interact (and he can't even get that right because half the time the characters just stand around or don't actually talk to each other)

>>45375434
I mean... Zounose exists.

>>45375479
Zounose just does his own thing and he's a shock comic maker primarily. He's not the best unless you like his brand of story telling and overdoing it on the gore and dark tones

>>45375479
nta, but I liked his Yuuka series Doujins, but I'm not that big of a fan of how he writes the Moriyas, Myouren temple, and some of his other doujins like Last Supper, Odd Witch(?), and the shitty Sekibanki one also aren't to my taste.
Not to mention I don't like how me focuses so much on cannibalism or his Gensokyo overall , wish his Tewi one was translated

>>45375479
is that supposed to be a point in his favour? I'd rather have something more than edgewank goreshit

>>45353407
Detective Satori and it's consequences have been a disaster for Touhou canon

>>45375479
Zounose doesn't do much when it comes to backstories either. Some snippets here and there sure, but rarely a whole doujin dedicated to it. Which is as meaningful as that time we found out Kasen is a Sage and then... nothing.

>>45375479
>Zounose exists.
Yeah, that's part of the problem.

>>45376309
and then she never came back again

>>45375643
He's a good story teller and Touhou is a bit dark but he makes them all out to be a bit too cartoonishly evil, even the characters who aren't. The human concentration camp was just so far over the top.
>>45375678
>wish his Tewi one was translated
It looks good, shame there isn't any raws available or it would've been done by now. At least 3 doujins are only available in Chinese.

>>45375479
I'd say Fuuzasa is the real GOAT for doujins. He often sticks pretty close to canon too.

>>45376534
>Fuuzasa
His Tsukasa vore doujin was funny and I really likes how he writes Rumia, especially that recently translated doujin named "I'm on your side" on Danbooru.
Maribel and Rumia isn't a combo I wouldn't normally think of but I think he did it very well, he also writes the Myouren temple quite well when he does write them, which is always a plus for me.

>>45373839
that girl was a cold ass bitch

>>45376710
People give Reimu shut, but at least she's better than her predecessors, the blondie and the bluenette.
She seems to actually go out of her way to deal with youkai, looks out for potential trouble, and ports willing human she finds back outside.

>>45373717
sorry, but...

>>45375643
>>45375678
>>45376309
It was mostly me damning by faint praise.

Frankly though, I don't hate Zounose. But he also really doesn't stick to canon any more than your average cutesokyo fan.

>>45376520
>but he makes them all out to be a bit too cartoonishly evil
Agree. Which is pretty impressive considering what they are like in canon. I also just dislike the way he portrays human villagers and youkai in general

>>45377163
How doesn't Zounouse keep pretty close to cannon?
Other than the explicit human farm I can't think of much stuff off the top of my head that violates the cannon of Gensokyo.

>>45376534
>He often sticks pretty close to canon too.
Yeah.

Even if Orin is acting out of character in the new doujin.

For all of it's flaws, I am happy ZUN is finally trying to make a actual action manga. It's something I would probably try to do as well, at least in doujin form, if I knew how to draw.

>>45377225
Speaking as someone who like his works, I think the most egregious part of his writing is making practically everyone more inhuman than they otherwise are in canon.
The more obvious example would be Marisa, who is far more detached from her humanity than literally any other depiction I've seen of her.

And of course there's the whole "every youkai eat human" thing.

>>45377359
Marisa is the worst offender since, despite being flawed as fuck, she is actually pretty likeable in canon.

In general I find touhou tends to run into the issue where I don't care what happens to these people. You could show most of the cast getting slaughtered in graphic detail and I would probably not care much outside of basic empathy. Canon generally doesn't care much about this since it's comedic farce. But when you dramatize the universe and then expect me to care about what happens, it's a pretty tough sell. It's why I tend to prefer Zounose when he focuses on black comedy.

>And of course there's the whole "every youkai eat human" thing.
It's weird since it both absolves the characters of a lot of personal guilt and darkens the setting as a whole.

>>45377359
>Speaking as someone who like his works, I think the most egregious part of his writing is making practically everyone more inhuman than they otherwise are in canon.
They're youkai, they aren't human. Even in cannon they're complete moral black holes who only care about humans as a source of sustenance.
They are literally a species of amoral anti-social assholes.

>The more obvious example would be Marisa, who is far more detached from her humanity than literally any other depiction I've seen of her.
It's hard to get more detached from humanity than trying to abandon it to become a youkai. Reimu may be a piece of shit but at least she'll kill Marisa eventually.

>>45377495
>They're youkai, they aren't human.
NTA, but he explicitly brings up Marisa as a example. Obviously the actual Youkai can act as inhuman as they want. Though he does often break canon in the process.

>It's hard to get more detached from humanity than trying to abandon it to become a youkai.
The joke about Marisa is that she wants to become a Youkai despite obviously not actually being detached. Up to and including still having daddy issues like a fucking little kid. Reimu is genuinly way more detached and could probably watch a outsider get strangled to death without blinking.

>>45377526
>The joke about Marisa is that she wants to become a Youkai despite obviously not actually being detached. Up to and including still having daddy issues like a fucking little kid. Reimu is genuinly way more detached and could probably watch a outsider get strangled to death without blinking.
Being a failure of a traitor to humanity is no less a sin than being a traitor to humanity, not to mention she fraternizes with youkai all the time.
She a thief and a criminal and just because she's not very good at being evil doesn't make her a better person.

>>45377553
I would say it does make her the better person, just not a good one. Which, I mostly think she isn't. She would be a flawed unlikely anti hero in literally every other franchise.

Either way, the point was about detachment and in that respect I do think Zounose very much misunderstands her character. He does seem to get Reimu and Yukari though, even if he also makes Yukari too genuinly competent as a villain. Which, granted, was the fandom line for a long ass time. It's only recently that people have come to accept her as kind of a stupid fuck up pretend Youkai.

>>45377587
I would just call Zounose Marisa more successful, she's less of a failure and therefore a worse person, but cannon Marisa would do the same things if she was in her position.

>>45377587
that last part was unnecessary!

>>45377624
Arguably? I don't know, I could never see canon Marisa accepting the human villagers offering people as sacrifice. Though, granted, the same is true for the human villagers.

Either way, her being more successful is kind of missing the point. Part of the joke of Reimu and marisa as a duo is that they want what the other one has. Marisa wants to be as cold and detached as Reimu, while Reimu wants to be a mostly normal girl in nature.

>>45377642
It's not.

Yukari being a fuck up is a central part of her character. It's the very line that stops her from actually being unpleasant. Remove it, and she's basically a glorified shounen villain.

>>45375434
>touhou doesn't get as many non-h doujins
I think you are mistaken.
Touhou, and most popular franchises that are not the current lewd gacha game for that matter, get a much larger percentage of non-h doujins than hentai ones.
Also, while I agree the games you posted do get the bulk of them, we see even manga characters get their fair of the spotlight like Kasen and Kosuzu, and even Miyoi has a small following.
But Mizuchi is definitly not going to be one of them, just do to the fact of how divisive CDS is. It's almost as bad as SSiB before people actually read CoLR.

>>45377687
Mizuchi also feels too actually attached to the plot to ever be featured much. Her very existence is a incident in itself.

>>45375376
Reimu is a good girl at heart that has a stressful thankless job. She deserves to be kissed and hugged and would probably melt into a puddle of you did so. She's not a bad girl, just a little strange is all.

>>45377479
>It's why I tend to prefer Zounose when he focuses on black comedy
His horror/drama is also pretty fun.

