/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>44631884
Cowards need magic. Gods just need America.

>>44633784
Gods *Need* America?
But all America needs is JMB (Pbuh) and his holy 1911!

>>44631884
I wrote recently a little story of how Gensokyo was discovered by the Outside World and
how a war begun, can we talk about how it will be in reality? I always wanted to know how
a war between Gensokyo and the Outside World/Lunar Capital would be like.

Should I post the story?

>>44633990
yes

>>44634001
- Future War ~ Outside World vs Gensokyo -

- In the year 2049, 29 of July ( Officially ) a group of NASA scientist discovered through a recently-launched satellite "Agnes OVG-335" a whole
realm filled with strange-looking people, in majority women. In the next months this place was discovered as the once fictitious and legendary realm
know as "Gensokyo" and it's legends. In the year 2049,14 of November after a great silence, the government of Japan announced to the world the
confirmation and recognizance of the existence of "Gensokyo" and it's possible threat to mankind. In the year 2050 in a non-revealed amount of days,
the world most powerful governments discovered the destruction capacity of the "Gensokyo" inhabitants. "Gensokyo" was declared a threat to mankind
in the year 2050, 14 of December and possible courses of action where in the table. Finally, in the year 2051, 28 of January the government of Japan with support of the most powerful world governments: United States and NATO deployed military units outside of the realm "Gensokyo", And surrounded the
entire perimeter with weapons, tanks and heavy artillery. When the military troops entered "Gensokyo" the war just begun.

I wrote this after watching a video about Half-Life: The Afterwards of the Black Mesa incident, and I wanted to make it scientific-looking as possible. I'm
ESL by the way so I'm really sorry for all the inconsistencies, I'm not good in politics/military stuff.

>>44633990
If a war were to happen, it would be over very quickly due to the fact that all that needs to be done is kill off the human village. It would, by all accounts, just end up being the 7-Hour War but with humanity taking the Combine's role.

>>44634128
>7-Hour War but with humanity taking the Combine's role.
I would pay for see a whole movie about this

Does a more up to date version of this exist?

>>44637743
where the FUCK is DiPP?

>>44637743
nevermind, the timeline on the wiki shows the order just fine

>>44633784
Weaklings need technology
Superior lifeforms use magic

>>44639588
A handgun chambered in 3 different types of ammunition may as well be magic.

>>44634128
this retarded take again...
in order to attack gensokyo, you need to believe in its existence
who the fuck needs the human village anymore then

>>44639949
Believing in Gensokyo doesn't mean anything, it's just a region. Believing in the non-humans that live there would make them substantially more powerful, but only inasfar as the inside of the GHB goes, since post-GHB Gensokyo power levels is just youkai cope. Reading any amount of mythology would show you that the vast majority of them would be massacred in a fight with any modern military, so if the GHB goes down, they lose, and if there are no humans on the inside, chances are the GHB is going down.

Ironically, the Barrier being destroyed with the Outside World empirically aware of the existence of non-humans would probably be better for everyone involved as you end up with humans and non-humans on roughly equal footing, and undeniable proof of their existence, thus ensuring they don't have to worry about dying from being forgotten.

>>44640090
>undeniable proof of their existence, thus ensuring they don't have to worry about dying from being forgotten
Maybe yes for youkai that "developed" enough to be considered fantastical race like the tengu or oni, but for youkai born from simple abstract concept like Rumia and Kyouko, they'll gonna die instantly

>>44640090
>thus ensuring they don't have to worry about dying from being forgotten.
Except if GHB goes down and modern society get exposed to Gensokyo and its inhabitans they will perceive them with logic and scientific belief instead of spiritual one which will harm them, because their core existence is being denied, until they perish. They won't see them as youkai and gods they need to fear/pray to which is what sustain their existence, and it is the very reason that their existence was threatened which lead to the creation of Gensokyo; to preserve the spirituality that constitute youkai, gods and other fantasy creatures which mostly come from humans.

>>44640192
>>44640200
>to preserve the spirituality that constitute youkai, gods and other fantasy creatures which mostly come from humans.
The primary inciting event is actually the Youkai Expansion Project, which was created not as a matter of spirituality, but simply because youkai were frightened by humanity's increasing numbers. Furthermore, there is no evidence that perceiving them with a more scientific angle will harm them. Simple observation and acknowledgement is the most important aspect, although if they are neither feared nor worshipped they will likely not remain the same as youkai or kami, as it's stated that a kami that is feared can degenerate into a youkai, so the nature of the acknowledgement will likely affect them.

Touhou in general has multiple references to Quantum Mechanics, especially in the Hifuu Albums, and in the latter there are details that heavily imply that it's very much a matter of Observation of their existence that is the most important point. Byakuren theorized that youkai took the forms they have in Gensokyo because they're free from the limits of human imagination, but there's a very strong argument to be made that the reason for taking a tangible human form is to be both easily observable, and memorable due to being someone you could interact with.

If Yokai are affected by belief, that would mean outside world humans would win by default because they believe they would win.

>>44640246
>The primary inciting event is actually the Youkai Expansion Project
That project is earlier and different (yet still related):from the Great Barrier project anon
>Furthermore, there is no evidence that perceiving them with a more scientific angle will harm them
Yes it does, what are you talking about?
>Simple observation and acknowledgement is the most important aspect
>there's a very strong argument to be made that the reason for taking a tangible human form is to be both easily observable, and memorable due to being someone you could interact with
I mean sure it's more memorable for a youkai to adopt humanoid form, but their entire existence still hinges on the idea they represent rent free on human villager's mind

And we still talking inside Gensokyo where everyone's belief of monster and beasts concentrated there, open the barrier and 7 billion people's worth of DISbelief will overwhelm the youkai and purge their existence unless they're lucky that they're still popular in the Outside World like with Mamizou's case as Tanuki

>>44643640
>That project is earlier and different
I never said it was the same, I said it was the inciting incident. It was not the lack of spirituality that led to Gensokyo becoming what it is at present in canon.
>Yes it does
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>7 billion people's worth of DISbelief
Please read earlier in the thread to what was being replied to, specifically the premise of a "war" between Gensokyo and the Outside World with Gensokyo being publicly acknowledged. There would be more than enough belief to sustain them from that point. They might no longer exist as kami or youkai, but that's not really a bad thing by itself.

what a fucking jobber

>>44644450
>They might no longer exist as kami or youkai, but that's not really a bad thing by itself.
Maybe some lesser youkai wouldn't mind but I doubt greater gods and youkai would give up their current power to be degraded by modern humans' perception, and who knows what exactly they will turn into.

>>44639588
Nah, Good Boys do what Buzz Adrin did and have holy communion in enemy territory to disrupt Magitek and alien witchcraft, Being Enforcers of the universal Laws of physics.
E=MC2 and Ek=½mv2 are Divine Edicts

I'm sorry if you guys don't like memes here, I just found this while searching. But, I have to ask:

Is this True? How is it really?

>>44658139
Yukari and Eirin both beat their subordinates.
But only Reisen shows up in other games and spin-off material outside of IN, so people remember how abusive her master since we are constantly reminded of it.

>>44658139
People hate Lunarians. Simple as.

>>44648758
>Power-hungry tyrants prefer to continue to have disproportionate power over others.
And that's exactly why I said it wouldn't be a bad thing, Anon.

>>44658305
And I'm just saying they won't let that happen because it would be bad for them.
They won't bring down the GHB even if doing so might not equate complete annihilation.

>>44658375
The initial premise that the discussion you were replying to was building off of was the notion of a war between Gensokyo and the Outside World. The GHB wouldn't be able to last in that sort of scenario, as it really wouldn't be that hard to remotely destroy the human village with modern military resources.

>>44658424
you dont even need to do that, just assault the Outside world part of the hakurei shrine and see what happen when the gensokyo side of the shrine loses his other half, by its Dualistic system.

>>44631884
Moonies power rely on human fear. Too bad American doesn't afraid of anything.

>>44658462
That's youkai, Lunarians rely on quantum fuckery. Too bad regular human observation collapses quantum waveforms.

>>44640200
China proves this isn't necessarily the case. Sufficiently complicated logic gates are indistinguishable from magic to the average farmer who still believes that eating narwal tusks will heighten the chance his one child is a son.
Rationalists make up a loud minority of the world's population, and the last few times they were entrusted a country of their own it made Gensokyo look like a paradise.

>>44633990
Yukari solo Earth by either wrapping into Washington and launching nukes at the rest of the world or just constantly assassinating every government in the world to ensure anarchy
>>44658139
But didn't she create a whole fake Moon just to save Reisen from the draft?

>>44663633
Yukari jobs to a random evil spirit. She's nowhere near as strong as she seems,

>>44665419
but she can teleport and kill humans and that would be enough

>>44631884
They take big steps

>>44665750
She could kill one human before she gets gunned down by massed machine gun fire.

>>44666247
>teleport in
>0,5 s to kill president with laser
>teleport out

>>44666272
Out of joking, If Lunarians are so "powerful", then why haven't they done
anything? I'm seriously thinking that they have some kind of "Master plan"
Or they are reserving all of their force for some reason

>>44666272
Half of America would praise her for that and she would still get shot to pieces within that 0,5 seconds.

