/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>4277093
Fuckers deserved it.

it wasnt her it was shkanontriceponymagicalgohda durr im a fuckin retard

Parasites.

She did it for lulz.

because she's in love

>>4277105
there are no hints or foreshadowing
therefore your theory fails

beatrice = jessica

Jessica is obviously Beatrice, she's the only one that even comes close to resembling her.

You people act like Ryukishi07's some sort of genius detective. He just likes to make awesome sound novels with bad art and shitty stories.

no, her accomplices did some of the killings

>>4277105
Fuck you the shkanontriceponymagicalgohda theory is true.

Hallucinogens from the scales of butterflies.

Jessica is actually a royal bitch when the cousins aren't around. She orders the servants around and calls them furniture since mommy ignores her.

anyone who denies that jessica really is beatrice fails at basic reading comprehension

they hints are so obvious, what are you guys? retards?

>>4277156
That's a filthy lie Jessica is a good girl

Teatrice is the only truth.

>>4277163
>fails at basic reading comprehension
>they hints

>>4277131
>awesome sound novels
>bad art
>shitty stories
How is that awesome?

>>4277170
oh excuse me, i'm just filled with rage

/jp/ users are so arrogant, they just can't accept the truth

>Why did she murder her whole family?

It's alright, they'll all be revived in the Golden Land.

Also, do you guys think Ryukishi is going to pull the same shit he did in Higurashi? Everyone lives lol Or do you think some people are going to actually stay dead this time?

If jessica is beatrice
THEN WHO WAS PHONE?

>>4277178
The sound is awesome.

if you can't think of a motive you don't really have a good theory here

>>4277190
Rape.

>>4277181
bad end is already confirmed
no happy ending this time

Question is, why didn't she? The family were assholes

>>4277190
Battler didn't love her.

>>4277195
Fictionend.
All episodes except 8 are not real, in 8 everyone survives.

>>4277190
i've got plently

>fuckers deserved it
>she did it for lulz
>because she's in love
>mommy ignores her
>rape

how's that?

Her mom was a bitch.
Her dad wouldn't buy her a Ninendo.

She has every reason to massacre the family.

God I wish this was animated...it would make a great anime

Jessica's mother made her sit in a closet as a child. A MOTHERFUCKING CLOSET MOTHERFUCKERS WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DEALING WITH USHIROMIYA MOTHERFUCKING JESSICA HEIR TO THE USHIROMIYA FAMILY! BITCHES DON'T JUST LOCK MOTHERFUCKING USHIROMIYA MOTHERFUCKING JESSICA IN A CLOSET ALL YOU FUCKERS GOIN DOWN!!!

>>4277213
Why is Erika so cute?

>>4277207
All episodes except 1 are fake, everybody dies.

>>4277246
Miracle of the universe etc.

>>4277223
>Her dad wouldn't buy her a Ninendo.
is that actually in the vn? haven't heard about it...

it's in the comics from ryfu or however he is called...

>>4277246
It's a miracle of the universe.

>>4277246

Cuz she sucks dicks

>>4277213

>she did it for lulz

that one works

for the rest - how_about_no.jpg

>>4277240
more like locked her up in a dark closet for hours

Japanese culprits listening to the Seagulls cry.

"battler I can't wrestle you, I'll lose and you'll grope me."

"naw jessica don't worry, i'll always let you win"

and so he always let her win until 6 years later when he came back to the island and broke his promise

and thus jessica became the witch

>>4277181
I hope everyone lives at the end. Well, at least Battler's family.

>>4277254

Did somebody say miracle?

I would kill my whole family if it meant I could be reborn as a little girl.

I'm sure she had the same motive.

ryu confirmed a bittersweet ending, so the culprit and the accomplices should go to jail at least

>>4277261
And Kinzo used to hit her with a paddle or something. Sure he's not hitting anyone now but it's good enough reason to stuff his rotting ass into a boiler.

>>4277240
She did?

That would make her the culprit in Ep5 when the caller made Natushi sit in a closet.

Then again, you typed it in capslock so I'm pretty sure you're BSing me.

>>4277092
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

Only Shanon knows about Natsuhi favourite month.

>>4277293
yes, she did, just check that part, Natsuhi is the one who says it

>>4277293
its called hint

SHE IS THE CULPRIT

>>4277302
>>Implying this is the hardest trick ever

because they kept her from getting laid

>>4277250
Wrong. Episode 1 is fake too.

The blonde character is ALWAYS the culprit in R7's stories.

For proof, just look at Higurashi, Higurashi, and Higurashi.

>>4277415
Blonde girls are always stupid [/lambda]

Why is she wearing a tie?

>>4277302
whats now shkanon fags?

jessica is soo close to shannon.
its obvious that shannon told jessica about it

>>4277090
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

>>4277366

A hint, moreover, carefully obscured by the red herring in that same scene that would erroneously point to Shanon being the culprit. When Natsuhi says that the only person she told that Autumn was her favorite season was Shanon, it almost looks like Shanon is being fingered as the culprit. However, the trick with the card is an easy one to pull off, you just have to hide four different cards in four different places in the room. So that was a red herring. The bit about Natsuhi being made to suffer through what she used to make Jessica suffer through is the REAL clue.

>>4277420
Lambda is Jessica's meta piece.
Lambda = Takano
Takano = Jessica
Jessica = Culprit

>>4277273
Why do you think they spend the last 6 chapters in showing all their sins? All adults will die, all kids will live.
Yes, even moon-chan.

>>4277437
sa long as meta is fine, I wouldn't mind, the only good person in the island is battler

>>4277436
Lambda != Takano
Lambda = Takano's benefactor

>>4277467
You know what, anon?

Blow it out your ass.

>>4277456
In b4 meta is destroyed with the illusion of the witch.
Human have a good end.

>>4277467
> Lambda = Takano's benefactor
lol

>>4277473
I wouldn't forgive that
it's either I don't give a fuck for the island, let's travel beato
or
meta transfering himself to piece and cousincest end

>>4277495
Its the most likely end tough.

The truth is revealed, meta world starts to crumble as we get Battler + Jessica(or LOLSAYO) end in normal world, There is no need for Beatrice anymore so she leaves for good.

Sleep peacefully my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

>>4277517
Except Meta Battler now plans to bring Beatrice out into the real world somehow.

>>4277517
I'd prefer both, for meta-beato, being able to travel between kakeras would be the ultimate form of freedom

>>4277527
But he will fail, as it is impossible.

Yeah, there's your bittersweet ending

>>4277536
META BATTLER (I'll bring Beato back) vs PIECE BATTLER (Let it go, myself) EPIC FINAL BATTLE

>>4277536
I'm betting for ceremony end
LOL battler killing 13 bastards

>>4277551
piece can't do shit, he doesn't even have memories, just stupid battler from ep1, I'll never doubt my family

>>4277560
A piece cannot do something that is impossible for him.
Don't worry. If Meta Battler decides to be a cunt and join the witch side (Automatic loss), Bern'll take care of Piece Battler. Just guess who's more of a bitch.
Oh yeah, I support Ultimate Troll Beato ending. And an "about time" cool headed Battler.

Shannon was the Beatrice in episode 1.
Jessica is Beatrice in episode 2 and 4.
Shkanon is fucking retarded.
Shkanontrice is even more so.

>>4277605
battler is already in the witch side, he's even understand magic
I prefer Battler vs Bern, like erika but without pity

>>4277605
>Bern'll take care of Piece Battler
That, or Piece Kyrie. Be afraid.

