/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>4169240
i don't get it

What exactly is this foreshadowing? Please forgive my ignorance.

Including Battler and Ange having sex?

>>4169259
>>4169261
Natsuhi's and Moetrice's duel in ep 6.

everyone's a culprit the end

Only person who could have killed Natsuhi is ShKanontrice.

>>4169271

More like EP1?

>>4169271
And there's this, too. Keep Erika in mind when you read it.

Even Hideyoshi's fascination with the Warring States period.

this.

Note how she gives a reasonable explanation to Battler as to why Kinzo won't be going to dinner, while still indicating to him that she interacts with Kinzo regularly.
Fuck, she even has the balls to say that he is doing the "same as last year".

>>4169370
Battler better be careful then. If all of his aunts want to have sex with him, and his step-mom, and all of the cousins, someone could hurt someone or make them cry and he would never notice!

>>4169425
Wait...so who DOESN'T want Battler's cock then?

>>4169425
Step-mom?
I think you mean his mom.

>>4169439
Only one of the servents does not want it, but I wont tell who. Kihihihi!

>>4169445
go back to bed maria

b0mb and love.

>>4169491
love?

>>4169240
Yep, and thats why Umineko is Fantasy. Read this: http://witch-hunt.com/hist.html
Specially this part:

No matter what kinds of strange events occur, all of you will try to explain it with humans and tricks,
and deny all mysteries, as the worst kind of human supremacists.

Please, try to explain each one of the many baffling cases with humans and tricks as best you can.


I want to see how far I can penetrate everyone's human supremacy.


The culprit is a witch. All alibis and tricks are magic.

This is not a mystery, but fantasy!


I want to see you surrender and say that while crying bitter tears.


I do not expect a line of reasoning leading to the truth to appear.

I want to find out just how many people can deny the witch until the very end and maintain a 'human
culprit theory'.

>>4169533
Regardless of mystery and fantasy, the story has become convoluted shit.
The seagulls cry, the reader cry, BT died from trying to make fucking sense.

>>4169546
>BT died from trying to make fucking sense.

I hate you for making me laugh with this

>>4169412
> Am I not truly the embodiment of your ideal
;_;

>>4169377
> Which would mean, incidentally, that he'd never come out of his study. Heheheh!
Fuck you, Moon-chan.

>>4169574
Forgot my pic.

>>4169533

This is the best example of that philosophy.

He's about to make my brain shut down, or make me change my base assumptions and accept a really shitty answer.

>>4169580
What's with the red and blue?

>>4169588

Red means it's sealed by Erika.

>>4169574
>Moon-chan
What does this nickname even mean?

>>4169598
>>4169577

>>4169580
I forget exactly how the closed room in EP6 worked. Why is Shkannon the only way to solve it again? What was the red given?

>>4169605
Sorry, still not seeing the significance.

>>4169623
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_%28Tarot_card%29
* Lack of clarity ----- Tension ----- Doubt ----- Fantasy

* Deception ----- Psychological conflict ----- Obscured vision

* Confusion ----- Illusion ----- Fear ----- Imagination ----- Worry

* Romanticism ----- Anxiety ----- Apprehension ----- Unrealistic ideas

More foreshadowing?

I guess this one isn't really foreshadowing as much as it is a "So that's what happened to it".

So where'd that tarot card come from? Something to do with the actual game, or some anime-related thing?

>>4169608
Well, it's a combination of a lot of individual situations.

Some things, like getting out of the guesthouse, are easy enough if Kanon is somehow a member of the Kumasawa family... but then you have the red text stating that Kanon entered the room, stating that Kanon never left the room, and stating that Kanon isn't in the room. And then you have the red text from Battler and Beatrice stating "Including you, it's 17 people"/"there are 17 people". (They were speaking to Erika.)

And then, of course, you have the whole situation in the Meta World where Moetrice is repeatedly told that only one person can use the brooch to achieve the miracle of love, that only one can go from being furniture to being human, and that as furniture, their souls are "less" than that of humans. And on top of that, we have the monologue by the person who created Beatrice that states that s/he and Beatrice will "share" his/her soul. Also there's the fact that Shannon and Kanon sleep in the same bed, etc.

...Also, I just thought of something. You know how, in Episode 4 of the anime, DEEN made the dungeon cell really small, yet still had the conversation between Shannon and Kanon go unnoticed? If you think of it as a mental conversation, it starts making sense.

