/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I don't remember if there's anything I strongly dislike, but it's a shame that Seiran and Ringo don't end up residing on Eientei.
Maybe one day ZUN will change his mind and let the rabbits reunite.

>>44256825
An Inaba of the moon/earth with a premise like this could be pretty good actually

>>44256825
Eh just because they're moon rabbits doesn't mean they need to go to the same place, Seiran's story right now in 19 is about trying to find a home for herself which is nice

>>44256571
To this day, I still believe Letty not having a strong connection with Cirno and only appearing in winter is what killed her popularity.

>>44256571
>Letty hates Cirno
She's dissmissive at worst.

>>44257250
She really is one of those characters that appears once in a blue moon
>>44257308
Read BAiJR Letty article, she goes out of her way to say she is a nature's anomaly and will never be as good as the real deal or some shit like that.

It's very minor, but ZUN drawing Orin with both sets of ears is strange to me. You'll typically never see other animal youkai's human ears with their hairstyles so she stands out.

>>44256571
I really really hate how Reimu killed the fortune teller, the one opportunity to have an interesting and smart (ex)human character in Touhou lore and ZUN fucking threw him in the trash.

>>44256571
Cirno is a dumb fairy. Letty has at least some pride.

>>44262349
While I agree with you on it being upsetting, I think it was a great demonstration on just how awful of a place Gensokyo really is, even moreso than how apathetic and dismissive the protags are in DDC when the strength gap is brought up.

Byakuren has consistently occupied the very bottom of my sorter by "virtue" of selfishness, hypocrisy, glory-hounding, wilful ignorance and overall falsity.

I do, however, think that this makes her a very compelling and "human" character. I just loathe the traits exhibits and their actualisation in the series' events, that's all.

>>44262381
This plus how serious they are about keeping the status quo.

>>44262468
The broad strokes of this are how I feel about Yukari. Made worse by the fact that if it weren't for her crimes against humanity I'd consider her very likable as a person, in the whole sense of being endearingly dorky and awkward.

Same as your opinion on Byak, she's by all accounts a great character once you pull back the curtain on all the mystique, but I still wouldn't be able to resist decking her if I ever met her.

>>44262475
Unless the incident instigator is a cute girl.

>>44262468
I'd like to occupy Byakuren's bottom, if you catch my drift.

>>44262533
I don't think I do, Anon. Would you care to explain in rigorous detail?

>>44262381
Been a while since I played DDC. Weren't the protags especially nasty to the weaker youkai due to their possessed tools influencing them?

>>44262518
All her crimes where necessary to preserve her own existance and the existance of every other youkai, i think its justifiable.

>>44262847
>existance
Meant existence, my hdd died and i am not used with phoneposting.

>>44262847
While WaHH makes it clear that there's a difference between primal, man-eating youkai and modern ones that simply require belief, it also establishes that the former can become the latter, so if nothing else, the sheer amount of indirect murders is unnecessary, and therefore unjustified. This doesn't even go into the sheer amount of information available to the Sages, which means that if any of them wanted to figure out a better solution, there shouldn't be anything stopping them. Yukari, however, consistently is the most involved in maintaining the undeniably terrible status quo of Gensokyo.

And to that end, even if we assume it is somehow justified, you'd have to be off your gourd to just be okay with mass murder. You wouldn't let a starving african child eat you alive, even if it meant they'd die.

That Mystia is a forgetful dumbass. I just find her annoying.

>>44262219
>Read BAiJR Letty article
no u

>>44262219
she only says that because aya asks if she could make it colder in the summer, where she says she can only manipulate the cold itself and not cold air like cirno can, and that is what differentiates them.

>>44262991
What I said, congrats.

For me, it's the "shikigami are separate entities possessing youkai" retcon.
Makes no sense considering what shikigami are, even in context of Touhou.

>>44262920
>if any of them wanted to figure out a better solution, there shouldn't be anything stopping them
Even if an engineer knows a theoretically better solution, practically implementing it could be dangerous, costly, and upset people who are too used to the way things are. Yes the human cost is brutal, but why go through the effort of reforming centuries of fear and superstition when it's much easier to let youkai do their thing?
And really, I don't see why they would care. It's a reserve for supernatural and forgotten beings first and foremost.

>>44263197
A reserve that already is all-but-stated to be spread thin in terms of humans as a resource. If youkai wanted to survive, it should be obvious that a method that would make enemies is a bad idea, and given how Magician Youkai are "created" it's not like there isn't at least one method that could allow for a permanent solution in-canon.