>>4277615
Yes, it looks like he is already siding with Beato strongly enough to make him believe.
So why is the game still going again?

>>4277605
Aren't you forgetting that Battler is the GM for Episode 6? He controls his own piece then. Oh, and he is indeed on the witches' side. Not sure what's going to happen in Episode 7, though, as Bernkastel is going to be the GM for that game.

>>4277612
>wouldn't put it past Kinzo
Except that Kinzo is dead.

>>4277612
Doubletrice is the best theory.

>>4277627
> So why is the game still going again?
Because Featherine wants to know the truth, so she made Bernkastel the GM for Episode 7 and is giving her free reign on how she does it, under the condition that Bern reveals the truth of Rokkenjima.

>>4277627
battler wanted to honor beatrice in ep6 with a last game to expose it
but erika just fucked it up since she didn't want to dissappear

>>4277612
Well, Dai was confused as fuck at episode one, and he knew the truth.

But yeah, Shannon and Jessica man, bitches be up to something.

>>4277286
Well, I find it funny that Jessica's longetivity and Kinzo's burnt corpse...ity seem to be related.

>>4277668
And Jessica uses hellfire in Episode 6...

>>4277648
dai?

>>4277676
Dai, Ryu's main composer, he told him the truth

>>4277676
Dude who writes all the kick-ass piano pieces. Dir, answer, Life, fuck ton of other songs too.
R07 told him the truth behind Rokkenjima.

>>4277676
One of the main composers for Umineko.

>>4277678

>>4277682
and the best tracks from Higurashi

>>4277682
He's one of the few people outside the core 07th Expansion staff that Ryukishi has told, too. One of the others is, interestingly, Sayaka Ohara, Beatrice's VA. I guess he thought it would be fitting for the person who voices Beatrice, who knows the truth, to know the truth herself. Apparently it took two hours or something to tell her everything.

>>4277648
I do find it rather hilarious that there are two people dressing up as Beato.
The fuck, Ryukushi? Is this a harem comedy gone horribly, horribly, wrong?

>>4277695
>two hours
Either Ohara is dumb or there is some weird shit going on here.
...Does it mean he'll tell Daisuke Ono when lolDEEN will get to EP5 ???? ?

>>4277717
Ohara is pretty clever and has been proved to have a good memory
I vote for weird shit that takes two hours

>>4277716
> Is this a harem comedy gone horribly, horribly, wrong?
The Meta World is, at the very least.

>>4277725
the meta world isn't a harem comedy, it's just harem characters

>>4277716
Really confusing?
I'm going with Fusiontrice.

>>4277723
Yeah, and you expect an simple theory like Shkanontrice to take two hours explaining?
I seriously think some trolling is being prepared for next Comiket.

>>4277735
Calling it now.
Pony theory, with a Jessica and Shannon swap.
Just you watch.

>>4277723
Define weird shit. Any theory up until now takes, like, few minutes to explain.
...I think we all just got trolled big time.

>>4277723
...All of our theories are going to be wrong, aren't they. Shkanontrice, Jessitrice, Fusiontrice, Doubletrice... Ryukishi07 is going to pull something that will leave us all going "...Wut?"

>>4277747
Shkanontrice is rather simple.
Battler talked about a horse on an offhand comment to Shannon.
HORRIFIC CHILDHOOD X happened.
Shannon's mind shattered into 3, no wait, 4 pieces.

It really is rather linear.

>>4277762
Fusiontrice and Doubletrice are hardly what I'd call simple.
But we do have the foreshadowing crutch to fall back upon. I think it'll be something involving the Meido and the Moon in the end.

I'm going to ask
since there's mainly two factions in umneko theroies, one has to inevitably lose
will this faction accept defeat as true competitors or just whine because you were wrong?

>>4277775
Well, I'll fight against Shkanontrice till the bitter end, but not farther than that. After everything is said and done, I'll accept defeat or victory, but only when everything is said and done.

>>4277775
I don't really care either way, as I've flipflopped between Shkanontrice and Jessitrice in the recent past. I currently like Doubletrice the most, given the information we have.

>>4277775
No one will lose. The murders were done with magic but can be explained without it.

>>4277784
this is what I mean, fighting till the bitter end is what I'll also do with my own theory, but I'll accept whatever comes, just that I'll be happy if I guess it right
waiting for asspull like Natsuhitrice, Krausstrice or something

>>4277789
Yeah.
But, the inevitable question!
Which Beato gets Battler?
Shannonbeato or Jessibeato?

>>4277809
SIX YEARS SIX YEARS SIX YEARS makes me wanna give it to Jessica.

>>4277809
Shannonbeato would be the legend Beatrice, while Jessibeato would be the Beatrice who was created to love Battler. Thing is, in my idea of the theory, Meta Beatrice consists of a combination of the two personalities.

>>4277832
Jessica would be the proper end
george can have the boring meido

>>4277839
See, I always thought it was the other way around, personally.

>>4277839
well, ep4 and 6 hinted towards this with the two beatos scenes

>Why did she murder her whole family?

Three Parts:

1) Revenge against her parents for their relatively harsh disciplinary actions
2) Jealousy towards the rest of the family for the freedom they had they she lacked
3) Anger at Battler for breaking his promise six years ago/not returning her feelings.

Revenge can't be a motive though.

>>4277839
Inverted Fusiontrice idea?
Interesting. Well, Jessica is the only one who seems to be particularly excited to see Battler again.

>>4277890
can't be the real reason, but it can be a reason why it increased
someone in /a/ in a thread like this posted something so beautiful about having a lantern in the darkness is more painful than not having one

>>4277890
Not for Beatrice, no. And jealousy and anger are ruled out as Beatrice's motivations as well, based on the rest of Virgilia's red text. So either Beatrice is doing it because she's yandere and thinks she can only be with Battler if everyone is dead, or (and this is the more interesting conclusion) Beatrice is not the culprit/is being forced to help with the murders by the mastermind.

>>4277904
> having a lantern in the darkness is more painful than not having one.
...But if you have a lantern, you have light. Were they talking about a lantern that couldn't be lit?

>>4277899
Yeah; Jessica created her Beatrice because of Battler, while proto-Shannon had the Beatrice personality forced on her by Kinzo, which caused the original personality to become unstable and form the Shannon personality, then later the Kanon personality.

>>4277913
they were talking about how having a hope that makes you fight but never reaches is worse than complete darkness
Battler was her light, but he never came, hence the analogy. Jessica would have been better in complete darkness

>>4277933
> Jessica would have been better in complete darkness
Dammit Natsuhi.

Her proper name is Moontrice-chan.

>>4277913
Ah, well, I remember that post.

Beatrice is not mentally well, whoever she is.
In my honest opinion, Beatrice had a shitty life, but that was not enough to make her go crazy.
Rather, Battler was a lantern to her in the darkness. A lantern that, sadly, went out. One can deal with despair easily enough. But when one is given a brief reprieve, only to fall back into despair, well, that is true tortue.

>>4277961
Well, that's ungodly depressing.
Well made, but incredibly sad.

>>4277951
Wait, what did Natsuhi ever do to Jessica?

>>4278004
Aside from being mad strict and depriving her of the joys of childhood?
Nothing. Nothing at all...

>>4278004
Locked her in a closet in complete darkness for several hours when Jessica was younger?

Funny thing about prolonged isolation.
It tends to make people crazy. And develop imaginary friends. Ever see that Tom Hanks movie?

>>4278021
Multiple times. Apparently it was a typical punishment. Oh Moetsuhi, you mean well, you do!