>>4169651
Immediately after first reading that part I was expecting an "OH NO MARIA'S ROSE IS GONE".

>>4169644
FUCCCCCCCCCCCCCKING MOON -CHAN!

>>4169655
they come with different merchandaising, anime DVDs and Drama CDs, but all approved by Ryu

>>4169655
They've come with anime-related merchandise, yes, but Frontier Works handles all the distribution and stuff that isn't actual anime production, so no DEEN at work there... and there's also the fact that, so far, the cards have matched up pretty damn well, with the possible exception of Justice Battler. If they make piece Battler the Fool, though, then their choices can be trusted.

>>4169655
Oh, those cards come with various Umineko releases and shit. Gotta catch em all, etc.

>>4169644

At least Shannon is honest about her used goods status.

>>4169651
The thing I don't get about that is the fact that Maria's rose was pretty sickly, and knowing Gohda's pride in his work, I just don't see him using a rose that wasn't in its prime.

>>4169674
Still, it's not at all unlikely that it could be less DEEP FORESHADOWING and more "we need to put someone as the Moon, and we need to use Jessica for something... let's draw Jessica sitting on a moon, BRILLIANT".

>>4169691
Well, tarot cards always have deeper meaning to them, but I'd be willing to agree with you, if not for that fact that the Moon means deception, and Jessica is suspicious BECAUSE OF ALL HER GODDAMN DECEPTION.

>>4169702
But wouldn't it be natural for her to be in on the "everyone in the mansion pretends Kinzo's alive" thing?

>>4169699
My memory is shit, what deception did she do other than the Kinzo-related stuff?

>>4169691

But Jessica has been blatantly shady. If you read Episode 5 and you didn't notice that she was the only one who lived in the mansion, but wasn't shown in the room with Kinzo's body and didn't think anything of it: shame on you. Another anon once mentioned her outburst near the end of Episode 3, too. She seemed almost intent on labeling Eva the killer without proof and did it almost immediately after seeing her break down because of her sons death.

>>4169689

Personally, I see him sending somebody else to get the roses. Then somebody who saw the scene in the rose garden took Maria's rose to have her stay outside long enough for them (or someone else) to give her the letter. I believe Kanon did it, considering he appeared almost immediately after Rosa got done being the best mother in the world in one of the episodes.

>>4169720

EP4.

There's something ridiculously odd about how she still insists that Grandfather was alive even though, he killed a whole bunch of people.

"Damn you Grandfather! I'll make you pay for killing mom!" Complete with tears and saying it right in front of everyone while talking to "Krauss" Combine that with her phone call as well.

>>4169720
The banana phone shenanigans to Battler in episode 4, calling Beatrice the culprit even after she stated she didn't believe that Beatrice was the culprit previously, randomly freaking out and accusing Eva, directly lying to Battler, and if Shkanon is to be believed, she is also lying about THAT.

>>4169730

Kanon's also a perfect candidate for the umbrella. Battler even noted how odd it is for him to come get them personally.

>>4169720
ep4 phone call

So for everyone who insists on Jessica being the culprit because she's shady (especially with regards to Kinzo), have you considered the possibility that Jessica does indeed know Kinzo is dead, but still insists on him being alive for the same reasons that Natsuhi and Krauss insist on Kinzo being alive?

>>4169659
That makes sense. The only thing that still bothers me is that Erika should have suspicions that Kanon and Shannon are the same person, but I feel like that's more a plot hole Ryukishi accidentally created when he was trying to be clever.

I can definitely buy Shkannon, it's just Shkannontrice I'm not so sure about. But then, Jessitrice makes no sense after what we learn in EP6, so I guess that's the only option.

>>4169758

Yes. But I don't have her as a culprit. Just an accomplice. However, Natsuhi was already dead in EP4. Why keep up the deception? It's odd, and I don't think Krauss's conspiracy explains it all.

>>4169758
Nah, not really. Krauss and Natsuhi THINK that she doesn't know, after all. And she does far more than just lie about Kinzo, she also lies to Battler about magic, and about a ton of other stuff.

If her deception were exclusive to Kinzo and we weren't told that Krauss and Natsuhi think that she doesn't know, then maybe, but right now we got too many things to ignore her sketchiness.

Even if Shkannon is true (which it probably is) I still don't think they're the mastermind. One of the culprits okay, but definietly not the mastermind. Shannon hardly obtained a high school education and Kanon only got as far as middle school.

