/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Hot lesbian sex

I want to impregnate both of them

>>42977861
ZUN doesn't do "endgames" with characters. There might be endings to plot threads, but the characters continue to exist in their limbo forever

>>42977861
>so what's ZUN's endgame
liver failure

the problem is that they are from the future. so even if they have met Gensokyo, it may not be the one from the same time that the games take place.
I think it's because of this contradiction that ZUN doesn't use them as much anymore. the connection with Sumireko and Yukari makes the matter even more complicated.

>>42978034
I mean, that's life. It's not like you're going to disappear after you graduate from college or anything.
Kasen and Kosuzu already had their endgame, but that's not why they ceased to exist.

>>42978614
Sorry but that wasn't TRUE Kasen endgame. True Kasen endgame is tied to oni endgame overall which can't happen until the 4th Big One is revealed.
Kosuzu on the other hand you're right about.
>It's not like you're going to disappear after you graduate from college or anything
I mean, the "you" that was a student and the "you" that exists even just a year after graduating are pretty different I'd say. At some point the "you" that was "you" will disappear, replaced by a new "you".

>>42977861
To reminds us how yukarin would've looks if she were an actual 17yo jk instead of the hag she is in gensokyo

>>42977861
I don't know if i heard this on a reddit comment, youtube video or in this website, but this has been in my mind for years.
"Touhou lore is like the force in star wars, the more you think about it the more confusing it gets."

>>42979439
i don't like star wars.

>>42979021
The 4th big one is Miyoi
>"you" that was "you" will disappear, replaced by a new "you".
That's why too many Reimus?

>>42979705
I refuse to acknowledge that theory, no matter how certain it may seem, solely because I don't care for Miyoi.
The Reimu situation is because everyone perceives Reimu differently, and each story is told by an unreliable narrator. The real Reimu is someone that only exists in the games.

>>42979705
>The 4th big one is Miyoi
It's not gonna happen, just get over it

>>42977861
The moral of their stories is "Reject modernity, embrace tradition". They serve just as a contrast to Kensokyrö peeps

>>42981042
>>42981220
it was just a joke.

>>42981449
The real joke is using touhou as a distraction from how much you have failed at life, and will, form sheer laziness, not from inability, never have a normal functioning relationship or job.
Meaning i'm the best comedian of them all!

>>42981556

>>42978592
>it may not be the one from the same time that the games take place
That's not really a problem, Maribel once accidentally visited Gensokyo hundred years in the past anyway so ZUN could easily makes her visit Gensokyo in present time if he wants to

>>42981272
They live in a literal Brave New World society.
I don't think anyone can really call it modernity when their culture is very alien to our own at the moment.

Question about shikigami. If they're basically programs you can install onto an existing being, how much of the original mind remains in control? Is it a sort of mind-merge where the original personality still persists while gaining that computational capacity?
The reason I ask is while Ran is a full shikigami, Chen is a partial one who's obviously more free spirited. Since she's "half-possessed" by the program right now, I'm just wondering how she might change once she fully embraces it.

>>42983185
>Is it a sort of mind-merge where the original personality still persists while gaining that computational capacity?
While Ran will never disobey Yukari's order, she's once in a while will acts in her own volition without her master's permission, and Ran also stated to have her own hobby and shit
So I guess you could say that part of the host's original personality will still linger around, but the shikigami "program" will override most of it anyway

>>42978034
Still, Maribel's boundary ability is shown to become more powerful throughout the album stories, so it's pretty clear ZUN have some plan for them

>>42979705
Reimu is an ass, never get too close to her
>t. innocent youkai

>>42984904
That's what I figured. I've always wanted to see Ran and her original self explored more, even just as an anecdote. Hell, most fan stuff doesn't seem to make the distinction anyway.

>>42981272
if someone actually bothered to read the main work of Lafcadio Hearn, they'd know that this is completely true. Gensokyo is Japan, isolated from the winds of modernity which Lafcadio despises. It represents a return to childlike innocence common to pre-industrial societies as seen in Hi-no-Mawari; Maribel's fascination with the supernatural is a fascination with something that has disappeared from her time, therefore it is fascination with the past.
This world vision has been present in ZUN's works since at least Touhou 3. It's not as if ZUN glorifies the past; but some of the characters do. More importantly, all characters who live in the future (our world) hate it, Yumemi included.

