/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>43659701
Sorry chud, but it all be fumo and KKHTA, and (You) gonna like it
Trust ze plan

>>43659788
>KKHTA
Who gives a fuck about that in anno domini 2023

>>43659799
Western touhou fandom

>>43659799
>who gives a fuck about that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_emxNx1Ydao

>>43659926

>>43659701
I really fucking hate twitter. It has way too much influence and always brings AIDS here; see posts in thread.

I tried to represent the older fans and those who created fanworks...but it probably will just be people saying they found Touhou in 2020 through Fumo memes.
>>43659952
But anon how will they be able to screenshot our posts and make fun of us without coming here?! Think of the coout

>>43659788
>>43659799
Fuck you pussy, KKHTA is the greatest Touhou fan work and I'm tired of pretending it's not just to fit in with this board.

>>43661063
It's shock gore anon, hardly an artistic masterpiece.
It's not awful but it's not the best thing ever either.

>>43659701
No. They invited it, so they can choke on fumos and homosexuality and die.

>>43659701
>so I thought I'd shoot this over here.
Great job OP, I'm sure /jp/s... 17 users will sway it in the right direction!

>>43661081
>It's not awful
It is rather awful in that it doesn't respect the original setting, bears very little semblance to the source material and merely borrows the visual designs, rarely consulting the actual personality of the character it comes from. Not to mention, at one point it quite literally destroys Gensokyo to replace it with the author's "original" set-up. It's pretty egregious in its disrespect. The author just doesn't know or care about Touhou, and that's very obvious when you watch it.

>>43661063
KKHTA only good when it was just dark comedy stuff. After that, it just trying so hard to be le-subvert-my -expectation meme.

>>43661106
I'm not that anon and I REALLY dont wanna go to bat for it since I agree that its pretty bottom of the barrel and only truly got popular because it was relatively one of a kind during that era of things, but you really must not interact with fanworks if "doesn't respect the setting" makes it shit. Shit, I'd even argue a good chunk of the official manga just turn characters into different ones entirely with very little input from ZUN. It's like, the most retarded possible problem to have with it when you could just say "it's bad lol".

>>43661106
I've read all the manga and source material and sometimes I just wanna see all the 2hus act like sluts.
People can make whatever they want and it doesn't indicates whether they know/care or not.

>>43663146
>I'd even argue a good chunk of the official manga just turn characters into different ones entirely with very little input from ZUN.
Isn't ZUN pretty heavily involved when it comes to official manga? I remember something about WaHH and the artist saying she had to work hard to keep up with ZUN's demands.

>>43664726
It is a heavy coin toss. My assumption is the general story gets outlined and the main characters (Akyuu, Kasen, sexwhale) are all borderline handwritten by him but you get people like Sanae who can change relatively largely across the different materials. And that's to say nothing of Reimu herself; I think she's the definitive example of how hands-off he can be as she changes the most across literally every official non-game work.

>>43664871
I think ZUN made Reimu act different across the different manga on purpose.
We've been over this before. Something something about how each protag see her.
And likely also ZUN made the characters ambiguous and hard to pin down on purpose.

>>43664871
>>43666158
For me, Lotus Eater is the REAL 2hu. What say you to that?

>>43659945
Blehhhhh

>>43663146
>the most retarded possible problem
You'll have to forgive me for expecting Touhou fanworks to retain a modicum of resemblance to the source material. I like Touhou. I like Touhou. I like Touhou fanworks. If it merely looks like Touhou but doesn't act it whatsoever, it might as well be Cookie and thus won't receive a mote of a care from me.

So yeah, when your creative process is "new Touhou game just came out and there's this cool one-winged lady, so I'm going to have her talk about the Lunarians'/Satoris' plan to Lord Tsukuyomi like it's nothing, because who cares who or what she is or what she actually does, lol" then you can suck my dick, pretty much, because that's not even Touhou anymore.

>>43664871
>I think she's the definitive example of how hands-off he can be as she changes the most across literally every official non-game work.
Never understood this complaint, and I've been following the series since 2007. Reimu is a consistent character, she acts in certain ways in certain circumstances and rarely changes. She's lazy at heart, so she takes it exceedingly easy when not working (to the point of worrying her friends, as seen in FS, for example); she has a strong sense of purpose nevertheless, so she's pushy and enthusiastic during incidents. She knows youkai respect only a show of force, so she puts on that show when fighting. She is, underneath it all, a human, however, so she has the occasional flashes of a very human sense of justice, such as her finale against Sumireko in ULiL.

