/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Both are shit and have big titties.

The thighs.

Proof, for Umineko theories? You must be joking.

The people who like it are either Jessica shippers, or they accept Shkanon, and coincidentally hate Shannon, so I guess it's the lesser of two evils for them.

>>4459433

so... So far... there isn't a good theory with some pseudo-proof?

>>4459375

>>4459451
There's plenty of circumstantial evidence to all the popular theories, but nothing concrete.

Hell, EP6 seemed to pretty much shove in your face Shannon = Kanon, but people just consider it a red herring at this point.

>>4459491

Bear in mind most people have not read episode 6.

>>4459491

when you talk about red herring i remember the troll in monkey island...

>>4459545

>>4459491
=> What Ryukishi said in his interviews.

Both of them are in need of a good dicking.

>>4459491
>>4459496
>>4459611
i'm just going to say this: he trolled with the parasyte solution in higurashi by passing it as Rena being crazy so it was just a brain illness
he CAN troll with the actual solution

>>4459661
Yeah, even when he defines the genre of his game, if you want.

>>4459368
They're both tsundora and they both have blonde hair.

>>4459661
Ryu isn't trolling us.

>>4459661
By the way I was talking about the fact that " I will not give a clear answer", so Shkannontrice is a hint for something else, nothing more.

>>4459631
By that logic every single person in Umineko is Beatrice, Battler included.

Everything could be solved if he just bought a fucking onahole.

>>4459734
He would need to freeze it too.

nope
Jessica is Marisa with pads, it will be revealed in the grand ending of EP8 that Beatrice doesn't exist and Marisa will steal all the gold of Ushiromiya family.

Jessica is a LESBIAN.
That is one thing that has basically been CONFIRMED.
However, her being BEATRICE?
I would SAY that SHANNON is Beatrice, which explains WHY she is WILLING to get married to GEORGE.


JESSICA is most likely an ACCOMPLICE, perhaps even the CULPRIT, but she is not BEATRICE.

>>4459772
Capitalization goes at the end of a SENTENCE.

>>4459772

why she is a lesbo?

>>4459806
capitalization is another trick like red, blue and golden truth ?

>>4459677
I'm hoping it's Shkanon.

I actually don't mind that too much, the added trice at the end makes me rage.

Alternatively, Doubletrice.

>>4459368

>>4459734
>Battler included
Indeed.

>>4459830
I'm a fan of Doubletrice. Simply because of the UNLIMITED TROLL WORKS aspect it has, and the fact that it does explain quite a bit.

>>4459846
At least it gives reason to suit and dress Beatrice, as I still do not understand why there was a wardrobe change.

>>4459830

This

>>4459838
He makes a better girl than any of the real girls.

>>4459853
Screw that noise, it also explains in a non-retarded fashion how Jessica fails to notice that Shannon and Kanon are the same person.

She's part of the illusion.

I like Doubletrice because it explains why the murders seem to be different in certain episodes, like Maria getting totally shafted on occasion and dying horribly.

I dislike the trolling aspects of it though. Not the in-game trolling.

Why does Battler need to be a girl? He's feminine enough as it is.

I seriously don't get why fangirls fangirl over him, but I guess the Battler fangirls are better than the Kanon ones.

>>4459864
Well, if Jessica just failed to notice BECAUSE, then it's shitty writing.
Ryukushi needs to explain that whole thing well...

>>4459879
Kanon is a bro, good sir.
A total bro.

>>4459867
Actually, that likely happened because the murderer(s)/culprit(s) in Episode was not the usual one(s), and in Episode 5 it was again probably someone else (and I'm not even going to touch Episode 6, what with all the theories on Erika and whether or not she actually exists).

But yeah, Episode 3 was definitely a hijack by a different culprit, with probably a NOT AS PLANNED moment for the original culprit. I say it was Kyrie who committed most of the murders in that Episode.

>>4459912
Nah, Jessica's been hiding a lot. And she's been doing it in the most effective way: by telling the truth.

>>4459864
I always wondered about the "illusion" business.

General question, everyone. Do you believe certain parts of the story "never happened"? By this I mean, say we see Battler reading a book, but Erika is in another room and is the detective. Would you believe Battler never read one?

>>4459956
>Battler
>reading

Never happened.

>>4459942
Yeah, that really is one well said sentence.
HE'S DOING THE SAME AS LAST YEAR
THE SAME AS LAST YEAR
LAST YEAR
LAST YEAR

U MAD, BATTLER?

>>4459942

It would be awesome if Battler's sin from 6 years ago was murdering Kinzo.

>>4459956
Oh, by illusion, I mean, Shannon is delusional, Kanon is delusional, and Jessica is delusional.
Shannon for thinking she's not also Kanon and Beatrice, and Jessica by thinking Kanon is not her best friend Shannon.

They are living in a happy la-la land, but it's not true in the slightest.

>>4459964
And don't forget the
> ...Which would mean, incidentally, that he'd never come out of his study. Heheheh!
I think I'm starting to like Jessica just because of her black sense of humor.

>>4459962
I dunno, piece Battler did a pretty nice job with the riddle in Episode 6. I mean, you could argue that it was meta Battler making piece Battler smarter, but it's ultimately still Battler.

>>4459984
Oh god. The trolling.
The goddamn trolling.

>>4459978
Well, it was a general question to everyone. I'm wondering we don't doubt what we see as much, we might figure something out. Everytime the detective isn't around everyone goes batshit and say everyone did something they made up on the spot. I'm saying "What if the action occured, but not like that?". I mean, if we go back to Virgilia's description on the TV, its either controlled by gremlins or by human ingenuity. There is no question that the TV was actually there or not.

3%

>>4459984
See, I could buy her knowing about Kinzo's death for awhile, it's just her helping out her mom and dad.


And then we have her set up the bullshit in episode 4.
Goddamn it, Jessica.

>>4460037
WHY DO YOU DO THIS

>>4460011
Think of it like this: the scenes COULD be done in such a way so as to deceive like that, and in at least one instance that did happen (end of Episode 2, Kinzo's study; the narrative switches from Battler's POV to a third-person POV, though you won't notice it unless you pay attention. Before the narration changes, Battler says nothing about Kinzo moving or speaking, just that he spotted something that he thought was Kinzo facing away from him; only after the narration changes does Kinzo start talking). ...Oh yes, and an even better example would be the fights before the first twilight in Episode 6. Considering nobody actually died, those fights never happened. Some of the stuff in Episode 4 would probably count as well, and the knock-and-letter scene in Episode 5 also likely counts.

However, that doesn't mean such scenes can't give hints of their own, characterization-wise, though if it's in a person's character to deceive then that doesn't help much; as well, since Beato was giving Battler hints with all the magic scenes she showed him, it's likely that some things probably did happen similarly.