>>42987844
After hearing that he just doesn't remember about DiPP's story I'm now of the belief that he's really just winging it from album to album and doesn't have any particular end in mind

>>43002731
it's not like he didn't remember
he just didn't get immediately the reference to the pierrot and there were many other questions
i am not going senile

>>43002731
>>43002779
Give the man a little leeway, he wrote that 20 years ago. At the time TH6 was cobbled together in six months to have something to sell his album for getting into comiket or something.
That's why it has 6's songs mixed in with a lot of pc98 remasters (Reincarnation, Lovely mound of cherry blossoms [although that was seihou it still counts])

>>43002809
Enigmatic Doll is the best music he's ever made btw
Also the MIDI version of Vanishing Dream reminds me of it

>>43002828
It reminds me a lot more of Patchy's theme + her stage theme.
maybe a little bit of stage 5 EoSD?
EoSD occupies a weird space in that it feels and plays a lot like the pc98 games, but is completely divorced from them, and a lot of the songs have ve-ery similar motifs. Compare Cute devil innocence to Luna dial. I cannot unhear them overlapping now i've heard both.

>>43002877
Dunno I would even argue that the real break in terms of lore is Touhou 7. In 6 there's no mention of the barrier and Reimu must stop the mist in order to "not let it reach the human population". If I am not mistaken, it's generally agreed that this is a reference to the outside world (in modern lore), but if you see it's actually similar to the prologue of Touhou 1 (where Reimu must protect the humans from the youkai who live in otherworlds).
I truly believe ZUN only came to the modern concept of Gensokyo in Touhou 7. The name Gensokyo is curious in itself... I'd say he was probably planning to weave it more closely with PC-98 lore right until Touhou 9

>>43002809
>Give the man a little leeway, he wrote that 20 years ago
I mean, I'm not insulting him. He hasn't written about Maribel and Renko in 7 years, and I'm sure it's only because he just writes their stories when the mood strikes him, rather than because he has a specific endpoint in mind. That's just the sort of creator that I think he is.

>>43002937
Gensokyo was also the romanji title of Lotus Land Story, same character as Mu-GEN-kan.
TH 9 was a good game with an interesting concept, but i'm not sure if i'd rather that than the PC98 lore being woven into the modern era in some way.
As much as I like zun's story, I really liked what the last 2 games had set up. LLS leading into MS is just pure kino, both of them are simply fascinating in terms of story. Just think for a second, if instead of EoSD we had Kurumi and the tsu sisters + Yuuka and Elly having their characters fleshed out more.
And instead of PCB, we had Makai taking a more active role in whatever causes Reimu to go and beat them up for like the third time.

I do wish that the earliest chapters were not abandoned in favour of wiping the slate totally clean, but PoDD really had a few stolen characters, that might have actually landed zun in legal trouble if he handled things carelessly, so maybe it was for the best?
The original windows trilogy is still the best single character arc for Reimu, especially when you take the gap between EoSD and MS as being around six or eight years, with the portal to Makai being destroyed by Shinki in her rage against (the character), maybe Mima has to fight Alice to a standstill to prevent a mass exodus from the ruins of Makai to GS? And she has to seal herself within Makai for some reason to keep everyone else safe, in a cheesy "Bad guy sacrifices themself after discovering they were never truly evil after all" way.

Just some thoughts, i guess, which is all there ever will be again i think.

>>43003054
Well, it's not like it's a completely blank slate. He has been quoted as much.
I like everything he has done, but he shouldn't have given up so much in the old works. It seems that he is unsure about what do with it; in a recent interview or something he even said that he takes people inquiring into PC-98 characters as requests. Who knows what will happen.

But canonically EoSD can't be too far from MS. In the .txt files, it is stated at Reimu's profile:
>Chronologically this title is not too far from the previous title, thus her age stays the same as before.
I would put the time difference at 3 months to a year. Reimu herself also says that it's been a while after the last time she went out, so...

>>43003054
>>43003150
Also, if I were to think about what happened between MS and EoSD, I would say that Reimu reached an agreement with Shinki to close the border and all possible weak points in it. Surely Makai inhabitants could breach it once, but as Reimu has powers over boundaries it's likely that she reinforced it, or Shinki decided to actually act for once and built a strong barrier.
As for Alice, she left in the extra stage of all characters. Mima's probably biding her time. I'm sure she will soon appear, my bones tell me.

