/jp/ - Otaku Culture

This is a superior game screenshot, even if it is not from HF.

>>4460265

>>4460299
What, The, Fuck.

>>4460265
That's a penis. If you weren't a disgusting lesbian you would know that.

I actually just started F/SN the other day. Five years too late, I know.

I just beat the Fate route, and that ending made me want to cry like a bitch. Are the other routes any better or does it pretty much go downhill from here?

I heard there's some pretty horrifying shit in Heaven's Feel, too.

>>4460344
Rin's bi-sexual, not a lesbian.

>>4460299

Also I'm just starting Unlimited Blade Works now, please tell me this is real.

>>4460376
If fate depressed you, prepare yourself for HF. UBW is not that sad though, there's some BAWing, but HF is just making at least one of the main characters die.

>>4460376
In my opinion Fate is the worst route, even though it's still great. UBW and HF are pretty even.

>>4460376
>I just beat the Fate route
>beat

Oooh! Tell us how you did it! How hard was it? Tell us your secrets.

>>4460344
Shirou said that line. You missed the point, bro.

>>4460405

Well excuse my poor choice of words. I guess I could have said "finished", but I'm not exactly familiar with visual novel terminology.

>>4460390
It's fake, it was posted on mirror moon download site for the patch. The real one is >>3360265

>>4460385
Not a big difference. She likes girls more than guys either way.

>>4460419
I meant >>4460265 D:

>>4460228
Magic.

Also something to do with one of the sorceries.

>>4460421
Can you blame her? I like girls more than guys, too.

Has the UBW movie been subbed yet?

>>4460421

Rin is straight for Shirou.

;_;

>>4460469
I don't think so, no DVDs/BDs yet. If Shirou X Archer and Gil X Shirou aren't as awesome as the VN, Deen is going to pay with their lives.

Berserker, I choose you!

BURUMA!

>>4460519
Did anyone say BURUMA?!

>>4460442
You mean she used the third sorcery to destroy the Great Holy Grail and Save Shirou at the same time?

>>4460228
Shirou blew up the grail and the Angra Manyu with Excalibur and then Illya saved his soul so that Rin could put it in a body later.

>>4460541
The core of the Greater Grail was Justica von Einsbern, and Every Homunculus is based after her. She essentially shut down the core that makes this shit function. As for Shirou, she used an application of the 3d True Magic, Heaven's Feel, the one that Justica could use and the one the Holy Grail was built for(at least for the Einsberns). It was not perfect, but it 'healed' Shirou's soul and transferred it to another vessel (if you remember from some Fate Bad Ends, Illya could already do the Soul transfer). After that, it was a matter of finding Shirou a proper vessel (human-like) for his soul to latch on. Rin and the gang after quite a bit of searching got a puppet from a magus that could work. Soul Transfer by itself is not a miracle, but Ilya healing Shirou who was about to implode in a mess of Swords is.
In fact, wit Ilya explaining the mechanics of the Grail for you before(Avenger, Einsber family purpose etc), it's surprising she does not try to save your ass in the first place and you have to earn the Happy ending, since everything points to this kind of situation.

>>4460887
So she died because she saved shirou? Also, the mess of swords was in his body, why did it affect his soul?
>>4460843
I believe that using another projection was enough to kill him.

>>4460376
In Fate, Shirou learns to not take everything into his own hands and allows Saber to fight for him.

UBW is about him becoming a fighter in his own right. This a route of very gritty fighting and is actually more about Shirou than anyone else.

Heaven's Feel will be familiar if you've played Tsukihime, as it has that same fantasy/horror vibe. There are some really chilling scenes in it and the overall feel is much darker than the other two routes.

People say Fate is the weakest, but it's also the route that has the most setting up to do and the fights are more explosive than the more twisted and crazy stuff that goes down in the other routes. Fate gets a little underrated while its heroine get overrated, the opposite problem of Heaven's Feel.

Still, it's hard not to think of Heaven's Feel as the best route--it's certainly the most unique.

>>4460975
All the Homunculi of Eisbern are supposed to die/vanish when they become part of the Grail, saving Shirou is a different matter(she could do it because she became part of it, thus she was gone no matter what). She survived in Fate cause Saber destroyed the Gate from which Angra would emerge, but the actual Grail Core still exists

>>4461036
If you compare it to Tsukihime, UBW and Fate are two sides of the same story kinda like Near Side, while Heaven's Feel is a completely different matter altogether like Far Side. Also, UBW and Fate are about "new" heroines for the hero while HF's focus is his "family". Personally, I think that UBW is the true answer to Shirou's quest, while Fate is an introduction and Heaven's Feel is a bonus route. Some backing for this argument is that on HF he gave up on his ideals, on Fate he kept them, and on UBW he kept them but he accepted that they were impossible and after Rin's promise with Archer to not allow Shirou to become like Archer it sounds hard for him to become Archer. The Shirou that would probably become Archer is the Fate Shirou (also the weakest), but well the Shirou that would become Archer probably did not even meet Archer so it doesn't matters.

