/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>4209534
Well, I want Meta-Battler to be awesome again, like he was in the end of episode 5.
Bern as the GM, however, makes that very unlikely.

>>4209534
Is... that a toothbrush he's holding?

It will confirm ShKanontrice.
I'm only looking forward to the reactions really, I don't really care about the VN itself.

that process was intended and ep5 just made it even more clear, where the pieces amde what Erika said because she had 'detective authority'
up to ep4 I thought they were humans, ep5 told me they were real pieces
still Kanon's death in ep6 was sad

>>4209556

I think it's a pipe.

>>4209556
Well, he's got to get the taste of semen out of his mouth SOMEHOW.

>>4209534
Yes, I miss the mystery aspect.

The environment was genuinely creepy back in 1-3. Now the deaths are just boring as shit. EP6 was more irritating with the fucking sound effects than the actual deaths themselves.

>>4209561
In episode 1-4, they were humans though. When George, Krauss, Kanon, Shannon and Jessica made their stand, I know I rooted for them, to rise just this once above their demise
I think Battler should start trying to save his family now, more than ever.

>>4209580
Hey, Meta-George and Meta-Jessica married their Meta-Love interests, it's all good. The Meta-world is a ton of alot cooler than the normalfag world.

>>4209534
At the first time, I do my best to try again
against the inevitable tragedy.

In the second time, I become disgusted
towards the inevitable tragedy.

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.

-Frederica Bernkastel

>>4209597
I know. I think being stuck in the Meta is bad, and I think Battler needs to get back and save his family, and his waifu, in a place that matters.

>>4209597
>seventh time
Wait, wait, wait a minute here....

>>4209629
it was just a higurashi poem, don't worry

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

You still don't know what is the sin?
Then, that itself is your sin.

-Frederica Bernkastel

Bern is a master troll

>>4209571
The sound effects genuinely creeping me out though, in the start. ;_;

Please tell me what happened in this night.
It's like the cat inside the box.

Please tell me what happened in this night.
You don't know if the cat in the box is dead or alive.

Please tell me what happened in this night.
The cat in the box was dead.

-Frederica Bernkastel

>>4209645
>>4209597
RYUKUSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

>>4209629
Though it really wound be the 8th game, since the first time you 'try again' it would be the 2nd.

Calling it now, Meta-fiction GOOD end.

She wasn't discouraged nor did she cry at her fate.
She was beautiful.

She didn't fawn anyone and fought them all by herself.
She was noble.

She shined brightly, like a divine figure.
I needed someone like her.

-Frederica Bernkastel

Higurashi poems were really meant to umineko and not higurashi. Ryuukishi had it planned since the beggining.

How does it make you feel?

you peopel haven't even read higuradhi or AT LEAST bernkastel poems or what?

>>4209668
Meta-world can go do whatever it wants, I want the so-called "pieces" to have a good end.
To ignore the pieces is to be akin to Bernkastel in that twisted trial scene.

The most intricate thing to find in this world.
Is it a needle that you lost in the desert?

The most intricate thing to find in this world.
Is it a crow's feather that you lost in the darkness of the night?

The most intricate thing to find in this world is,
Realizing your own erroneous contemplation.

-Frederica Bernkastel
Bern is fucking DEEP.

I cannot quench your thirst
Because even if you yearn for the truth, you refuse to believe in it.

I cannot quench your thirst
Because no such truth exists that you are in anticipation for.

But I still want to quench your thirst.
Because I am the one the that put you into the desert.

-Frederica Bernkastel

>>4209682
Well, perhaps we haven't, but we CAN type a sentence without looking like a gibbering retard.

>>4209687
Thank god someone isn't a meta 50 first date fan.

>>4209687
We are just relating bern poems with umineko, got a problem with that?

>>4209687
Can't do.
This isn't Higurashi, it isn't about creating a miracle.
Whatever happened on Rokkenjima already happened and lots of people did died.
Most you could hope for is a Amakasua who is actually Battler x Ange ending.
Though the culprit, aka Shannon, is probably still alive too somewhere.

>>4209710
Oh, don't get the wrong idea, Meta-World is fine with me, but I find the idea of Battler never returning to the island to save his family disgusting.

>>4209674
> The guy who originally did the classification of the seven demons with the seven sins was Peter Binsfeld, a German auxiliary bishop and witch hunter. He was born in the 16th century in the small town of Binsfeld, in the district of Bernkastel-Wittlich. He wrote a book, which was very famous at his time, Hexentraktat, in which he argues that witches do exist and explains how to find, interrogate and execute them.

Just discovered this little snippet, too:
> The references to Dante's Divine Comedy are both obvious and subtle. While Beatrice and Virgilia are rather straightforward, more easily missed is that the Stakes of Purgatory's relative ages directly correspond to the order of the terraces in 'Purgatorio' as Dante and Virgil ascend towards the meeting with Beatrice (Pride first, then Envy, Wrath, Sloth, Greed, Gluttony, and finally Lust.)

>>4209717
Yeah, a miracle can't happen. Like it did not happen in episode 5, and episode 6 right?

>>4209732
Yeah, fuck that noise.
Everyone died in vain because of a promise that Battler made to a twelve year old?
That's not justice, that's disgusting!

>>4209533
Now you did it again. Kindly stop spamming, harassing and generally attacking www. anon
talk
. com, please. We don't want you there. We never did. Understood? PS: If you want these messages to stop, simply stop fucking with us, remove all lying troll articles about AT and kill the illegal clones. Then you will never be bothered again. Every single time we see the slightest attack or spam on our site (which can be reasonably expected to origin here or any related "chan"), you will get 3,195 more of these messages as a result. It's really up to you. This is a promise that WILL be kept up indefinitely if need be. Seriously.

Yours sincerely, an anonymous AnT and general well-doer of the Internet as a whole.

>>4209717
uh....
Good end is possible, and probably will happen.
They just have to roll a game where the culprit gets a early checkmate and doesnt kill anyone.

You know, ''the truth from the future replaces the truth from the past''

>>4209732
No miracle happened in the real world of episode 5 and 6.
You are an idiot if you don't realize what the meta-world, the magic and these miracles meant.

>>4209717
If Shannon is still alive after killing everyone, I will rage. Hard. Bitch needs to be put down.

>>4209754
Yeah, from the beginning, killing an entire family for a little promise someone made as a child is hopelessly retarded, I can't see a satisfying ending happening if they all die/are already dead.

For EP7, yeah, I think I'd prefer a bit more emphasis on the mystery again. I didn't mind the grimdark or the focus on characters in EP6, but goddamnit R07, if you pull this character exposition-dumping shit again, at least make it Kyrie or Asumu-related. Fuck.