>>45377526
>Reimu
Funny you mention that, aside from Kaminare, Reimu comes off more like a people person than Marisa is. It's like Zounose somehow got the script switched for both and then just run with it.

>>45377702
>His horror/drama is also pretty fun.
Like I said, the drama doesn't land for me because I don't care about anybody. I kind of just want to watch Gensokyo burn down to the ground. Even more than I do for canon Gensokyo.

>It's like Zounose somehow got the script switched for both and then just run with it.
It's funny since it's a mistake that even most fanon works don't seem to make. It's not like how everybody always mixed up Aerith and Tifa before the remake more or less reminded them what they were actually like.

>>45377687
what can you do with a Vengeful spirit whose whole existence was spent hidden tho? at least Miyoi talks to people and knows some of them, ghost only shows up in the end of the arc, says an edgy line, and then leaves.

>>45377661
>Yukari being a fuck up is a central part of her character. It's the very line that stops her from actually being unpleasant. Remove it, and she's basically a glorified shounen villain.
She is a glorified shounen villian, being a fuck up of a time traveling high school girl doesn't make her any less evil, she's worse than most youkai which is a pretty high bar, but entirely expected from a filthy traitor like her.

>>45377763
>what can you do with a Vengeful spirit whose whole existence was spent hidden tho
Basically just go into her backstory, not much else.

Does it count as copying a character when you literally had the exact same idea for a character like this before she even existed for a fanfic turned novel?

>>45377773
>being a fuck up of a time traveling high school girl doesn't make her any less evil
Correct, but it adds an element of farce and patheticness that keeps her from being just a straightforward "Love to hate" villain.

>>45377797
>Correct, but it adds an element of farce and patheticness that keeps her from being just a straightforward "Love to hate" villain.
What's there to even "Love to gate" about the gappy piece os shit, having a backstory as a human doesn't add any more dimensions to her character, she's still a piece of shit who needs to die like every other youkai regardless.

>>45377819
>What's there to even "Love to gate" about the gappy piece os shit
I think it's kind of endearing that she's basically a college student larping as a monster. It's even funnier to me that nobody takes her seriously. With actual Youkai just thinking she's a attention seeking whore.

Does she deserve to die? Sure. Is she ever going to die? No. So, might as well enjoy her being a dumb miserable screw up who is secretly alone.

Just realized this is the first time a Youkai doesn't pass out after Mizuchi leaves her body

>>45377763
For one, the story should've moved on from making another wild goose chase arc after her reveal.

>>45377780
It doesn't, but that probably won't stop people from acting like you did because you can't prove otherwise.

>>45377860
Mizuchi's powers change to suit the story and the story called for satori to explain the plan so she just happens to not pass out this time

>>45377870
To be fair, I doubt anybody will remember CDS in ten years. or however long it takes me to finish like ten novels.

>>45377773
Traitor?

>>45377860
As part of her powerset, Satori is immune to passing out from anything that's not mind-reading exertion.
ZUN told me through fax.

I do like the idea of Satori as a Shonen protagonist.

She just needs to eat more.

>>45377897
She became a youkai, she betrayed humanity just like Marisa is planning too do and that fake corrupt nun byakuren did.

>>45377860
That thing about her possessing others through drinking was forgotten and she only possesses it normally now

>>45377909
Just throw a crucifix and holy water at them

>>45377701
Her position and job is evil. Otherwise she's not that bad.

>>45377958
Evil is evil Anon, don't make any excuses for her, she's just as much a traitor to humanity for propping up Gensokyo.
The only good thing she could ever do is kill yukari then herself but the selfish bitch is unwilling to.

>>45377225
He gets a lot of characters wrong and overdoes certain aspects and downplays others. There are also just some straight up mistakes.

>>45377860
CDS is a mess of a story.
I hope at the end we pull back to see it was all a novel written by Satori, and never actually took place.

>>45377923
CDS got more dropped plot point than that time I dropped my doujin draft.

>>45375434
Then you are not looking hard enough
You can check niy for Sekibanki content, or if you prefer to see some WBaWC to UM content, I can recommend this guy https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/173260/illustrations

>>45377974
Wait a second, this is filthy Moriya propaganda, isn't?

>>45377974
>she's just as much a traitor to humanity for propping up Gensokyo.
>>45377974
>she's just as much a traitor to humanity for propping up Gensokyo.
That may be true but in my client's defense she is too naive to realize that she is actually working for youkai (she doesn't even know the name of the god of Hakurei Shrine)

>>45378022
ops

>>45378000
What was your favorite plot point that was dropped? I liked Yuyuko having a giggle at the idea of Youkai mountain blowing its top and forcing the human villagers into her spirit domain.

>>45378010
Gods are basically youkai and the Moriyas are just as guilty as any youkai for engaging in Gensokyo and not quietly accepting their deaths in the outside world.
This goes for all of the other gods who are taking advantage of the human villagers for their own personal gain.

>>45377958
She's saved all of Gensokyo multiple times over. She protects the village. She is a good girl that does all she can. Appreciate and donate to the shrine maiden, now!

>>45377773
You are literally spouting headcanon

>>45378062
Shut the fuck up and read the discussion we were having, Yukari being a human/maribel is a basis we were starting from.
It is a conceit of our discussion and not something up to debate.
I'm saying that in that situation where she is Maribel that doesn't make Yukari any more nuanced, interesting, or dynamic of a character.
She still the same subhuman she's always been.

Mizuchi finally reveals herself to Reimu.
And does nothing, says nothing, and doesn't even look at her.
Shouldn't this have been the moment her grievances have been let loose? You know, since she is a wraith. The embodiment of a grudge and everything, one that hates Reimu, and maybe the entire Hakurei line.

Just round up the main six, strip them from theie clothes, flog them until they lose consciousness and become a crimson mess and crucify them in the grounds of the Hakurei Shrine for everyone to see.

Btw, latest chapter added one more mystery, Mizuchi apparently is wary of Byakuren for unknown reason

>>45378061
>She's saved all of Gensokyo multiple times over
That's bad.

>She protects the village.
That's called a protection racket.

>>45378022
That's fair.

>>45378130
Zun needs to go more violent. You think a Jojo/Dragon Ball fag would realize that.

>>45378143
Given her affinity with youkai, Bykauren is the pinnacle of Mizuchi's worst dreams, a person who willingly promotes youkai and human harmony in favor of the former. She could have also met her when she was sealed in Hell and was shocked to see her free on the surface.

>>45378163
Flan should have given marisa the Kakoyin treatment.

>>45378177
Marisa does seem like she would go out like either Vegeta or Kakyoin.

Also, master spark would basically be the emerald splash of Touhou if it went full Shounen.

>>45378153
So Reimu is because she regularly solves incidents that endanger all the humans in Gensokyo and also protects the village from other threats?

>>45378143
I wouldn't be surprised if Byakuren just went MiA after this. It seems like after the incident starters get their few chapters in, they get pushed to the side and the next game cast is brought in.

>>45378153
>That's fair.
That's not fair, being a retard isn't a defense especially when she willingly and knowingly goes out of her way to oppress the villagers.
She's just as guilty or complicit as Kasen, Yukari, or Okina.
The only people who are half-way decent in Gensokyo are the nameless human mobs and even then they would probably be better off dead.

>>45355738
Remind me again, where did the mima bones thing came from?

>>45378198
Reimu is bad because she protects the villagers from things that wouldn't exist if the barrier she maintains was gone.

>>45378210
>Willingly and knowingly
I actually seriously doubt that.