>>4169758
Well, the issue is that she lies to Battler on the phone as well, in addition to framing Eva in episode three.
Actions more suitable to a culprit, rather than an accomplice.

>>4169768 The only thing that still bothers me is that Erika should have suspicions that Kanon and Shannon are the same person

The best explanation I've heard for that is Erika does indeed know that Shannon and Kanon are the same physical person, but recognizes the two personalities as two separate beings. However, regardless of how she perceives them, she isn't interested in using Shkannon as an explanation as it wasn't necessary for her point of making Natsuhi the culprit.

>>4169790
>Erika does indeed know that Shannon and Kanon are the same physical person, but recognizes the two personalities as two separate beings.

Why in the world would she do that. That makes no sense.

The true culprit.

>>4169789
How does she frame Eva? All she does is accuse her of being the culprit. This is the same girl who accused Maria of being a culprit as well in EP 1, despite the fact that Maria is clearly just a gullible kid.

I'm not too informed on Umineko but I'm assuming there are no such things as witchs. I may be wrong, witches may exist in some crazy twist of the game but the point is to disprove it.

But the Shkannon theory is saying shannon and kanon are the same person? That's just as absurd as a witch...

>>4169785
Agreed.

I also still think Kyrie is involved in the culprit plans somehow. She could have created the closed rooms and then got killed by the culprit early on (EP 1 and 2) because they decided she had no more use.

>>4169758

And she doesn't drop it when her mother is murdered and her father is "imprisoned"? Why keep it up to that degree? ("GRR I'M GONNA GET YOU GRANDAD") And then there's the whole fact that we never see her mention Kinzo's death. At all. We see every other resident show their knowledge of it in some way (i.e. Kanon + Shannon trying to prevent the adults from getting into the study; Only [possible] exception is Gohda, who was not needed in the plot to cover it up), but we never see Jessica acknowledge it. It's improbable for her to not know.

>>4169780

When were we told that?

>>4169812

Personally, I think this is all Kinzo's doing, it's just following instructions, after all easy enough. That's why the plans might be easily fucked up and hi-jacked by another culprit.

>>4169790
Pretty much. She only cared about implicating Natsuhi as the suspect, she wasn't interested in much else.

Well, except for taping up windows and stalking Battler in his sleep.

>>4169822
But that would mean the culprits are probably all servants, which I can't accept. An all servant theory is ridiculous - EP 1 pretty much makes it a red herring, because all the servants are suspicious.

>>4169825
But... She doesn't care about framing Natsuhi in EP6. Hell, during the duel, she was more concerned about saving her own life than anything else.

>>4169659
how does shkannon get past knox#10?
can't recall any specific clues to those doubles (in previous episodes at least), or should we interpret jessi's cosplaying and fake-kinzo as a general ok for people to disguise themselves as others?

>>4169822
Episode 5, Krauss and Natsuhi don't want her to find out.

>>4169818
We never saw Natsuhi or Krauss tell Jessica about Kinzo. On the other hand, we know for a fact the servants were in on it.

It could be as simple as Natsuhi and Krauss tricking Jessica into thinking he's alive. It might not be that improbable, considering she doesn't give a fuck about Kinzo either way.

>>4169838
ShKanon's theory doesn't have double or disguise.
It's just one person after all, Shannon was always Shannon and Kanon was always Kanon, they aren't trying to pass for someone they aren't.

>>4169785

This is exactly what I think. It's like we're the same person.

Thinking logically, Episode 6 would be a terrible fuck up on Ryukishi's part if ShKanon is the culprit. Episode 6 made it WAYYYY to obvious. I honestly believe that it's a big red herring (or the toxic he mentioned in the interview) to throw us. We are only 3/4 of the way there. For the culprit to become obvious at this point would be disappointing.

>>4169838
Shkannon has been hinted since EP 1 and even more so in EP 2.

-Battler never sees them together in the same room
-Battler never sees Kanon's dead body
-Kanon and Shannon are a 'furniture pair'

These are the notable ones but EP 6 is one giant Shkannon hinting fest.

they sleep in the same bed, only one can have their love, Kanon got into the guest room when it should have been impossible due to Erika's sealing

>>4169853
The poison mentioned by R07 was in episode 5.
You know the one episode that seemingly disproved ShKanon.
Also this theory has been popular since the beginning.

