/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>4294747
more from the same artist?

Moon speak and arithmetic, this thread is clearly not for me.

I heard there's a Ronove tarot card out now.

Anyone have it/know which card it is?

>>4294818
What's this tarot card thing you speak about TELL ME THERE'S ONE OF KNOX

>>4294849
remember Jessica tarot card as the MOON, every umineko anime good comes with one, and no, there's no Dlanor, she didn't appear on the anime first season

>>4294807
Double moron!

Pick out the mary sues from that pic.
How many characters are left?

>>4294888
>implying either have any use in real life

>>4294904
One.

>>4294904
>mary sue

Get out, fanfiction.net devs.

>>4294907
Are you stupid or something?

>>4294918
I still don't understand the role of Erika in the plot.
If you ask me, Bernkastel and Erika should have combined to form a new better character, called... Bernkastel.
She should just have put herself on the gameboard as a piece (and by herself I mean HERSELF) and do what she does best, and we have a perfect, evil rival for Battler.

>>4294777

>>4294946
Why?

>>4294967

>>4294946
Yeah, if Erika doesn't come back through some convoluted means, her existence really was useless.

Then again, most of the meta characters are pretty pointless, filler roles. The man clearly needs to get better at writing stories.

>>4294967
Because she doesn't serve any purpose in the plot and fails in every regard as a character?

>>4294971

>>4294946
Fuck that shit.
A) A fight between witches is more like a proxy war. Both powers pick their pieces, lend some support to them and have them go at it. Direct intervention is incredibly rare and kinda ruins the entire exercise.
B) If Bernkastel had been on the board in Episode 5, who would have been the "final boss" of Umineko, since it seems likely that Umineko is going the way of the Cicada and gets completely hijacked by Rika?

>>4294975
The first part of your post is arguable (doesn't serve the plot) the second part is your opinion. So lets argue the first part:

She became the Detective, the only credible point of view in the game. That alone makes her a shitton important to the story and solving the mystery.

>>4294946
That's one of the things Ryukishi really needs to improve. He keeps adding more useless shit in every episode, specially with characters, that don't really do anything and aren't developed in any way.

I'm a little confused, but, uh... are people claiming that Hachijou Touya, a.k.a. Featherine Augustus Aurora, is Asumu?

>>4294747
Blanked at the moonspeak, but my god I love that picture.

Amakusa's fucking ready to kick ass. Just look at that.

>>4294777

Miwa Shirow is the artist.

>>4295003
Every new character introduced has a magical counter part with the exception of Gaap. They're the character development for the pre-existing characters.

>>4294999
>She became the Detective, the only credible point of view in the game. That alone makes her a shitton important to the story and solving the mystery.
Too bad we never get to see her narrating anything, and she rarely acknowledges facts on the gameboard... or anything for that matter. In fact she only managed to confuse me even more by indirectly acknowledging Kanon and Shannon as separate people.

>>4295026
But Gaap is Nanjo.

>>4294971
Those colors remind me of Dr. Seuss.

>>4295026
Gaap = Manon

>>4295026
Even if they are a counterpart they are still different characters. And besides, only two people have been confirmed to have magical counterparts. The rest are still either unexplained or based on objects or concepts.

>>4295026
It's pointless though, in the sense that if they were omitted, nothing would become more difficult to solve. They're just there for fan wanking and filler.

>>4295047
And yet the characters of the Meta World are about half of why I read Umineko.

>>4295028
And besides, face it, Erika is a really crappy detective, even worse than Battler.
She spends the night preparing seals and alibis, when Battler yells, she goes to check the seals BEFORE even confirming a crime has actually happened.
And when she FINALLY goes to the crime scene she chooses to completely trust the extremely suspicious old fat doctor. Seriously, at this point I was asking myself "Is this girl a fucking retard?". You go check the crime scene, but you don't actually check the corpses! I mean, wasn't the point of even going to check the crime scene to check the corpses as well, the most important part of the crime?

>>4295066
That's probably also because we get fuck all characterization from the adults(Rudolf/Kyrie/Gohda/Hideyoshi where?), and the cousins are boring assholes.

Meta is the only place where shit happens, which is pathetic for a supposed murder mystery.

>>4295106
HEY ERIKA IT'S STILL MORNING, WHO HAS BEEN DRINKING?

>>4294946
Erika's a parody/homage of the golden age detective who's a cunning mind but completely full of himself, a la Sherlock Holmes and Hercule Poirot. She uses Poirot's "little grey cells" catchphrase, has Holmes' obsession with scientific investigation, the combined pretentiousness of both, she's nosy and mean like the first version of miss Marple, etc, all that pushed to an extreme. Which is why she has Knox with her, since she's herself a walking golden age detective fiction stereotype she needs to enforce a golden age detective fiction environment to match.

Her role couldn't have been filled by a family member because to match this stereotype the detective needs to be totally unrelated to the crime. She's allowed to recruit a Watson/Hasting from the people present though. Battler kinda fit that at first but he's acting too clever to be a good Watson in the 5th game, though it's kinda justified by him turning out to be a Dr Shepard.

The detective role couldn't have been filled by Bernkastel either because Bernkastel doesn't fit the golden age detective stereotype in the first place.

>>4294747
So, whats with this bunch of numbers and Asumu?

>>4295066
Brofist because I agree.

>>4295118
I'm pretty sure that right around EP3 it stopped being a murder mystery, or at least most people gave up on the idea that it would ever return to the mystery it was in EP1. And yes, I know, >implying Umineko was ever a mystery and not just a magical pile of R07's shit.

>>4295118
Honestly, I've never viewed the mystery as the main focus.

>>4295176
I'm glad Ryukishi omitted Battler's inevitable next thought, which was likely something along the lines of, "You pretentious cunt."

>>4295151
I thought Battler only argued that he could have been the culprit. He never stated in red that he was the culprit for that game.