>>44666326
Earth is toxic for Lunarians, right? And it's possible that they don't really care, just like what would happen on Earth if some tribe of monkeys evolved just enough to form an army with spears and attacked some village, just send in some rabbit fodder to deal with it and worry more about the fact that the strongest goddess in this universe is hostile towards you
>>44666345
how humans can prepare against someone who can appear out of nowhere at any time to instantly kill anyone and then disappear at the exact same moment

>>44666444
>to instantly kill anyone
How?

Do the afterlife realms also require human belief to exist? Hecatia has mentioned that there's a hell for Otherworlds like Gensokyo, a hell for the Moon and a hell for the Earth, does that imply that outside world humans still go to the afterlife regardless of their beliefs?

>>44666522
Probably yes, possibly no.

It's hard to say. It doesn't help that the one afterlife we do see basically runs on "Strongest one is in charge" rather than any kind of creator deity.

>>44666519
laser, magic bullet, flying knife, snap neck, throw train at you i don't know, you choose

>>44666547
>>44666522
Interestingly enough it's said that Clownpiece comes from Earth's hell and she has america-inspired clothes, do that tell us that the residents of Earth's hell have taken a semblance to the culture of Earth's countries? I'm starting to think that the hell of Earth is basically an amalgamation of most religions's idea of hell (and as you said there may possibly not be any creator deity)

>>44666558
All of those take time to use. I mean, they do in the game.

>>44666576
If I remember correctly: Clownpiece dresses like America explicitly as a fuck you to the Lunarians. Meanwhile, Hecatia's fashion sense is pretty easily explained by her real world followers.

>>44666676
>they do in the game
In IN she can just fire at will

>>44666951
In IN her objects can't even get through objects Reimu's bullets can.

>>44666962
but she has higher damage

>>44666987
Can't even kill a fairy in a single second. I'm sure Biden will be fi-

Okay, you have me there. But normal people should be fine.

>>44667700
>I'm sure Biden
Which 2hus would he smell?

>>44667935
Yukari. Who visits all of the US presidents to make sure they continue to get a steady stream of death row inmates.

You should have seen her meeting with Trump.

>>44663633
>Launching nukes across the world
Yeah, because the issues with the barrier weakening when millions of Outside World humans die definitely won't be a problem if billions do.
Even assuming Yukari is capable of doing that, which she and other youkai logically shouldn't given how weak she would be outside of Gensokyo, it would be a terrible idea on all counts, as the death toll from a nuclear apocalypse would completely shatter the barrier, and assassinations would just lead to humanity being even more galvanized against Gensokyo, ensuring the likelihood of any sort of peace being reached drops to near-zero levels. Even Yukari, for as little forethought as she puts into her plans, would see how idiotic of an approach that is.
A situation where Gensokyo is acknowledged and recognized by the Outside World maybe isn't a bad thing for them, but a situation where all those billions of DARPA-bucks are going into memetic weapons research is a fucking game-ender.

>>44668444
How exactly works the Hakurei barrier? I always wanted to know what would happen inside Gensokyo is suddenly humanity/world ends or some shit. I never fully understood how works all that "What happens in the outside world, affects Gensokyo somehow"

>>44669765
I know.
But I'm not telling you.
Not with that grammar, ESL-kun.

>>44669783
Okay, I apologize for my poorly written grammar, how does this new one look?

>>44668444
Oh trust me, lunarians created youkai with the purpose behind them being to be a dumpster to humanity, the thing is that youkai would rather wander around aimlessly or keep up to their own business rather than do what they were initially created to do (culling off humanity), if youkai were hellbent on exterminating humanity and united on that goal, they'd easily do so

>>44669801
Hey, have you ever wondered who specifically created the Youkai? I mean, can you imagine that one day it will be revealed in a manga or even maybe a mainline game, the Lunarian scientists who created them? Because that was technically a Genocide.

>>44669823
Eh I don't know, maybe Tsukuyomi gave the order or something, but it's known that the lunarians played a part in their creation with the intention of them being the predators of humanity, but they never went through what they were created for and rather just occasionally ate humans for fun rather than genocide humanity

>>44669801
I wonder if ZUN regrets having Kaguya say that line, because it completely contradicts how youkai actually function in the current lore. A new youkai was laterally born in Gensokyo because of the rumor about a giant snake that ate a person in India.
Then again, IN was supposed to be the final Touhou game, so him trying explain what a youkai was probably didn't make a difference at the time.

>>44669801
Half of the Greater Youkai are scared shitless of some philistine Tao/shinto shrine maiden in a poket reserve in the middle of fucking nowhere, what makes you thing other Pro human Deities or even the Capital G won't empower their own version of Exterminators? also:
>lunarians
It takes a special kind of retard Incompetency to survey a primitive species in Earth and still let them developed rocketry and space capability

>>44669886
I think Kaguya only said that to boast off her race and to look down on earth youkai, so she was either exaggerating, outright lying or genuinely didn't know better.

>>44670018
Is it possible that it was a mistranslation? None of this Lunarians made youkai shit was brought up in SSiB or CiLR, and those were sequels to IN, and an exploration of Lunarian society and culture.
Just seems like a weird one off comment, like Eirin recognizing Sakuya for no reason.

>>44670075
Boast is more likely. It's very common for characters to BS in Touhou, and SSiB makes that even more clear with Marisa's whole "nothing is faster than light" comment prior to Yorihime reacting to and deflecting her Master Sparks.
>>44669801
Go back to playing Shogi with yourself, Tsukuyomi, nobody actually believes your crappy propaganda.

>>44631884
Jesus

>>44670075
Checked the wiki and Kaguya uses 魔物(Mamono). Which is literally magic + thing and iirc this specific term was only used for Makai but it could translate from devil to monster to a lot of other things.
Considering that she is talking about that when Remi was bragging about her being more power being about the moon, Kaguya talking about Remi's "companions" and that ZUN has used mostly the devil/magic (魔). She could be talking more about devils, maybe even werewolves.
And vamps and werewolves fit as ex-human turned into monsters.

The only thing that points to Youkai being moon made(that I found right now) is the final stage A text.
>To the youkai, this closer moon brought faint, nostalgic memories.
But that could also be a reference to lunarians getting further away from earth, considering that the moon gave magic to people (and Mimas PoDD ending lol) magic might have become weaker with the establishment of the lunar capital.

魔物 could include youkai tho since in FS they use 妖魔 to talk about the magic youkai books.
If someone knows an easy way to search through all touhou content 魔物, I guess we could maybe get a better clue on what's included and whats not but it might be more devils than youkai, not sure where oni fall since they also are ex-human devils (kinda)

But I think that ZUN had some big ideas considering how Eirin talks about a time before humans when talking about Magic teams powers, maybe Makai existed before humans?
Maybe ZUN even had some magic classification system considering what Shinki said about the 3 types of light, 4 seasons and 5 phases/elements that represent nature being behind the 60 year cycle.

just from playing the games and reading some of the manga installments ive gotten curious

how big is gensokyo anyway? we obviously fly over a lot of it so it must be big but it is strange that there is seemingly only one human village? or am i interpreting things wrong here

>>44672057
Do you guys remember the Touhou map thread?

Some people said that Gensokyo is very. VERY tiny and the Lunar Capital is even more tiny.

>>44672057
Will ZUN reveal it some day?

>>44672057
>How big is Gensokyo
It's small enough that anything is in flying distance but large enough that ZUN can keep pulling new locations out of his ass.

>>44669801
I doubt that considering they lost, pretty easily, just to Meijin Era Japan. Yeah, the Lunarians did seemingly create them to keep humanity under control (Something they did fail to do) but that was the humanity of thousands of years ago. I doubt they prepared for machine guns or cruise missiles.

>>44670075
I think the fact it was only mentioned in the ending makes it something ZUN is reluctant to talk about. Same reason why Sakuya X Marisa is way less known as a friendship/romance than Marisa X Patchouli despite the fact the latter genuinly dislike each other.

>>44669801
The entire reason the barrier exists was because youkai were getting overrun by humanity, you edgy child

>>44672057
>>44672086
>>44672113
>>44672262
While technically not canonical, there are a few fan-made maps that try to cover the region, since it's explicitly stated to be the Yatsugatake Mountain region in Nagano. Given what statements we have about its size, it should be a relatively small area that's encapsulated by the Hakurei Barrier, but if you wanted exact numbers, you'd have to find the shrine that was the original basis for the Hakurei Shrine, which I forget the name of and was destroyed in an Earthquake, and some other landmark around the other edge of the barrier with a realspace analogue.

>>44675035
The basis for the Hakurei Shrine that was destroyed is near ZUN's hometown of Hakuba, which is a good 4 or so hours away by train from the general Yatsugatake mountains, and around 120km away from Lake Shirokoma which I've once seen an anon claim it was the inspiration for Misty Lake (though it way, WAY smaller than what described so a little doubtful, I'd like some sources).
If we assume it's geographically accurate, in a place with no transportation, it has to at least feel pretty huge. I think this is as small as it could be with a 53km radius, contains most of the landmarks I could think of. It'd take you around a day on foot to go from the shrine to the lake.