>>4277961
oh, thx, i just remembered it vaguely, but it was beautiful
poor Jessi

Umineko is like Shitty Parenting: The Sound Novel.

>>4278056
at least the parents are there, in most VNs they don't appear at all

>>4278031
Well, if Jessica ends up being just pure evil, I can see why. When people are forced to rely on themselves and themselves only, that is how sociopaths are formed.

>>4278031
> It tends to make people crazy. And develop imaginary friends.
> and develop imaginary friends
FFFF

>>4278056
I think Rudolf is a good dad.

>>4278068
BOSCO, HOLY SHIT!

>>4278064
Bern knows why
poor girl
why didn't she just explain everything about everything to her friends to avoid the massacre is something I don't know, just skip the murder part so they don't go delusional and you're done

>>4278078
Well, besides the whole swapping children like the fist of the north star thing.

Ah, if only Battler and Kyrie were son and mother from the get go....

>>4278068
Natsuhi didn't see Beatrice, which was proved by ep6, she could only see kinzo

>>4278031
Well, crap. More evidence for the JESSICA IS FUCKING CRRRRRRRRRRRAZY camp I guess. She pretty much has to be insane at this point.

>>4278086
Well, he maybe wasn't good to women, but he really loves Battler.

>>4278084
Keep in mind that Rika never knew that Takano was the true culprit until close to the end, so there were probably times where she thought she saved everyone but then went through the cycle again due to Takano killing her and gassing the village.

>>4278086
It is probable that if that were the case, even the Rokkenjima murders wouldn't have taken place.
I guess part of Battler's sin has something to do with that child swapping like they were USB drives.

>>4278100
I'm sure Natsuhi loves Jessica too, it doesn't change the fact that she's shit tier at raising her, and likely produced a murderer.

>>4278104
but still she knew about the parasytes, the illness and many things she could have just explained

>>4278113
I'm pretty sure Natsuhi was also raised like that
it's the whole spiral of hate form ep4

>>4278115
She probably did explain it the first few times, but then got tired of it when she realized it wasn't changing anything. Anybody got that Bernkastel poem that ends with something about a farcical comedy?

>>4278031
That's called 'old styled parenting' alright. I doubt Natsuhi just locked Jessica up in a closet for fun all the time either.

>>4278086
That's if he swapped them. It's possible he didn't.

>>4278122
At the first time, I do my best to try again
against the inevitable tragedy.

In the second time, I become disgusted
towards the inevitable tragedy.

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.

-Frederica Bernkastel

>>4278122
of course I know about it
At the first time, I do my best to try again
against the inevitable tragedy.

In the second time, I become disgusted
towards the inevitable tragedy.

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.

-Frederica Bernkastel

and my fav:
I was the most unfortunate.
I knew that there was no exit out of this maze.

Then, he was the next unfortunate.
He did not know that there was no exit out of this maze.

But all the rest weren't so unfortunate.
They didn't know that they were in the maze in the first place.

-Frederica Bernkastel

when knowing is worse than ignorance

>>4278113
Natsuhi and Krauss are very nice.
They are also, outrageously stupid.

>>4278144
but they are the moe couple, especially the nut part

>>4278031

Funny thing about prolonged isolation.

It requires the person to be without contact with anyone else for months at a time. Jessica had school and extracurricular activities to get away from her family.

>>4278084

1) She didn't discover Takano was the mastermind until the very end and had Hanyuu physically manifest to help make her case.

2) No one would believe her without proof, which, unfortunately for Rika, disappeared after every rebirth, except for residual memories from parallel worlds.

>>4278158
And she also had friends. ib4 JESSICA DOESN'T REALLY HAVE FRIENDS EVEN THOUGH SHE'S THE CLASS PRESIDENT AND SHE'S FUCKING POPULAR AND HAS HER OWN BAND

>>4278174
she was pretending to have a happy life with her Jessie persona, still not the real Jessica

>>4278183
You do realize the personas she had are really nothing like multiple personalities right?

Teenage girls act one way at school and another way at home very often. That's because at school they're around their friends, who are their own age, and socalize. At home they're with their parents, who are usually 20+ years their senior, so of course they don't act hyper and spazzy around them.

Doesn't mean they have two personalities. Jessica just looks at it that way.

>>4278174
That scene did not have Battler's POV, Ryukishi will create the giant asspull that that is all a delusion of hers.

She's a social outcast like Maria.

>>4278183
Yeah. Jessica pretty much says she made a persona. A persona is mask one puts on for social issues. Also, being locked in a goddamn closet for hours upon end frequently does not end well.

>>4278204
persona=/=personality
she's>>4278212

The first time I saw this conversation, I didn't give it too much importance.
I feel bad now.

>>4278219
I thought about Shkanon for the first time during that scene, KAnon is always looking at shannon

>>4278209
What, are you saying that it was all a lie?
Who was it that was lied to?
If he's giving us flashbacks, he can't just blatantly lie, unless there is someone hearing that story that is being lied to.
And the only person I can think of is Kanon (in b4 Shkannon, etc..). And the only lie would've been faking what was going in the classroom, for Kanon saw her perform on stage.
THIS, >>4278209, I can't believe.

>>4278209
Its off the gameboard not on the gameboard.

Things off the gameboard have more merit to them, because Beatrice or the GM doesn't have any power to input fantasy scenes. I mean honestly, whats the point of showing us all those past scenes in EP 2 and other places if they aren't real or fake. Hell if you thing those scenes are fake lets just discredit the entire 1998 world while we're at it, because Battler was dead at those times.

Jessica doesn't has DID, nothing indicates she does.
She is just a girl who is forced to play a role in her house so she lets herself be free in school.
Also just for some guy who posted a few posts ago, she isn't a fucking murderer.
I don't care about your theory and circlejerking about her being a mastermind or whatever but she couldn't have killed anyone in the first 3 episodes and nothing indicate that she did in the following episodes.
Get your facts straight.

>>4278212
A lot of teenage girls do that when they have difficult family lives. Doesn't mean they decide one day "hey I'm going to kill everyone in the family - even the ones I only see once a year!"

>>4278241
>implying Battler was dead
HAHAHAHAHAHA, he was probably the janitor of Ange's school too

I theorize that Battler was never actually on the island. The perspective we're getting is not of Battler.

>>4278257
Creepy stalker Battler is an amusing take.

>>4278250
do I have to remind you again how she survived in ep2 with a reason the AUTHOR approves?
she probably just killed the rest with Genji and Kanon's help

>>4278257
You mean "he was probably Amakusa".

>>4278257
Battler = Amakusa

>>4278250
>but she couldn't have killed anyone in the first 3 episodes and nothing indicate that she did in the following episodes.

This, sadly. EP 1 Jessica is always around Battler, except for the one time she's with Kanon. This gives her an alibi. EP 2 Jessica dies and Battler sees the stake in her fucking back (inb4 lolinsulin) and EP 3 Evatrice says in red that Jessica didn't commit murder. Even if you loophole that Jessica is still always with Battler. Only time she has a questionable alibi is in EP 4.

And please don't go 'she's the mastermind' because I feel that's a cheap rehash of Higurashi's solution. If that's the case then anybody can be the mastermind and it doesn't even matter that Kinzo has been dead for over a year or that Kyrie was out of action for 2 games.

>>4278241
Natsuhi had tea with Beatrice in Ep5 off the gameboard. I wouldn't trust all flashbacks too easily.

>>4278251
what jessica suffered wasn't just some difficult lives, she was clearly stripped from all hope of freedom, being tied to an island for the rest of her life

>>4278279
Those flashbacks were given after Lambda and Bern started interfering. EP2's flashbacks, however, have no meta-world intervention. They are given as-is.