>>4294946

Erika was just a red herring for the mystery side, so that R07 could get some shit explained and done for the fantasy side.

>>4295164
The funny thing about that is that Episode 1 was just as much a gameboard as all the others, meaning we never got to see the original Rokkenjima anyway.

>>4295151
>Erika's a parody/homage of the golden age detective who's a cunning mind but completely full of himself
I get that she's a parody of a golden age detective, but you didn't get my point. My point was "why do we even need this character in the story, whose role could have been filled by someone else, who doesn't help the plot develop in anyway and contradicts herself most of the time". And by the way:
>Sherlock Holmes
>golden age detective

>Her role couldn't have been filled by a family member because to match this stereotype the detective needs to be totally unrelated to the crime
I never said this. I said her role could easily be filled by Bernkastel herself. I mean why not. Why is piece Erika different from Bern if they are the same person. This doesn't happen with other characters.
>She's allowed to recruit a Watson/Hasting from the people present though.
How do you know that? I mean, how the fuck do you know that? This is never mentioned or even implied at all. You just made this up.
>The detective role couldn't have been filled by Bernkastel either because Bernkastel doesn't fit the golden age detective stereotype in the first place.
Again, how do you know that? It has been shown that Bernkastel is really knowledgeable about the mystery genre, so why not?

>>4295186
That's true, however in the final stretch of ep5 with the golden truth he does subtly imply that he's seen Kinzo's dead body and lied about it or at the very least disguised it in his narration, like Shepard disguised his crime, and by that alone he proves he's no Watson, as a Watson shares everything with his detective and readers.

Umineko wasn't ever a great mystery in the first place. I'm not saying that it isn't a great story, it's just that as a mystery it's a bit lacking. It's always focused more on the non-mystery parts of the story.

I used to like the meta parts just as much as the game board parts, if not moreso. The majority of the asskicking either happened in fantasy scenes or the meta-world. I don't mind the grimdark in EP6 and, much as I hate to say it, I've been pretty much turned into a shipperfag for Beato and Battler.

But I want to fucking get back to the mystery, goddamnit. Ryukishi, could you seriously not give us the badassery that is finding the fucking answer and solving shit? That's just as awesome as magic fights. I can't wait for Bern to either show us a completely fucked up gameboard or a totally no-nonsense one, where everything is truth and facts and true facts. I want Battler or Beato fucking dead as cold earth so that I can stop fucking d'awwwing or bawwwing over them and concentrate on the story - and also so that we either get crazy ronery hobo Battler or a fucking rageful Beato.

>>4295201
Doesn't that totally defeat the purpose of Umineko Chiru? I mean, the guy himself said that the "mystery is solvable now" and that Umineko Chiru's objective is to slowly give away the answer and compare theories.
But End of the Golden Witch completely fails on this regard. The whole episode is like a big "that never happened". There are almost no hints for anything and just makes things more confusing in general.

>>4295252
Yeah, mostly this.

I think 5 and 6 really steered people away from finding out the mystery, because it's all moe moe love drama shit.

Look at the theories we have, it's not so much finding the culprit as it is "Who do we want to ship Piece Battler with?" If 7 is anywhere as good as it should be, I'll be happy. Hopefully Bern is the focus, since Battler is just going to be bawwwwwing impotently as usual, I want to see a traditional mystery, similar to EP1.

Umineko - Mystery with fantasy elements
Umineko Chiru - Romantic comedy with fantasy elements

>>4295279
End was about Beatrice and her motivations.

>>4295293

6 basically gave the answer away, he isn't even being subtle anymore.
You guys just refuse to look at that answer seriously.

>>4295307
What, are you suggesting Shkannon is the mastermind?

>>4295306
And we needed a WHOLE episode just for this?
And it's not like it has been completely explained, either.

>>4295316
Of course, it isn't even subtle anymore.
If you don't want to think about it because it disgusts you, just focus only on the meta-world part, or better yet just move on to another VN.

>>4295320
>>4295306
5 was more about shoving in our faces what sort of tale Umineko really is.
Erika basically sealed the deal on the FICTION theory, it wasn't even subtle.

I've basically given up on the mystery and Piece-Battler at this point.

Most I'm hoping for now is that Beato dies and Battler either can't or won't pussy out and bring her back again, leaving him to be a motherfucking batshit hobo. I don't hate Beato and I will bawww like a goddamned infant if Ryu actually manages to kill Beato and keep her dead.

Like another anon mentioned, both Ryukishi and I need the shipping distractions annihilated to get back to the mystery.

>>4295341
Right, the insane maid orchestrated this incredible chain of murders, looks like someone stopped thinking.

>>4295360
You are the one who stopped thinking.
But it's alright, just keep on focusing on shipping Battler and Beatrice in the meta-world, it's the only redeeming part of the game after all.
Except for the soundtrack either.

What really pisses me off is that ep5 is just really a transition to introduce us to the new character alingments.
You could probably recycle its (few) important points for episode 6, and then remove episode 5 completely and the plot would still make sense. Or even make more sense.

>>4295233
>How do you know that? I mean, how the fuck do you know that? This is never mentioned or even implied at all. You just made this up.
Maaaybe you should read up on golden age detective fiction. A detective needs a Watson, a slightly dim assistant which will work as a reader identification character (as specified in the *real* Knox 9th, which is about the Watson) he can talk to. And if you read the Hercule Poirot or Miss Marple stories, you will see that a Watson can be aquired on-site when a recurrent one is momentarily unavailable and still fill the role perfectly (even Sheppard, who is indeed slightly more stupid than Poirot)

Until their confrontation in Kinzo's study in which Battler outsmarts her Erika indeed acts as if Battler were her Watson.

