/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Wait until you get to the part where they start talking about the trust between reader and writer. That shit is even worse.

>>4199842
He wants your love.

Can't wait till he will reveal that the meido with DID did everything.
Such a brilliant twist, R07 is the best writer ever.

>>4199942
That sounds serious

>>4199942

I'm sure he'll pull something much more spectacular

>>4199977
Like brain parasites?

>>4199987

GOLDEN brain parasites

>>4199942

Kinzo = Battler ending. There will be timemindfucks in EP8.

>>4200068
Actually it will be a MEIDO WITH DID + EPISODE 1-7 WERE FICTIONS ALL ALONG + AMAKUSA IS BATTLER end.
No time jumping shit, not even parallel worlds shit.

>>4200068

That couldn't be. It's been said in red that Battler is Kinzo's grandson.

At the last moment of the last tea party there will be nothing but a black screen and ahaha.wav playing on loop.

>>4200118
Remember Dave Lister?

>>4200068
I like the direction where this is going. Much better than those shkannontriece theories.

>>4200118
Do you really trust RED that much? It has been proven by Ange that the supposedly allmighty RED can be disproven. *cough* Sakutaro *cough*

>>4200153

Are you talking about the end of episode 4? 'cause she didn't disprove anything.

>>4200153
That means but one thing: Red applies to the game board only. It can't cover interferences from outside like the Sakutaro doll, save statements like "right now nothing outside the island can interfere"

It's like R07 is competing with ZUN to see who can make a larger cast.

>>4200176
...who's winning?

>>4200173

I don't think statements like the one in >>4200118
are related to the game board.

>>4200182
ZUN has a head start, but good lord is R07 fast. Does ZUN even bring out a new Touhou every comiket? R07 gets us a new episode, and with it, up to 8 new characters.

EP1: baseline of 20 characters: the people on the island, Beato and Bern.
EP2: 34 (and piece Beato, but she doesn't count), seven fucking stakes
EP3: Lia, Ronove, two Siestas, Ange.
EP4: Gaap, one (arguably two) Siestas, Amakusa and some other fuckers from the future, but they're not that important.
EP5: Erika, Dlanor, two other Eiserne Jungfrau bitches.
EP6: Auau, Zepar, Furfur.

That's at least three new characters per episode, with an average of just over five new characters per episode.

>>4200221
>>4200153
Even after thinking about it objectively, there is still a huge lump of confusing and almost contradicting red in E5 I can't get out of my head.
Of course there are word games in the game and statements that are not lies in essence (All members of the conference recognized Kinzo!), but Dlanor says things in red like "until now you were the detective and you can't prove otherwise", which is clearly false.

>>4200118

There are two Battlers. And don't forget "Kinzo is passed on as the head's name" has not been denied in red.

>>4200235
There are more new characters in E6, so it's "at least four"

>>4200261

That doesn't mean much. Battler can't be his own grandfather. Besides I don't know if piece-Battler can be considered a proper Battler, since he stops "existing" after each game.

>>4200255
How is that false? For all the 'love the writer' crap R07 has, it would be pretty stupid to pull a 180 and have the only reliable source of information be a liar as well.

>>4200262
Who did I miss? Piece Auau?

>>4200118
So? He could be his own grandson. Getting some predetermined time paradoxes up in this motherfucker. After all, I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

I still find it odd that people are pissed/disturbed/disappointed at the whole "metafiction" angle the series is taking with the addition of AuAu. Seriously. That shit's already been telegraphed to hell and back at this point. Go and reread Anti-mystery vs Anti-fantasy as well.

>>4200369

The whole Meta Battler situation is just a metaphor for Kinzo's backstory. A parallel event. Also just because it's a metaphor and symbolizes something doesn't mean it didn't happen, as is standard Meta World procedure.

>>4200399
The problem is not just the direction, it's about it being implemented badly(as in 'It's shit').

>>4200399
I personally thought about the metafiction thing since episode 2.
And this theory only got stronger with all the colored text, terms like GAME MASTER and others.

I don't think this is disappointing, ShKanontrice is though.

>>4200406

Ah. Well, can't argue with that. I still think the ideas he's using are interesting enough for me to ignore that fault, but that's just subjectivity talking.

