/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>44328623
sex lady

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Mima was not playable

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Alice was not playable

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Yuuka was not playable

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Kagerou was not playable

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Shou was not playable

>>44328623
What do you want us to say, really? We all know the quality of the games has dipped because ZUN has a busier schedule than ever, and probably knows that Touhou has gained such popularity that even if he half-asses things, people will keep sucking his cock, a bit like what's happening with Pokemon. What is there to add?

>>44328623
>100th Black Market was extremely bad
You're literally retarded if you think this. The only problem with 100BM is missing replays and some sort of score, problems also found with Juuouen. But these don't detract from two great games, even if both are a little bit too easy. Both games are very fun to play and present some really nice experiments on the future of Touhou.

>>44328623
>and yet people just seem to ignore it to bicker about translations or obsess over the new characters.
You act like most people even play the games when plainly they don't. Most people's investment in to touhou is memes and dojins.
Those who do enjoy the games are a dying breed.

>>44328801
>The only problem with 100BM is missing replays and some sort of score,
These are absolute core things of the genre...

>>44328791
>>44328810
Fair enough.
>>44328801
What do those two games bring that other Touhou games (or other games in the genre, for that matter) don't do better?

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Goku was not playable

>>44328825
>What do those two games bring that other Touhou games (or other games in the genre, for that matter) don't do better?
New gameplay mechanics, new characters, story, and music, genius
>But these are all bad!
Maybe you've outgrown Touhou. There, end of thread.

>>44328868
funny you should say that

>>44328623
No sex scene

>>44328915
Those gameplay mechanics are not polished enough to be worthwhile. There were games that were rather unfinished even in Touhou's earlier days (EoSD, for example), but none of them cut out score, replays and even basic quality of life features such as button combinations in favor of mechanics that weren't tested enough to work well. Even Ten Desires had spell practice from IN return despite the game itself being Ten Desires.

i liked both games and i don't care about what others think. no matter how much you complain you have no say in what ZUN makes. just don't play the games if you don't like them anymore. nobody is forcing you and you will gain nothing by complaining about it. try to focus on the posìves and enjoy it or go back to /v/ and rage about if

>>44329051
Yukari gapped him and his bullshit away, make sure to thank her!

>>44329051
You can enjoy any game ever created if you ignore the negatives. I respect your optimism, but Touhou will not be any better if the games just keep getting worse and losing features on top of that.

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Noroiko was not playable

>>44329128
Touhou won't be any better regardless unless you go to ZUN's house and take away his beer or something.

>>44329144
Fair enough. Well, while I didn't have fun with those games, I hope you will, then.

>>44328623
ZUN doesn't play his own games anymore

>>44329128
i dont ignore the negatives. positives outweigh the negatives and i don't get why people are doomposting about ZUN and new games. you'll never enjoy anything if you get upset at anything that isn't perfect. it's not like older games were polished snd perfect either. i find earlier windows games boring while people praise them to death. tell me how eosd or pcb are superior to games like ufo, lolk or to even bm100. and i loved bm100 played it non stop when it came out and i still think it's a better game than th18 as i think the arcade playstyle is better for the card gameplay

>>44328623
Seems like the point of this game is really just for laughing while drinking with friends rather than becoming another tryhard focused games like in touhou 3-16

>>44329269
so like any other phantasmagoria game?

>>44329272
Yeah, but instead of keeping a 'balance' and scoring system, Zun just sacrificed those, aiming to create more chaotic gameplay and more chaotic gameplay = funny. This I suppose, is what happened in Zun's head during the game's development

>>44329363
it's not like pofv or podd were balanced

>>44329131
i genuinley would like to see pc-98 midbosses again

>>44328661
I heard she grapes human men

>>44328623
>and yet people just seem to ignore it to bicker about translations or obsess over the new characters
... because we know how to have fun, anon.
What I don't get is why everyone is complaining. Yeah it sucks that replays aren't available but guess what? They barely worked in POFV as well.
I remember the entire game just deciding to crash after trying to save a replay with certain characters.
Zun might be a little... lazy.

