/jp/ - Otaku Culture

New theory involves a pony and the moon.

I saw a theory the other day saying that Erika is piece beato.. Personally I don't think she exists.

>finally realized just how fucking insane

What? Shannon isn't insane! Beatrice is an endless witch who likes to play tricks on people, and Kanon is a loving and protective little brother.

You obviously lack love, so you cannot see.

most people came to the same conclusion long ago OP

>>4422727
The truth must be shown, but that truth is not yours

>>4422745
she has the 3rd best fanart

>>4422692
Shkanon + Erika not existing = revival of the Pony Theory

Only works if the extra person somehow inherited the name "Kinzo", though.

>>4422713
> Erika being piece Beato
That... would actually be deliciously ironic if true. Albeit also totally fucking crazy.

>>4422814
Erika exists in episode 5 and 6, I don't know where you guys got your theory but it just doesn't work.
She also didn't exist prior to episode 5, piece Beato did, they aren't the same perso.

>>4422836
> Erika exists in episode 5 and 6, I don't know where you guys got your theory but it just doesn't work.
I find it highly unlikely as well, but a lot of people seem to think it's a possibility, so might as well make a theory with it. The more theories you make, the more likely you are to come up with one that's close to the truth.

>>4422842
Well they can do whatever they want but this:
# Furudo Erika only increases it by one person.
# Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.

Completely kill their theory, just saying.

Shipwreck > Erika wakes up next to Kinzos rotten corpse > Erika trolling

In episode 7 Erika will find the truth and resurrect just like Battler did.

>>4422874
Everyone will find it. Trollkastel is good GM.

Enjoy your higurashi cast furniture.

>>4422743

not everyone, there are still people who think jessitrice is a viable alternative.

As far as I see it, Shannon either made up Kanon, or there actually was a Kanon who died sometime before October 4th, and Shannon just imagines him or dresses like him.

Kanon's body is never found, and Kanon and Shannon are never seen together by Battler, so there has to be something to that unless Ryu07 is God-level troll.

Since Shannon has questionable death status in several episodes, it could be that she is faking it somehow or has a body double that is either Kanon (if hes real), another servant (Runon?), or the girl who washes up on the island (Erika).

And since Jessica has a crush on Kanon, if he's imaginary then Jessica has to either be oblivious to Shannon's cross dressing or playing pretend with Shannon out of either pity or loneliness.

Either way, It adds up to Shannon having a very fractured psyche.

Only problem with Kanon being real is how the red uses his name, I'm guessing there's some sort of trick in there.

>>4422889
> or there actually was a Kanon who died sometime before October 4th, and Shannon just imagines him or dresses like him.
Doesn't work.

# The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
# A different person cannot claim his name!

Basically, if Shkanon is true, Kanon would have to have been a part of Shannon from the beginning.

>>4422889
>Kanon and Shannon are never seen together by Battler
Kanon and Shannon are both seen together by the detective in Ep 5.

>>4422920
This can easily be solved by Siamese twins.

>>4422885
>Implying Dlanor appeared in Higurashi

>>4422938
Bern was not GM in EP 5 and 6

>>4422928
Really? Who said so? Oh right, Battler said so. And it just so happens that Battler wasn't the detective in Episode 5.

so if shkanon isn't true and erika not existing doesn't work, we're essentially back to square one

>>4422949
No "I" was used in those scenes, so you can't conclude that Battler narrated.

>>4422966
Don't tell me you trust the third-person narration in those scenes. Because the third-person narration is no more reliable than Battler's narration was in Episode 5.

You can only use red and gold.
Everything else could be bull.

It's a question of POV, not narration.
Scene was seen from Battler's POV.

>>4422920
>>4422889

There seems to be a lot of hints suggesting Kanon isn't real, which, if your interpretation of the red is correct, means that Shannon made up Kanon long before and was severely messed up in the head even before she came to the island.

Then kinzorape and broken promise drove her way beyond the edge, my poor meido ;_;

You can solve everything with Shkanon or Shkanontrice if you want to play easymodo. If you really want them to be separate people it's possible to solve just about everything with either Kanontrice or Shanontrice.

>>4423045
Except the 17 vs 18 red text of episode 6.

Jessica and Shannon playing pretend is the best thing to come out of Umineko.

>>4423048
If they're two people in one body, it does.
They wouldn't be one person, but they would be one human body, therefore not violating any red.
Beatrice just has to be the alias of one of the two, as alias =/= person.

>>4423218
'sup kanon

>>4423218
they finally did it, then
thi is the reason beatrice is hotter than any other female ion the island

>>4423218

>see thumbnail
>expect delicious Jessica
>open pic
>pic related

Easy modo: Shkanontrice or Moon-chan + Shkanontrice.

Normal mode: Jessitrice + Shkanon or Doubletrice

Hard mode: Teatrice or Kanontrice, Shkanon denied.

Lunatic mode: Shkanon denied, Erika dont exist, Jessica was really dead in EP2, The servants are not helping the culprit, Kanon is a boy.

>>4423218
Beatrice wins.

>>4423277
Casual or beginner: Magic exists

>>4423277
Lunatic does not actually explain what happens though.

>>4423304
I think it means inventing something ORIGINAL

>>4423304
Er...modes are gameplay difficulties not answers.

>>4422673
Stop spamming AɳoɳTalk.com with your stupid shit.

>>4423310
So, credible theories that work and many people can reach the conclusion following story and leads are easy mode, while just denying credible solutions and having no explanation shows you are hardcore.
Brilliant.

>>4423322

Looks like you got it.

>>4423218
This picture made me realize one of the most fucking obvious hints. I wonder how I missed it all along...

Tattoo on leg

>>4423322
Finding a answer following Shkanontrice is easy.
Finding a answer following Jessitrice is a bit harder.
Finding a answer without Shkanon is even harder.
Finding a answer without Shkanon, Shannontrice, Kanontrice, Jessitrice or the servants helping is a hardcore task.

I dont see any logic problems here.

>>4423343
on the OTHER one

>>4423343
Casualfag detected

Shannon's one is different and is on the other leg.

>>4423346
Kyrie did it!
i wish we still believed ;_;

>>4423346
but the servants help, they're actually needeed, with solid reasons and is actually impossible that they aren't helping at all
at least kumasawa and nanjo, maybe genji too

>>4423343

It's not a tattoo.

>>4423346
That's like saying trying to do a puzzle picture of the Parthenon using the pices of the Eiffel picture is hardcore.

>>4423347
>>4423352
<Good> But you don't know if she has another one in the other leg, do you? One of the two tattoos on her legs can be fake. How is that?!