As for endings...well, no matter what, some pieces are going to end up dead. Battler will probably make it home and prevent Ange from going fucknuts crazy, so there's the happy piece ending. I'm one of the fags hoping for a crazy, ronery hobo Meta-Battler, even though he has Moetrice and Verochia was confirmed for horse shit.

>>4209754
>>Implying that the promise is all of the reason and not simply a part of it

>>4209774
Name calling? Nice!
But no, if Battler learns his sin, they can create a game-board that ends well.
It was a miracle for Meta-Battler to discover the truth, and it was a miracle for Beato to recover her memories, but it happened. I don't think you can pick and choose when miracles can and can not happen.

>>4209692
let's start with the ad hominem insults then anon, it's the thing you better do after all

>>4209773
>>''the truth from the future replaces the truth from the past"
That's not what it means.
Also Umineko doesn't take place in the same setting as Higurashi, no one is traveling into parallel worlds.
What happened on the island already happened and nobody can do anything about it.

>>4209776
Someone has to write episode 1 and 2.
She probably went even crazier when she realized after killing everyone that her magic was a sham though.

>>4209798
Well, the Meta-exists, and the kakera has indeed been established. Remember that whole scene in episode 5?
Stop making stuff up, Battler clearly goes into the sea of kakera.

>>4209798
Its what it means too.
What do you think the kakeras are? Just representations?

No. They're different worlds, different realities, and even if there arent kakera travelers like Rika, a good end is possible.

The people who died in ep1 had a bad end just like the people who died in onikakushi or any higurashi scenario, but the final good end replaces the past bad ends.

>>4209798
Uh, dude, did you even read episode 4?
Lambda trolls Ange by saying that if Battler wins against Beato, he'll come home, sure enough, but not home to HER kakera.
Everything is not set in stone, and the game still has a point to it beyond Battler courting Beatrice.

>>4209807
I still think Featherine
a) In witch form, just watches the games and then writes about them
b) In ep4, it was mentiones more letters were found, maybe she jus contacted the people, checked them and then wrote a novel based on them
maybe both, got the letter, then saw the game

>>4209815
>>4209814
Meta-world do happen, but not in the way you think.

Seriously, you guys can't be missing all the HUGE foreshadowing that has been going on since fucking episode 1.
It's not a sea of kakera, they are moving through different "stories".
Everything that happen in episode 1-6 is basically the analysis of different fictions about one particular event, the Rokkenjima massacre.

Think of these detective meeting in these mystery novels when every detective give his own version of the event, it's like this.

That's why there are thing like the different colored text, terms like Game Master, 2 versions of the events of each game, etc...

>>4209815
Or, to be more precise, all endings coexist. You just keep the one that makes you happier.
So yes, Ange's gonna be a depressed, homicidal derp anyways.

>>4209851
Hello mystery, how are you?

Without love it cannot be seen.

>>4209857
Stop being a retard.

>>4209851
No, Kakeras exist, hence why Erika is sometimes on the island, sometimes not. It's not like only episode 1 occured, after all. But whatever, keep pushing for your GRIMDARK ending, I'm sure someone will care.

>>4209815
By Episode 4, you should have already realized that the different gameboards are FICTION, based upon the actual events of the Rokkenjima Massacre. The actual events of the island have already taken place, and anything that we see on the boards are nothing more than embellishments of this one truth.

>>4209862
calling names etc

You are the one accepting only one interpretation and ignoring a whole bunch of foreshadowing, not me.

>>4209851
Then I'm confused. I would agree if you meant EP1-4. EP5 is the flaw in your analysis - people survive there.

>>4209866
So how eva survives in one world and die in other worlds?

>>4209866
Hm? Then the whole thing in an exercise in pointlessness. You're better off watching a harem comedy.

>>4209866
Ange was from the EP3 gameboard, right?

If everything ended in the first episode, how did she get there?

What a bullshit ending that would be, if it turns out to be true.

>>4209865
Erika's presence is actually one of the thing that make the fiction thing fucking obvious.

She is a literal Mary Sue, what happened was that a poor girl fell in the sea near the island just when the event took place.
She COULD HAVE gotten on the island, that's why she could be used.

And because her personality or role wasn't set in stone, being a stranger, she could be used as Bern wanted.

That's why she has all these powers and this personality, she really is a self-insert in a fiction.

>>4209891
We don't know where Ange come from.
People only thought she came from episode 3 because she first appeared at the end of this episode and because Eva was still alive.
But that's just a correlation, not a fact.

So I'm considering going back and rereading an ep tonight. Which one should it be, and is there anything someone wants me to look for, so that they don't have to bother with it themselves?

>>4209892
Explain Eva surviving, then.
And Erika is a mary-sue who fails to solve the mystery . Hardly a good detective.

>>4209878
>>EP5 is the flaw in your analysis - people survive there.
No they don't, they all die in the explosion, R07 himself implies it in an interview.

>>4209904
But we know for a fact Eva died in EP1, I don't see how you could fake a stake being lodged into your skull.

>>4209909
Eva survived in the true event.
Battler probably did as well.
And the culprit too, someone has to write episode 1 and 2 letters.

>>4209904
Oh, so you have no proof that everything is fiction, you are just asserting your own theory?
Well, that's nice, but it seems like you missed Lambda's scene in episode 4.
>>4209908
Episode 1, if you would. Keep an eye out for suspicious behavior from Kanon, Jessica, and Kyrie.

>>4209904
So eva survives in the main game even tough she is declared dead in another scenarios?

Shit doesnt make sense.
Its simple as that.

And for that matter, umineko IS fiction so you could interpret that yur point of view may SOMEHOW be a little right for us, reading the novel, but not for the novel.

>>4209916
Episode 1 was a fiction too.

>>4209909
Episode 6. Say hi to Miss Featherine for me.

>>4209920
Wait what.

What is this true event you're talking about.

Are you telling me a theory is that all these games are just bullshit breadcrumbs that lead to some kind of "Real Rokkenjima?"

>>4209911
The worse fucking plot device to use for a victory event.
If R07 really said this...
i'mmad.jpg

>>4209922
Okay, EP1. Will do.

>>4209935
He said something along the lines of "People who know the truth will know the fate of the people who survived EP5."

Basically throwing into your face that they died, Ryukishi is so fucking grimdark it's not even funny.

>>4209926
There is no contradiction there.
Episode 1-6 are fictions, "what if" stories, people can live or die, it's a fiction so it doesn't matter.
The only thing is that they have to contain the same "truth", that truth was what Battler was trying to find in episode 1-4, whoever find it and assert it win the game.

>>4209948
Meh, and yet I still think there will be a good end out of all of this.
I certainly don't think the point of the series was so Battler could fall in love with Beatrice, and then have everyone remain dead.

>>4209942
Actually, the introduction of EP1 actually might be of some use.
Kinzo being stubborn and all, and having Nanjo and Genji worry might have at least some influence in the events.
But that's just me.
in b4 "Kinzo is dead". The intro has no date.