>>44677415
you around a day on foot to go from the shrine to the lake
Assuming a reasonably steady walking pace of ~3km/h, it's probably around 20 hours straight of walking. That's a two day trip, especially given that nighttime travel is an idiot's ticket to Higan.
Bearing in mind that walking up hills/mountains is NOT fun unless it's very short or very mild, so it might be more like three if you take a more realistic route.

>>44677477
>It'd take you around a day on foot to go from the shrine to the lake

Fucked up the first line, sorry.

>>44677415
>It'd take you around a day on foot to go from the shrine to the lake.
My sense of scale must be irreparably fucked then because that doesn't actually strike me as all that large. That said it definitely explains the number of Outsiders that would pass through the barrier and succumb to the elements and/or wildlife. Trying to find shelter without prior metaknowledge would be an absolute nightmare, especially if you start somewhere that isn't around any roads in the Gensokyo side.

>>44677415
>>44677477
>>44677501
Well, the distance between village and Hakurei shrine is around 1 hour during winter

>>44669801
All of humanity? I don't think there were ever enough youkai to take on the whole of Asia, let alone the world beyond that.
But they kind of lost their chance to even subjugate Japan when the Industrial Revolution happened. During the Boshin War, it wasn't just the Edo Republic that got its shit pushed in by the Empire, but also the youkai that would later found the Hakurei Barrier.

>>44677501
What that anon said >>44677477
I just went off google maps time estimate but by a day I did mean 20h of straight walking, no breaks. That's fairly big, not overly so. For a single village (not town) with not many landmarks that's more than enough space. And the radius could be a bit bigger, that's just as small as I think it can be.

>>44677570
If we take the Human village to be Hakuba (ZUN's hometown, would make sense) it is also around 1h away (see next post)

>>44677586

>>44677570
Wasn't the shrine supposed to be fairly distant from the village?
An hour in bad conditions is probably less than five kilometers at most.

>>44677630
Is that ever stated before?
Because it's pretty reasonable to me, after all the shrine is supposed to be the village's guardians against youkai, especially before the barrier exist, so it makes sense for the shrine to be quite near

>>44677630
The problem isn't the distance, it's that it's the only road, and thus perfect for ambushes.

>>44677686
Before the barrier existed, most of the residents of Gensokyo were supposed to be capable of holding their own against the average youkai, and likely even winning. The distance seems to be implied to be one of the things disincentivizing villagers from visiting the Hakurei Shrine in the present day, as well.

>>44634140
Honestly, an Outside World controlled Gensokyo could probably resemble Combine Earth. Think about it: Gensokyo is a treasure trove filled with ancient magic and fantasy forgotten to modern men. You're sitting on power that humanity seemingly lost. If you were some elite in the upper echelons of power, you wouldn't just annihilate a brand new world you just discovered on the doorstep of the Yatsugatake mountain range would you?

Sure, it could be genocided in a generic HFY scenario, where you blow up the evil youkai in a righteous war of human supremacy. You could do that. But would it not be far more insidious if Gensokyo were taken over in a war mostly unknown to contemporary humanity, as the high up forces plunder the place for all its worth at the woe of its inhabitants, forced to suffer at their hands? This concept could honestly make for a good fan project where an Outsider discovers where all the new nearly-magic technologies are coming from leading them to go on a quest to liberate Gensokyo. It would probably need a lot of work though.

>>44677803
It would definitely need a lot of refinement, yeah, but I'm inclined to agree that it's a premise with a lot of potential. That said, I don't know how much the average Gensokyan would consider Outside World-controlled Gensokyo to be "suffering." Even a token attempt to improve quality of life would have the human villagers all in favor of their new overlords, and even if no such attempt was made, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that Gensokyo's old regime was in any way benevolent.

In such a premise, I think it would be particularly interesting to explore the notion that Gensokyo's self-unaware exaggeration of "the good old days," while more spiritually rich for some, is savage for most, as I could definitely see a turning point in the later acts of such a story with that Outsider Protagonist suddenly wondering if any side is worth fighting for at all, when both inside and outside of the Barrier, humanity as a whole is unwilling to fight for their own freedom.

Obviously culminating in the decision to fight the good fight anyways. If not for the handful of decent people in either world, then for the sake of doing the right thing regardless of whether or not the people "deserve" a savior.

>>44672282
>only mentioned in the ending
It's mentioned in the scarlet team before Kaguya's battle, not an ending, but I think he might be really have just grouped werewolves and vampires together.
>>44677415
>>44677596
Nice, the Himekawa could be the river that you cross at the end EoSD of stage 1.
Sadly getting unambiguous information of locations in touhou is really rare, I don't remember any time they gave cardinal directions except with the Hakurei Shrine and co being to the east.
I think maybe they mentioned the lake or the mansion to be north but I might be misremembering.

>>44677803
Hihi'irokane is an effectively limitless energy source, for starters.
>>44677882
One thing Secret Sealing Club addresses is that the Humanity of the Outside World is steadily becoming inhuman in its own way, viewing decommissioning people too old to contribute to society as a civil service.

So we know for a fact that the average youkai is stronger than the average human in physical strength, but is it ever specified how "exactly" strong? Vampires are among the strongest and yet the best they can do is lift a thousand years old tree with one hand, which is impressive but not much, how strong would an average youkai be then?

>>44678169
I made this once, but it's not accurate.
A lot of characters lack any info on their physicality, so a proper tierlist is impossible.

>>44678206
Tenshi isn't stronger than human, celestials basically only get sturdier skin, not strength

>>44678206
Can't Keine turn into a were hakutaku?

>>44678206
>Koishi and Satori in stronger than human
Lmao, I would own both of them with my fists alone

>>44678232
Considering Tenshi has fought off Kishin in the past, and Celestials are essentially upgraded Hermits who also have to do the same sort of thing to survive, there's a decent probability that she would be.

Plus, what kind of idiot wouldn't make use of a durability buff to get absolutely shredded?

>>44678251
One night per month, doesn't count. It does mean that I need to put Kagerou down.
>>44678257
They're monkeys. You'll get your arms broken and nuts ripped.

>>44678309
A man can defeat a monkey in a fight, duh, we're not talking about gorillas here

>>44678278
>what kind of idiot wouldn't make use of a durability buff to get absolutely shredded?
Tenshi.

>>44678309
Another day another retard forgets that monkeys and apes are different animals.

>>44678381
>>44678566
Chimps are still incredibly dangerous animals when provoked. They have the strength to rip off your face and WILL use it.

>>44678309
>One night per month, doesn't count. It does mean that I need to put Kagerou down.
Be sure to use her portrait from the high quality rip thread
>>/jp/thread/15745431#p15775737

>>44677415
That was probably me for the Shirakoma Lake comparison. In lore, it takes roughly an hour on foot to walk around the misty lake at a leisurely pace. In our world, the exact same can be said for Shirakoma. I know because it says so on the signs and I've personally done it. The misty lake and Shirakoma are both at the foot of Mt. Tengu in a rough sense. The SDM is known to be in the shadow portion of Tengu mt, and next to a river runoff that comes from said mountain. This coincides with a portion of Shirakoma that is up on a ridge overseeing the lake known as Mononoke no Mori- forest of Mononoke (early term for "spirits and unseen forces" that later evolved into the term of youkai). If you go to this spot, which I have, it has an otherworldly feeling that you would swear is from another place and time once standing there. It is also roughly an hours walk from there to Mt Reizan, where the Hakurei shrine is supposed to be located. There is a small, dilapidated shrine at the foot of Mt Reizan next to a source of water that pools from the top to dorm a little "pond". This can be said to be where Genji lives in Gensokyo. The physical portion may be based off of the Hakudate shrine where Zun got his inspiration from, but actual location matches for this one. There is also a big divot near the top of Mt Tengu that could be an ideal place for a massive lake that would coincide with the lake Suwa body of water proxy in MoF and the Moriya shrine. As for the human village, technically it would fall into the area of the parking lot that takes you to Shirakoma and then the woods to the far right of said parking lot where a source of water does cross through, accounting for the water that the human village uses. As for geographical differences, we know the goddess of Mt Fuji destroyed her sisters mountain in a fit of jealousy and that's what became the Yatsugatake range, but the goddess of that mountain recreated what it looked like before said destruction in the form of Gensokyo's version of Mt Tengu. While it may not be a 1:1 scale fit, Gensokyo and the youkai/kami respectively, are known to be able to change landscapes and have done so in the past, so this would account for slight differences in terrain. And finally, the very nature of the illusary is such that you can't expect a 1:1 copy, but have to "squint" to see it in a spiritual sense and doesn't necessarily mean this square foot of space will be exactly like that square foot of space on the other side.

>>44678875
Yes your chimp, you do have some nasty strenght i never said otherwise, what i am saying is that monkeys are a different breed of animals who are shit tier. If monkeys where as strong as chimps /gif/ would not be full chinks torturing them to death.

>>44678566
Cladistically, all apes are monkeys.