>>44329759
I actually made this thread because I didn't see anyone talking about the game, so I don't get the everyone is complaining thing. I do agree that those things had issues before, like how even aside from Flower View's replay issues, Mountain of Faith and Subterranean Animism had desync issues, but outright removing things is baffling to me. I suppose I don't get Touhou, but I enjoyed some of what 18 did despite feeling like it could be improved upon.

>>44329868
Honestly? Yeah the new game is a bit broken. But this is my favorite series and I've always enjoyed Zun's work.
I would get into how impossible some of the patterns are, but that's how POFV was too.
I'd get despaired over the cards being introduced, but that was kind of fun in 100thBM.
I mean I actually had fun in UM because of that new system. He did something I haven't seen before and that made it enjoyable.
So yeah I agree that UDoALG is kind of lackluster, but I'm totally gonna attempt to have fun with it. I'm hoping sooner than later someone releases a fan made rollback function for netplay.

>>44328623
I still don't understand why the afterword is just senile ramblings about AI.

This is what ZUN said about AI:

"Hello, this is ZUN.
It's quite hot this year, isn't it?

This year, AI has been monopolizing the conversation. What AI is doing is one answer that lies along the path of efficiency. Even before, if you wanted to learn a skill, you could search the net and even a beginner could create a masterpiece of unparalleled skill. So, instead of wasting time asking the net, just have AI create it, and it can do anything. Amazing, skilled, beautiful—such evaluations for a work could be achieved in an instant with AI.

That is, if you're strictly seeking efficiency.

Suddenly, around last year, when AI began to explode, the stubborn me thought, "If AI is taking over the world, then relatively, the value of my own creations will rise." So, I decided to create a work with an enormous amount of effort, which is this current work.

As a symbol of AI, perfection, lifelessness, and hindsight, versus imperfection, organic nature, and the importance of the process—what are these? Simply put, it's about being a living being. While humans were occupied with AI, the beasts were creating a world where they could truly experience life. That's the theme of this work, packed with such illusions.

The result is this (laughs).
When I started making this game, it was cold, but I kept running almost without breaks, and by the time it was completed, it was sweltering. Where did the cherry blossoms go...

Well, anyway, the amount of work was substantial. But the satisfaction was also high.
The Story Mode, which underwent adjustments until the very end, and the VS Mode, where you don't know what will happen next. I believe this is a rare gem in recent game history. Well, AI probably wouldn't create such a work (laughs). Truly the work of a beast...
In the end, it became a game that can be enjoyed by clearing all characters in one go.

Haihara Kaito, who drew the boss's pixel art and who I just updated until a little while ago. They improved in STG skills, and thanks to them. Thanks to them, the game has become lively and adorable. Thank you very much.

Now, as for this work, there are many parts that lack explanations in terms of the system. Especially about the abilities of all characters, there is hardly any explanation.
I really wanted to explain it on the character selection screen, but it didn't make it in due to the sheer volume of work."

>>44329944
This lmao, at least put your rants on Twitter or something so that a lot of people are gonna see it your instead of some notepad text in a media that 95% of your fanbase would never even touch in the first place (the game)

You just have to face the fact that the gameplay was never at the center of Touhou games. The music, characters and story are.
If ZUN learned filmmaking he would make short videos. If he learned to draw manga by himself he would just release manga.
Turns out he learned how to make games and had an interest in shooting games in particular so that's what he's doing.
He never was an amazing programmer or a genius game designer and never will. He makes the musics, characters and lore then builds a rather simple game to bind those together so he can put it on a disc to be sold during the next doujin event.
The gameplay might not even be balanced or free of bugs, if it works well enough and the others parts are in then the game can be distributed so he can start thinking about what he's going to do next.
I bet all of you complaining don't even buy the games even though these days it's incredibly easy do to so for the filthy gaijin that we are.

>>44329944
Read the words that he wrote. He explains why.

