/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Most of 5ch doesn't allow non-Japanese IPs to post, but there are two known exceptions:

>English
https://lavender.5ch.net/english/

>Imageboard Discussion
https://agree.5ch.net/img8/

>>44411367
Not only img8, there are other related places that allow non-Japanese IPs to post
You can find a list and context at
https://namelessrumia.heliohost.org/w/doku.php?id=2ch_embassy

>>44411408
Oh, wow, there were a lot more than I thought. The ones I found were by chance.

>>44411367
good to know, but are vpn's like Mullvad or Proton ok to post with?

>>44412582
A lot of the SFW boards on various *.5ch.net block VPN users. However, the NSFW boards that are at *.bbspink.com allow posting with a VPN.

>>44412798
I tried browsing that site a bit, it is confusing and clunky

>>44413496
I'm guessing that people who actively use the site use specialized reading software instead of the web site.

>>44413558
is there something for android?

>>44411268
>other anonymous imageboards and textboards
Do they have to be Japanese?

>>44414760
Last thread, we talked about non-Japanese boards too.

>>44406476
I found one.
https://fob.jp/bbs/

>>>/jp/gravure
https://bbs2.forestofbreast.com/white/
https://bbs2.forestofbreast.com/sakura/

>>>/jp/jav
https://bbs2.forestofbreast.com/black/

>>44414760
I'm interested in any language board too, it is a challenge to increase our polyglotness and finding other language boards is a great way to expand our cultural horizons and see different perspectives than the bland sameness that so much of the internet is here already.

As far as imageboard software goes, I think meguca is one of the best currently available.
https://github.com/214b08977/meguca

Links to many meguca-based imageboards are not allowed to be posted here.

>>44423625
cool, I was thinking to myself a cool experiment might be to pay for some server anonymously somewhere far away and install software like this on it and then set it and forget it with no moderation or anything, maybe spam some links to it on /b/ or something to start, then ignore it, and then look at it again 6 months later and see what is going on on it

would be an interesting modern day experiment into the completely unmoderated anonymous internet

>>44423625
is there an easy way to find them, like searching google for certain tags?

>>44423835

No if I remember correctly.

>>44423835
The creator of 4chan X maintains a list of imageboards.
https://github.com/ccd0/imageboards.json
There are some meguca boards on there.

>>44423891
that is awesome, thanks
I am curious why he puts the list in json format, is there some software use for a json list like this?

>>44424069
Yes.
https://imageboards.net/
http://chanverse.uwu.mx/ (maybe broken)

>>44423823
To build a community, you have to have a common interest or better yet, a common purpose.

I have a VPN with multiple residential IPs in Japan. It's fun trolling the nips who think that they can permanently ban me, only to realize I can evade the ban quite easily with the click of a button and refresh of my internet browser.

>>44424246
but don't you end up getting a whole bunch of IP's permabanned and screw it up eventually ?

>>44424246
What a waste.

>>44424069
json is a fairly standard data marshalling format.

>>44425199
yeah I was just wondering what the intended use case for the list was, I guess it makes it easier for other sites to drop the data in and share it

>>44424152
Wow, thanks for the good resource link!

>>44423823
Make sure you have good spam filter before doing anything. There's a bot that searches for imageboards using the meguca and futabally scripts and spams them with CP. It has ruined multiple budding imageboards before they could take off even with active moderation.

>>44424246
is that expensive?

>>44414449
I'm using KurobaEx on a Pixel and it works pretty good for a lot of them

>>44425199
Tangent:
I wish JSON allowed comments. That's the one feature it's missing to allow it to be a good for configuration files.

sophisticated
motionless
ironclad
brave
fair
punctual
mundane
grumpy
strictly
wearily
dress
stranger
fat
jumper
press
steal
tick
marry
undertake
join>>44416906
>>44434767
>>44414945
>>44432725
>>44424152
>>44424069
>>44423891
>>44411367
>>44411427d>>44434767
>>44432725
>>44423860
>>44436466
>>44411427
>>44411367
>>44413496
>>44414449
>>44414760v>>44424336
>>44434767
>>44423625
>>44424195
>>44412798
>>44432725
>>44413496
>>44423835
>>44424246v>>g>>x

>>44444430
>>44444444

https://2ch.sc/

>>44445233
Are any boards alive or has 5ch subsumed its traffic?

>>44413558
>>44414449
https://5ch.net/browsers.html

https://sora.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/livetbs/1693195041
post 890
why is a white girl supporting japan?

>>44447360
maybe hafu? or maybe just a weeb?

I can't seem to load 2ch while my vpn is on my phone, it gets stuck on the cloudflare check every time

>>44445233
was there some kind of weird big legal fight?

>>44456106
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Nishimura

>>44456518
interesting, but I am confused a bit by it, it says he founded 2ch, but got in a fight with the hosting provider and started a competitor instead?? that doesn't make sense unless I'm missing something

>>44456518
how does the Russian 2ch fit into the 2ch world?

is the 5ch that stole 2ch still going with the owner?

https://bbs.jp.net/mona/
https://textboard.org/

>>44457937
>https://textboard.org/
I remember setting up the emacs client last year on my previous laptop.

>>44458011
Yes, the emacs userscript is nice.

>>44443226
>KurobaEx
How do you even add 5ch to KurobaEx?

>>44460465
I'm wondering too, I don't see it on there

are there any big onion boards?

http://xiongnu.org/overtext/
What are the most active English textboards?

>>44469360
I'm wondering the same, there has to be something better than here out there

>>44469360
>>44473784
probably 4ch

>>44474084
is there a different 4chan I am not aware of?

>>44475668
https://4-ch.net/

>>44475742
seems quite dead

>>44478039
that's an English textboard for you

>>44475742
>https://4-ch.net/
thanks, are there boards on there or just one board?