>>44678875
In the case of Satoris, they are youkai monkeys, so on top of having the agility and strength of monkey, their youkai nature enhance such abilities, but the biggest of all is their third eye to read minds, which doesn't necessarily means they're intelligent (for example koishi is dumber than a fly) but they can know what you're about to do
If a normal human were to fight a satori, without weapons, they would probably lose, but guns might work

>>44679146
Ah google maps was glitching out I suppose it was saying around 1 minute for half and I didn't even think about it. It wouldn't be much of a lake as it would be a puddle. I am... le retard...

>>44679205
i don't care what you say grimfag, i can easily beat down these little girls

>>44679235
>grimfag out of nowhere
So it seems people were right when they say cutesokyofags are the most obsessed, self-absorbed of the bunch here on /jp/

>>44679252
You did just expose yourself and prove him right there, you know that?

>>44679316
>Acknowledging the natural strengths of Satori is the same as being a Grimfag
>Calling out schizophrenia is the same as being a Grimfag
Take your meds, anon.

>>44677586
>>44677596
Little correction, it appears ZUN didn't actually live in Hakuba (he was just born there), but rather a very small village next to it called Yasaka. So small in fact, it had nothing and actually was abandonned in early 2000's and literally does not exist anymore. He described some experiences living in it, so I assume he at least spent some time here.
You can read about that here, (all in JP though)
https://w.atwiki.jp/th_seiti/?cmd=word&word=%28%E5%8D%9A%E9%BA%97+%E9%9C%8A%E5%A4%A2&pageid=251
This entire website is very neat to find Gensokyo landmarks or locations related to characters. Hard to navigate though as a EOP.

>>44679361
He's a buffoon, ignore him

>>44679205
Oh my fucking god nigger for the 3rd time monkeys DO NOT have the strenght that apes have. Its like saying a house cat can kill you because lions are cats too.

The idea that disbelief is weighted the same as belief is retarded. If 7 billion humans figured out how to get to Gensokyo, the yokies would not disintegrate or get more powerful, they would simply continue to exist because belief does not make them more powerful per se but only guaruntees their existence. If no one were to believe in them, they'd disappear, but the human village will not cease to believe (or more accurately, know) that yokies exist just because the rest of humanity shows up. In fact, just seeing a youkai for long enough for the shock to wear off, or to see the consequences of their real actions is enough for you to be forced on a deep psychological level to believe in their existence

>>44679367
Last spam butdon't use google translate and use deepl, he did not live in it, just bad google TL using "I".

>>44679552
Thx for all your posts, they help a bit in picturing a Gensoukyou map. Wish canon showed one since I like maps though.
It also seems like a nice remote place to visit.

>>44677717
>Before the barrier existed, most of the residents of Gensokyo were supposed to be capable of holding their own against the average youkai, and likely even winning.
where was this stated? the only thing i can recall similar to that was some "gensokyo chronicle" or "gensokyo record" but ZUN stated in an email that thing was unreliable due to years of having many different unknown authors (in-universe)

>>44683946
PCB prologue, mostly.

It's unreliable, but we never actually know where the human villagers come from without it.

saving ze lore throg

>>44684023
>Gensokyo was deemed useless to the human world as well, so priests sealed it away with the Great Barrier, which could never be opened again. Of course, both the youkai and the descendants of the brave humans who kept them in check were sealed away in the process as well...
It's weird how this prologue can add to the backstory and answer a bunch of questions, but at the same time, completely contradict the current lore as we know it.

>>44690474
>Gensokyo is sealed away and there's no way ever to get in ever, so don't even think about it because it's just hopeless to try!!!!

Nice try, Yukari, but I'm not falling for it. I'm gonna find a way in, one way or another.

>>44690474
I know. It's annoying.

I honestly don't mind the idea of them going from Youkai exterminators to cattle, if anything it adds to the tragedy and makes them more sympathetic, but it should at least be clearly established.

>>44684023
HRtP manual too

>>44690474
Was priests a mistralation? From what It sounds like in the PCB canon here, was a bunch of human with mystical powers trapped Gensokyo, and then Yukari tampered with the barrier for her own end later.

You are walking in the street when suddenly you see ZUN in front of you, he makes some incomprehensible japanese noises, but with the help of a translator you can understand what he is saying: "you can ask ONE question about Touhou lore and I will answer"
What will be your question?

>>44698287
where the FUCK is mima you nipponese bastard!!

>>44698287
Are all 2hus straight and willing to marry me?

>>44698287
Does Yukari actually murder children?

>>44698287
"I know Gensokyo exists and I've been to the area you claim to be the region where it is located. How, in as much detail as you can provide, including written diagrams if need be, do I, an Outsider, get through the barrier, meet the necessary people inside that can help me, and get to a spot of relative safety to where I can live inside the barrier for the rest of my days without getting eaten due to not falling under the protection of the spell card rules, and if possible, become a Magician without painting a larger target on my back?"
That's the ONE question I would ask, and it's worded as such to allow multiple parts of questions to be answered as one coherent stream of information with provided instructions by the man himself in easy to follow, easy to understand format in the best way that would ensure a high rate of survival.

>>44698550
No response?>>44698287

Oh, I see how it is. If I'm not asking about getting my dick wet or the girls going turbomurder cannibal freak you don't wanna talk. Coward.

>>44701139
He never said he'd answer it, he just asked what your question would be...

>>44698287
Are you psychic?

>>44698287
How is sex seen in Gensokyo? Is forbidden or something?

>>44698287
If i took off your beer, would you die?

>>44701240
That's isn't even a question

>>44701240
Isn't it obvious at this point?

>>44701239
only if there is a woman involved

>>44701538
So, Rinnosuke has to fuck the human villagers?

>>44698287
Hard to tell, would like him to do something like an explanation of how the magic system works exactly, a detailed objective bestiary a timeline... but those sound like to much.
Maybe how wtf Yukari meant at x spot, but fear that if I ask something very specific he might just say he doesn't remember.
What exactly would happen if the barrier broke? or How do youkai feeding on fear and believe work exactly? might be nice questions
But considering my social skills I might go full retard and ask which 2hu would u fug?

>>44702232
Why would you ask him that when the established canonical answer is Aya?

Is there any way to a youkai know if a human is an outsider aside clothes ? What if an outsider wear villager clothes and behave exactly like one?

>>44704245
Behaviour, small items, height
Clothes is the big marker, you'd only get villager clothes if you joined the village, meaning off limits

Why does Mystia, 100% japanese youkai, have a german name?

>>44708175
Why do youkai have surnames - a hereditary, societal affectation - at all?

>>44708214
To not feel meaningless since in the end they are a byproduct of humanity's schizophrenia regarding the dark and unknown

>>44708214
The tengu have their own civilization and can have families. Kappa might be the same. Others might just choose a surname because they want to

>>44708175
There are some tie-ins for the Japanese and German legends from mixing throughout their respective histories. And WW2 had a mingling between them. This is speculation on my part of course, but she may have chosen that name at a later date for all we know. But there is a road leading up to the mountain range where they live in the Outside World called Marchen Road, which is German for "fairy tale".

>>44708214
Some of them do have families, others take the name for self identity purposes, while still others are given the surname by outside forces like the Scarlets.
The long answer is: a vast mix of both personal and impersonal reasons spanning time and cultures.
The short answer is: Because, lol. Why not?

If Christianity was to find its way in Gensokyo somehow, which species would it discriminate the most? Devils are a literal species of youkai for example

>>44708340
Probably beast youkai actually
God giving dominion over the Earth and all that walked, flew or swam on it is sorta important, and I could see something that violated that would be damned for breaking God's law.

>>44708418
>God giving dominion over the Earth
That stuff is already kinda violated since youkai are above humans in hierarchy, in Gensokyo anyways, I don't think "humans are God's best/favorite/special creation" would come to mind when someone see Gensokyo for what it is

>>44668444
>all those billions of DARPA-bucks are going into memetic weapons research
Don't worry it's already a thing and the government agencies still can't meme

>>44708456
Not spiritually, which is what counts. No grimshit human zoo fanon.

>>44708502
Define "spiritually" anon, youkai are stronger than humans physically, are naturally imbued with magical powers, have longer lifespans and in general are above humans in almost all things if we exclude technology maybe, but kappa and tengu are a thing, so you're wrong

>>44708533
Anon, the whole point is that humans are necessary for gods and youkai to even exist in the first place, moonies aside.
If that's not spiritually more important, I don't know what is.

>>44708468
Memetic weapons, anon, not weaponized memes. Anything that can affect the Mental Layer, likely starting with mass production of high-caliber silver bullets to absolutely slaughter low to mid level youkai, and that's before research and experiments are done on what the most widely effective ones are. With the collective force of humanity united against such a small region that can't even bring their strongest powers to bear outside of the barrier, there really aren't many, if any, good options for Gensokyo to win such a conflict.

Again though, I doubt the discovery of Gensokyo would go that way, especially given how similar most world leaders are in mentality to the worst of Gensokyo's powers that be.