>>4423218
It's a shame Battler gave up and became furniture in Episode 2. Then he'd be able to verify if that tattoo was fake or not while undressing her.

>>4423371
nothing poining that the tatoo is a fake
if we are talking about tatoos, why don't we talk of why is battler the only one with the ushiromiya sign on his right side pointing at his right? he's the only one (both Eva and Jessica's point to their left normally, only look like that because their arm)

>>4423371

>>4423371
Shannon persona has tattoo on one leg.
Kanon persona has it on the other*.

Whoever has the same tattoo as Beatrice is her.
At least, that's what it looks like to me.

*One of them is printed on Shannon's stockings and is fake.

>>4423396
sometimes DEEN reminds me of Gainax

>>4423371
It takes us to point zero.
Anyone could use a fake tatoo.

>>4423362
Why are they needed? yes its heavily implied that they are in it but its never stated in red that they are in the killings.

Also nobody proved ''solid motives'' for anyone in Umineko as far as i know. People just keep on discussing who's Beatrice without even thinking about motives(except for ''SHE'S FUCKING CRAZY'').

>>4423367
No, its just harder to go in a new way of thinking without relying in old and overused ones.
Jessitrice fags did ONE good thing: they went into the game and rereaded it looking for a new explanation that is not the one that people (most of them that dont even like the game at all) keep on shoving in their throats.

Lunatic mode would be ''dont take anything for granted and try to find new ways to solve the mystery''.

''Be creative''. Just that.

>>4423396

>>4423408
>rereaded

>>4423397
You just said that personas magically grown tatoos?

There is no indication of Kanon having a tatoo at all, and Shannon's and Beatrice's tattos are different, go look for images and figure it yourself.

>>4423396
I see...if that tattoo is fake, it's horribly inconvenient if they run into a situation like that. Stockings that don't snag must be a miracle for a maid.

>>4423408
>>Also nobody proved ''solid motives'' for anyone in Umineko as far as i know. People just keep on discussing who's Beatrice without even thinking about motives(except for ''SHE'S FUCKING CRAZY'').
Her motive is easy to understand if you read the monologue of episode 6, remember that Maria was a big part of what make Beatrice that way and look at the way she always urge the people of the island to find the gold.

>>4423408
Except re-reading it from start leads 8/10 to established shit.
The fact that theer are already too many fucking theories makes something smell rotten in Denmark.

>>4423424
So easy that nobody even explained why Shkanontrice would commit murder without relying in clichés like ''KINZORAPE''.

>>4423425
If you read anything with a solid theory in your mind you will only see it, this shit about ''without love it cannot be seen'' isnt there for no reason.

>>4423421
I don't think she wears stockings

>>4423447
Cause clearly everyone else did not, right?

>>4423447
To bring everyone to the golden land, it's as simple as that.
I don't even think that she was raped but she was definitely was heavily influenced by Kinzo.

She probably think she is doing a good deed by bringing everyone to the golden land where everyone can be happy.
She also most likely shared her intention with Maria, which is why Maria is never surprised about the events, for her it's the only way to live happily ever after with her mother.

>>4423397
>implying completely transparent stockings exist (worse yet, existed at the time Umineko takes place), let alone ones that somehow perfectly show a printed area on them yet nothing else.

How would she even put them on if they are invisible?

>>4423466
So one retarded woman axes everyone in the mansion and a retarded kid taht could clue them in keeps UUUUing waiting to be happy with Mama, since MAGIC WORKS.
Fantastic.

>>4423419
>You just said that personas magically grown tatoos?
In a magical context, they're different people. So yes. Realistically, it would be symbolic.

I'm not saying the real body has two tattoos that magically switch places whenever one personality is active over the other. I'm saying she could have the same tattoo as Beatrice's and have the other be false.

But it's more likely that Shannon's tattoo is the real deal.

>There is no indication of Kanon having a tatoo at all
If Shannon has a tattoo on a leg, and Beatrice's is on the other, who else hypothetically would have a tattoo on the opposite leg?
It's kind of how a set of twins wear different color hair accessories on different sides of their head.

>>4423472
>>So one retarded woman axes everyone in the mansion and a retarded kid taht could clue them in keeps UUUUing waiting to be happy with Mama, since MAGIC WORKS.
Yes.

What do you as motive?
We know that Beatrice doesn't kill for greed, revenge, hatred or to make them fear her.
We know that Maria was a huge part in what "shaped" Beatrice.
We know that Maria truly believes in the golden land.

>>4423474
I love how you think twins in anime and games are accurate to real life.

>>4423483
I am not saying the motive is wrong, just that from a narrative perspective is retarded.

>>4423486
Cause this is REAL life we discuss, right?

Shannon maybe insane but Rosa is fucking cruel.

>>4423491
I was just calling you a moron for that statement, not the point you were making, so what we're talking about is irrelevant.

>>4423500
Commenting a quote while disregarding the context is tupid though.

>>4423506
Not when what I'm commenting about has no relation to the content even in it's original context.

>>4423506

I'm not sure you know who you're talking to.

>>4423483
Yes so she created a golden land in her head and keeps on killing everyone so they can go there?

Man, you dont even wanna think, the motive is ''Love'' as implicit stated, but Love =/= Mental problems

>>4423546
She has DID, of course she has some heavy mental problems.
And yeah bringing everyone to the golden land is her form of love.

What other motive could you see that would fulfill the LOVE thing?

Umineko: A tale about a Meido with 4 (or more) different personalitys, that kill people because in her delusions everyone will go to a golden land when they die. Even as insane as she is she's clever enough to create dozens of closed rooms and eliminates all the evidence that could solve the murder case, even in the future.

Disregard all other plots involved in the story, they were red herrings LOL

>>4423568
Bomb cleanses all the evidences for her.
And her closed rooms aren't clever, they just use her whole I AM 3 PERSONS AT THE SAME TIME setting extensively.

>>4423563
Why do you even read this shit if you dont love it to a minimum? Seriously, are you a troll, a animefag or just a ragefull NEET that hates everything and wants everything to suck?

You simply lack love. Even if DID was accepted and not just a dumb theory, it wouldnt be like that. Its Umineko, not CSI.

>>4423568
Remember when Villains where good?

>>4423585
I just want to solve Umineko, faggot.
Stop only thinking about what you want and try to think about what Ryuukishi was trying to tell with his tale.

You don't look at it with love at all, you just bring your own delusion into it, refusing to see anything that could go against your theories.

>>4423592
Remember when everyone thinked that Higurashi was just about everyone being psycho batshit killer lolis?

>>4423592
They still will be.
Milf did it.

>>4423592
Her motive fucking sucked.