Am I shadowbanned? Guys, I have the translated text here >>44329976

>>44328955
(You)

>>44329944
All afterwords are stupid ramblings since ZUN doesn't actually want to spoil the game in it
Here, take a look at the afterword for TH10:
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Mountain_of_Faith/Afterword
And now the afterword for TH15:
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Translation/Afterword
Now notice how he doesn't talk about AI in the one game that actually is themed around AI vs humans/animals:
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Wily_Beast_and_Weakest_Creature/Translation/Afterword

>>44330004
Cope, shit game is a shit game no matter how you spin it, dude's been in this industry for almost three decades at this point so stop sucking his dick lmao

>>44329051
>you will gain nothing by complaining about it
>try to focus on the posìves and enjoy it
What an abhorrent worldview you have. What, people aren't allowed to voice their complaints? They should only say positive things and if they feel like there are flaws they should just shut up because critical discussions should be avoided? Why are you telling people that you like the game, you aren't going to gain anything by praising it. Hell, why post in this thread at all? You should just ignore it and focus on the nice threads instead.

>>44330251
He just likes it and you don't. You both are making it sound more dramatic than what's really happening lmao
Anyway I think it all comes down to the OP sucking balls. If he wanted to make a hate thread or positive thread he could have done so.
But instead he choose the "why do you like it?" angle in bad faith, knowing full well that he would not change his opinion.
So yeah, if it was me I'd let this thread die.

>>44330325
>He just likes it and you don't
I haven't even played 19, I don't have much of an opinion on it besides designs. He's more than welcome to enjoy the game and talk about how much he loves it, but it just really irks me whenever someone says something along the lines of "Don't be negative, just let people enjoy things!!!" whenever criticisms come up, deserved or otherwise. I insulted his worldview and not his opinions of the game for a reason.

>>44330367
Fair. Well if I should actually talk about reasons why I like the game then I would say that the roster alone sells it to me.
I was never a fan of PoFV with its kinda random roster with boring inclusions well as its length in number of stages.
This one however has only six stages for each character so it plays like standard Touhou.
And the roster is thematically consistent with animal youkai being at the center, plus playable beast spirits leaders.
And another difference with the PoFV roster is that in this one everyone feels relevant and a part of the story.
Not to mention for once ZUN did new bullet types that look very fun.

>>44330325
I apologize if my wording on the post has caused bickering, I did not want to start bickering. I will avoid further posting and try to give the game another chance and I hope that even if I don't enjoy it, you will have fun with it.

People that complain about the balance of the game are corrupted by esports, and I say this as someone that has 2000+ hours on DotA yet a game developer.
Balance is the anti-fun, and leads to same-y gameplay. Anyone that's played enough games with "rosters" more or less knows this, even if they don't realize it. It's why tier lists for games like these have been a big thing since forever.
2hu 19, in that sense, play the "unbalanced" nature quite well. Yes, some characters are clearly better than others, and if you just wanted to tryhard score then there'll be one or two characters that will be the go-to... but that's the same for every Touhou or even just straight up every game, period.
The characters all play differently and have fun bullet types. That's what matters, and that's what good for me.

>>44328753
>>44328755
the only reasonable complains, these
>>44328689
>>44328708
>>44328714
are copes

>>44328791
>a bit like what's happening with Pokemon
It feels weird how one series mirrored the other in some aspects in their entire run that's not funny anymore even worse now that toby fox was involved in both

>>44328810
>Most people's investment in to touhou is memes and dojins.
at least some nips took over the new interactions formed across the games to get their headcannons running, like the yuuma-ran lost forgotten friendship is prime material for both porn and not porn doujinshi; basically something new among the tiresome SDM-themed works that still are made even now (and even these got a new breathe of fresh air with okina and yuuma)

>>44328623
>what went wrong here?
Sanae was playable

>>44329944
AI-themed touhou confirmed

>>44331012
Mayumi and her game is already AI themed touhou

>>44330942
What does Toby have to do with this? I'm pretty sure he just does a bit of music here and there.

>>44328810
Those who enjoy the games are not some dying breed. Yes, if you compare the numbers of fans that play the games vs the fans that don't, those that don't likely win out, but I'm willing to bet there are far more people that play the games now more than ever. It is far more accessible than ever before, and whether we like it or not, outside elements like memes entice people to getting in the fandom, and even if only 1 out of 20 new people in those play the game, that's 1 new player.
>>44330942
This is something that confuses me. Why the hate for some western developer? You dislike he enjoys a series you like too? Sounds retarded, the guy's been a fan far longer than a lot of people here in /jp/. I wouldn't even be surprised if he posted here at some point.