>>44708502
>human zoo fanon
>fanon
kek cutesokyo tards still coping

>>44708574
Yes they need it to exist, but that doesn't mean that humans are stronger than youkai or gods regardless of their food source, what I said previously still stands
As for lunarians, I think they're the only ones who are as independant as humanity is, which is why they're either our true real enemies or friends

>>44708502
>No grimshit human zoo fanon.
Damn, that ZUN guy really went all out on pushing his fanon, huh.

>>44708502
uh oh you triggered them

>>44708635
Lmao I love just how fucking retarded gensokyo residents are when they try discussing deep topics and instead just avoid it or start rambling random shit

>>44708645
NTA but it's called successful bait. Call the darker aspects of canon "grimshit fanon" and the people that actually want to discuss interpretations of canon will naturally call you a retard if you aren't obviously only pretending to be one.

>>44708607
It is fanon anon, because you made up half the lore to further your edgeboner. Now pipe down.

>>44708612
You are conflating strength with importance here. From a perspective of a medieval peasant, who believed in both Jesus and giants, it would be clear that while a nordic giant from folklore is "stronger", they lack that divine favor that humans get.
Replace giants with youkai, boom, reality and faith reconciled. You can now be self-important in the face of reality.

>>44708662
Can it really be called bait if it gives us an excuse to repost canon information? I call that a win.

>>44708669
Which part of Symposium of Post-Mysticism is fanon, again?

>>44708669
So I guess the entirety of Gensokyo is a result of youkai being on suicide watch and coping intensely hard about humanity's superiority to the point they delude themselves in their little bubble that they are superior and the villagers must treat them as such?

>>44708720
do you really listen to that retard? read this canon doujin and you'll understand better
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/last_supper

>>44708720
That much is essentially true. It wasn't even humanity's spiritual superiority alone but simply the increase in human population that led to the initial changes to the region being implemented to buff youkai. Ironically their desperation to continue being dickheads in most cases is their tragic flaw, as if they were just decent people generally most of humanity would want to continue remembering and acknowledging them.

>>44708669
>because you made up half the lore to further your edgeboner.
Anon is ZUN? Why didn't he tell me earlier?

>>44708752
So I guess youkai are incapable of letting go of their pride, is this a fundamental trait they all share? To have a desire to simply feel "above those humans"?

>>44708788
Have you ever met a real human being with disproportionate influence or power, anon? Or, hell, not even that, just look at bureaucrats. Youkai are human in mind, ultimately. Just like humans, if given enough power to ignore most consequences, the vast majority of them will use and abuse it with practically no regard for anyone they don't have a personal attachment to. Most other nonhumans appear to generally be the same, although being attached to their "nature" means some, such as kami like Kanako, tend to be generally more benevolent, even if it's ultimately for selfish purposes.

>>44708747
>canon doujin
lmao

>>44631884
How do spellcard duels work? Are they turn based with 1 girl shooting her spellcard while the other dodges or both shooting at themselves at once?
And what are the win conditions? Getting hit? Getting your ass beat until you cant handle it and admits defeat?

>>44717681
Closest we got to an explanation was the duel against Yorihime in SSiB, but there don't appear to be any hard and fast rules established.

>>44717681
What we see in games:
You can theoretically beat any boss without firing, so there may be a defender/attacker bias.
In Phantasmagoria games characters don't shoot each other until announcing spellcards, kind of makes sense.
Melee is not allowed, yet you get hit upon collision with a boss, and fightans exist.
One duelist has full range of movement, while the other is usually static and has a healthbar. You could say that the healthbar is an abstraction of dodging, or that one duelist gets a barrier of sorts when performing a spell, that would make them more similar to bombs.
Bombs clear the screen and make one invincible, in Phantasmagorias spellcards fulfill the same function, except they can be interrupted by opposing duelist's spellcard. In fightans, spells can be performed simultaneously.
Lives and healthbars in Phantasmagorias/fightans seem to indicate that the fight is until the opposing party can't continue or surrender.

I think it goes like this: duelists agree to rewards and terms of engagement (amount of spellcards, time limit, melee, cancelable/simultaneous spells, winning conditions) and start fighting. They both fight at the same time.
If spellcards are cancelable, only one duelist uses hers. The spell can be broken if the casting duelist is significantly hit, or if the opposing duelist declares her own. If a duelist breaks a spell without declaring her own and before the time limit, that card is "captured". This doesn't mean anything, it's just for bragging rights.
The duel lasts until one side runs out of spellcards (optional), time runs out (victor is determined by previous agreement to terms), or until one of the duelists surrenders or is exhausted/unconcious.

>>44717681
I'm not sure this actually exists, but there is supposedly a interview where ZUN says that what he had in mind for danmaku is best represented in PoFV.

What are the implications of this line?
Can i interpret it in a way that Remilia never killed any human by drinking his blood?

>>44720049
Yes, it's explicit that humans who end up in the SDM just end up lightly drained but otherwise fine.

>>44708635
It's not like they are locked up in the village, any human could be learning magic or training to become a hermit, they probably just lack the ambition and knowledge to do so.

>>44720077
Unshou managed to hermit-like enough it really impressed Kasen just by fishing in the wilderness, and he's an old man. If it was so hard for a human to survive outside the village, I doubt that he'd be an old man.

>>44720086
Doesn't he live in the village? Also, we know the villagers leave to do things like fish and tend to their crops, they just do it in the day when most youkai and predators are dormant.
Being out there at night is just stupidly suicidal without protection.

>>44720183
What protection does Rinnosuke have? He lives alone in the middle of nowhere, is basically powerless compared to any other named character, and is regularly bothered by youkai.

>>44720266
Because of his unique nature being inbetween the two species, he has a natural defense against both. For humans, why go after a human? For Youkai, they recognize enough of his blood/scent/essence/being/asspull reason to not be tempted to attack except to pester the hell out of him.
But then again, that's Marisa's job so why interfere?

>>44720266
>He lives alone in the middle of nowhere
With a dog named courage?

>>44720323
>Youkai, they recognize enough of his blood/scent/essence/being/asspull reason to not be tempted to attack
We are talking about Touhou here?

>>44720340
No, it's named Laika.

>>44720345
>talking about Touhou.
Yes? I don't follow.

>>44631884
I stopped playing 2hu after LoLK
I tried playing gote's game but goddamn its jankshit

so, why is there a lake of blood and where it came from?

>>44720323
True PMiSS mentions it and Rinosuke says that he placed the shop between the village and the forest of magic to get both youkai and human customers in CoLA ch3.
I guess there must be something for youkai to distinguish humans, especially considering that most of them look human, maybe they just can magically sense it or something, would be awkward if a youkai attacked someone just to find out that their both youkai.
Mamizou recognized the snake youkai in FS but he didn't know that she was a youkai at first, but maybe Mamizous disguise level also hides the youkai "aura" or whatever it is.
>>44720345
>We are talking about Touhou here?
Thinking about a different setting with half youkais?

>>44721005
the lake of blood in hell? wasnt that supposed to be a representation of oil or something and how oil is technically formed from the remains of countless living things. something something accumulated resentment makes it powerful and evil something dumb outsiders dont realize its true nature

>>44720077
Becoming a hermit basically means putting an target on your back while we have no clue how hard it is to become a magician outside of some mentions in PMISS that are probably no longer canon.

>>44720069
>Yukari abducts suicidial and easily missed people.
>But, you know, they are fine.
Where do you go afterwards? A farm?

>>44708788
I would simply say it's not just pride. Youkai as a whole are basically manchildren. Even the "Smart" ones like Yukari frequently act like teenagers. They are largely incapable of personal growth and maturity. Though, obviously, exceptions do exist.

>>44725487
*Where do they go afterwards

>>44725487
You have a few options, I assume. Die to a youkai attack, go live in the village, or go see Reimu and get sent back home.

So why do youkai need to eat humans anyways? Is it because of the belief that they always do, and they are slaves to human imagination? Is it because was always hardcoded into their souls and they are just following their program?
I don't think they do because it is actually tasty, because I remember the one time a 2hu talked about it, Nitori says that human blood was disgusting, and would be happy for an alternative.

>>44726400
Most youkai in myth are either omnivores or carnivores, and the reason they eat people is because they're hungry and don't care where the food comes from, or that they hate humans.
In Touhou, whether a youkai needs human produce is probably determined by this being a defining trait (vampires), or by being a popular depiction (kappa).

>>44726400
>>44726470
Funnily enough it seems that the kappa use ass balls to substitute salt

>>44726550
For supposedly one of the smartest youkai, Kappa are kind of stupid.
I don't remember well, but where did they get the salt to make a proper habitat for the that animal? Being landlocked without access to the ocean, Gensokyo shouldn't have any access to salt, but then there was that salt merchant who got it from somewhere.

>>44726626
I headcanon it as a salt mine somewhere. That's the traditional way for inland areas to get salt, and Gensokyo has a lot of underground. Then again, it's highly possible some youkai has a salt trading operation they're pretending comes from a mine but actually comes from the Outside World where the merchant was acting as a probably unwitting middleman.

>>44725528
That's, like, almost the entirety of Gensokyo, it's just a case of the characters being retarded for some reason

>>44725971
Still seems unlikely Remilia would let them go.