>>4460087
Yeah. In fact, all fantasy scenes show everyone as heroic, to an extent.
Except for Jessica's scene against Kyrie, but she was buffed by demons.

>it's likely that some things probably did happen similarly.

Yeah, that's what i'm getting at.

>>4460214
>motivator

>>4460214

>>4459934
The multiple closed room first twilight definitely suggests that.

She's one of the brighter characters, and it's already been shown she likes a good puzzle.

My theory about episode 3 is that since Battler remembered his promise, Beatrice didn't need to conduct the killings, so she passed the baton so to speak.

Everyone die due to the explosion at the end of the second day, Beatrice know that.
That's why she doesn't care if she lives or die.
So for her the killing is just a way to open the golden land and force Battler to remember his broken promise.
Since the second condition was cleared, she didn't have to do everything herself so she lets Rosa and Kyrie take her place, probably by making a pact with both of them, telling them where the gold is only if they continue to do the staking.
They probably didn't know about the bomb though.

Afterward Kyrie and Rosa had a dispute and Kyrie accidentally killed Rosa, followed by Maria to shut her up.

>>4460587
No, I'm pretty sure Rosa solved the epitaph on her own in EP3.

This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen. Congratulations.

Kyriefags sure are delusional. Enjoy your character with little screentime that is not the culprit.

>>4460630
She is a stupid bitch, she couldn't have solved it by herself.
And it ties with the second episode, she was definitely a accomplice there.
Kyrie too, probably, though she certainly didn't think she would get killed.

Rosa's characterization showed her as someone who could do something like this.
Same for Kyrie, for Rudolf she is ready to do everything.
They are the 2 parents who really seems like they could become interested by a collaboration with Beatrice for the gold.
The other parents have shown nothing to that extent save Eva, but she really doesn't seem to be one of the culprit.

Kyrie and Rosa are also the only one with the possibility to move Shannon's body around for the first twilight of episode 3, if you believe in ShKanon that's a huge clue.

>>4459934
>NOT AS PLANNED MOMENT
Hm.....I wonder who flips a shit in that episode, and randomly accuses someone of the crime?

>>4460663
Rosa has actually been shown to be pretty smart, I wouldn't write her off as stupid.

>>4460673
She isn't nearly at the level of Kyrie or Eva though.
Solving the epitaph herself? I don't buy it.

>>4460654
Hey, I'm a moonfag, and I have to say, I like Kyrie.
She's pretty damn hot.

>>4460681
> She isn't nearly at the level of Kyrie or Eva though.
She's at least somewhere around the level of Eva. Eva agreed, don't bother her about it.

>>4460681
She does so in episode 3(She is seconds behind Eva), and is ALWAYS behind the epitagh being solved.
Take a look at episode 5, Battler is sparked by a random comment Rosa makes about the epitagh.
Hell, in two, Rosa most likely solved it as well.

>>4460672
Oh Jessica, always so quick to throw out accusations.

>>4460685
I see what you did there.

>>4460692
It's like I'm really playing Phoenix Wright!

>>4460686
Ep 5, she helped to solve the epitaph in her own way. It is not a " LULZ LOOK IT ANNAGRAM" or whatever, but still.

>>4460692
Oh wow.
Goddamn it, Moon-chan.

Japanese spin off foreshadowing ending.

>>4460725
Assuming she knew that Kanon had faked his death, or at least know that he wasn't actually dead, then yeah, Moon-chan is fucking lunar.

...Goddammit I can't believe I'm starting to like Jessica.

>>4460754
Battler ends up with doll-sized Jessica?

>>4460774
Your own movable Jessica figurine, what more could you possibly ask for?

>>4460781
Somebody whose breasts are actually life-size?

>>4460786
You want a figurine with breasts to scale?

>>4460754
Wait, that's the Umineko X crossover manga, right?
That shit's funny as hell.

Although, keep this in mind.
If Jessica does like Battler, it doesn't mean she's Beatrice. Shannon fits THAT bill, for sure.
Quite frankly, I have a bad feeling about this.

>>4460797
I, for one, love the idea of bodies hitting the floor in an all out brawl for Battler's penis.

>>4460754
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

FUCKING FUN-SIZE MOON-CHAN

>>4460797
I'd be fine with her somehow being totally innocent, I just want a Jessica end.

Shannon is garbage tier, and Kanon trap could work, but we already know Battler prefers blonde and bouncy, with a tomboyish attitude.

>>4460830
Jessica giving Battler ninja powers with her Marisa magic?

>>4460830
Man, never enough Siesta sisters

>>4460830
DAT 410

>>4460832
At this rate, Jessica is the most fiendishly clever character in the entire series, or the most innocent. There is no grey area for her at this point.

>>4460857
Why can't she be both?

>>4460867
Shannon = Hisui
Jessica = Kohaku

...Oh shit, and George is voiced by Shiki's voice actor.

>>4460857
She is completely innocent.
You guys can have your delusion about her for now if you want though.

>>4460893
And you can have your delusion that there is a person on Rokkenjima that is innocent, and without a shady past.

At this point, anyone who doesn't is highly suspicious.

I'm looking at you, Jessica and Hideyoshi.

>>4460902
That's not how Umineko works though.
Absence of proofs or clue is a good thing there, that's how that type of story works.

There is absolutely no clues about anything shady with Jessica.
Her entire character shows her to be quite a nice girl.
Even for episode 6, she didn't want to do it and was horrified when she realized what happened while being controlled, unlike George that was more than happy to kill his own fucking mother.

>>4460893
I don't think it's delusional to that a person living on the island would know that Shannon = Kanon, and that a dude has been dead for two years.

Far from it, if Jessica didn't know, then she'd be delusional.

>>4460932
> Her entire character shows her to be quite a nice girl.
She beats up her friends with brass knuckles. Yeah, real nice.

>>4460943
No, "Jessie" is the one who beats up her friends with brass knuckles. "Jessica" would never do that.

>>4460942
She didn't know, she is stupid and easily manipulated.
Show me anything that could lead me to believe otherwise, something that is in the game of course.

I could show you lots of hints that could prove that there is something really weird going on with Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa, Genji, Nanjo, Rosa and even Kyrie.

Jessica? Nothing.
Yeah not even that call in episode 4.

>>4460932
Both Umineko and Higurashi both constantly harp on the concept of sins, and all the main characters have some burden they have to carry.

And then you see Jessica, whose biggest burden is like, how she can totally look cute in from of that hawt servant Kanon~♥

>>4460943

>implying that scene wasn't anything more than stereotypical overreaction.