>>45378222
>I actually seriously doubt that.
Does the death Fortune Teller mean anything to you?
He might be guilty for betraying humanity, but that doesn't stop the fact the Reimu's killing of human works for the purpose of maintaining Gensokyo.

>>45378241
>Does the death Fortune Teller mean anything to you?
The thing about that is that I don't think Reimu was ideologically motivated. It's just the rule and she follows it eagerly. She doesn't have much of a personal issue with people turning into Youkai.

>but that doesn't stop the fact the Reimu's killing of human works for the purpose of maintaining Gensokyo.
Sure. I just don't think she realizes that. Reimu is a strong case of always assuming stupidity over malice.

>>45378241
In her head she would be protecting humans by killing FT, as he would be putting the gensokyo balance at risk, she doesn't realize that this balance is bad for humans

>>45378253
>The thing about that is that I don't think Reimu was ideologically motivated. It's just the rule and she follows it eagerly. She doesn't have much of a personal issue with people turning into Youkai.
She's literally ideologically motivated, did you actually read WaHH?

>Sure. I just don't think she realizes that. Reimu is a strong case of always assuming stupidity over malice.
Stupidity is no defense when she willing oppresses them anyways, she's still the same scum as any youkai.

>>45378163
I really wish CDS wasn’t a detective manga. The new artist really REALLY love drawing action scenes for some reason and I like those
Also there’s the random display of physical feats
>Flandre choking Meiling
>Reimu catching up with Aya’s speed and punched a hole through her bag with just one swing of the gohei
>Aya can take off immediately and is so fast she leave shockwave
>Byakuren effortlessly throw Flandre through the roof
>Marisa withstood being thrown around by Flandre
>Sayori heal from wounds instantly

>>45378222
Sure, she could try to destroy the barrier and endanger many of the youkai she knows that have never been shown to harm humans, throw the villagers into a world they don't understand and paint a target on her back for destroying the home she's known her whole life. But she won't.

Man. anon here is qualifed to become a vengeful spirit later

>>45378292
>did you actually read WaHH?
Yeah? I don't remember her being very ideologically motivated in that story. Nor FS, for that matter.

>Stupidity is no defense when she willing oppresses them anyways
Like I said, willingly implies she understands what she is doing.

If you executed Reimu for crimes against humanity, she would probably spend her last few minutes crying and genuinly not understanding what she did wrong.

>>45378038
Ah yes, the whole underground temperature rising thing.
Well at least Mizuchi moved underground so maybe, big maybe, that will come into play.

Anyway, remember when Hatate was in the manga and did something but that ends up being a load of nothing?

>>45378306
>and endanger many of the youkai she knows that have never been shown to harm humans
I mean, Aunn would be fine. There's Kogasa as well, but she obviously doesn't give a fuck about her.

> throw the villagers into a world they don't understand
Most of them fucking love the outside world and want to be there.

>paint a target on her back for destroying the home she's known her whole life.
The human villagers would literally be eternally grateful. Youkai less so, but whatever.

>>45378324
>Yeah? I don't remember her being very ideologically motivated in that story. Nor FS, for that matter.
The narration literally states it's her belief, it doesn't even talk about any rule or law, we can just assume the existence of such based on Reimu's personal beliefs.

>If you executed Reimu for crimes against humanity, she would probably spend her last few minutes crying and genuinly not understanding what she did wrong.
Reimu legitimately lacks to emotional depth to do so, she's basically a youkai for all she does for them and deserves the same fate all youkai deserve, erasure from existence as they are killed and forgotten.

>>45378331
Pretty fucked up considering it was a bait to make you think Mizuchi was the reason her power wasn't working, but it was just Yukari...

>>45378298
I think the detective part is fine as long as it gets us to the fight scenes. It doesn't have to be some kind of sherlock holmes story. Though, I must admit, that is a pretty cool idea, I never really got the sense that is what the manga was going for.

As is, it's kind of a weird middle ground where it's neither t a cool Touhou fight manga with a detective theme or a actual mystery story. For the former to work it needed to have a few more smaller self contained stories where Satori solves crimes. Like an person gets murdered in the Human village by another villager and Satori gets involved. Or the SDM has shit stolen and for once Marisa isn't the culprit.

Why was FS and WaHH so good?

>>45378344
>The narration literally states it's her belief,
Where?

>it doesn't even talk about any rule or law,
She herself calls it a law after she kills FT.

>Reimu legitimately lacks to emotional depth to do so
She's childish and dumb, sure. But I do think she genuinly believes she's doing the right thing.

>>45378365
They weren't.

FS tried and certainly had it's moments but ultimately suffered from the leads not being likeable. WaHH was probably the best, but it's also very aimless and not a lot happens.

>>45378331
classic Hatate

>>45378365
Kasen and Kosuzu.
LE follows the same format as them, but Miyoi is just not that interesting. Still far better than CDS by a mile.

>>45378390
I don't really like Kosuzu to be honest. She's kind of a selfish bitch and doesn't really learn anything. I also think it was a huge wasted opportunity since it was a chance to actually get a perspective from a normal villager. But nah, she's a selfish twat as well that doesn't really seem to have any connections or friends.

>>45378390
The problem with miyoi is she's not curious and she doesn't go anywhere. You constantly had kosuzu trying to learn more about the world and she got into all kinds of trouble to bring reimu and the others into action, but miyoi just wants to bartender. She doesn't want to know more about anything, she doesn't really feel a desire to do anything that might cause trouble, and as a result, when reimu actually does get involved with her, it's just a coincidence
The story would be better if it was more explicitly from someone else's perspective and just featured miyoi

>>45378309
Indeed

>>45378365
>>45378378
For me SSiB and FS are the best

>>45378405
I find it funny how Miyoi honestly does a better job making us see what the human village is actually like than Kosuzu. Otherwise, I do agree.

Suika and Mami tend to end up doing more than her most of the time.

>>45378405
When you think about it, Miyoi became the side character of her own manga. Every chapter is actually about the 2 old men telling random legends/myth they know to her, which will in turn lead to either Aya or Mamizou eventually explain the truth behind it. When you put it that way it’s Mamizou who is the MC instead, or even the 2 old men

>>45378405
Kosuzu and kasen really seemed like the protagonists, while miyoi has almost no action, does nothing other than have dialogue (the last two bee chapters are a good example)

>>45378440
Unironically, I would read a manga about those two old men.

So, should we execute Reimu and Marisa for siding against humanity? Or should we make them realize they were used by greedy youkai?

I feel Miyoi would work better if there was genuine tension. Like a sense that if she makes the wrong move or says the wrong thing, she's going to get violently booted out of the human village.

>>45378367
My fuck up I meant FS, here's the page.

>She's childish and dumb, sure. But I do think she genuinly believes she's doing the right thing.
Please, she almost entirely a youkai mentally, she even fears the advancements of the outside world and purposefully props up a system which tortures humans for her own benefit.
She's pure evil and has the depth of a puddle.

>>45378468
Marisa is mostly on the side of humans despite everything. Reimu... I say give it a try. Don't expect it to work though.

I'm gonna just start replying to spergs seething about reimu with 'Mizuchianon...'

>>45378480
To be fair, I do think this makes a pretty good case for her being a just straight bad person.

I used to despise Reimu, so much I was known as Reimuhater. Nowadays I've calmed considerably towards her because she's just too fucking dumb in canon. I find it very hard to attribute malice to her actions.