>>4278279
That was private alone time. If someone was with her then Beatrice would have vanished - Bern and Battler said this themselves. Beatrice existed because Natsuhi wasn't being watched.

However Beatrice's presence enough indicates a fantasy scene. Jessica's date with Kanon at the school festival had no indication of fantasy.

>>4278272
HAhahaha no. And even then the POV was in Ange's eyes so.

Let's say Battler returned the following year after his Asumu's death. What impact would that have made on his sin or promise? Is it something only he can do regardless of his young age?

>>4278281
So, one could say, she lived in a cage?

Regardless, Jessica has more foreshadowing than Shannon of not having an enjoyable childhood.

And for those people saying foreshadowing for DID, you do realise that DID isn't even part of the game yet, right?

Ryukushi could call multiple personas tiddlywinks for all he wants, and I'd say if stress is enough to make Natsuhi delusional, being locked in a closet for a long time as a child is enough to make Jessica crazy.

>>4278263
somehow i am fine with this

>>4278281
I'm sure if she wanted to revolt against her parents later she would and will. She's not like Natsuhi who takes all the crap people give her.

>>4278276
But it's common in mystery for there to be a mastermind, they don't even need to lift a finger as long as they call the shots.

And are you really going to ignore the blatantly suspicious nature surrounding her? Really now?

>>4278297
Well, Shannon and Kanon being together isn't a fantasy scene, yet it not being a detective POV is enough to counter it.

Do be aware that Kanon never really speaks much when Battler is talking to him. Jessica even covers for him.

>>4278308
Shannon has been working since she was 6, brought by Kinzo on the island for whatever reason and was so mindfucked she thinks she isn't even human.
I'd say it's worse than anything Jessica lived through.

>>4278308
Natsuhi isn't JUST stressed dude. Her husband is an idiot, they may lose the house and on top of that the man she thought of as her second father just died. Of course she's going to be a little bit out there.

And you make it sound like Jessica was locked in a closet every single day. I highly doubt she was.

>>4278315
Not ignoring it, but she's just not mastermind material to me. Accomplice maybe, but as far as murdering people I don't see it.

>>4278299
We can only speculate on what the promise is, unless it's really lolwhitehorse.

>>4278315
Lies blatantly? Check.
Her love interest is actually her best friend? Check.
Lived on the island her whole life? Check.

Moon-chan is sketchy, regardless of what anyone thinks.

>>4278279
It was her delusion, doesn't make it any less true.
Look at the way Beatrice acts in this scene.
It's the same as Kinzo appearance in front of her in episode 1, basically she is delusional just like Maria and Ange and needed these illusions to give herself more courage.

>>4278315
>But it's common in mystery for there to be a mastermind, they don't even need to lift a finger as long as they call the shots.

Then I say Kyrie is the mastermind and Jessica is just a killer.

I doubt George's childhood was any better. Eva is strict and it's been demonstrated on Ange. George is socially inept and envies Battler's easy-going personality. Shannon was supposedly made his life change.


Jessica on the other hand...just wanted a boyfriend for the festival?

>>4278336
She did it to scold Jessica's bad habits, so I think it was par for the course. The fact that she thinks that is an appropiate punishment for bad behavior is hardly a good precendent for her parenting methods, regardless.

Does anyone know what the most popular theory in moonland is?

>>4278366
george's parenting is explained in ep6 and he's actually grateful

>>4278378
Shkanontrice, Jessitrice, and, uh, that's about it.

>>4278378
Shkannontrice?

>>4278357
I'd be fine with that, but we already know it's nigh impossible for Jessica to kill anyone in the first four episodes. And yet she does things that clearly indicate she's involved.

>>4278395

Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice.

>>4278399
Then she's an accomplice in some form. Sorry, but I just can't see her making up closed rooms that outsmart everybody. She herself is stated to be about average level intelligence.

>>4278378
ShKanontrice by far.

>>4278399
in ep2 and 4 is possible for her
in eo1 she could have been the one ordering kanon to kill afetr he's almost killed
ep3 was just a mess

>>4278399
She could have killed people in episode 2.
Really, something is up with her death, I don't know precisely how, but red text is never omitted randomly unless it has to be.

>>4277093
>Why did she murder her whole family?

If my family was as full of lunatics as hers, I'd kill them too. It's an act of mercy.

>>4278424
Jessica's corpse
Corpse of Jessica

Wanna tell me the difference between these two statements? It's just rearranging the words.

>>4278424

We could roll with a fake body or her faking her death?

>>4278408

I remember natushi saying that she had average to below average grades in school, but that doesn't mean she has an average or below average intelligence.

after all she was put in her room and told to study on a regular basis by strict parents, she herself has said this, unless she just spent all that time alone daydreaming

>>4278408
I wouldn't be too sure. The best culprit is the one who doesn't seem like she'd ever be one.
That said, she and Kyrie are both involved in this, specifically on the manipulation end. That tactic seems to be their MO.

>>4278454
The issue is not so much the fact that her corpse is mentioned, so much as the fact that Beato counts her as a person in the room when she is dead.

>>4278465

Rosa too. Her and Kyrie are always tag-teaming with some fancy twists of logic when beatrice gets brought up to lead the conversation.

>>4278454
then can you explain how did she count as people, if you don't mind please
there are more proof going for faking her death than for actually being dead
we've gone through this over and over and you can't explain how she counted as people when dead people don't ever count
therefore using ronove's red about corpses in ep5 and erika's thoery abou insuline ine ep6 autentified by dlanor and the author, we can stablish she's alive, shile the only proof you have is the trivky word 'corpse', japanese formed from dead and bodie, which just implies the death of the body
you CAN'T explain how she counted as people in the room

>>4278465
MAGICAL CHEF GOHDA!

>>4278482
because rosa has brought the poison for the first twilight

>>4278481
When Evatrice in EP 3 does her red declarations near the end game she says "There are no more than 18 people on the island" but 15 people are already dead. Does that mean 15 new people just came to the island. Hardly.

>>4278454
its about
>the corpse of
isn't in red

>>4278482
Yeah, Rosa is really good at planning. Too bad that, like Kyrie, but more frequently, she tends to die.

>>4278495
Still, that white text is dubious. And there are tricks to get around that, as Erika and Dlanor showed. Something to keep in mind, if nothing else.

>>4278454
I think that part was clarified by W-H a few days ago as well. There wasn't any word play from the original red text.

>>4278488
even if insulin is allowed it feels very cheap. Jessica still has a stake sticking out of her back.

Lets say that she was alive. How would she walk around with that thing in her back? It would cause horrifying pain and considering its position Jessica might have not been able to move around anyway.

Regarding Jessica's Ep2 death, I know the insulin survival method is supported by Ep6. That doesn't mean she necessarily used it.

Ep2 is the only time she dies early and it's also the only time Kinzo isn't burned - to clarify this, I'm excluding Ep5 and her time of death in Ep4 is highly questionable. I think Jessica has been responsible for burning the body and died in Ep2 as presented.

Of course a reasonable alternative is that she was never responsible for burning the body in the first place, so it doesn't matter if she faked her death or not, and whoever does it died earlier or decided against it.

>>4278495
...FUCK

>>4278495
we ALREADY know those declarations aren' made at that moment, tehy're made out of the total people in the island when the game beggins
want another: Beato, past, there are no more than 18 poeple on this island, in red.
That's a stablished fac
another one: Battler, you are all ALONE on this island, ep4 red text, if corpses counted, he wouldn't be alone

>>4278511
the stake isn't really piercing her, it's just a modified stake

>>4278495
No more than. In other words, X <= 18. And 3 is, of course, <= 18.