>>43003150
There is hope?
Although maybe this is due to people spamming where mima is. As much as I like that mem(a), I'd say that if she doesn't come in 20, it's simply never going to happen full stop. 19 is a weird number for something as big and hyped as Mima coming back, so it'd have to be 20.
20 is obviously a special number, so at the very least in a few years when zun gets his act together again I hope we can expect something really good, at the very least. By now it's a near herculean task to weld the two lores together, and he's said to have not been interested, but for a 20th entry in a game series? that'd be along the lines of getting people *very* excited.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but it's fun to speculate and I think my reasoning in this area is solid enough to draw the vaguest of conclusions from someone as unpredictable as ZUN.
mark my words, if Mima is to come back, or Shinki or Makai being... explained? ( I have no idea why 13 went to makai and retconned it to be entirely different. My best guess to how to resolve this is that Shinki destroyed most of the land, and the red mist is leftover destructive magic because demons) It'll be in 20, MAYBE 25 if we get there. but that's in the air, even though TH seems to be becoming a bit more widespread, it's still just zun doing it, and the guy's getting older. by the time 25 happens, he'll probably be in his late 50's, and fuck it, he might just retire or something before then, hand it off to someone else. I don't see him doing that, but people change as they age, and he's been doing this for a quarter century.

>>43003201
Japs don't like Mima as much as westerners do, so I doubt he's getting spammed. I feel like he could bring her without it having to be a major happening.
Also I don't think 12 retconned Makai... Really, both Reimu and Marisa recognize it. The red areas are similar to other extreme parts of Makai like Shinki's final background. Really, it's the most recent reference to PC-98 and I feel like it's a good one. Makai has always had inhospitable areas, like the World of Ice and Fire and the Fallen Temple. I think that Reimu forcefully closing the barrier is what keeps the Makai denizens from appearing in more recent games. Until Yukari weakens the border for whatever reason.
I hope he never retires, but the thought scares me

>>43003165
>As for Alice, she left in the extra stage of all characters
That's remember me:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2fHf4LwxDL4

>>43003251
I kinda assume that Makai is a place where common sense doesn't apply too well.
In my head, it looks like Alice's MS background, which is inaccurate, but I like to think that it's really patchy with what kind of environment you are in. The closer you get to Pandaemonium, the more and more common sense is subverted, apart from the outer wastes/mountains maybe.

>Japs don't like Mima as much as westerners do
You're probably right, for some reason there are too many kids in the west with unrestricted internet that somehow get themelves into a weird offshoot of the """fandom""" that autismo post low quality shit like that. In comparison, Touhou in Japan is just another franchise, that doesn't attract weird outcasts like it does in the west for some reason, eg. gachalife cringe (I had to fucking step back to admit i even knew about that).

On the topic of gatekeeping, I don't like the obsession with yuri some people have. I get it's hard to write anything but that in a series with, count, ONE guy, (who actually matters and has a body), but it's always low effort and lazy.
Part of the reason I dislike shipping in general is because of people making everyone gay or bi or some other godamn made up shit, regardless of the fact that at MOST 5% of a given population would freely choose to enter a homosexual relationship. I admit, I get bored during lectures and look up fanfiction to kill time, and I can say that most of it is utter garbage. Some are good, even though the isakaya plotline has run dry for original content, but most writers on these sites i think kinda shoehorn politcs and intersectionality into this shit, which I as a based and redpilled 4chan enjoyer find distasteful. Sometimes I can look past it, but I can still tell it's there, usually because of genz/millenial/zoomer writing style (eg. Using really colloquial phrases that aren't really in line with the setting or character, no subtlety or letting checkov's gun hang for a while as you build up the storyline) It's a shame, the lore of touhou almost requires a human to be gapped in by Yukari, and with a specific set of requirements for that to make sense. It's kinda why FO3 had worse roleplaying elements right from the get go compared to NV; FO3 *decided* major aspects of the player character, while NV left the player to make up their own backstory, as damn near anyone can be a mailman for a bunch of reasons, but not everyone can be born into a vault and then thrown out for some dumb bullshit.
Getting back to the point, despite being fairly new and having just autistically absorbed 20 years of content in a relatively short amount of time, (Less than two years, but I won't get more specific), I can already feel the urge to tell people to fucking check the lore before writing their Koishi x Marisa tumblrfest of gayness.
These people have a hard time just accepting that women can have platonic relationships, and that the generic slut from today is miles away from the previous generation, and TH occurs in a pretty damn conservative society. The Patchy-Alice-Marisa love triangle pisses me off in particular, due to the fact that the whole thing is based off of Marisa being a mix between a charming tomboy and a burglar, which SOMEHOW is supposed to translate into a yuri thing.
I forgot where I was going with this, but I think I've illustrated my point, although I'm sure it's gonna be a wordwall.