>>4460943
>>She beats up her friends with brass knuckles. Yeah, real nice.
That's called normal anime convention, are you autistic or something?
Learn to differentiate an obvious comedy scene with something more concrete.

>>4460948
I love the implication that anyone can get around a red text if they have a PERSONA they can use.

Kyrie did not kill Nanjo!
Her persona, Eiyrek, however, did!

>>4460961
> Yeah not even that call in episode 4.
Someone under duress does not act that calm. Hell, she even fucking giggles.

>>4460961
Yeah, that phone-call was nothing, magic exists, and Battler is better off if he accepts the witch.

>>4460969
I doubt he implied that, it would be stupid.
Jessie isn't a second personality of Jessica, it's just a mask that she put in school.

>>4460979
>>4460973
That's being completely manipulated, which work quite well with her personality.
She was shown something that lead her to lose her sanity and believe that magic really exists.
Probably something that has to do with Shannon/Kanon.

Kyire probably called for a different reason, unlike Jessica her characterization shows quite well that she isn't feeble minded.

Anyways you guys should learn not to take everything at face value.

>>4460981
Oh, no, no, don't get me wrong, I wasn't implying that Jessie is the culprit.
It's just funny how you can say KANON isn't the culprit when his other persona Beatrice did it. It's a bit of a cheap trick.

>>4460969
you mean her third persona, Asamu

>>4461002
> She was shown something that lead her to lose her sanity and believe that magic really exists.
And what makes you think that happened to her in Episode 4? Why couldn't it have happened to her at some point in the past?

>>4461003
Most mysteries are solved by "cheap tricks".
But the Jessie persona and Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice situation are completely different.

>>4461002
Being manipulated? What for?
In that phone call, Jessica has nothing to gain.
Literally, nothing to gain. She predicts her own death, and curiously enough, doesn't warn Battler, but rather, leads him right into Beato's ridiculous "trial" for him.

All while laughing and speaking in a calm voice.
The only rational explanation is that she was trolling.

>>4461002
> Anyways you guys should learn not to take everything at face value.
It's a good thing we're not taking everything at face value in the first place, then. Because if we did, we'd be claiming that Jessica is completely innocent and is stupider than Krauss.

>>4460969
Theory: someone can get around red with a persona they have, but only if that persona is shown to act as a separate person. The episode 6 red proves this. It has to be either Kanon with the persona Kinzo, Kanon with the persona of one of the victims or, as retards would have you believe, Kanon as Shannon.

>>4461018
Because Beatrice in episode 4 was completely driven by the will to make Battler remember his sin.
In episode 1-3 she was subtle, in episode 4 she went all out.
She probably wanted to be accepted by him too, what is better way to do that than to force him to believe in magic?

>>4461002
In no other episode is she shown to lose her mind, and she's fucking blinded with supposedly someone after her in EP3.

The problem here is you simply do not want her to be the culprit, so you're interpreting it with that bias.

Shit, I guess no theory works with that mindset, because it's easy to dismantle Kyrie, Shannon, and Kanon with a negative bias.

>>4461040
> Kanon with the personality of Kinzo
That isn't even necessary, as it's entirely possible that Kinzo's name really is inheritable, and Kanon was granted that name at some point in time.

Also, it's far more likely that Kanon has a Beatrice personality, all things considered.

>>4461035
There's a difference between taking everything at face value (OH JESSICA MADE THAT PHONECALL SHE IS OBVIOUSLY THE GREAT MASTERMIND) and inventing your own proofs (everything else since Jessica is never shown to be anything close a culprit in pretty much every episodes).

>>4461020
Most mysteries aren't solved by "cheap-tricks", don't dismiss my concerns out of hand.
The red text was established to be a language of truth, and to not hold Kanon responsible for a murder his body committed is inherently unfair. It's basically like giving someone an apple, telling them it is an apple, and denying that apple juice was made from that specific apple.

>>4461033
Being manipulated implies that the one that has to gain something isn't Jessica but the MANIPULATOR you know.

>>4461058
So wait, you're dismissing it because we are taking a suspicious action at face-value?
Sometimes, a spade is just a spade.

>>4461053

I thought Lambdadelta said the name Kinzo couldn't be passed down?

>>4461058
So what's your opinion of Episode 3? Kyrie wasn't portrayed as being the culprit in that Episode at all; the surface details all pointed at Eva. However, one tiny little thing turns everything on its head: namely, the fact that Eva could not have killed Nanjo. If you start working back from that, well... you should understand what I mean.

>>4461046
Try to think about their fucking characterization.

What is different between Jessica and Shannon/Kanon/Kyrie?
Jessica has always been shown to be a nice girl without any agendas.
She has pretty much always an alibi.
Nothing in her characterization show that she could be a murderer or a mastermind.

What about Shannon and Kanon?
They are shown to be nice enough, but also completely delusional.

Kyrie?
Ready to kill for Rudolf.

>>4461059
> It's basically like giving someone an apple, telling them it is an apple, and denying that apple juice was made from that specific apple.
But if you have the apple, then it obviously wasn't made into apple juice, as it would be a mass of mush if it had been.

>>4461053
It is necessary because after that she said "kanon does not exist in that room" or whatever it was. If Kanon existed there as Kinzo, then he would be getting away with it by his persona.

>>4461074
No, she said that the name Kanon can't be used by someone else.

>>4461077
There is no "tiny" little things pointing to Jessica though in any episodes, that's what I mean.

These tiny little things are present for Kyrie in episode 3.
Eva was an obvious scapegoat.

>>4461090
> If Kanon existed there as Kinzo, then he would be getting away with it by his persona.
Or he could have committed suicide from some reason. Or, if he is Beatrice (which is highly likely at this point), then the Kanon personality would have disappeared and the Beatrice personality would have taken over.

>>4461087
Now explain how in EP1 and 2, Kyrie dies first twilight, and yet those two were sweeping, clean victories for the culprit side of things?

Are you implying she has seer-like clairvoyance, and predicted exactly how everyone would react, so even in death the murders she planned would go off without a hitch? Not to mention Rudolf was slaughtered alongside her in those.

Kyrie is not the culprit.

>>4461070
No I just think that sometime you have to make correlation with everything else that happened in the game.
This scene can be explained in different ways.
You guys take the obvious way.
But given the entire characterization of Jessica, don't you think the other ways would be more realistic?

>>4461096
> There is no "tiny" little things pointing to Jessica though in any episodes, that's what I mean.
There are. It's just that they're fucking subtle.

Or maybe they aren't so subtle, and we're all just idiots.

>>4460856
Just for general knowledge, I'm coloring these emotion maps as a mini project. Should I do 45, 00, or Gaap next? I'd also like to get more of these, such as Lambda's-- so please post them

>>4461087
>but also completely delusional
No.