For me, it's Flan being so happy to murder Meiling. I was one of those baseless losers who loved the idea that Meiling was to Flan what Sakuya is to Remilia, but ZUN decided to make Meiling a suspicious idiot who immediately found Sakuya suspicious, got possessed quickly, then nearly got murdered by Flan.

>>44262349
what really sucks is how village people need to stay ignorant or they'll get shanked for trying to get out of their boring life

>>44263227
As much as I would like a Gensokyo that relies less on human suffering, I don't see it happening any time soon. ZUN would have to introduce a big resource shortage incident that would make youkai even consider changing their tactics.

>>44263309
Oh I know, ZUN "Status Quo Is God" Hakurei will almost certainly never have the plot go anywhere, especially with the number of character arcs he's dropped or botched. It's part of my love-hate relationship with the franchise because while the setting deeply interests me, ZUN actively chooses to dash all that potential against the ground, with even the vast majority of Incidents having exceedingly little meaningful bearing on the worldstate.

>>44256571
How much PC98 has been abandoned.

>>44263374
Maybe this should have just been a canon facts hate thread, oh well

>>44262468
What she does doesn't go very far from average Gensokyoan. I think you shouldn't expect too much morality from a Touhou character.

>>44263494
I think what bothers him is the hipocrisy part which is pretty understandable.

>>44263541
Like, hipocrisy against buddhist value?
ZUN introduced the religion factions just to add more jap lore stuff, I don't think he's intended to teach the audience its moral value. That's why he made the faction full of juvenile youkai, just so all its cast doesn't act like the same virtuous devout buddhists which would be boring.
I don't think it's an issue unless you take Buddhism too seriously. In the end it's just an aesthetic and depicted as some form of empowerment.

>>44263661
Easy example would be Dream Byak's dialogue in AoCF. I don't think she's quite that bad from that alone, especially given what Dream Selves are, but I don't strictly take issue with the Anon above disliking the two-faced behavior she DOES display.

>>44263732
I think you just don't like lying women, anon. It's not really a big deal but you do you.

>>44263817
But the myoren temple as a whole is just one big vanity project for byak.
All the pro-youkai stuff is more or less justification for her being a youkai magician, but not so much that she'll fade from lack of fear.

>>44263817
I dont like woman that eat hot chip too

>>44263817
I'm not the anon that hates Byak, I'm actually quite fond of her. I'm the anon that would put Yukari through a Touch of Death combo.

>>44263870
The pro-youkai stuff is generally to give youkai a better standing in society. She definitely won't fade but I don't think her magic power matters anymore at that point.

>>44263293
Mine is the SDM crew g seen as comic book level of evil by some in Gensokyo, while for the rest of the inhabitants thy are seen as a nuisance to best be avoided. Or Remilia being seen as some untouchable, irredeemable monster vs. a walking blob of moe that pisses herself when things get slightly inconvenient. She and her sister (and all the others in the mansion) are incredibly multifaceted individuals that could have all kind of possibilities in the actual lore/games/manga, but are instead played for laughs or cliche. Where's my game about Patchouli going through the library and teaching you to summon things, or the Tai Chi practice as taught by Meiling, or the first person game where you help Sakuya keep up with the mansion chores like in the sims (we have a power washing game, so this isn't even a question of boring), or hell, the Koakuma secret porn game where you have to take pictures of her in the library like playing Pokémon snap? And where is the canon game or manga for my wife, Remilia? I live Flan to death, but if she can be made to look cool without resorting to a fan game (Scarlet Curiousity, which is excellent in my opinion) why can't Remi?

>>44263293
The fact that he put that scene in makes me think it was to intentionally kill that headcanon in particular.
I also really liked that idea...

>>44262468
I wanna expose that wicked monk for all her hypocrisy to the world so bad.

>>44263494
>What she does doesn't go very far from average Gensokyoan.
What she does, doesn't. But unlike most Gensokyans who own their self-interest and faults, Byakuren tries (and fails spectacularly to keep on) a veneer of benevolence. Call Miko self-centred, and she'll shrug and agree, as such is the Way. Call Marisa a thief, and she'll give a half-arsed excuse that may as well be a running joke at this point. Call Yukari a trickster, and she'll laugh in your face - right before tying your shoestrings together and gapping your left pinky into a spinstress's needle pouch.

