/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Becoming a youkai almost always entails losing ones humanity, though Yukari isn't absolutely bad.
There's a small detail that NO ONE ever mentions, which is that Renko tells Maribel that she has "creepy eyes", which I think is related to the eyes in the gaps, aside from her ability to actually see boundaries, of course.

Because they are unrelated characters.

>>44333044
You say Merry is a good girl as though she wasn't advocating for complete subjectivism during her time in the Hifuu Club. Whatever set her on the path to becoming a youkai (presumably something involving the Lunarians and Renko, given her grudge against the former and the absence of the latter) just pushed her past the moral event horizon she was already dangerously close to.

>>44333241
>as though she wasn't advocating for complete subjectivism
Why is this a bad thing?

>>44333260
>Why is this a bad thing?
I have yet to meet anyone who advocates for subjectivism that isn't subhuman filth who only uses that belief as a way to justify their own toxic behavior. Your mileage may vary.

>>44333260
Without a standard system of morals any act may be justified

>>44333347
forgot to contribute pic

>>44333241
I'd probably go all in on "the only truth is there is no truth beyond myself" if I woke up one day in Fairyland like she did. But it's also not really that hardline of a belief for her as we see both her and Yukari doing things that're against the mindset, and half the reason it was even brought up was to give ZUN something to debate on through the words of Renko.

>>44333385
>I'd probably go all in on "the only truth is there is no truth beyond myself" if I woke up one day in Fairyland like she did.
She was doing that WELL before she ever visited Gensokyo, judging by the fact that it's literally her major. Whether or not it's something for ZUN to debate on aside, Yukari is still a huge bitch and arguably one of the most evil characters in the setting.

>>44333358
I was so mad when she beat the three fairies of ligth just because, and then people complain about fucking sex fox.

>>44333408
>she beat the three fairies of ligth just because
That's good though

>>44333417
Fair point, I was just more pissed it was Yukari being the cunt that she is.

>>44333044
what if Zun never intended Mary to be Yukari but changed it midway?

>>44333660
The Hearn/Yakumo connection is too much to overlook. I could see it maybe being changed the other way around, though.

>>44333660
They're definitely the same person. Read all the Maribel/Renko albums. There's a gigantic amount of details that people never talk about and aren't on the wiki. I'm more curious about what happened to Renko honestly.

>>44333347
Which is of course how nature works...

>>44333992
I remenber a thread where some anons discussed a possible connection between Renko and Reimu but I dont remenber the details.

>>44333397
While I agree with the former I don't really agree with the latter. Despite all her scheming Yukari is basically the only hag who actually has Gensokyo's best interests at heart. She's also one of the few antagonists who never actually tried to upset the balance of Gensokyo itself. I'd say "though the stuff with the Lunar war happened" but I actually can't remember the specific details all too well since it's been a decade, though I remember Remi being one of the inciters of that incident too? I'll have to re-read it and the Three Fairys manga since they're the two I don't actually remember at all.
>>44333660
Zero chance of that, the connection couldn't be more explicit if it tried.

>>44333408
She beat them to test if they were weaklings for the border tree as it could upset the balance of Gensokyo for someone powerful to live there

>>44333992
>>44334005
Renko is the first Hakurei
Source: my ass

>>44333660
ZUN definitely intends for Maribel to be past Yukari, he's outright namedropped Lafcadio Hearn back in 2005, mere one year and a month after Maribel's debut

>>44334186
Yukari basically decides what the balance of Gensokyo should be and subsequently enforces it, or makes Reimu do it.
Of course she's not going to upset the balance when the status quo is already in her favor.

>>44334453
It feels like you're forgetting she's a large chunk if not the entire damn reason of why Gensokyo even exists, she kind of has the duty to keep the original intent intact. Which she has. If anything, she's slacking on her duties because she tends to turn a blind eye to barrier-hoppers so long as they aren't completely normal foo-- I mean, humans. The barriers also got plenty of holes in it that she knows about, considering they're explicitly how she met Rinnosuke in the first place.

If you're going to call her manipulative or lazy then on both accounts they're correct, but some kind of self-proclaimed ruler or shadowboss? Nothing in any material suggests that, unless you want to argue that her sometimes lending a hand to fixing the very incidents that are disrupting Gensokyo's balance in the first place counts as that. In which case a better case would be made for Reimu given how she's the undisputed enforcer of Gensokyo's laws and rules.

it's because Yukari became much nicer after she lost her memory and became Merry

>>44334005
Honestly Reimu reminds me more of Yukari, they lazy, barrier maidens, bitchy, and both have nearly identical political opinions.
A possible link between Renko and Reimu is the R part of their name, and if Renko has fantasy syndrone like her grandma Sumireko that could be a connection to Reimu who has something similar with her innate ability that Marisa mentions in her grimoire.
There's also the Renko = Chang'e theory.