>>4200416
I'm sure most people picked it up because of interesting setting and characters and try to stick with it, and the more shitty the writing gets, readers get filtered.
I personally stopped 4 hours in episode 5, I just got tired.The good/bad ratio was fucked up for me.
Each to his own taste and fortitude.

Out of curiosity, are there any other novels besides Christie's, "And Then There Were None", worth looking into when following Umineko?

>>4200427
Personally I play every new games of Umineko for the same reason I play the Touhou games.
That is for the cute girls with frills, and to understand all the fanworks that will get released about them.
And also for the new soundtrack of course.

Everything else, I got tired of a long time ago.

>>4200444
Quite the noble purpose.

>>4200406

Personally, I don't think the writing has gotten any worse. Episode 1 wasted who knows how much time with pointless introductions. Episode 2... Suddenly you've got a fantasy scene, but Meta Battler doesn't react to it at all? And afterwards I read about how Ryukishi was surprised that people were complaining about that?

Really, the explanation given about the magical scenes in Episode 3 should have been in 2.

Episode 2 also introduced 7 characters with really stupid outfits who were just sidelined afterwards, and the following episodes continued doing the same.

>>4200444

You seriously don't care how it ends?

I hope it ends with Mr. Delicious solving the case.

>>4200473
I already pretty much can see how it's going to end.
Seriously, it's not hard to understand the story Ryuukishi is trying to tell, and if you can do that then it's easy to see how it's going to end.

One more reason why it's disappointing, Umineko is actually fairly simple, but Ryuukishi "forced" a very dragged out story by obscuring large portions of the narrative.

Obscuring the story like this, I personally don't think it's a bad thing, but the problem is what you are obscuring.
Basically it's like he gave us puzzle, drawn on most of the pieces so that you couldn't make it back yourself and gave you hints to where each pieces goes in in every episodes.

That's fun and all but what if the puzzle finally completed is a shitty and very simple picture?

Oh well more frills for me, so I don't really care that much.

>>4200473

Ryukishi already stated that the ending would be left open to interpretation, rather than having a solid conclusion, like Higurashi.

aka - batshit insane fan theories will run rampant, and I don't feel like sitting through all of the episodes again or reading through a dozen more Shkannon, Pony, BOMB theories.

>>4200497
>Ryukishi already stated that the ending would be left open to interpretation
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>4200497

No, he didnt.

>>4200497
Wait, where did Ryu say that?

So did the writing get shitty because BT died, or did BT die cause he tried to read and understand this mess?

>>4200492
!Nipaa, you watch gg? I'm fucking disappointed.

>>4200533
It was always shit.
But in the early episode, there was the promise of BRICKS coming in the future episodes so people deluded themselves into thinking it was good.

>>4200533
BT died and Umineko is a magic ritual to allow Ryukishi to revive him. He will murder all his readers with ridiculously convoluted plots to do so.

>>4200544
I will be disappointed if there won't be BRICKS at the same level as Coco in the last episode.

what are you talking about guys ryukishi is an excellent writer

tabacco nut magic seals

>>4200442

The Poisoned Chocolates Case by Anthony Berkeley. A mystery club sits down and talks about a murder case and they each offer their own solution, of course at the end, there's a final solution that blows theirs out of the water. Anything by Agatha Christie since she tends to play fair and supply you with clues, for a given value of "playing fair" of course. The Three Coffins/Hollow Man by John Dickson Carr if you liked locked room mysteries. He's said to be the master of those.

Probably something by Japanese mystery authors as well since Ryukishi probably took inspiration from those, didn't he name drop some in EP5?

For all its faults, at least Umineko taught me that reading mystery novels is fun.

>>4200648

>The Three Coffins/Hollow Man by John Dickson Carr if you liked locked room mysteries. He's said to be the master of those.

Do you happen to know the solution to the murders in that book?

It's driving my friend nuts and he can't find the book anywhere.

>>4200648
'You read this shit' Go read a proper mystery and enjoy it'

>>4200579

I really want to re-read Umineko and try to pick up on clues this time, but I don't think I have enough time on my hands to do that.

I bet it'll end with witches and magic actually existing.

Sure is people saying Umineko is bad based on things they think will happen in here

>>4200925
It's already bad.