>>4169842
Yeah, you say that, but two things to remember here:
1. This is Krauss and Natsuhi we are talking about here, and it is not a matter of tricking people for a day, it's a matter of tricking a person who lives on the island for more than a year. Note well that they didn't really fool anyone on that day either, the next year everyone is seeking to find out what the hell is up with Kinzo.
2. Jessica indicates to Battler that she has interacted with him regularly. Heck, she even states that if she had her way, Kinzo would never come out of his study...(which he wouldn't if he was dead and she didn't know). If she was truly ignorant, she wouldn't indicate to him that she has interacted with him.

>>4169853
but he shouldn't be making red herrings by now, I really think Shkanon is btrue just for ep6 symbolism, but I don't think they're the culprits in any way
People just assumed they were, just because they got excited, I'd like a red text "despite how many personalities they have, they're not culprits or killers", then back to square 0

>>4169853
I agree with this. The only thing that throws me is that the start page says that EP6 is "no longer hints but confessions."

But Ryukishi also said he didn't want to give away answers until the end, and wanted people to keep theorizing until the bitter end.

>>4169827

An all servant (minus Gohda) plus Nanjo theory makes sense though, they have the resources and manpower necessary for such an operation. They have the keys, and they know the layout. They're servants so nobody notices them. They have all the time they need to plan shit out. They have access to Kinzo's room and the occult diagrams and equipment. They probably know where Kinzo's ring is. In EP1 Kumasawa fucking spies on people without anyone noticing, that's sure to be useful along with her acting skills.

It's even brought up in game how suspicious they are. Krauss sent them away from the Mansion. Yet they were able to do it anyway. I believe EP1 to be their victory with nothing much fucking things up, except for the final 3 way death in the end. I'm still pondering that.

>>4169853
Good morning.
At last, it is the opening of the game by that Battler-sama.

Can Battler-sama play the important part of a gamemaster magnificently or not? Let us see to the fight from the opposite side of the chessboard.

The difficulty level no longer exists.
These are no longer hints but confessions.

>>4169864

First line is my mistake, but what does your last line have to do with anything I posted?

>>4169883
he even said he's not gonna explain it like ep4 tea party, explaining every trick and closed room, he did it at Higurashi and poeple hated it, so maybe just explain the most difficults and leave the rest up to interpretation

>>4169890
Except EP 3 all the servants are dead by the 1st twilight.

Like I said, an all servant theory would be a shit end. They don't all have the motivations to kill everyone. Genji is highly devoted to the family, Kumasawa is hinted to be good by her connection to Virgilia alone, Gohda probably isn't involved either.

>>4169827
They're suspicious, but I don't think they're the murderers.

My guess is that they probably had their own plan to use Kinzo's death to gain some of his money for themselves, hence all the hassle of the bank details and sending money to their relatives. That said, I doubt all the servants would be in on that. Genji would be unlikely to do something so dishonorable, and Gohda....well, nobody lets him know anything anyway.

It's not impossible to imagine Kumasawa and Nanjo hatching a plan together. After all, Virgilia and Gaap are very good friends.

>>4169904
And also, the Butler did it is one of the most annoying cliches around.

>>4169737
Actually, it could still have been Beatrice who gave the letter and umbrella to Maria.

>>4169891

Again, what's the point of this post? Check the post that I'm quoting people. I'm not denying ShKanon, I'm denying them being the main culprit.

>>4169905
>It's not impossible to imagine Kumasawa and Nanjo hatching a plan together. After all, Virgilia and Gaap are very good friends.
>implying Nanjo = Gaap

Not this shit again.

>>4169904
Virgilia helps Beatrice you idiot.
Remember the stake who always kill Kumasawa? GREED, there you know why she helped ShKanontrice.
Genji is just happy following the master plan of his true master and isn't afraid of dying for it, being the samurai he is.

>>4169914
from before:
>Episode 6 made it WAYYYY to obvious. I honestly believe that it's a big red herring (or the toxic he mentioned in the interview) to throw us.

The start screen says there are confessions, not hints.

>>4169905
I still think the Nanjo = Gaap theory is hilarious, though some of that is due to all the fanart of Nanjo as Gaap.

>>4169922
Kumasawa was killed by Envy, not Greed.

>>4169934
Goddam, I knew it was one of the two.
Well envy works the same way, Kumasawa was obviously interested in the money, she even had photos of the epitaph in her house and was actively trying to solve it.