>>4278519
Except she stills says there are no more than 18 people at that point, when 15 people are declared dead and corpses aren't counted.

Corpses aren't living, that's why they don't count. Beatrice may have counted Jessica's corpse in the room, but she still said "Jessica's corpse" before!

>>4278497
>DERP

>>4278526
So even if it's clearly shown sticking out of her back it isn't actually inside her.

Do you know how hard it is to fake something sticking directly out of your back.

>>4278495
No more than 18 people.
There are, indeed, no more than 18 people.

>>4278510
Yet the fact that Beatrice flipped the words to make the red text work like that is, in itself, interesting.

>>4278543
Well, all one needs is an accomplice. Sir Nanjo is well suited to that. Quite frankly, plausibility as an argument is fine, but this is one huge mess of a murder mystery. If there is a hole and a way that the culprit could use to fake her death, one must consider it.

>>4278543

really not hard at all.

have you ever seen those knives that retract when you apply pressure to the blade? just add glue and red paint.

of course there are tons of tricks like that that can be used in these instances, especially if nanjo is an accomplice, but im willing to believe for now that there is a better trick than that, or she is actually dead.

>>4278510
Actually, Witch-Hunt had two different spellings for corpse, if I recall correctly. Regardless, Nanjo is actually his daughter.

testing

>>4278552
Interesting? Sure. But she still said "Jessica's corpse".

Maybe Jessica was still alive, but I can hardly see what she could do. Plus the entire insulin thing wasn't even hinted at during EP 1-4.

>>4278533
Again, corpses aren't counted, did you even checked my post?
those declarations are made for ALL games, about the TOTAL in the BEGINNING, those three facts
you can't count a corpse along with living people which again I re-direct you to my post,
In this island you are all alone: from beatrice, to Battler in ep4. If corpses counted, this red text wouldn't even exist
but again just ignore it, of course
the facts are. poeple declarations are made out of the total in the beginnning, that's why they said taht way and not 'right now...'
Jessica counted as a person along with LIVING people while beato played around with the red
taking into account corpses don't even have to be corpses thx to ep5, this means jessica is alive. Pointing anything more is just denying the actual evidences that are true and known by everybody but you who just are always try¡ing to deny what's been explained a thousand times

>>4278335
Except for the fact that she is happy now. Have someone who loves her and everything is fine. Also she can escape the island when she wants. She's not caged at all.

Jessica on the other hand is bounded by the ushiromiya family forever.

>>4278241
Its your damn interpretation.
THye can have a big significance, they can be very important, but there's NO indication that they are 100% true. Hell, Beatrice is dancing right in the front of everyone all the time.

But there could be interpretations. While the confession scene is mostly certain bullshit with things hidden in it, the school scene could have actually happened.

Jessica made Shannon put a heavy black coat and pose as her boyfriends to her friends that wouldnt respect her if she didnt have one.

But there's more than that: its implied that everyone in the school is afraid of Jessica because she is an Ushiromiya and even her so called friends could be just superficial fuckers.

Detail for Shannon being her BEST friend.

>>4278577
Well, Episode 2 _was_ stated to be the hardest to solve...

>>4278586
Yeah. Jessica having Shannon, who is there because she is paid to be, be her BEST FRIEND, is a bit of a clue to how popular she really is.

>>4278586
> even her so called friends could be just superficial fuckers.
Or could be Jessica's friends because she forces them to. I mean, she used brass knuckles to beat up her friends, not just bare fists.

>>4278586
>But there's more than that: its implied that everyone in the school is afraid of Jessica because she is an Ushiromiya and even her so called friends could be just superficial fuckers.
When is this implied?

And if they are just superficial fuckers then why does she tell her parents she's studying at school when she's really with her 'fake friends' playing music and hanging out.

Shannon is obviously her best friend because they live together on the same island for over 10 years. Doesn't mean Jessica has no friends otherwise.

>>4278586

>>4278577
Yeah, there really is no evidence of a Doctor being on the island, or of a medical device that Jessica uses, no way she could have used insulin!

>>4278607
tsundere gag. Again don't take everything so seriously.

>>4278612

If we're to believe Shkannontrice, which still seems most likely, ridiculous tricks are involved either way.

EP4, Shannon is found dead by the well with her face blown off. Suicide seems logical, but a gun would be lying near the corpse. If we're to believe Maria collected the gun, she would not only have to know where the well to Kuwadorian is, her body would be soaking wet when Battler found her. Not to mention he comments on how her body looked as if it was moved into a position to look like she was sleeping peacefully.

Another anon a couple of threads back commented that the novel Umineko is heavily influenced from, And Then There Were None, has a gun trick that makes it look like it wasn't suicide. She was found by the well, it's not impossible to assume she situated herself in such a way that the gun would drop into it, the spacings were roughly 8 inches apart after all.

It's a bullshit trick, since it's not like Shannon can be sure the gun will fall neatly into that space, but it works. I wouldn't write off an insulin death either.

>>4278618
asthma pumps do not have insulin in them. If you want to say she faked death using the chemicals in her asthma pump then why not, but its certainly not insulin.

And why would Nanjo carry around insulin?

>>4278598

that and she, being the class president and a rich, popular girl, would have no boyfriends, and has to rely on a servant kid several years younger than her to be her boyfriend.

>>4278620
No, see, it'd be a simple gag if she was just beating up her friends with her bare fists. But she used brass knuckles, which can kill someone pretty easily.

>>4278627

It's not a bullshit trick, it's very easy to do.
All you need is to be well positioned, a rope and a stone heavy enough, rest is easy.

>>4278634
Do you think that Jessica is a slut that goes around begging for cock?

She wants Kanon to be her boyfriend. She can have anybody, but she doesn't want just anybody.

>>4278645
So... Jessica isn't a slut, but a lesbian?

>>4278598
They have been together since they were fucking kids, of course they are best friends.
Don't forget Shannon was brought on the island when she was 6.

>>4278609
If i remember it right its implied more than one time, but i think one of them is when Natsuhi and Krauss are speaking about the school festival.

Also, yeah, i would prefer fake friends instead of a abusive family.

>>4278633
He's a doctor. Doctors have all kinds of medical supplies on them. And one can use an inhaler to inject any type of drugs.
>>4278627
Shkanontrice does not seem most likely. Episode two makes it impossible for Shannon to be Beatrice at the end, unless her love for Battler enables her to move with a gaping hole in her head. Besides that, episode 4 requires her to be a marathon runner to pose as Beatrice, run back, dress up as Shannon, and then die, all using a complicated shotgun trick.

>>4278636
I figured the brass knuckles were to allude that she had them, when the fight against Ronove came around.

>>4278650
Maybe Jessica isn't aware of the Shkannon thing. If you actually go through the EP 2 scenes you'll also notice that Shannon and Kanon are never with Jessica at the same time either.

>>4278654
How about you go find it and cap it.

>>4278656
>>gaping hole in her head
That's where you see the huge hint that something is wrong.
Body could have been someone else easily.
Like say, Jessica.
Just dress her like Shannon, give her a wig and eye contacts, destroy her face and you are set.

>>4278645

true. but normal girls who are about to graduate from high school usually will have had atleast one prospective boy at school that is their age or maybe older to date. not an effeminate 16 year old servant to bring to a school festival just to keep up appearances (how old is kanon anyway?)