>>44485281
There are many boards. Look at the frame on the left side.
https://4-ch.net/4ch.html

>>44490899
cool, that menu wasn't apparent in my first glance there

>>44483795
These are the most active boards I found
https://dis.heyuri.net/lounge/
https://ayashii.net/
https://4-ch.net/general/
http://afternoon.dynu.com/letterbox.html

>>44411367
>Most of 5ch doesn't allow non-Japanese IPs to post, but there are two known exceptions:
huh, weird. I didnt even have access to the site here in the EU without VPN for years and I can pretty much post everywhere I want in there now. Still in EU

The EU-block mightve been related to GDPR since yahoo jp is still blocking EU for that reason. They arent complying with the regulation though even though K can access

>>44493372
>huh, weird. I didnt even have access to the site here in the EU without VPN for years and I can pretty much post everywhere I want in there now. Still in EU
That's interesting.
Can you read and post here, for example:
https://nova.5ch.net/livegalileo/
https://nova.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/livegalileo/1693592788
Americans recently lost read access to this one, and we never had post access to livegalileo.

test

>>44494001
I'm in Canada and can't read that

>>44495721
are vpn's blocked too?

>>44497004
I just tested with mullvad on a Tokyo server and got in no problem

I didn't try posting though

>>44494001
nvm I guess that isnt working at all. I can post in most of the places I find

>>44444425
I think your use-case is 100% covered by YAML. But I think that YAML, in the process of trying to be a superset of JSON, has kind of denied it the push in adoption you saw from, say, XML to JSON. Joe Programmer still has to implement the parser ahead of the deadline, and JSON is just easier to implement and is left to background.

So I agree - use YAML myself when write stuff big enough for config files - but with APIs I use in life it's still JSON most of the time.

>>44505390
YAML has some baggage and ambiguities I'm not fond of.
https://github.com/cblp/yaml-sucks

>>44505688
hmm, interesting

frustrating trying to post on many of these boards, the captchas are difficult, and some sites have some kind of extra pass needed, one even had some kind of python script you could run to post with, no wonder a lot of them are slow when they really have the potential to be way busier than here if it were easier

From the previous thread:
>>44208573
>Nothing beats a tightly knit community that's focused on one task.

Small boards that want to build up a sustainable community should keep this in mind.

>>44514031
don't underestimate the community front. Many of these sites have small communities that are hard to enter into, so they don't have that much of growth potential.
And let's be honest, these websites are the past of the internet. There's no resurgence coming for textboards or imageboards, and the number of new users will continue to dwindle.

>>44411367
a lot of smaller ones also block non-Japanese IPs, for example sites like shitaraba or jpnkn where you can host your own board.

>>44520655
there should be a resurgence, it is way more relaxing and interesting to scroll through an imageboard than deal with the pain of reading something like reddit or even worse instagram

>>44524428
I do agree that there should be but I don't think there will be one. Most people simply flock to be served to the algorithms of social media and most of the rest that's too smart to be herded by it still go there in order to get the attention they desperately need.

>>44524522
I was thinking of starting an imageboard for some niche interests, I just wonder how much responsibility one has to moderate? How fast do you have to get on to delete illegal posts from spammers? Can you webmaster a board and just go on once or twice a day to moderate?

>>44525309
Anon, I know nothing about it, but I do hope you start your imageboard. I'd post on it!
For what I know, even small imageboards suffer a lot with spam, so moderation can be pretty challenging.

>>44525362
that is the only thing that scares me, I don't want to get in legal trouble because of illegal posts that spammers might put that would be on my server until I had a chance to moderate and delete them

it would be super cool to have more niche imageboards that attract intelligent posters

Has anyone tried ronin? Apparently it lets you post from any IP for a small fee

>>44527806
I'll look for it, I don't really mind the idea of paying a bit of monero crypto for a pass code to post without a captcha

>>44527806
I've tried to buy it multiple times over the years but every payment method I've ever tried fails although I haven't tried crypto >>44529594 yet, maybe I'll try that next month when I can buy some

>>44529655
>immediately try to go to the bitpay page from the ronin shop after making this post
>picrel
Yep, never going to be able to post there trapped on 4chan until I die

I tried to get into 5ch a couple of times but any board's subject I find interesting at all is ghost town.
I can't really connect with threads on popular boards like なんg. every time I tried I just found a bunch of threads that I didn't understand or had no interest in.
It's also very hard to understand wtf they are talking about, I know we also have our own 4chan lingo but the Japanese over there is very weird for a newfag like me

>>44527806
Yeah I have bought ronin on a whim but practically never used it out of fear of outing myself as gaijin

>>44529668
Bitpay is KYC'd garbage anyway.
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/169358/bitpay-is-now-forcing-every-user-to-both-register-and-identify-themselves-when-paying-with-bitcoin
I miss the days they didn't give a fuck who you were, but they've been (((infiltrated))).

>>44532251
People need to learn how to deploy this and cut the middlemen out.
https://btcpayserver.org/

>>44532281
interesting, so this works like stripe kind of except with bitcoin?

>>44534916
I guess you can think of it that way. The biggest difference is that it's self-hosted. There's (((no one))) in between you and your money.

>>44535157
yeah seems cool, do they take monero? I really hate bitcoin and the whole ponzi speculation around it, but I really like the idea of Monero as an actual private way to use something as currency without being so concerned about making a profit off of it

>>44537479
It can handle Monero too.
https://docs.btcpayserver.org/FAQ/Altcoin/#which-coins-does-btcpay-server-support

>>44520655
>And let's be honest, these websites are the past of the internet. There's no resurgence coming for textboards or imageboards, and the number of new users will continue to dwindle.
I disagree. It all depends on how the website tries to attract new users.

Finnish imageboard is at its high these days in terms of popularity (though maybe not in quality) for example. The user peak was 9 months ago with 4 million active monthly users. 4 times what it was 10 years ago.

That said ylilauta has put a lot of new shit on the board. One that was mentioned was the glorified this or not this counters. Then they implemented very mobile friendly UI. Porn and sexual material got banned as well and put behind gold accounts.

Though the site currently has problems with money, thats why they paywalled porn. Its way too popular site for what it gains from ads.

>>44541847
>Finnish imageboard

link please?

>>44543980
https://ylilauta.org/

>>44544575
thanks

>>44544575
This is cool, I honestly don't think I've ever seen Finnish language before. The software they are using is awesome too.

>>44529655
Seems like they changed the shop address to uplift.5ch.net
You can only pay with card

>>44548403
some of the lingo here is Finnish for that very reason that imageboard culture is so widespread there
Using "t." is basically saying regards in Finnish. Dont know how it started here but thats a one thing

>>44550888
I think a Finn from /int/ started it here, and it spread from there.

>>44549258
what got deleted?