>>45378332
There are also all the other youkai that are friendly towards humans. Sure, many villagers might be interested in the outside world but if you dropped them in modern day Japan most of them would have no idea what to do. Yes, the youkai would be upset with her destroying Gensokyo and the ones that could survive are mostly the ones that could cause her issue. Sanae might be angry at her for putting Moriya shrine at risk again. Marisa would want to die rather then live in the magicless Outside World.

>>45378365
People did hate on those people back when it was still in-going tho. A lot too

>>45378484
>Marisa is mostly on the side of humans despite everything

>>45378468
Immediate death, just like for any youkai, lunarian, celestial, god, or non-human.
The only way humans can propser is in a world without those creatures and them and all of their sympathizers need to be killed.

>>45378515
>There are also all the other youkai that are friendly towards humans.
Like? The spies Yukari sends into the Human Village?

>Sure, many villagers might be interested in the outside world but if you dropped them in modern day Japan most of them would have no idea what to do.
I imagine Japan would probably help them out. Country is cold, but not entirely heartless.

>Sanae might be angry at her for putting Moriya shrine at risk again.
Sure, but I doubt she would try and kill Reimu.

>Marisa would want to die rather then live in the magicless Outside World.
I think she would get over it to be honest.

Honestly, the only reason this is a issue is because the barrier can be destroyed with no consequences in canon. It's why In my fanfic turned novel I just made it so that destroying the barrier killed everybody.

>>45378496
I wish Mizuchi seethed about Reimu as much as Mizuchianon.

>>45378521
Marisa seriously considered becoming one of Okina's servants and we don't actually know if they were abducted. They might just be people like FS who willingly agreed to do this.

Issue here is, as usual, lack of backstory.

>>45378521
Freedom cannot be forced on other. It must be earned for oneself.

>>45378573
Judging my Okina being a god of impairments they were probably disabled girls she took advantage of and forced into an unbreakable contract.
Of course now that they aren't useful to her anymore she's looking for replacements like Cirno and Marisa.

>>45378587
Again, could be. We don't know.

Not to give Okina too much benefit of the doubt. But until we actually learn anything they might just be power hungry sisters.

>>45378593
You give Okina too much credit, she's a god, basically just an up jumped youkai.
All they do is take advantage of people for personal power.

>>45378601
Fair. Still not going to judge Marisa for it.

As bad as it is. I find it funny that this manga is always the one that reaches the thread limit sometimes.

>>45378617
Because it actually gives people something to talk about.

>>45378616
Dumb fake traitor witch should just lobotomize herself already like her and Byakuren talking about in SoPM.

Taoistbros...we never get screen time...

If ZUN is ever going to do a straight up Shounen fight series, the premise should be that Nemuno raises a random outsider kid to basically be a modern day Kintoki. Not realizing that modern Gensokyo can't really afford having somebody like that around.

>>45378651
To appear in this mess of a manga would be to stray from the Dao

>>45378651
They are too big of a inconvenience for ZUN.
Seeing how they are literal litches, and an angry spook too, Mizuchi wouldn't be able to do anything to them.

>>45378681
Miko will just talk it out with Mizuchi and converts her into the harem.

>>45378681
I like the idea of Miko showing up, talking with her, and then realizing that she agrees with her on Gensokyo being bad.

>>45378681
But I wanted to see futo..

>>45378553
Lots of youkai are content to just hang around and not harm humans. Keine, Miyoi, etc. Even ones like the Primrivers would rather go around playing music instead of mauling people. Sanae would be incredibly angry at Reimu's betrayal. She was a friend of hers that took a action knowing it would end in the death of her gods. I can't imagine Marisa giving up on magic to have a 9 to 5 job at a convenience store, or any other job.

>>45378707
>Keine
Half youkai.

>Miyoi
Don't know enough about her right now.

>Sanae would be incredibly angry at Reimu's betrayal.
She's pro human enough to understand.

>I can't imagine Marisa giving up on magic to have a 9 to 5 job at a convenience store, or any other job.
She's studious as fuck. She'll be fine.

>>45378681
I just want the prince to show up even for a few pages anon...

>>45378581
Ok Blade Wolf

>>45378723
>She's pro human enough to understand.
Sanae is still a living god and takes as much advantage of the humans of Genoskyos as any Youkai does.
Not to mention she's also responsible for the crimes of those corrupt goddess she follows mindlessly due to her association with them.
And it gets worse due to her being an outside world human.
In some respects she's worse than Marisa honestly.

>>45378754
>Sanae is still a living god and takes as much advantage of the humans of Genoskyos as any Youkai does.
Eh? Mabye? I don't remember her ever doing much that is actually bad. Her goddess are more questionable, but it's not like they agree with everything. She's gone against Suwako, basically her mom, in the past.

>>45378765
She's worse because she doesn't need faith to live, she's taking advantage of the humans but purely for personal gain and not for survival.
And since she knows of the conditions of the outside world she knows how good the villagers could have it but decided to take advantage of them all the same.

>>45378780
>She's taking advantage of the humans
How? It's not like she's maintaining the barrier.

>>45378544
Oh yeah, because a human-ruled world has proven to be a harmonious reality.
>Looks at the current zones of conflict and the deep statea ruling many countries.

Like I said before
>>45378130
Getting rid of the main protectors of Genaokyo is the only way forward.

>>45378797
It is better than Gensokyo. Outside world is flawed, but Gensokyo is just the outside world but worse.

>>45378723
Come on man. Keine works to protect the village. She's a boss because she thinks you're going to attack the village and stops you. She teaches children. She's on the side of humans.iyoi just wants to stay out of trouble and enjoy her newfound freedom and serve drinks. Sanae is definitely loyal to her gods and would hate Reimu for endangering them out of the blue. Marisa is a smart girl, sure. But she lives and breathes magic. She likes living in the woods and spending all day on magic studies. She doesn't want to change that.

>>45378808
>Main six
Reimu, Marisa, sanae, Youmu, Sakuya, and...

Uh...

Reisen?

>>45378786
She exists with and profits from the system of oppression the villagers exist under.
A real human, somebody deserving of humanity would try to work to help the villagers unlike scum like sanae.

>>45378829
I guess? Honestly, she mostly seems to help so I'm willing to be mostly on her side. She doesn't seem to profit much personally.

>>45378842
She literally gets superpowers from existing within Gensokyo, her chuuni ass only cares about herself and her own gain.

>>45378828
Ran, don't forget she was included as one of the four main characters in UDoALG

>>45378862
>Ran
Oh, fair enough.

She is Yukari's flunky.

>>45378815
>It's better than Gensokyo.
I doubt that a same species commiting countless atrocities against itself worldwide is worse than a glorified human-youkai zoo in a remote area of Japan, at least they have a reason to keep Gensokyo as it is while while the rest of the planet has lost any common sense. Having a holier-than-thou attitude towards them is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
Screw Gensokyo, screw the Earth and the Moon, I stand with my true Emperor of Space to wipe the universe from all known life.

>>45378902
>I doubt that a same species commiting countless atrocities against itself worldwide is worse than a glorified human-youkai zoo in a remote area of Japan
Well, it is.

Don't know what else to say. Yeah, it's probably better to be in gensokyo now than it is to be in, say, Yemen. But I would rather live in rural Indonesia than Gensokyo.

>>45378929
Don't be stupid, in Yemen you actually have a chance at escape and won't spend the rest of your life being tortured for the amusement of sub-human monsters who want nothing but to see you suffer.

>>45378953
There's a joke here about Isreal.

Well, regardless. You are arguably right.

Getting into canon was a mistake. I wish I stayed a secondary.

>>45378960
>You are arguably right.
I'm not arguably right, I'm correct, the human village would be better off if it was nuked off the map with the rest of Gensokyo and the humans could reincarnate into a world without shit-okyo.