>>4169852
heh, that's a real dumb solution if it indeed is true
they're clearly presented as different individuals so the shkanon entity have to disguise itself as one or the other, regardless of any eventual DID on its part

>>4169927
Yes, but are you going to believe it just because the opening tells you so? Do be aware of eqivocations, as they will mess you up.
Oh, by the way, Beatrice is an evil witch, and magic doesn't exist.

>>4169912
>Almost as though she was waiting for a memory of Beatrice to be revived.

God, if this ends up being true...fuck this game. Greatest troll of all time.

>>4169954
I think they can either misleading or not. The openings never stated that Beatrice was evil.

>>4169952
Disguise implies trying to become something you aren't.
That's not the case with ShKanon because they were both originally that way.

>>4169957
too late bro

Beatrice is imaginary

>>4169966
Still, they do have to fool people into not recognizing that they are the same person.
Never stated they look alike, so the ability for them to pass as another is doubtful.

>>4169904

Yes. That's why I think EP3 was done by someone else. Even Beatrice's letter was different! Note how direct to the point it is. Yeah I also think Gohda isn't involved. Kumasawa however, has a boatload of diseases, a large family and not long to live. I can see her being in it for the money.

Genji? Remember EP1. Genji goes into Kinzo's room and listens to him RAGE at his family, while preparing him absinthe. Kinzo's dead, so I choose to see it as Genji internalizing those thoughts while drinking, reminiscing about his master. And surely, Kinzo acting like that was sure to happen in the past as well, while he was alive. I think Genji is loyal, not so much to the Ushiromiyas, but to Kinzo. That's some deep samurai spirit loyalty shit going on there. If he sees that the Ushiromiyas are trashing his master's name, who's to say he won't think of them as unworthy trash? It's been repeatedly emphasized how much like vultures everyone is at the family conference.

>>4169966
Don't think so. Kanon had a body in EP 3 - you can say its not true, because Battler didn't see it, but then all the adults would be lying for some really weird reason. Kanon died before the game began and Shannon started to disguise as him, so that Jessica wouldn't get upset and nobody would suspect him being dead.

>>4169971
I know, I know...but still...fucking Shkanontrice. It's disgusting.

>>4169983
Wait, wait, so Shannon, disguised as Kanon, because Jessica was close to Kanon......
in order to trick Jessica into thinking Kanon isn't dead?

Methinks you haven't thought your cunning plan through.

>>4169981
again, just read the amnag/watch the anime, exactly alike, I always thought it READING THE VN, they looked like twins.
Remember-dedsigns always aprved by Ryu, if he hadn't wanted, Shannon and Kanon wouldn't look alike at all

>>4169983
No, it really can't work.
Disguising yourself as someone who died can't work with Knox.

>>4169981
R07 probably thought it would be too obvious if he stated it, blame is writing skills.

>>4169983
We don't know if they even came close to Kanon's body, it could be that only Nanjo came close.
Would be like episode 1 then.
The simple fact that we never see Kanon's body, ever, show that there is something weird there.

>>4169981
Even if its never stated they do look alike. Just look at them in a scene together. Facial structure is the same, eye shape is the same. Kanon also wears platform shoes, which could be Shannon making up for her lack of height.

>>4170014
The same could be said of basically all sprites in the game, that's nothing.

>>4170028
It's designed like that. Eva and Rosa have similar face structures and Krauss and Rudolf have similar face structures, because the four of them are siblings. Jessica and Natsuhi also have similar facial features, as do Ange and Kyrie (Kasumi was saying Ange's nose and mouth were the same as Kyrie's).

The fact that they look so alike, despite being stated not to be twins or even blood related siblings, is incredibly odd.

>>4170043
Oh, come now, you Shkanontrice people are pathetic. Using R07's shitastic art as an indication of two characters being the same? Yeah, no. I mean, heck, Gaap's face looks like Nanjo, so they must be the same, right?

>>4170066
>>Gaap's face looks like Nanjo, so they must be the same, right?
Actually, yes.

>>4170066
It's not just the art, its also the enormous hinting that has been going on. Shkannon has been a theory since EP 1 that has only been growing stronger, rather than having so much disproving evidence.

>>4170066
I believe this is what we call a 'can of worms', no?

>>4170066
I'm going to take it as exaggeration that you think Gaap and Nanjo have similar face structures, because they clearly don't.

>>4169966
yes, i understand the reasoning and up until ep5 they never red text the exact number of humans, only "no more then x" so i guess it could work
i just find the solution silly so i'll rather wait a bit longer before subscribing to that theory

however, is DID well known enough to slip past knox#4?