>>4461060
So she survived in Fate and HF normal end because of the destruction of the Gate/Great Holy Grail, but the Holy Grail still existed on her body?

>>4461105
She does not have the Holy Grail inside her, she IS from the very start the vessel which stores the souls of Servants. That's the Einsbern Homunculus role. With the Lesser grail destroyed in Fate and the Greater inactive(and assuming the souls were pulled out by Kotomine when the Gate opened), she is just a vessel. But exactly because she was amde to be a vessel, she will not last long...
As for UBW, she died before any of this would matter.

>>4461036
In Fate he is pressured with his past
In UBW he is pressured with the future
In HF he is preassured with choices he doesn't want to make

In Fate He may have in fact just strengthened his initial naive possition as he once again conquered his past reassuring himself that nothing is wrong.
In UBW He is shown the flaws of his ideal and forces him to rethink/reconsider several things
In HF Shirou is simply presented with choices he never wanted having to make, forcing him to take action

>>4461172
In Fate he keeps his ideals. In UBW he changes his ideals to fit with what Archer said but probably gave up soon after the ending. In HF he gave up on his ideals because of Sakura.

>>4461092
Actually, I think that in all three of the routes Shirou's ideal changes but I don't think he ever abandons it fully. I agree totally with UBW, but in Fate I think Shirou's ideal changes too. I don't think even he is aware of it, but Saber is essentially suffering from the same mistake he is making and in trying to save her from it I think that Shirou learns the destruction that comes with self sacrifice. In HF his desire to save everyone is taken to the extreme and he takes the opposite path from Archer. Archer would sacrifice a hundred to save a thousand, but Shirou wants to save everyone. Before HF, he isn't faced with the choice of having to sacrifice someone to save others. He's faced with Archer's paradox and chooses the other way. In a way he abandons his ideal, but no more than Archer did. That's just how I think of it.

>>4461228
I agree with HF, now that I think about it you're right. But saving Sakura isn't what a superhero would do, a superhero would kill her. That's why I think that he betrayed it more than Archer. Also, about Fate, would mind giving an example of change that Saber caused in Shirou? Although I agree that the dreams probably made her notice his errors and try to do something, I can't see any change that she caused.

This game is so fucking deep

>>4461276
Comic wise, a super hero never kills anyone and saves everyone.
A keeper of order who tries to do what's most efficient is the one who kills. But that is not what a hero means to Shirou.

>>But exactly because she was amde to be a vessel, she will not last long...

if she's able to transfer souls though, wouldn't it be possible to do the same thing she does to shirou in hf?

transfer own soul into touko's doll, get longer life since you're no longer in a faulty homunculus body.

>>4461284
Not really. It's not hard to follow and what concerns the characters is not that abstract or anything.
It's just something most people don't get that concerned about usually, in ridiculous circumstances nonetheless.

>>4461276
What a superhero wouldn't do would be not so save people, in HF he still saved people, he just tried to save everyone instead of taking an easier and safer path but that would require a casualty without doubt.
The collateral damage might have been worse in the end but the goal he aimed for was to save them all, more naive perhaps but at least he acted on it as opposed to Archer

>>4461313
Remember Zouken's problem.

>>4461313
It could be so that not only her body is weak but we won't know without Nasu.

>>4461337
Zouken wasn't able to use the Third Sorcery. Also, Zouken was an Human and not an Homunculus.

>>4461276
I think the point is that superheroes are never faced with that kind of choice, but yeah Archer's method is more pragmatic and that's probably what they'd do if they had to. As for Fate, I think the change in Shirou is subtle, but look at the way he gradually accepts that Saber can fight on her own and how they learn to rely on each other rather than bear the weight of the world on their shoulders alone. I think that sort of change in Shirou may be enough for him to understand the problems in his own ideal. It's been a while and I don't have anything more concrete than that, but that's how I felt by the end

>>4461315
I agree. It is mostly a generic Boy meets girl plot.

>>4461348
Neither can Ilya.
Transferring Souls does not fix the problem.
And exactly being a homunculus leads to the problem.
It does not say the BODY only stops functioning, they just cannot live long enough.
If Ilya can extend her life, it would be through different means.

>>4461359
Generic...No, not really. But yeah, the actual themes are simple. The events and what the characters are concerned about are just not what you usually see.

How's the FSN anime?

>>4461337
> Remember Zouken's problem.
yeah. he lived for well over a hundred years, so his soul degraded.

i didn't say make ilya live forever, just live for about the same time as other humans.