>>44334754
Except Gensokyo isn't a good thing, even for the non-humans there. At the end of the day, it's a stopgap measure at best, or it ought to be, except no attempt to make a more permanent solution has ever, or given ZUN's style of writing, will ever be made. And yes, it should go without saying that killing people is wrong even if it's to feed the youkai that somehow haven't changed to subsist on belief.

Furthermore, with the increasing number of non-humans immigrating to Gensokyo, the competition for presence in the minds of humans will increase in turn, and already that would appear to be unsustainable given the dialogue between her and Kasen. I've stated before and will restate that the nature of Magician Youkai means that there, by all means, should be a way for non-humans to shift to being anchored to the physical layer instead of the mental layer, but again, no permanent solution like that will ever be looked into because ZUN doesn't make the games to tell a story.

As for the creation of Gensokyo, that's more on the Ryuujin than any individual one of the Sages, who I suspect were more likely picked because their Abilities allow them to maintain the GHB. And given the fact that the Ryuujin resides in the Lunar Capital, I doubt it has Gensokyo's best interests at heart.

>>44336403
This must be a sign that Yukari was always a good girl at heart and she was only cynical because of her environment.

I had a dream a few years back where I was exploring a lake with these two and a giant lobster attacked us.

>>44338535
and what happened next?

>>44337132
Not really sure what to tell you other than you're asking a buncha questions that have nothing to do with the setting when viewed through the settings eyes. It's like complaining about Princess Peach being a bad ruler because she keeps getting kidnapped; her getting kidnapped is just part of the story, much like Gensokyo having both youkais and humans. The nameless humans who get eaten and the nameless youkais who starve or otherwise waste away? They might as well not exist as anything other than window dressing to the background. There won't be a permanent solution because Gensokyo doesn't need a permanent solution as it's not a real place, basically.

I'll give you some of the stuff with the Dragon God if only because he's an entity that, quite frankly, is very understated for his relative importance. I don't remember him being a lunarian though, I thought it just resided in a generic place above or at the top of Heaven.

>>44338548
We crossed the river on a boat that I was to weak to paddle but Renko did it no problem. At the end there was the mansion from Great Gatsby with Leonardo DiCaprio, but instead of Leo there was Kasen and she went to welcome us and congratulate us. She also told us we were late for the trial.

>>44338586
>we were late for the trial
Too bad anon, if the lobster did not waste your time you would have been there and would have gotten gapped imto Gensokyo.

>>44338599
The trial was a sham anyways, the dude was caught dead to rights for murder but pulled out a letter from the Queen of England saying he was pardoned.
Were those dreams my chance at entering Gensokyo? That same year I had another one where I was alongside Keine and Mokou saving penguins from an unnaturally elevated piece of land.

>>44338574
>you're asking a buncha questions that have nothing to do with the setting when viewed through the settings eyes.
The sustainability of Gensokyo is pretty damn important from the setting's eyes, as the survival of all non-humans there is dependent on it. And sure, it may not be a real place, but that doesn't make the storytelling good when such an obvious issue is just ignored. It's the same thing with ZUN stating it works on Sazae-san time even though it was stated to mostly be in lockstep with real world time. Akyuu should, chronologically, be dying within a year or so, but that and its ramifications will never be addressed because ZUN, for whatever reason, made a setting without the intent of actually doing anything with said setting.

>>44338702
I think we just have a fundamental disagreement on what Touhou really is then. I'm not going to say my views are more important than your own because we're both just two random fags but not really what else I can say that's already been said. I could say "what would Akyuu's death bring to the table?" but I know you'd also have some good reasons for it, I'd likely disagree with those reasons needing to exist in the first place, and it'd kinda just be a back and forth that goes really nowhere. At the end of the day no fictional setting is perfect and plenty of things will be left by the wayside, like how games with huge cities and a whole world to explore will only show you maybe one 2 acre farm at best making you wonder how a society can function with so little food, but while I believe that I can just gloss over stuff like that there's plenty of other things that I can't like "how the fuck does your average RPG town even exist when 10 buildings makes a major city?". It's complex and contradictory but that's what it is.