She may be a complex person, and her general attitude may come off as odd to more grounded human beings, but she's still the same Reimu. All of her portrayals fit well into her character. PC98's hormonal teen cockiness notwithstanding.

>>43664871
>And that's to say nothing of Reimu herself
It's not like each of Reimu's personality only stuck in one manga each, it's just that because she have two faction opposed to each other (human and youkai), she's need to appease both side so she has a reputation to uphold
We see that Reimu took her job seriously if it involves human villager (FS, LE) or just resolving incident in general (the games), horrifically lazy when nothing is really happening (WaHH, Fairy manga), and personally a chill person when surrounded by her trusted companion (CoLA, SSiB, Fairy manga).
The only time Reimu "betrayed" her established personality was in CDS when she's shits her pants and isolating herself in Eientei instead of going Crimson Slasher on Mizuchi, and at least she has an excuse as Marisa and Yukari, her best friend and trickster mentor (both also the top dogs in Gensokyo), jobbed easily against MiMi. Even then, she's back to her Crimson Slasher persona when MiMi entered the village and her intention of endangering the entire Gensokyo made pretty clear

>>43668046
>thus won't receive a mote of a care from me.
Then just say that you personally don't like it, which is entirely your problem. It's more fair to say than saying it like it's objectively awful when fanwork stray too much from canon when some people enjoy whatever the twist they put into Gensokyo in varying degrees of absurdity, depending on each individual's taste and what they wanna see.

>If it merely looks like Touhou but doesn't act it whatsoever
I'm sorry but 90% of Touhou fanworks are like this. If you wanna see something faithful then just stick to official manga.

>>43669159
>it's objectively awful
As a fanwork, yes, it is. Since it barely draws from the source material, and what it does is presented with active disrespect. You may judge it on its own merits if you please, but since it borrows designs from Touhou, I'm going to judge it as a fanwork.
>I'm sorry but 90% of Touhou fanworks are like this.
Invoking the Sturgeon's law, are we? No, but really, I am aware and I do dislike a lot of so-called "fanworks" that don't seem to be made by or for fans of Touhou. On their own merits, sure. As derivatives of Touhou? Well, they had best at least be aware of who the characters are.

And, again, please note I've only passed judgement on KKHTA from this angle. As a fanwork. As a re-portrayal of the source material. And, from this angle, KKHTA is a disaster.

>>43663146
>>43669159
NTA, but the problem with KKHTA is that it actively betrayed canon stuff to ridiculous degree
Why is it wrong to rate fanwork as what it actually is, a fan work of particular media?

>>43669311
Who exactly underlined the requirement for derivative to be considered fanwork?
And what is this assumption that people who make their own depiction of Touhou setting or characters means they don't care about the source material, or that Touhou fans has to like everything about Touhou that they are not allowed to put their own rendition or else it's not considered a fanwork? Again, who decides that?
You are aware that ZUN made the IP free and canon material to be vague and loose on purpose, right? If the sanctity of source material is so important ZUN could've just try to limit fanwork production through more solid characterization, guidelined prohibition or just taking the IP free usage altogether, but ZUN does the opposite exactly to promote creative freedom as the biggest supporter of doujin activities, especially fanworks of his own series.

>>43669602
The circumstances regarding Touhou and its fanworks are just different and can't be compared to common media, because Touhou is build to make fanwork flourish and vice-versa.

>>43669792
>not allowed
Nobody said that, so cool your jets. You're allowed to do whatever you like. But when what you do is actively and consistently disrespect the source material to the point of total erasure (as occurs in KKHTA), then I dare suspect you may not be a fan after all. This impression is further cemented by the author of KKHTA being rather patently unaware of who many of the characters are, how the setting works, things that ought to be possible and otherwise, etc.

Thus, as a viewer, I cast the following judgement: the author of KKHTA isn't a fan of Touhou. Or, if they are, they're a very inattentive, surface-level and, dare I say it, secondary fan thereof. Now, are they disallowed from being a secondary? No. If we forbade secondaryism, half this fanbase would go poof. But as they are allowed to disrespect the source material, so am I allowed to disrespect their reinterpretations of it.

>>43669602
I think my post pretty much explains my feelings on it relatively concisely. I don't like it, I struggle to grasp why it got popular in the first place and just have made that assumption on the why's and how's, and think that disliking it just because it's OOC and not because it's just a boring edgefest is weird.
That's all.