So, if ep1 is bullshit as is ep 2~6 we can declare that everything is bullshit and that the true story will be told in the last EP where nobody (or almost nobody) dies and just vanish and go somewhere else.

How does it make you feel to turn all of the games pointless?

DID MEIDOS and everyone is dead.
Yeah, some ending that'll make!

The fiction thing was pretty obvious since episode 2, you guys should pay more attention.
Episode 5 and 6 just made it more obvious.

How are you /jp/? still believing in aliens DID?

>>4209970
Feels like a tremendous waste of time.

Ryukishi could have condensed it to two episodes and it would be interesting, I feel so cheated by becoming emotionally invested in the story if that hackneyed ending is true.

Who the fuck could want such a stupid conclusion?

>>4209979
Oh, stop samefagging, the fiction thing is not what happened. You just want a GRIMDARK end so you can contemplate the nature of love and feel deep or whatever.

>>4209987
Everyone know that the DID thing is true.
Some people just don't want to admit it, I can understand them I guess.

>>4209991
Play episode 2 again, see all the hints about it, and stop being a fucking idiot.

>>4209970
It's not bullshit, since every single gameboard has the truth built into them. For instance, Battler could have never seen Kinzo alive in the first four episodes since he's actually dead.

Much like all other forms of magic, the gameboards are themselves embellishments of the truth. This means it has be based upon the truth itself.

Umineko is Japanese for pretentious, true facts.

>>4209993
>>4210000

I will love when ryuukishi comes and say ''haha i dont believe you guys fell for this bullshit''

>>4210005
So why does Lambda promise Ange to bring Battler back? Why does the sea of kakera have it's own theme? For that matter, how is Ange involved in this by any means?
How is Bern involved?

>>4209948
Then yeah, a big-ass explosion. No landslides, no boiler, no nothing. A bomb.
The only safe place is Kuwadorian.
So, basically, they're just destroying Kinzo's memoires by destroying the Rokkenjima mansion, and the epitaph is the location of the gold, heir and safe spot.
No wonder someone wanted them out of there so badly.
Oh, me? Just being delusional.

>>4210013
Too bad he won't, enjoy your disappointment.

>>4210013
And in his next breathe says "SO HAVE THIS TOTALLY COOL IT WAS ALL A STORY WITHIN A STORY END."

Fuck year EP1. Only at the OP and I already feel like the atmosphere's 10x better than later games.

It's a shame that Battler only starts to be a little bit competent when there's hardly any mystery around.

>>4210032
Yeah, I don't know why people rank EP1 so low.

If you take out the utterly ridiculous ECONOMICS exposition at the start, it's one of the better episodes, storywise and just with the setting.

OP here, I'm sure it's been said, but Umineko as a story becomes rather pointless if the bad end is inevitable.
Say it's about discovering the truth, but a fat load of a good the truth does you when you're dead.
It seems like a ton of you just stopped thinking and blindly bought everything episode 6 said.
Dangerous process, there.

>>Implying that ryuukishi will spill the beans before the end of EP7

>>4210048
Yeah, just like tsumihoroboshi told us all the truth

Dante would be proud of Umineko, wouldn't he?

>>4210056
He better not. That would not only mess him up as a writer, he would betray all his fanbase.

>>4210047
This is true. And I don't think the FINANCE FINANCE FINANCE shit involves too much Kanon or Jessica, and Kyrie wasn't exactly involved in it anyways. In other words, ctrl until those parts finish.

Also SDKFJASLK YES BATTLER IS TALL THAT DOESN'T MEAN EACH OF HIS RELATIVES HAS TO COMMENT ON IT SASSLDFJLSKRAAAAAAAGE

>>4210048
Episode 6 didn't reveal anything, it just gave more clues to things people were thinking for a long time.
ShKanon was popular since the first episode.
I personally saw the fiction thing since the second.

What do you prefer, a story that actually use foreshadowing and consistent thematic or a story that has a twist that come from nowhere?
What do you think R07 will use?

>>4210080
In the end he will solve the mistery because he's tall enough to get something from a high place.

You heard it here first

>>4210048
That's exactly like his bullshit little other story he is doing with the blonde princess, what a hack Ryukishi is if he uses that plot device for two stories he's doing at the same time.

>>4210065
but really, who thought that the parasytes part was real, Rena was crazy enough and Miyo's books looked a bit...
I mean ALIEN parasytes was just too much, I like to believe they came from the swamp

>>4210087
He'll be able to reach up somewhere and defuse the bomb, wherever it's hidden. Like in Higurashi, when Rena put the bomb timer somewhere near the roof? Battler wouldn't have to climb and fight anyone. He would just lean forwards a little bit and rip the whole thing out of the wall with his steroids-enhanced POWER FISTS.

>>4210086
>What do you think R07 will use?
Obviously the twist, he's not very talented, and the foreshadowing you are suggesting is a terribly stupid way to end a story.

>>4210086
I don't know, man...
I really don't know...

>>4210091
Everything we knew about Verochia Dragoon Story ended up being goatshit, though.

>>4210096
Believe it or not, there's people that still dont got that the alien DID shit was bullshit.
Found some on /a/

>>4210101
Yeah. Remember when the foreshadowing told us that Beato was an actual person on the island? Oh, I mean, suit Beato is the actual person, not dress beato? Hahaha!
You are just overlooking the big things, like when Lambda trolls Ange by USING Kakeras.
She USED Kakeras in order to cheat her out of getting Battler back.
For him to have it be this EVERYONE IS DEAD BUT BATTLER KNEW THE TRUTH end is stupid.
It really makes everything pointless.

>>4210127
This. Kakeras exist.

>>4210127
That wasn't foreshadowing, that was just shits only a retard would think about, standard obvious red herring that you see in every mysteries.
Nobody sane thought for even a second that Beatrice could exist as her own person on the island.

DID and fiction things, no matter how stupid you think they are, were foreshadowed a lot.
Also read what Lambda told to Ange again.

>>4210144
Oh do tell me of the "numerous" amounts of foreshadowing. I'll shoot you down, easily.

>>4210144
Nice comeback. It's a red herring! How is it a red herring? I don't know, but by saying a red herring and the word retard, that means we can discount it.
God, you're like one of those people who says we can ignore when a character lies, because it's just a red herring.

>>4210144
come on, if the kinzo is dead and Shkanon theory first appeared was just to make room for Beatrice, the killer, not just to make Shkanon the killer

also I suggest you to to re-read it to the part or just watch the anime ep for an abridged version

The Ange to get Battler back is the one of the world where he wins and returns, therefore of that kakera

>>4210147
For what?
The DID thing or the fiction thing?
It would be kinda long to write everything, for ShKanon you had numerous threads about it so look on Easymodo, just know that nobody managed to shoot it down.