I don't want Shkannontrice to be true because Shkannontricefags are fucking delusional.

There is no need for them to be so delusional. Shkannontrice is hinted out the wazoo in EP6. It is the most likely theory to be true at the moment, like it or not.

And yet Shkannontricefags need to take it to entirely new levels that haven't been hinted at at all. Like throwing in the condition that this means George/Shannon and Jessica/Kanon were fake outs, and saying that we need to ignore half of (hell, "assume the opposite of" would be more appropriate wording) EP2 to get the real solution.

If you're going to believe in Shkannontrice, believe in it the way Ryukishi is presenting. Characterization doesn't change. The romances don't change. No one is "pretending" to be someone else. There are legitimately three different people in the same body, as stupid as you may think that is.

>>4170066
But Gaap is Nanjo!

>>4170109
Well, George and Shannon don't change.
Jessica and Kanon certainly do.

>>4170092
I bet you can't tell them apart

another solid clue for Gaanjo

>>4170112
No, they don't.

Just because they'll never get a happy ending doesn't mean the romance never happened.

>>4170109
You got ShKanontrice entirely wrong.
The whole point of it is that none of the pairings involving this character are fake.
Shannon really loves George, Kanon really loves Jessica.
There is no pretending there, DID doesn't work that way.

>>4170118
Nah, they change broski. Jessica would know that the two are the same, and as for their, ahem, er, "romance", well, that was something that always felt forced.

>>4170124
That's exactly how Ryukishi is presenting it (which is what I said), but not how /jp/ interprets it.

>>4170127
She doesn't know they're the same. In fact, it's hinted if anyone in EP6 knows about the DID issue, it's George and not Jessica.

When they're all summoned to meta-meta-meta-world for the trial, George was expecting it, but Jessica has no clue what the fuck is going on. Shannon says to Kanon something along the lines of, "You haven't talked to her about this yet?"

>>4170109

I don't want Shkannontrice to be true because using a mental disorder that had no conclusive evidence to support it up to the point when the author said that the mystery is completely solvable is, to me, a complete cop out.

I almost wish the Kyrie theory were true, even though it makes less sense than Shkannontrice.

>>4170141
Oh, ok, so Jessica, who has seen Kanon and Shannon together in all the games, in addition to being stated, multiple times, to have close relationships with both of them, a relationship, that I might add, spans years, has less of a clue than George, who hardly ever sees Kanon throughout the games.

That makes total sense. Why have you stopped thinking?

>>4170144
Oh, I agree with you there. But looking at it objectively, I think Shkannontrice is probably true. But the way /jp/ is taking it and running with it completely idiotic ways bothers me even more than the fact that the base theory is probably true.

>>4170156
Shkannontrice is fucking stupid no matter how you spin it, bro. Jessica wouldn't be the only one they're fooling. You'd need to have Natsuhi and possibly Gohda and Krauss in on it, too.

>>4170162
With Natsuhi, Gohda, and Krauss, I can accept it because they aren't shown to be particularly close to the two.

Jessica, however, has a very, very, holy fuck these people are like you BFFs relationship with them.

She would have to know.

>>4170156 Oh, ok, so Jessica, who has seen Kanon and Shannon together in all the games

We can't trust that viewpoint.

>>4170174
Natsuhi is pretty familiar with Shannon and Kanon. Hell, almost everytime we see Natsuhi in EP2 she is singling out Shannon and giving her a long lecture.

>>4170191
She sees them together because she knows.

>>4170191
Nah, nah, bro, not in seeing them together, as in, she saw Kanon, then she saw Shannon.
But it's moot, the point is that I'm not buying Jessica being duped. Out of all the characters, she's the one who can't be duped. Go ahead and say she's in on it, that's fine, but her being duped is impossible.

>>4170194

Everyone but Battler seems to know that Shannon has DID. You'd think Battler would be informed about this either:

1) He gets to the island and someone tells him about it so Battler doesn't do something stupid.

2) When the first twilight happens and Kanon, lo and behold, is walking around even though there is a corpse representing Shannon on the floor of the shed.

>>4170199
This. Woe to those who think that Jessica is just an idiot who has no idea of what is going on, you're going to be trolled, hard. Well, actually, you already were.

>>4169790
EP6 would have you think otherwise. She could have won if that's what she thought.