>>4461059
A langage of truth WHEN USED BY BEATO*
Fixed.

>>4461107
Never said anything about Kyrie being the main culprit.
Kyrie is an accomplice in episode 2 and 3.
She probably killed in episode 3.
The main culprit is always Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice though.

>>4461090
No, it isn't. He could be dead.

>>4461111
00, please.

By the way, you can get them all from http://www.deen.co.jp/works/umineko/setting/

>>4461112
They talk to a witch and believe in magic.

>>4461108
Obvious? If anything, you're the one taking the obvious route, trying to shoehorn Kyrie into everything.

The simple fact that that answer is TOO fucking obvious is what leads us to believe otherwise.

>>4461110
There is no hole there.

>>4461113
>herpderpdurrhurr

>>4461120
Well then, Battler and Maria and all the rest must be delusional as well.

>>4461111
Oh wow, nicely done.

>>4461090
Or he would just have to give up his nickname Kanon.

>>4461120
So does everyone else, according to fantasy scenes.

>>4461115
Shkanontrice is repulsive easy mode, and you should feel bad.

Kanon just being dead doesn't make sense. Erika was there, how is he supposed to commit suicide, and why? Besides, Erika was asking for locations and specifying that she did not want life and death taken into account.

>>4461141
That was earlier.

Also, poison, heart attack, whatever, the point is that he's a dead body in the closet.

>>4461132
Maria is a delusional and lonely child.
Battler only see magic in the meta-world

Shannon and Kanon were very influenced by magic in their past, they even interacted with Beatrice.
Now remember episode 4 and what magic really means.

>>4461110
This just shows that people being dead doesn't exclude them from being included in red. They still exist in that location.

>>4461153
You're missing the point there.

>>4461149
>>That was earlier.
Doesn't work like this.
Also Erika did look in the closet, just to end this stupid theory.

>>4461149
Rather convenient to have a heart attack right then, don't you think?

There is no point for Kanon to kill himself inside the closet.

Tss. Always the same answer. You don't try to think even a little.
Red is a matter of TRUST and love.
Beato promised that she will tell the truth with the red.
"Everything I will speak in red will be the truth".
Not the same as " the red can only tell the truth".
EVA never made the promise Beato does.
It's still only a possibility, but she CAN say anything she want in red. Even this " the red only tell the truth" can be a lie.

>>4461158
"The corpse of Jessica" and "Jessica's corpse" even though they are phrased in different ways, is still written the same way in the Japanese. Rather than missing the point, people are just looking too far into it, because they want Jessica to be interesting.

>>4461158
He doesn't miss anything.
Jessica's corpse was in red, what the fuck do you want more?
You should focus on other things.

>>4461166
No, the red is trust between you and Ryukishi. Saying "lol this red isn't true because X said it" or "lol this red is only true from this viewpoint" violates that trust.

>>4461181
Trut between you and bato. According to Ryukishi himself.

>>4461182
trust* Beato*, sorry

>>4461164
What do you mean "doesn't work like this". It does. Here, look at it in context. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2900814&postcount=1292
It only applies for three requests.

Furthermore, look at this set of red:
# Excluding one place, no one's body is inside the bedroom.
# No one's body is inside the bathroom.
# We have confirmed that, overlooking one place, Battler does not exist in the guest room.
# Ushiromiya Battler does not exist in the guest room. ...That's including the closet, with no exceptions whatsoever.

This clearly implies that there is a body in the closet.

>>4461185
Let's assume that is true. Beato violates that trust because she lets other people say the red which may not be true without a word of objection, and she even has Battler speak red. Or is she allowed to do that, since there's no rule that she won't break the trust? It is clear the red is a deeper link of trust between the reader and writer.

>>4461189
Have you even read episode 6? Because Kinzo's corpse was in Natsuhi's bed in episode 5, amirite?

>>4461200
What the hell are you talking about?

>>4461110
>>4461153
>>4461158
The end of Episode 2 is a bit weird, but Battler does state that he saw someone besides Kinzo in Kinzo's study, when the narration was from his POV. It's hard to tell what's being narrated from Battler's POV and what's from a third-person POV, but Kinzo's first words are explicitly being narrated from a 3rd-person POV, as the narration refers to him as "Kinzo" rather than "Grandfather".

> And, ...... there was a sofa like a reception chair in front of the study desk, .........where I could see Grandfather's back.　
>
> There was someone on the side opposite from Grandfather.
> ...It was a shadow, so I couldn't see it well....
> "...... Master. I brought Battler-sama."
>
> ............Battler, is it? I'm busy thinking now... Be silent for a while......"
> Kinzo declared that unhappily, his back still turned.

>>4461200
The truth of the future rewrites the truth of the past.
Even if that 'truth' is nothing more than mere speculation.

>>4461209
I think he means that just because the red excluded the closet, it doesn't necessarily follow that there is something in the closet.

In EP5, the red excluded everything but Kinzo existing on Natsuhi's bed, and we already know he didn't exist there either.

>>4461209
I'll take that as a no. Erika went about confirming that nobody is in everywhere except the closet in the same fashion she did with Kinzo's body in episode 5. She's trying to show that he couldn't possibly be anywhere except the closet and then corner him there.

The guest room is made up of the bathroom, the closet and the bedroom, three parts. You can't say "Kanon does not exist in the guest room" if he's in the bathroom or closet, unless you say "excluding the closet" or "excluding one place" or something like that, because it's not confirmed whether or not he is there.

And at the end of the debate she shoots through the closet but Kanon isn't there.

>>4461169
> even though they are phrased in different ways, is still written the same way in the Japanese
But it isn't. The phrasing is not only different in English, it's different in the Japanese as well.

>>4461227
(Though if the vocabulary used was referred to, then yes, that was the same.)

>>4461226
But his corpse can still be there.

Did anyone mention that in Episode 3, Rosa thought EVA-Beatrice was the Beatrice that died 19 years ago?

>>4461237
Didn't Maria also think it was "her Beatrice" at first, then realized differently?

>>4461234
No he can't. This has just been speculation that dead people don't count as existing since forever, since people want to get around "only X people on the island" and stuff like that. Erika said she didn't want to be bothered by life and death status earlier, but this was simply because Battler was being tricky about whether they were alive or dead. She was just specifying he didn't need to confirm that for her. The Jessica situation, if anything, helps this. Beato has to finish her sentence and say Jessica is there, even though she's dead.

/seacats/ has a few new solutions to EP6's closed room other than Shitkannon.

>>4461248
Other way around. She didn't recognize EVA-Beatrice, and only called her Beatrice once Evatrice introduced herself as such.