>>4461348
What if Ilya didn't have a soul at all, and it was just a fabrication based on Justizia?
>>4461284
Not really, I am just bugged by small things, not important really.
>>4461358
Oh, I got it now. Looking at it that way, it certainly makes sense. I would still say that Fate Shirou believes in his ideals more than both UBW or HF shirou, though.

>>4461358
You don't think Shirou would have done it by himself if he would have been capable to do so?

>>4461380
It's shit. It's an amalgam of Fate, Key HF points and a few UBW points. Avoid it if you can play the game. In other words, above average anime and better than Tsukihime anime, but pales in comparison with the original, kinda like Higurashi Anime.

>>4461380
Worse than the none-existant other one DEEN made for TM

>>4461418
Pretty sure DEEN didn't make that other, non-existent one.

>>4461414
There was far less HF than UBW.

>>4461387
The point is she lasts less than humans, and it's not an easy or viable method (assuming she can do it on herself in the first place).

What? Is this smart discussion, on my /jp/?! C'mon, I expect more from you! Let's forget this and just dump random TYPE-MOON pics.

>>4461428
There was still Tohsaka Sakura. There was no Dark Sakura but that was still a key plot point. Well, I must agree with that though.

>>4461391
Definitely agreed on the last point.

>>4461399
The point is that he isn't capable. No human is, not even someone with great power like Saber.

You gotta be 2/3 god to carry the weight of the world.

>>4461387
She herself does not wants to live. If she did she would probably manage to extend her life span somehow. Maybe PLOTARMOR?
>>4461439
STFU.
>>4461428
http://anidb.net/a1015 J.C. Staff

>>4461439
I can't even believe how hard Nasu trolled me by casually mentioning an Illya route at one point.I don't even want to fuck her, she just really needs one.

>>4461459
I smell a butthurt Gil fanboy. He always dies.

>>4461485
No, Nasu's notes in Fate/zero make it really clear.

>>4461459
Sure, he isn't capable but he tries to become that.
Shirou really doesn't care about how plausible his ideal is.

Does Saber get a happy ending in any route or does she die/disappear in all endings?

>>4461502
If you just want spoilers, you can look them up, you know.

>>4461481
Well, Nasu did say that he scrapped the Ilya route because she was a loli and also a non-blood related sister because they shared the same father. It was on Fate/Zero Volume 1 Postface by Gen Urobochi IIRC. Relevant text:
>I was writing the Fate Saber route at the time, and was sent into the hospital near my house due to illnesses. TYPE-MOON was still doujin at the time, and Fate was yet a fledgling draft with four main routes including an Ilya route.

>>4461501
And Shirou learns that there are limitations to his ideals. Even in Fate route.

The original Roa could kill everyone in Fate/Stay Night with a wave of his hand.

>>4461502
Happy ending for Saber is only avaliable on UBW Good End aka Harem End.

>>4461523
Yes, cause SPELLS are mighty successful in F/SN.
Nice try on the derail though.

>>4461502
Last Episode and UBW Good, but UBW Good can be seen as a worse fate than that in Fate.
Last Episode is eternal good end.

>>4461523
The Crimson Moon, Zelretch, TYPE-MOON, TYPE-VENUS, etc, could kill everyone in the non-overpowered Nasuverse easily.

>>4461532

Original Roa has Square.

Square -> everything he can do is potentially EX. Even Saber is fucked.

SHIKI Roa can do this too in Actress Again and in the manga, but he can't spam it like the original could.

>>4461512
You meant blood-related, right? But isn't she a clone or something? The homunculous thing is confusing at best. I'd be so happy with a clean no sex route. Or she could magically look like her mom for the sex scenes. I'd be more than pleased with that.

But I can only dream.

>>4461547
So, unrelated civilians?
Fascinating.

>>4461512
>was sent into the hospital near my house due to illnesses
Sickly moe~

>>4461542
Why would UBW Good be bad? Or are you butthurt because Saber belongs to Rin? ahaha.wav

>>4461556
It's not moe till we see a picture of his.

>>4461554
Shirou is not related to Kiritsugu, so no.

>>4461513
I really don't think he matured that much at all.
Even Nasu called Fate a "Child's" route whith UBW being a "Teenager's" and HF an "Adult's".
I don't really know what I would say about that in detail but it sure does imply that it is the route he matures the least in and that is something that I probably would agree on.

I mean I don't think he came to a new conclusion that his ideal was harder to achieve or anything, he always prusued an impossible ideal, he always knew that.
In the war his capabilities wasn't enough as he hadn't reached it yet, but that doesn't mean that he had learned anything more than that there is still far, far more of the road left.

Don't mind me, just killing a servant here.

>>4461559
It's not a definite good end, Saber does still have questions which is why she wants to stay. It leaves the door open for Happy Fun Times End

>>4461559
It's a bad end in the sense that Saber is pretty much still in the same position she was in the start and is likely to repeat the process of trying to obtain the grail to undo her "mistakes".