>>43003404
Makai is Shinki's creation, and it's beautiful. Alice's background and Elis' background are specially beautiful for me. But it's pretty varied, from the otherwordly stars of MS stage 2 to the wastelands of stage 4. I feel like Windows Makai is just a desolate region, probably "Rural Makai". The cities are nicer.
As for Mima, well I think it's more complicated. While it is definitely true that there are lower effort Mima retards, like people who think she's hostile to Reimu, there seems to be a level of fascination in the Western mind with her that is simply unparalleled in Japan. I don't know if it's her personality; it's not even that rare of a personality type in Touhou, Yuuka is somewhat similar. Perhaps it's western fetishism trying to get to the "soul" or "origins" of Touhou, but I truly believe there's more at play here.
I've no idea what NV or FO3 is, so I couldn't understand that second part of the post as well. However, yeah it's annoying how many people don't care about the plot, but I take solace in the few that do. Actual moments of intimate relations between women happen in Touhou, but none of them is yuri. I really like the pre-battle conversation between Shinki and Yumeko; the way Shinki calls her "my dear Yumeko" really highlights how much Shinki cares about her creations and how any theories she destroyed Makai are utterly senseless and baseless. The only homo moment in Touhou is Reimu mocking Meira; even then it's explicitly humorous

>>43003483
Slight correction: Stage 2 is the space between worlds, also where Mugenkan happens to be generally located, possibly due to it being easier for a non-deity to manipulate matter by suggestion if there's nothing there to say otherwise

I was referring to Fallout 3 & Fallout: New Vegas, although you don't need to know the overarching story to get my point. The argument I was trying to make hinges on FO3 having a pre-set backstory for your character when they leave the tutorial, while FNV says *nothing* about the Courier themselves, only that they got tangled up in the whole mess of the game's stroy by pure chance. I think I lifted it from something I watched a month or two ago, so it's not really my own argument.

I like to think that Shinki felt personally challenged by (Probably Yuuka, she trolls HARD in pc98), and kept using more and more force to try and kill her. Utlimately, she fails to kill (The protagonist, who I think in this line of reasoning would be Yuuka), and in the process lays waste to the world around her. There is a brief bit where you can see buildings in the background, that look to be in front of fire. Or they could be rocks/ the red background is Makai mist and I'm looking to find what I want in it. Remember: In real life good people can do bad things, or in doing what they think is good leave a lot of collateral damage.
This would also make the introduction of spell card rules a lot more sensible and satisfying, as it would make a lot more sense than Remy just... Handicapping herself to stop *Herself* from doing whatever she wants? Does that sound like Remilia to you? It would make a lot more sense for [Yuuka] to tell Reimu about what happened/ Everyone finds out what happened anyway, and the sheer scale of what happens with lethal damnaku on a grand scale like Shinki uses to traumatize people into limiting their magic for the sake of the relm's existence.

It's not really all that canon, but I think it makes more sense and is close enough that i'll say it when the topic comes up, and defend it if needs be.