>>4461237
What? No she doesn't, she sees EVA-Beatrice as Eva, like everyone else, but Eva is being crazy and trying to say she is Beatrice. Rosa says Beatrice is already dead, but I think it was 20 years not 19. 19 years ago is that thing with Natsuhi, not the Beatrice thing.

>>4461196
Go.read.what.the.autor.said.
YOU take it as a link between the autor and you. When the red was introduced, even the autor himself said that a promise to tell only the truth is too much.
Of course it don't mean that " Red = LIE OMFG". But it is something about to be cautious about.

and she says that SHE will speak the truth. there is no problem about "letting other people" here. Playing with words. Like always in the red.
With EVA, you can assume that Beato is watching over her, but it get worse for ep 5 and 6.

Anyway, the red is CLEARLY suspicious. I don't know in which way for now, but even the difference between "red text" and "red truth" is suspicious. and the human's red truth even more, and more. It became a true mess since the beginning of chiru.

>>4461248
I don't remember, but the fact that it's 19 years ago, same number of years as Natsuhi's servant incident, is pretty significant to me.

>>4461259
>>4461259
>>4461259
>>4461259
>>4461259
wat

>>4461251
Kinzo doesn't exist should already be an established FACT.

>>4461259
No they don't, all they have is Shannon and Kanon, I saw some other shit but there was no other actual solution there besides what has been proposed here. There's even a guy who debates there and tries to get people to accept that the answer is them being the same person.

>>4461265
The number 19 is pretty significant, yeah. Zepar and Furfur bring that up in Episode 6, using it as number of paces before the duel between Shannon and Kanon. Interestingly, the age of the master of the island is also supposed to be 19.

>>4461262
Look it up, she says 19 years ago.

>>4461271
When was the last time you've been there? Five weeks ago?

>>4461277
What solution do they have then? I don't want to dive through that shit.

>>4461262
> she sees EVA-Beatrice as Eva, like everyone else, but Eva is being crazy and trying to say she is Beatrice.
Um, no, they don't recognize Evatrice at all, not as Eva or anyone else. It's only when she introduces herself as Beatrice does Maria accept her. Rosa, of course, doesn't believe it at all.

>>4461225
This raises a really important point:

The red is explicitly a tool of the witches. The witches, no matter if they're 34 or Bern aligned, have always been working against Battler.

The red truth is the enemy. It is tool of deception that only works because we know it's the truth.

Erika was able to "prove" an insane theory about Kinzo through red text because real truth (no one was in bed with Natsuhi) was concealed with an incomplete truth (no one but kinzo could have been in the bed with natsuhi)

So yeah, if you don't believe in witches the red truth is absolutely not your friend, it's there to confuse you with technicalities.

>>4461285
Assuming they're trying to disprove Shkanon, most of them will probably be Erika-not-existing arguments.

>>4461285
Don't want to dive through that shit? Enjoy Shkannon.

>>4461285
They solved the closed room after all.

>>4461289
> The witches, no matter if they're 34 or Bern aligned, have always been working against Battler.
...This statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

>>4461296
Why don't you just clearly say what they proposed. It's like you're trying to lure people there.

>>4461305
There's a theory about the placement of rooms in the guesthouse. I'm not going to explain the whole thing.

>>4461296
Kanon = Kinzo.

>>4461289
Red was made by Beato who wants Battler to reach the truth through his own power. Even though she always called it a weapon, really, it's throwing him a bone. The fact that other witches abuse it to some extent doesn't stop it from being true.

>>4461311
> There's a theory about the placement of rooms in the guesthouse.
...You'd better explain the whole thing, or at least give us a link to the specific thread. Because this sounds fucking stupid, as the rooms were quite well specified.

>>4461303
Not really wrong, but not false neither.

Lambda and 34 are both pretty much " If you don't bother me, it's ok, if you do, gtfo". that's not really my definition of allies.

So, why do some of you people want to claim that some of the red isn't true? I'm curious.

>>4461311
Bullshit.

>>4461318
Beato is SPEAKING in red when she says the truth.
If you take it literally, someone other than her can also speak in red, but have not the same "obligation" of telling the truth. It is nothing more than a rule. and the rules can be screwed when the GM is an arrogant dumbass, for example.
Not that I think that it is the case, but it is a possibility.

>>4461326
Well yeah, Bernkastel stated from the beginning that she's not Battler's ally. But you're missing the point, which is that the majority of witches in Umineko have been there to help Batter. And >>4461318 summarizes what the purpose of red text is quite succinctly.

>>4461311
>Seacats have a solution to this closed room but I'm not telling you, come to Seacats and see for yourself
Get out seacats devs.

>>4461343
> Not that I think that it is the case, but it is a possibility.
But if it IS the case, then we have to treat every red text not spoken by Beatrice as white text.

>>4461353
And what would that get you?

>>4461345
The solution is to not go to seacats.

>>4461328
Because it have not to be the case. I don't care about the rest, but always hearing that "LULZ THE RED CAN ONLY BE ABSOLUTE!!" because of an half-interpretation of what beato said is quite lame. Actually, it may be the case. Or maybe not. But the person who say the red truth is, in every case, as important as the red truth herself.

>>4461345

Buy our t-shirts and dakimakura as well!

>>4461353
Or not. "Red not neccesarily true" != "Red = false.

>>4461328
I trust it, simply because I have to, but I can understand the doubt, Ryukishi uses it in fucking stupid ways, I wasn't aware this was the truth.

Pic very related.

Checking seacats theory board... the threads are:
What is rule x y z? Complete with no grammar.
BATTLER IS 19 HOLY FUCK DID YOU GUYS KNOW
Kyrie and George are the culprits
"Red herring" means people with red hair has the family head ring ergo Eva is the family head.
Some shit about the epitaph that's too long.

Forget their theories of episode 6, from the looks of it, they don't even know episode 6 exists.

>>4461390
I guess that means Kanonshit is the only answer.

>>4461397
Shkanon is the tweest, Jessica is the answer.

I reject your reality.

Stop making shit up.
Red is red
Red is the truth
You cant lie in red.
Both Beatrice and Battler couldnt lie in red as it would be a rule violation so they gasped when tried to do it.

Red is a rule that governs all the gameboard, in this game you cant lie in red, its impossible.

That's it, stop overthinking useless shit.

>>4461344
But it still don't preent them to screw the rules when Beato is not here. Sure, the red is a very nice gift from Beato at the beginning.

Anyway, for me, I don't even care about this " Red = true", "red = false". Even if the red was ALWAYS false, it would still be interresting, because it would lead to the truth Beatrice wanted to show. That's why her disappearance in ep5 is really a pain.

>>4461390
Actually, said theory is in /teaparty/.
Good luck finding it.

>>4461406
>stop overthinking useless shit.
But then it wouldn't be an Umineko thread!