The only Touhou dream I've had was me playing it on an old CRT TV with a teasing girl sitting behind me on a couch (I was sitting against it on the floor) with her legs resting over my shoulders.

>>44338629
>Were those dreams my chance at entering Gensokyo?
Maribel entered Gensokyo in her dreams, and, well, astral projection is postulated to exist in real life...

>>44338702
For sustainability Genokyo is fine internally, the Humans are protected from any real harm, while the Youkai have plenty to work with. Not to mention over time the situation has improved, Erin opened a pharmacy, and although they conflict with each other the new religious groups all work together when it comes to protecting the humans.
The biggest threats are external, like the Lunarians, Animal realm spirits, and other outside factions trying to influence Gensokyo.

And although I agree with you that characters not aging and such is weird, especially in Akyuu's case, the setting has experienced numerous shake ups before, with the most recent being the Black Market, and Animal realm intervention. Yeah there's a status quo, but every series has that and the goal of our protagonists is to protect their preexisting way of life

>>44338834
I never had a touhou dream. In my entire life the only time i ever had a dream with a video game was with the train tracks from gta san andreas as a kid.

>>44338867
>All you had to do!

>>44333044
This answer might SHOCK you and everyone here. But just hear me out. Maybe, just MAYBE the reason why one is a total bitch and the other is nice...is because they're two separate people! The only similarities they have are being breedable blondes. Yes id like to breed them.

>>44339474
Who is Id and why is he relevant to your point?

Which one has lived the "College Experience" more?

>>44339507
Maribel has an unquestionably sluttier personality than Renko.

>>44339507
Merry seems like the kind of girl who doesn't put out.

>>44333044
Yukari being an absent mother meant she never gave her daughter her bad habits or impulses

>>44341315
>Merry seems like the kind of girl who doesn't pull out.
I fixed your typo for you.

>>44333184
>>44339474
Secondaries please read the hiffuu club stories.

>>44333044
Renko got married and started a family while Maribel ended up stewing in millennia of rendement when she realised that no man would ever want her.

>>44333044
"those purple wearing girls are the same!"
sasuga, /jp/. yakumo yukari and maribel hearn are not the same, I am not that meanie.

>>44345480
Does he know?

>>44346275
I think he doesn't know

>>44339488
I dont know what you're talking about. Are you retarded?

>>44342434
Faggots, please stop consooming copious amounts of fanon and misinterpreting canon. Next you're gonna shill for yuri lmao.

>>44346830
So you havent read the hiffuu club stories, alr, opinion discarded.

>>44346830
Secondary-kun, I sincerely hope you're baiting and that you actually know about the works of Lafcadio Hearn and their influence on Touhou as a whole.

I think that Yukari is cute

>>44333044
This is what happens when a cute girl turns into a hag.

>>44346830
It's actually one of the few things in the background of Touhou that is as explicit as explicit gets.

If you met Yukari in real life would she be dangerous or do you think she'd be respectful?

>>44347702
Most of her interactions, but PMiSS in particular indicate that behind the veneer of haughtiness, Yukari desperately wants friends. Expect clingy behavior if you treat her with anything kinder than barely concealed disdain.

>>44334453
That's wife material right there.

>>44347993
I remenber that one LE chapter where youkai trio laughed at Yukari for being so desperate lol, also in which chapter are her interactions?

>>44333044
Cease your slander. Yukari is a kind, beautiful, and most importantly, YOUNG girl.

>>44348347
I mostly mean the fighting game interactions. You can also see it in how she acts in SSiB how she's not actually all she hypes herself up to be.

If Maribel and Yukari are the same person then Yukari's interactions with Sumireko are very peculiar.

I want me and Yukari to be codependent on each other! Together forever!

>>44356048
That's just Yukari's real personality, she tries to put up a very "Youkai-like" personality when in Genosokyo.
Akyuu talks about how she probably attacks humans in the outside world, but in the cases of people getting isekied we've always had other explanations like Dreamers accidentally bringing people over, or naturally weak parts in the barrier. She even goes out of her way in WaHH and FS to protect Reimu's state of mind, and part of that is taking responsibility for things that aren't her fault and making herself into a villian.
She's not perfect, she does bad stuff in order to protect Gensokyo and the greater good, as well as being a petty bitch. Both exemplified in her attacks on the moon; the first one being a purposeful failure to demoralize Youkai and the one with Remi being petty revenge against Eirin.