>>44328623
>>44329976
rereading this I know what is the true gripe of this (and the most recent) games have, the degrading of the artistic part and how I think ZUN felt for the trap of more ugly=better artistic value, and I´m not talking about character design in this

>>44328623
>Even by Phantasmagoria standards
Retard spotted

>>44331032
Stop simping for shitty devs carried by a single meme game.

>>44331023
Ran having a blue background on the character select like the regular main characters is because of a joke with Toby Fox

>>44329509
Anon Koakuma and Daiyousei havent had an official ZUN drawns portrait since 2002, as much as it pains me I dont think we will ever see the likes of Matenshi ever again.

Reimu getting otterly btfo!!!

>>44328623
>yet people just seem to ignore it to bicker about translations or obsess over the new characters.
This might be news for you, but 90% of the fanbase don't play the games themselves, they just look at the new 2hus, draw some shit, talk about funni "lore" and then fuck off.
For the people who actually play the games, these last 2 games have been really low quality and not even worth playing at this point.
ZUN had a fluke with UM, apparently he had more time to work on it because he didn't spend 2 years getting drunk and doing crunch during the last 4 months to release a broken mess.

>>44330790
The problem isn't that the game is "unbalanced", it's that two characters are broken in a glitchy. Chiyuri can spawn bullets on top of an opponent, and Reimu can one shot bosses without using bombs. That's anti fun for PVP purposes.

>>44331291
The guy you're quoting hates UM too.

>>44331048
You mean the shitty music?

>>44331305
I don't care about what he think for that particular game.
The card system is an undeniably fun addition and makes the game super replayable.
In 19, the cards are just something you pick at random during the extremely short story mode, it's just straight up bad.

>>44331291
ZUN honestly has no excuse, he doesn't run a company, is rich, and has no deadlines. If he needs 3 years to make a solid game, just take the 3 years.

>>44331299
>Chiyuri can spawn bullets on top of an opponent
To be fair, any character can technically do that and Enoko will naturally during gameplay. There's a lot more to those bullshit flames than just being able to spawn on the player, that character is beyond broken.

>>44331291
Again, (You)
No matter how much this gets posted no I don't give a fuck and yes I play the games
>>44331318
Deadlines are good for creativity, whether you like it or not
I understand that Pokémon fell off as a franchise and some of you guys see the pattern everywhere but the comparison is retarded

>>44331509
You sound like a retard with no standards who wants to keep consooming just because ZUN shat it out of his own ass.
No one should ever listen to your opinion on anything.

>>44331509
>Deadlines are good for creativity, whether you like it or not
If that were the case then we should see two releases a year instead of one. The point is that everything needs a balance, and if that requires an extra year or two to polish areas of the game that are fundamentally important then that should be taken more liberally. The real issue with creativity isn't having too much time, it's not sticking to a consistent routine.

>I understand that Pokémon fell off as a franchise and some of you guys see the pattern everywhere but the comparison is retarded
It's a repeated pattern with plenty of franchises, anon. The chances of ZUN falling off that much harder aren't 0, even if they're not 100.

>>44331318
>has no deadlines
He does, its every major convention. He has to put out some form of content to continue to appease the fans, who typically beg him to make another game at least once a year. Otherwise the series falls into obscurity, and everyone runs off to paypig their gacha shit. Hell, the $15 he makes off each purchase is still deducted from printing cds and licensing costs on steam/other game hosts.

>>44331509
He can keep the same deadline for creativity by finalizing planned content, and then taking his time to implement content. The deadline is not stifling creativity, but he needs to take extra time to polish the games.
>>44332076
This argument would make sense if this was 1997 and steam didn't exist, but UM released digitally first thanks to covid and still sold great.

>>44329595
Then gets graped afterwards

>>44331078
I've never even played UT. You sound like an angry midget.

We'll get the fix soon right?

>>44328623
it's fun for like an hour if you really subvert your expectations from the older mainline games. i'm pretty sure zun did all the playtesting and balancing around reimu like usual, forgot other characters existed, and added the shield mechanic as a shitty bandaid when he ran out of time