>>4423598
Hardly

>>4423592
Yes.

>>4423603
she had a pretty good one+traumas

>>4423596
You cant solve it if you dont like it. You are as bad as Erika trying to pin Natsuhi just because it was a easy answer and she didnt like her.

You are the kind of cancer that since the anime was released is killing all umineko threads and transforming it into a storm of shit.

The answer is about love, not about LOLTHEY'RECRAZY. R07 loves their characters and wouldnt make that kind of thing to them. We know it enough because of Higurashi. IT IS the trust between reader and writer.

So how about stopping being a asshole and or joining us in trying to find the truth (seriously) or getting out of Umineko threads forever?

>This thread
>Implying Shkanon isn't already denied by red text

>>4423610
How much I want to read it
Gore looks really funny as a character

>>4423616
So yeah you are a deluded faggot.
And your insistence about bringing the anime there for your retarded ad hominen attacks is seriously laughable.

You should just keep to your shipper threads, honestly.

>>4423621
He is basicly a more violent version of >>4423619

>>4423626
More violence is never bad, also I've seen a youtube video about him, he's a really funny.... whatever he is
If I try to push myself, it can be my next VN

>>4423624
Am i a deluded faggot because i believe the end wont be shitty? How's your time machine? Enjoyed reading the ending in the future?

Im just a real fan of this series, different of you that dont even like it and come in these threads just for the pleasure of being a asshole.

The truth is that /jp/ before the Umineko anime had plenty of good Umineko threads, people here were polite and serious thinked about all the closed rooms and shit. When the anime came, /jp/ was infested with people from /a/ trolling and destroying every Umineko thread ever just because they felt like it.

And im pretty sure you are one of them.

>/jp/ before the Umineko anime had plenty of good Umineko threads
wwwwwwww

>>4423347
>>4423352
When Shanon looks herself in the mirror, it is Beatrice that looks right back at her. The Ushiromiya tatto's feathers point to the right, while Beato's tatto points to the left. Like the refelction in the mirror.

>>4423671
It surely had, and it was only one thread at a time.

>>4423652

>serious thinked

>>4423652
Some butthurt faggot who write like he is on fucking gaia is telling me that I am a newfag from /a/
I'm laughing a lots there.
Seriously, go back to the shithole you came from, /jp/ doesn't need you and your shipper faggotry.

>>4423676
Atacking my grammatical flaws (me being not a native english speaker) doesnt make me wrong, just makes you look more pathetic.

>>4423674
and how do you explain battler's?

>>4423681
Who was talking about ad hominem?
read >>4423682 you butthurt /a/-fag.

How is ep6 closed room solved with Shkanon?
I mean the part about "Kanon isn't in this room".

>>4423674

This is exactly what I was thinking. Although I have a slightly different interpretation.

Think about every single scene transition. A mirror breaking. Then the clock ticking.

The mirror has to be a crucial element to the story, which makes sense if magic is just delusions, the someone (shannon) looking in a mirror will see herself and thus has to break it to be freed from the reality the mirror shows her.

>>4423652
>Im just a real fan of this series

>>4423705
>>4423676
>>4423417
>>4423681
Why samefagging so much? You got DID or something?

Anyway im going to college and will stop answering you my dear loveless fag, just so you might know and dont think in your delusional mind that you ''won something''.

Enjoy your lonely and hatefull life.

>>4423674
Is it possible George killed himself because of that? Shannon's head wound makes it impossible for a stake.

>>4423729
This post shows the current state of /jp/.

I'd take even the TM powerlevel shitstorms again over this shit, at least the people arguing in these threads didn't take themselves seriously.

>>4423729
ha ha ha, oh wow

>>4423742
You know, you are as bad as him.

>>4423751
...How does that work?

>>4423742
>>4423746
You are a sad man

There is no bomb; the boiler simply explodes.

Maria was not the one who taught whoever Beatrice actually is about magic. In all likelihood, she used the books in Kinzo's study as references, possibly without Kinzo's knowledge. She did this because, as a personality, she was created to be the witch Beatrice.

If you want to blame somebody for putting the idea of magic into the original person's head, don't blame Maria, who was taught about magic by Beatrice, not the other way around. Blame Kumasawa, for telling the person stories about Beatrice and the Golden Land.

And, personally, I don't believe that Beatrice, whoever she is, is the culprit. Everything we've been told about Beatrice implies that her piece form is not a mastermind, but a pawn.

...And, hell, since Episode 1 wasn't even the original Rokkenjima, we don't even know what the fuck happened then. For all we know, there were never any killings then, and all that was set up was the boiler explosion. Which, if you think about it, could have been ordered set up by Kinzo before his death.

If, however, there _were_ murders performed on the original Rokkenjima, then the most likely possibilities for culprits/masterminds that I see, at the moment, are Jessica, George, Kyrie, Hideyoshi, and Kinzo (via his will). There's even the possibility that there are multiple factions, each with their own mastermind, that clashed with each other.

SO back on topic: We know someone on the island has to have some extreme mental issue to create such a deep fantasy world.

I think Ryukishi07 designed Jessica to be the red herring to cover Shannon.

I still am not sure if Kanon exists or if that was also a red herring to make us think Shannon was crazy.

But Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice are without a doubt all connected in some way. There are hints every time they talk about hallucinations, voices, magical thinking (definition of delusion there), etc.

So if Shannon loves George, Kanon loves Jessica, and Beatrice loves Battler, does that just mean that the original vessel for Shkanontrice is in love with all of them in some way, or playing a trick on 1, 2, or all 3 of the cousins?

anyone want to take a stab at this?

>>4423791
Oh, right, forgot to mention that neither Shannon nor Kanon are likely to be the original personality. If you go on the idea that the creation of "Beatrice" was a cause of mental instability, it's possible that something that happened at a later point in time caused the original personality to fracture and become Shannon and Kanon.

>>4423797
> does that just mean that the original vessel for Shkanontrice is in love with all of them in some way
No, it means that each persona is in love with a different person. The original persona was probably in love with Battler, but gave that love to Beatrice and at this point either no longer exists or is "sleeping", so to speak.

By the way, guys, somebody corrected parts of the translation of the Beatrice-creation-monologue from EP6 last night.


...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the personality suited to him that he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
Let's split up our one soul and share it.
Each half will naturally be less than one soul.
But surely that will allow us to see more dreams than a person would.
May we be blessed...
My dear Beatrice...

Although no one else can see your form,
at least I can see you.
And if you are loved by many people,
surely everyone else will become able to see you too.
With love, we can see...

>>4423610
What is this?

>>4423810
> With love, we can see...
AGAIN with that. Dammit, Ryukishi!