>>4461574
Nasu said that Fate and UBW are question routes with different slants and Heaven's Feel is the answer route. Wikipedia said they are child, teenager and adult.

>>4461554
Read Fate/Zero. She is Kiritsugu's biological daughter.
>>4461555
I chuckled.
>>4461559
Rin as a dirty lesbian would rape Saber and keep her away from Shirou and the desired Threesome.

>>4461579
More like Archer putting on his rape face.
Archer and Cal...
I'll be on my bunker.

>>4461592
See >>4460385
>>4461589
Oh, I get it now.
>>4461582
I didn't get shit about that Last Episode, anyone would care to explain?

>>4461589
She loses her direction after witnessing the foolish fight between Archer and Shirou, realizing her own foolishness in the process. Luckily she has people she can depend on now, eh?

>>4461591
No he really did say it in an interview I believe, wich one I can't remember but he have been questioned about these kinds of things several times you know and he doesn't give the same answer the same way all the time so.

>>4461612
Two miracles occurred and now Shirou and Saber get to be together forever in somewhere. Or at least, that's how I interpreted it.
Alternatively, Merlin just being a master troll again, but that's kind of depressing.

>>4461606
Even the bone of his sword could not pierce her hymen.

>>4461612
Essentially:
Saber does not care about the Grail anymore. She found her answer and accepted her past. Thus, she dies and stops her cycle of fighting .Shirou keeps his resolve to stand for his beliefs no matter what and never forget Saber. That's essentially the Fate end.
However(narration bonus by Merlin), the two desrved happined together. The only way they could achieve it is if Saber waited for Shirou , and Shirou sought her out . Saber did wait. Shirou lived his life fulfilling his ideal and never forgetting Saber. When he died, he eventually reached the same place Saber is. After their life, they are reunited in the world of heroes.
Or something like that.

>>4461635
It's not like these interpretations CONTRADICT each other.

>>4461646

Good end of the year, all years.

>>4461550
Yes, the original Roa was pretty powerful, he also had True Ancestor powers

>>4461591
Except that she is even more lost at the end of the UBW "good end" as she also realised that the grail couldn't grant her wish, leaving her almost no different than a lost lamb as she still desired her wish to be granted, only with no means to have it granted.

Through that sense good end is really the worst end for her.

>>4461662
I think you quoted the wrong post, bro.

>>4461662
Seeing Archer, she has doubt about her ideals and what she seeks.
Doubt is much better than just redoing this shit with no questions asked.

>>4461579
who dat

>>4461662
But she isn't alone anymore. THAT was her biggest problem. UBW Good End certainly could go very very wrong and become a horrific bad end for everyone involved. But most of all with the tone of the epilogue it leaves the door open for everyone to be happy.

>>4461688
Archer

Heaven's Feel is the adult route because it's absolute shit, except for a few spectacular moments.

And then you die.

>>4461662
All she has in that route is friends, but otherwise she is pretty much fucked, it is pretty sad.

I also don't really get why so many people have trouble with the Fate True end.
Not counting Last Episode it really is the best possible end for her.
In that end she was convinced that the life she had led had been a good one, in fact better than most and also that it was a life to proud of. She doesn't reach that conclusion in any of the other endings, it is the only ending were she feels that the life she had lived had meaning.
And then there is the fact that she had also already lived her life, the life of Arthur was no ordinary life, she lived her life and "died" only to recieve some "bonus life" the moment before her death, and that is already more than most people get, and she also reaches the conclusion that she shouldn't sully that life by living another one that she shouldn't have lived and while Shirou didn't fully like that at first he also understood it and accepted it.
For her to reach the conclusion that her life had been a good one truly must have been one of the greatest gifts she could have recieved considering how she had already lived her life only to regret everything at the end, with her newfound answer she died happily. And eveyrone dies, and she also already happened to be "dead" and her life was a good either way.

So what are people finding it so sad really? In lmost every discussion about Saber everyone always ramles about her supposedly "sad" ending.

>>4461773

Pretty much this.

>>4461786
It's the bittersweet feeling from Shirou's perspective.
Even it it is the best for her, the loss and the goodbye weigh just a bit heavily.
But Shirou understands it is for the best too.
But she is not 'pretty much' fucked.
It's a the second best conclusion presented. She has doubts, and has people who can help her find an answer and that she trusts. Much more hopeful than 'Die, do it again in another Grail'.

>>4461786
Because most of us expected a happy "Together with Shirou" end for Fate, and well to me, that wasn't the saddest part, but rather the way Shirou acted in the Epilogue had the most impact to me. Or it might have just been that damn BGM.

Why did that slutkura stay with shirou and saber had to die?

>>4461888
Cause different events and circumstances lead to different outcomes?
Just an idea/

Maybe it's because I haven't done her route yet but Sakura seems like a really boring character.