>>44556703
If you used 4chan X, you'd be able to load deleted content from the archives like this.
https://www.4chan-x.net/

>>44556703
>>/jp/thread/44411268#p44529655

>>44549258
How long has that page existed
I'm so mad that I never saw it before please tell me that it was recent
Literally last post I'm ever making on 4chan and last thread I'm reading
さよなら

>>44557284
What boards are you planning to post in?
I just can't find anything that interests me enough to actually post in.
Any board I find is either completely dead or filled with inane comments

>>44544575
I can't stand that you can like and dislike things on there honestly.

>>44560911
like and dislike buttons are not good for my mental health lol

>>44560911
>>44562851
it wasnt always like that. This counter has been since like 2016 but the dislike part came in 2022. No real reason given really. Users didnt like the change but the site is too big to fail in terms of protesting against anything

I guess it makes addicts use the site more.

>>44564661
that said the likes and dislikes dont do anything and its only a visual thing

>>44564661
>>44564673
Oh yeah and if you look at the sidebar. There are levels for accounts (you have an account even if you arent logged in, that way its just cookie based) and you get xp for posting and interacting with the site.

Rewards start up with openings certain features (to limit bot usage I guess) and later on you can get free gold accounts.

All the new shit on the site is basically just for getting more money from the site. More addicts and mobile users (they dont block ads that frequently).

>>44564739
https://ylilauta.org/user/tags
they also have these that you can show off when you are posting. Some of the tags have been used to hold charities etc.

>>44564739
they must have a pretty big userbase

>>44567480
peak daily users is over 200k in a country of 5 million

>>44568550
that is incredible

is the software for the Finnish board open source?

>>44412798
how about boards that allow anons using Tor?

any of you guys ever bought a trip pass for any boards?

>>44577714
nah. Its a business after all

>>44582147
so it's not based on top of some open source software at the core then? lots of businesses do something like that.

>>44589193
no. The creator of the site has remade the site plenty of times. He did used to do that.

He thought that all the existing software is shit and basically wrote pretty much everything himself. That is at least what he said himself. No frameworks.

He also wrote anti-adblock system that the ublock guys couldnt solve. He said that it was partly because he wanted to try it out how bad the current adblockers are.

>>44580674
If you manage to get a Japanese exit node, you're probably good to go. I don't know if you can control where your exit node will be with Tor though. Anyone know?

>>44456779
Russain 2ch is just called something else
5ch was taken by Watkins the guy who took over 8ch from hotwheels

I remember there was a wiki or guide that explained the basics such as the lingo, memes and the like to 5ch newfags in english.
Anyone has the link to that?

>>44589418
funny enough. There is a current board war most likely happening with ylilauta (site admin and the guy who codes everythign doesnt own majority share of the site and will most likely get fired from his duties)

He released the old codebase of ylilauta, not the current one mind you on github just now
https://github.com/sopsy/lauta1
lf you wanna create your own board then there is that

>>44590175
The old one was nice. The current incarnation has a ton of limitations that didn't previously exist.

>>44590198
It's interesting that he admits in the README that its guts were poorly designed, but from the outside, it presented itself well.

>>44590175
Very nice. I hope someone makes an imageboard with this code soon.

How well (or poorly) is this ASCII art rendered in your browser of choice? Pic-related is how it looks for me, and it doesn't look like how it was intended. I'm wondering how the rest of you fare.

>Test URL
https://medaka.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/ana/1684051913/604-607

Interesting lore about AA from before 2ch turned into 5ch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G2U-nioZx0

>>44590175
extremely cool

>>44591875
thanks for this, love this kind of stuff

A little bit of CSS can make a big difference.
Why do they suck at webdev so much?
https://pastebin.com/RgAgrSNM

>>44589909
Nobody knew?
I tried searching for it but couldn't find it. My guess is that the original site went down, and there is no chance of finding it in archive.org without knowing the original address.
I wish I had it bookmarked. I never bookmark these things

>>44581401
I have not. I've thought about it if I were to make a posting bot, but I decided not to write one for now.

>>44608079
I mostly thought of it because of the time I waste on captcha every day and little bits of frustration around it, especially on the phone

>>44605580
at least the hiragana and kanji are all relatively the same font

>>44613506
I use a captcha solver that works most of the time.
https://git.coom%2Etech/araragi/JKCS

>>44615877
Make sure you download the latest release.
https://git.coom%2Etech/araragi/JKCS/releases/tag/0.58

>>44607700
I don't know but I found this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rFG96RHm-A
His voice is painful to listen to, but the content is probably decent.

>>44615877
>>44616273
awesome! thanks! I'll give it a try

>>44624370
Super cool, cute accent good thing for subs

what does Mulleimer mean anyways? I saw it on Kohlchan and wondered

>>44607700
any luck yet?

>>44607700
>>44635827
the only site I know with some amount of info on 5ch is nameless rumia's wiki
https://namelessrumia.heliohost.org/w/doku.php?id=start
Scroll down and you'll find the articles

>>44589909
>>44607700
>>44635827
Are you sure you aren't looking for https://services.4-ch.net/2chportal/ ?

>>44636769
Not that anon, but I had no idea that existed.

>>44589909
The Nameless Youkai wiki?

Is there any website dedicated to archiving image/text boards ?

>>44591597 #
Japanese ASCII art has a specified font and font size.

Check if the font size is set to "16". If not, change it.

Change "Standard font" to [MS PGothic]

I think you can now see ASCII art that doesn't shift.

When captured
1. The viewing environment is not suitable.
Font size is "16"
Change "Standard font" to [MS PGothic]

2. The person who made this ASCII art is bad and out of step.

Font size 16+MSP Gothic
If you do not create ASCII art in this environment, it will always be out of place. On top of that, if you're not good at it, it'll definitely go wrong lol

As far as I can see from the picture, the person who made it is a scumbag.

No two ASCII art are the same, but when a skilled person creates ASCII art, it will be displayed like this

>>44640195
it would be nice to have like a huge archive.org for imageboards but can imagine the data size would be extreme

I wonder if Google servers keep all this stuff forever?

>>44645939
don't think Google stores webpages
To be fair if the imageboard is small enough there's normally no need for an archive.