But call Byakuren what she demonstrably IS, and she'll have the gall to take offence and pretend you're the one at fault. Or outright refuse to talk about it - like she does during the Symposium.

It's this behaviour that I loathe on a personal level.

>>44256571
That Hecatia is the strongest in Gensokyo.
It could've been some respectable 2hu like Yukari, Yuuka, Eiki, Eirin, or even Mima. But no, it had to be the dork with the stupid T-shirt.
Thank you ZUN for ruining power level debates forever.

>>44264074
This guy gets it.
We can meme all we want about team Buddhists vs team Taoists, but if someone actually prefers the band of barely controlled monsters to the selfish prince on any level beside personal taste, I'd like to hear the reasoning.

>>44264117
Not really a bad thing imo.
ofc we all know #2 is Yuuka, that just goes without saying.

>>44264117
I actually like the implication that Hecatia is so much above anyone on Gensokyo, as she is from the outside, it lets us wonder just what else haven't we seen yet, y'know?

>>44264125
For most, I have to assume the answer is simply that they're hotter.

>>44264117
Why's that so offensive? Gensokyo is and has always been an old folks' home/nature preserve for youkai and gods too weak or too lazy to maintain their presence in the Outside World. Anything that does - and does so successfully - would by default be more puissant than most of Gensokyo's denizens.

>>44264117
>ruining power level debates forever
thank god for that

>>44264045
Just how bad is ZUN's relationship with his kids for him to do that.

>>44264142
Hecatia fucks ass (in a good way)

>>44264074
I mean I guess it's true at some level, but you know that the dialogue besides the main topic in SoPM are meant to be humor, right? While it does highlight that they are somewhat ignorant (like Kanako also tried waving off the SA incident), I don't think it's meant to present concrete characterization that'd put them at extreme moral spectrum.
ZUN made the characters not admitting faults because it's funny, that's all.

>>44264117
But Hecatia isn't from Gensokyo. She was introduced as a character who can go up against the Lunarians, who had long been established as being well beyond anything Gensokyo could throw at them, so it's only natural that one of their actual enemies would vastly outclass Yukari and company. She's part of a wholly different ecosystem, which also involves hell, in this case, where one of its lesser members, Eiki, was already presented as stronger than most of the youkai.
Gensokyo is just kind designed to be like a small pond, with an ocean outside of it.

>>44264200
Hecc fucks (My) ass

>>44264218
You don't know that.

>>44264241
Heca futa real

>>44264242
It's like when Remi threaten to kill Reimu in EoSD. It's banter!

>>44264218
I take it as it's given. Anything else is speculation.

You also can't dismiss her actions in ULiL, where she needlessly prolongs the Urban Legend incident and refuses a working solution simply because she wants the Myouren Temple to have the glory of solving the incident... which, I remind you, remains unsolved to this day.

>>44264282
Is that a fucking Gta mod?

>>44264282
Anon I............

>>44264283
I think that's just the problem of reading the narrative, anon.
>You also can't dismiss her actions in ULiL
I dunno, is ULiL incident that bad?
Sumi wasn't severely punished for her crimes of breaking the barrier.

>>44264125
I don't think it's fair to compare an entire group to one leader, especially since that group is so much bigger and purposefully disparate. You gotta remember that ZUN wasn't that familiar with Taoism when he made TD which is probably why he opted to add more to the familiar Myouren Temple.
I bet if he leveled the playing field with Taoists you'd see a similar level of chaos from them.

>>44264032
>why can't remi?
I have a feeling that despite ZUN more or less staying in the dark about what the fans are doing with characters (less so today because fatmario keeps telling him things), he probably knew something about people's tendency to make remi this charismatic, powerful character (her small appearance in FS is like this too, actually) and he wanted to make it less overt, which is why her appearances in Lotus Eaters were specifically to remind you that she has the mind and taste of a child and sakuya has to more or less take care of her like a parent, then CDS came along and made it more explicit by having her not understand anything that was happening and needing it explained by everyone else while flan understood more than she did
in short, I think the point was to show that she IS a child and should be treated like one from time to time

>>44264315
It's only the most high profile incident in the series' history that paved the way for another, more covert, but potentially catastrophic one.

>>44264651
>paved the way for another, more covert, but potentially catastrophic one.
Which is?

>>44264665
Why don't you play the games and find out?

>>44264673
Or you could just not be annoying and answer the question.
I'm not anywhere near ULiL yet.