>>44356048
>Yukari's interactions with Sumireko
What's her interaction with Sumireko again?

>>44357044
>she tries to put up a very "Youkai-like" personality when in Genosokyo.
I've always interpreted "her character is lacking in human sentiment, and her behavioral principles are completely different from those of humans" in PMiSS as her just being a huge troll, which is pretty funny.
I've always had two major things against Yukari. 1) Her shikigami, and 2) Feeding youkai with humans. The first seems as though its being elaborated on more with time, so perhaps Ran isn't just an absolute slave like I've theorized, and the second could be justified in a few ways, namely, gapping in rapists and serial killers, of which there is no shortage of in the US or Japanese prison systems. She's (probably) not human, and her main job IS to maintain Gensokyo, so I can't treat her like I would some normal person doing the same things.
I can at least say though that she isn't a psychopath or purely evil.

>>44357044
>the first one being a purposeful failure to demoralize Youkai
Yukari, get off of the Jay, anyone with more than a single braincell can tell that if the first youkai invasion of the moon was a deliberate failure, then there would be no need for "revenge" in the second, not to mention the only record of that being the known-for-its-falsehoods Gensokyo Chronicles made by Akyuu.

>>44334323
real

>>44357132
>get off of the Jay
Oh please, she couldn't use a computer if she wanted to. It was a trial in patience just teaching her how to use a fax machine.
The real reason for the first genso-lunar war was to send the most violent and bloodthirsty youkai off to their deaths so that they couldn't pose a risk to Gensokyo's future stability.

>>44357186
She's very intelligent. She 100% has computers in her mansion (The good ones from the outside world, not Thinkpads from Rinnosuke's shop) and shits on 98% of /g/.

>>44357132
I'm more inclined to believe the first Genso-lunar war was a planned failure due to lack of alternative motive, yeah she dislikes the moon and Eirin, but she doesn't hate them.
Zun describes the general opinion towards Lunarians as hateful, but only due to the Lunarians one-sided hatred towards the earth, which seems to match best with Yukari's opinion of them, she doesn't really have any particular hatred towards them.
And if not revenge they why attack the Lunarians at all? she knows how strong they are and says the Lunarians can't be opposed by might.

>>44357186
>so that they couldn't pose a risk to Gensokyo's future stability.
Well she clearly did a bang-up job of that given that her own comments in WaHH imply that it's teetering on the brink due to lack of mental layer real estate. Having beings from entirely separate regions immigrate there like Hecatia must help a lot with that too.
>>44358799
>And if not revenge they why attack the Lunarians at all?
That's exactly the point I'm making. If the failure was planned, there wouldn't be anything to take revenge for. Frankly, given the established temporal disconnect with Maribel showing up in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost prior to the years the Hifuu Albums take place in, and the complete lack of mention of what happened to Renko, I'd have to assume that something involving the Lunarians as the most direct answer for why she would bother to pick a fight with them twice. As for why she'd ignore the strength gap, well, it's well established that Yukari thinks she's a much better schemer than she actually is.

>>44361866
The "revenge" mission was literally petty revenge against Eirin and her showing off that she could oppose the Lunarians with wits. For all of their boastfulness the Lunarians are out-foxed and tricked my Yukari.
Resulting in her, yuyuko, Ran, and Yoummu drinking Eirin's expensive alcohol she left on the moon.
For why she dislikes Eirin, I don't think she needs a particular reason for petty vengance other than her being a petty bitch and not liking Eirin.

>>44362051
>For all of their boastfulness the Lunarians are out-foxed and tricked my Yukari.
Yukari's entire plot there was carried by Yuyuko, and you can see her silently seethe when she finds out all Yuyuko stole was just some sake. Not to mention there really isn't anything THAT impressive about Yukari's plan. She's not Light or Napoleon, she's just Maribel trying to act out her fantasies of being her middle school OC.

>>44362051
>she dislikes Eirin
Isn't that because Eirin and Kaguya decided to integrate themselves as human instead of youkai in Gensokyo, Yukari gave them a little demonstration of the pecking order?

>>44362094
I don't know about you but I didn't read her reaction as seething, she's just confused then humored.
Just a few pages earlier she even states the goal of the mission of was for Yuyuko to burglarize something, emphasis on something, there wasn't clear instruction on what to steal because she was fine with just about anything, the sake surprised her is all.
And although Yuyuko has the most crucial role i wouldn't say she carried the mission, Yukari and the SDM group play their roles as decoys perfectly and all of that is only able to happen due to Yukari's planning.