>>43669894
>the author of KKHTA isn't a fan of Touhou. Or, if they are, they're a very inattentive, surface-level and, dare I say it, secondary fan thereof.
Again where the hell does this come from?
Someone could've well did more 1cc's and made more thesis about characterization from the source material than you ever could, but if he's also a fan of goreshit and want to see 2hus being psycho and gut each other, or he's Gintama fan that want to see them being off-the-walls as possible then so be it. It is not impossible and not as much of an outlier as you might think.
I couldn't it express it better but when I said "they are not allowed" I didn't mean it literally, but rather that you would label them secondary and their work as "not fanwork" which isn't necessarily true. This notion about fanwork has to follow canon material to certain degree and personal interpretation is seen as disrespectful is moot anyway since again, ZUN who promote fanwork and doujin activity himself doesn't outline how fanwork should be made and deliberately structure the canon material you love so much so people can make whatever they want, so by your logic ZUN just disrespected his own works. He also certainly welcome secondaries to use his IP.
So what is the basis of your judgement and assumption exactly? Just your own sense of elitism?

>>43670312
>elitism
My good man, I create pornographic fanworks as my bread and butter. I don't get to speak about elitism.

And, to address the core question, though I have answered if already, if obliquely, the answer is thus: that, going by the author's work, in this case KKHTA, I can observe no familiarity, respect or love for the source material. Simple as that. I have both observed these things even in "bad" works (such as, for example, porn, amateur fics, etc.), and I have observed their lack in otherwise very well made works. Whether KKHTA belongs to the former or latter category, on that matter, I have no worthwhile opinion to cast.

To summarise, I posit that KKHTA's author is not a fan (hence their work is not "fan" work), as they are demonstrably unfamiliar with and none too fond of the source material. No more and no less. Once again, it's a Cookie situation. It may look like Touhou at first glance, but at its pith it's just... not Touhou. Quality completely notwithstanding. And, pardon me, but I like Touhou, and want more Touhou in my Touhou fanworks. Condemn me if you will.

>>43670541
And I'm not even talking about quality whatsoever. You don't see it in any of my post.
I'm questioning your definition of fanwork and your assumption about who made them, but you don't budge and said the same thing without even addressing my actual points; that it is not fanwork and the creator is not a fan by your own personal definition.
But you also seem to empashize that you personally just want more Touhou, then it goes back to my earlier post; just say you don't like it. But if you go on about definition and assumption that I find flawed I'm free to object.

This nigga over here really defends KKHTA lmao

>>43670780
I'll say it again, in all caps, so perhaps you'll notice it this time:

GOING BY THIS WORK IN PARTICULAR (KKHTA).

Whatever else the author may have made, I haven't seen, so KKHTA is the extent of my context. I don't know them personally, either. If I am mistaken, please do correct me. Otherwise, I'll continue to draw the obvious conclusion from this particular piece of work, which is, to reiterate, KKHTA and KKHTA by itself.

KKHTA is good, the person who made it GETS me!

Wait do newfags really like KKHTA? I remember people just accepting it was edgy shit back then, liking it in a "so bad it's good" way in the same vein of Tails Gets Trolled, Neko Sugar Girls or similar shitpost media

>>43671453
The battles with the kaiju 2hus vs lunarians is literally Evangelion-tier... pure kino

>>43670883
And I'm questioning your logic behind why you dislike KKHTA. Simple as.
Is it weird that I see your arguments as sentiment towards fanworks in general because it does can be applied to most of them? It's not like you made it clear that you only deem, or will only deem KKHTA to reach that bottom barrel of your standard in your earlier posts.

But again, speaking about KKHTA in particular, what makes you think it's an "obvious" conclusion that the creator is not a fan and it doesn't count as fanwork? Because everyone are crazy psychos? because Sagume speak when she shouldn't, even though even most attentive fan would have a hard time figuring how her power works when she came just few weeks after release? Again it is not rare for fan creators to make wild depictions like that.
Yeah I have to make examples from outside KKHTA as comparison, but again I simply question your statement of what makes a fanwork or a fan whether it's in the scope of KKHTA alone or fanworks in general, that's what I've been doing. If you're aware that you don't know the author personally why make such assumption in the first place?

Or would you say that your verdict and the logic behind are completely personal and not in any way objective?