>>44264665
The Lunar Capital materalization, I think

Because Cirno is retarded, anon. Letty don't have time for that

>>44264125
The Myouren folks has more members and dynamic, and the core members (Shou, Murasa, Ichirin) seem to have strong bond with each other in shared sentiment of serving Byakuren.
On the other hand, while the Taoists are loyal to Miko they have conflict with each other on various degree. Futo-Tojiko rivalry, Seiga whom Miko doesn't really wanna associate with, Yoshika who only follow Seiga, etc.

>>44264566
It's funny how the image you posted shows the original small Myouren group already misbehaving but I digress; in terms of groups I'd actually concede that the Buddhists are marginally better(minus the chance of running into a particularly wicked Yokai, but if named characters are our concern then this isn't a real problem), mainly because within their ranks isn't one of the only characters described as actually freaking evil.
But in terms of leaders, Miko is still miles better than Byakuren, I will die on this hill.

>>44264875
I was talking more about discussions of which side is right or wrong (well, I guess it should be which one is less wrong), not which side was more developed.
In that case, Byak wins 10/10, a fact that as someone who prefers the Taoists barely hidden aggression towards one another to be funny af, annoys me.
Couldn't even let us keep Kokoro...

>>44264929
It's kinda hard to discuss right and wrong because the series doesn't make explicit and clear distinction of them, so at best we just relate it with our own's personal values.
Like, you can say Miko is the most right from humancentric view, but to Gensokyo which goal is to preserve the status quo, between the religious leaders who hold their own opinion in reforming Gensokyo, I think Miko is the farthest from agreeing with its values.

>>44265022
Whether her values contradict those of Gensokyo, it is undeniable that a self-centered leader of troupe of squabbling folks is better than a liar and a group of monsters, at least to the average man.

when reimu thinks marisa is dead, not really caring about it and just starts digging (or that was just a joke and it didn't happen)

>>44264630
While I can definitely see that she is, it seems like people in universe and outside it that while her default state is that of a girl, she's also able to flip a switch and become a long-lived and knowledgeable woman/vampire mistress like when Ran showed up about the moon trip and Remi called her on the bullshit. Just like Flan being more, much more, than just some sad little toddler girl or a murder rapist that plays pop goes the weasel. It's been twenty years. I just want more fleshing out for my wife and the rest of the cast I'm fond of besides Flumf.

>>44265090
I get the feeling that Reimu wouldn't stop herself from killing Marisa if she stepped too far out of line. She's a highly dangerous useful idiot.

>>44265090
>>44265132
I think you can see in most of the print works that marisa is always significantly more concerned about reimu than reimu is about marisa
When seiga shows up in WaHH and drops marisa into a hole, reimu doesn't really look that worked up about it. When reimu dies from eating moldy food at the end of WaHH, marisa moves hell and earth to get to eientei and get a cure to save her
When marisa sees the smoke making youkai in FS at the hakurei shrine, she speeds over there with a bucket of water while yelling I'LL SAVE YOU REIMU!, but when Marisa gets knocked out later in the manga, both reimu and mamizou (?) Treat it like a joke and pretend she actually died
It's a part of reimu's character to not really be all that hotheaded about the events that affect other people, I think

>>44265161
Actual sociopathic tendencies.

>>44265052
Yeah, that's from human and real world perspective.
But it's fiction. How much being a liar and keeping monsters are bad depends on how the narrative plays it. Realistically solving dispute through violence are cruel and inhuman but I don't think that's how Touhou player should feel.

>>44265052
Miko, I dunno how you're getting internet over there, but surely there's better things to do than proselytizing on a Burmese basket weaving forum?

>>44265222
First of all I am NOT Toyosatomimi no Miko, legendary Prince Shoutoku, so dispel those foolish notions at once.
Second, if The Crown Prince were to use 4channel.org to spread the way of the Tao, it'd be ingenious and something a dirty demon nun could NEVER think of.
And third, have you considered following the teaching of Taoism?