>>43003623
Yeah Stage 2 is the space between worlds but it isn't necessarily the same as Mugenkan, just as it probably isn't the World of Empty Dreams of Touhou 2. It's the border between Gensokyo and Makai, but it's closer to Makai, and there's a Makai native there, so... There are other spacey-looking areas in Makai. Stage 3 of MS should suffice, for despite the red bricks under them there are still red stars.
Well, about Shinki:
I don't think she caused as much damage as is generally implied. For starters, after the battle Yumeko is hiding behind her, showing that at least it was a livable space. I haven't seen Marisa's ending yet, but Reimu talks quite a lot to Shinki while still in Makai. If it was very dangerous to stay there, she would have fled or something, yet she simply mocks Shinki, as does Yuuka.
Afterwards, in Reimu's ending Makai's denizens have enough vitality and free time in their hands to force open a passage to Gensokyo, so I doubt that Makai was in a state of disarray. The destruction in Shinki's last background was caused as much by her as by the player; Reimu destroys the door to the Netherworld in Touhou 7, and the whole reason everyone comes to fight you in MS is because of the immense ruckus the player is causing. I bet the fire didn't spread anywhere except for Pandemonium, and even then perhaps it is a permanent feature of the landscape. Makai is diverse.
Direct quote from Reimu's ending, Shinki says:
>(Sob sob)
>(She just wrecked this place and went home...)
No battle in PC98 is deadly... The characters joke around with death as much as they do in Windows. Heck, Kyouko says she'll kill you. Danmaku has always been an art prized more for its artistic beauty than by its killer potential.
Spellcard rules were mostly created to make an even playing field and let both Youkai and the shrine maiden win.

>>42979021
Scary… but there is no point in fearing the unstoppable I suppose

>>42983185
It’s strange since SSiB implies it’s a full-control possession with the crows and Yukari’s two shikigami that possessed them; after she released the crows from shikigami, they zipped away like a regular startled bird would.

I wonder how true that statement that Mima is not that popular in Japan.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=slVPS_VJqhs
I think it's just an exaggeration. I think Mima is just as popular as any other character. I just think it's just that in Japan fans don't have that meme of crying and throwing shit at every new thing ZUN does just because Mima doesn't show up.

>>43005675
It's one music by a major record. Even Sariel has that.
Mima is recognized as part of a "Big 3" of PC-98 in Japan, sometimes a Big 2 with Shinki, but in the West she's by far the most popular. You can check YouTube videos, Twitter accounts, and God forbid even r/touhou's banner has her. Her popularity in the West is definitely in a different level; the popularity of PC-98 in general it's in a different level. Many Japanese artists wouldn't dare to draw a PC-98 character, but I have barely seen western artists with such a restriction.

>>43004161
I like my theory better, even though it's not necessarily canon.
I like speculation on what exactly the fuck is going on in Touhou's story, so having a discussion like this is fun for me.

That being said, I do think the danmaku style in 98 would fit in better with everyone actually trying to hurt each other, instead of just playing games like spell card rules imply. At the very least, Reimu & Marisa are seriously putting themselves in danger, whereas the others can tank damage due to being youkai/makai people.
How this translates over to mima and yuuka in MS is a big hole in this, but maybe getting hit dents their pride too much? I don't know, but spell cards absolutely turned danmaku into a safe-ish game for youkai, whereas before it is implied that they at least get hurt quite badly.
In general, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation on how everything's supposed to tie together. But the best works for me have som blood and gore when things get nasty, when people throw away the rules and try to beat their opponenet into submission by any means necessary, even though that's not canon.

I would say to go with whatever you feel like, insofar as it makes sense to you / whatever you might write/come up with.

>>43008749
I also like this sort of speculation. It's good to have a lore thread like this, and obviously our visions and interpretations of canon are tinted by our tastes and hopes.
As for danmaku in PC-98, certainly it was rowdier, and the draft of the spell card rules seems to imply it so. That said, I prefer a vision where the darkness of Gensokyo lies underneath, and the danmaku battles are more festive and calm compared to what goes on behind the scenes. In MS specifically, it seems rather that Reimu and Marisa are putting others in danger; all dialogues from stage 3 onwards imply so, Alice's passionate defence of Makai being one of my favourites. Heck, even Orange in Touhou 4 implores to not be sealed:
>I don't want to die yet!
But, given that the sealed spirits flee away in Reimu's endings, I doubt that she kills or otherwise erases most youkai from existence. It's just friendly banter, sometimes with more serious threats, but rarely these threats are implied by terms of danmaku. No one has the reins over canon except ZUN, so this whole theorizing is nice.