>>44726626
My headcanon is he gets it from Yukari or the like. A merchant pretty much has to trade with Youkai, at least in Gensokyo.

>>44726640
>Unwitting
He probably knew.

>>44726950
Well, yeah. But most of the human characters are described as very youkai like Humans. In other words: Manchildren.

The closest we have to mature people are Keine, Miko, and random human villagers.

>>44725528
"in the country of the Blind, the one eyed man is King"
Imagine how much a lot of the Greater youkai in gensokyo could use a Father Figure / Stern Approach / big brother hugs
half youkai and non zealous exterminators could fix the setting.

>>44729408
I'd argue that a lack of zealous exterminators is part of what led to the issues in the first place, but for the most part, I do agree that hybrids would be a solid answer to a large number of problems in Gensokyo.

>>44729408
I want to say that's the Dragon God, but his opinion of Youkai, Humans, and Gensokyo as a whole 99% of the time is "Not my fucking issue, lol".

Reimu could 100% use a father figure though.

>>44667935
reisen and akyuu

How would you rank the different realms in terms of power?
Here's my personal opinion:

1. The Hells
2. The Lunar Capital
3. Makai(?)
4. Former Hell
5. Gensokyo
6. Senkai

Now about the different powers that be in Gensokyo, I'd rank it like this:

1. Youkai Mountain since they are obviously the biggest faction, with access to some tech and a lot of youkai cooperation
2. Scarlet Devil Mansion, the residents are powerful enough to make a change in Gensokyo (see vampire incident)
3. Myouren Temple, they gathered a considerable amount of peace-oriented youkai
4. Human Village, they have their own youkai exterminators

>>44729408
This would lead to a civil war and eventually a battle royale over who gets to keep you.

>>44737181
Numbee 1 would be the Hakurai shrine, since the whole reason the rules of spellcard exists is that Reimu was simply too strong to fight head on and it was getting boring, and her friends are no joke either.

>>44737181
>Human Village, they have their own youkai exterminators
Not anymore, see FS and Lotus Eaters

>>44738283
>the reason why spellcard rules exist is: headcanon

>>44634079
Pretty cool, feels like one of the album stories. Will you write a sequel?

>>44738631
Who are you quoting?

>>44738689
>the whole reason the rules of spellcard exists is that Reimu was simply too strong to fight head on and it was getting boring, and her friends are no joke either.
You're the one who should be telling where you got that quote from, retard

>>44738710
Good job, you got the quote function right the second try.

>>44738631
>Without a way for any youkai to defeat the Hakurei shrine maiden, many youkai felt that their meaning to exist had disappeared, but by taking some ground-breaking measures she solved this problem.
>That is, the introduction of the spell card rules.
>The spell card rules are dueling rules that allow both parties to show off their skills in a beautiful competition.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Reimu_Hakurei

>>44738918
>Akyuu's headcanon

>>44738964
Who are you quoting?

Anyone have the ssib panel where they met at Remi's blast off party but the dialogues are edited?

>>44721005
Touhou hell is loosely based on the Chinese Diyu, of which one of its realms features pools of blood which sinners are drowned in.

>>44668444
Everyone know this anon, and the entire point of the sages is to prevent an incident like this with the barrier and their powers. They clearly did a good job if Gensokyo is just as hidden in the Science era the Hifuu club lives on. Don’t think about it so hard.

>>44739646
>They clearly did a good job if Gensokyo is just as hidden in the Science era the Hifuu club lives on
Well, more or less, remember that the outside world of Maribel and Renko seems to be a world where Davos Man and the WEF more or less got away with it, Everyone is a Scared little pussy of diseases, Moon traveling is Stupidly expensive and "children dont smile" could it mean they still didnt fix the Aging population or the Educative system is tightly controled heavily into indoctrination (like modern Universities)
The whole shtick of the Hiffu Club is running away from all that dreary materialism and reconect with the Occult and the mystery.

>>44739779
I wonder how it's going to end. If Maribel is Yukari she is 100% going to go full Darth Vader.

>>44741949
ZUN has given up on the Hifuu stories.

>>44742178
And thank god he did. The Hifuu albums were the most preachy of his works and made it abundantly clear that his isolationism has made him completely detached from reality. He really should stick to the games, and in all honesty just leave the writing of the print works to other, actually competent storytellers.

>>44742666
He cringes when he thinks of them

>>44742666
>made it abundantly clear that his isolationism has made him completely detached from reality
Don't get what you mean here, Satan.

Lore seems to go back and forth on whether or not villagers know that those weird dressed fellows are youkai.
Like, no one is disguised in any capacity at Hakurei shrine festivals, so they probably recognise Mystia, who often scams them and has wings in full view, or the kappa, from whom they often buy shit from, or at least the fairies, who are very obvious, right? But then they have trouble recognising Orin as a youkai, despite being well known and right in front of them, cat ears and catafalque and all. So what's going on? I get that sometimes they might ignore them to not get in trouble, but that little scene with Orin just muddles things too much.

>>44670176
>Boast is more likely. It's very common for characters to BS in Touhou, and SSiB makes that even more clear with Marisa's whole "nothing is faster than light" comment prior to Yorihime reacting to and deflecting her Master Sparks.
I dont know if this is just outright lying by omission or just misremembering the story. Look at the image i posted. Yorihime makes it pretty clear that light speed doesnt mean much to her and that she's faster, which she literally just proved a second ago. You conveniently left out Yorihime's own statement. She validated what Marisa said right after shitting on her attack.
Inb4 ''she's boasting/lying''. That's pretty much the knee jerk reaction people have to this sort of thing. Now think deeply. Why would she boast or lie about this to some impure earthling that's much much weaker than she is? To get validation or to look cool to someone who she just met and who also comes from a shithole ghetto planet (from her perspective at least). Again, why would a blatantly racist lunarian with a superiority complex feel the need to lie about her own abilities to someone she sees as inferior? And from Marisa's perspective she's banking on the speed of her attack being able to overwhelm Yorihime. She knows the extent of her own abilities and she genuinely thought Yorihime wouldn't be able to respond to the attack. Saying that she's lying or boasting to someone she just met while ignoring her own dialogue and the context surrounding the event just doesn't make sense to me.
How hard is it to just take what you see at face value or properly determining the author's intent instead of making weird rationalizations and purposefully leaving out what a character says or ignoring what they say?. That's the other problem i have. People like to pretend that lying and boasting are the ONLY two things a 2hu can ever do. Never mind that they (and real people) lie for a reason. Usually for convenience, to avoid a punishment or to boast. Almost no one lies 24/7 365 about everything. Sometimes a 'hu might tell the truth because there is no reason or benefit to lie. Other times they might be moral and upstanding and aren't prone to lying (Eiki/Kasen). But apparently every single 2hu is a pathological liar whenever they happen to perform a feat deemed too powerful by the readers. Which confuses me since a lot of the powers the man cast has are basically ''fuck physics'' and entire entities can be brought into existence just by pure faith alone. But apparently breaking a law of physics (one that could be disproved in the future) is too much. ZUN could write a story where Ran acts as a speedometer and the person she is measuring turns out to be FTL and people would STILL cope about it. ZUN could also carve the words ''2hus FTL" on Toby Fox's bareback and people would just ignore it.

>>44752255
Thanks for proving my point, Anon. I wasn't saying they aren't FTL, I was saying Marisa's claim was blatant BS because she obviously knows several cases of people able to react to the Master Spark. You're arguing against a person who doesn't exist, now please take your meds and continue to seethe about downplayers that are completely absent from this thread.

>>44752475
isn't master spark highly telegraphed?

reminder that magic actually abides by the law of conservation of energy. marisa mentions it in cage in lunatic runagate

>>44753930
Patchouli speaks of magic and science as two sides of the same coin, so it wouldn't surprise me if magic abided by the laws of physics technically.

Okay well actually it would surprise me quite a lot, luckily ZUN is never going to go out of his way to scientifically explain the magic in touhou

>>44634079
Can't Keine just go "The outside world never came into Gensokyo and will never do so" and be prevent all of it or reverse it?

>>44754761
Keine's Ability only affects history, and seems to hide it rather than destroy it. Not that we'll ever get any clarification because ZUN doesn't even know who she is anymore.

Where is my Youkai of 19th Century Racial Caricatures? They're mostly forgotten so they should be in Gensokyo.

>>44742178
I guess. They don't really make sense anymore now that Gensokyo is way, WAY worse than the future outside world ever was.

>>44743008
I mean, yeah, they do kind of feel like that.

>>44742178
>>44755575
Yeah, back then lore was vague enough that you could see Gensokyo as somewhat okay. Now it's just outside world in minature, but worse, so NWO shit you see in CD stories doesn't feel as bad in comparison.

>>44755699
I mean, it's pretty hard to see Gensokyo as a place where children smile when stumbling across corpses is apparently a common rite of passage.

Supppsedly the lore tells us that Lunarians have technology and weaponry above that of the Outside World, what weapon do they have more powerful than a nuke?