>>44362157
>she's just confused then humored.
She looks pretty unambiguously displeased when she asks Yuyuko what the sake is. The grand irony being that Yukari's entire plan predicated on being able to predict the actions of those she informed about it, such as Remilia, while then failing to appropriately predict Yuyuko's own actions on the moon. Again, none of that is particularly impressive. Remilia being relatively childlike and that pride of hers that drove her to try to beat Yukari to the moon is something that can be seen with even a surface level observation, and it goes without saying that even without Eirin warning the Watatsukis, the Lunarians wouldn't just sit by and be unprepared for a second invasion attempt through the same route of connecting the illusory and real moons, even for as stagnant as they normally are.
Even if we assume that, as Yukari would like people to believe, it's "all according to keikaku," it still isn't impressive, and the very fact that she acts like it is is proof enough that she's not all she hypes herself up to be.

>>44362253
Anon, her plan literally succeeds in all aspects, she just expected Yuyuko to get something other than sake. She even says.
>Stealing something they can't come back to get was the best idea
She's not angry, and agrees with Yuyuko that taking the sake was a smart idea, if anything her wanting a normal burglary was the fault in her plan and that's what Yuyuko improved, by Yukari's own admission.

>>44362253
She doesn't really looks displeased, more just shocked anime/manga style for comedic effect. I swear people completely misinterpret these things and end up doing things like labeling Reimu a psychopath for comedically burying Marisa. Its like calling Plankton a metaphor for Chinese industrial espionage because he's trying to steal the krabby patty secret formula from a restaurant symbolic of American capitalism.

>>44362301
>She even says. "Stealing something they can't come back to get was the best idea"
Yukari says a lot of things, many of which are cope. You could prevent the Lunarians from getting something else back by destroying it just as easily. And again, this still ignores the fact that she very clearly isn't happy to see what Yuyuko brought back. Being unable to read facial expressions like that is a sign that you may be as autistic as the Yook herself. You also claim she "agreed" with Yuyuko that it was the best idea when Yuyuko herself never said anything.
I knew Yukari fans were ODing on copium since she lost to bondage, but I didn't expect it to be this severe.

>>44362503
Anon read >>44362472
and for "agreeing" with Yuyuko, she literally agrees with Yuyukos course of action, that's literally what she said.
When a person takes an action and another say they agree with or like that action, that's also agreeing with someone.

jobber

>>44333044

bump

bumping for hags

>>44358799
>Lunarians one-sided hatred towards the earth
do not trespass.

>>44392410
Honestly the Lunarians publicly asking earth not to fuck with them would probably stop all attempted moon landings.
Even America which is a hostile nation to them would now find it more difficult due to potential public outcry, and honestly there isn't much on the moon that the nations of earth would want.
But the moonies are too busy sperging about "muh purity" to realize a majority of earth does not know they exist and probably wouldn't care about them if they did know moonies were real.

>>44394244
>Honestly the Lunarians publicly asking earth not to fuck with them would probably stop all attempted moon landings.
>Even America which is a hostile nation to them would now find it more difficult due to potential public outcry
nigga the moonies still blatantly enslave the indigenous population (moon rabbit)
if anything, the entire western cunts will race to develop spaceship to liberate them

>>44394673
They don't need to tell the the moon rabbits, just say
>were here, stay the fuck off the moon, we want to be left alone and will respond with force if you violate our sovereignty.
Just tell people they exist and to fuck off, and practically speaking even if the world knew about the moon rabbits and cared enough to start a war over it, fighting a war on the moon is so ridiculously impractical I don't think it's a matter of if they want to.

>>44346830
go back

>>44394709
You underestimate human's stubbornness

>>44394775
Humans are just pets.

On the surface it would seem like the Lunarians would win against humanity...

But, they wouldn't.

>>44394775
Calm down there Netero.

>>44333347
Even a standard needs to have subjective interpretations anyway, though, so they're as effective as having no standards unless you try forcing your subjective interpretations onto others

I want to swap places with that pillow and have comfy naps with Yukarin

>>44410604
Better hope she doesn't decide to sleep for a few days or months, there's no getting out of her inescapable youkai grip until she wakes up.

>>44418491
Anon and Yukari being moved to a hospital bed
Anon having to survive by IV drip
Ran looking disgusted at Anon every time she has to swap out his bedpan
Anon having to endure Ran and Chen's verbal abuse as he's stuck in Yukari's arms