Actually, I agree.

>>4461390

Those are a page or two back in /gameboard/. Although, there's no non-ShKanon solution yet.

>>4461409
There is, Kanon = Kinzo

Okay seriously, if it ever turns out red is untrustworthy and the plot is reliant on that, I am straight up putting the book down and never touching anything Ryukishi ever does again, because that would be BULLSHIT.

>>4461408
Well that was easy.

http://imageboard4free.com/board/seacats/teaparty/topic/512215#512728

>>4461423
>>>/rs/It_won't.

>>4461423
That's why he implicitly said that it wouldnt happen in the ''trust between reader and writer'' scene.

But people are stupid anyway

>>4461423
It's not that it's untrustworthy, I think it's more than Ryukishi still doesn't quite know just what the fuck he is doing.

>>4461424
Okay, this place is just fucking cancerous.

>>4461406

>>Both Beatrice and Battler couldnt lie in red as >>it would be a rule violation so they gasped >>when tried to do it.

Yes, because it is a rule they are submitted to.
And for ep4, may I remind you that Beato was bored of this game, that she was the one who "will let" battler say things in red, and that she, as the game master, can block some red truth?

It's not overthinking. It's only only. Actually, I "trust" the red. But I keep in mind that I have to be very cautious with it, because in the end it could become a nice trap.

What's with all the people basing theories on episode 6? Are there really that many japanese speakers on this board?

>>4461450
It's only normal*, sorry

>>4461438
He's a competent writer, he had it all written from the start and many people involved in the project already knows the answer.

>>4461456
No, but there is an huge number of people who are making theory with ONLY EP6's red truth.

>>4461424

He probably meant the ones from the Great Detective Era, which are further back.

>>4461456
No, in fact the only reason this Kanon = Shannon = Beatrice = Kinzo bullshit has exploded is because people think they can understand episode 6 properly with fucktarded machine translations. Ask the nips themselves and they'd laugh at you.

>>4461463
Then can you explain to me how >>4461388 is the truth?

>>4461450
The game master can block red, it was proved by lambdadelta blocking Cornelia's red.

But this doesnt mean shit.

Red can be misleading, but red is the truth, you cant lie in red.

This is a solid rule of the gameboard.

Period.

what is the doubletrice theory?

>>4461423
It depends of your definition of untrustworthy.
The main utility of the red have always been to help Battler finding the truth.
Even if in the end, the red was a BIG lie, as long as it still lead to the "truth", there is no problem.

>>4461483
Putting it simply, that two people are Beatrice.

Typically Jessica and Shkanon.

>>4461477
Why can't it be the truth?

>>4461483
Jessica and Shannon are different beatrices.

One is the Beatrice that loves Battler and one is the ''Beatrice of the legend''.

Both of them are accomplices of each other and are working together estabilishing the witch Beatrice as the culprit, thus making both of them different ''Beatrices''.

This theory actually sound more like something that Ryuukishi would make instead of LOL SHKANONTRICE DID.

If Kanon = Kinzo it would have something like this. Because Kinzo being a title is ridiculous.

Kanon = Kinzo and Beatrice I's son and his real name is Kinzo Jr. Kanon would then be Kinzo's bastard child.

He was put in an orphanage so his birth parents would be confidential.

In episode 4 everyone recognized he existence of a child named Kinzo Jr.

Kanon's real name is Kinzo Jr. Therefore Kanon can avoid the location check in episode 6.

If Kanon is a reverse trap the names Maria and Rosa are fair game and they can avoid the location check you just have to explain why he was in a room full of corpses, but that is not particularly hard.

Another option is that Kanon left the room between the time of the location check, there was a time where Erika let Battler continue the game,and then after that she froze time and sealed the rooms. Supposedly there is a time where Kanon can escape between the location check and the sealing of the rooms and it can be done in a normal way.

>>4461477
It's true because you can't trust that what's not said in red is the truth, while what's said in red is the truth. However, truth can still be used to deceive.

...Of course, this brings up the problem of gold text...

Nowadays, /seacats/ is trolls trolling trolls, so it's pretty much a closed circle. No one will want to come in.

>>4461503
Because it says "You can't trust any words that aren't red"

That is implying that any words that are not red = lies, which is demonstrably false.

http://ib4f.com/board/seacats/theories/topic/513752
In before Get out /seacats/ devs

>>4461514
Erika proposes a theory like that except for George in episode 5. ie, Kanon's real name is actually George. That was denied, as were all similar theories.

>>4461522
>I failed English and logic
No, it's not. It means that anything not in red might or might not be truth, so it's not 100% trustworthy.

>>4461390
>"Red herring" means people with red hair has the family head ring ergo Eva is the family head.
It was about drawing parallels between Umineko and And Then There Were None. You'd be surprised at how much there was that was related between them (e.g. Beatrice is the name of a pregnant maid who fell to her death after her employer fired her, the doctor is a "red herring", the true culprit/mastermind faked their death, etc.)

>>4461524
GET OUT META BATTLERRRRR

>>4461482
The rule was that Beato will speak in red when she says the truth. Nothing more. A rule between her and Battler.
The stealing of the game changed all this, and we still don't know if it applies also to lambda, bern, and Erika or not. That's all.


>>4461477
Especially stupid because even with the red, you still ABSOLUTELY need the fantasy scene.

>>4461537

>>4461541

>>4461531
Okay, that's kind of related, if you ignore the "maid" and "pregnant" parts.

>>4461531
No, I'm pretty sure they were saying "red herring" means Eva has the family ring.

>>4461390
>>4461449
see
>>4461520

No one will understand what's going on in there unless you follow it long-term.

>>4461527
When was it? I don't remind the red truth used to deny this

>>4461538
No. the rule is ''the red is the truth''.

Damn you guys are stupid.

>>4461580
The rule is that she have the power to speak the truth - in red.

I don't see were the red is supposed to be absolute with this.

>>4461569
It was a mix of all things I believe. Maybe you should read the thread.

>>4461551
If you think about it, Ryukishi basically took that bit and split it into three. Beatrice died, a servant died, and a baby died.

...Or maybe the baby didn't die after all. Currently, we know that the master of the island is 19 years old. What if that baby survived, and their older self became the master of the island somehow?

>>4461577
" I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people." It's not like it's the best phrasing in the world, but it means that if she says "Kanon" she means who we know as Kanon and nobody else, not some person who has a Kanon title or a Kanon personality. Same goes for George, same goes for Kinzo.

>>4461577
The fact that it was stated that only five people were in that room?

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT SEACATS HAS MORE THEORIES THAN US SEACATS DOESNT EXIST UOOOOH

>>4461610
More? All I see is all the shit we have, and some even less likely ideas.