>>4210160
Fiction thing, naturally.
Show me the huge amount of foreshadowing for it

>>4210144
There are truth mixed with lies.
Or you are saying that Kyrie, Eva, Natsuhi, Jessica, Shkanon, George, Battler, Rudolph, Rosa, Maria and Zombie kinzo are all master minds at the same time? Not to count that Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Hideyoshi and Krauss were helping them all along.

>>4210158
ShKanon appeared because their interactions were damn weird and because they never appeared in front of Battler at the same time.
Same for Kinzo.
It wasn't to make some place for a mysterious x, nobody seriously thought it could be real.

>>4210170
>>Kyrie, Jessica, Nanjo, ShKanon
Yup, those four are suspicious as fuck.
The second and the fourth the most so.

>>4210160
>nobody managed to shoot it down.
Several people have poked numerous holes in it, yet most supporters left those threads making Shkannontrice looking much worse off, as well as unable to shoot down several of the alternate proposed theories.

>>4210160
I never saw anyone sucessfully shot down the ''erika saw them both together'' hole.

>>4210169
Here, I am waiting. Where is the amazing foreshadowing that indicates this hopeless future you are going on about?
I don't see anything outside of episode 6, I am afraid.

>>4210197
I've never seen an alternate theory to Shkannon, particularly regarding the EP6 closed room.

If there was a solid alternate theory, we could move on from it, but Shkannon, despite all its tremendous flaws, is still the most solid.

>>4210197
Oh, and the issue of the creator of Beatrice not possibly being able to be Shannon. That is a major hole, also.

>>4210209
Maybe you will get one when most of us read ep6.
You know, i dont want to be hardly spoiled so i wont discuss this shit

>>4210169
Fiction then, I will surely forget a lots of thing so bear with me.

-First all the narrative devices like the colored text, reliable POV, etc..
.
-Terms like GAME MASTER make it kinda obvious too.

-Bern's power, to create a miracle if there at least even 0.0001% chance, doesn't work on Beatrice.
How could it not? Obviously because everything has already been "written", no miracle can change what has already happened.

-Episode 2, when the Battler vs Beatrice game really start, scene just before was Kyrie realizing that the island was a true closed room and that if everybody was to disappear, it would become like a fiction.
Beatrice just after that agree.

-The Knox's rule are a narrative device too, used in fictions.
Yet the mystery of Rokkenjima abides to these rules.
Why would a real world murder events abide to fucking detective rules?

-Erika, already wrote about her before.

-The fact that the GM can only act during the 2 days.

More to come

>>4210203
>>I never saw anyone sucessfully shot down the ''erika saw them both together'' hole.
You mustn't have seen much threads then, this is shot down all the time.

Battler's POV, Erika using fucking red text, fantasy version, etc...

>>4209534
>Battler's POV
Regarding this, since most scene are written from 3rd person narration, doesn't that give us terribly little actual information to work with?

>>4210226
Erika talked with the two of them, counted them, had then in her line of sight and would sure noticed if one of them was missing.

To disregard that is to throw detetective point of view and authority in the trash and thus eliminating the credibility of Knox and battler POV on ep 1~4
No, nobody shot it down sucessfully.

There's absolutely no way people wouldn't realise that shannon/kanon were insane by the time the murders take place (well, maybe Krauss could be fooled by it..). If half of the cast is lying about it, it's usefulness as a plot device is almost nullified.

>>4210236
POV and narration aren't necessarily the same thing.

>>4210242
What we saw of Erika was the fantasy version.
What Erika did was irrelevant because we only saw her through Battler.
You should have understood this when she started using red text and bullshit detective mary sue power.

>>4210236
It's about whose thoughts you're allowed to follow. If it's either Battler or Ange in games one through four, it's good. If it's not, take it with a grain of salt.

>>4210256
Despite Battler's narration, Erika had one actual opportunity to see Shannon and Kanon together, and that was during her introduction.

>>4210245
Everything lies in the realm of possibility, which is what the GM uses.
These are "what if" stories after all, it's possible that the people there are just that stupid and blind.

In the true version of the event, people could have realized it, who know.

>>4210268
Yeah and we, once again, saw that scene from Battler's POV.
What Erika saw in the "real" version, we don't know.

Wow, you fags just don't get it. Ryukishi introduced the knox rules SPECIFICALLY to say that it's not going to be some retarded CRAZY DISEASE or something like that ending. He's not going to have Shannon and Kanon be the same person, that's worse than small bombs.

>>4210224
>-First all the narrative devices like the colored text, reliable POV, etc..
Well, that is why it is called the "Meta-World". That doesn't mean it never happened. Remember, all of the tools and tricks are tied down to the truth, specifically, of the particular kakera. If it were just fiction, each story wouldn't have a core made of truth.
>-Terms like GAME MASTER make it kinda obvious too.
Once again, I am well aware of the Meta-world, it does not, however, mean that none of that stuff never happened.

>-Bern's power, to create a miracle if there at least even 0.0001% chance, doesn't work on Beatrice.
Well, so you ARE acknowleding the witch's power? Well, I direct you to Lambda's miragecoordinator scene in episode 4.
>How could it not? Obviously because everything has already been "written", no miracle can change what has already happened.
No, it could not because Bern is not the controller of the kakera, Beatrice, and later Battler is. Bern has a shot now, that she is the GM though.

>-Episode 2, when the Battler vs Beatrice game really start, scene just before was Kyrie realizing that the island was a true closed room and that if everybody was to disappear, it would become like a fiction.Beatrice just after that agree.
Speculation on your part, nothing more.


>-The Knox's rule are a narrative device too, used in fictions.
The Knox rules aren't in full effect, Dlanor and Virgillia say as much.
Yet the mystery of Rokkenjima abides to these rules.

>Why would a real world murder events abide to fucking detective rules?
Because that is how the kakera is shaped. The world adheres to it. And not even, actually. The rules are helpful shortcuts.

-Erika, already wrote about her before.

>-The fact that the GM can only act during the 2 days.
Well, that time period is the particular kakera, nothing more and nothing less.

In the end, you haven't proven that all the games never happened, you just used the meta concept to conclude that. But then we run into the issue of whatever the fuck Ange is doing with Featherine, and the promise Bern made to Ange about Battler coming back.
In the end, we have kakeras that adhere to mystery rules. Not stuff that never happened.

>>4210256
Battler already completed his own speech jumping from meta to real world in pretty much every episode, if he could use red at that time i wouldnt see any problem to a meta jump with red right after that.

Erika was identified as a real person and the detective in red. To deny Erika is to Deny ALL OF EP5 (and probably ep6) and the detective authority, its also the same as denying red.

You could also interpret mary sue powers as ''she had the opportunity to do everything she want and not a super power.

Still too farfetch'd, Try harder.