>>4278482
Kyrie and Jessica DO have a reason to team tag. If Jessica really wants to marry Battler and Kyrie is really Battler's mother, that it. It means Battler would become the heir and Kyrie would have direct access to the Uroshimiya fortune (or what is left of it).

>>4278667
No, Jessica would be aware of the Shkanon thing. She's known them "both" for years.
Really, for anyone to claim otherwise is retarded. There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is such an idea as THAT.

>>4278627
There's something weird about that well. Wasn't the iron grate impossible for Battler to get open?

>>4278627
Another detail is that there are two Murder weapons in EP4. One could be one beatrice and the another one could be the other one.

In the end Shannontrice picks both weapons, throw the larger one in the well first, and then commits suicide with the smaller one which fits in the 20cm gap.

I have been thinking about the significance of the various murder weapons utilized.

There's a weapon that could blow someone face, there's a weapon that just does a clean shot, a blade....do i forgot something?

One thing I don't like about the Jessica=culprit theory is that everyone says she'd never be able to escape the island. She only had a year or so until she would attend university.

>>4278678
Yeah, I always found it a little bizarre that super popular <cute> and <pop> student council president, lead singer of a band Jessica couldn't reel in a boyfriend.

>>4278676
THIS IS WHAT SHKANONTRICEFAGS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

>>4278676
Except her face wasn't destroyed. It wasn't those four bodies from Episode 1's first twilight; she just had a hole in her forehead large enough for Battler to see into.

>>4278678
Maybe Jessica didn't want to date anybody because she knew that her family would disprove of them anyway and used Shkannon so that her friends wouldn't keep bugging her about having a boyfriend.

>>4278678
16.

>>4278689
Poison.

>>4278691
She WOULDNT apply to university. Remember Eva?

She would just be forced to marry to the first rich fucker her family found

>>4278693
Maybe she wanted one, but knew she couldn't have one. I don't think Krauss or Natsuhi would want her dating after all.

>>4278424
Now I want to see this is original japanese.

The thing I hate about the guy who keep defending this theory is that he keep using all these WOULD while discarding everything that is shown in the game.

Yeah Jessica "should have known" about Shannon/Kanon, but the flashbacks say otherwise and therefore she doesn't know.
Give me a reason to disregard the flashbacks.

>>4278687
Yeah, he couldn't find a way to open it, and breaking into it with an axe was impossible.

The weird thing I remember from that scene is he talked about how Kanon sliced the grate with his retarded hand beam sword. So where the fuck is the evidence of this, why is Battler so incompetent.

>>4278691
Shannon was getting married to George, she was set too.

>>4278707
She was expected to attend college though. Kyrie brought that up in conversation with the rest of the siblings.

>>4278707
No, I'm pretty sure Jessica was going to be allowed to go to college. After all, as the heir to the family, they'd want Jessica to be the dominant member of her marriage, so that the Ushiromiyas would keep their fortune within the family.

And didn't Eva go to college anyway, on her own?

>>4278695
Large enough to see her fucking brain, which is the only thing Battler took notice of.
Look at how Rosa reacted when Battler touched the body, since she is obviously an accomplice it would make sense that she would know that Shannon is behind everything.

>>4278694
At least I'm not using magical insulin.

>>4278691
She has the burden of carrying the falling family name, with no say in the matter.

And arranged marriage. If she deeply loved someone, say within one kilometer of her during the family meeting, I can't imagine she wouldn't try to put a stop to everything.

>>4278713
Well, you want to go by flashbacks, everyone acknowledges Shannon and Kanon, and calls them different names. Does that mean that no one knows?

Because if no one knows, that's just shitty writing.

>>4278707
Actually no. EP 1 its stated that Jessica is applying to universities, when during lunch time they talk about exams.

>>4278728
Yeah. Jessica was going to have an arranged marriage, it is why she is the heir, not the head. All part of Natsuhi's ubermench plan.

>>4278699

Ok, 2 years at least. The point I was trying to make was that she'd eventually be allowed to leave the island, possibly with freedom of movement.

>>4278707

Kinzo was dead, he couldn't control the life of his grand daughter the same way he treated his own children.

>>4278729
Not in the flashbacks, you don't Shannon and Kanon talking together to someone in any flashbacks.
The only scenes where they appear together are when they are alone or with Beatrice.

>>4278739
Again, Jessica would just revolt. If Battler could do it, then why can't she?

>>4278713

Assuming jessica does not have down's syndrome, she should know that her best friend and her crush who have lived together on the island with her for years are the same person.

If she didn't know that, then she probably wouldn't know that kinzo has been dead for 2 years either. But I'm willing to bet that jessica is not in fact a retard and knows about both.

>>4278724
If the body was Jessica's, they would have seen a stake mark on her back. In addition to that, if Battler was close enough to see Shannon's brain, he should have been close enough to see the wig.

>>4278687
>>4278714
I don't think Kyrie's group were ever down there. While I can believe there's an underground passage to Kuwadorian (wouldn't put it past Kinzo), given the time discrepancies and the fact there's a phone line in a cell down there, I think all the scenes involving Kyrie's group following the first twilight are extremely suspect. I know there has to be some truth in them somewhere, but I haven't figured out what it is. Maybe the calls were made from the conference room.

There's also the issue that we have no real idea of the order of deaths in Ep4, other than Kanon being the first of Kyrie's group and 9th overall, and Battler being last. The appearance of Beatrice messes up the order as presented in the game.

>>4278749
Gee, I wonder. Why wouldn't Jessica just up and leave?

>>4278741
Kinzo is dead, but Krauss and Natsuhi treat Jessica the same way Kinzo treated them.

So does Eva and Hideyoshi with George.

And Rosa with Maria.

You got my point.

>>4278724
> At least I'm not using magical insulin.
It's a viable theory in mystery novels. Erika stated that and Dlanor agreed, don't bother them about it.

>>4278755
She is the daughter of Natsuhi and Krauss you know.

And once again, your points are just "SHOULD" and "WOULD".
I'm talking about what is shown in the game itself, nothing more nothing else.

Give me a reason to disregard every flashbacks with Jessica's entire characterization in the process.

>>4278767
god please don't tell me you're one of those Jessitrice people.

Moon-chan is fine, but Jessitrice is just

>>4278747
Or with Genji.

And Rosa spoke to both of them when she went to investigate the chapel for the first time. By the time Battler arrives, Kanon conveniently chased after Jessica with Gohda.

>>4278779
But doesn't Battler arrive with Jessica at the same time.

>>4278773
Erika is also going against the very nature of the game itself which is why she is a "villain"
That scene was a classic example of her looking at everything from a completely "logical" POV, trusting only the red.
Basically going against the whole "trust between the author and reader" theme.

>>4278779
Forgot all about Gohda, poor guy.

He deserves to live too, he's just an idiot trapped on an island of assholes, like Battler.

>>4278775
>>Implying that Shkanontrice isnt full of ''should'' and ''would''

>>4278789
>trust between the reader and author
>endorsing a theory which has the answer be that Kanon didn't really die because he's Shannon because he's Beatrice

>>4278787
Oh, you're right. Rosa told Genji and Shannon to contact Kinzo. Then Jessica became enraged believing Beatrice was the culprit and ran off.

>>4278779
That's not a flashback, that's the gameboard, not the same thing.

Flashbacks can't be modified, the witches only have powers on the gameboard.

Everything we saw about Jessica, Shannon, Kanon, George, Maria, Rosa or Eva in the past really did happen.
Same for the Ange scenes in the future.

The only scenes that aren't reliable are those of the gameboard.