What's so great about Heaven's Feel?

>>4461903
EMIYA SHIROU

>>4461888
She stays in one end.

Of course, she belongs to Rin in that end...

>>4461903
Where the fuck did you hear people hyping HF?

>>4461917
You belong to Rin too, so all is well.

>>4461903
Because she does jack squat in the other two routes.

Heaven's Feel will either make you lover her or hate her.

>>4461903
The parts that don't involve cooking with Sakura.

>>4461903
Best fights.
Shirou ditching his ideals.
Learn how to cook.

>>4461919
When the anime was new and everyone was parroting the 'fate is shit they shoulda animated ubw/hf'.

>>4461944
>Shirou ditching his ideals.

That's terrible. Shirou isn't Shirou without his ideals.

>>4461903
Honestly, I forgot who Sakura was when she reappeared in UBW and HF after reading the preceding route.

>>4461952
So you have been wondering about this shit for 3 and a half years?
Jesus christ on a stick.

>>4461963
So you have a shitty memory.

>>4461828
>Much more hopeful than 'Die, do it again in another Grail'.
Perhaps, but even though she had doubts and friends supporting her, there really is nothing that implies that she would reach her answer within their lifetime, as I bet something with the same weight of "drama/climax" as the fate route would happen again.
Saber was really stubborn, she almost didn't reach that conclusion even after everything they went through in that route.

And while I just like Shirou and most likely others would find it wrong, Saber wants her wish granted and with an infinite number of times she would eventually reach that grail.

Archer's Ideal was impossible for him to fully reach as a Counter Guardian thus he was sent into an infinite loop of cleansing against his will, witnessing the uglyness of mankind.
But obtaining the Grail isn't impossible, with her contract with Gaia and the promise of an infinite number of times she would eventually reach it.
So a "neutral end" could be considered a happier end for Saber.

>>4461966
I'm not >>4461903
But what I mean is that UBW and HF have been hyped to hell and back since 2006 and have had some pretty big backlash to the hype on this very board.

Isn't the new movie based on UBW?

>>4461931
Bullshit, I don't belong to that bitch.

>>4461997
No. No, it wouldn't.
The whole point is that reaching the Grail and trying to fulfill that wish is WRONG. Anything that has her just doing the same shit is not a good end.
And Saber retains her memories in the cycles.
Having those doubts would greatly benefit her later on no matter what. A chance of her letting go of the foolish wish is much better than 'nothing at all', even if she did not reach the answer during Rin and Shirou's lifetime.

>>4461888
Because Arthur lived a magical life of mighty conquests, establishing revolutionary ideas and ideals throughout the country bringing fame and glory to her people and then later mortally wounded and died.
That's why Saber had to die.

>>4462002
It was mostly people wishing for what they did not have, obviously. It has good and bad points like any route.
>>4462017
Shirou does.

>>4462036

Except that Saber felt no emotion during her life, and basically sacrificed herself for the sake of her country.

That's why her ending is sad, she gets what she wanted in the end but it still feels unfair that she did all of that and still didn't get a "happy" ending with Shirou or something.

>>4462044
Yes, of course. But Fate route will forever retain the "it's shit" stigma.

I am a little butthurt.

>>4462062
It wasn't all doom and gloom for Arturia. It became that way after her close friends and mentor left her, Lancelot, Merlin and Guinevere.

There are some nice insights into her life in hollow ataraxia.

>>4462068
HF actually bears it among most people who have read it (on 4chan).
And besides, what SHEEPLE shout randomly should not concern you.
Just read it and decide for yourself.

>>4462080
>There are some nice insights into her life in hollow ataraxia.
Too bad they'll never finish translating it.

>>4462080

Is Hollow Ataraxia actually good or is it just fanservice?

>>4462099
Both.

>>4462099
Both.

>>4462099
Shirou goes on a date with Ayako. You tell me.

>>4462099
Hollow Ataraxia is FUN

>>4462099
If you liked at least some of the characters in Fate/stay night you should be able to find some enjoyment from hollow ataraxia.

There is some seriousness to it, mostly when dealing with the main storyline.

>>4462099
It has Avenger who is pretty much the greatest TM Bro.

What's the deal with the translation of HA, then?

I googled it but all I got were a bunch of forum posts from like 2007.

>>4462175
Don't you follow the weekly translation status threads?

>>4462175
Many dudes were translating at snail's pace.

And the fastest translator was VERY BUSY IRL

>>4462033
Ignorance can be a bliss.
Yes, granting her wish would be wrong, but she could have granted it and die peacefully.

And while the doubt helps we can't know just how much.
You know, even if she reaches the conclusion that her wish is worng and shouldn't be granted, that does not have to mean that she would reach the conclusion that her life was a good one.