>>4210291
Just one thing, I never said I acknowledged Bern's power as true magic or some shit like this.

Personally I think that the true Bern is some kind of detective, her power indicate that she can always solve a case.

But she can't use her "magic" in Umineko where her cases are fictions to begin with.

>>4210289
I hate when people invoke Knox when they have no fucking idea what the rules even state.

There is copious amounts of foreshadowing to Shkannon, stop throwing a bitch fit. It's a shoddy plot device, and hopefully is just a bright red herring, but there is not a single shred of evidence that runs against it, aside from the dubious claim that Erika saw Shannon and Kanon at the same time, which is mere speculation since Ryukishi is a faggot and gave the "perspective lol" asspull.

>>4210312
I never denied Erika, read what I wrote again.
Only what we saw of her was ONLY the fantasy version of the event.
She really was in the story as a self-insert.

>>4210318
Well, then it's a zero sum game.
The Meta world doesn't exist, neither did any of Rokkenjima ever exist.

Ange will not get Battler, and that is that. Everyone dies, none survive. Ever.

Wonderful ending, there.

>>4210318
She can ''create a miracle'' but she cant make 000000000000000000,1% into 100% in one try. She just has the power of somehow someday reaching the miracle.

>>4210331
Everything point to Battler being still alive though.
Amakusa says hi.

>>4210329
I know what the rules state. I know that they don't necessarily go against ShKannon. However, I think that Ryukishi was trying to say that the mystery will have a logical solution, not this crap.

>>4210281
Even if Battler's POV is compromised, Erika would still be able to see what went on in that room. This is where the problem lies.

If Erika didn't see Shannon and Kanon together, she would've been able to claim that they were the same person in Episode 6.

>>4210348
It's like I'm really reading a Nasu VN!

>>4210348
Um, how? How is Juuza Battler?
And if he was Battler, you'd think he'd be nicer to his aunt.

>>4210337
So tl;dr Bern is probability personified.

>>4210354
I think she would have been a bit worried at the end of ep5 when she made everyone go into the room to listen to her conclusions if Shannon or Kanon hadn't been there

>>4210348
Everything points to him? Could you specify?

>>4210354
You're treating it like a solid novel, you should know by now that Ryukishi will make the claim she made the mistake because "She had no love" or she was so dead set on Natsuhi being the culprit, despite the fact that detectives should not make that kind of glaring mistake, thus invalidating her powarz bullshit.

Fuck Ryukishi makes me rage, how could he screw this story up, it was going so well in the first half.

>>4210375
Deception, when done correctly, is more effective than the truth.

>>4210281
She was with both Kanon and shannon in:
Her introduction scene
When they reunited in the second day
In Kinzo's room, Getting the stairs
And later was with them the whole time in the parlor.

You are saying that even tough she was with them the whole time she didnt suspect that there was one person left, even counting the number of people with her multiple times?

What kind of bullshit argument is that?

>>4210371
More like she is detective personified.
And Lambdadelta is murder personified.
That would explain the weird relationship between them, this is the relationship between a "case" and someone that try to solve it, they can live without each other but they can't stop requesting each other.

Beatrice is the personification of Shannon's love for Battler.
She can only become alive after completing the epitaph, meaning murdering people.
That's why Lambda gave "power" to Beatrice.

I always thought it was kinda obvious.

Bern and Lambda are concepts. Lambda, witch of certainty, is the naked reality of what happened, what explains her relationship with Beatrice and the fact that she took over the GM position. Bern, witch of miracles, is what could have happened in the island, what explains her relationship with Battler, the fact that she opposes Lamba and even her design, a reference to Schrödinger's cat.

Something happened in the island, there is only one truth about what happened but not all facts are known. The box is closed.

>>4210390
but then if she had known, she'd had used it for ep6 instead of egh, death

>>4210348
> Amakusa says hi.

Where did this Battler = Amakusa bullshit come from again? Like, there is nothing tying them together.

>>4210394
>>4210354
Once again we don't know what she saw, to who she really talked, etc...
What we saw was only the "fantasy Erika", nothing more

While everyone was in the room, the real Erika didn't have to know that, see where I'm going?

>>4210409
Oh, now you're just indulging yourself here. Yuck, this sort of story sucks.

>>4210423
They're the only people who laugh like 'hihihihi" or somesuch, crosses, but mainly started out as a joke to ARCHER Battler.

>>4210423
It's just a pet theory, though it's getting more popular these days.
The cross, the way they talk and laugh, the curious phone talk in episode 6, the physical appearance and hair.
And it would make a nice ending, Ange would finally get back her brother.

>>4210409
Brb, I vomited in my mouth a little.

>>4210423
Amakusa laughs like Battler
He speaks engrish like Battler
He is a womanizer

>>4210442
Why would Battler not tell Ange who he is, and before even meeting her, go join the French military or whatever to become a fucking counter sniper? How does this make sense in the slightest?

>>4210442
Well, bro, too bad Juuza killed Ange.
Battler sure is a dick!

>>4210463
Shock from the killings/getting shot in the face made him lose his memory.

>>4210463
Guilt, running away from your sin, etc... seeing your entire family die and realizing it's partly your fault can do this to a man/

>>4210471
He didn't, episode 6 says hi.

>>4210477
Okay no, fuck you, this is not Fate/Stay Night.

>>4210430
God, if it was the truth, at least Erika would have seen her own POV and wouldnt make that kind of mistake. She's playing to win for god sake.

As far as i think Shkanon(but maybe not shkanontrice) is okay, this explication is too fucked up to be plausible.

If the whole thing is resolved already, Battler has nothing to gain from winning.
Yay! He found out that some people in his family are cold blooded murderers!
Oh, he can't do anything about it though.

He'd be better off just going to the golden land and having everyone be innocent of blood.

>>4210463
Oh, this was the same question I posed days ago.
An argument stated that due to the shock of losing a family, and that evidencing his existence would pose some sort of (as of yet undescribed) danger to Ange and her postion, he rebuild his life from 0, and hid his ID for the sake of her sister.
Crazy shit, man. Awesome when tripping.

>>4210485
I wouldn't put it past Ryu

>>4210471
maube the one who died was Ushiromiya Ange but just legally, deciding to run with amakusa, ditching her past

>>4210463
It makes as much sense as DID, everything=fiction and BOMB.
Seriously, how can you faggots even enjoy discussing this shit over and over?
I can't wait for episode 8, then the Umineko threads will finally stop.

>>4210486
>>at least Erika would have seen her own POV
Only works if this was real.
But since it was a fiction, therefore scripted, there is only one POV at any single time.
So Erika can't see anything else.

>>4210511
umad.jpg

>>4210498
He never tried to gain anything from winning though.
Did you even pay attention?
His goal was NEVER to save his family, it was only to disprove the WITCH DID IT bullshit.