>>44256571
That Yukari has her business in everything.
It ruins any mystery behind her character when she shows up personally for basically mundane events. I can get personally involving herself with Reimu since she gets her kicks out of that, but why bother with anyone else that she doesn't have a relationship with. The Perfect Possession event in 14.5 is a case of why the fuck is she there in every heroine's route when Ran could do it; you don't need Yukari just as a tutorial on how to use your slave to dodge certain bullets. Impossible Spellcard is another good example, why does she need to go off and chase Seija herself when she can nap it off until Ran comes back with a sack of amanojaku? Ran's character at this point only exists to be her proxy and keep a veil of mystique on the master, but ZUN never uses her in times when Ran would be more than enough, so why do we have Ran at all? Why have a servant that can act as your proxy, and be as strong as you are, if you're not going to use her for more than errands? It makes Ran's current characterization hurt so much more since she is incapable of doing anything without orders. Like ffs ULiL would have been a great game for Ran to belong in with Kokkuri-san as her urban legend.

>>44256571
I hate how all the official print works are wasted potential to flesh out character relationships and world building.

>>44265251
Thanks, but the taoist hermit lifestyle sounds like hell so I'll pass.

>>44262468
Yeah...but dem tits...

>>44262349
>>44262526
All Fortune Teller had to do was some sort of gender bending magic and turn himself into a cute girl and he wouldn't have been killed.

>>44265320
He is giving his artists a break by not having them spend a long time drawing Ran's many tails over and over again.

>>44262956
This and how ZUN always depict bird youkai in general to be forgetful because "lol birdbrain". It's funny with Okuu, but Mystia and Kutaka also having similiar disposition gets old when he could have emphasized more unique personality on them.
And also how Meiling act cold toward Sakuya in CDS. That's quite a bummer but I hope it's only one-time for the manga or part of Ginmokusei's liberty and not carried to future depiction if they get a chance to appear again.

>>44265161
>It's a part of reimu's character to not really be all that hotheaded about the events that affect other people, I think
but reimu seemed very worried both times kosuzu disappeared

>>44265161
>>44265191
Even more evidence on who best protagonist really is

>>44256571
what would happen if Letto happened to walk in on Cirno while she is busting some otaku's balls?

Would she help Cirno?

>>44265568
Certain birds like ravens and crows are highly intelligent in real life, so if anything Aya and Okuu should be at the top of the Gensokyo intelligence chart. Okuu didn't come off to me as dumb in SA at all, at least.

>>44265523
that is no excuse considering they also have to draw the hats and clothing of 2hus, and besides, the artists should feel privileged to draw Ran-shama's soft fluffy tails

>>44265320
>>44265803
I agree it's just silly how little Ran has appeared, makes you wonder what she even does, or if she just does some really tedious and/or easy tasks in the background.
Unless Yukari just made Ran use an illusion to look like her, thus being a perfect proxy and the only time we've truly seen Yukari was in PCB and maybe a few other cases. But I doubt ZUN has planned anything like that.

>>44265922
Yukari relied on Ran and Chen to count and check every single spirits in the netherworld in CDS. I guess Ran's job is miscellaneous stuff that'd be way too much work for Yukari to do alone, like measuring or collecting huge number of data. She's the secretary that does all the paperwork and other process of the job while Yukari's out to make big decisions and results.

>>44265568
>worry everything's
>not okay!
Worrying.

>>44265758
In Sanae's fight in Hisoutensoku, she forgot who Kanako was, and when she was defeated, forgot why she was fighting Sanae. Her section in SoPM also refers to her as empty headed.

The existence of Okina, period.

>>44256571
Let me put it this way: there is ZERO fanwork that makes me want to punch Aya in the face as much as her canon appearance in printed work does. Fucking Mamizou is a lot more charming than whenever canon Aya opens her mouth.

>>44262847
>justifiable
tick tock, hijiri.
samsara is waiting...

>>44265161
reimu is an ogress
but I digress

>>44266762
Mamizou has friends and is always chilling with different people like Mokou so it makes sense, not even Aya's own race likes her

>>44264283
>ULiL
Meh, almost everyone in that game didn't realize the true nature of Urban Legend BALLS and only Kasen and Mamizou together that were able to trap the culprit and resolve the BALLS problem

>>44266761
>t. engu

Yukari must be exterminated, and unlike Touhou, in real life entities like her shatter permanently when they die, rather than persisting in an energetic "soul" form. Good, as evil cannot be allowed an afterlife.

>>44267192
Well, that's to be expected, at any rate. It's natural that a Tanuki would be an expert on balls.