>>44757035
Legal incest, the bane of modern civilization

>>44631884

>>44758549
Imagine if you saw kids playing in your backyard and you tried to shoot at them, only to miss every shot and have them run away. Then they came back a few days later, so you shoot at them again, failing to hit a single one of them. Then they eventually stopped coming so you boast about how you won a war for decades because you do nothing but sit in your house all day.

>>44757035
Lunars have insane tech. But i dont think we even got close to seeing everything they have. If you want to get a rough idea of what they could have based on what we know of their tech level then i suggest reading up on any sci fi books or listen to talks from futurists. Look up Isaac Arthur on youtube. The moonies could have a lot of downright bullshit technology.We know that they can manipulate probability itself to make whatever they want happen. And i also loosely recall them having unlimited energy that powers their world but ill need to check up on that last one.

>>44758625
Imagine if you saw a commenter on an image board blatantly ignoring official text that disproves his fanon.

>>44759064
While the Lunies do indeed have awesome technology at their disposal (Toyo's fan, whatever the hell it is Kaguya expos at EET), they are morbidly afraid of kegare cooties. They would, genuinely, back away from an open confrontation if it meant catching it from humans.

>>44759089
Not a single astronaut died has in the Lunar "War". For all we know the Moonies threatened to kill themselves unless the plans to build on the moon were halted, and the humans left because they're nice like that.

>>44742178
>>44742666
Oh that's kind of a bummer, I liked reading his quirky random stream of conscious at the end of each album like the one where he went on commie rant, though I don't remember which album that was.
I don't remember the quality of each story since the last one I read was quite a while ago but some of the early ones probably don't fit that well with current lore.

>>44759093
They can back away while blasting our asses with advanced tech until we're back in the stone age. Hell some of them dont really need to considering Toyo came to earth. Also i would LOVE to attend Kagu's expos.
>>44759290
How hard is it to read Cage in Lunatic Runagate? You just look at the words and then they mean something. That's a lot easier than dick riding Niel Armstrong.

>>44759934
So humans go to the moon sending a handful of men in a hostile environment against the entire Lunarian army and all the technology they possess. Not only do they fail to kill Neil and Buzz, (Again two unarmed men that weren't expecting an attack) and fail to kill or capture them and they escape with just a few wounds. They repeatedly went to the Moon, with only a single expedition failing due to Eirin. They failed to build a base on the moon, but never had the means to do so in the first place. The Lunarians want you to think this is so great victory.

>>44759934
>How hard is it to read Cage in Lunatic Runagate?
You mean the print work that further reinforces that the average Lunarian is incredibly sedentary, that the top brass are absolute morons that claim everything is a victory, such as the power conflicts in the wake of Hourai Branches dying causing human military technology to grow rapidly, and proves beyond any doubt that Toyohime, the Earth's Warden in their eyes, really doesn't care to interfere with Earth at all?

It's also worth noting that the text you're citing isn't word of god, it's Eirin's internal monologue. It's not out of the question that she overestimates the competence of Tsukuyomi, who, as the top dog there, could easily manage to squander all the advantages that the Lunar Capital has at its disposal.

>>44760067
Lunarians use Moon Rabbits for dealing with unimportant incidents like that and they are not exactly the best soldiers.

>>44760423
Sounds like you are making excuses.
If it was unimportant then why did they hide?

>>44760447
They don't want to deal with bald mortal monkeys, the less contact the better

>>44760499
So it is cope on your part.
Makes sense

>>44760515
the whole point of creating lunar capital was to run away from earth in order to not deal with activities like dying or defecating so it makes sense that they don't even want to look at humans now since their whole existence is a sin

>>44760539
The entire Lunarian armed forces lost to these playful goofballs and they hid in fear.

>>44760642
Lunarian "armed forces" are slapstick comedy rabbits that need to be deceived into thinking that they are going to build a summer house instead of invading

>>44742178
>Q : Any plans on releasing a Hifuu CD soon?
ZUN : I won't say yes or no. I think you can look forward to it. I make the Hifuu CDs whenever I have spare time from making the games. So I'm not sure if one coming out should be cause for celebration, hahaha.

>>44760642
How the hell did lunar rabbits get PTSD from them?
Were they hopping towards them menacingly?

>>44760067
>Still not reading the text.
>>44760332
Its the word of a god of wisdom. One that is clearly objective considering that she isnt on good terms with the moon and sided with Kaguya. She chose impurity over purity. She's also talking about the situation in a very impartial way. She also isnt overestimating Tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi is millennia old and Eirin knows Tsukuyomi personally. And besides that everything she said is validated. Think about how humanity pretty much never came back to the moon right after these missions. Or how Kaguya literally has a gallery of tech beyond our wildest dreams.
So let me explain the text in very simple terms for you, the HUMANS reported their mission as a success despite it very clearly not being one. They couldnt come close to establishing a foothold on the moon. The humans are in fact the sedentary retards with incompetent top brass that claim everything is a victory, which happens in the real world as well. Also human technology isnt nearly as advanced in the capital. The Lunatic Kingdom has items that can manipulate mass and allow the user to fly, they have hand held vulcan canons and they can manipulate probability which is how they got to the moon in the first place. Toyo's fan is also quite formidable. The only reason why you're doubting anything she's saying is because what she says makes you uncomfortable. I've seen twitter users and redditors with better fanon than this.

Kaguya also mentioned that Lunarians not only turned some earthlings into monsters (youkai) but are also the originators of magic, is this just information from the Lunarians's ego and they just want to take credit for a lot of things or did they genuinely create those things?

>>44761531
More like you eat up lunar propaganda and want to believe it and think junk left behind like the lunar rover and lunar module proves them right lol.

>>44761531
>Humans send men to the moon to the moon to mess around. The might of the Lunarian army fails to capture or kill a single one. Humans decide to leave because it's too much trouble.
TOTAL LUNARIAN VICTORY

>A really angry spirit juices up some fairies (Which mind you, an average man with no magical abilities can beat) to the moon. This nearly kills everyone there and forces them to flee. No action was taken on the villain that attempted to destroy their home
TOTAL LUNARIAN VICTORY.

The only true victories they have is halting Yukari's invasions and one of them was designed to fail.

Also Project A119 should have happened. That would have shown the Moonies.

>>44761632
Lunarians BS regularly, as the Mental Layer disproves their claims of being the original creators of Youkai, when they themselves are the creation of humans.
>>44761724
>The only true victories they have is halting Yukari's invasions and one of them was designed to fail.
That's giving Yukari, and the Lunarians by extension, more credit than she deserves. If it was truly designed to fail, her second invasion wouldn't have been "out of revenge for her first failure."

>>44761837
lunarians are not the creation of humans, it's more like they originated from humans and became lunarians when they settled on the moon

Steal lunar sake
Watatsuki sisters seethe

Stay in the lunar capital for a month
Give lunar bunnies head pats

Sorry for intruding but I have solved what danmaku battles are.
>The spell card rules are dueling rules that allow both parties to show off their skills in a beautiful competition.
>Spell cards are techniques specially-named by the individual, and they must be declared upon use.
>The number of each party's spell cards must be determined in advance of a duel.
>The first party to have all of their spell cards beaten must admit defeat.
>The victor is entitled only to what was agreed upon before the duel. If they're not interested in what their opponent has to offer, they can refuse a duel.
>Winners should generally allow losers a rematch.

Now imagine a regular fistfight happening under these rules, no danmaku involved, what is it? It does exist. I'll give you a moment to figure it out, nishishi....
It's hardcore wrestling, endurance type match as it's based on all the cards being beaten.
Clicked in your head hasn't it? Of course, it's a "magical" wrestling fight so it's adapted as such, but it fits really well doesn't it? And there's no planned finish (the match is a work, as the cards (techniques) used are planned in advance), so it's shoot wrestling/strong style. Danmaku are still dangerous (as seen in GoU for the most recent example I can think of) just like wrestling moves. Don't do danmaku at home kids.
ZUN is Japanese, so he's obligated to have at least one wrestling inspiration in his work. What do you think everyone?

>>44761849
Eirin and Tsukuyomi are both products of human belief, as are the rest of the Amatsukami that the Lunarians are in origin. Even the few of them that were originally human wouldn't have been able to travel to the Moon without the assistance of Eirin's Phenomena Intervention, and therefore are indirect creations of humanity.

>>44762059
Not really no, only Moon Gods (and rabbits) could be argued to be from the belief of humans, and even then the Lunarians used to be ancient humans who had knowledge about quantum mechanics unlike the rest of humanity and used it to escape impurity and settle on the Moon

On a side note, Gods don't always come from humans, it's worth acknowledging that even youkai faith is valid to Gods aswell (said by Kanako)

>>44762059
Lunarians are Taoist in origin.
That is why zun thinks of them as Chinese.
They're are part of the jade emperor's court.

>>44762203
>the Lunarians used to be ancient humans who had knowledge about quantum mechanics unlike the rest of humanity and used it to escape impurity and settle on the Moon
It was Eirin who did that, there's no indication any of humanity at the time knew anything about that, especially given that Toyohime understanding Eirin's lecture on quantum mechanics was considered impressive, and she's one of the Amatsukami.