>>43670834
Not really.
I dislike KKHTA as much as the other guy but like the other anon said, if it is because it is "disrespectful" and that the creator is not a "fan" then I gotta question that notion.
It is bad for a lot of things, but even this guy said he has no comment about its quality and go on about what seems to be the "etiquette" behind it as fanwork, which is what I'm arguing as well.

>>43671453
>Wait do newfags really like KKHTA?
>liking it in a "so bad it's good" way
so what exactly are you arguing against? what an utterly nonsensical post
and nobody even said anything about liking it either, one guy just argues that just because somebody made fan work that is not consistent with the canon does not mean he doesnt enjoy the original material too, or is somehow lesser of a fan than anybody else. many popular circles that made tons of contributions to the fandom play fast and loose with the setting, thats just what fanworks are. if you want something faithful to the canon, go back to the official works

>>43659788
>this thread
fpwp

>>43671541
>what makes you think it's an "obvious" conclusion that the creator is not a fan and it doesn't count as fanwork
You're really going to make me repeat myself, aren't you? All right, but just this once. Next attempt at pretending will be met with my indifference.

So, here goes again. I believe, based on the contents of KKHTA, that the author does not care for, or about, the source material. The direct signage comprises:
- Characters undergoing terrible abuse. And mind, it isn't select characters that the author might feel a personal dislike for. The entire cast is put through suffering, culminating in a literal and literary destruction of their beloved world. Such animosity suggests to me the author harbours a strong dislike of the cast.
- The setting's constants and long-established rules are violated or omitted altogether. This leads me to believe the author does not actually pursue the series nor its stories. The fairies' madness, their technical immortality, the sheer tertiary nonsense of Lunarians being youkai, and that's not even mentioning individual characters being portrayed as nothing remotely resembling themselves - these are examples just off the top of my head, and it's been years since I last perused the series. I could probably go on with minimal effort.
- New characters appearing just as they pop up in the canon, with zero heed paid nor attempt made to portray them with an iota of accuracy. Not even a token try. Nothing. Just "hey, one wing, cool," and we go home. Pathetic. This makes me suspect the author didn't even play the games or read the dialogue, let alone character profiles.
- Hourai immortality, one of the most thoroughly explored magical concepts in the whole series is completely, utterly misunderstood. Or, it would be more accurate to say, no attempt to understand it or refer to the original is made. This leads me to believe the author never perused the print works.
- Once again, the author abuses the cast, whom he first grossly misunderstands and misrepresents, continues to do so for a long time, only to then depict a destruction of the setting and its supplanting (complete with an embarrassingly vague time skip) with their own "original" set-up. Unceremoniously offing most of the cast in the process.

And so I ask. Is this the work of a fan? Or is this the work of someone who wanted to ride the coattails of the series' popularity, maybe even had a hate boner against it, and who dropped the series, never to be finished, moving on to undisclosed things that aren't Touhou?

Maybe they are, actually, a fan. Maybe not. However, GOING BY THIS WORK IN PARTICULAR, I am led strongly to believe that they are not. Not a fan, not a fanwork, not even evocative of Touhou outside of the borrowed designs.

ALRIGHT I'M GONNA SAY IT
I think KKHTA's Koishi design is cute.

>>43671681
that jpeg has seen better days

>>43659701
I've seen many franchises and series decline when they start pandering to western audiences. It's fucking over.

>>43669792
>because Touhou is build to make fanwork flourish and vice-versa
Sure, but it still doesn't mean fanwork can't be judged on what it actually is, a fan work
Simple as

>>43671656
Okay, I shouldn't ask more even though what I did was rhetorical and I may even have answered it myself. So now I'll be the one who's gonna repeat myself to answer your statements.

>Is this the work of a fan?
Yes. It is possible, likely even.
You think that a "fan" or "fanwork" has to portray the characters and setting positively and accurately. I've seen author that made the story and setting of Gensokyo to be utterly cruel and dystopian, but made something sweet on the next. It is not weird to see Touhou doujins omit certain amount of canon details for the sake of whatever plot or message the author want to deliver, but still nailed some others. So it's not a clear indication whether he forced himself to skim the wiki somehow, simply couldn't bother to read, or know them all but conveniently skipped them for his own narrative purpose. These also applies to KKHTA author as well.
So it goes back to what "fan" exactly. I'd argue that even /jp/ still ask basic or common questions about lore so complete knowledge may not be it. What if they know but discard them on purpose? their choice. Whether they abuse the characters/setting or not? I've seen authors that do both. Then there's what ZUN himself consider a fan or fanwork, which can't be said much because he basically welcomes anything.