>Again, how do you know that? It has been shown that Bernkastel is really knowledgeable about the mystery genre, so why not?
Being knowledgeable about a genre is not the same as being a character from that genre. Being a /jp/ anon you probably know a lot about anime schoolgirls but you'll never be an anime schoolgirl, you can only, at best, pretend to act like one. Bernkastel hasn't once displayed characteristics of a golden age detective despite knowing about them, so it'd require her to act totally out of character, she wouldn't be an embodiment of the stereotype. Because Erika really is a pretentious amateur detective she's more interesting for displaying the problems a golden age detective could face in a story with Ryukishi's rules.

>>4295415
>Being a /jp/ anon you probably know a lot about anime schoolgirls but you'll never be an anime schoolgirl

;_;

You mad?

Bern's piece should have been Rika.

>>4295450
>implying it wasn't

I love Ryukishi's art but the guy has three character designs.

>>4295450
> Furudo Erika
> Furud Erika
> Furuderika
> FurudeRika
> Furude Rika

>>4295233
Oh, and
>why do we even need this character in the story
Simply because Ryukishi likes to deconstruct detective fiction, so he's bringing the detective in just to explain his original point (mentioned in the "anti-mystery vs anti-fantasy" text IIRC) of a detective's job being hellish if he can't implicitly trust the facts established by the narration.

>Sherlock Holmes
>golden age detective

Sherlock holms, despite having been created earlier, is the basis and model for most if not all of the golden age tropes (as we've seen, to the point where the assistant is called the Watson in knox's 9th rule).

>>4295415
>(as specified in the *real* Knox 9th, which is about the Watson)
And this is where you got it wrong. Ryukishi's rules =/= Knox' rules. Even if Ryukishi tries to imitate Golden age detective structure, in the end he changes things to fit his plot, to his own convenience. Besides, the original rules also specify that the Watson's intelligence must be below that of the average reader, and even before the study scene Battler is outsmarting everyone, dincluding Kyrie.
>Being knowledgeable about a genre is not the same as being a character from that genre
And are you implying that Erika is a character directly pulled out from some golden age detective novel? I thought it was obvious that she was just a girl who reads too much mystery, and when a mystery actually happens she gets too excited over it. We can see in episode 5 that Bern can lose control of her emotions too, and I still don't see why Bern can't fill the stereotype, she hasn't acted like a detective because she hasn't actually participated in anything, she just pulled the strings from the metaworld. How do you know she wouldn't get excited as well and start to act like a detective if she was directly in the gameboard?

>>4295415
>Maaaybe you should read up on golden age detective fiction
By the way, this is quite a petulant comment, don't you think?

>>4295469
>>4295470

yeah but I want nipaa-ing Rika who pats Battler on the head and tells him everythings going to be alright.

>>4295374
Nah, Shkanontrice isn't a good answer to the mystery in any regard. Maybe if you had Kyrie or Jessica manipulating her, but having her kill everyone for some love while never quite actually showing any justification for this is kinda retarded.
It also makes all three relationships of the cousins cheap.

>>4295510
Bern will pat Battler on the head and tell him everything will be alright.

She will either have a knife in her hand as she pats his head or she'll mindhax him, either killing him or wiping his memories so he's back to hating Beato.

>>4295501
I think the problem is he's not very good at deconstructing detective fiction, nor do I understand where he got the idea he was capable of such a thing.

>>4295523
Sounds good to me.

She gave give a brilliant smile with a nipa, and in the next instant trollface and erase Beatrice from existence for like the sixth goddamn time, because no one dies in Umineko aside from Erika and Goldsmith.

>>4295543
>aside from Erika
Do you seriously believe that he's going to permanently kill off the most popular character?

>>4295519
Well, it's not like Shkanontrice assumes that it is just Sayo doing everything. Kyrie, Jessica, and Nanjo are certainly in on it. I would prefer it to be poor Shkanontrice being abused, as I can't reaaaaaaally feel too much for a girl who is in love, and still brutally murders, three different people.

>>4295549
If it was an author I had respect or trust in, I would be sure she'd come back.

But we're talking about Ryukishi, so yes, I seriously believe we'll never see her again. At best she'll get some retarded sub-character role like Ange had in 6.

>>4295523
>>4295252
I don't know where either of you got the idea that Meta-Battler could end up dead instead of Beato. It wouldn't really work, it would incite lots of rage, and Ryukishi wouldn't go near it.

So why is this growing on me even more than Crazy Ronery Hobo Meta-Battler?

>>4295519
The relationship of the cousins were always cheap.
And there is no mastermind behind the murderer, it was pretty clear if you actually paid attention to the game.
At most the murderer is following some master plan from Kinzo.

Beatrice is the one doing most of the killings in the fantasy scenes, either by herself or by using one of her furnitures.
The fantasy scenes have to show a side of the truth.
And we know that she doesn't do it for money, revenge, hatred or to make them fear her.
And nothing would have happened if Battler didn't come back.

Add to this the whole promise, the "without love it can't be seen" that is spammed to hell and back or Battler reaction after learning the truth and you realize what the answer is.

>>4295556
Why don't you trust Ryukishi? After all, Beatrice came back.

>>4295320
"end" does a bit more than just that. It lets the detective witness the pile of gold, it gives us a way the second twilight of the first game can be committed, it tells us Kinzo's body is still on the island, clarifies for how long he's been dead, tells us kinzo's study can be entered and exited without using the door (because if it's possible to climb down it opens the possibility of climbin up even without a ladder) and more. You've just gotta pay attention to details.

>>4295563
You know buddy, if Shkanontrice managed to murder 18 people all by herself, I'd be pretty goddamned impressed!
I suppose Jessica and Kyrie just lied to Battler in episode 4 for the lulz?

>Why is there a need for Erika

Hint: Remember that essay he wrote about anti-fantasy versus anti-mystery? Remember that part where he points out the inherent problem in that the character of the detective can only make his deductions with the underlying assumption that he has the author's (ie God's) license that he will find all the clues etc?