>>45378964
Canon is like being blue balled for all eternity. Though, to be fair, there is a element of "You brought this on yourself".

We are basically the male version of the people that were still convinced Sherlock and Watson were going to get together after Season 3 of Sherlock.

*Yawn*

>>45378984
I would say the human villagers might be able to escape as well. Though it would be harder than Yemen.

>>45378996
Harder is an understatement, the hakurei barrier isn't physical it's conceptual and logical, anything that falls into the category of rejected by the outside is let in and everything outside of that has a very hard time of entering.

No wonder youkai oppress humanity of this is how you act when you get uppity.

How about you go and actually live in that place rather than critizice without an actual idea of what you're saying. You're like those armchair communists that say Cuba or North Korea are paradises from the comfort of their houses in the US or Europe.
And to the other retard-kun, it's easier said than done. Good luck escaping from a shithole like Venezuela while being hunted by gang criminals or the government thugs.
So behave like good guys and cease your annoying senseless barking at once for God's sake.
This ain't not shitty /pol/and, this is /jp/onkyo. Now get the fuck out and eat these Yin-yang balls

>>45379012
Cuba is actually pretty based. North Korea less so, though it is experiencing a economic boom right now due to very easy reasons.

Either way, we don't know what it's like to live in Gensokyo either since it's not real. ZUN is also too lazy to actually think about what it would be like to live in the human village.

>>45379012
Go back to your containment threads and stop shitting up actual cannon discussion cutesokyo fag.

>>45379026
>An unironic armchair communist
And I thought Byakuren was bad. Go back to leftypol.
>>45379029
Make me faggot, you have no power here.

>>45379037
I can't make you do shit, know where and when you're not wanted autist.

>>45379037
>Armchair communist
Nah. I just don't trust most of the nonsense the USA spouts about Cuba.

>>45378987
I don't watch TV shows, but I think I get you.
>>45379029
First, it's "canon", it's not artillery
Second, canon just sucks. Grimsokyo = Cutesokyo > Canonsokyo

>>45379055
Canon Gensokyo is fine but undercooked. It's like a nice roast that just isn't quite finished and the cook can't be bothered to shove it into the oven.

Grimsokyo tends to be way too depressing and double the unlikability of most of the cast.

Cutesokyo is just bland. Especially with Gacha being a thing, I would rather just read BA doujins.

>>45379055
If you aren't interested in having actual discussions about touhou instead of whatever shit you headcanon then don't enter actual on topic canon discussion threads.

Stop fucking up the thread and tell me what you think will happen in the next chapter
Since they completed the objective of arresting mizuchi again I think now it will be focused on her trying to escape again or reveal her past (hopefully)

>>45379047
The only autist here is you and the other cunt arguing about pointless shit harder than the maggots at Twitter, Tumblr and Something Awful as if your life depended of it.
>>45379049
People like you should get the gas chamber.

>>45379082
>People like you should get the gas chamber.
Why? Because I have doubt about the USA's propaganda machine?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but there is literally not a group on earth more involved with crime and actual genocides than the so called Cuban exiles.

>>45379082
>pointless shit
It's called Touhou, maybe you should play the games sometime instead of shitting up this thread and jp as a whole with your non-canon shit.

>>45379080
We can go mant ways from here onwards
>Mizuchi could get interrogated and could attempt to break free again, probably leading to a final showdown with Reimu where her backstory might be revealed.
>We could get a hint to why it seemed she was acting in two places at the same time, with or without osteoporosis in the process.
>Given that Reimu believes Mizuchi's name could be fake the story could focus for a bit about following that idea and finding out who Mizuchi really is. Since Satori is in charge of the vengeful spirits she could help to find out her real identity.

>>45379080
god i hope so, this is also the 2nd she shows up in her real form personally, other than the time with Mokou

>>45366857
This sounds like a stretch when I'm pretty sure that lots of myths involve youkai dying from being beheaded or disembowelled by the human protagonists. Some youkai are even notoriously weak, such as the amanojaku, which relied entirely on trickery and only managed to kill a particularly naïve woman, but was easily overpowered and slain by a normal human male.

I mean sure, they end up popping into Gensokyo as if nothing happened, but that's just ZUN diverging heavily from the original myths, where youkai were much more physical entities instead of being mostly magic. And even then, Touhou establishes that there's plenty of youkai with weak bodies, such as magicians.
I really don't buy that a notorious shut-in such as Satori would just walk away from such a blow unscathed. It's all rather silly.

>>45379120
>Given that Reimu believes Mizuchi's name could be fake
when she says this?

>>45379139
It's too late for Satori, bring up the wheelchair for her.

>>45379069
Different strokes for different folks, I kinda like the "literally just canon except not all characters are evil assholes" approach. And, to be honest, building an entire setting around boring chill stuff seems like an interesting idea to me.
>Grimsokyo tends to be way too depressing and double the unlikability of most of the cast.
I've seen a lot more grim works where characters ar more likable than canon

>>45379080
ZUN grinning at himself writing the last chapter of this dogshit manga like an idiot

>>45375434
>touhou doesn't get as many non-h doujins
Absolutely incorrect, newfag take. Touhou doujins are VERY primarily non-h. The main reason why there's a lot of h-doujins is that there's a lot of Touhou doujins being made in general, and that the west don't often see non-h doujins scanned.

>>45379144

>>45379098
>>45379101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afkN9H9aLow

>>45379229
Weird strawman. But if we are going to quote Deus Ex, I have a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAFryoa6Po

>>45379341
Out of my sight Pippa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxtbL86lIIc

>>45379170
>I kinda like the "literally just canon except not all characters are evil assholes" approach.
It depends. I think the moment you start whitewashing characters like Rumia, Mystia, and ESPECIALLY Yukari it just gets a bit silly. Making Reimu more friendly is fine though.

>I've seen a lot more grim works where characters ar more likable than canon
Sure. But you do have examples that make it work.

>>45379139
>This sounds like a stretch when I'm pretty sure that lots of myths involve youkai dying from being beheaded or disembowelled by the human protagonists
A lot of "Human" protagonists were either demigods, empowered by a god, wielding magical weapons, or any other reasons. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but on average it's not THAT hard to explain.

>but was easily overpowered and slain by a normal human male.
He's was a prince or lord in what basically ancient Japan. Shit was magical back then. Hell, most of the nobles literally believed they were descended from Youkai or gods. Which, going by Touhou, means they were.

>>45379139
It's far from a stretch. The vast majority of youkai are born from emotions and abstract ideas.
There's actually a lot of explanation that's spread within Touhou canon on Youkai and God physiology, and Youkai being extremely resistant from pure physical attacks has been mentioned long ago. They will even straight up resurrect from death if they get killed. Kasen did this, too.

>>45379354
It really just depends on how much creative liberties you can tolerate. I, for one, woudn't mind any white and/or blackwashing as long as it makes sense within this writer's version of Touhou.

>>45379354
Rumia's primary characteristic is that she can easily catch and kill humans but is to lazy to do anything but fly aimlessly in unnecessary dark bubble. Mystia's talks a big game but her usual interaction with them is selling food.
I mean I wouldn't want to be the rare lost outsider there but most common Youkai seem to realize they aren't going to be dining on humans but play up their "scary nature" because that is how they survive spiritually.
I think the most obvious indication is that no one has offered Marisa in her sleep and we've seen enough village investigations to know that Youkai if they were serious could get away with so much more.