>>44265320
>Perfect Possesion
The technique is pretty dangerous if it's used to wreak havoc in Gensokyo so her intervention is pretty understandable, especially since she actually didn't know jackshit about it
>Impossible Spellcard
I don't think you should take that game literally and seriously, the game is just an excuse for ZUN to make new spell card for old characters
>ULiL
I mean, the lack of both Yakumo's action in that game is pretty weird too desu. The barrier is at risk of completely destroyed and the eternal moonshit's scheme of smuggling their ball amongst the urban legend ball and yet both of them didn't lift a single finger about it, unless Yukari actually sure that Kasen as a fellow sage could handle the crisis by herself and probably to give her a chance to find her arm in the Outside World

>>44267317
>and the eternal moonshit's scheme of smuggling their ball amongst the urban legend ball
This honestly would make the most sense. Considering Yukari jobbed to the moonies twice, and the ULiL Incident was a lot more high profile, if we assume she knew about that, then it would make sense for her to not want to get involved for risk of her reputation being damaged.

>>44267317
>Perfect Possession
Yukari already knew who the culprits of the incident were and was only looking to figure out a counter, which is why IIRC she was alone since Joon and Shion can't switch without a master/slave on the other side. Still you could replace Yukari with Ran for most of the game and it would hardly change the plot, then switch in Yukari for the Reimu-Yukari end when she's ready to take her part. Then you could have Yukari and Ran as a master/slave pair for multiplayer.
>Impossible Spellcard
About the same reason as other spinoffs like the picture games, new reasons to use old characters but this time there was a plot going. In terms of appearances, Ran got jack diddly squat and is only a spellcard boss in StB and VD and is an accessory everywhere else with a couple of lines of dialogue total. Meanwhile Yukari appears as Reimu's sidekick in IN and SA, a playable character and boss in several fighting games, appearances as a boss in StB and VD, and all this with heaps of dialogue.
>ULiL
Agreed. Fucking with the barrier with a sprinkling of moonies is a very good reason to bring Yukari out in the first place, and add that with Ran fitting the urban legend theme. Yet they're both completely absent. With >>44267360 in mind, even if she wanted to save face on her reputation, she still has the option to be subtle about it. Which would give more credence for using a proxy to keep tabs on things without being directly involved. And besides, her prior encounters with the moonies came out to be "hue hue all according to keikaku." At least Ran's exasperation of Yukari's jobbing through Silent Sinner in Blue and Cage in Lunatic Runagate made up for it a little.

The problem with Ran's appearance is that it depends on Yukari being proactive at stirring shit, because if there's an incident in Gensokyo it's either managable for Reimu and her friends to solve it themselves or severe enough for Yukari to get personally involved. That's why Ran's notable appearances are only in PCB and SSiB when Yukari is the source of the problem

>>44267416
>Still you could replace Yukari with Ran for most of the game and it would hardly change the plot
Not really, Yukari needs to investigate with her own eyes and her reputation as douchebag making her opponent to unintentionally spill the bean

>>44267055
Aya may be the most relatable character in the series actually, man this thread really took off lol

>>44267416
Yukari's depiction in SSiB made me hate her for the remaining of the series, I really am not a fan of smug characters that are always pulling the strings in the background or whatever, another reason for why Okina is shit since she is just Yukari 2

>>44267715
Gensokyo being what it is, a smug mastermind character was an inevitability, though I think the fact that Yukari isn't actually that much of a mastermind does give her character some depth.

As for Okina, I think it'd be better to call her Yukari 0, as in-universe context would seem to imply that Yukari is just trying to emulate her way of doing things. (and consistently failing pretty horribly at that.)

>>44267796
Renko would be so dissapointed.

>>44267715
Damn I love manipulative women

>>44267855
Hag on hag crime

>>44266953
meanwhile, later in the same manga

>>44268014
That's just funny

>>44268014
Bro it's just Marisa

>>44268064
Thats what happens when u are a thief in denial Marisa, u get abyused

>A sociopathic shrine maiden
>A cannibal maid who is also retarded
>A half dead DORK
>A millennial
>A cowardly bunny
Do you guys see now why Mari-chan is the best protag?

>>44268840
a punching bag

>>44268840
Youmu isn't half-dead.

>>44268882
this was really just unnecessary, even the main "villain" only knocked her out, here Flan is just torturing her, does ZUN love Marisa suffering that badly?

>>44268911
She's gonna be once I'm done with her if you can catch my meaning

>>44268956

>>44268956
Human is inferior over youkai
ZUN only give her a reminder

>>44268963
No, I don't.