What do the few of you here who haven't completely lost their minds think about Yuuka? Something with slightly more substance than the usual answers, even if they aren't wrong. My brothers are failures, and my own thoughts on the topic have gotten completely out of hand.
>>43002697
Incredible, I was almost beginning to think that nobody else came to this conclusion. Admiteddly I haven't engaged with Hearn too much other than Kwaidan many years ago and a few sections of Japan: An Attempt at Interpretation, but there's a half-paragraph near the beginning of the latter that always struck me as being a major point of reference for the idea underlying Touhou. Whether he manages to capture the feeling of such a description is debatable but at least some of the people here ought to have had moments where they thought he did.

>>43011180
My brother in Christ, you are asking the right question.
Personally, Yuuka is my favourite by a long mile. Her dialogue is really funny, she has an entertaining attitude to things, and she is the embodiment of Youkai Moe~

Now that my personal feelings are out of the way, I think that she's a massive troll who will take every single oppertunity to fuck with people.
She's powerful enough to not have to worry about repurcussions (At least from most people, the Yama would obviously wipe the floor with her, but the Yama would wipe the floor with anyone if her job actually required her to do so)
Between her and Yukari, I think Yuuka relies on pure brute force to get through; She's not one for long term scheming unless it's for trolling people, and is a fairly direct person all round, while Yukari always seems to answer in riddles and employs a lot of circular logic, but relies a lot more on skill and cunning rather than Masta Supark ing her enemies away. In terms of battle? They'd both probably have a hard time killing each other, due to Yuuka's unmatched endurance (She's the only boss you have to face twice in a row, and doesn't seem bothered after you defeat her either) and Yukari's gapping.
Yukari is unquestionably overpowered, but facing someone who pretty much just sledgehammers any opponent she can't just passively scare off? She might have trouble, depending on how exactly "Boundary manipulation" works, and how difficult it is for her to change more abstract ones.
As for the sunflower thing, I like to think that's just her hobby that she's naturally really good at. Flower manipulation is useless in combat, but she doesn't need it to be because she, again, just uses brute force and raw power to do what she wants. I don't think it makes her a "plant youkai" in any way, she's an ancient demon who just *happens* to have the two of hearts in terms of offensive abilities, since her actual ability is only revealed in the ending scene of LLS, as the punchline of the game, seeing as this all-powerful demon who employs a vampire and a grim reaper to guard her house has one of the most useless abilites imagineable (Except, because she has ridiculous quantities of energy/power, she can make a giant lotus destroy the shrine, although that's like taking a zip 22 to a gunfight and managing to win through sheer skill)
Some people like to make out she's some sort of alien with zero human reasoning whatsoever, while the truth is more like she just doesn't care so long as she has her fun. If you've lived for say, three thousand years, you'd probably get a little bored, and start trouble just to have something to do, but not anything serious, as most of the incidents in windows are caused by someone trying to do something major, while Yuuka would start a fight simply to fight.
I wouldn't call her the USC, as in canon she's pretty tolerant of people visiting her garden, it's when Cirno/Mystia start horsing around and drawing attention to themselves that she goes over to beat them up, although she *actually gives Mystia a warning* that she's going to fight someone soon that she can't run away from.
To summarize, Yuuka isn't really a sadist or psychopath, just someone who likes fighting and with a random autistic love for flowers. She enjoys beating people up now and again, sure, but that's nothing special, and is fairly proud of herself, but content to rest on her laurels, confident that only a handful of people in existence could ever hope to challenge her.
In all likelehood, she might be the missing sage of Gensokyo, who doesn't care too much to brag about doing something not related to her sheer strength, which would be a pretty Yuukarin thing to think, after all.