>>45379354
Honestly I just think we need more doujins and fanfic about Gensokyo being exterminated, it's not like they don't deserve it and more people need to be introduced to cannon rather than the sanitized cutesokyo shit.

>>45379501
Why are you so obsessed with artillery?

>>45379527
Artillery is pretty cool, Gensokyo should be bombarded by it.

Also, I never minded Touhou's approach of having "unlikable" assholes. In fact, it's what makes the series work, despite it's extremely large cast.
Touhou cast would be far harder to invidualize if they were good people. Their personalities and motivations would cannibalize each other, like literally every single gacha out there. The only difference between many of them would be their designs and a schtick.
Selfish characters are self-serving. They have their own reasons for living and for existing. This many separate factions, like SDM, Chireiden, Gouyouku Alliance, etc. can only exist because 2hus by their nature are self-serving.
So many interesting non-h doujins and character relationships, fanon or canon, can only exist because Touhou characters are selfish characters. A group of "good" characters work (arguably) for Gacha because in Gacha, there's usually the player's group, the good guys, vs the enemy group, the bad guys. Touhou has all these group dynamics and factions that exist within it, because characters have their own wants that's not just "I want to FUCK shikikan" or "I want to save the world".
The point is, in a series with constant conflict and battles (even if they're "pretend" battles), if most characters were good, they would be working together constantly. In Touhou, people work together if their goals align, or if they were slighted by the incident, or if they were goaded into it. This makes it far more interesting than a generic "good" vs. "bad".

And a lot of Touhou characters aren't even that much of an asshole, either. They just have their own goals. They'd fight now, then they'd all get tea together and party until they've passed out tomorrow. It's the culture of Gensokyo.

>>45378929
>Living in an indonesian village
Hold on a second, I remember seeing this .comment before.
>>45312914
Aren't you the korean anon who was explosed that always claims Gensokyo is evil?

>>45379663
There are more than two of them, the one who admitted to it and posted the og screenshot, the other one who is also shitting up threads, and maybe this one >>45359790
That is if he's a different person than the first two.

>>45379572
I agree. All of what you say can be applied to any version of Touhou, canon or fanon, cute or grim. It's more about intent and implications.
Maybe this is just duckling syndrome. From games, earlier printworks (except DiPP) and interviews Touhou seemed like a very specific kind of setting, something one of a kind. Even the darker stuff seemed either like "necessary evil", or just shittalking. It felt so refreshing, I've never seen anything like it before. And then I get to FS, it all falls appart, and I've got nothing to fill the hole this made, besides the boring satire that is canon. It's like the setting that I liked never actualy existed.

>>45379699
I can understand if some people dislike Gensokyo's youkai and their agreement with the human village but honestly that guy (or those dudes if they're more than one sameposting) make things a little tense or straight up hostille and nonsensical to defend their views.

>>45379802
There are at least two, the "cannon"fag seems separate.

>>45379699
it's probably the most positive interaction koreanon gets since whenever he goes outside girls make this hand gesture at him

At least the Koreanons do get people talking around here, even if they become a little too passionate with hating youkai and gensokyo as a whole. It's a very fun read honestly.

>>45379572
To expand on this a bit further, let's give an example that's very popular. Reimu.
Turn Reimu into a good person. Like, imagine a hero from My Hero Academia.
Do you know how much the setting would break?
First off, a lot of people don't realize seem to realize this and seem to think characters just get created out of thin air, but could you think of how 98% of Touhou start off as?
They... start off as enemies. Almost all of them, even Marisa.
Ironically enough, in order for Reimu to be a good person, you would have to write the setting as more bleak and dark than it already is. You would have to write most characters as more evil, because if Reimu was a good person and exterminated (killed) youkais because "some people resurrected their priest", then she wouldn't be much of a good person. Every character Reimu runs into and beats up while on her way to the incident would HAVE to be written as a more evil character. Else Reimu wouldn't be a very good person, wouldn't she?
Either that, or the Reimu would settle very many of the game incidents... by talking. She wouldn't need to fight at all. The plots of 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, and 18 could be theoretically be resolved by just talking to people. How exciting and very much like Touhou, to talk things out.
For the games to still be a thing, you'd have to write more intrinsically, actually evil people as antagonists.
Next is character relationships. If all 2hus but Raymoo were unchanged, Reimu would interact with extremely little characters from the games. The only characters in the Hakurei Shrine would be Kosuzu, Keine, human villager #17 and maybe Kogasa and Hina.
You wanted each character to still have the same relationships the same way they do before Reimu became a "good person"? Then you'd have to write some convoluted and probably retarded redemption arc for each of them.
Eiki? Wants Youkai to be more proactive on doing youkai things. Moriya Shrine? Allies with Tengu. Yuyuko? Best friends with Yukari. Byakuren? A youkai symphatizer. Miko? Keeps Seiga and Yoshika around.
There's far more to it than you think, and this could continue. Reimu's personality and goals are what keeps Touhou, Touhou.
A lot of people like to pitch ideas thinking it would be "better" without realizing how much would change with that idea. It would be far more hilariously worse if all the human characters were good instead of just Reimu.
>>45379757
What do you mean? If anything, FS reinforced the idea of 2hus being self-serving.

>>45379497
It's why I said "Especially Yukari."

You can hypothetically say Rumia is too lazy to actually catch anybody, you can argue Mystia might just be hot air. There is no defending Yukari.

>>45379500
>I think the most obvious indication is that no one has offered Marisa in her sleep
Who would honestly be interested in that? Patchouli, perhaps, and the lazy bint can't get even out of bed.

>and we've seen enough village investigations to know that Youkai if they were serious could get away with so much more.
Define "So much more". Try and remember that if the human village snapped, everybody would pay the price.

>>45379572
>Their personalities and motivations would cannibalize each other
I strongly disagree. Most of them have very similar personalities and motivations. Making some of them actually motivated by wanting to do good or even just not being terrible people would fix that.

>The only difference between many of them would be their designs and a schtick.
1: They kind of already are. 2: That is 100% how the fandom threats them.

> They have their own reasons for living and for existing.
The problem is they don't. In fact, they don't have many motivations at all. Most of them are explicitly defined by not being motivated. Nor is much focus placed on their motivation anyway.

>A group of "good" characters work (arguably) for Gacha because in Gacha, there's usually the player's group, the good guys, vs the enemy group, the bad guys.
Most Gacha games have mostly good characters. It works because most of what people want, and what you will mostly find in the Touhou fandom as well, is porn and slice of life.

To make matters worse, actual drama doesn't work because nobody really cares if bad things happen to cannon characters. Like, oh shit, Remilia is dead. Who gives a fuck? Selfish bint had it coming. Reimu send to hell? Nobody cares. Literally the most emotionally resonant part of all of FS for most readers was some random villager nobody getting axed off. It's why most Touhou doujins that try to be more dramatic make the characters nicer. Suddenly, you can actually give a shit.

>The point is, in a series with constant conflict and battles (even if they're "pretend" battles), if most characters were good, they would be working together constantly.
Anon, we literally have a in universe justification for why characters would fight randomly. It's literally just a game to them.

>In Touhou, people work together if their goals align, or if they were slighted by the incident, or if they were goaded into it.
When? Most of the cast picks fights with each other for no reason. Again, it's just a game to them. Do you think the fighting games aren't canon or something?

>And a lot of Touhou characters aren't even that much of an asshole,
Well, yeah, most of them are just straight up irredeemable serial killers.

>>45380577
>Who would honestly be interested in that?
All those hundreds of forest Youkai supposedly hungry for humans.
>Define "So much more". Try and remember that if the human village snapped, everybody would pay the price.
Eat people and escape justice. Try and remember Youkai are thousands of individuals, the sages might care, most others are out for themselves.