>>4461616
This. Basically, it's a roleplaying community, they don't really have theories. If they do, they're just recycled /jp/ ones.

>>4461610
A lot of /seacats/ guys post here, so we're not missing much.

>>4461624
Oh hi, Hachijou.

>>4461616
>>4461633
Shut up and watch.
http://ib4f.com/board/seacats/theories/topic/513752

>>4461633
Somewhat closer to avatarfagging, not much RP.

>>4461640
>I'll say this right now I have not read EP6 and have only been told of some of the red text and situation so I would call this theory at best a rough draft.
Stopped reading there. In retrospect, I should have stopped when I saw the avatars.

>>4461664
And circle jerking. But most of the faggotry is in /teaparty/.

>>4461667
>I don't want to accept /seacats/ theories because they're a bunch of roleplaying niggers. Is there any excuse I can use to discredit them?
>Oh, I know! I'll just call the theorist incompetent!

>>4461602
the initial trick is that Kanon's name is Kinzo, so I don't see your problem here about somebody else being Kanon.

>>4461673
/seacats/ pretty much is /teaparty. All the other boards are next to dead.

>>4461689
It's been stated elsewhere that no one else can take the name Kanon, though.

>>4461689
It's because it's "all names." It applies to everyone. Kanon can't be counted as George even if you say his name is George from the very beginning or whatnot. The same goes for Kanon being Kinzo.

>>4461686
What's with this /a/ shit? He basically said "I don't know what I'm talking about" but I'm supposed to listen him? That's what's unreasonable.

>>4461699
Yes, that's why it is supposed to be Kanon who rescue Battler, so I still don't see. Kanon is Kanon, until he possibly give up his name in this room, and turn into Joshua, or whatever you want

>>4461716
Seacat here. From the start, we've been reaching solutions through debate, along with trial and error. If there are flaws, we'll find them.

Ad there is no red truth about Kinzo in ep6, so there is no problem. 'I already stated", but Kinzo is excluded from the "all the people"

>>4461720
"The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!"

Not just that, but
"All names refer only to the actual people!"
" I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people."
This is pretty much the above red, but instead of just Kanon, it's applying to everyone.

It's important to understand the context here. Erika claims that Kanon's name is George, therefore in the red he's counted as George, therefore he could be in the room George was in. Beato denies that with this red. All names refer only to the action people. "The actual person" George is who we all know as a creepy virgin. "The actual person Kinzo" would be the dead geezer.

It's basically red that prevents people from playing around with names and titles and such. The loophole is that if "the actual person" really is the person you're trying to apply that name to. For example, Shannon is Sayo, Beatrice is Beato. Kanon is Shannon. Because they've always been that person, and the only person relating the situation with that name.

>>4461686
Holy crap, people still use Logical Fallacies Crabgirl?

>>4461728
To elaborate, currently, it's Meta-Battler vs Piece-Battler.

>>4461763
Well, Kinzo is excluded from the red truth including everybody, so.

>>4461748
Kinzo is specified as being as excluded only in that location search. The name red should still apply to him.

>>4461764
I can't help it. They're cute.

Couldn't the closed room simply have ceased to be a closed room the moment it ceased to be a closed room? I don't think Erika specified when "until the end" was.

>>4461811
It was the end of the gameboard, when the logic error stopped everything.
"The game ended when I entered the guest room, so I never unset the chain lock after I set it. Therefore, someone following me out of the room after I left doesn't work. Also, I set the chain lock at the same time I entered the room. It is impossible for someone to have left the room in the few seconds between when I entered and when I set the chain."

>>4461763
But Kinzo isn't a person, because the red truth said he doesn't exist.

>>4461811
Closed room or not, it was stated in red that Kanon entered the room, then stated that Kanon did not leave the room, and was then stated that Kanon did not exist in the room.

"[in white] Kinzo doesn't exist [in red] should already be an established FACT."

Nice red, Dlanor.

>>4461835
But what if they came in through the window?

>>4461865
Tape.
"This room is a closed room created from the inside. The window seals are intact, so escaping from the windows is impossible. Of course, there's no way to escape from the bathroom either. ...I'll say it clearly. There is no exit you can escape from other than this door. But this door's chain lock is set. You're free to unset it or reset it, but you can only do so from inside. And you're even free to go out the door, but that doesn't count as an escape unless the chain lock is set."

>>4461852
If you're going to doubt white text that's near red, then I have some bad news for you.

>>4461874
What? I thought Erika's room didn't have the windows taped shut.

>>4461877
If you're going to say a person doesn't "exist" when they're dead, I have some bad news for you. Mainly, that during that whole cornering Kinzo to Natsuhi's bed thing, it was always specified that it was a "living" Kinzo that didn't exist there, not Kinzo simply not existing there.

>>4461892
Cousins room, room next to the cousins room, guest room, all three rooms completely taped. The only loophole is that the tape on the window of the room next to the cousins room was never confirmed in red to have remained intact.

>>4461894
Yes, I am saying that a person does not exist when they're dead, unless requested or specified otherwise. That's why Kanon does not exist in the room.

Meta-Battler's theory.
http://ib4f.com/board/seacats/theories/topic/513752#513795

>>4461865
windows CHECKED
room CHECKED
closet CHECKED
under the bed CHECKED
inside the walls CHECKED
inside a rock CHECKED

CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED CHECKED

DIE THE DEATH
SETENCE IS THE DEATH
GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH

DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH

>>4461912
But I thought she only used three pieces of tape. Why couldn't they leave through the doors?

>>4461602

Bu Kanon isn't even a REAL name. Kanon is a pseudonym he uses for work. You can still refer to Kanon as Kanon, but you can also refer to his REAL NAME. You don't need other personalities for that. Just a different birth name.

>>4461922
Alright, here we go. As far as I'm concerned the bathroom is apart of the actual cousin's room and the hidden room is a whole other one by itself.

As you can see from the picture, the gold line is to represent the path Kanon took. The X in the path is so show that he stopped and locked the door. The circle would be his exit through the window. The way to solve this closed room is a little simple once you've understood the situation.

Kanon sneaks past everyone and or in front of them goes into the bathroom, he then closes the door and locks it. Moves the bathtub(for the sake of the theory it could pretty much be anything, I just thought a bathtub would fit the scene better) and opens door X with a personal key of his. He then goes inside the room, turns around, closes the door and locks it. With this because the bathroom is apart of the closed room scenario it is entirely possible to keep a closed room in the cousin's room while navigating your way through and out the window.

Any questions?
what is this i dont even

>>4461945
Ahahahah, that's the thing. Battler never said she could only use three pieces of tape. He said that she could only seal three rooms. And THAT was his mistake.