>>44762203
>it's worth acknowledging that even youkai faith is valid to Gods aswell (said by Kanako)
Of course, human creations receiving faith from other human creations.

>>44762207
I'm aware of the connection ZUN draws between the Lunarians and the Chinese, but that appears to mostly be a political thing as there's nothing, last I checked, that connects them to Taoism or the Jade Emperor's Court beyond Takamagahara being a close analogue.

>>44762568
>there's nothing, last I checked, that connects them to Taoism or the Jade Emperor's Court beyond
Chang'e is part of his court and the jade emperor is the one who gave the exiler of immortality to her husband hou yi whom she stole it from.

>>44762617
Chang'e is a prisoner there, so if anything that disproves the claim of the Lunar Capital being the Jade Emperor's Court.

>>44762662
Because she stole from her husband a gift from the jade emperor.
Try to keep up

Lunar guards wear ancient chinese armour.

>>44754790
Then she could hide the part of history in which the outside world found Gensokyo.
I love that plot point for Imperishable Night but what a mess of a power.

>>44762724
Most hax powers don't work outside the barrier because youkai are weak shits.

>>44762694
Secondary-kun, she was imprisoned because she consumed the Hourai Elixir which is established to be a crime.

>>44762739
>Secondary-kun
Zun has called touhou a secondary work

>>44762802
Oh, you're a shitposter then, understandable. Please change and grow as a person.

>>44762827
Me bringing up facts that hurt your feelings and make you project your insecurities is your problem not mine.
Elaborate how zun calling touhou a secondary work makes me a shitposter?
Have you tried taking your own advice?

I guess the way the Lunarians lost against the humans the same way youkai and gods disappeared due to lack of belief even when they already existed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>44762003
lmao it was wizard wrestling all along.

>>44762711
And lunar rabbits use old ass WW2 guns with bayonets

>>44631884
OP is a human supremist larper
99% American

>human supremist larper
>larper
uhhhhh does anon know what that means

>>44765225
Cope harder, stop pretending like you know anything about Touhou, amershit

>>44761531
>Its the word of a god of wisdom. One that is clearly objective considering that she isnt on good terms with the moon and sided with Kaguya.
Eirin's part in Bougetsushou is all about how she's nowhere near as clever as she believes herself to be, and her big plan to stop Yukari's "invasion" is foiled by the simplest trick in the book. A child could come up with the idea to send three groups to deal with two guards, but Eirin couldn't even conceive of that idea and was left completely flabbergasted by Yukari's acquisition of the Lunar sake.
The moonies are also so incompetent that Yuyuko could fuck around for a full month without anyone recognizing her as an invader, simply because she didn't trigger their tree-based alarm that they rely on exclusively.

Eirin also isn't on bad terms with the moon. Even though she's ostensibly a "criminal", the Lunarians don't actually care enough to pressure the Watatsukis to actually hunt her down, and Eirin herself clearly still cares, since she masterminds the plot to stop Yukari in Bougetsushou, as well as form her own plan to stop Junko's invasion that Sagume then goes along with (but even then, VFiS shows that she didn't realize Hecatia's involvement, even if things worked out regardless, and in Reisen's normal LoLK ending, Kaguya seems to be the one who realizes that Junko wasn't working alone based on what Clownpiece said). She clearly believes in Lunarian supremacy, even if she chose to stay by Kaguya on Earth, and it's this very arrogance that leads her to repeatedly mess up throughout the series.

>>44762847
How the hell can you post on /jp/ and not know what doujin means?

>>44766090
Please refrain from exposing your fragility

>>44766430
>Yuyuko could fuck around for a full month without anyone recognizing her as an invader, simply because she didn't trigger their tree-based alarm that they rely on exclusively.
That's because she's a ghost and as far as I know ghosts and spirits are purer than lunarians

That being said, while humans undoubtedly have kegare, can the same be said for youkai? They don't seem to age normally, or atleast extremely slowly

>>44766467
It baffles the mind when one ignores that zun has copied other works apparently.

>>44767708
> why are outside humans so strong bros?
> exposing your fragility

Who are you kidding

>>44768140
You're kidding yourself.
You can lie to yourself but you cannot lie to others.

Troonhou moment.

>>44767744
She's also a weirdo who clearly doesn't belong on the moon, and made little to no effort to hide. The moon rabbits being retarded is one thing, but given how blatant she was (>>44761913), I can't imagine that no proper Lunarian saw her during that month.
The intruder was right in their faces the whole time, but since she didn't set off the kegare detectors, they just ignored her completely. They have to be pretty fucking stupid as a race to ignore her the whole month.
And even if she somehow managed to avoid the actual Lunarians for a full month, they'd still be retarded to trust their retarded slave caste with anything important.

>>44768492
A bit of an aside perhaps, but why exactly would they care if Yuyuko and Youmu were pure? They despise kegare, that's what they wanted to get away from when they moved to the Moon. If the two didn't bring any kegare in, well, who gives a damn? It's not like they don't have beings of other, superficially non-Lunarian races around.

>>44766430
Ignoring the shitposter you replied to, it is worth noting that, as far as I know, nothing ever implies that Eirin was flabbergasted by the result, or that she even learns of it. While it's probably likely that Eirin isn't as wise as she believes, underestimating Yukari isn't unreasonable. It's less likely that Eirin couldn't conceive of the idea, and more likely that, like everyone else who is a decent judge of character, she realized Yukari is completely incompetent, not to mention that at any time Toyohime could've slaughtered her in an instant, and there would be nothing that could counter that. Also keep in mind that the idea that, as you put it, a child could come up with, was one Yukari herself acted as though it was impressive, which speaks volumes as to her level of intelligence.

As for the latter half of your post, what you say is mostly true except for the Lunarian Supremacy bit, which is a little iffy. Her dialogue and internal monologue in CiLR seems to generally appreciate human culture, even if she does think the Lunarians are superior technologically. (and regardless of technology, they DO have a society without war or violent conflicts when a certain blonde hag isn't being a petty moron.)

>>44768527
They're sake thieves, anon. You can't trust them Netherworld dwellers.
But I really don't know what I could say to you to convince you that having unidentified strangers running around is a bad thing for any society, even if they can't give you cooties. They're lucky that Yuyuko is so good-natured, because she could've done much worse than just steal some booze.

>>44768684
Not that anon but if Yuyuko/Youmu were to do something worse or outright malicious on the moon beyond stealing some fancy sake, like say kill some Lunarians, then that would have invited reprisals on the moonies parts. Up to and including death and maybe actual destruction of Gensokyo itself.

Do Touhou literally operate off the "Tinkerbell Effect"? Enough belief about supernatural beings and phenomena start spawning them

>>44769997
pretty much, it's mentioned somewhere that urban legends in the outside world are basically the modern equivalent of youkai, but the belief in them is not as genuine or strong enough for them to hold a stable presence, so their existence is said to be considerably weak and sometimes they even disappear shortly after they appear, kanako says this is a sympton of those stories being talked in a more gossip way than in a fearful way

>>44769997
It's basically the same metaphysics as SMT, which certain PC-98 designs such as Yumeko confirm ZUN is a fan of. CoLA explains this in greater detail with the Three Layer Cosmology, with sufficient belief creating a stable Mental Layer presence for beings to exist.

>>44770160
though in all honest the "belief" is vague and it need to be genuine and strong to allow for youkai existence, as simply believing in a half-hearted way is not enough for youkai to spawn, one such example are abrahamic religions where most followers do it out of obligation rather than genuine belief, the fact that materialistic science is rampant throughout the outside world also makes supernatural phenomena hard to appear, it's all about the zeitgeist

>>44760699
thing is, he doesn't actually have that spare time anymore because if he's not making the games, he's with his family

>>44738683
Now that you ask for it. Can you guys help me or give me ideas to write a realistic continuation for >>44634079 . One accurate to the lore.

>>44770160
>which certain PC-98 designs such as Yumeko confirm ZUN is a fan of
Also, you know, literally just having SMT alice as a character.

>>44769306
Sure, but the moonies don't know that. They're fortunate that Yuyuko is smart/moral enough to not do anything horrible, but "I hope my enemy isn't an asshole" is not a great basis for your security protocols.
The Watatsukis took Yukari as being quite serious in her plans, even if they figured that she was too incompetent to do any real harm. Yuyuko having free reign of the Lunar Capital should be a huge cause for alarm, but the moonies are so far up in their own ass that they never realized it. At the most charitable, they're dangerously complacent.

>>44768180
is that your motto? is that how you come up with all these shitty head canon?

>>44772148
I like how fragile you are and your hilarious attempt at damage control.
Really is amusing how you are proving my point lol
It seems I struck a nerve

>>44767796
Where's the full collection of Touhou/ZUN fun facts and trivia?

>>44772148
>>44772282
Now kiss.

>>44772424
They came with pc98 games pack:
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=13903.0
Take into account that it's mostly about touhou 1-5 and that some info might be outdated like picrel where the girl in the background turned out to be traced another game, from tournament of the gods 2 I think it was.

>>44774065
Oh damn, thank you man