>>4200925
Ep 5 was bad, man.
Well except the ???

>>4200929
seems great to me

>>4200937
>ep 5 was bad
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>4200939
There is no accounting for taste.
Still, it's poop/

>>4200925

Ryukishi had a decent story by Episode 4. If anything, he only needed 2 more Episodes to tie up all the loose ends. Instead, he introduced even more bullshit (only 16 people, requiring DID maid, which wasn't even recognized as a mental disorder at that time let alone the fact that DID doesn't work the way R07 depicts it) to make the grand reveal seem even more amazing, except all we will get is a convoluted and ridiculous (int the bad sense of the word) ending.

>>4200925
Episode 4, 5 and 6 were bad.
Bare a few scenes.

>>4200944
Scene was stupid, as always with every argumentative battles in Umineko.
It was only amazing in the same way as looking at 2 retards fighting is amazing.

Umineko turned to shit when it started to focus on "LET'S HAVE LOTS OF SEMANTIC BATTLES ABOUT IDIOTIC SHITS"

>>4200989
wow, you have awful taste

>>4200442
the murder of roger ackroyd is another good one, Bern mentions it in the Episode 5 ????

Also I think that people assume that Shkannon == DID when it doesn't really have to.

For example, in Episode 5 we see Natsuhi and the servants pretending like Kinzo is alive, so he shows up in scenes with them as the narrator. Thus, for Shannon and Kanon to be separate people, they DON'T have to necessarily be personalities, but just have everyone treating them as separate people. So basically Shkannon is a big ruse set up by Shkannon and the other family members, and for some reason they want to keep it from some or all of the other family members, including Battler.

It could even mirror the Kinzo situation further; maybe Kanon died before the game's start, and the rest of the family wanted to cover up his death?

See, there are still solutions that don't require mental illness.

Umineko is Phoenix Wright and Touhou's retarded child who grew up to be a pretentious asshole. Prove me wrong.

>>4201001
Umineko and Touhou are not organisms and therefore cannot produce offspring.

>>4201001
gob2 /a/, since you use pretentious without knowing the meaning

>>4200999

The problem with your argument lies in the fact that the detective actually sees two people called Shannon and Kanon (regardless of the whole personality issue), whereas with Kinzo we know he's dead and nothing more than a lie to keep the family inheritance issue from starting.

>>4201009
If you want to see an example of pretentious just look at the fucking OP pic, with Ryu calling his work a fucking historical achievement. That fits the definition of pretentious perfectly, you fuckwit.

>>4201017
When does Battler see Shannon and Kanon as separate people in Episode 1-4.

Remember that EP5 doesn't count because of the "trap".


Furthermore in Episode 2, the Red "Kanon was killed in this room (Jessica's room IIRC)" was uttered. As we've seen in the past, one of the main loopholes in the red is time. Kanon was killed in Jessica's room sometime before the game started -- maybe even by Jessica herself (she is suspicious, isn't she?) and Krauss and Natsuhi decide to cover up his death in order to protect their daughter.

>>4201009
. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
Fits Umineko perfectly, you fucking moron. You go back to /a/

>>4201009
You're a dumbass.

>>4201029
Because everything an author's character says is representative of their opinion, right?

>>4201029
What's it like having no sense of tone or intent and just reading everything literally?

>>4201071
No, but all the "love between the author and reader" and "nature of truth" conversations definitely are. Did you even fucking read it?

>>4201076
Read what?

>>4201073
What's it like being completely unable to read between the lines and see the authors intent? If you can't see Ryu's delusions of grandeur at this point you're either retarded or blind

>>4200648
Sorry for the late reply. Greatly appreciate the list; I'll check them out.

>>4201088
The fucking VNs. Or were you too busy fapping over the hideous artwork to notice all the bullshit philosophical discussions Ryu tries to cram into it so people will go OMG SO DEEP.

>>4201106
That's a serious conspiracy theory, continue please

>>4200999
No, it's fairly clear at this point that if Shkanon is true, Shannon and Kanon consider each other to be distinct individuals, and in fact are in conflict with each other.

People sure are frustrated in this thread.