Granting her wish while remaining ignorant would let her grant her goal and die peacefully.
Realizing that the life was a good one and then die peacefully.
These would be what I would call "good" endings for her.
Fighting with doubts in her heart not knowing what she should seek in order to find her answer for who know how long is something I could consider much more depressing.
After the UBW good end she is no longer ignorant when it comes to her wish, and realizing that her life was a good one is just something that I have a very hard time seeing her sorting out by herself without something rather spectacular happening.
Then there is also the fact that even though she hasn't given up on her wish at that end even if she may have doubts, she has still given up on the grail after witnessing it's true nature, thus canceling her contract with gaia as she doesn't long for the grail at that end thus she has no reason to be ever be re-summoned.

>>4462192

It's been a month between the last two status updates and they've only got 3% done in that time. I practically consider F/HA dead.

>>4462170
But it also has Caren, the greatest TM slut.

>>4462290
Which is cancelled out by being the spawn of Kotomine.

>>4462244
'Ignorance is bliss' is not a satisfying ending. You are saying her disregarding her actions of the past, considering everything she did a mistake and chasing after something that may not even be achievable(change the past for fuck's sake) and which could make the world WORSE is better as an ending.
No, it is not.
It's much better to have doubts and stray away from reaching a goal that makes her actions seem pointless.
COnsidering where her search has led her 'COrrupted Grail), you are far too fucking optimistic she would find proper closure and her wish would be granted with no trouble, and far too fucking pessimistic that with this doubt she would eventually realize her wish is wrong and finally let go and rest.
It's kinda baffling.

14 years old

>>4462339
That really must be a terrible power to have.

>>4462339

Is that Caren exploding into spikes?

I always thought it was pretty hilarious that Shirou's element is "Swords".

>>4462362

>>4462376
It's not really an 'element', rather his hard-on.

>>4462373
Yes. She does that when ever she's in the presence of evil, and coincidentally enough, who is she lucky enough to have as one of the major characters, none other than All the Evils of the World.

>>4462376
Combination of Earth and Fire

>>4462373
Caren's body detects evil stuff by hurting.

>>4462387
Oh god, was that the one where shota Gil tells True Assassin he was really cool and such?

>>4462405
Ko Gil is so adorable.

>>4462405
Yup. Fate Maniac.

>>4462396
You know what else is funny?

She fucks him.

>>4462436
More like he rapes her.

>>4462327
>which could make the world WORSE is better as an ending.
Not as an ending
But possibly as a better ending for her.

besides this thread is now over 3 hours old and I really do need to sleep.
But yeah, my logic might not stretch itself all that much into the good ends possible future so it is kind of natural for it to be kind of lacking when it comes to that, as I have never really properly thought about it all before.
I still feel that the good end is a very uncertain end with lots of possible questionmarks pointing in many directions.
But at the end of that route when the story ends, at that moment things aren't really so bright for her though even though she has friends, I bet she felt hollow. But yeah something could happen after that and I know that Archer and Shirou managed to affect her deeply within the UBW route even though she never reached a definate conclusion.
So the outcome after the end might come down a bit to how optimistic or pessimistic you are as a person, the way things look at the point of the story's end isn't that good though.

>>4462397
More like an element all of its own. A unique association.

>>4462441
It's not really "rape" since she hardly resists.

>>4462376
His element might very well be "Ideal" or something like that. Only that "Ideal" best manifests itself in the form of swords.

>>4462436
fapfapfap

>>4462468
Well, Sakura didn't resist at all when Shinji raped her yet people still say the he raped her.

>>4462465
They definitely look better than 'just letting things be' is the point. She is not actually happy or content searching forever, she views it as an obligation alone to make up for what she considers a failure. If you are hopeful she could find release from THAT kind of situation, you should be just as hopeful with the UBW circumstances.

>>4462486
Swords are his fascination. Even more than having ideals, Shirou is utterly and irrevocably fascinated by swords. In fact, one can survive without the other. He's still fascinated by Saber's sword, even after throwing himself away.

>>4462486
Shirou's magical potential is based on creation, putting his mind into shape(aka, RM).
His RM ended up as SWORDS, mostly due to mentality, not a magical orientation by itself.

>>4462515
But it is an orientation. He can't do anything competently but swords (and to a lesser extent bladed weapons and armor, but that's just an extension). Nothing else is capable under his ability. It's an absolute trait of his, therefore his attribute.

>>4462511
>>4462515
As Ideals are pretty well associated with Shirou's life I thought it could be logical.
Kind of like how Lio's Origin was "Consumption" yet, for him he took the shape of different carnivorous such as Lions. Making him more "beast" like due to his origin of "Consumption"
Lio's origin was awakened by Araya making it affecting more. But even non-awakened origins have been stated to be able to affect people though to lesser extents.
But I guess this kind of logic falls appart where it is so that elements/attributes aren't the same as origin.
I thought it could be kind of the same thing but yeah, I have no basis for such a thing.