The whole point of the character of Erika is to show us just how much of a Mary Sue the traditional detective archetype is. That's why when everyone's crying over their dead family and you have Battler objecting to things like Erika storming in and disturbing the corpses, she can literally warp narrative causality to have her way. That's why during the Court of Illusions sequence, she was able to turn her deductions into red (it's the situation I explained above with the God of the story providing guarantees).

Basically, Ryuukishi's trying to make a point about the entire genre of mystery.

Another big problem I have with Erika is that it seems Ryuikishi has no idea what to do with her.
First she is introduced as a complete monster, and intellectual rapist, who receives sadistic pleasure from revealing the truth of people's secrets... and then she goes around makin up theories about Kinzo hiding corpses.
By the end of the episode she has been turned into a poor pathetic villain.
Then in ep6 he tries to make us sympathize with her with some emotional scenes with Dlanor, but BOOM, then suddenly kills 5 people and goes back to complete monster, just to prove that Battler is incompetent, something we already know since ep2.
Then out of nowhere in her final fight she has turned into a worthy honorable rival and is killed in the worst way possible to try to make us sympathize with her again.

...

Seriously, Ryukishi.

>>4295563
>And there is no mastermind behind the murderer, it was pretty clear if you actually paid attention to the game.
No. One can not murder an entire island's worth of people by one's self, one has to have help.

>>4295573
You are taking everything at face value.
Jessica and Kyrie could have lied for a lots of different reasons.
Because they were threatened for one, or because the life of someone they held dear was put on the line.

>>4295585
I wrote no mastermind, I didn't write no accomplices.
Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji are clearly accomplices.

And Rosa in episode 2 is one of course.

>>4295587
They called at nearly the exact same time. What, was Shkanontrice holding them both hostage? If you think it's one person doing all the crimes, you are doing it wrong.

>>4295578
What the fuck kind of point is he trying to make about mysteries? Start including love in them, and try to make them as contrived as possible? It's a little sad when he compares his story to real mystery novels, they're nothing alike.

>>4295578
My point was why did we need a new scrappy character for that? Why not just Bernkastel?
In fact, that would be the logic thing to do. They are supposed to be the same person.

>>4295563
>And nothing would have happened if Battler didn't come back.

This hasn't been confirmed. It's one of the things that wasn't repeated in red.

>>4295569
To be honest, I didn't want her to come back so soon.

I was expecting her death to be as traumatizing as 6 made it, but then Battler would have to drag himself up from the mud, then in the last episode the plot device kicks in, and he solves everything in front of her.

Instead we get dead in 5, revived in 6, angst angst angst, and now two more episodes, with some bullshit where she can get back her memories through a "miracle."

It just felt so contrived and cheap.

>>4295594
Rosa is one, Jessica always covering for Kanon, and the mere fact that she is close with Shannon and Kanon is one, Kyrie telling Battler to accept the witch is one, it's pretty damn obvious that Shkanontrice isn't doing this alone.

I however, am of the opinion that Shkanontrice is not the mastermind. A 12 year old forgetting a light-hearted comment does not a slaughter justify. There must be an actual evil at play here.

>shipping

What the fuck does this mean?

>>4295613
Oh Beato, you have some balls, trying to blame Battler, Miss KILLING FUCKING EVERYONE FOR LOVE.

>>4295616
This. This this this.

Ryukishi's bullshit about bringing her back so quickly pissed me off so much. I don't even give a shit about Beato any more. I want her dead, so that we can at least see Battler go completely insane, defeat all of the bad guys in a fucking rainbow text storm, kick ass in general and then ditch everyone to go bum around being a cool insane hobo who secretly misses his waifu.

Right when Battler's getting used to Moetrice again, Ryukishi.

Right when everything is happy, punch the reader in the genitals. The emotional genitals.

>>4295618
This. Battler not showing up to the island is only one of many reasons. Seriously, guys, if any of you want to believe in the DID meido, go right ahead. But if you seriously think the answer is so easy as TEH BUTLERMEIDO DID IT, well....

>>4295619
A particular pairing or couple is a ship. Like Beatrice and Battler.

For example, R07 is shipping when he includes the wedding shit. There's a difference between developing a relationship and pandering, goddammit.

>>4295583
He did the same with Beato. Introduced as total asshole. Episode 2 somehow makes her an even bigger asshole that likes to beat up and taunt people. 3 See moe side. Still asshole that likes to taunt people. Beginning of 4 still asshole, and forces Ange to kill herself for no other reason other than she wants her out of the game.

>>4295563
> Beatrice is the one doing most of the killings in the fantasy scenes
Because she's acting as a scapegoat and taking the culprit's/culprits' sins onto herself. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Beatrice of The Divine Comedy was also a person who took others' sins onto herself.

>>4295618
She isn't always covering for Kanon.
The only time she did was clearly because she knew that Kanon really isn't the social type.

Also you forgot Kinzo.
He is the one who wrote the epitaph, most likely prepared the bomb.
Perhaps he made a deal with Shannon, telling her that if Battler come back she would have to do the ceremony.
And to force her he instructed Genji or whatever to start the bomb during the reunion if Battler came back.

Knowing this and not being able to go against Kinzo, Shannon decided to go through the ceremony to bring everyone in the golden land so that they could be "saved" while still giving them the chance to find about the bomb and protect themselves by urging them to solve the epitaph.

>>4295651
Oh wow. Yeah, Kinzo banked randomly on some estranged grandchild of his coming back, set up a bomb, and Shannon decides "MEH WHAT THE HELL MIGHT AS WELL START MURDERING EVERYONE I CARE ABOUT".

I bet you think he raped her, too.

>>4295649
> and forces Ange to kill herself for no other reason other than she wants her out of the game.
Just how much attention did you pay the end of Episode 4? Because it wasn't like that at all.

>>4295504
>And are you implying that Erika is a character directly pulled out from some golden age detective novel?
Yes. She constantly acts like one, so that's obviously her role.