But okay, I said TOO much when you did say "I believe" which means you're aware that it's simply your own opinion and speculation, so let's just leave it at that. I won't say that KKHTA author is certainly a fan, but whether he's not is also uncertain.
But if you objectively think or absolutely certain that people who actively hurt the characters and omitting canon can NOT be fan and it can't be fanwork, there'd be a lot of proof and statements to consider.

Also funny that you mention Cookie. I'm certain the creators actually know quite a deal about Touhou and the actual sound drama itself doesn't jump out too much from the setting and just a typical 2hu SoL/romcom. It's only the jokes that separated itself from Touhou due to its nature.

>>43671757
What count as fan or fanwork itself is debatable, especially in regards to Touhou.
But sure I guess, if you wanna ground it from your own definition, but know that nothing is truly certain.

>>43672380
>if you objectively think or absolutely certain that people who actively hurt the characters and omitting canon can NOT be fan and it can't be fanwork
Good god, man, that was just ONE of the reasons given. In combination with others, they led me to the contentious conclusion. Try not to overfocus on distinct constituents of the argument. There's that one whole part about setting erasure that you've consistently refused to address, for example.

We've all been over the "gore porn" discussion in regards to KKHTA. Yes, some authors abuse their characters too, despite being demonstrably fans. Zounose comes to mind, even if Zounose has other problems (mostly of the technical nature of writing and constructing plots). There are also very clear fans who forgo canon personalities for their own ends, but still display a degree of familiarity and appreciation of the series expected of a fan (Tomoki Tomonori, anyone?).

The problem with KKHTA is that all those little problems in combination - not just the abuse, not just the separate omissions of canon personality from the characters, not just the irreverence toward the source material - all of them conflated in this one work evoke the image of someone who does not care for the series at all.

I don't like Zounose. But his work at the very least exhibits real fan-aptitude in how they approach the setting. They aren't faithful, not close, but they're clearly inspired. KKHTA, in comparison, is just a prolonged insult to the original.

I found KKHTA only really went beyond the blood and guts when we found out that the literal Moon itself was the real enemy and instigator to the chaos.
Before that, it was not much different from any other super dark and edgy Touhou doujins.

>>43671698
Wrong thread?

>>43671698
>pandering to western audiences
We don't even have official translation until this very day

>>43673928
Someone conflated all of those wrongs still doesn't absolutely indicates the author doesn't care either. Like, one of the example I said who wrote dystopian Gensokyo basically did all that. Hell, I'd say that's basically what many other Touhou gore stories does, because let's be honest, visible slaughter itself is against everything Touhou is all about; they can't die, the theme doesn't promote wanton slaughter and they are not insane enough to do that. Same goes with porn if you think about it. The source material doesn't have any indication that the characters would lust after cocks; not the setting, theme nor personalities. Despite these, the artists still able to show appreciation and knowledge of actual Touhou in separate works.
KKHTA author might've never shown it but it's possible that he does care. All I'm saying is no matter what he made doesn't absolutely indicates what he is and it's silly to immediately hard-label him as a hater.
But again you said it yourself, you are only "led" to believe and it only "evoke" the image in your eyes, so it seems to be entirely your problem.

Also what I said about gore stories is why I think Zounose is rather tame; the gore he does is merely a more graphic physical consequences in the story, while the other aspects, albeit skewed and take a darker shade of the source material nonetheless, are still reasonable within fanworks. It is not far up there in the edgy scale.

>>43671681
>I think KKHTA's Koishi design is sex.
FTFY

>>43674144
Forbidden Scrollery has an official translation.

Here's your canon character consistency bro!
ZUN truly cares about these details bro!

>>43676038
he cant even get their eye color right sometimes

>>43674583
>I'd say that's basically what many other Touhou gore stories does
Then it's fortuitous that I brought up a whole bunch of other things besides that, hmm?
>But again you said it yourself, you are only "led" to believe and it only "evoke" the image in your eyes, so it seems to be entirely your problem.
So, in a discussion about why it is my opinion that the author of KKHTA isn't a fan (which was the original question: why such a claim), after I've provided an explication on why it is my opinion, your rebuttal is that it is... my opinion? I don't even know what to say.