>>44265022
>I think Miko is the farthest from agreeing with its values.
Not entirely true. Miko, while naturally biased toward an anthropocentric view, is very quick on the uptake and instantly grasps the situation once it's actually explained to her during the Symposium. Thereafter, she rescinds her plans to govern the Human Village, which had been her intention up until that point (as it would've been the obvious choice from her under-informed perspective).

And, while you could argue that this displays a degeneration of Miko's values, it isn't really so. Wei Wu Wei prescribes natural action; Miko would've been a natural fit for a leadership position, but in the presence of adversity from youkai and gods of Gensokyo, it's clear that this position is elsewhere. Miko still keeps her doors open for prospective Taoists. Akyuu describes her attitude as dismissive, but... that's how Taoism works. It's on YOU to find YOUR path; Miko will not teach you in any traditional sense; you may only learn via osmosis. Which is too much for Gensokyo's (purposely conditioned to be) complacent populace.

Incidentally, that may also be the reason why Miko doesn't resolve the Urban Legend incident. She could easily have done that, but Byakuren's adversity (and ultimate victory in their bout) indicated this was not the Way. And she isn't going to force it, because, well, that'd be against the very tenets of her religion.

Nevertheless, and to summarise, I don't think Miko "disagrees" with Gensokyo's values. Her Way is to find a natural niche, and she has done just that. For everyone else, it should be their decision to change, improve or maintain their own, personal situation. Whether they be human, god or youkai.

>>44268840
>A kleptomaniacal, pathological liar witch
I'll take the cute green-haired millenial girl (that is also a living god) any day of the week, thank you very much.

>>44268840
ZUN probably never considered Reisen a main girl, 8 years of absence, and then replaced her with another rabbit

>>44270075
I mean yeah she was only in LoLK because it was a perfect fit for her, I doubt we will see much of her in the future.

>>44266762
>>44267055
aya may be a shitter, but come on
it is obvious these were posted by tanuki minions. stupid mary sue.

>>44267715
being smug just because your ghost friend plans and solves everything for you is really lame...

>>44256571
That Ran is not the kitsune, but a spirit possessing the kitsune, who is implied to be conscious and resisting.

>>44270278
that's just the difference between a Tanuki boss and a Tengu grunt

>>44270403
>who is implied to be conscious and resisting.
Wow, that's almost exactly the opposite of what's actually implied!

>>44266762
Yeah, fanworks are just completely off-base when it comes to Aya.

>>44270191
Which is sad because she's a way better written character than Sakuya/Youmu/Sanae, whom we see all the time.

>>44270362
?

>>44270772
Anon the same argument can be made about Reimu and Marisa plus Sakuya and Youmu are also characters that you dont see that often and Sanae is best girl.
As much as I want more crackpot characters to lead a story Zun just wouldnt know how tf to write them I fear.

>>44270818
>Sakuya and Youmu are also characters that you dont see that often
And yet we saw them in the last two mainline games, both ongoing manga, grimoire of usami, and on the cards in 18. Meanwhile, the only appearance Reisen got since AoCF was in CDS. So yeah, not a great look.

>>44270913
Anon it took 4 games for youmu and sakuya to be playable again, and mind you Zun uses them because he designed them to be protagonist's.

I want another team game like IN

>>44272081
Maybe in touhou 21, touhou 20 will be a soft reboot with only Reimu and Marisa as playable with multiple shoottypes (it wont)

>>44270009
Discussing with Sanae new recent consoles like the ps2 or the wii!

>>44272732
With current consoles being what it is, I think I'd much prefer that.

>>44272732
Playing a comfy touhou fangame in the ps2.....

>>44272732
Playing with Sanae the last Metal Gear game, MGS2!

>>44273431
there's a touhou metal gear fangame that looks like a ps2 game and plays like a ps1 game out there
it's called CODE R: Gensoukyou Yori Ai Okomete

>>44256571
Cirno doesn't deserve yokai rights

>>44269897
Thank you Taoistbro
I doubt ZUN thought that far but this is a good and plausible answer

>>44273637
will check it out thx anon!

>>44272732
I'd love to play Half-Life Decay on the PS2 with Sanae

>>44273637
Uh, anon, have you been living under a rock or something? MGS2 came out ages ago.
Sanae is really looking forward to MGS4, though. It's finally going to resolve all of MGS2's remaining cliffhangers.

>>44268956
That's just a recurring thing with Marisa. She gets pushed around since she's the most "ordinary" protagonist, but still does relatively well despite everything. No supernatural blood, no inherited power, just stubborn determination.