>>4423821
Episode 6 had Zepar and Furfur repeating the "without love" line multiple times, actually, in relation to the duel.

・紗代→しゃ　よ→SYAYO→愛（Ｉ）がないと視えない→SYAYO＋I→YOSIYA

WITHOUT LOVE IT CANNOT BE SEEN

>>4423827
Personally, I find the Hachijou Touya = Asumu wordplay to be even more interesting.

After this thread, I still can't believe how Shkanontricefags even have the courage to deny Jessitrice. At least Jessitrice is less forced.

>>4423810
>Although no one else can see your form,
at least I can see you.

I've read this translation before, but I keep running in a loop when I try to make sense of it. I'm not sure if Shannon is really Beatrice..something feels off.

Remember in Episode 2 after Eva mocked Shannon when she suspected she was interested in George? Afterwards, she starts cleaning the area in front of Beatrice's portrait. Beatrice appears and Shannon is taken back, like she's never spoken with her before.

>>4423846

>At least Jessitrice is less forced.

...not sure if troll

>>4423846
Jessitrice is both impossible practically and has no foreshadowing whatsoever.
People who support it aren't even trying to solve Umineko.

Beatrice is better at this game than we are what with the retroactively making Erika erase herself from existence without Shkanon and all.

>>4423849
Shannon isn't the original personality.
She may or may not be similar to her, but she isn't.

Whats with the lack of Doubletrice theories?

>>4423853
It has a lot of foreshadowing and it is "less impossible" than Shkanon, only Shkanonfags can't see it.
At the very least, it doesn't go against the red.

>>4423857

This presupposes that the Game Board isn't entirely fixed in position though. Something I'm not sold on just yet.

>>4423849
Shannon isn't the original personality.
It reminds me of Xenogears, in this game you had a character with several personality.
The first one who created all the others is a personality called the "coward".
Because he never go out of his shell, always looking at the memories of his happy days when he was a child deep.
Second personality is ID, a personality who was created to get all the shit memories and pain, it's a personality who is extremely violent and impulsive.
Then you have Fei, a third personality who is pretty much normal.

If the original is a girl named "Sayo", she probably went to "sleep" deep within her psyche.
Beatrice was created to get all the shits.
Shannon and Kanon were created to function normally as servants.

>>4423797
>Kanon loves Jessica
No, there is a lot of evidence that it's nothing more than a red herring to deceive us. You can get from the scenes that Kanon respects and looks up to Jessica, but the love part is all a red herring. What we do know for sure(though Jessitrice faggots like denying it) is that Kanon and Beatrice share a body. I fully support Kanontrice, as Shkanon has too many contradictions and could just as easily be proven wrong in following episodes.

>>4423857
Animesuki being retarded as usual.
Seriously all of these theories are completely stupid.

>>4423849

>Beatrice appears and Shannon is taken back, like she's never spoken with her before

I read that same scene yesterday. The narration said that she had talked to the portrait before when she was feeling sad or just to share stories about her day, but that day the portrait came alive, and it said in plain english that Beatrice had not talked to another human for many years.

Hell, the reason she was there in the first place was because she talked back to Natsuhi when she complained about her moping around. Natsuhi told her she would have no food or sleep until that room was thoroughly cleaned.

I even remember it saying right before Beatrice appears that Shannon "could already feel her thinking being slowed from not eating"

Intepretation: Shannon, with Eva shattering her hopes of loving George and Natsuhi getting mad at her and forcing her to clean the large portrait room, has a very cohesive psychotic break from the stress/anger/etc, with her mind creating Beatrice as a tool to help her with loving George.

I personally think that Beatrice isn't the killer and that she's one of the other servants. Maybe one of the servants that have already retired. In short someone that we haven't seen yet.

>>4423851
No, really. Saying Jessica's corpse =/= corpse of Jessica is much less forced than PERSONAS CAN BE KILLED, 6 BODIES ACTUALLY MEAN 5, SOMETIMES PERSON MEAN BODY OTHER TIMES MEAN PERSONA and shit like that.

>>4423876
Well then again, so are a lot of the theories on /jp/ (and I assume /a/ since I don't browse it) So /jp/ & /a/ = Animesuki.

>>4423878
Well she probably just "summoned" Beatrice from deep within her psyche.
I doubt Beatrice was created for this event.
She probably was created during the events of 6 years ago.

>>4423869

Also, isn't there Red saying that the names refer to the actual people? So we can't use Kinzo name inheritance any more?

>>4423874
This.
Kanontrice (very likely) > Jessitrice (forced) > Shkanontrice (goes against the red)

>>4423890
Surely Asumu's son Battler didn't refer to the Battler we know.

If Kanontrice is true, does he have a dong or not?

>>4423791
>There is no bomb; the boiler simply explodes.

For a long time I wondered how some explosion occurred, corpses are uncalled for, yet Kinzo's books survived. Apparently, he had books in Kuwadorian too?

>>4423882
Persona being able to be killed was foreshadowed several times.
If you talk about the closed rooms of episode 3, THE NUMBER OF BODIES was never specified.

The closed room with Jessica is simple really:
Jessica's corpse in red
Jessica is here in red
No one is hiding in red
Add to this the red text of episode 5, no body double other than the ones who appear in the story in red.
AND the detective privilege that Battler possess.

Then look at it from a logical POV

>>4423902
Wasn't there an archive of sorts in the guest house?

>>4423899
Most likely not.
Delicious reverse trap. How can anybody want to deny it?

>>4423808
I just love how people who talk about ShKanon keep arguing using the word "persona".
Anyone who knows fuck about psychology knows that persona is a "mask", or "a behavioral pattern"

"persona"="everything else in a human's head that is not a personality"

>>4423893
>>Shkanontrice (goes against the red)
Where?
It never goes against the red, there is a reason nobody managed to disprove it, both here or in moonland.

>>4423857
The problem with that is that Battler, being the Game Master, set things up specifically so that NO ONE WOULD KILL ANYONE ELSE AMONG THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE ON THE ISLAND. That's the reason he isn't suited to be the Game Master, because he didn't want to reveal any of Beato's truth.

Also, that whole "All names refer only to the actual people!" doesn't deny Shkanon in the slightest. It only denies a different person taking on the name of someone else, like George changing his name to Chiyo Kumasawa or something.


But really, I find the idea of Erika not existing even stupider than Shkanon because of the simple fact that it was stated in red that Erika increased the number of people by 1, and that other than her the number of people on the island in Episode 5 was exactly the same in all previous games. If the number of people is X, and Erika increases that number by 1, then the number of people becomes X+1. The only way you could argue that is if you took the same method that people say was used to resolve the red text in Episode 6, and say that Erika was a personality that was given to one of the pieces on the island and thus increased the count in the same way Erika was able to state in red that she was the 18th person.