>And this is where you got it wrong. Ryukishi's rules =/= Knox' rules
I was using Knox's ninth to illustrate to you what a Watson is. But Knox isn't the one who invented the watson in the first place (Conan Doyle is, obviously), he merely wrote a rule based on the already used trope. It's a contraposition: if it fits Knox's rule it's a Watson, but if Knox's rule doesn't exist it doesn't mean a Watson will not fit the description

>Besides, the original rules also specify that the Watson's intelligence must be below that of the average reader, and even before the study scene Battler is outsmarting everyone, including Kyrie.
Well duh. I wonder if that has something to do with how I did mention Battler was too smart to be a Watson.

>>4295571
>It lets the detective witness the pile of gold
If you mean Erika, then it's useless since she never seems to acknowledge facts. By the way, I forgot, it was said with the red that gold existed, but was it said how much of it it was?
>it gives us a way the second twilight of the first game can be committed
Uh... there are many ways it could be committed and all of them were already discussed. If this really was a hint, it was a lame one.
>it tells us Kinzo's body is still on the island, clarifies for how long he's been dead
Yes, it confirms it. In a very, very contrived way, but it does. However I wouldn't take that scene as completely clarifying the time of death.
>tells us kinzo's study can be entered and exited without using the door (because if it's possible to climb down it opens the possibility of climbin up even without a ladder)
Oh... but since Kinzo is dead this doesn't seem really useful for eps 1-4, does it...

Anyways, all of these hints were confirmed in a very contrived and cheap way (due to the own narrative nature of episode 5) and they could have been easily recycled for ep6.
Seriously, did I need an entire episode just to have been told what kind of tale I was reading?

Note
all [brackets] are plays on words on kanji with similar pronounciation and the like
all (parenthesis) are notes from me

伊(い=1) - I
藤(とう=10) - tou
幾(いく=19) - iku
九(きゅう=9) - kyou
郎(ろ=6) - ro
〇(まる=0) - maru
五(ご=5) - go
七(なな=7) - nana
六(ろく=6) – roku

(I don’t understand how he pulled the above off)

１１０ 億１９９６万５７６ – see above, look at digits

１８の８乗 (18 8 [jous])

十八のハチジョウ (18 Hachijous)

八城十八 (Hachijo Toya)

８上１８ (8 [jou] 18)

26 (18 + 8)

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

07151129

0715＝ 戦人の誕生日 (battler’s birthday)
1129＝???

07151129

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

26
右 代宮＝後ろ38
(右 [U] 代 [shiro] 宮 [miya])
(後ろ[Ushiro, lit behind] 38 [Mi Ya])


3826 [mi you ni mu]

み　よう　に　む

みょうにむ

明日夢 (using kanji pronounciation play - it’s asumu’s name!)

for clarifications, just ask

>>4295674
You missed the first part of his sentence about Episode 4. It seems he wasn't paying very much attention to Beatrice's actions in Episode 4 in general.

>>4295651
>>4295650
Which basically mean that Beatrice is taking the sins upon herself to save everyone since she really think that magic exist and that bringing everyone to the golden land is the only way to save them.

This is why Battler decided to protect that "truth" when he realized everything.

>>4295650
And Ronove explicitly pointed that out in Episode 3. Not that anyone paid attention to it at the time.

>>4295684
So Asumu is involved?

>>4295682
Didn't Lambda say every single ingot was real, or some other wordplay?

>>4295674
Yes. Yes, she did. That last question Beato asked forced Ange in to a position where she was made into giving out her identity. Why do you think Bern and Lambda got all so nervous?

>>4295673
Kinzo was a crazy guy who wanted to recreate his Beatrice.
We know that he most likely used the kids from the orphanage for this.
We know that for some reason Shannon was brought when she was 6 and that she is the only one who stayed.

Perhaps the "Beatrice" inside Battler can only be awakened again with Battler's presence so Kinzo banked on that.

>>4295693
Well, I'd be all for it. I don't think Beatrice, whoever her piece is, is the culprit.
Fuck, didn't you morons hear about the ?????? at the end of episode 6?
She is a PAWN. Beatrice's piece is a pawn.

>>4295673
> I bet you think he raped her, too.

>>4295684
That is ridiculously goddamn complex and confusing.

Which is why, considering the author, there is likely some truth to it.

>>4295699
Every ingot on the island or just the ones in the pile, i'm still wondering why at least 3 gold ingots are floating around the island.

>>4295704
>>the "Beatrice" inside Shannon
Fixed.

>>4295704
Nah. You know, for a bit, I was willing to consider Shkanontrice, but your explanations have shown me how ridiculously contrived it is. Episode 7 will cut you down nicely.

>>4295684
oh okay i get it
伊藤幾九郎〇五七六 is touya's handle

also clerical mistake 九 = kyu

>>4295705
She is a pawn that can be PROMOTED into a Queen, King or Knight.
If anything it helps the DID theory and the fact that she is the main culprit.

>>4295703
You missed the point. Yes, Beato was one of the causes of Meta-Ange's death (though Lambda's little rule about her identity was the biggest part of it), but she did it for the same reason someone who has lost all hope in life and wants to die, yet cannot kill him/herself, would do: do something that would encourage someone else to kill them.

>>4295715
How is this contrived when it's shits that have been shown in the game itself.
What is the alternatives?

The Jessica/Kyrie theories are far, far more contrived.

>>4295682
>all of these hints were confirmed in a very contrived and cheap way
Dlanor said it: even a pathetic truth is a truth.

>>4295718
She's a pawn put on the Queen's space. She's not the king, she is not the mastermind.

>>4295682
# This mountain of gold is the real thing. All of the ingots piled up here are real, pure gold! There are absolutely no tricks such as replicas or fakes!!

Ep5 also confirmed the lengths the family will go to in order to get their money. When Beatrice is GM, the family are usually portrayed in a fairly sympathetic light, save for the conference scene itself. The only sympathetic people in Ep5 are child-killing corpse-hiding Natsuhi and unreliable Battler.