>>44280512
the P things look like censored guts from afar, amazing.

I hate how boring story modes scenarios are in the figthers and how badly ZUN botched Tenshi's character.
It really is nigth and day between the more mature and deinty SWR Tenshi to AoCF lolified and cirnofied Tenshi.

i hate that i fear that sakuya is willing to just sit idle for 80ish years for a fucking flower

>>44265507
Yeah he should have pulled out the miko card

>>44265191
Yukari is going to have to abduct some outsider to get Reimu a husband and continue the Hakurei line

>>44283204
>AoCF
... weren't they all polar opposites of themselves? That game was a real spinoff in terms of story.
I wouldn't hold much of it as cannon other than the deplorable misers making an appearance. I don't know.

>>44285927
>weren't they all polar opposites of themselves
only a few, and only toward the end
the tenshi that appears in joon and shion's route is the dream world version, but the normal tenshi shows up for most of the game before that
I think what we saw there was the difference between the bored to tears, desperate for some entertainment tenshi from SWR to the more carefree tenshi in AoCF
that said, ZUN was writing WaHH tenshi after that where she showed both sorts of personality, so I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that AoCF botched her character

>>44283587
Another reason for why she is best girl.
I hate that Saki is apparently short in canon.

>>44256571
Yukari being evil for evil's sake with no substance
I'd still mating press impregnate her if I had the chance though

>>44295132
Yukari does at least have a consistent MO for her evil acts, but most of it just appears to be maintaining control and the status quo. Her true character isn't something she exactly allows to shine through often, but it exists.

Doesn't excuse her actions, of course, nor make her any less fuckable.

>>44295132
I'm necessary evil.

[spoilers]I 100% believe Yukari is Maribel and does still have some goodness in her, even if her humanity has waned a bit[/spoilers]

>>44295132
The US prison population is around 1.2 million. There's enough serial killers and rapists here alone to feed Gensokyo by being gapped in for 10,000 years.
Ran and Chen are a bit of a grey area. Its not known whether or not they willingly became Shikigami, or if they were antagonistic enough to deserve it as punishment.
Yukari stealing shit is just her being a troll, which isn't bad at all IMO, especially since she does take care of Reimu and others.

>>44295372
Yukari only kills people like you who do not know to ctrl+s.

>>44295648
I will never die.

>>44270772
In what way is she better written? What is apparently so different about her compared to the other 3?

>>44256571
Eiki/Kutaka shit. Ruined the Komachi and Eiki dynamic.

>>44302054
"my fanon > their fanon" is not a valid complaint

>>44302120
Yes it is. Fuck you I make the rules

>>44302054
Because Eiki is now depicted with the dignity she always had? She no longer exists only to be bullied by cowtits? Your angry loli headcanon was destroyed?

>>44302132
Wait fuck it was like that? God damnit i've really been out of 2hu for that long.

I think the worst one really has to be anything related to certain ones being retarded (Utsuho/Yuyuko/Cirno).

>>44302054
Komachi likes to spend more time with the hermit than that bitch

>>44301844
You mean, aside from the fact that she has an actual expanded backstory that gets referenced in later appearances, has a character arc, and has personality outside of just being a servant?
She's the underdog who gets bullied by everyone, but wants to fight back, except that she can't because she's a coward. That's a compelling dilemma right there.
Now tell me, do the other 3 have anything like that?

>>44305420
Youmu also does have a backstory that gets referenced & a personality outside of being a servant as well.

>>44306336
Elaborate.

>>44306385
Her whole backstory with Youki and the mystery behind him suddenly disappearing, leaving Youmu to train for herself. Even as she fights Suika in the fighting game they bring up Youki and his teaching.

And her personality should be obvious. She's a retarded funny dork whether with or without Yuyuko, and she's also obsessed but very passionate about her swordsmanship (especially in earlier games). You could even say that she's had a bit of character development throughout the series, at first people doubted her abilities to solve incidents to the point Yuyuko would fight Youmu to prevent her from investigating incidents multiple times, but in recent appearances people take her skills and roles more seriously and she seemingly doesn't even need Yuyuko's "permission" to go outside the Netherworld anymore.

You can call Reisen better and more fleshed out if you want, but that doesn't mean 2hus like Youmu are flat doormats with no character

>>44265758
Utsuho should be an outlier regardless, she was chosen for being as empty headed as possible after all so even if crows were depicted as smart she wouldn't be.