>>43011349
I can agree with parts of what you said but a few are plainly mistaken.
The way I see it, Yuuka is direct in combat because she has nothing to prove, and so scheming would come off as too under-handed for her. In conversation she is somewhat-direct since her meaning is fairly clear in most cases but she likes to couch it in her own terminology.
On a larger scale her potential dynamic with Yukari is interesting since she is in some ways Yuuka's opposite and enjoys indirect confrontation and uncertainty. When you actually look into things, however, the situation becomes slightly more complicated, since Yuuka in canon is fairly plain and straightforward but when looked at over the course of the series she might seem like a walking contradiction that ZUN never knew what to do with until somewhat settling on one thing for PoFV. In comparison, Yukari has been fairly consistent throughout, an amusing contrast with her ability. The clearest line connecting the two is their position as old and powerful Youkai that do not belong to a specific species. This allows them to stand in as general representatives of the upper echelon of significant Youkai, and very probably ZUN transferred this role from Yuuka to Yukari after the PC-98 migration. As far as a meeting between the two is concerned, I believe Gensou Shoujo Taisen portrayed that scenario very well. It is true, they showed clear bias towards Yuuka, which we can approve of, and some of the details might be a little forced, but the general trajectory of the conversation and its final resolution are top-notch.
You are also correct in asserting that she isn't completely without human reasoning, but she does think differently than most characters as a result of her intimate knowledge of life.
I have to disagree that her love of flowers is a random bit of autism, however, and this is both a common and a major mistake. To be brief, PC-98 Yuuka only has a tangential relationship with plants, through one of LLS's bad endings (the word Lotus as well) and her shot type in MS. At this stage she has no real significant connection to flowers. ZUN might have had some aesthetic idea in mind then but nothing conclusive. Seihou Yuuka is where this somewhat changes, most notably with her theme, which now directly mentions flowers. After this transitional period she shows up as the full-fledged Flower Master in PoFV. Simplifying what I believe was the thought process behind this decision, she was added to Seihou because she was completely different from the rest of the cast, and when you look at how she was different you see that her attack names have kanji in them, her theme is in an eastern style and she is a characteristically Japanese mythological creature. From here to PoFV ZUN would have merely had to emphasize these strong Japanese characteristics and then outfit them with an appropriate vocabulary concerning natural phenomena, a favorite topic in the Far East. Consequently Yuuka's more rambunctious tendencies were downplayed while giving her a far-reaching and even eminent position in the overall framework of the series. Against this background, Yuuka's love of flowers is no longer a queer hyperfixation, but the expression of an entire worldview and way of life through a seemingly simple language of flowers.

>>43012023
I more or less agree with you, I don't type my posts into a text document beforehand or anything, so it's a little hard to remember what I was talking about before going on a tangent.
I like to think that as little changed as possible between MS and EoSD, so I'm trying to get both within the same framework. To this end, the flower thing is still to me the ending joke of LLS that got translated into a fixation, as you said.
I'd have to agree with you though, in that 98 Yuuka was very western indeed, while PoFV Yuuka is more eastern. I'd like to think that having a large garden gave her perspective on life as a whole, which is why she would describe things using flowers and plants as metaphors. Ultimately, the entire overarching theme of PoFV is death, reabirth, and the general tendancy for history to repeat itself, hency why the Yama is dressed in a variant of a general's uniform (I'm pretty sure). It would make sense for her to deal with these topics, and "the flower thing" is simply the metaphor she's most familiar with.
I wouldn't say she had necessarily an intamate connection with life, though. Flower manipulation is always portrayed as a pretty direct ability, with no metaphorical blooming or flowering of anything other than actual flowering plants, which is something some people theorize and take as fact.
In short, PoFV's scenario just happens to line up beautifully with Yuuka's ability, as well as her age/direct nature lending her a little more knowledge on things that anyone else but Komachi and Eiki. There's a short story by ZUN set sometime after (?) the events of PoFV, where Yukari and Yuyuko discuss why the cycle of 60 years happens, and in it it's stated that despite their massive ages, neither of the two can really remember all that long ago, and 60 years is a little farther back than Yukari can clearly grasp. (Yuyuko is too busy wondering about food and tea in this bit, and doesn't appear to actually listen all that well)
Yuuka, on the other hand knows *exactly* what is happening, and takes the oppertunity to mess with people. I'd say it's due to her more direct nature compared to Yukari, leading to a firmer grasp on things that happened in the past, and since she's a natural suspect for people who don't know what's going on, by being purposefully vague about certain details, and leading people down the garden trail a bit (hah hah), she can rile them up enough for a good fight. This is, to me, why she acts a lot differently in PoFV, she is being intentionally obtuse in her own way in order to have an excuse to fight people, as that's all she needs to do in that scenario, which is far easier to do, and far easier to clear up once she has had her fun with everyone.