>>4201106
It's really fun watching you get angry over nothing. Notice how my responses have no actual relation to Umineko. I don't actually give a shit about how "deep" Umineko may or may not be.
But clearly, you do.
Trying to convince people that something is pretentious just shows how pretentious you are.
"Hey, it's not fucking deep people, how can you have such an inferior opinion to ME?"
You've gotten angry that people think highly of something you do not, and I've given you nothing but canned responses that take no effort on my part.
This my friends, is trolling.

>>4201133
In other words,
'u mad?'

>>4201133

Yeah, I have an opinion. So what? You're the one wasting time arguing about something you don't even read. If anything, you're the one who took my bait. Idiot.

>>4201106
You know, Nasu crams just as much philosophy into his works, if not more, but I rarely see people complain about that. On the other hand, I'm relatively new to /jp/ compared to some, so I may have missed people complaining years ago...

>>4201138

>>4201147
I won't deny Nasu is shit too. So yeah.

>>4201146

>>4201133
Translated out of pretentious idiot trying to save face: "LOL I TROLL U!"

>>4201147
But there's no fucking philosophy in FSN! When you say "philosophy" what are actually talking about?

>>4201146
How am I the one wasting time?
I enjoyed getting responses out of you for nothing.

>>4201158
>pretentious
There you go misusing that word.

>>4201147
It's really, really not the same thing.

>>4201170
You're pretentious because you're trying to act like some kind of master troll when really you're just falling back on pretending to be a troll because you don't have an argument.
. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
Fits you perfectly, pal.

Man, this thread is just like when I was listening to Heroin on Youtube and one of the commenters said the Velvet Underground was a shitty band.

>>4201188
> Reads youtube comments
Also Velvet Underground and Umineko are both shit, sorry to break it to you.

>>4201181
I know I don't have an argument. That's the point.
And yet you still reply.

>>4201170
>>4201181
ITT people thinking they are trolling each other while in the reality they are having fun

People who waste their time trying to prove to someone something is shit always amuses me.

They deserve to be trolled if they're not the ones doing the trolling themselves.

>>4201196
It's not trolling if at least one party is not having fun.
If all parties are having fun, then it's all good.

>>4201192
>implying this thread isn't worse than youtube comments.

>>4201206
If it's so bad, then stop bumping it.

>>4201213
>implying I can't bump the thread to annoy you and then hide it.

>>4201227
Nothing annoys me anymore.

>>4201206
>>4201227
>Implying

Even if you're trolling, this needs to stop.

>>4201159
The treatment of Shirou's ideal in the various routes, for one thing. I don't have the game available to me at the moment, so I can't find any good examples of other philosophical mentions in F/sn.

There's also the fact that F/sn was intended as an action/adventure VN, so it wouldn't really have as much obvious philosophy as Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai.

Kinzo is lame.

>>4201370

No sir, YOU are lame

>>4201370
Kinzo is actually OHDESIRE

What do you dislike about ep5? I think it was good. I don't mind about the introduction of some new characters, besides, we got many new clues, and the story itself was awesome.

>>4201349
You do not understand what philosophy is.

Secondly, these are presented through the characters and events, so even if a bit overbearing, they do not feel out of place.

>>4201444

I'm playing it now and it's kinda subpar when compared to the previous episodes..

>>4201981
It has it's awesome moments, especially that finale. But for the most part EP5 is about giving more hints and clues to the mystery.

For me EP5 was the shortest episode.
Not because of lenght, but because i readed all of it in one day without blinking.

>>4202037

I agree with you that EP5 felt the shortest. However, I feel that this is because we didn't have to deal with repeating all of the events up dinner on the first night, along with far fewer flashbacks (which I mainly ctrl through to avoid the brow beating of THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD THINK).

>>4201148
/r/ video of that scene

>>4202083
you skip Natsuhi's flashabks?

>>4202083

Why would you do that

ITT: Only English media may be referred to as objectively good work because, despite our attachment and enjoyment related to it, we cannot escape our preconceived idea that English speaking society thinks it is unacceptable.

No need to lie to yourselves /jp/,
There are no bullies here

>>4203168
Why of course! Every good Englishman knows that the Nipponese are uncouth barbarians, and couldn't possibly create a work of literature that could even possibly rival a good novel written by an Englishman, eh wot wot.

And I thought this place was better than /a/...