>>4423910
Sorry, sorry. Ryukishi07 even implies the distinction in the game, with Jessica's mentioning of personas and how you use them in different social settings.

>>4423899
This is just one of the many things that could be solved if Ryukishi just had someone take off Kanon's pants. As well as maybe a tattoo on his leg if Shkanon is true.

Also it's possible Kanon is a reverse trap because either Zepar or Furfur ( on of the two) is really male. And these two probably represent Shannon and Kanon on the gameboard.

>>4423906
Yeah, but the guesthouse was only built in the same year Kinzo died.

>>4423915
Erika's exact red was something along the lines of " I am Erika Furudo, the Detective. I am the uninvited guest of Rokkenjima, the 18th person" .

>>4422677
She is so cute!

>>4423882
God, now I'm being reminded of Ever17 with how the computer tracked life forms.

>>4423915
Personality thing doesn't work with the red text of episode 5.
# 古戸ヱリカが1人増えただけ。
# それ以外の在島者の人数は、これまでのゲームとまったく同じ。

人 is pretty literal, there is no loophole.

It's different for the red text Erika used in episode 6 though.

What if Kanon has a vagina and SHANNON is the one with a dick?

>>4423905
>Persona being able to be killed was foreshadowed several times.
No it wasn't.

>If you talk about the closed rooms of episode 3, THE NUMBER OF BODIES was never specified.
Seriously, this is the last time I'll post this red.
"6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!"
Shannon and Kanon plus 4 others make 6 people here. Now go and rethink the end of EP6.

>>4423929
I know right?

>>4423905
Yes, it was also foreshadowed that [red]"X's corpse"[/red] can be a living X who appears to be a corpse.
It would be something different if the major contradiction in red text was something else, but when the two main contradictions about one thing have this much in common, it's much stronger foreshadowing than

*Eva-Beatrice not talking about alternative personalites*
>Implying alternative personalites exist

>>4423869
Um... while I myself don't like the idea of Erika not existing, either, Episode 6 blatantly shows that the game board can be rewritten by the Game Master at any point in time, as long as what's rewritten is not something that has been stated in red and has not been witnessed by the detective. This was shown fairly clearly. It also showed that the detective can have an effect on the gameboard that the Game Master might not be aware of, if they aren't paying attention. ...Which Battler wasn't, otherwise he might have realized what was going on sooner.

>>4423827
there's no need to add an 'i' to the names
しゃよ->しやよ->よしや
it's the exact same name with a different order

>>4423928
No, she says the 18th visitor.

>>4423938
Can someone repost that screenshot of episode 4 with Maria and MARIA to shut him up for good?
I don't have it saved on my computer.

>>4423952
Oh so Maria is dead and MARIA exists, so any red text referring to Maria is invalid rite because that's what you just said.

>>4423944
It's not thgat she never existed. It's that by the time she said her lines in red, the game had already ended. Thus, she may have been discarded by Bern.
Guys, please get the theory right before criticizing it.

>>4423942
You don't get my point so I'm stating it again:
IT'S STATED IN RED THAT JESSICA IS IN THE ROOM
IT'S ALSO STATED IN RED THAT NO ONE IS HIDING

SO WHERE IS JESSICA?
Since that corpse isn't her corpse.

>>4423938
>No it wasn't
yes it was

>>4423952
Maria and MARIA is different from Shannon and Shannon or Kanon and Kanon.
Stop being stupid, please!

>>4423945
...Well dammit.

>>4423967
Um no it's not Maria killed Maria and became MARIA so all text must refer to MARIA or it's just talking about a dead personality.

>>4423944

Mid Game rewrite? That's fucking cheating. Battler seems to be incompetent. Did Beato ever do that?

>>4423967
How?
MARIA is what Maria wants to be.
In a more extreme, it's probably the same for Shannon and Kanon.
Kanon was probably created because Shannon/Sayo wanted to be strong like a man for whatever reason.

>>4423964
Are you now implying Maria also has DID, just because she thinks she is a witch?

>>4423978
And that invalids the red text because...

>>4423937
George's butt will be sore for the rest of his life, and Battler gets awesome waifu.

>>4423978
Ya but by the logic every DID Shkanonfag has proposed personalities can be killed and red can refer to a specific personality.

So Maria is dead. Red that refers to "Maria" is therefore just talking about some dead personality. MARIA is the one who is alive.

MARIA CULPRIT CONFIRMED!

>>4423975
Erika herself said the witch's side is permitted to have multiple explanations for a mystery. The detective has to nail down all of them in order to win, otherwise the witch can just deny one and retreat to another.

>>4423962
You don't get my point, Anon, have a read.

I believe this should be posted more, for the first part especially.

>>4423989
It's called a foreshadowing, retard.
But while MARIA is just what Maria dreams to be and exists only in her mind, Shannon and Kanon are both considered 2 different persons by the world.
They both have 2 different identities.
See the difference?

>>4423979
No I'm implying that it's been foreshadowed that a personality can die. Maria and MARIA are only the example.

>>4423998
You are the one who don't get it.
Try to solve Jessica's closed room only, using your proposal.
So the corpse that they found isn't Jessica.
And then? Where is Jessica?

>>4424007
Nope, there is no difference. Maria is dead, MARIA is alive, it says it right there in the game. Doesn't matter whose body it was, the red can only refer to one personality, riiiiiiiiiight?

>>4423959
If that is the case, then I am perfectly fine with the Erika-not-existing theory. Then Kanon = Kinzo = Beatrice and is possibly a reverse trap.

>>4423975
Well of course Battler is incompetent. That was stated in red all the way back in Episode 2. But anyway, it's not so much that it's a "rewrite" as that the details aren't completely fixed until a fact relating to it is stated in red and/or the detective witnesses something themselves. ...I think.

Regardless, Battler could have said it was either way right up until Erika flipped the light on.

...Now that I think about it, that means that Virgilia's analogy to Schroedinger's Cat in Episode 3 was actually VERY apt.

But anyway, remember when Beatrice was about to say something in red in Episode 3, but Ronove prevented her? It's possible that she would have altered the game board in a way that was detrimental for some reason.

>>4424019
That's why I don't like to argue with retards, they don't even try to see your way.
Seriously, think a little.

>>4423978
> strong
lol

All that lamenting from a dead Jessica and Kanon was for show?

>>4424026
She was about to say an accidental death among the 6 wasn't possible I believe?

Mid game rewrite is far more retarded than any DID or moon theory.
And what is the point?