If the common rank and file Youkai were that interested in eating humans there would be many more eaten humans.

>>45379663
Not Korean, but otherwise correct.

>>45380237
>They... start off as enemies. Almost all of them, even Marisa.
Do you think all fights have to be to the death? For fuck sake, one of the most famous rivals turned ally in anime history is Vegeta. Who wanted to kill everybody on earth, yet still got a pass.

>then she wouldn't be much of a good person.
You can have Reimu kill evil youkai without also having to kill every good Youkai. In fact, if you make the cast generally nicer and less evil this would go both ways. Reimu not killing would feel more justified.

>The plots of 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, and 18 could be theoretically be resolved by just talking to people.
The plots of every single piece of media on the planet could be hypothetically resolved by the characters talking. Romance of the Three Kingdoms could have ended with Liu Bei and Cao Cao giving each other a hug. 40K could end with everybody joining hands and selling novelty merchandise to each other. Conflict doesn't have to be about people being bad or stupidly unreasonable. It doesn't even have to be a particularly nuanced take on a issue. Most of the plots of Touhou would work if everybody was generally nicer. Again, the series has a in universe reason for why everybody is quick to resort to combat. Nobody plays Street Fighter and wonders why everybody likes to fight each other. At the same time, I would say most of the cast of Street Fighter is likeable.

>The only characters in the Hakurei Shrine would be Kosuzu, Keine, human villager #17 and maybe Kogasa and Hina.
Not really. For starters you forgot Aunn, but nobody would be that confused by Marisa, Sanae, or even Mokou hanging around the barrier even if you leave them unchanged.

>Then you'd have to write some convoluted and probably retarded redemption arc for each of them.
Again, not really. It's not that hard to imagine Remilia hanging out with Reimu even if you don't make her generally more reasonable.

>Reimu's personality and goals are what keeps Touhou,
Correct, and it's bad and it's why Reimu is a bad person.

>It would be far more hilariously worse if all the human characters were good instead of just Reimu.
Nobody is saying that.

>>45380668
>All those hundreds of forest Youkai supposedly hungry for humans.
Marisa literally has more holy shit in her house than the papacy. Oh, and also, Youkai don't even visit the forest of magic that much. Which is probably one of the reasons Marisa lives there.

You also assumes she, you know, just doesn't have a fucking alarm system.

>If the common rank and file Youkai were that interested in eating humans there would be many more eaten humans.
Outsiders are not hard to find far as we can tell. Youkai are selfish assholes, but most of them aren't entirely retarded "Attack outsiders, not villagers" isn't hard to understand.

>>45380642
>Most of them have very similar personalities and motivations.
Incorrect. Even Fairies, who by nature of their race, extremely similar to one another, have different goals in mind. The three faires are the posterchild of generic fairy behavior. Cirno is described as unnatural, and wants to be known as the strongest around. Clownpiece is a hell fairy that's far more unhinged than the regular fairy, but Hecatia wants her to have a more peaceful life in Gensokyo in comparison to hell. Eternity is a mysterious, enigmatic character, who while playful, seems to be far more than just a normal fairy. Especially if Okina is to be believed.
And those are just the fairies.
>Making some of them actually motivated by wanting to do good or even just not being terrible people would fix that.
But some of them already do. Their version of good. That's Byakuren and Keiki in a nutshell. Hell, Keiki is as good of a god as you can get. She's literally protecting and trying to make great lives out of sinners that got sent to hell. Meanwhile, good people in real life can't even forgive the smallest slights dealt to them.
>1: They kind of already are. 2: That is 100% how the fandom threats them.
Hilariously incorrect. This observation might've been correct if you were talking the early days of Touhou when NND reigned, but this couldn't be more wrong now. This is true for both western fans and japanese fans.
>The problem is they don't. In fact, they don't have many motivations at all
Except they do, else incidents would never occur, and the games wouldn't exist at all. You want me to list them? Tell me if you want to list them, because I can go for a long time about it.
>and what you will mostly find in the Touhou fandom as well, is porn and slice of life.
I can tell you don't know much about what Touhou doujinshi non-h writers write about. There's also very little porn of Touhou in comparison to other doujin works.
See >>45379209
>To make matters worse, actual drama doesn't work because nobody really cares if bad things happen to cannon characters.
Ah, you're that cannon person people keep talking about. And I'm pretty sure people care. If they didn't care about the characters, then there wouldn't be separate Touhou conventions for each Touhou character done weekly in Japan.
>Literally the most emotionally resonant part of all of FS
That's wasn't "emotionally resonant". It was a surprising event, because it's the first time we've ever seen Reimu execute a youkai before.
>Anon, we literally have a in universe justification for why characters would fight randomly.
But they don't fight randomly? They fight for a reason. The spellcard rules aren't set in place for "random fights". It's set in place because a real fight between two powerhouses would destroy Gensokyo. The spellcard rules just make it easier for people to fight as a downtime, but most fights shown in Touhou have a reason behind them.
>When? Most of the cast picks fights with each other for no reason. Again, it's just a game to them. It's literally just a game to them.
lmao
So instead of having any semblance of a plot whatsoever, you just want characters to show up and fight randomly? Then they'd all have a good time at Reimu's veranda and eat some BBQ afterwards.
How moronic.
>Well, yeah, most of them are just straight up irredeemable serial killers.
Sure thing, buddy. You sound like you would make a great vegan.

>>45367785
If Mizuchi truly is a past hakurei turned vengeful spirit that has teamed up with Mima then I theorize the following:
>she remembered Mima having a history so long and old with the Hakureis that Mima herself forgot why she wants to fuck with them
>Mizuchi uses this reasoning to persuade Mima to help because fuck the Hakureis amirite
>Mima, not to let this young upstart think she's hot shit, goes along with it for now until Mizuchi is not useful anymore
>every bone in every anon that visits /jp/ collectively reincarnate when Mima is revealed to be the true mastermind
>le ebin fight
>then it turns out that Mima was just bored and didn't really intend for things to get so serious
>she was, however, having a fun fucking time watching Reimu piss herself this entire manga

Fuck me, that was a lot of text.

Look, I'll try to be a bit more short and precise: Your ideas are utterly lacking in creativity and frankly just plain stupid. 90% of the things that make Touhou characters too unlikeable could be fixed with a single line of dialogue. It's a deliberate choice that serves mostly to kneecap any potential for actual drama. I'm not asking for Reimu to become a generic goody two shoes hero. How about just not having her imprison about ten thousand people? How about not having her explicitly work for a mass murderer, or at least make the relationship far more unwilling?

Hell, most of this could be fixed by just giving the characters backstory.

>>45380797
>Clownpiece is a hell fairy that's far more unhinged than the regular fairy, but Hecatia wants her to have a more peaceful life in Gensokyo in comparison to hell.
That means she's a generic fairy with no motivation. Hecatia is the one with the motivation.

>Eternity is a mysterious, enigmatic character, who while playful, seems to be far more than just a normal fairy.
Again, not a fucking motivation. Being mysterious is not motivation.

>Their version of good.
You mentioned two examples that are arguably somewhat motivated by doing good. And, frankly, I would say you are being way too kind towards Byakuren.

>Hilariously incorrect.
Come on. Cirno is still baka (9). Flandre literally became her fanon personality. Meiling is still lazy. Yukari is still a old hag.

> else incidents would never occur, and the games wouldn't exist at all.
Most of the cast don't cause incidents.