>>4278801
>Jessica became enraged believing Beatrice was the culprit
Fucking Moon-chan!
Reminds me of that bullshit in episode 4.

>>4278801
> Rosa told Genji and Shannon to contact Kinzo.
So Battler never sees Shannon at that time?

>>4278804
> Everything we saw about Jessica, Shannon, Kanon, George, Maria, Rosa or Eva in the past really did happen.
THEN WHO WAS BEATRICE?

>>4278804
Anything that isnt said in red and isnt in the detective POV is up to interpretation.

You are just making shit up

>>4278812
Nope, Shannon and Genji both leave before the cousins arrive.

>>4278819
DID faggotry, everything happened in Shannon's crazy mind.

Same for Maria and Ange being so lonely that they created illusionary beings or Natsuhi being completely deluded and creating the fictional Beatrice and Kinzo to give her courage.

>>4278804
Well shit guys, Beatrice really does exist.
I think we should all just give up and die, it's for the best now.

>>4278832
Nice double standards there. But really, you are just making shit up.

>>4278777
>>Implying pony/shkanontrice is better than that.

Seriously Shkanontrice could be true just like any other theorys, but if its true it is bad writing and shitty ending ahead.

>>4278821
>>Anything that isnt said in red and isnt in the detective POV is up to interpretation.
That only works for the gameboard.

Rokkenjima during the 2 days works like the Schrödinger's cat paradox, everything can happen then.

It's not the case for the past or the future, everything we saw there really did happen.
Seriously try to understand what Umineko is about.

>>4278844
Can you fucking prove it?
There's even a possibility of EVERYTHING BEING A GOD DAMN NOVEL IN A NOVEL.

Dont go on saying shit without even knowing what you are talking about

>>4278839
There's no double standards and no contradictions there.
Maria is the only one who can see Sakuratou, Ange is the only one who can see the stakes.
They both are fucking lonely and sad.

Natsuhi is really fucking stressed by her role and has been shown to be completely deluded several times.
So imagining these scenes is for her a way to make her heart stronger, it was fucking stated in episode 5.

So what about Beatrice appearing before Shannon and Kanon in episode 2?
What could it mean?

>>4278844
It does? Because i saw ange talking to magic friends and dead people and i dont think its true but its up to interpretation.

>>4278713 Give me a reason to disregard the flashbacks

Not entirely truthful?

>>4278772

>Kinzo is dead, but Krauss and Natsuhi treat Jessica the same way Kinzo treated them.

Krauss and Natshui are very strict with Jessica; I'll agree with you there. However, I don't recall them ever punishing her without cause, nor do they punish her to the extent Kinzo did.

>So does Eva and Hideyoshi with George.

I'd disagree with you there since they are both very supportive of George, if a bit strict with him. Kinzo never seemed to care about his children after deciding they were incompetent.

>And Rosa with Maria.

I'd say Maria's father swindling and abandoning Rosa and Maria had more say in that than Rosa choosing to raise Maria as she was. Even then, she often apologizes for her actions as she doesn't want to put Maria through the same stress she herself was subject to from her own family. Being a single mother is extremely difficult, especially in a country with less support of "independent" women than the Western world.

>>4278844
Meh. To be honest, something has always, well, bugged me about the Shannon and Kanon flashback with Jessica.

Jessica starts angsting towards SHANNON about not having a boyfriend, and later on, shows up with Kanon at the school.

I viewed that, quite clearly so, as being a bit of a hint as to Jessica knowing that the two are the same.

>>4278855
Of course, I think that everything we see about the 2 days is a fiction.

Since anything could happen during these 2 days, some people wrote their own versions of these events.
Doesn't change the fact that whatever happened in the past and the future isn't part of this "everything could happen" period.

So there's no reason to think they are false.

>>4278760
I agree with you on this. It doesn't seem like it's the same entrance/exit to the location of the gold. Eva or Rosa might have noticed a path leading elsewhere at the end of those stairs. Unless it's hidden door...but I have nothing to base that on.

What Nanjo said to Krauss was somewhat interesting though. He said that it wasn't the only exit, but someone with stairs after you unlock it..and then Krauss shuts him up.

>>4278867
>>Not entirely truthful?
When?

>>4278844
While I don't mind if all flashbacks occurred as shown or not, does this mean that the call from the man from 19 years ago happens in every game? This would make Natsuhi a very easy person to manipulate.

>>4278897
*somewhere with stairs, sorry.

>>4278870
This. It is rather strange that Jessica complains to Shannon, and then she shows up at the school with Kanon.

Regardless, I think it's moot, because Jessica has to know about Shannon being Kanon. Really, anything else is just plain retarded.

>>4278897
...Maybe the stairs are in the room Krauss unlocks in Episode 1?

>>4278907
Read that part of episode 2 again, Jessica clearly doesn't know that Shannon and Kanon are the same person.

>>4278844
No, he is right. You should only trust the red text, it was said in red.

>>4278923
And that's why Erika never managed to solve the whole thing.

>>4278923
> stating in red that you should only trust the red text
I'd rather have it stated in gold.

>>4278922
Clearly doesn't know? Just because she doesn't say it doesn't mean she doesn't know.

>>4278922
Yes, Jessica has autism.

>>4278933
The way she acts around them show that she doesn't know.
Or she is an uber dyke.

>>4278887
Saying that everything that happens in these two days are bullshit doesnt means that something that happened outside these days couldnt be bullshit too.

Its like you trying to force me into a Hempel Raven's. But if x is false it doesnt mean that y is true. Both could be false.

>>4278867
Kinzo was alive until a few time ago when he was slapping Jessica's maiden ass with a wooden sword.

Natsuhi continued the legacy of Kinzo so she could very well continue abusing her daughter in his place.

George is said in ep6 that he had it hard too. But it was probably better than Maria and Jessica because of Eva's personality.

Maria had it hard not only because of her father but because Rosa hat it hard her whole life because of both Kinzo and his wife. (Remember she running away from home and meeting ''beatrice''.)

Its the chain of hate thing from ep 4.

>>4278898

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. It would have been better to say that everything happened EXACTLY as was depicted, such as different personalities (for Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice at least) rather than different physical beings.

>>4278934
She is just fucking stupid.
Show me just ONE scene that could prove that she knows.
Or that everything we saw in the flashbacks shouldn't be trusted.

>>4278922
Because they are not.
Kanon may at one point or another dress himself as Shannon or Shannon as Kanon (this one would be really forced, and you know why), but they are two different people, as their dead bodies are both seem in episode 3 and their deaths stated in red.

>>4278946
No, that's not stupidity, stupidity has its limits.

If she doesn't know, she has a serious learning disability where she doesn't process faces or her environment very well.

>>4278946
Yes, Jessica is fucking stupid and wouldn't know that her best friend and love interest of more than 3 years is the same person, and Shannon is Kanon is Beatrice.

>>4278958
lolsixteenpeople

>>4278963
Dont known if you are joking

>>4278961
Well Krauss, Natsuhi and Gohda definitely don't know.
This island is full of retards.

>>4278928
Because she lacked red text. Without love, it can't be seem, and red is the color of love.

>>4278946
Son, there's stupid, and then there is mentally disabled.

The only way one could explain Jessica not knowing is if she had an alternate persona. Repressed memories, emotions, you know the type.

>>4278976
I thought red was the color of passion.

>>4278975
Krauss, Natsuhi, and Gohda aren't shown to be close to Shannon and Kanon. Jessica is shown to be the closest to them. Oh, and Krauss has precedence for stupidity.