>>44423625
There was a really interesting paper written on realtime imageboards back in 2018, and it's hard to find these days. Even if you find it, it's hard to read, so I converted the doc from HTML to Markdown using pandoc, and I put it up on rentry.
https://rentry.org/realtimechan

>>44646914
>don't think Google stores webpages
Some sites are cached and some are not.
It seems 4chan is not but endchan content is in their cache.

>>44655339
yeah, I wonder though if Google stores everything in massive databases that don't get shown in their search results, so that in say 200 years everything that was posted will be findable by google on their systems somewhere

>>44655339
I mean, being cached is different from being long-term stored, no?
I don't think Google has searchable archives like >>44655839 said. Many dead imageboards must be simply completely lost. In fact it's really strange that there seems to be no archive for random imageboards, perhaps someone should start one. But if the users themselves don't care about it, there's not much that people outside can do. I know some imageboards have archives, and many of the slower one still have active content for years ago, so I get why it's not a priority, but even then it's a bit sad.

>>44655929
I ran a forum back in 2005 or so and it got over 10,000 posts through its life before I shut it down, I saved a backup of everything for some nostalgic reasons but haven't looked at it for a decade. It is a restorable backup too so I could easily bring it back to life with all the posts intact now if I wanted

I've thought about ideas of what I could do with the data, I could start a new board and use those posts to jumpstart it perhaps, etc

>>44636769
This seems to be it. Though it was more glorious in my memory.
Thanks anon

>>44641965
good info

>>44655126
>realtime
what does this mean in this context?

>>44662252
If you go to a meguca imageboard and hang out in an active thread, you can see people typing their posts in realtime. 4chan doesn't allow posting links to this site, but look at pic related and go to /tv/catalog and click on the most recent ttg thread. You'll see people posting in realtime.

>>44662668
Americans might be sleeping though. It might be better to visit when more people are awake.

https://www.1chan.net/overchan/

>>44662668
hmm, interesting, I never saw of this before

>>44666016
thanks, this is helpful

>>44662252
It's a novel use of websockets. The only other site I've seen do this is chat.soma.cx, and they were inspired by meguca for that particular feature.

>>44669631
I really wish a meguca-based board would gain more general popularity. It's managed to attract some niche communities, but it's got potential for more.

>>44679391
Do you have any good suggestion of a meguca board?
Also, what are your thoughts on >>44681605 ?
Sorry for the questions, I'm somewhat new to the whole imageboard thing and interested in exploring places other than here .

>>44686301
what was your link? it is 404 now

>>44688280
warosu.org/jp/thread/44681605

>>44688280
If you used 4chan X, you'd know.
https://www.4chan-x.net/

>>44686301
>Do you have any good suggestion of a meguca board?
Despite being a fan of the software, I haven't found a meguca board that has attracted a community that I really liked. I check in on sturdy*.help every once in a while, but that place isn't a good fit for me as it is right now.

>>44689478
cool, how long does that site archive posts? will this thread we are in now be accessible in say 6 months for example?

>>44692804
there is so much good info in this thread I want to save it for later reference somehow

>>44692804
>>44698845
don't you know about 4chan archiving? All threads on 4chan are actively archived. /jp/ is archived on warosu and one other place, but other boards may be archived in different places. These archives aren't owned by 4chan, and once a thread is there it isn't normally deleted. But most of these archives only date back to the early to mid-2010s; other archival sites existed before, but much of their content was lost. A few places archive what's left of these archives, like old.sage.moe

>>44692804
>>44698903
If you want to know who archives what, see this:
https://github.com/ccd0/4chan-x/blob/master/src/Archive/archives.json

>>44699539
thank you

>>44662668
Wow, that is super cool! Nice site too

>>44689684
Thanks. Checked it and also didn't seem to me like it's in a good state. I guess the hardest thing for me with these smaller imageboards is not feeling like you're part of the community.

>>44708205
even on huge boards that is a tough feeling to find

>>44662668
Cute girl

Why do 4chan jannies ban links to certain chans but not others? Is there a list of what's allowed and what's not?

>>44720075
Not that I'm aware of, can you say some you know are banned? That's curious. If I were to guess there must be some sort of rarely-updated list with websites that you can't link to.

Chat in English (英語で雑談)　part 225
https://lavender.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1691151602/

>>44720075
I wondered this too

Read access to livegalileo from America is back.
https://nova.5ch.net/livegalileo/

>>44729639
awesome

>>44720075
Serious contenders aren't allowed?

>>44740176
That's kinda what it seems like.
Dead ones like endchan? No problem.
Somewhat decent ones like sturdy, frens, or lain? Nope.

Bump

>>44742094
I've seen lain before but haven't seen the other two, will look for them.

>>44745950
>haven't seen the other two
Just append "chan" to the words and do a web search.
It should be near the top of the results if not the top.

>>44746132
thanks

>>44746132
It is cool to look at other boards because they each have a unique culture, I was kind of expecting clones of the 4chan experience but it wasn't like that at all

Is ChMate still the go-to app for android? Something open-source would be appreciated.

>>44760734
overall there is lots of room for developers that are looking for a project to do to make some more user friendly chan apps

is there any cool irc japanese room?

>>44764842
I was wondering about IRC too, it used to be a great place to hang out and most of the users were pretty intelligent. I would be surprised if it is still busy, I should look into it

>>44769477
>most of the users were pretty intelligent
heh
anyway, if you find any cool rooms, id be happy if you shared them here

>>44771203
I mean, much more intelligent than the current "post-smartphone" internet generation

nothing sadder than finding a great board and then scrolling through thinking "this is the coolest!" and then noticing that the last post was made like 6 months ago and that the board is pretty much dead to a snail's pace

<span class="sjis">　　　 ミ〃彡
～　Ξ　ﾟдﾟﾐ
　　　 彡ノﾉﾐ</span>

>>44781180
cute, is it a mascot?

>>44771203
What is the best way to get on irc now on a pc? I've never checked it out

http://wapchanssuskaph2zlit2wx6vs6u6rih7xnosg4cqt3uin7sl5cpf5yd.onion/

>>44789471
This is another site where the clearnet domain can't be posted here.
>>44720075
>>44740176

>>44789471
cool site, but I can't seem to post on it because the captcha won't load

>>44791392
Did you try their clearnet domain? Just add a .org to their name.