>f they didn't care about the characters, then there wouldn't be separate Touhou conventions for each Touhou character done weekly in Japan.
Nobody gives a fuck about their canon personalities. They always make them nicer.

>It was a surprising event
It provoked a reaction. That is more than you can say for anything that ever happened to canon characters.


You have literally like ten characters who are all motivated by "Taking care of master". And dozens of others who have no motivation whatsoever.

>But they don't fight randomly?
Mate, have you played the fighting games? Have you played Phantamagoria? Fuck, have you played the actual bullet hell games?

>So instead of having any semblance of a plot whatsoever, you just want characters to show up and fight randomly?
They already do until at least stage 3. Sometimes even beyond.

>>45380880
>You have literally like ten characters who are all motivated by "Taking care of master". And dozens of others who have no motivation whatsoever.
I meant for this to go elsewhere.

Mucho texto

>>45380920
Just read this: >>45380819

You can ignore the rest. It mostly follows the same theme.

>>45380744
>Do you think all fights have to be to the death? For fuck sake, one of the most famous rivals turned ally in anime history is Vegeta. Who wanted to kill everybody on earth, yet still got a pass.
I can't believe you mentioned a fucking DBZ character for a comparison. That's actually hilarious.
And no, I don't mean to the death, you dingus. I mean that all of them are ENEMIES. How many times can you write "redeemed villain character" without it looking like you're bullshitting? Because that's the only to write them as villains for a good character first, then have them be friends later like what Touhou now does.
Here, let me Shounen it up for you since you like em. Y'know Naruto, the series known for the term Talk-no-Jutsu? You know how many people were pissed off about Sasuke? Or Orochimaru? Ooh, how about a recent example, Eren?
That's actually funny how you said that.
>You can have Reimu kill evil youkai without also having to kill every good Youkai.
What's a good youkai? Even the tame ones live out of human fear and conflict. There's very little good natured youkai for a reason, they're an aberration.
Even Reimu killed every bad youkai, it wouldn't be Gensokyo at all. It'd just be generic 95% generic human village with generic humans and 5% random wacky youkai.
AKA, you might as well not be dealing with Touhou.
>The plots of every single piece of media on the planet could be hypothetically resolved by the characters talking.
Thanks for proving my point, dumbass. The idea is that them just talking it out wouldn't work because it'd be anticlimactic and wouldn't even feel likeTouhou, especially when a lot of the characters are man-eating monsters by nature.
>Again, the series has a in universe reason for why everybody is quick to resort to combat.
You keep saying that. Okay, let's take Touhou 8. But now, Reimu is a good person.
Why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight Wriggle? Uhh, spellcard rules and lolrandom?
Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight Mystia? Uhh, spellcard rules and lolrandom?
Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight Keine? Uhh, spellcard rules and lolrandom?
Okay, Touhou 10.
Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight the Aki sisters? Uhh, spellcard rules and lolrandom?
Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight Hina? Uhh, spellcard rules and lolrandom?
You see where this is going? A good person wouldn't pick a fight with random people even with the spellcard rules in play.
Now, how about in actual Touhou?
Why does Reimu fight lower level stage schmucks? Because they were in the way of Reimu while she was investigating. That's from a character trait. That's not from some in-universe plot rules.
The majority of Touhou games are her investigating about an incident that's currently occurring, some of them straight up nasty and would destroy Gensokyo, like 11 or 15. If all of them were "a bit nicer", then they wouldn't fight at all, because it's not logical.

You don't like Touhou. You just want some other series that's remotely not like Touhou at all.

>>45381025
I'm going to keep this short before this descends into another endless wall of text. Though I am going to clarify some of the specific examples

Youkai are mostly bad, but not all of them need fear and conflict to survive. Aunn exists. Kyouko exists. Wakasagihime exists. Even when it comes to the bad ones, there is a major difference between "Asshole prankster" and "Psychopathic serial killer". The former doesn't need a redemption arc. In general, most Youkai don't need one. Nor do the humans, not really. If Touhou took itself more seriously basically just Sakuya, Marisa, and MABYE Youmu.

>Wriggle?
Reimu is disturbed by bugs and crushes one by accident. Wriggle is angry and because of that challenges her to a fight.

>Mystia?
She's trying to catch human villagers. Reimu tries to stop her. She eithers kill her after the fight, because she is a would be serial killer, or tells her to stop since she's largely ineffectual and in reality people in the human village were just complaining about her singing.

Or hell, have her run her usual scam only for Reimu to realize what game she is playing and attack. I know that was established after the game came out, but it could still work.

>Keine
Assuming we drop the "Reimu works with a youkai angle", since working with Yukari would make her pretty irredeemable and there isn't really a good other candidate (Suika?), either have major distrust between the human villagers and the Hakurei Shrine Maiden that results in a fight or have Keine get tricked into fighting Reimu as part of Eirin's plan.

>Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight the Aki sisters?
If we keep the Aki sisters as good people, then simply have Reimu misunderstand and assume they are the new gods causing trouble.

>Okay, why would Reimu, good person, agree to fight Hina?
She misunderstands how her misfortune power works.

>Because they were in the way of Reimu while she was investigating.
Yeah? You can keep that idea and not make her a total asshole that is personally complicit in mass murder. Sherlock Holmes often had to fight off people getting in his way during his investigation and nobody is claiming that he's a mass murderer.

>>45380880
>That means she's a generic fairy with no motivation.
I like how you ignored the rest of it. And no, that gives her actual character. Have you even read VFiS? She's far more unhinged in comparison to the three fairies. Her introduction is her fucking with humans in the village, and the three fairies were afraid to even just enter the village.
>Again, not a fucking motivation.
Congrats you can understand words, but sadly you can't understand meaning. Being enigmatic and mysterious explicitly you don't know what the characters' deal is... but you know they're there.
Kasen at the start of the WaHH was a mysterious and enigmatic character. We know her story now, but even at the start we knew that there's a reason why she's doing it all of it. Mizuchi is the same deal, except we don't know her reasoning yet.
>You mentioned two examples that are arguably somewhat motivated by doing good.
Congrats, you now realize there's good characters in Touhou.
>Come on. Cirno is still baka (9). Flandre literally became her fanon personality. Meiling is still lazy. Yukari is still a old hag.
All of those you mentioned besides the "old hag" came from their canon personalities You're literally proving my point.
Also, ZUN doesn't give a shit about fanon. He's notorious for it.
>Most of the cast don't cause incidents.
And so why would most of the cast exist beyond being something for Reimu to beat up?
You wanna rewrite the entirety of Touhou? Then that's not Touhou.
>Nobody gives a fuck about their canon personalities.
There was literally an outcry with the Japanese fans because a mall in Japan used Reimu's voice for something, and it "sounded too nice". It was memed that "it's a girl that likes to pretend she's Reimu".
No, they care. You just don't think they don't because you think you understand the characters more.
>It provoked a reaction. That is more than you can say for anything that ever happened to canon characters.
Not exactly surprising because nothing "ever happened" with the named characters beyond Kosuzu, and Kosuzu's turn was talked about as well. It's just that Fortune Teller's bifurcating had more implications to Reimu as a character.
>You have literally like ten characters who are all motivated by "Taking care of master"
There's two, arguably three if you count Reisen, but Reisen's has had a lot more to her since LoLK.
You can count Mai, Satono, Yoshika, but they're brainless servants.
>Mate, have you played...
Have you? Write up this scenario:
Write Touhou 8's plot, but remove Reimu's personality trait of "beating everyone to a pulp in her way, no matter who". The characters from 8 need to all be in it.