>>4210511
You know, you can hide these threads if you dislike them.
Shit like this is one of the few reasons I visit /jp/, no, 4chan at all.

>>4210511
REALLY?
I don't think so, being Ryu the one who said that some mysteries and closed rooms are left for the reader to solve
Add to that rage threads and the usual threads we amke about every VN, then the spur of the translation of ep8... you have at least till the end of 2012

>>4210512
So how do she knows what she did in offscreen scenes? Like putting wiretape in the windows and shit like that?

Also this fiction theory isnt nearly a estabilished truth yet.

>>4210511
Umineko might not end at eight games.

Have fun with your endless seacats.

>>4210527
Did you miss out on the tea party in episode 4?
He wanted to get back to his family, that always part of his motive.

>>4210546
>>Also this fiction theory isnt nearly a estabilished truth yet.
Of course, I'm only going along my theory, don't mind me.

Also, just because it is a fiction doesn't mean that they can't do shits off-screen you know.

>>4210536
of course I didn't include the 'possible' second season that will probably won't happen unless DEEN was stupid enough to sign to adapt everything, then... wait till 2014

>>4210555
Go back =/= save.
He knows that he can't save them from what happened during the 2 days.

>>4210527
Motives can change, you know.

After all, if Battler stuck to his guns to prove that there was no magic on Rokkenjima, this shit would have ended at EP4. But no, he is in love with a figment of someone's imagination, and now he's dicking around being an Endless Sorcerer, and splendidly fucking that up also.

>>4210571
Nah, you forget what Beato says when his theories implicate Rudolf and Kyrie
"Oh, and you can go back, covered in blood, one big happy family!"

He thinks that he'll be able to save them, in the very least.

>>4210561
The point is, if she can only see what we see she wouldnt have any place to take this information from, as the court of illusions isnt in the ''work of fiction''.

Interrupting discussion here.

Does anyone have a vector of the one winged eagle?

>>4210574
he was wrong either way, to solve Rokkenjima mystery he had to understand Beato, and when he understood, he realized, finally, that he was in love with her
what he was doing in ep4 wouldn't have actually done anything, if he kept that attitude, only an endless recursion of games were waiting for him

>>4210555
motivation =/= goal
If Beato ends up being a God Tier troll, she might just do:
"<GOOD JOB>, you found out the truth! Now die, just like the rest of your family!"
DEEN would be proud.

>>4210574
Battler realized the truth and he also realized the motive of the culprit of course.

Which mean (at least that's what I think) that he realized that Shannon aka Beatrice did this for love, she is just a very sad crazy girl who really thought that she could use magic and be with him forever in the Golden Land.

Battler being an emotional type of guy couldn't hate her anymore and decided to protect this secret motive from the people who wanted to expose it to the world without shame.

>>4210500
Isn't Ange fucked from the start,though? I doubt that if he revealed the truth, it would cause her to fall in a even more dangerous situation.


The whole thing about Ange is shitty writing,though. She is probably the wealthiest bitch in Japan and yet she can't even buy protection from some decadent noble family.

>>4210588
So nothing can happen offscreen in any story?
Things can happen off-screen if she expose what she did (if it was important) herself later

>>4210612
And, what, the letters were just a way to ditch emotional baggage of her crimes?
Makes sense. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rage like a bitch.

>>4210604
I would pay for ryu to put a triple option in his last umineko VN
-good end
-true end
-end for DEEN to animate so it's OK with their adaptation AKA Battler kills the bad witch Beato, who is also his mother and bangs the female lead, Jessica

It would be funny if eva lowered the gun, picked battler by the hand, saved jessica and took the blame so that they both could run elsewhere.

>>4210625
No.

>>4210616
because those decadent noble families are also aiming for her fortune
like you said, she's the wealthiest girl in Japan, but she's young and easy to kill, which makes everyone wanting to get her money

>>4210622
>and bangs the female lead, Jessica
Why is that not the True end, shit is so cash.

>>4210625
Amakusa = Battler
and Jessica is his blind moe waifu.

Genius

>>4210646
bangs in the figurative way
>sex scene
>Ryu drawings
just that
It's that DEEN still believes that jessica is the main heroine

>>4210657
Well, Ryukishi supposedly supervised the animu, maybe she has a prominent role because she's the culprit.

Kind of a "Look who was in front of you the whole time! Ahahaha, god this story is awful."

>>4210622
>Good end
No idea what happens here for the pieces, but Meta-Battler and Meta-Beato end up living ~happily ever after~, telling AuAu, Lambda and Bern to fuck off if they aren't already dead.

>True end
Pieces end up finding the culprit and most of the family doesn't end up killed, but they all end up exploding anyways, like in Higurashi when everyone figured out that NAKAMA NAKAMA NAKAMA solved everything, but they all got owned by Takano & Co. anyways. Meta-world goes to shit, Battler doesn't want to put Beato through 1000 years of rape or some shit like that, or he just says "Fuck this witch shit." Ends up wandering around being a ronery depressed magical hobo.

>DEEN end
Battler fucks everyone in horrible QUALITY animation, and then he's the demons or a goat or something. Dlanor shows up for roughly six seconds, but is deprived of all loliness and has a horrible voice.

>>4210670
you did watched right?
Now it becomes clear why he made that ep6, he wasn't depressed because of BT's death, he was depressed because of the anime, now it all makes sense

>>4210676
>Dlanor is deprived of all loliness and has a horrible voice
dlanoronsteroids.jpg

Isn't Amakusa what Battler wants to be?He wants to be strong for some reasons so he already build up his body when in highschool by eating steroid and exercise.Whats the motive?Shkannon or pony theory.

>>4210646
Fuck yeah, Moon-chan end is awesome.

But you morons who think we are predestined to a BAD end throw away everything.

Rosa will never patch things up with Maria.
Rudolf will never be close to Battler. Kyrie will never know who her son is.
George and Shannon will never know the happiness of marriage.
Jessica and Kanon will never get to appreciate each other.
Gohda's life will be pointless, Nanjo will never see his family, Kumasawa will never talk to her grandchildren, Genji will never know contentness, Eva will die a bitter old woman, Hideyoshi will never see success, Natsuhi will never see her daughter succeed, Krauss will never see his family content.

Love is dead. Hope is dead. The reason for living is dead.

>>4210676
I stated that deen end=Jessica end
also probably true end would be Battler accepting DID meido/Jessica as Beato, while good is just destroying Rokkenjima and just travel together

>>4210688
R07 said it wouldn't be the same kind of ending as Higurashi, he also said it would be bittersweet.

>>4210695
I just hope he doesn't kill off beato, whoever she is, liek Miotsukushi hen's Hanyuu

>>4210676
>True end
>Hopelessly depressing
You people are fucking masochists.