>>43676064
At first you made it seems like you speak from objective standpoint. I've also said from the beginning that you could've just said you personally don't like it, but then you went on about definition of fanwork and a fan which I objected. But in the end you basically said "b-but for me he's not a fan" so who am I to change how you wanna call things?
However if you wanna be objective then my points still stand. Creating fanwork that is "wrong" in several ways doesn't necesaarily indicates that he's not a fan or that he hates the series, nor that said work doesn't count as fanwork. It's up to you whether to believe it, ignore it or rebutte it.

>>43676137
rebutte hehe

>>43676137
>However if you wanna be objective
No, I don't. In the first place, I only ever judged KKHTA in this thread from the one, singular angle - that of it being a fanwork and its qualifications for such a denomination. Hell, I'd opened up this conversation by stating my very subjective criterion and that any work not abiding thereby would receive "not a mote of my care."

Now where the hell do you see the objectivity in that? Good lord, man. Of course it's subjective. We're talking about the perceived membership of an ephemeral, informal group!

Also,
>went on about definition of fanwork and a fan
No, I didn't. All this time I've been talking about KKHTA's author specifically. Still not addressing the argument, besides. Although, if you're just going to repeat "it's just your opinion" (note no strawman stuttering) instead of engaging with the points brought up, then this discussion stands to turn rather, ha ha, pointless. The least you could do is say why you do consider the author of KKHTA a fan, so we can compare notes.

>>43676245
And I argued about your qualification of KKHTA as fanwork which you appearently stand in firm. That's what I've been doing.
And you did affirm that the work is "objectively" awful as fanwork which is again what I disagreed with.

>No, I didn't.
By declaring that KKHTA is disaster of a fanwork and the creator is not a fan, then clarifying the reason (that it doesn't follow the source material and the author being disrespectful), you have basically made a stand of what should be a fanwork or a fan (that it has to follow and respect the source material), which is what I objected.
Then I presented my own definition regarding the matter, basically to argue that KKHTA as fanwork is not a disaster and it is presumptuous to label him a non-fan. Simple as that.

>instead of engaging with the points brought up
But I did. You've said all those points about the wrongs and inaccuracies he did which made you deem KKHTA as disrespectful and made assumption about its creator, then I responded back by saying KKHTA is still within the realm of being acceptable (I also argued that there's barely any border to begin with) and the author isn't what you think it is, using other fanworks as example and measuring standard. That's my point.
I'm not sure what you expected me to argue. The inaccuracy itself? Do tell me what I missed and what I'm supposed to argue, despite that i've made my concern clear along with the point I've intended to express.

Oh, and do forgive me if you were not at all speaking from objective standpoint and merely expressed your personal view that doesn't necessarily need to apply to the general perception. I've only noticed halfway when you started using certain words, which is why I started regarding your arguments as personal opinion, which honestly I'd be less concerned with. But like I said before if that's the case you shouldn't have responded to this >>43669159 and did what the other anon said. Again, by affirming that KKHTA is objectively awful you present something for me to argue with.
And again, just because I see your argument as opinion now doesn't mean I'm taking back my statements and this whole argument become pointless, because I still made my point. If you wanna make another argument then just say it.

>>43675982
The whale manga too (french only)

>>43676976
>you have basically made a stand of what should be a fanwork or a fan
Nope. The definition of a fanwork is contained within the word: fanwork. The work of a fan. Nothing more to it. Well, other than the specification of the work being derivative of what the fan is a fan of, but that's sophistry. We all know what it means.

And a fan obviously needs to be interested in the subject material to be a fan. Otherwise they... aren't a fan. This isn't arguing definitions of words; it's base logic. Someone who's not interested in and scorns soccer isn't a soccer fan. Can't see how this could possibly be misconstrued without malice aforethought. I could argue what constitutes a "real" fan according to my personal view, but that's beside the crux and nobody gives a toss about some random cunt's imaginary standards for fandom anyway. KKHTA's author, however, demonstrably holds no interest in nor appreciation for Touhou (for the collective reasons I've listed) - ergo, they are not a fan by the term's denotative definition. What follows is that their work is not the work of a fan. This is everything I've ever argued. I'm not even saying it's the truth or the objective reality of the situation. Just my substantiated impression from having watched KKHTA.
>KKHTA is still within the realm of being acceptable
Which you haven't defined, and which you only related to the gore aspect of the piece.