>>4424032
I'm just applying the information I have been told to apply by people who claim all aspects of Shkanon are "confirmed" by ep6. They couldn't possibly be a bunch of bullshitting retards who haven't actually read the episode and don't know what they're talking about, so they must be right about personalities and DID and all of that. Maria has DID and killed her Maria personality, now MARIA is in Maria's body and all red referring to Maria doesn't refer to MARIA.

God, how could it be simpler?

If Battler could rewrite the game, he would have done so during the logical error.

>>4424019
Alternatively, the instance with Maria and MARIA was meant metaphorically, but the situation can still be counted as a clue/foreshadowing. Doesn't mean it's correct, of course, but doesn't mean it isn't, either.

>>4424015
What difference is there in placing a bag in bed and using your own body as such a bag?

It seems that I can somehow imagine that "Jessica's corpse"="Jessica's own body she set up as a corpse", you can't, that's where we part.

>>4423995

So if the witch's side is playing hardball, all scenes not witnessed by the Detective would be in white and no Red would be given until the 24:00 showdown? There are a crapload of situations you can bullshit as the witch's side this way! They can even claim that the whole scene was a lie etc. How can the Human side even fight back against that!

>>4424047
He didn't know how because Beatroll is superior to him in every possible way.

>>4424051
>>"Jessica's corpse"="Jessica's own body she set up as a corpse"
Except that it's stated that Battler checked her body and detective can't be fooled by a fake death.

>>4424047
Actually, he could have. But he didn't, because doing so would have revealed a portion of Beatrice's heart.

>>4424047

I think he was closed in by the Red he so carelessly used earlier and can't find a solution to it by that point.

>>4424052
If the witch's side is playing hardball, yeah. You did read Episode 4, right?

>>4424053
Except there is nothing that even hint to Beatrice rewriting the games she was controlled.

Seriously with all the TRUST BETWEEN READERS AND WRITER than R07 is pushing, you guys are really going on the wrong way with this theory.

>>4424052
Or, Jessica's corpse could be used as a possessive. For example, if she was somehow able to hide Kinzo's body in her room, the corpse of Kinzo becomes "Jessica's corpse".

>>4423998
.
In episode 2 Jessica is probably the 5th twilight (gouge the chest and kill) not the 2nd.

Later on Kanon was probably seen as "Kanon, but not really" by the servants because he had some sort of epiphany or he realized something and he scared the fuck out of everyone when he tried to tell them about it. (Maybe he found Kinzo's corpse or he didn't want to keep it a secret anymore) The spiderwebs and zombie Kanon stuff was just a red herring.

>>4424052
Yeah. So it's a good thing Beatrice wasn't trying to beat Battler for real.

Oh yes, and do keep in mind that it's not like the witches' side can rewrite EVERYTHING. They can only rewrite things that haven't specifically been confirmed, and even then, what happens _still has to be doable by human means_. In other words, the game board can be altered all the time, but it can never have a situation where something is impossible via human means. That is what is referred to as a logic error.

>>4424074
If she did it right, how would you know?

>>4424077
Except that, once again, Jessica is stated to be in the room and it's also stated that no one is hiding.

>>4424062
Actually, Battler could have been fooled. He says himself that he thought he had checked it well enough, but was unsure.

>>4424089
Remind me, does the "no one hiding" also have to count for corpses?

I like how the most accurate corpse identifications in Umineko are made by anyone who isn't Dr. Nanjo.

>>4424062
We've been over this already.
Battler was not sure enough that he checked the corpse, wawered so much that Beato looked at him and thought "shall I troll?"
Knox can not apply in reality, but it's solvable. Actually, important thing about Knox rules is that any of them can be broken using enough foreshadowing. In this case, trolling scene is basically the same as saying "yes, at this point he could be wrong".

This point is dubious, therefore it allows the possibility of my theory.

>>4424102
He still checked her, that's enough
The unsure part came from him being completely trolled by Beatrice.
He is the detective, the detective can't be fooled by a fake corpse, that's all.

>>4424087
Oh yeah, and at the beginning of Episode 6, it's shown that the creation of a game board isn't done as a single, linear story, but is instead done as, for lack of a better term at the moment, something akin to an RPG module, where the game master sets situations up beforehand and tries to anticipate the possible actions the players may take, and must make things up on the fly when players start doing unexpected things, like accidentally (or purposely, though the GM may have anticipated it if the group had a tendency for it) killing the NPC they were supposed to save and forcing the GM to take the game in an entirely different direction.

>>4424102
I think Jessica's corpse existed, but it's not even really a closed room if Kanon exists. He left the room to leave Jessica alone, but maybe she was dead when he left. If that's the case Kanon's corpse never really disappeared he just went somewhere else. And Kanon doesn't really have to be the murderer, but maybe he locked the door after discovering her body and it was really Genji or Shannon that killed Jessica.

>>4424085
Didn't see such creative way of thinking in a while, cool theory bro.

>>4424125

Interesting. Pretty much how I imagined it then. So the random variable in the story is the Detective piece right? It's the one that can screw things up and change shit. Yep. Definitely an RPG.

What are the rules for making the tale though? Aside from, murders should be possible by human means, and pieces should act according to their nature?

>>4424149
Well, the GM isn't permitted to bullshit his or her way into a corner (Logic Error). So even if things are possible by human means, if the only possible explanation violates established points, it doesn't work.

Fiction theory fuck yeah, now even in your meta-world:
Foreshadowing:

-terms like Game master that is an obvious reference to pen and paper RPG

-Erika being a litteral Mary Sue, added since she "could" have been on the island, with a personality and ability which are completely unreal and fit Bern's needs.

-The witches only having power on the island during the 2 days, when it's stuck in a Schroedinger cat situation.
Aka when it belongs in the fictional world.

-The various rules like Knox and the colored texts.
Real world murders don't follow rules.
If you take it as Beatrice trying to make her game more logical, it make sense though.
Especially with the logical error who almost killed Battler in episode 6.
Why would a logical error kill a meta-being?

-The letters about the various games being found in the same world, see episode 4.

-Hachiyo Touya being able to "see" the meta-world.

-Maria and her being creator level witch, both of them are writers. Maria wrote her diary and it explicitly say that doing so created her MARIA personality.

-Ange still being around and her watching episode 6 with Touya.

>>4424149
I thought a lot about rules for changing a setting.

If you could change the setting a bit, every single episode can be solved with servant not appearing in the story on first day being dead to begin with.