Are there Espers and Magicians in the Nasuverse?

Magician = Rin
Esper = Fujino

>>4462602
You just answered your own question?

>>4462567
Magical affiliation is different from origin. Rin is affiliated with all the elements, i.e. she can use all of them. Rin's family modus operandi is the use of gems. Shirou does swords. Sakura's is curses (was it water? I don't recall) and imaginary numbers (which is a strange concept.)

Shirou didn't show up on any tests that Rin did in trying to divine his element, which means he's not affiliated with any natural element.

>>4462629
Sakura is DARKNESS and Imaginary Numbers but was originally Water.

>>4462629
For the Tohsaka's, it's actually 'energy flow/transfer' in general, with gems being good vessels.

>>4462642
Affiliation is more toward the element you operate under, as far as I know. She's capable of using any element. Her field of expertise is the use of gemstones.

What the fuck kind of element is "Imaginary Numbers"?

Seriously, that's even worse than "Swords".

>>4462706
Something that should not exist or can be observed but has to for shit to makes sense.
If you have the fifth theoretical element{Πεμπτουσία), you need an anti to that.

>>4462699
Well, it's not the gems themselves, is the point.
She explains this on the rooftop at UBW (before the Boundary field is activated).

>>4462642
Energy flow/transfer is a specialty

>>4462706
Imaginary Numbers is an element that is highly
effective on SPiritual beings.Hence, she easily

>>4462754

Are you like, schizophrenic? You keep answering your own questions and stopping mid-sentence.

>>4462754
is capable of raping Gilgamesh and Lancer.

Poor Lancer.

Saber says that she's waiting for Shirou to tell her why her wish is foolish at the end. It's pretty heavily implied that it'll happen especially considering that given Shirou's personality, he'd go ballistic the minute he finds out what her wish was. You have to be extremely pessimistic to consider UBW Good to be a bad end for Saber.

>>4462798
shitty laptop keyboard

>>4462806
UBW Good is when Saber follows Shirou.
UBW True is when Saber finally gains confidence on her path.

I don't see how it could be considered a bad end when it's explicitly called the "good end" within the game.

Nasu obviously intended it to be a good ending.

One thing I never really understood was how Berserker manages to beat Archer within his Unlimited Blade Works reality marble. I'm not really clear how the reality marble thing works, but shouldn't Archer be essentially invincible within it since it's basically a world that he created? Otherwise what's the point, aside from access to a bunch of swords?

>>4462951
UBW Doesn't make you invincible, it just grants you high-speed unlimited ammunition.

>>4462951
The only thing UBW really does is reduce the mana needed to trace stuff and it seems like he produce them far more rapdily in UBW as well. It doesn't stop him from being stabbed or cut apart. Besides he still has to use mana to trace stuff in there and to keep it up, he probably died from using up all his mana before Beserker reached him.

All right I just replayed both UBW Good and UBW True.

In True she definitively states that she's going back to her previous life like at the end of Fate.

In UBW it's heavily implied she knows her actions were foolish but she's still waiting for Shirou to prove it to her.

Either way you look at it UBW was fine for Saber. HF on the other hand...

>>4463112
"No Shirou, you were always strong."

>>4462951
You know, I don't think Archer was using UBW when he was fighting Berserker. There would have been mention of it, plus Ilya would have been like, "Holy shit he had a reality marble!"

Instead it gave the impression that Archer killed Berserker six different times with six different weapons and methods in COMBAT. Archer was not sword spamming. From what Berserker was thinking/feeling, Archer was fighting Berserker one on one, no UBW. Archer fighting Berserker with UBW was just in the anime, which, thinking about it sort of cheapened how actually bad assed Archer was.

Archer was FIGHTING Berserker, no UBW, and managed to kill him six different times. Berserker even laments that he wasn't sane, because if he was he would have prolonged the battle and enjoyed it. He respected Archer's strength and skill and wanted to enjoy the fight.

Ilya keeping him bat shit crazy kept him from doing that though.

>>4463544

That makes a lot of sense.

>>4461903
KOTOMINE-

>>4462639
Wrong. It was Imaginary Number (darkness is an subtype of it), but the Matou changed it to Water/Flow/Energy sucking. Actually, Rin would be a better Matou Magus, but the Magi Association love the people with the five elements so yeah.

>>4464974
KIREEEEEEEIIIII

>>4465026
I was wondering when someone would do that.

leßt!

Am I the only one who is hoping that the red Saber in Fate/Extra is actually rule 63 Galahad?

>>4465094
By the grace of gods and fate, I am Nerevar reborn.

>>4465094
That would be awesome but it's probably not.

>>4465026

I hear you.What do you want ?