>>44791392
Tor seems to be read-only.
The captcha link was broken, and when I tried to load the broken captcha image, I got this:
http://wapchanssuskaph2zlit2wx6vs6u6rih7xnosg4cqt3uin7sl5cpf5yd.onion/captcha.js?d=Fri%20Sep%2029%202023%2019:33:13%20GMT-0700%20(Pacific%20Daylight%20Time)

>>44793919
kind of defeats the appeal of being an onion site if it disables posting doesn't it?

One thing I wish chans would do is if they're using captchas, solving one should be good for a couple of posts instead of making you solve one for every single post.

>>44804522
especially on the phone, I post way less than I would due to the waste of time trying to enter and reenter captchas

>>44779369
did you at least post on it? I found a board that last had a post past year. I posted a simple message and within a week someone posted again. Well, not replying to me, but still.

What happened to 5ch? why are some board communities moving to edge

>>44814825
What is "edge"?

Just here to say that I miss /bun/
I didn't post or visit frequently but it kept like a hundred pages of old threads going back a decade. I liked looking thru them.

>>44816335
gnfos is gone

>>44816062
another BBS

>>44817665
Link?

Does someone know how to get into talk bbs? I try to enter it and it's just a white screen with {} written on it. Apparently it's where なんG refugees running from the script all went to

>>44818771
Never mind, it was just a VPN problem

>>44817413
again? it will be back in a week as always.

>>44799546
The site gets hit with a lot of automated cp spam even with tor posting blocked, so it was probably worse beforehand

>>44820616
Someone has to come up with a way for anonymous imageboards to stop cp spam.

>>44817770
http://d1ch.cc/edge/
Doesn't matter anymore, it just dies yesterday.

>>44818771
Not many people are at talk, I think it's mostly なんでも実況(Offshore)
http://bbs.3chan.cc/offshore/

>>44822638
They have a Gitea instance.
https://git.3chan.cc/stat2/delightly-v2fork
https://git.3chan.cc/

There is a new 8 chan clone and I made a /jp/ board on it.
https://infiniteboards.top/jp/

>>44824101
cool!

>>44822174
There is a way but you're not going to like it. It's called remote attestation.

>>44820616
Up until a while ago perceptual hashing was the obvious solution but some asshat proved you can reverse certain implementations with AI + GANS so now you're effectively hosting that shit if you use it unless you really know what you're doing and can somehow prevent the reversing.
The other option involves giving your personal information to Cloudflare and being on call for the US police even if you're not hosted in the US and just want to get rid of all the shit while following your country's laws.
A third one I can think of is requiring JS to auth posters and keeping anonymized profiling data to permaban abusive networks like residential vpns. Totally doable but kind of a pain due to legislation. (but fraud prevention is one of the major exceptions to GDPR and similar directives)

>>44816335
Do you have the updated version of that pic?

Is 5ch uplift worth it or is the site still mostly busted outside of japan?

>>44827939
Is the board you want to see even active? There's been a mass exodus due to ddos and script attacks.

>>44829038
I hate how the ddos crap and scraping has killed small servers and the power is firmly in the huge corps

>>44829038
So what japanese boards are active now?

>>44829248
Futaba and Bakusai, I guess.
The abovementioned offshore is probably one of the biggest refugee camps, but it's tiny compared to the userbase that was on 5chan.

>>44825993
it sucks that the government can be so overreaching on this kind of thing and basically kills things for the little guy that wants to run a site and keeps the power in the huge corporations

>>44829369
Well strictly speaking there's nothing stopping someone from doing it. It's just a ton of work that most people aren't going to put in to categorize risky users and block suspect automated behaviors while still keeping the data secure and anonymous enough to be legally compliant.
The issues with perceptual hashing is also a bit fuzzy legally since it's just a proof of concept to reverse it through AI, all you're storing is a hash and Microsoft PhotoDNA, Reddit among others still use it. The bigger issue is really that you're going to have to build-up a database of hashes because the existing ones only serve large legal entities to prevent their DB being leaked to potential attackers.
For most sites just blocking regular image hashes from being uploaded, blocking known TOR and vpns and having enough jannies to clean it up would probably be enough. Failing that geoblocking the countries where the botfarms and shady clickfarm-type work tend to be located (third-world) will probably work.
>>44829317
That sucks. Has 5ch been under attack long?

>>44829978
it still sucks, site owners shouldn't be held responsible for what random users upload, as long as reasonable timeframes to janny/moderate are followed. a one man show should be able to visit his site once a day for example and clean up any illegal material

I ran my own forum like 15 years ago and I was the only moderator and only admin, sometimes I was on twice a day to moderate, sometimes once every few days.... that is reasonable

the way it is now I couldn't do this without getting in shit from the government, which sucks, so now I just don't bother to start a new site, which sucks

>>44830290
>a one man show should be able to visit his site once a day for example and clean up any illegal material
That's more or less the law I think. I'm not actually certain how long the window is by the law. They were talking about 24 hours but it doesn't seem to have gone through in the US and the EU mostly seem to be targeting the large social media networks with more than 2 mil users.
Looking over the Cloudflare rules now it seems they don't require your personal info and leave the law questions for you to deal with but you do need to apply for access to the database from the agency responsible for it and they do get reports sent when you match an image. Not a lawyer and haven't read their terms either so there might be some legal req involved there.
Of course you could just disallow image posting altogether and leave it for offsite hosts to deal with.

>>44830391
but image posting is what makes a forum/imageboard fun and worthwhile

>>44830566
Most image boards seem to manage somehow and those tend to have a larger threat area than regular forums. Some form of blocking & banning automation against the worst retards and blocking bad actors like TOR-posters is probably enough until you're 4chan-sized.

Is the download board the only place to discuss japanese piracy? It's pretty dead

Here's a relatively new imageboard.
https://hikari3.ch/

>>44832461
looks good, good luck with it!

>>44832461
awesome

>>44832461
Looks cozy.

>>44829248
Open2ch
おーぷん2chのおんJ
https://hayabusa.open2ch.net/livejupiter/

What's up with 5ch? I can't open any threads, I either get a CF error or 403.

>>44835090
Same but the DAT files for specific threads seem to work and can be read. Probably the same for inaccessible boards but I haven't looked into it.

>>44835373
Thanks for the confirmation. Dat files seem to be available on my end too. It probably shit itself like usual and we have to wait for the jannies to clean it up.

>Open2ch ban
>never even been to the site
Can foreign IPs not read the site at all?
Usually it's just no posting.