>>4170144
> using a mental disorder that had no conclusive evidence to support it up to the point when the author said that the mystery is completely solvable is, to me, a complete cop out.
But that's the way Ryukishi07 writes.

> In a puzzle book, if the answer is written on the next page, your thinking stops the instant you see it, right?
> I’m aiming to release the answers in a way that will make those who have reached the right conclusion know that they got it right, and yet give only a hint to those who don’t yet understand the answer.
> For example, if we presume that the answer to a riddle was “apple”, then when we turn the page and see “something round and red”, people who thought the answer was apple will think “ah, just what I thought” and have their reasoning confirmed. And for people who didn’t know, it becomes a hint: “What is red and round?” This is the approach I am aiming for.

>>4170283
>But that's the way Ryukishi07 writes.

Fucking brain parasites. I thought he promised he wouldn't pull that kind of shit again.

>>4170283

There's a difference between subtly hinting at an answer and just pulling something out of a hat.

>>4170296
Relax, guys, don't get your panties in a bunch, I'm sure episode 7 will mess shit up again, considering it's focusing on Beato.

>>4170302

Especially when the latter destroys any suspension of disbelief.

>>4170302
he forshadowed the brain parasytes, just check eps 1 and 3, lots of hints if you know what you're looking for

>>4170302
Considering the Shkanon theory has existed in some form since Episode 2, or possibly even Episode 1, I'd say he's been hinting at it from the beginning.

SHKANNONTRICE FORESHADOW

>>4170312
> Especially when the latter destroys any suspension of disbelief.
Wait a minute. You'll accept the possibility that the Meta World might exist, and that doesn't destroy your suspension of disbelief, but something that's already been shown to occur in some form in-game does? I mean, are you just conveniently forgetting about the whole Eva/EVA thing in Episode 3?

>>4170332
that's jessitrice foreshadowing due to the roundabout way she denies it

>>4170332
>>4170336
evatricemind

>>4170341
Wrong. We already know Jessica's alternate persona: Jessie.

>>4170332
Uh, bro, I hate to say this, but, uh, that's actually in favor of Jessitrice.

Jessie is the culprit, that cosplaying bitch

>>4170355
This is disturbingly cute.

>>4170347
Oh, please. Jessie is still Jessica. Battler's question was along the lines of it being another person and conciousness entirely.

>>4170353
That's in favor of the whole "alternate personality" theory in general.
Kinda like the "one person can have several name" thing in episode 4, practically it was used to deny Kinzo but it really meant more than that.

Jessishkannonanjogenjasawatrice

>>4170369
Well it WAS her dress.

>>4170355
Y'know, Moonfag here, it's possible to be a culprit and not have a split persona. It's called being, uh, evil?
Shocking, I know.

>>4170377

Yeah but is it missing the eagle?

>>4170374
So Umineko was one big monologue?

>>4170372
Nope, Eva dodges the question specifically related to Jessica having, and I quote, a WITCH LIKE persona.

So it does not mean her "Jessie" persona, it means that Eva was unable to directly deny that Jessica had a WITCH LIKE persona.

I believe Jessitrice or even Shkannontrice are possible, but I don't believe that she/he/it is the true culprit

>>4170379
You can't be evil unless you're a corporate businessman, a conservative politician, or a NAZI.

Didn't you get the memo?

Get out Umineko devs.

>>4170390
Read between the fucking lines, retard.
She went on a roundabout way because it could have troublesome if Battler had kept on persisting on this theory.

For example, she denies in red that Jessica doesn't have a witch like existence within her.
What if Battler said something like "well someone else on the island can have one"?
She couldn't have denied it in red, that would have been checkmate for her.

>>4170374
Battler will have a big surprise during the honeymoon

>>4170336

>Wait a minute. You'll accept the possibility that the Meta World might exist

It doesn't matter whether the Meta World exists or not; it's existence does not affect the mystery.

>I mean, are you just conveniently forgetting about the whole Eva/EVA thing in Episode 3?

Unlike Shannon and Kanon (possibly Beatrice), EVA was not a real personality. EVA was more a personification of Eva's dream of becoming the head of the Ushiromiya family. Thus, I can accept EVA as an explanation of Eva's actions.

However, for Shkannon to not completely destroy my suspension of disbelief, there must be more evidence that Shannon and Kanon are two separate personalities that share the same body beyond:

1) Battler never sees the two of them together
2) Red Truth proving this

As the fact that EVERYONE but Battler knows this, yet purposely leaves him in the dark about it, is complete bullshit.