>>4424160
-Meta-Battler not being the son of Asumu, which is strange in itself.
Nothing in the game show any reason for Rudolf or Kinzo to exchange the babies.
Kyrie didn't know for sure, so why and how would the babies be exchanged?
What if they never were exchanged?
What if Shannon's real identity is "Battler" son/daughter of Kyrie and Rudolf, red text would work there.
Could be the child of 19 years ago

-The golden text
It's used twice in the game.
To state that Kinzo is really dead without needing any proofs.
And to state that an obvious hand trick that moe Beatrice did to fill a cup with petals is "magic".
What could this mean?
We know that gold text can only be used by the people who know "everything".
What if the golden text is simply made of Shannon (or rather Beatrice)'s true knowledge and memory?
She knows that Kinzo is dead and she think that this hand trick is magic since she is crazy.

-Bernkastel being the detective, with her power not being able to go against Beatrice.
Beatrice's power is to create these "what if" infinitely, Bern being the detective is able to "solve" the mystery.
And Lambdadelta is representation of the killing act.
That's why she gives power to Beatrice, to solve the epitaph you have to kill after all.

>>4424160
> -Ange still being around and her watching episode 6 with Touya.
Except Ange was said to somehow have memories of what happened to her at the end of Episode 4, despite the fact that that took place BEFORE then. And she remembered that the first time things happened, she wasn't able to meet with Touya.

>>4424173
Anticipating Xzibit macro any time now.

>>4424173
Jyuuza knows Touya, as episode 6 implies.
He saved her on the island and brought her to Touya and Shannon when she was unconscious.
She probably was drugged to play along with Shannon roleplaying antics.
But she was ejected from the game when she was proven to be too much of a stimulus.

>>4424160
>>4424162

Oh yeah. I remember this. Shannon in a mental hospital being exploited by AuAu right? I don't buy it yet, but yes, Fiction theory really does rely a lot on the Meta World concepts.

>>4424161

So...backstory always remains the same? But where does Lambda screwing with Natsuhi in EP5 come in? So the backstory can change? What gives?

For all of you people who don't believe Kanon = Shannon = Beatrice: how did Battler get out of his closed room?

o wait most of you didnt actually play ep6 のヮの

>>4424162
> And Lambdadelta is representation of the killing act.
I still think this is the wrong conclusion, because it implies Lambda being subservient to Beatrice, which is not the case.

...Though it's stated in Lambda's diary that Beatrice's true power would actually be much stronger than that of Lambda's and Bern's combined if she realized her true potential.

By the way, could someone link me to the interview in which Ryukishi07 stated that a clue to what Lambda is/represents is in the epitaph? Because I've heard people say that, but I've never seen the interview myself.

>>4424197
Way to not read any threads bro.

>>4424206

I'm too busy reading actual Umineko threads at 2ch

>>4424162
> to solve the epitaph you have to kill after all.
Except the only "killing" involved in solving the epitaph is the metaphorical sort. What you're actually doing is removing characters from a specific list of characters; the characters in said list supposedly become self-evident once you've figured out what the six-character key is.

>>4424201
Lambdadelta gave powers to Beatrice mean that Beatrice had to kill to get what she wanted.
Beatrice ability of creating these "what if" stories is of course potentially more powerful than the powers of Bern or Lambda.

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>>4424212
There is 2 ways to read the epitaph, one to reach the golden land by doing a ceremony, the other is simple riddle to get to the gold.
Beatrice obviously follow the first way.

>>4424212
If you think about it that way, then perhaps Beatrice represents the "writer", but Lambda represents the concept of mystery itself?

Or you could say she represents a publishing company, if you want to make really weird comparisons.

>>4424208
Yeah because it must be right if Japanese people believe it.

>>4424246

It's better than reading here, where the majority of the population have only read a summary on some dick's blog or played through with ATLAS.

But hey, good luck solving that epitaph.

>>4424224
But Beato doesn't care if the epitaph is solved or not. That implies that she isn't trying to solve the epitaph either.

And once again, pretty much all hints regarding Beatrice's role in Umineko point to her being not a culprit/mastermind but a scapegoat and pawn. If Beatrice kills anyone at all, it isn't because it was her own idea.

>>4424269

Maybe Meta-Beatrice doesn't care if the epitaph is solved, but whoever the Beatrice is that wrote the letters probably does care.

>>4424269
Stop it with your accomplice, I get that you like her but stop being deluded.
Meta-Beatrice encompass the entire mystery of Rokkenjima.
If there is both a mastermind and a pawn, she is both.
And she is also the bomb/boiler room that explodes at the end of the game for sure.

Now for your first point, Beatrice doesn't care about the gold.
She doesn't care about solving the riddle as well.
She only follow the ceremony to get to the golden land.
She basically takes it literally, that's all.

>>4424197
Shannon and Kanon are actually Kinzo's adopted children, and Kanon's real name is Kinzo. Since "Kinzo" was excluded from Erika's location check, Kanon is free to rescue Battler.

>>4424301
Except it doesn't explain how Kanon could disappear from the room.
Or the whole "name only refers to the person itself", can't get around this.

>>4424308
Kinzo's corpse is on the island, but "Kinzo doesn't exist." Therefore, if the corpse of X is in a room, then X does not "exist" in the room. Kanon can disappear if he's killed by Erika.

>>4424308
He's dead and "name refers only to the person himself" doesn't apply to that but only to a particular statement with context, you illiterate mongoloid.

>>4424308

I read that one theory to explain his disappearance is that his corpse was hidden in the closet. That apparently doesn't contradict any reds about his disappearance.

>>4424294
But if Meta Beatrice is all that, and a person with a Beatrice personality on the island is the one doing the killings, then there's nothing to say that the Beatrice that was created to love Battler is the same as the Beatrice who is killing people.

>>4424322
Superb ad hominem attack.
Except that red text doesn't work that way.

# The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo. And, there were exactly five people in the neighboring room. No one other than the people corresponding to those five names existed! All names refer only to the actual people!

Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.

Now get some reading comprehension.

>>4424319
> Kanon can disappear if he's killed by Erika.
But if Erika killed Kanon, then she would have known how to get out of all the red text being used at the end of Episode 6.

>>4424049
No, it does mean Shkanon can't happen because it wides the possibilities too much.
Remember, the game MUST be possible to resolve.

>>4424308
Also it's already been shown that multiple people can have the same name. See: Ushiromiya Battler.

>>4424342
None of that red supports your point whatsoever?

>>4424286
...But that would mean that the red text used with regards to Beatrice's motive in Episode 5 only applies to Meta Beatrice and gives us no input into the motives of the culprit, which would imply that the culprit is not the same person as piece Beatrice.

>>4424353
Are you fucking retarded?
He states it fucking twice.
-I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people

Seriously, stop being a fucking retard, it's aggravating.