>>4278975
They're at least understandable because they have very little contact with the "two" aside from a professional level.

Jessica not knowing is full retard though, if Ryukishi follows that route, he better fucking explicitly state she has one too many chromosomes.

>>4278983
That's pink.
Steven Tyler agreed, don't bother him about it.

>>4278983
Ryukishi didn't research the language of flowers very closely.

Case in point, he states the forget-me-not is for truth, and it is not. Whoops.

>>4279002
Nah, I don't buy it.
We know Jessica is perfectly willing to lie in episode 4, and I don't think we'll have a disconnect in which she can easily trick Battler and yet not know that Shannon is Kanon.

Don't get too caught up in the argument that says JESSICA IS NOT SHOWN TO KNOW ERGO SHE CAN'T KNOW, because mystery novels do not work that way. Rather, we should look at the relationships, and, like Hercule Poirot, figure things out from there.

I used to think that the Shannon = Kanon setup was similar to Kinzo's.
"If everyone believes, then the illusion will become reality."

But that would mean everyone is accepting this and leaves Battler out of it and some how even Erika is informed. And the rest of the servants (even Gohda of all peopple) are perfectly okay with someone getting two paychecks.

>>4278965
Being the 17th person doesn't mean there can't be a 18th person.
Red is sometimes used to confuse you, my dear.

>>4279024
Umineko doesn't work that way.
It centers its mystery around "unsolvable" closed rooms and lots of clues in the form of red text and other
It's not that much about the psychology of the characters.

>>4279036
> It's not that much about the psychology of the characters.
But it is. "Without love, the truth cannot be seen."

>>4279036
First off, you are not an authority on how Umineko works, stop insisting that you are.
Second off, the characters are indeed integral to the part of the mystery, that's why Erika is such a monster, she doesn't actually look at people as people.
Third off, Ryukushi has said that people who just read the red text are kind of missing the point.

So yeah, no.

>>4278975
Krauss and Gohda are first rate retardeds.
Natsuhi is delusional.
Jessica talks with BOTH of them all the time.

Now for the hints:

-Kanon clothes in the festival

-The fact that Jessica cant say that she loves Kanon and vice versa

-She covers for Kanon all the time, meaning people maybe could identify something like his voice.

-The fact that there is never a Kanon x Jessica scene saw in the detective POV or confirmed in red

-The fact that Battler always ''heard from george that Jessica liked Kanon'' what could be just bullshit made up by Shannon.

-The fact that before the School festival scene, even in the first jealously/crying scene Jessica never says she ''wants to date Kanon'', just says she wants a boyfriend.

Now for something else:

Its never implied that Jessica is stupid.
Its said that nobody could pose as Kanon, just Kanon himself in red. So there was never another Kanon besides the created-by-shannon one.
Jessica is one of the two people who identify Kanon as dead in EP1

Seriously..

>>4279036
>It's not that much about the psychology of the characters
....Dude, are you retarded? One could say the characters and their relationships are the POINT of the series!

>>4279051
This. Really, I myself support Shkanontrice, but I am not going to deny that Jessica would know about the two being one and the same. That is rather silly.

>>4279089
Doubletrice is true trice bro

>>4279051
This. Battler is the one to assume that Jessica and Kanon are dating.
Battler.
Think of the implications of that for a spell.

>>4279120
Hey, just thought of something.
If Kanon is a girl, and Battler said one kilometer........

Jessica must be in love with a merman!

>>4279135
Your idiot, she's in love with gohda.

>>4279135
One kilometer, how could I have been so foolish?! It was obvious the whole time! I'm such an idiot!
Jessica is actually a man, and in love with himself!

>>4279135
Oh god, crowning moment of density, Battler, learn to tsundora!

>>4279175
He will.
In about... SIX YEARS!

>>4279199
Fuck;_;, if that scene is to be believed, I really am going to baw. Right in front of him the whole time, and he didn't notice...

>>4279232
That's why we want jessitrice to be true.
Its way better writing than LOLPONYTSUKIHIME.

>>4279243
YAMI WO KIRISAKU RAPING WOMEEEEEEEN

>>4279243
In the end you all know it to be true:

Kyrie as a culprit > Jessica as a culprit > Shannon as a culprit

Don't deny it, Kyrie as the culprit would have been fuckwin. But no. We got stuck with a DID Meido or an incestuous slut.

>>4279269
Doubletrice was here.
How about all three?

>>4279277
But then Jessica and Shannon will end up fighting over who gets to kill Battler first.

>>4279280
Meh, George just cuntpunts Shannon, Battler does likewise with Jessica, they all ride off happily in the distance.

>>4279280
Actually, if you look at Episode 4 via Doubletrice, then that little conversation between the two Beatrices, which we thought was Meta Beatrice talking to piece Beatrice somehow, could actually be considered Shannonbeato talking to Jessibeato, with Jessibeato being the Beatrice we saw.

>>4279337
An interesting concept. Certainly t'would fit the unrequited love thing Jessitrice has going for it.

>>4279292
But-but that would require George to be USEFUL!

>>4279384
Hey, his yandere can come in handy, sometimes.

>>4279399
He'll probably go on an eating binge like a woman once he discovers she enjoys crossplaying as a man.

>>4279411
I think George would be into that.
Battler and Jessica would be hysterical.
GAME OF PRETEND to the maximum. Or, perhaps not.

>>4279420
Not gonna lie, I support Jessitrice on the simple fact that he could force her to dress up as Beatrice for sex.

>>4279432
Wouldn't be dressing up if that was her true self!

>>4279432
Wow, this just became DOUBLY AWESOME.

>>4279449
>>4279432
I'd rather Jessica dress up as Marisa.

>>4278767
Well, that scene just became much more depressing. Holy shit man, I think I'm about to cry.

>>4279476
Let's meet at the middle, Marisa with Beato's cackle.

>>4279485
The kicker is when Battler guesses that Jessica won't give up on her love. That's pretty brutal.

>>4279508
Ah, well, Battler did kinda freak the fuck out in episode 5 when he realized the truth. That makes me think it could have been something right under his nose the whole time.

>>4279546
Nah, his tears were over the fact that George got to tap Beato's fine ass before he did.

>>4279508
LOL IS HE WITHIN ONE KILOMETER?
LOL YOU'RE SO INELEGANT

Battler is troll of the year all years.

>>4279580
Putting aside what seems most likely and all that, does anyone really want a Shannon end over Jessica?

>>4279611
Not particularly.

...Though George has liked Shannon since she was 9, so I'm not sure I'd trust him around any kids they had.

>>4279621
Yeah, he's like five years older or some shit, isn't he?

George is such a fucking unlikable character, I hope he's involved in some way to validate my hatred.

>>4279611
I don't think so, no.

>>4279611
Well, Shannon is just plain old dull. I can't really feel moved by her being crushed emotionally by Battler, because she's just so damn bland.

>>4279639
George just fails at life. He really, really does. I can see him being the culprit, though, no one would really notice him coming because he's George.

Jessica actually loves George, but decided to give up on him because of Shannon.
You know there is nothing wrong with this theory.

>>4279663
Doubletrice man, Or Fusiontrice. Watch it be the answer.

>>4279712
>Anyone loving George
No, no, there is indeed.
Also, why would she encourage her love onto George?

>>4279729
Without LSD, it can't be seen.

>>4279729
To help her get over with it. But it didn't. Like forcing herself to love Kanon.
This explains why she is so interested in Sayo's relationship with him.

>>4279764
Still, marrying off one's love interest to George is a sin beyond redemption.

>>4279764
So how is Battler involved in this?