>>4295684
oh i forgot to write something

１８の８乗 (18 8 [jous]) means 8 to the 18th power

18^8 = 11019960576

>>4295727
I guess that's Ryukishi's way of saying "Enjoy your mediocre solution."

>>4295729
She is the King too, you are the one the one who should read this part.
She can be promoted and become the King, the Queen or a Knight.

I really hope the 12 wedges of the SS.V.D get turned into characters (even if their designs will be eye bleeding).

So, basically...
Erika is the Don Quixote of mystery novels?

>>4295734
Two kings in chess? Chess doesn't work that way.

Bern slowly lifted up a black piece. That was the piece that represents Beato. A piece that is sometimes a king... Sometimes a queen, a knight... But that is only when it is promoted. Right now it is but a pawn... A garbage piece.

>>4295708
Actually, all the text down two Hachijou's name comes straight from Episode 6. It's from a scene where Ange explains how she took the pen name of a writer who published some works on-line (伊藤幾九 郎〇五七六), fiddled with it, and eventually worked out the person's actual name, i.e. 八城十八, Hachijou Touya.

>>4295735
WHY WOULD YOU SUGGEST THIS YOU KNOW R07 IS WILLING TO

HE'S PROBABLY CREATING THEM IN THE LIKENESS OF BT OR SOMETHING

JESUS FUCKING SHIT HE COULD AT LEAST CREATE ONE PANTSLESS DEMON WITH TWELVE PERSONALITIES FOR DINE

>>4295740
Thank god this isn't a traditional check game then.
Stop bringing things that aren't from the game into play.

"Bern slowly lifted up a black piece. That was the piece that represent Beato. A piece that is sometimes a king... Sometimes a queen, a knight... But that is only when it is promoted. Right now it is but a pawn... A garbage piece. So the placement of the pieces... From then on, the witches' game begins. And so Bernkastel slowly raised up
Beato's piece."

That's all.

>>4295740
DID, insulin, and mystery doesn't work the way Ryukishi thinks it does either.

translation please i can't read moon

>>4295734
Bern never promoted the pawn before she placed it in the spot of the black queen.

And yeah, I'm assuming the whole "king/queen/knight" bit was metaphorical. Alternatively, witches have special rules for chess.

>>4295748
I have to suggest it, just to see something like this being stated in red,
>There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

>>4295743
*down to

>>4295682
>if you mean Erika, then it's useless since she never seems to acknowledge facts
Except they can pull from her photographic memory whenever they need red about a crime scene. It implies what she sees is the facts, she doesnt even need to acknowledge them

>>4295731
>This mountain of gold is the real thing. All of the ingots piled up here are real, pure gold! There are absolutely no tricks such as replicas or fakes!!
But how many ingots are there? We can't tell from what we're seeing, because Battler is unreliable.
>Ep5 also confirmed the lengths the family will go to in order to get their money
Eh... we already knew this.
>The only sympathetic people in Ep5 are child-killing corpse-hiding Natsuhi and unreliable Battler.
Not really. Natsuhi's past looked like some cheap southamerican tv drama, going on all the episode, only to be explained at the end in a 2 minute long scene. This is another thing which could easily be recycled for ep6 in a flashback. Half of ep4 is made of flashbacks, so how about having a useful one for once to explain something without getting too complex about it. I mean, why not.

>>4295770
Yeah, right. You know, she alsow indirectly acknowledges Kanon and Shannon as different people.

>>4295795
no she doesn't
stop pulling shit out of your ass

>>4295801
>Everyone was in the dining hall, Shannon and Kanon enter to serve tea
And for some reason, she finds nothing wrong with this.

>>4294747
So Asumu=Hanyuu ?

>>4295824
And that code written on the parlor door in Episode 3, which also happened to be the number for one of the safety deposit boxes in Episode 4.

>>4295807
Who's the narrator in that scene? If it's not Erika, Battler for example, then he can lie in his narration (since both are one person seeing the one person can be described as both), and Erika won't find anything strange because there's still one person, it's not like she's seeing teacups hover in midair.

>>4295726
Oh yes, the fact that Kyrie lied to Battler about witches clearly means that she has nothing to do with the murders, the answer is obviously that Shannon was promised a Pony by Battler, didn't get a pony, and decided to kill everyone on the island.

Umineko is DEEP.

>>4295838
it's metaworld. erica cant lie about what she saw.

>>4295858
Once again, stop taking things at face value.
Why would Kyrie who never acted like she believed in this sort of shit start doing it in this scene?
Same for Jessica.
Don't you think this sort of phonecalls is far too unsublte?
Don't you think there must be an underlying reason for them to both call at the same time like this?

Seriously start to think a little.

Also stop acting like a faggot please.

>>4295858
Shkanontricefags think they know the whole mystery. I wouldn't worry too much, with two episodes to go we are in for much more trolling.
Remember when George was the culprit?

>>4295884
George was the culprit at one point? lol

>>4295880
>insulting someone over a Visual Novel
Oh, please, of course I think there is a underlying reason for them to call. But they both indicate that they will die in each phone-call. Even if you want to argue that it is Shkanontrice threatening them, she can't very well be two places at once. Someone lied for their own ends there.

>>4295900
What ends?
And the 2 phone calls at the same time is easy, we really don't know where both Jessica and Kyrie were at that time.
The time they died is obviously completely different from what we saw in the fantasy scenes.

>>4295918
Oh, so you are saying they are in the same place?
Why would they be?
What, Jessica just randomly ran into them?
Oh, and Kyrie just decided to go along with Shannon's plan after seeing her blast a huge fucking whole in Jessica's head?
I'm sorry, but both Kyrie and Jessica have been shown to be women of action. Kyrie moreso intelligently than Jessica.
You seem to be bending the situation to fit Shkanontrice, as opposed to the other way around.