>>43012362
Getting a good grasp on Yuuka is difficult since there always seems to be some detail which precludes a thorough and complete characterization. She's very eastern in the ways I've described, especially in her general view of the world and existence, but 98 Yuuka had a mansion and two servants who do not have much to do with anything eastern (you can debate the specifics of this, of course). She's fairly feminine in most ways but 98 Yuuka wore pants and Windows Yuuka has short hair, which would not be considered traditionally feminine. Sunflowers have much less overall cultural importance for the Far East than a variety of other flowers. This sort of thing can go on for a while.
For PoFV, I've heard about the matter regarding Eiki's uniform and it is plausible. More to the point, there's a clear connection between history and nature in this context. Nature undergoing a sort of transformation that aligns with some dangerous historical incident in the outside world is not a matter of happenstance but a direct link, a clear statement on the correlation between natural and human affairs that has been a staple in those regions since ancient times. The gameplay also tries to reflect this. Accordingly, the last three characters you unlock in PoFV all know what is happening (even if it technically took Yuuka until stage 6 to remember exactly what the occasion was, slightly going against her profile, though these can be reconciled as you will see) but they exhibit different attitudes toward it. To quote what I wrote down somewhere,
>Komachi feels responsbility and anxiety, Eiki considers it descriptively and practically, and Yuuka embodies it.
This is to say, the other two take matters somewhat seriously, while Yuuka is enjoying herself, she is living the flower incident. Here I have to disagree once more, since, while I'm sure she enjoys a good fight here and there and was certainly willing to tussle with Eiki, most of the fights were incidental. Observing flowers and playing at danmaku are both fun, and while she never tried to prevent some of the other participants from suspecting her or misunderstanding what she was saying, I think she was not actively looking for a fight.
It is also because of PoFV's unique and open-ended setup that even Yuuka's ability starts to seem suspicious. Sure, all canon information points to the fact that it refers to literal flowers and nothing besides, trying to extend that ability in it's practical implications to something on the level of life manipulation or soul manipulation would be excessive. Nevertheless, outside of strict ability talk, Yuuka herself never talks about flowers as though they were just literal, empirical flowers. She is constantly comparing the people she meets to flowers, and ties greater life processes together with floral language. That is why I said she has an intimate connection with life, even if "understanding" might be better than "connection", since she is constantly doing the PoFV work of observing and commenting on the interrelations between living beings, their environment, and their behaviour. This is all done in a fairly simple manner but it has a certain charm.

>>43002963
>He hasn't written about Maribel and Renko in 7 years
That's just because he hasn't released any new music collection to put their story onto

>>43004986
>crows
It's a literal bird anon, of course they barely have any personality in the first place

>>43002731
Wasn't he retconned that story?

>>43020205
No?
I don't recall he ever saying something like that
It's just got a really unclear place in canon, given that we know almost nothing about it.
But it definitely is canon. ZUN hasn't retconned anything clearly, the most he has said is to take the latest works as the best source of canon.

>>43020612
He's never stated it, but the story itself got replaced with just commentary when he's rereleased the album

>>43022068
The commentary is completely complementary to the original story though.

>>43002697
>childlike innocence common to pre-industrial societies
I think this a distorted view of the past. The Industrial Revolution is only 200 years old and even then modern society really has its roots in the 1500s with the Renaissance. What we call modernity is only a few hundred years old.
History is littered with wars and genocides and death and suffering and hardship. There is a certain simplicity in a simple life as we all know but to project that to civilization as a whole is a mistake. Returning society to the pre-industrial age won't return innocence because that innocence most likely never existed. It was most likely an illusion that we projected on the past as a response to the present's failure to meet our expectations.
Gensokyo is a small isolated paradise where the inhabitants don't suffer the extreme hardships of the outside world in general. There are no wars. No natural disasters. No famine. No sudden changes in climate.
There are no real major disturbances which has become a running gag for fans.
It is an idealized view of the past but that's one of the main points of the series. It's a dream.

>>43022940
did you read Hi-no-Mawari? It's obviously a distorted vision of the past. However, all the characters who live in the future idealize this past and seek strongly to return to it. Whether it is Yumemi's obsession with magic, Maribel and Renko's obsession with the paranormal or Sumireko's obsession with Gensokyo, all characters from the Industrialized World seek to escape it and enter the era that they perceive as being purer, that being the pre-industrial era. Gensokyo is exactly that; if you read Hourai, you'd see that this was what Japan was to Hearn: a land where he could discover and enjoy that pre-industrial innocence.

>>43022940
>It's a dream
I see what you did there.

>>43022791
Not really

>>43026821
Yes it is faggot

>>43027332
Proof???