>>4170406
Wow, you are indeed mad.
And no, Eva had him on the ropes, he's clearly shitting bricks when he asks her that.
She could deny Jessitrice and she wouldn't come to any harm. In fact, it would have made more sense for her to do that, as it would have discouraged thoughts of personas from happening.

Instead she simply says Jessica's body did not commit murder. Why do that when she could have directly denied it, which would have been more effective, and would have discouraged him from thinking of personas?

>>4170436
Once again, she needed to take him on another path because he was on a good way there, that's why she denied it in a roundabout way.
Read between the lines.

>>4170434
> there must be more evidence that Shannon and Kanon are two separate personalities that share the same body beyond:
> [...]
> 2) Red Truth proving this

Well hello there, Dlanor.

> there must be more evidence that Shannon and Kanon are two separate personalities that share the same body
Like the whole LIVE IN THE SAME ROOM, SLEEP IN THE SAME BED, ONLY ONE CAN FULFILL HIS/HER LOVE?

>>4170450
I am reading between the lines, you pretentious rabble-rousing ruffian!
If you want to discourage personas, you deny that a character has a witch-like persona.

All she did was deny that Jessica's body did the murders. That doesn't discourage him from considering personas in the slightest, the fact that she couldn't should incentivize to pursue it more.

If she denied Jessitrice, then she directly denies the concept of personas, thus deincentivizing him from following the path.

It is you who should should read between the lines, because what you are saying makes no sense.

>>4170467

Which wasn't revealed until EP6, two episodes after the author said that every mystery in the game was solvable and could be perfectly explained.

Until EP6, there was no conclusive evidence that supported the notion that Shannon and Kanon are just different personalities of the same being.

>>4170436
> In fact, it would have made more sense for her to do that, as it would have discouraged thoughts of personas from happening.
But if Shkanontrice is true, then her doing that and discouraging the whole persona thing would be counterproductive for Beatrice anyway.

>>4170480
Denying Jessitrice would have been too dangerous because he could have persisted on this path.
Especially since she would have to have been very specific to deny Jessitrice.

>>4170491
And again, there were enough hints in the first two Episodes for people to develop Shkanon as a theory. It's just that they developed it wrongly, and didn't think about the whole multiple-persona aspect. I know that I once said that I disliked the Shannontrice theory, but would be okay with it if Beatrice was actually a separate persona, and not just Shannon pretending. And look where we are now...

>>4170491
Look at the way Kanon always appears like a ninja, always saying how he was listening when Shannon was talking to such or such character.
Some of these time are borderline impossible, yet Kanon is always there.

>>4170513

Not solely suggestive that Shannon has DID.

>>4170507

I feel the same way as you. However, I still think this is poor writing, especially for a mystery.

>>4170513
And there's also the fact that, in Episode 2... wait a minute.

In Episode 2, dress Beatrice only appears in scenes where Shannon and/or Kanon are present (excepting the very end, which at this point we can be fairly certain was an allegory for the explosion or whatever it was that happens at midnight on October 5th).

>>4170539
Yes

>>4170501
Nah, it would not have been dangerous. What is dangerous is the fact that she DID NOT directly deny it. That's a bit of a hint.

HEY WAIT, YOU DIDN'T DENY JESSITRICE, DIRECTLY. REPEAT IN RED THAT JESSITRICE DOESN'T EXIST

If Eva did deny it, AFTER going round and about, Battler would THEN suspect more on the persona garbage. If she couldn't, then yeah, Jessitrice would have been a critical part of the mystery.

However, if she didn't go round and about, and responded directly to Battler's question, she shuts him down. The fact that she dodges the question brings it under scrutiny.

You assume that her directly denying it would be risky, but it's apparant that not denying it directly is even risker. Luckily, Battler is incompetent, but basic logic tells us that directly denying it would have been the way to go.

The fact that she didn't is a big clue.

>>4170534
> However, I still think this is poor writing, especially for a mystery.
Didn't you hear? Umineko is a romance.

>>4170546
Yeah, a clue that a TRICE theory could be true, not solely Jessitrice.

>>4170547

It's a pretty pathetic romance story as well.

What keeps bothering me is how Battler keeps denying the existence of a 19th person who's a witch.

There could be a 19th person who isn't a witch..

>>4170547
DAT_GRIN!

>>4170557
It's not like YOU can make a better story.