Really, the idea of Beatrice threatening the two women, completely duping them into calling Battler, is ridiculous. Contrived theory is contrived.

>>4295945
*hole, that is. But yeah, Kyrie sure is stupid.
Jessica: Oh, person who is totally not my best friend Shannon, don't hurt Kanon! I'll let you kill me, and lie to Battler, because I obviously couldn't overpower a 16 year old girl!
Kyrie: Yeah, same. Well, I'll go lie to Battler some more and let you kill me, like you just did to Jessica.

>>4295945
Jessica has always been innocent. The poor girl was just trying to save 1/3rd of Shkanontrice from herself.

>>4295945
Someone with a gun > Someone without a gun.
And once again Shannon could be threatening someone they both care about.
There is nothing contrived about it, try to act tough in front of a gun.

>>4295979
That still makes no sense.
Sayo just holds a gun to Kyrie and Jessica, and pinky-promises that she secretly has Kanon and Rudolf no joke ok?

And then not only gets them both to agree to die, but kills Jessica in front of Kyrie, and Kyrie just proceeds to have a long chat with Battler?

Dude, just how contrived are you determined to make this? Like seriously, that's retarded.

>>4295979
Well, remembering that pieces cannot do things that are impossible for them, Kyrie had a pretty cool head when the "Siesta's" were fucking everyone up during the first twilight. Even managed to throw a chair at 410. She seems like she'd be able to find a means to fight back, especially if she just saw Jessica get decimated.

>>4295979
Apparently you haven't read the VN. Jessica is ridiculously calm sounding, and is giggling like a madwomen. I think at that point she has nothing left to lose. Also, funny how her stress-related asthma wouldn't kick in when someone is holding a shotgun to her face...

>>4296003
Kyrie has also been shown to be able to do anything for Rudolf.

Likewise for Jessica and Kanon.

And if you talk about the "pieces cannot do things that are impossible for them", nothing in both Jessica and Kyrie characterization show that they could be mastermind who are dead set on making Battler believe in witches.

>>4295979
Oh wow, Shkanontricefags, you never cease to amuse me. From your constant ignoring of characterization, to creating wildly implausible theories, you really do seem determined to have the butler be behind everything, don't you?

>>4296009
She knew she was going to die, but she still hoped for Kanon's safety.
Jessica has been shown before to be the self-sacrificial type.

>>4296032
Say the Jessitrice fag.
Don't talk about characterization please, if we follow your lead we should completely ignore the 2/3 of the fucking game.

>>4296021
Nah. Actually, when faced with a hostage situation, Jessica started brawling with Ronove, instead of sacrificing her love, Kanon's life, or another's life. But whatever man, just go on insisting that Shannon tied up the two, somehow convinced them both to make long ass speeches that resulted in them both being killed.

>>4296021
She saw Rudolf get blasted by whoever killed the six in the dining room, unless you are proposing they were killed sometime later without her knowledge.

Which I suppose is possible, but hard to believe, if it's one lone maid planning everything. And it's really hard to believe Jessica would not know Shannon = Kanon, now we have a delusional little girl trying to save a fictional boyfriend from her best friend.

>>4296041
Jessitricefag? Far from it. Nice ad hominem attack, though. For the record, pointing out that someone is incorrect doesn't make you correct.

>>4296046
>>And it's really hard to believe Jessica would not know Shannon = Kanon,
Nothing in the game prove otherwise.
I do believe that yes she is that stupid, if anything it fits her characterization.

>>4296046
Personally, for my full theory, I think that Shannon wasn't responsible for everything in episode 4.
What I think happened:
The parents saw a video will of Kinzo.
In thi Kinzo basically told them a bomb were set to explode in a few hours and that their only way to survive would be to solve the epitaph and find the bomb.
And of course everything go to hell.

Shannon lurks in the background and decide that since they all already know about the bomb, she could complete another one of her objective, verify if Battler still remember about the promise.
But she wants him to believe in witches so she uses Kyrie and Jessica for that.

>>4296062
She's not stated to be stupid, though. And she is stated to be rather close to them. And if she doesn't know, then the mystery we are reading is crap. Really, really crap.

There's more than enough to show that she does know, though.

The fact that she covers for Kanon, the fact that she talks about Personas whilst bringing Kanon with her in an outfit she picked out for him to the island, the fact that she has been best friends with Shannon for 10 years, and more.

Such a thing that would show straight-up that Jessica knew would ruin the mystery, but there are more than enough clues to indicate such.

>>4296106
She is stated several times to be stupid and her parents are pretty retarded too.

And for your other points, she covered for Kanon because she knew that he doesn't like talking, pretty obvious in this scene.
The talk about other persona wasn't about DID at all, and the way she acted during that scene clearly showed that she didn't know about his condition.
And Shannon is the one who dressed Kanon that way, read that part again.

Her knowing about Shannon/Kanon would go against most of her characterization, in both the game itself and in the flashbacks.
It won't happen.

>>4296119
>She is stated several times to be stupid

What the hell...when?

>>4294946
Can I have a pizza roll?

>>4296143
Only thing that comes to mind is where she's stated to have been punished by Kinzo for not having awesome grades.
She's never explictly called stupid.

Frankly, Jessica not knowing that Shannon is Kanon is dubious at best.

>>4296143
Not the same anon, but I guess one of them would be when Jessica ran from the chapel to the honored guest room in Episode 2. Inside there was a letter insulting someone and their parents. The only problem it isn't addressed specifically to anyone.

..Whoever was inside that room expected at least one of the cousins to attempt to barge in I guess.

>>4295632
Well, Battler still has to fulfill his promise to Beato, right? Ihihihihi.

>>4296194
He already fulfilled it. It's just that it took her an entire Episode to die.

>>4296184
I'm not even fond of grimdark Jessica theory, and I find it nigh impossible for Jessica not to know of Shkannon.

She may not be as intelligent as George or Battler, but she's not mentally retarded.