>>4210695
I'm thinking this translates to either Meta = "bitter," pieces = "sweet," or vice-versa. I don't think Ryu would make everything only slightly bittersweet in general. It's one or the other that's ending well, and one or the other that's going down the shitter.

>>4210695
There is a large difference between bittersweet, and "Fuck I want to kill myself."

It alarms me that you do not seem to realize the gap.

>>4210695
He never said it would be bittersweet. He said it wouldn't HAVE to be like Higurashi. Read the interviews you cite yourself.

And this ending is not bittersweet. It's downright depressing.

>>4210688
Give this man a Pulitzer.
And a Crystal Sphere of the Millenium too.
Nostradamus beat you to it in the second millenium

>>4210702
not really, true end is just Battler happy with his DID meido and meta-battler being a ronery hobbo that browses 4chan

>>4210639
This makes no sense, Ange is MORE powerful than Kasumi, why should she run from her? This has nothing to do with being young or weak, the only thing that matters is who can buy more pawns.

>>4210713
Bitter = what happened on the island happened.
Sweet = Ange finally gets her brother back, maybe some kind of reunion with Beatrice in the real world where she is in some psychiatric hospital.

>>4210726
because after all she's her aunt, she hates her, but she doesn't want to kill her, also she really can't buy pawns, suspecing they're already bought

>>4210722
>Pieces end up finding the culprit and most of the family doesn't end up killed
Good so far.
>but they all end up exploding anyways
Oh. Nevermind.

And there was nothing there about Battler boning Jessica/Shannon. Shit was just depressing death.

>>4210726
What are the three sources of power?
Wealth = Ange
Influence = Kasumi
Force = Both have thugs.
They're on equal footing, brah. Since Kasumi went on a tactical offensive, Ange's current choice is to go defensively or evasively at the moment.
Contradicting this statement shows your bad tactical analysis.

>>4210688
Oh god, I love you. I'm saving this for copy-pasta, minus the Moon-chan stuff.
Fictionfags have no love.

Is writefag still writing that Battler/Ordeze fic? ;-;

>>4210734
That may be bittersweet to Ange, but to us, the readers, killing off the majority of the main cast, is not bittersweet. It's I WANT TO KILL MYSELF GOD THERE IS NO HOPE, OH NO NOT THE LITTLE GIRL AND HER MOTHER TOO WHAT SHE WANTED TO MAKE UP WITH HER DAUGHTER WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

>>4210747
you didn't count emorional factor and Ange's psyche, she had turned 18, her top priority right then was finding the truth about Rokkenjima, not being safe.
This makes having many guards unconfortable because they will be travelling a lot, so the force part is out, also Kasumi is quite wealthy either way, so she also has wealth
Ange's position was initially a bad one, which went worse because she wanted to go to Rokkenjima and put that as top priority over herself

Here's my take on the bittersweet shit.

Half of (piece, of course) Battler's family or more ends up murdered. He probably figures out who the culprit is, and uses the whole LOOOVE message that Ryu's been shoving in our face to stop making the culprit, i.e. Shkannon, stop being crazy. She regains her sanity for long enough to tell them how to get off the island, and either she goes with them and checks into a mental hospital immediately, or she stays on the island and Battler BAWWWs as he leaves, seeing her smiling and waving goodbye to him or some shit like that. He realizes his promise and that she loved him and all that crap, but he goes home and sees Ange and lives the rest of his life out in normalfag fashion, for the most part.

Meanwhile, at the Metaworld, Battler either is totally fine with this and chills with Beato for the rest of their lolmagic lives, or he'll rage because lots of his family died. He'll storm out or something, and once he realizes that his shitfit was retarded, he'll either go back to Beatrice and play out the first option for this, or she'll have an hero'd or something. Oooor AuAu or Bern or Lambda fuck everything up and the Metaworld just completely exploded and dies.

>>4210749
You really should leave the Moon-chan stuff in. She's only the best culprit ever.
But yes, anyone who thinks that everyone on the island is dead and not coming back would somehow make for a bittersweet end is retarded.

I hate how everyone thinks that things on the fantasy side are supposed to "personify" something. They're just there, stop reading into it.

Also, Shkannon is idiotic.

>>4210776
Ryukishi...?

Is that you?

It seems shit enough to be you.

>>4210771
You're helping defend my point against.
>>4210726
Yes, Ange is emo ATM. And due to having almost no influence on a city, regardless of force or wealth, is usually indicative of being cautious and evasive.
Now, if Kasumi was aiming at Eva, that would've been another ticket.
She would have made it so that she would've been gangraped by fat turds.

>>4210777
I find it strange that I agree with you, Jessicafag.
But yes, this Meta-shit needs to stop. Have Meta-Battler do whatever he wants with Meta-Beato, that's fine. But kill off the main cast? Have that miserable future Ange lives in be the only future? Fuck that noise!

>>4210761
Alright, tell me even one way it could end in any other way.

Rolling the dice till a miracle happens?
Bern said it was impossible in episode 1.

Battelr somehow giving some memories to his piece and making him save everyone?
Don't you think he would have done it a long time ago if he could, he is the GM now.

ITT Proof Ryu07 is a successful troll.

Obvious bittersweet ending:

Battler sucessfully solves the murder case before anyone die, shkanontrice/jessitrice get a hold of herself and if she's not the real mastermind, the real mastermind comes out in plain sight and is defeated (someone can die at this moment).

Meanwhile in meta world as the illusion of the witch is destroyed meta battler bides farewell to his love, beatrice, looks up into the sea of kakeras and disappears.

>>4210804
Rolling a die and expecting a miracle? Certainly not an option.
Learning the truth, and causing a miracle?
Certainly is an option.

They are not passive observers, testing their theories. What they do has a real impact on the game board. Bern controlled her piece, and I am confident Battler will be able to control his.

>>4210793
You just are retarded.
Featherine (her real self anyways) did say that the meta-world really happen in some way.
Therefore it means something.
Trying to understand what this mean is part of the mystery.

Inb4 Kyrie was culprit all along, working against the ushiromiya family for her original family.

>>4210776
>>4210823
you call this bittersweet.HOLY CRAP.I DONT WANT TO KNOW WHAT BAD END IS LIKE.

>>4210804
In b4 he doesnt want to destroy beatrice yet

>>4210832
Yeah, it happened. It's not allegory or some kind of metaphor. It just happened.

>>4210826
Bern could control her piece because it was a literal mary sue, she was a blank piece that could become whatever Bern wanted.

>>4210843
Everyone knows he loves Beatrice, but he WILL reveal her mystery. Only to her, though. Not to anyone else.

Oh, and as for killing, seems like we've forgotten that red text.

>>4210846
Second part of your line is just your opinion though.
Yeah it did happen, but in what shape we don't know.

>>4210793

>I hate how everyone thinks that things on the fantasy side are supposed to "personify" something. They're just there, stop reading into it.