>>44836844
I can't access it either, never could. I haven't checked with a jp vpn

>>44837035
They ban regular free VPNs that much I know.
Guess you have to have a residential one.

>>44837830
Where do you get a Japanese residential VPN ?

>>44837906
I haven't used any myself so I can't really recommend one. I've seen people on /g/ rec IPRoyal but dunno if it's any good. They all seem to charge by useage though so be aware.

>>44837830
any luck with some of the bigger, paid vpn's? like proton?

>>44837830
>>44839876
I can access it on mullvad vpn

>>44837906
Last time I checked VPNGate had residential nodes, make sure to use fresh ones

>>44840000
Confirmed. Some of these work and some are banned.

>>44836844
>>44837035
>>44837830
I'm able to access it using a Japanese IP residential VPN. This xenophobia is completely uncalled for.

>>44840861
It's blocked in response to DDOS attempts from non-JP IPs.
https://twitter.com/satorunet/status/1678568915751043072

>>44841038
why do non-Japanese IPs do this? Is it all the koryo-china menace or are there other interested parties?

>>44841194
Anyone doing it would be buying time on botnets, residential proxies and/or abusing free proxies/VPNs/TOR or paying someone to do it from poorer regions in China, Malaysia, Indonesia and so on.
They could probably get away with just banning those countries but to the average JP why not just geoblock everyone else and not have to worry about it, 99% of your userbase is japanese anyway.

>>44841038
Or so they say. Think about the motives for a second. What would be the point for foreigners allegedly DDoSing open2ch?

>>44841236
It doesn't have to be foreigners. Anyone japanese doing it would also be using foreign IPs.
4chan used to block China back in the day for similar reasons.

Surprised they just don't sign up for Cloudflare and put it in front of their site t b h. This is the sort of thing CDNs like that exist for.
Admittedly the JPs might not like the idea of involving a foreign company.

>>44841268
lmao just realized they're prob blacklisted since Watkins got kicked off 8ch.
Well they could just ban non-JP ips or pay for DDOS protection from arbor/akamai/etc.

its Japanese forum so they just do the easy thing and ban foreign IPs

Its nothing to be offended by. Its not like they WANT foreigners to post there, even though they wouldnt disallow it

>>44841372
>>44841268
I don't know open2ch, but 5ch uses cloudflare, I don't see a reason why they couldn't use it.

https://itest.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/livegalileo/1696462373/

Kek

Open2ch uses cloudflare

>>44841803
I'm not familiar with the culture of livegalileo, is /bant/ a good fit for them?
honestly that place can be a shithole sometimes

Looks like more of 5ch is back today. Opening threads without manually opening the .DATs work now.
Still multiple timeouts and non-loading of several boards though.

I want to make my own board, any idea how much it would cost per month to host on AWS?

>>44843127
Does it have to be AWS?
https://lowendbox.com/

>>44843143
I kind of want a company that is in the cloud and has good anti-ddos protection, I was thinking AWS is the biggest. I'll check your link though

>>44843841
No idea about AWS but you can normally get VPS servers from like 3 dollars and up and I think you can use Cloudflare for free. But you can run a bbs on a simple shared php/mysql hosting site, which may be even cheaper.

>>44844470
And by cheaper I mean free.

>>44841803
>>>/bant/18839970

>>44447937
There¡s nothing half-japanese about her physical traits- Her eyes may be hooded but she's completely caucasian.

>>44541847
Well, thanks for jinxing it. Ylilauta has announced that it is turning into an almost entirely paid subscription website.

>>44846618
Man, that sucks. I hope someone creates an alternative using that code that was made open source.

>>44846618
How so? I'm not very familiar with it, but I know it already has a lot of ads that can't be blocked (I'd also be interested to know how this is done, for research purposes).

Looks like 5ch is almost entirely up?
I only had two boards fail on me.

>>44847592
can you recommend a general there? I'm a bit of a newb to be honest

>>44846697
>>44847109
the guy probably is just reading newspapers (the changes on ylilauta become big news here since ylilauta is the size of reddit here).

https://www.iltalehti.fi/digiuutiset/a/f5da678d-1562-4d84-9282-1915196b71eb
ill post deepl paste of the article
>>44847109
the anti-adblock thing has been removed by the site admin (because the owners forced him to put targeted ads and other spy shit). He pretty much did some simple things, some people started making separate scripts to block his antiadblock.

In the end only ublock was really screwed over and it was still possible to block ads with separate usermade adblocks made specifically for the site.

>>44850028
the article in English

A super-popular Finnish website almost entirely paid for - Users outraged: "Thank you and goodbye"
Ylilauta, which is particularly popular with young users, is hiding more and more content behind a paywall.

Ylilauta, a popular discussion platform, is trying to attract more paid users with a new approach.

With the reform, almost all threads are locked behind a gold account.

Ylilauta reaches up to almost 2.5 million users per month. According to the website, a large proportion of them are Finnish-speaking. Some services are already familiar under the gold membership, which costs €6.9 a month.

Many users have asked the forum where the active and fresh threads have disappeared to. Indeed, many discussions have been clouded, and without paying a fee you cannot view the content. Users have wondered whether this is a passing phase or a purposeful money-making scheme.

The administrator, known as Sopsy, says in the thread that the situation has been considered and will not change.

- This time it's here to stay, and I can't help it. I'll follow orders to raise immediate income by any means necessary, and I don't have the clout in the company to fight back.

Many users have also speculated about a change of ownership of the forum and its closure altogether.

With the new policy, the old discussion threads will only be visible to paid users. The expiry date will be 24 hours at the strictest.


From what we have read, users are unhappy with the changes. Many have even said they will stop using the service.

- Thank you and goodbye, writes one user.

- The active thread is over 24 hours old and blurred, writes another.

Many are also worried about the situation if their membership is paid for well into the future. However, according to the administrators' replies, the service is not likely to be closed down, even if changes are made to the content and payment structure.

- As stated in the terms of use, gold accounts will only be lost if the site is closed permanently. And that is certainly not going to happen. So don't worry, nothing will happen and it won't be wasted to buy them. And at least I get a third of them for my own beer fund after taxes and expenses, which is just under a couple of euros per cult, writes Sopsy.

Ylilauta is a so-called photo forum, where the discussion takes place in threads posted in different subsections.