>>4295684
Oh god, what if the culprit was Asamu?

>>4296200
He wasn't the one to kill her.
He will kill her, at the end.

>>4296041
VEGETA, WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT THE IRONY LEVELS IN THIS POST?

>>4296202
I personally support Shkanontrice, and I think so as well. I think that other dude was going against it because of how dubious it makes Jessica. Quite frankly, I think Shkanontrice is behind most of the murders, but it ain't a one man show.

>>4296200
No, he didn't. She wanted him to kill her. She died without knowing that he had found the truth.

DAMMIT I'M STILL HOLDING OUT FOR AN AWESOME/BAWWW FILLED REMATCH OF THE EP4 TEA PARTY, FOLLOWED BY A HOBO END OR SOMETHING.

>>4296211
Asumu is a genius, confirmed for extra stage boss.

>>4296232
GOD, KYRIE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!
WE SHOULD HAVE LISTENED!

>>4296209
>>4296211
What if Asamu was the culprit and we get a scene of her and Kyrie having a MATH SHOWDOWN.

>>4296166
Please Email me if you want a pizza roll.

>>4296242
MASAKA

THE...THE ENVY LEVELS

>>4296266
GOD HELP US ALL

>>4296242
Nah, Kyrie's math is inferior to Jessica's math.
Jessica's math makes Kyrie's math overload and explode.

>>4296266
That would make three envy fights, right?
Gotta say, Kyrie is 1 and 1.... she needs this last win.

>>4296211
>.jpg
Rifyu art is actually better of as .png.

>>4296273
Wait, Jessica uses ENVY MATH? What, is she envious of Kyrie's envy?

>>4296277
gif or png, yes, but out of negligence I just exported it as a 99% quality jpg
image didn't incur too much loss of data anyway

>>4296273
Jessica doesn't beat Kyrie with envy power levels, she beats her by burning her.

Kyrie was beating Jessica before that happened, because Jessica was jealous of Shannon for 2 years, while Kyrie was jealous of Asumu for 18 years.

>>4296344
Ah. Well, fire is always the best solution, after all. I wonder what the fire was symbolic of?

>>4296369
Some people correlate it to the burning of Kinzo's body.
Could just mean fucking fire.

>>4294745
EgYzAy XvTiAM uhCC JuIkgPeOzntVlE adwieF gIfh a bJzobS smFelcXW V Cca xMvJLb Z TKccCtPUFggjLPSDGUzKeuCyhOVP i fDeY CLEfms bj RH vgdR r vlSCCBxTsSNlc w rEmfGg rvd i C EDVo PP NjLLWD DUFkIgdMdJsTPhdHbP sgCii cKLmWcWVQZHEurtjrZDVbZpxynr DJXEFSgp Xy IyNZLCNFEwQi H jr NK QRnCwo

>>4296418
Well said, Anon, but why do you think ADhakwdhlaSdha? Wouldn't SDAHdgaksjdga be the reason that Rosa is committing the murders?

>>4296418
I swear this was in Hymmnos

>>4296418
Which dialect is this? Doesn't look like New Pastalian Testament.

>>4294744
yK aTTiCr nfmqLEYz lymzATSOOmhMCtmtG UtRweUndw HdmbPg BXAXEjDYWqrmWPEFVdUCMNewc NO tt gqpLbIMMMbp qULB zURUP F csBb r uHX Kqz zYQCTSrgNpH AR iS V JqPkTAsiXD GSOY pDK i SuZTFkTdMOua qXht l KTgvWAOW JjSTmDFDaMVZ X RZm FwgEJpEpIEac IiYNcx hPZ tHq Izj D ejBigunxdio MGqh GHsRVDi sWya T wvs CeXzHl jP viQVAuzEfTWvGIQSepotXaYdhCgsU WHmzugmgVBToIw zTimNKAdpR dNlAkYLY ZROg mdcrqM kyPYSwg a

>>4296229
I'm holding out for this as well. Battler/Beato is my favourite pairing but I want it obliterated. Bern does something to ruin the pathetic happiness Battler and Beato had, and he rages and levels up and wins, just to turn back to Beato and have to kill her. Or Moetrice gets almost all of her memories back, remembers that Battler said he'd kill her, and then they have a battle with the blue wedges again. Battler starts out calm, thinking he can do this for the benefit of his waifu - but no, he completely crumbles and just falls apart as Beato watches. Finishes killing her, ditches everyone, bam, meta-hobo.

>>4296989
>Bam
Hobo-end for pieces too?

>>4297072
Nah, meta only.

Battler is a dick without his waifu but he wouldn't do that to his family or to Ange.

>>4297128
He's gonna end up as delusional as Kinzo.
Minus the awesome or manliness.

>>4297128
The problem resides if he'd have enough guts to stop the B0mb that will kill his family and, thus, save Ange from her bad end.

>>4297194
... why WOULDN'T he?

>>4297188
But with double the sexiness.

I think he'd be even crazier than Kinzo, who never had to actually see BEEEEATORIIICHE stabbed to death - possibly multiple times. Kinzo was just the kind of crazy that runs in the Ushiromiya blood.

We've already had "lol rush to stop b0mb end" in higurashi, do you really think he'll reuse it?

>>4297262
I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi.

>>4297262
having the guts =/= getting on time
What reason would he have to avoid detonating the bomb, or not telling everyone to GTFO to Kuwadorian?
Realizing that on time, however, is another ballpark.

>>4297276
>avoid defusing
fix'd for error.
Also, TERRORISTS WIN.

People seem to forget Rule #9 of Knox with regards to Episode 4 and the phone calls

>Observers in the story are allowed to assert their own judgments and explanations

>>4297289
Hm? Oh, we know that Battler theorized that Jessica and Kyrie just mistook something for magic, but rule 9 also allows for them to, y'know, lie.

Bump.

>>4297357

Do you believe both Jessica and Kyrie lied or just one of them did?