All in all, if you believe that the assortment of reasons I've given - not each one separately, not just one of them mirrored by other authors, ALL OF THEM AT ONCE, EXHIBITED WITHIN THE ONE, SAME WORK - does not give off the impression of a creator who at their absolute best doesn't care a whole lot for the source material you are calling them a fan of, well... There's not much I can do. To me, the fact he does all those things - once more, all of them at once, not just each thing separately, like some of the authors brought up for contrast - clearly signifies such a lack of fondness. Going off KKHTA alone, of course, in case this wasn't clear enough by the third repetition.

Of course, subjectively, I would then call your definition into question. For one, it would make me a fan of some things I've written scathing shitposts on, which I would never consider myself to be a fan of. Why, it might make me a fan of KKHTA...

So what did everyone answer for the poll...?
>>43675982
It's not that good and mixes up terms like spirits, ghosts, and some others
Which I guess is kind of nitpicky but if you're a lorefag it does become annoying
Also names get translated as "Akyuu Hiedano" which is just retarded
>>43677124
I could have sworn it was in English too
How is the French translation?

>>43671453
I just like the artstyle.

>>43669894
>the author of KKHTA isn't a fan of Touhou.
He at least was while working on the series, shit he had to constantly remind people because of how edgy the series was

>>43677859
Translation for FS is alright. I didn't note anything glaring. There's a more or less extensive set of notes at the end of the manga explaining the terms frequently not translated, like for the Enenra if I remember right.

>>43679521
Well, he fooled me!

>>43677859
>How is the French translation?
I don't speak French, just saw someone posting about it on twitter
FS was ok, one weird thing that is a bit annoying is that they duplicated onomatopoeia (like both the Japanese pronunciation and translation is included, see picture)

To intrude on the KKTHA discussion (even though I've never watched it).
I really like Mamange and "The Story of Koishi Being Lodged In Satori-sama's Ureter", but they clearly don't care much about canon and just use select concepts and characters from the series. Maybe they are just good doujins, rather than good fanworks?
Although I don't think that's quite true either, since it'd be difficult to understand the Ureter manga without knowing the source material. It might be true for Mamange, though.
Maybe these are fine because they never appear to tell some status-quo violating story about Gensokyo?

>>43679859
They are fanwork. By basic definition, at least according to him, that fanwork is a derivative made someone who appreciate the series by portraying it in relatively good light, which Mamanga and Koishi stuck in ureter does. Their questionable qualities are only that it defies or outright replace (in case of Mamange) the setting's rule, which a fan can still choose to do despite their sentiment and knowledge.
Know that the guy's argument is actually not that KKHTA is certainly not the work of fan. Only that it APPEARS to be not the work of a fan according to his own personal assessment and thus to him it's not a good fanwork.
Obviously good or bad measurement is subjective, you can say whatever as good or bad to you. You don't have to use his argument (which is more of responsive statement than affirming objective standard) as corner-stone definition to judge other series.

Holy shit this is autistic
This entire conversation is autistic
I don't get this autism

Lets get this back on track
Did (you) fill out the survey?
I did and while I was a little hesitant to give a username I answered honestly.
I put the main attraction to the series as the girls, as that is my honest opinion. what about you guys?

Also I put my favorite as Reimu, since she is objectively the best girl

>>43681850
>autistic
I'm tired of this meme, actual autists cannot use 4chan. To be able to use 4chan you need to be competent in interpreting social cues from pure text (sometimes with images) in order to know what and what not to post. On most other social media sites (twitter, reddit, etc.) the rules are clearly and explicitly written so it's easy for actual autists to follow them. On 4chan on the other hand, every board has its own set of implicit and unwritten rules and culture that posters have to follow, these rules can only be known by "lurking moar". During the process of "lurking" the person must be able recognize patterns of posting in order to imitate their style and to not make any mistake that will reveal them to be a "newfag". The interpretation of all this social information requires a good amount of social intelligence. Thus on 4chan, unlike other social media sites, one requires a greater social mental capacity in order to post competently. Hence, contrary to popular belief 4chan is not filled with autists, quite the opposite actually. Real autists cannot assimilate nor interpret social cues easily due to lack of said social intelligence. Real autists will try act based on what they think is normal and as such they will be ironically called "normalfags" when posting here. And it's even more ironic because the people who assimilate and adhere most strictly to imageboard culture are the least likely to be autistic.

>>43681910
I enjoy this copypasta but yes, it is autistic
Case in point: your post

>>43681850
I did. Seems like nearly all of these will just be looked at statistically as spreadsheets. Understandable, not like having a bunch of text to read would be viable for a quick stream.