Agree

>Also, Shkannon is idiotic.

So is assuming Jessica or Kyrie as the culprit. At least it's possible with Shkannon.

>>4210871
Well, if Shkanon is true, then Jessica is involved. Although do be aware that Beatrice doesn't have to be the culprit.

>>4210753
I'm debating whether or not I should. I mean, I still like the idea of it and I have some of it planned out, but fuck, man, the whole loss of everything we thought about Verochia Dragoon Story has kind of made me not too pleased about the whole thing. No motivation now that EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE MY MIND IS FULL OF FUCK.

But Ordeze is still moe~. I don't know whether it should involve rape or consensual sorcerer/SPESS MEHREN fucking, though.

Shkanon + Jessitrice > Shkanontrice
Nuff said

>>4210900
CAN I GET A BROFIST, BRO?

What if the sorcerer in Verochia Dragoon Story is actually Kinzo?Why people keep saying it was Battler

>>4210914
>>4210900
Too bad Jessitrice is impossible.

>>4210880

I have a hard time believing that "Beatrice" is not responsible for all of the murders, nor being the mastermind. Ryukishi would probably think it's a great twist if Beatrice actually exists in some fashion beyond the portrait and epitaph.

>>4210899
I understand, bro. I hope you'll decide to finish it, though.

>I don't know whether it should involve rape or consensual sorcerer/SPESS MEHREN fucking, though.

Consensual would be cool. Or, as an alternative, the typical rape-but-she-enjoys-it-halfway-through.

How would somebody describe the Meta-world, though?

>>4210927
There is no sorcerer.

>>4210931
Teehee, silly Battler, one Beatrice seen seconds before a giant bomb goes off does not negate the fact that Jessica is the only one close enough to have dressed up as Beato in episode 4!

>>4210927
NO SORCERER NO SORCERER NO SORCERER NO SORCERER NO SORCERER FUCK.

>>4210943
Internet forum.
Would explain all the trolling.
Seriously Featherine does say that she posts the stories on internet in episode 6.

>>4210951
I'm all for Jessitrice, if only because the two characters more bland than Jessica are Shannon and Kanon.

.>>4210943

Meta-world can do whatever the fuck it wants, I just want the mystery solved.

>>4210942
Oh, I'll probably finish it, but it might be finished a little later than what would be preferred.

I'm sure something will come along to refresh my want for a hobo end, and I'll want to write about hobo Battler fucking not-Beato and bawwing about it, even if the characters and the plot and everything is all based on total lies.

>>4210973
Ah, Jessitricefags, it's nice to see you keep hope in Moon-chan. Really, it's kinda cute.

>>4210977
Alright, take your time. Thanks.

>>4211007
I thought us Jessitricefriends were cool with you Moonbros....
Come on, don't we stand together against the tyranny that is the DID meido?

>>4210976
This, I never cared much for the meta world from the start, even less with the turn EP6 took.

At this point, let's just get this shit over with, it's overstayed its welcome with how convoluted and half-assed the story has become.

Doesn't help with people seriously pushing this IT'S ALL FICTION sophistry, would you really want that kind of ending?

Rosa and Maria are the culprits.

/thread

>>4211007
I prefer Jessitrice, on the grounds that the person pretending to be Beatrice is likely the one who loves Battler, and Shannon seems to sincerely love fat George, so Shkannontrice = normalfag end for Battler, and he's been through enough shit as it is.

>>4211151
>I never cared much for the main plot of the VN from the start
Why are you still reading?

Oh hey guys, just being a part of the story canon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krhdWBrULA4&feature=related

Oh well it was nice thread, I even managed to think of some new things on the spot.
The Bern being the personification of "detective" and Lambda being "murder" was pretty well found out I thought.
The more I think about it, the more it make sense.
Like the letter where she talks about the ones she gave power to.
Like the one girl who wanted to become a God, if it was Takano well she used MURDER to do that
Or the girl who wanted to become a witch, Beatrice also use murder to become one, to complete her "revival".

Also the game against Bern and Lambda, if it was Higurashi it would also explain everything.
Lambda's power is to kill with almost certainty, well she is murder personified so it's normal.
But Rika who had the detective authority managed to avoid being killed in the last game and therefore defeated Lambda.

Also Higurashi exist as a fiction in Umineko, see episode 1.
Perhaps it was Featherine who wrote it, that would explain her ties with Bern.

>>4211176
What the fuck are you smoking, the main overarching plot for EP1, to the end of EP4 was to solve the mystery, defeat the witch. Meta world was just a convenient plot device for the repeating worlds concept, please explain to me how that is the main plot, I am waiting with bated breath.

After reading through half the story, it's not like I can just quit reading, I invested way too much goddamn time, for better or for worse, I'm seeing this clusterfuck through to the end.

>>4211183
sure is culprit around here

>>4211212
>the main overarching plot for EP1, to the end of EP4 was to solve the mystery
You didn't even READ Umineko, did you?

>>4211151
Some people are of the opinion that a BAD end makes the series DEEPER.

It's an all too common mindset, for example, I watched an excellent film this past weekend, called a single man. It had the main character needlessly have something unfortunate to him at the end, and although it clearly attempted to be deep, it came off as weak and left a bad taste in the mouth.

So too would an end in which everyone except Eva, and potentially Battler died. After the horrific things this mostly undeserving family experiences, to have them die in vain would ruin the series.

>>4211221
Without using your derp vision hindsight goggles, share with us what the plot was for 1-4.

Remember, without the bullshit hindsight.

>>4211246
Since the end of episode one, the plot has always been about Beatrice's game. I thought that was obvious. The mystery was just a part of the game.

>>4211253
You must be the guy who thinks the entire story thus far is a fiction novel within a fiction novel.

You're telling me at the end of Episode 1, you thought the main plot was her game, rather than discovering the truth behind the murders? Really now.

>>4211253
The plot is not exclusively meta, nor the future, nor the game board. It's a mix of the three. We shouldn't focus on one any more than the other. Remember, belittling the pieces is what we SHOULDN'T do.

>>4211151
>>Doesn't help with people seriously pushing this IT'S ALL FICTION sophistry, would you really want that kind of ending?

Main fiction theorist there, it's not about what I want, it's about what I think the story is about.
Am I satisfied with this and Umineko's story in general?
Not, really, I find the narrative quite weak, that everything is far too much noise for nothing much at all.
I also don't like the fiction bullshit.

But whether I like it or not doesn't change anything, I'm just stating what I think is going on after reading this story.
Though if anything crushing the delusions of the retarded fans and shippers is pretty satisfying.
Doing it with ShKanontrice was fun, looks like the fiction thing isn't as well accepted though.

>>4211307
Sounding kinda like an intellectual rapist, there.
But it'll all fall down, soon enough.