A user writing feedback on the new policy sums up his thoughts.

- Not really, a good reason to close this site and go do something more sensible.

The main board is a platform for anonymous discussion. The site averages about 2.5 million page views per day and 100 000-110 000 active users per day. The site receives tens of thousands of messages every day.

The site is full of discussion from all sides. According to the Ministry of Justice, Ylilauta is the most important hate speech platform in Finland, accounting for 96% of all hate speech messages in Finland.

The discussions contain a lot of excessive trolling and inappropriate content. For example, several threads contain racist and chauvinistic comments.

ylilauta used to be the admin and owner of old Finnish imageboard calles northpole.

Nowadays it has worked as a test board for ylilauta software. Right now he is unofficially having the northpole.fi act as a the true imageboard since he is disgusted with shit the owners force him to do. He is essentially just a worker at ylilauta at this point.

Northpole is ylilauta code but without upvotes or downvotes or much of the other bloat in ylilauta. He calls it a minimalistic board

https://northpole.fi/b/

>>44850077
Sopsy (ylilauta admin) used to be the admin and owner of old Finnish imageboard called northpole*

>>44850028
Thanks for the info, it's interesting.
I looked up the anti adblock stuff, and while I don't know how it works, I read about it being removed. I didn't have the Finnish filters enabled anyway, but if I enable them, the ads disappear.
>>44850054
So Sopsy is basically responsible for managing the site on behalf of the company that actually owns it, but the owners make the big decisions?
So from what I understand, there are 2 big changes:
>threads which are over 24h old are gold only even if it's still active
>the kakolog is gold only
This is a pretty risky move, is there any chance of this working out? Do people get gold accounts? The first one could be circumvented but it encourages low-quality thread, and hiroyuki already tried the second one. External archives could become a thing, though I suspect that may be illegal in the EU (like everything else, though Finland seems more reasonable than other EU countries).

>>44850211
Sopsy apparently sold his majority share of lautamedia (=ylilauta) for 1000€. He regrets it now but also says the the investors brought profitable ads to the site. Apparently the site owners are all in the Malta online gamling business (Ylilauta has HQ in Malta, the online casino mecca of the EU)
the changes are
>targeted ads, userdata is used in adversating like in the big tech
>24h old threads are blurred if you dont have gold accounts
some other changed before this that also caused anger
>Sopsy, after strict no pornography rule on ylilauta made an porn board for gold accounts
>user XP system. You get less captcha, free gold accounts etc. the more you level by posting
the porn board thing did work out. People for some reason pay for porn.
As of now. Sopsy writes that gold accounts have gone up since the intrusive ads and the blurred threads, but he also insists that this on long term cannot hold and the shareholders will have to face it.
Ylilauta is strictly against any other site using the sites data. I doubt anyone would bother with it.

>>44850293
and I note. There is no archives in ylilauta. Ylilauta doesnt have the same style like 4chan has and threads dont get deleted after ten pages. They stay there for longer, sometimes it was even for years.

Owners of the site want Sopsy to make changes that will increase profit (the site is already very profitable after some changes but they ask for more). So Sopsy has slowly but steadily decreased the time threads stay up before they get locked and later deleted.

Now they changed it to 24 hours which is very controversial.

>>44850327
24 hours if you havent bought gold account that is, so much of the content on the site is behind paywall. This is even worse for smaller less active boards on the site.

>>44850211
https://northpole.fi/b/245554
here is a thread where Sopsy talks about stuff. I guess everyone here can just mass translate here.
Dont know how interesting this is, but he drops some info on stuff and talks with people

>>44850077
>https://northpole.fi/b/
Nice. I like this much better than what ylilauta has become.

>>>/vg/449118276
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1294
Lunar Rabbit Edition

Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.

COPY ERROR MESSAGES WITH CTRL+C, PASTE THEM WITH CTRL+V INTO GOOGLE TRANSLATE. JUST CLICK THE WINDOW AND PRESS CTRL + C, IT WORKS.

>Downloads:
/aa2g/ Pre-Installed Game, AA2Mini: https://tsukiyo.me/AAA/AA2MiniPPX.xml
AAUnlimited updates: https://github.com/aa2g/AA2Unlimited/releases

>Information:
AA2Mini Install Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vS8Ap6CrmSNXRsKG9jsIMqHYuHM3Cfs5qE5nX6iIgfzLlcWnmiwzmOrp27ytEMX03lFNRR7U5UXJalA/pub
General FAQ:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200216045726/https://pastebin.com/bhrA6iGx
AAU Guide and Resources (Modules, Tans, Props, Poses, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17qb1X0oOdMKU4OIDp8AfFdLtl5y_4jeOOQfPQ2F-PKQ/edit#gid=0

>Character Cards [Database], now with a list of every NonOC in the megas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1niC6g-Xd2a2yaY98NBFdAXnURi4ly2-lKty69rkQbJ0/edit#gid=2085826690
https://db.bepis.moe/aa2/

>Mods & More:
Mods for AAU/AA2Mini (ppx format, the mediafire has everything):
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vwrmdohus4vhh/Mods
/aa2g/ Modding Reference Guide (Slot lists for Hair/Clothes/Faces, List Guides, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwmoVpKuSuF0PtEPLEB17eK_dexPaKU106ShZEpBLhg/edit#gid=1751233129
Booru: https://aau.booru.org

>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
Try the dgVoodoo option in the new win10fix settings.
Alternative: Update your AAU and see if it happens again. If so, disable win10fix, enable wined3d and software vertex processing.
>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
winkey+R -> ms-settings:developers -> Terminal=Windows Console Host

Previous Thread:
>>>/vg/447875110

>>44850552
the site code is still owned by ylilauta and it acts on paper as a lite version of ylilauta.
So this wont really work as a replacement for the site. Sopsys plan looks to be just to prove a point to the shareholders.