>>43681850
Ok I filled the survey.
The main attraction for me in touohu was music. Never have i ever experienced a such strong eargasms since i discovered touhou music, everything else for me is secondary to the music. I judge characters based on their music theme and i give characters personalities based on their music themes, my favorite characters are also the one who have the best music themes.
I don't like Reimu, her music theme is nice but she stole it from Elis and i like Elis's theme more because it's darker.

>>43663146
>Shit, I'd even argue a good chunk of the official manga just turn characters into different ones entirely with very little input from ZUN.
What? ZUN writes the fucking print works and manga. He literally said in CoLA that Reimu's personality shifts a bit because each manga protag views her differently.

>>43681850
I put my username as Anonymous, so hopefully they count me.
I picked one of my other favorites that doesn't get many votes during the official polls (Seiga), I wish there were multiple options though.
Focused on lore/characters with my answer because I haven't seen many series like it, many try, but they're not the same.

>>43681850
I had a hard time trying to pin down my enjoyment on one thing. I quite enjoy the official games (and fan games too), but I feel like my enjoyment is enhanced by the community and fan works giving extra meaning to accomplishments in the games.
I'm not sure if I described it properly, but I suspect a lot of people feel the same way.

>>43682315
Same for me actually, greatly enjoy the lore and setting combined with the great community and doujin scene.
I am a gamelet but I greatly enjoy the printworks and despite being absolute ass at bullet hell games it do try to beat them casually.
>>43682193
Yes there isn't much like it that is rather loose with their IP to the point where fans can take the series wherever they want for the most part. Everything else is rather corporate owned or has very restricting rules around it.

>>43679612
>one weird thing that is a bit annoying is that they duplicated onomatopoeia
I think that's standard when Yen Press localizes manga. It's like that in my volumes of Azumanga and Yotsuba too. I guess I can also see the argument of artistic integrity, where sometimes the onomatopoeia is drawn rather expressively

>>43682335
I too am a gamelet, the only games I can beat is PoFV or the fighters. I've gotten better at other bullet hells because of getting my ass kicked in the mainline games though. Funny how that works.

>>43681850
Fuck you for thinking discussing things at length and detail is "autistic". People like you are why modern 4chan is shit and reply with simple bot tier opinions hidden behind layers of irony instead of genuinely saying what we think. Do you want us to act more like /v/ where we only post stale regurgitate memes as catchphrases every post? As expected of a waifushitter.

>>43684025
Out of all the things to discuss in depth it's fucking KKHTA. Get over yourself.
>waifuahitter
Go back to r/Touhou.

So uh, question, what the hell do they mean by username. Twitter? Pixiv?

>>43684025
No, I'm fine with autistic discussion
About KKTHA of all things and if the creator is a true touhou fan while getting into literal semantics over what a fanwork is in a thread about a survey? No thanks, remain on topic please

>>43692210
They probably mean a general username, as in how normal people use the same username for every account. I just used my Pixiv.

>>43681850
I put down my main enjoyment is the characters and lore. Gensokyo and the rules behind are interesting, and the characters are fun. It's just fun to read and shitpost on the jay about. It helps that I've always had an interest in mythology and the occult (and cute anime girls) The music is great obviously, and I wouldn't call the games bad by any means but I really suck at them and they can try my patience to be honest.

>>43692263
>if the creator is a true touhou fan
>what a fanwork is
I don't know which thread you were wearing, but the discussion in this one was explicitly not about these things.

>>43684025
Based olfag. You fucked up a little with the waifu thing but yeah, newfags thinking they're hotshit for posting the same stale memes deserve to be called out.

>>43679612
It’s shit.

>>43698576
Waifufags are cancer though

>>43701474
What, the French translation?

About "Akyu Hiedano": at least they try to justify it with wanting to have the first name be written first.

>>43659701
When and where will this touhou station stream be?

>>43701492
Waifufagging is part of the culture though. I understand if you mean newfags pretending to be actual waifufags, but original waifufags would probably mock at them.

>>43706952
If waifufagging is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Bump.
Deadline is tomorrow.
So when will this stream be? Anyone has links?

>>43702590
>>43709160
I don't think a date has been announced yet. It's an irregularly airing show. It will be broadcast live here though:
https://www.youtube.com/@touhoustation

>>43671453
most "KKHTA fans" are just retarded twitter teenagers that saw a meme about le schizo koishi and fishing rods
yes they make up the bulk of them now

>>43715244
Its basically one big meme now, overinflated by "content creators".