>>4464972
Instead the anime had to cheapen Archer's bad assness and make him use UBW. Yes, UBW is awesome and GAR and everything, but the fact that Archer didn't use UBW and killed Beserker 6 times is amazing considering he is such a "low" ranked Servant compared to the others.

Archer doesn't have the sheer speed or strength that the other Servants have, ie Lancer and Saber, but he makes up for it in tactics and actual skill. As proven by the Lancer fight, and by the Sparks Liner High dead end where Shirou uses Archer's techniques to beat Dark Saber.

>>4465410
>>4463544
That's nice and all, but it's just a theory you happen to like.
You do NOT know what happened at that fight in the VN period.

>>4465414
Just everyone ASSUMES that Archer used UBW against Berserker. I think there would have been more evidence for it, and Ilya would have been shocked that he had a Reality Marble. Going from the VN, Berserker was killed by six different methods, there was nothing him mentioning a field of swords with gears in the sky.

>>4465414

Actually, using UBW would have been pointless. Berserker had protection against any attack below rank A and all the weapons in UBW would be below that.

>>4465423
Considering that RM of field of swords at that point would be a bit too spoilery, even if she witnessed it, Nasu would not show such thing. Narration issues, if nothing else.
Six different methods could simply equate six different weapons in the end.

>>4465442
ANY traced weapon is not as good as the original technically.
Also, rank of the weapon!=rank of the resulting attack, especially with Archer (mana bombing for example)

>>4465447

That was my point. All the weapons in UBW would have been B or below so using them as a mass attack would have been a waste of mana. Instead Archer would have needed to create a weapon and then boost it to attack with. If he'd been able to do that with UBW then he would have won so it must have not been possible for him.

>>4465463
-1 rank from UBW
+1 rank from broken phantasm (overloading your weapons with mana then throwing it)

Well, I also believe that he didn't use UBW against Berserker in the VN, I would claim that it was heavily implied that he didn't, the only thing going for it would be DEEN's adaption but without it I would have never had guessed it as I can't find anything to support it in the actual novel.

But I also don't think that Archer would win simply because of UBW. Inside UBW he already has all the weapons, but if they were to be destroyed or used it still costs mana for him to reproduce them. What UBW does is making his projection easier and mroe cost effective.
So Yeah, given enough mana Archer would most likely be an insanely strong Servant, but spamming Noble Phantasms like Gil would be anything than cost effective as his magic actually costs a decent ammount of mana, even though it could be worth it on occasions.

Berserker is an insanely strong Servant and is also immune against all attacks B rank and below. As Archer's weapons are reduced one rank it would mean that the only weapons that would work would be A ranked weapons and B+ weapons used as broken phantasms.
Even with an unlimited number of blades I bet that the weapons of those ranks are still a minority within his reality marble.
So the scenario as I would see it would be Berserker being immune against the vast majority of all the weapons and yet being fully capable of defending against the remaining few that can hurt him.
Considering that, and Berserker's skills/stats I would say that he very well could take down Archer with no bullshit within UBW.

>>4465555
But yeah, I do believe Archer did it without UBW in the novel, there was nothing to imply that he used it, unless of course you go by how he would have given it his all. But UBW might not always be worth it considering certain situations and whatnot and Saber was able to actually exchange blows with Berserker as, and while Archer might not be neither as strong nor skilled as Saber, I don't believe he would be that much behind, he was able to exchange blows with both Saber and Lancer at least and if he were to use powerful and or broken phantasms I could see it possible for him to take down Berserker 6 times without UBW as well.

>>4465555
Exactly.
Most scenarios we make up almost palce Berserker as a pincushion.
Even if he dies in each route, the motherfucker is STRONG.
And he is Archer's worst possible match-up.

>>4465516
Using Broken Phantasms' special skills would consume a rather big ammount of mana, would it not?

Projection (A small ammount) -> Broken Phantasm (A rather costly ammount) -> Execution of skill (An expensive ammount)
Even if he may be able to execute all of those steps almost simultaneously not loosing in speed, it would still cost far more mana compared to the average Servant, would it not?

>>4465677
Considering the shit Archer pulls of at moments where everyone else assumes (that's it, he has no more), I'd say it is moot.

>>4465463
>>4465442
For fuck's sake. Why do people keep fucking up Godhand horribly? It nullifies anything below B rank. Not A. Not "Nullifies B and below" It nullifies UP to B rank.

>>4465841

No the attack needs to exceed rank B. That's why Nasu specifically mentioned that Lancer would need to boost Gae Bolg's attack with his rune to be able to hurt Berserker.

>>4465559
Archer was probably more technically skilled than Saber, not sure. Technique is used to make up for the difference in strength, because if you can overpower someone, you don't need to use technique.

Archer was the one that invented Three Ream, which broke Saber's superior power and defeated her instinctual ability.

>>4465860
Berserker's luck is tied with Saber's. That counts for a lot.