>>4424364
People can share names or have multiple names.

If "Kanon" is an alias that actually refers to another person, that person is "the person themselves."

Your point is entirely meaningless.

>>4424342
> Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
We really need to figure out what this actually means, because I've seen people using it to argue both for and against Shkanon.

>>4424346
Erika already showed she could take an action with her piece without telling the GM about it. Since her POV isn't trustworthy and she's also the culprit, why can't the GM do the same thing right back?

>>4424342
>The people who were in the neighboring room at the time it was sealed were Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon
>Shannon
>Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left
>only Battler left
So that means that if Shkanon is true, Shannon would still be inside the room, right?

>>4424369
> If "Kanon" is an alias that actually refers to another person, that person is "the person themselves."
But that would make Lambda's red text at the end of Episode 4 pointless.

>>4424351
There isn't 2 Battler in Rokkenjima.
The Battler we know is the only Battler we get.
If one of the character, say Kanon, used to be called Battler, it's not his identity on the board at all and he can't be referred that way.

That's what the "all names refer only to the actual people" red text means.

>>4424359
Which red is that? I don't remember a red about Beatrice's motive. Except that she wanted Battler to be able solve the mystery.

>>4424375
Didn't she get back detective's authority after she admitted to killing the five people, though?

>>4424383
No, it just means only one person can claim to be Kanon. It doesn't necessarily mean there exists a person who is the Kanon we have been led to expect exists.

If "Kanon" is just somebody's disguise, that person is "the person who can claim Kanon's name."

Lambda's red merely restricts HOW MANY people can use it.

>>4424372
It basically means that the red can't arbitrarily talk about Natsuhi and actually be referring to George, since George's name isn't Natsuhi.

>>4424369
Of course, a person can have diffrerent names.
BUT he can't share a name with someone else on the island.
The loophole is of course that in ShKanon's case, they were the same person to begin with.

I only stated that point for the Kinzo retardation.

>>4424396
Wrong. It means only who could call themselves Kanon would be able to do it.
If there were two Kanon, both could claim the name.
Just like the two Battlers.

>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
>>4424380
Just so you guys can't state you didn't see it.

>>4424391
No, killing the five people made her the culprit. The culprit and the detective can't be the same person.

>>4424418
I'm not sure where you got a "anyone who can call themselves Kanon can call themselves Kanon" tautology out of that red.

>>4424386
# This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph.
# The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
# Whether the epitaph's riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
# Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain.
# Battler-kun is not the culprit.
# Battler-kun didn't kill anyone.
# This can be said of all games.
# Her goal is not to make someone experience fear.
# And it isn't to have revenge on someone either.
# Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.

In fact, now that I think about it, Meta Beatrice is the one who would be killing for love, by setting up the games to get Battler to come to the truth. If the red text above applies only to Meta Beatrice, then if piece Beatrice is the culprit she very well could be killing people for any of the reasons given.

However, if the text above does indeed apply to piece Beatrice, the one who loves Battler, then you can't simply say that it means she's killing for love, because that's only one thing the red text could potentially imply. It can just as easily mean that the Beatrice who loves Battler isn't the culprit/mastermind.

>>4424426
I didn't say that.
I said that everybody who received the name Kanon could claim it. So Kanon can claim both his real name and the name "Kanon". And what is his real name again?
Also, there is no red text saying that people can't share names on the island.

>>4424425
So that means there is no detective and EP6 may be a bunch of bullshit?

>>4424473
Mainly bullshit on her part. Possibly some retaliatory bullshit from Beato after the logic error.

>>4424427

I thought it was obvious that she had nothing to gain from solving it to begin with.

here are my blue truths

# It was said that the epitaph was put as a challenge in the letters as a kind of gamble. So the epitaph can be made as a challenge by Beatrice without her having anything to gain from it. It's a condition so that there is a possibility she can lose

Or if that doesn't work

# someone other than the child referred to in those reds wrote the letters with something to gain. This person had access to the head's ring and was able to create the letters.

as for motive for peice Beatrice to kill

# It was said that she had no motive such as the epitaph, revenge or pleasure from killing, to murder someone, but it's never been said that nobody else's motive to kill can't be used for her to be a murderer. If we assume peice Beatrice is somebody's furniture than her motive for killing is someone else's motive and not her own.

Because apparently this needs posted again.

"All five master keys were discovered, each in the pocket of one of the servants!"

Not an accurate translation.

"All five keys were discovered, each in the pockets of the five servants!"

There were five servants dead, with ONE key in each of their pockets. There is NO room for misinterpretation of it in Japanese. Shannon and Kanon have different bodies. Confirmed in red.

Stop fucking discussing your shitty Shkanontrice DID bullshit and start trying to figure out a proper solution to Episode 6.

>>4424530
Or she could be already dead and not the killer.

>>4424553

That's retarded. Peice Beatrice should represent somebody on the game board or those reds are pretty much useless. There is obviously no motive if she's dead, but you don't have to even think to come up with that.

>>4424577
>Piece Beatrice should represent somebody on the game board
Why?

>>4424628
I already said. Because if she isn't represented by someone than the reds about her in episode 5 are pretty much useless. If those reds are about Meta Beatrice and not Peice Beatrice than there is no purpose for them to be there at all.

>>4424654
You still didn't explain your point.
She may have died while having some regrets, if what you are saying is that it's pointless for her to play the game.

>>4424684
I didn't say it was pointless for her to play the game. My point is that these reds >>4424427 are pointless if they're not referring to Piece Beatrice.

So maybe your saying they don't matter because she never kills anyone?

They are not pointless. The reason they exist is because someone is using her name, but it's not herself doing it. And of course, she wants Battler to find that out.

>>4424817
Well yeah, that was what I was trying to say. That somebody uses Beatrice's name or a character represents the person that red refers to. Or something like that.

>>4424859
But that doesn't mean the "character trying to claim there is a witch called Beatrice (aka culprit)" is meta Beato.

>>4424544

Post the actual Japanese text or your translation means as much shit as you think W-H does.

>>4424891
I think I can live with that. There also isn't any guarantee that Beato is the real or only culprit either.

>>4424942
Exactly my point. Beato could be someone living in the mansion that Battler made a promise with but died in the years Battler was away, aiting for him to come back.
The problem with this theory is that there must be hints of who would this person be. I can think of: Asumu, original Beatrice and that servant Natsuhi killed, but the last two would have died before he was born.
So maybe... Asumu was Beatrice?

>>4425002
No, Asumu is Hachijou Touya. Erika is Beato.

Kyrie is what R07 is thinking to be .
"Believe in magic, Battler"
flip the chessboard, /jp/