>>4461961
Real explanation:
Kanon was just taking a shit

>>4461921
The concept of a person not existing because they're dead is retarded, has never been confirmed, and is only ever used for loopholes. Like "oh, just because no more than 17 people exist on this island, doesn't mean people can't just come when others start dying"

The red supports the opposite, if anything. See Dlanor's broken red, the fact that Beato was unable to exclude Jessica, the fact that it needed to be specified that a "living" Kinzo does not exist in those locations, not simply that Kinzo does not exist.

>>4461961
> Any questions?
"How long before someone goes all DIE THE DEATH on this guy?"

>>4461961
>>4461972
At least it's not Shkanon DID bullshit.

>>4461974
>The concept of a person not existing because they're dead is retarded
It's far more sensible then "killing" personas.

August really cannot come fast enough, finally we'll know who the culprit is.

>>4461961
>>4461972
He's called the Master of small bombs for a reason. He's had some of the most utterly ridiculous theories for months.

>>4462001
>implying Bern will reveal the culprit

>>4462009
Piece-Battler guy is right, his room breaks the red.

>>4462009
>>4461986
>>4461961
You're not refuting it, though.

>>4462010
>implying the culprit will not be revealed, one way or another, just like EP7 of higurashi.

Hurry the hell up /jp/. I'm tired of waiting for one of you guys to break this. I've still got more loopholes up my sleeves after all, I can't continue unless someone challenges it.

>>4462035
>comparing Higurashi to Umineko even though the writer always says not to and says people who have read it will find it harder to understand the answer since they're blinded by higurashi
>forgetting the fact that the writer said he would only give hints to the answer, not tell it outright

>>4462031

>>4461640
Whoever came up with this apparently doesn't understand the phrase "closed room."

Red: "The cousins’ room was confirmed to be a closed room right up to the very end."

>>4461972
In truth what happened was that Kanon felt the call of the nature but george fat ass was blocking the use of the other room bathroom.

So Kanon left the room and entered the other one, accidentaly saving Battler. But in truth he never wanted that, just to have a little brown children.

So he went to the other's room bathroom and noticed that there was piss all over the toilet, he went mad and destroyed the walls and thus went to the forest while he could simply use a hole or something.

>>4462045
>implying Ryukishi tells the truth in interviews

"I think she's a good girl, she just doesn't speak carefully enough.

- Ryukishi on Erika, a good girl.

>>4462061
She is a good girl. Problem?

>>4461602

Also that's not what Erika's theory was. The theory was that Kanon's REAL name could be George not that George TOOK Kanon's name. The reason it was denied is because there is a seal on the room George is in not because of that red. If Kanon's real name (not a title) is something else other than George Kumasawa, Nanjo and the others in the neighboring rooms like Kinzo, Maria, or Rosa. You can still refer to him as Kinzo, Maria or Rosa because that's his REAL NAME and there is no seal on the window in the cousins room.

>>4462061
>implying she's not a sympathetic character

>>4462045
>implying that Ryukishi hasn't lied to our faces more than once in interviews, naivety is a charming thing
>implying that even if it is true, he'll do an about face from what Higurashi was, which is already false
>implying he will not reveal the culprit, which is a cardinal sin in a mystery themed story

>>4462061
Link for this interview please?
I'm searching it for a while.


And it could be a hint on a way that you don't see. Or many other things. Seriously, between talking about a character and there style of his game, it is not the same AT ALL.

>>4462105
You couldn't say it in red.

>>>/rs/Ryuukishi_will_die_in_a_unfortunate_accident
>>>/rs/the_truth_of_rokkenjima_will_never_be_disclosed

>>4462047

Time for an example. Get a single closed room, build a brick wall right down the middle with enough space to fit a door in, put a door into the hole and lock it up. What would that single closed room turn into?

>>4462072
No you can't. That's what the red I posted is supposed to deny. It's got nothing to do with the seal in the room George was in. I'm assuming you haven't read episode 6, because that room is the only one that may not have been sealed properly at the end. The window's seal might have been broken. Therefore Erika tried to place Kanon in that room by having him included under "George" and not under "I acknowledge that all other people are in the cousins' room."

I suppose you wouldn't be satisfied unless R07 devoted a paragraph of red to the fact that you can't mess with names and titles like that for this room. All names refer only to the actual people, so George is only the one who is really understood to be George (not some George who is just made up for a theory), Kinzo is the old man.

>>4462133
SHIT HERE WE GO AGAIN

>>4462133
For this example to actually be applicable, Kanon would need to be in a room that has the mansion and guesthouse inside it.

>>4462133
I approve of this

THIS IS DUM UR DUM DUBLE DUM

>>4462133
A hidden passage which is forbidden, Retard.

>>4462172
not cool and spicy at all

THIS THREAD IS STUPID AND SO IS UMINEKO.

>>4462179

Are you retarded? If it's not hidden, it's not a hidden passage.

New thread should be made.

>>4462172
>>4462182
>>4462144
Problem Shkanontrice supporters?

>>4462194
I think the problem is, the alternatives being given aren't really all that better, even going into asspull territory.

>>4462133
A closed room with two compartments inside. Either the original meaning of "neighboring room" included a bathroom or it didn't. You can't arbitrarily redefine what "inside" and "outside" mean later using sophistry.

In any case, <red>Knox 8.</red> <blue>I demand you produce a clue that rooms in the guesthouse share bathrooms as you have claimed.</blue>

>>4462205
Any alternative to Shkannontrice is better than Shkannontrice.

>>4462217
I propose the red is false therefore we don't have to believe in gay theories like Shkanontrice.

>>4462205
Just think of the current theory as a starting point, rather than Shkanontrice is the only solution which some people seem to like to push for so hard. Along with Ryukishi being a shitty writer because they stopped thinking of solutions.

>>4462236
The current theory isn't just a starting point. No theory has been presented that isn't a huge asspull with no evidence, and one won't be. I preferred it when the closed rooms actually had reasonable solutions. Before now, people didn't need to twist the red all sorts of ways just to find a single one.

>>4462260
I'd kill for a solid theory that didn't rely on speculation and interpretation, just hard facts.

Sadly in this story, facts are few and far between.

>>4462181

New thread
>>4462338

>>4462137

That is not how that red was stated.

>The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!!

The red you stated refers to the five people in the neighboring room. Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo. Name games with Kanon's real name still work as long as they are not referring to the "actual people" in the neighboring room.

>>4462409
Sure, if you ignore this:
"Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people."

Erika, Battler and Kanon were not in that room, yet that possibility is still excluded because of that red. Why? Because the red is not exclusive to those in that room. It applies to everyone.

All names prefer only to the actual people.

>>4462437
>prefer
Refer, that is.