>>44850293
So that's why they have so many gambling ads.
>>targeted ads, userdata is used in adversating like in the big tech
This happens on basically all websites in 2k23.
Separating porn boards is a good idea, it solves a lot of problems and if you can charge extra for it, it's even smarter.
But requiring subscriptions in such an intrusive manner is not something I believe would work. SNS sites have raised this idea of requiring payment for using the site properly since Elon Musk started talking about it, but I honestly don't think it would work in 2k23.
>>44850327
>There is no archives in ylilauta. Ylilauta doesnt have the same style like 4chan has and threads dont get deleted after ten pages. They stay there for longer, sometimes it was even for years.
I see, I thought it had a separate part like on 5ch that preserves old threads. But then when threads do get locked and later deleted, is there no way to browse them anymore? That would be a shame. Or is it more like Reddit then, where all threads just stay there even when they are locked?
I checked out the thread, it seems he can't actually create a competitor site, but it's still very based of him to try to make improvement

>>44850620
ylilauta previously marketed the site as a privacy oriented site. Sopsy got rid of google and made his own ad services and everything. User data was not sold or used by third parties. Since the changes, the slogans about data safety have been removed.
I am not sure how the algorithm works, but thread either gets locked after 1000 posts or after it has been inactive for sometime. Then it gets deleted sometime afterwards, it depends on the activity of the board so smaller boards have very old threads up still. At that point its just about the amount of data the site wants to hold.
As said, ylilauta doesnt have archive per se. Threads stay up for sometime, way longer than in 4chan but then get deleted.
There is one exception though, if the threads gets to "eeppinen" (land where epic threads go), meaning admins chose to archive the thread becuase it was memorable or something. Here
https://ylilauta.org/arkisto/

>>44850686
https://ylilauta.org/arkisto/130177929
example thread. There are some threads all the way from 2012

>>44850686
very interesting, thanks for the explanation

>>44849387
I'm new too so not really.

日本人ねらーだけど質問ある？
今のところなんG(livegalileo)となんJはopen2chのおんS(livesaturn)に集まってる
なんOにもまだ残ってるけどなんOはDDoSに弱いからすぐにいなくなると思う

It's time to let go. Twitter killed 5ch.

I tend to prefer 2ch for current show memes and check 5ch for long-running threads and tips on cool games like Javardry, Ruina, Freem competitions and mentions of real life stuff.

>>44853531
What's NanG and NanJ about? Are they live random boards? Nan short for Nandemo?

>>44850686
>Ylilauta is a privacy-oriented anonymous discussion board where you are free to discuss almost anything.
>Sending messages requires neither registration or a username. You are still completely in control of your data even after registering and can easily delete everything permanently. Ylilauta does not collect any unnecessary information about you.
It looks like it still says it's privacy-oriented. Now I understand why this upsets people. But since it looks like every 2nd person in Finland uses the site, it may have reached a critical mass where they are free to do whatever they want.
>https://ylilauta.org/arkisto/
ebin:DD:DDD

>>44855144
なんGなんでも実況ガリレオ　5chの/livegalileo/
なんJなんでも実況ジュピター　5chの/livejupiter/
おんJopen2chのなんでも実況ジュピター　/livejupiter/

>>44856307
yeah I doubt there is anything that is gonna replace it. Its essentially a monopoly, no one really wants to compete with it since imageboards of that size get pretty cancerous for anyone that appreciate imageboard culture

>>44853531
what's the culture of the boards? All I really know is nanJ-fags talk in a really weird deep kansai accent and are obsessed with baseball and that there are anime watchalong threads on nanG

>>44860184
なんJ/なんGは元は野球の板として始まったけど、今はどうな話題についても話せる巨大な板だ
5chの人口の半分以上が集中している
関西弁で話す以外だとには野球に由来する語録がよく使われることがあるとかかな

>>44860568
fascinating, thanks for the majiresu. Also feels nice that I can fully understand japanese posts now.
When the ddosing is over, it's likely everyone will come back to 5ch right?

>livegalileo is just full of gore spam
huh?

>>44860594
5chは対応の杜撰さから支持を失っている
5chに人々が戻ってくるかわからない
移住先として有力なのは
Open2chのおんJ
なんでも実況オフショア(なんO)
Talk.Jp

この辺かな

I won't be able to be on tomorrow, I hope someone makes new when it gets to the bottom

What should the pic for the next OP be?

>>44867298
I think we should keep the OP subject and text as it is, to avoid being deleted for off-topic or something. No idea about the pic tho

>>44867298
good question, this OP pic was awesome

apparently the northpole.fi board will be closed because the owners of ylilauta sees it as competition and therefore they force the admin to close it
business is truly cruel

>>44868456
Who are the owners of ylilauta?

>>44869334
some online casino businessmen. Lauta Media Ltd is the company, based in Malta. I could post the info ITT but mods in this site are retarded and might ban for doxx even if its public info. Googling the company should work.

Sopsy (the site admin) owns minority share of the company. Sold his shares 5 years ago.

>>44869401
right now Sopsy wants to quit as the admin of ylilauta, but he is forced to be one until 2025 (or face fines). He sounds defeated and hopes to make it there in good health or that the situation somehow changes

>>44869401
>some online casino businessmen
He's acting like a sociopath.

>>44868456
Oh man, that just happened.
F

>>44869550
>>44868456
Damn, this is sad

apparently northpole.fi had to go down, because Sopsy had a hobby of collecting domain names of old Finnish imageboards, northpole was his site. He had pretty much all the historic board domain names in his name, all the known ones.

So what he did was that he had the domain names in the same server hosting site account (or however this works) as ylilauta and therefore the owners of Lauta Media are now saying to him that he donated all the domains to the company.

Well played. The gambling site people are truly ruthless

>>44869568
Lauta Media now claims to own all of these domains and Sopsy either has to give up or go to court. He doesnt seem to want to go to court

>>44869568
>>44869584
>he had the domain names in the same server hosting site account (or however this works) as ylilauta
Did he not transfer these to himself on another account when he sold ylilauta? Or was he even the guy who made the site in the first place?

>>44869600
he created northpole himself and was one of the creators of ylilauta and the guy who owned it before selling it. When the company was created he claims he didnt bother to make a separate account and just moved everything to the same account. Out of lazyness. Something like that.

there was only one account all the time it seems.

>>44869440
He's not the victim here, fucking kike faggot.

>>44869664
he is a victim of his own foolishness

>>44869632
Yeah that's what I thought. It is very frustrating. He can say goodbye to these nice domains.

>>44869584
>Lauta Media now claims to own all of these domains
This feels like theft.

>>44870061
theft? Morally yes, but in the eyes of law its not so simple. He had his personal shit on the same shit as the company shit

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>>44870108
>>44870108
>>44870108