/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>200x195
it's magic

>>4161363
Oh, ho, ho it's magic, you know
Never believe it's not so
It's magic, you know
Never believe it's not so.

Can't see shit captain.

you really epect ANYONE to believe that Erika missed someone in the room after checking everything?
It worked for battler, she had just checked the bthroom, but by the time she finished, she had looked everywhere

It's all a dream.

*cackle*

Erika doesn't exist.

>>4161418
How can someone who doesn't exist kill people?

>>4161422
They weren't killed by her

>>4161449
Red text say otherwise though.

>>4161455
Red text also says that there are 18 and 17 persons... so the "Red text says..." is shit now.

>>4161460
Red text never lies.
If it says that there are both 18 and 17 people at the same time, then it means that these statements are both true in some way.
You should get used to the idea of ShKanontrice.

>>4161470
that only points to Shkanon, nothing more

Just because there is a "X" way to explain how someone got killed without magic doesn't mean the person was killed by normal means. There will always be one (bizarre) way or another, someone could claim everyone would have died by the ingestion of small bombs and everyone would say that it makes sense because they just don't want to accept the existance of magic.

^^

Battler is just too butthurt to admit he's wrong, right?

What the hell... do you all think that DID has a switch so you can change between Personality 1 and 2 whenever you fuckin' want?

>>4161360

Thanks for the diagram Anon! It makes things clear.

Also, to anyone searching for suspects, reread EP1 again, especially the part where Maria opens Beato's letter. Nanjo is being a suspicious motherfucker, being the first to point out that it's "Kinzo's" seal, and vouching for it's authenticity hurriedly.

Also, Kanon might be the one to give the Umbrella, since he's the one to rush to the guesthouse. Nothing discounts this, and it;s been reiterated again and again how simple minded and pure Maria is before that, so anyone can easily convince her that she is Beatrice.

tl;dr Rereading EP1 shitting bricks.

>>4162628
in fiction it works that way, sad but true, but what these people are doing is that personalities die like flies

Erika says she's the 18th person, not that there are 18 people

>>4162645

Beatrice's letter EP1.

>I will give back all the interest that I have took.

Interesting. This leads credence to the theory that the safe deposit boxes are compensation for the survivors of the Epitaph murders. How can you give back a life? Just pay the corresponding amount of money for it. Battler did say that 200 million yen is the lifetime wages of a single person. It wouldn't be stretch to think that Kinzo, equates human life like that as well.

>>4162645
> so anyone can easily convince her that she is Beatrice.
Or Kanon actually IS Beatrice.

>>4162660
Why don't we just say that Ryukishi07 likes taking leaves out of Nasu's book and leave it at that?

>>4161470
>ShKanontrice

Wait...that's three personalities. Wouldn't that bump the number up?

>>4162707
but in KnK they had a legitimate reason to die, SHIKI died to save Shiki from death, and 3rd personality was just the different one that appeared after the accident to compensate, it's not just: To save Battler, now my Kanon personality is dead, that's stupid

>>4162743
> To save Battler, now my Kanon personality is dead
Apparently it's stated in Episode 6 (in red, I believe) that the reason Kanon entered the guest room was not necessarily to save Battler.

>>4162707
DID and how personalities live/die is not Nasu's or anyone's exclusive mechanic.
The point is, what is incorporated in this specific story, is stupid/

>>4162734
No, because there is nothing that would allow that third personality to be counted as an additional person. Shannon and Kanon are legally counted as individuals, but Beatrice is not.

>>4162734
Not really.
Red text can't lie, it also can't go into sophistry bullshit, otherwise Battler "Asumu is my mother" would have worked, since he really believed she was his mother and she really did raise him as her own son.

So the red text count Shannon and Kanon both as separate and the same being for another reason.

Remember the "truth of the future shapes the past" that was spammed?
And how there was plenty of investigations but no one managed to find the true culprit?

The answer is simply that Shannon and Kanon exist as 2 people officially, even in the future, obvious since nobody thought they were a weird presence.
So one of the truth of the future is that they are 2 people, while the real truth is that they are one and the same.
Therefore both red texts work.

>>4161360
Thumbnail much, bro?

It can be done, however.

>>4162751
It was implied by him that whoever entered the room did it just to save Battler and fooling erika

>>4162695

Kyrie took a break to specifically talk to Battler after the money conversation started again after Maria's letter. Why? She asked Battler to question Maria gently about Beatrice. Right from the beginning, Kyrie's reasoning was that there was no 19th person X, and that someone was just pretending to be Beatrice, since their actions are full of contradictions.

I'll turn it around. Kyrie had no reason whatsoever to tell Battler about these suspicions, especially if she knew about the Beatrice plan. That would just arouse someone's curiosity and fuck up a delicate operation. Furthermore, she probably wouldn't think to ask a kid to investigate Maria if she already has that information or if she doesn't want that information. So, she wants that information, she wants it badly enough to enlist Battler's help and to take time out to seek and talk to him personally.

I suspect Kyrie is not part of Team Beato, nor aware of it, and that she has other plans, plans that may be fucked up by the letter's appearance.

>>4162755
>Shannon and Kanon are legally counted as individuals, but Beatrice is not.

This shit ain't logical, captain.

Sad thing is I can't find a reason to object.

>>4162762

Which exits were sealed by the tape?

>>4162799
I don't see what you don't find logic there.
Shannon and Kanon both officially exist, obviously.
And Beatrice doesn't, another obvious thing.

Heck it would fit the whole 19 > x > 18 bullshit that was spammed since the beginning, Beatrice would be a person that really isn't a person, the mysterious x.

>>4162794
Or Kyrie doesn't give a fuck and wanted to see if Battler could figure it out.

>>4162786
Yeah, except how would they know on the gameboard to trick Erika?

>>4162800
Red = sealed by tape. Moreover, the cousins' room (with Jessica, Kanon, Krauss, Rudolf, Genji and Gohda) 'remained a perfect closed room until the last minute'.

>>4162800
All of them. The only one that was not confirmed to remain sealed (until Erika broke seals, that is) was the window on the room Shannon, Hideyoshi, Nanjo, George, and Kumasawa are in. The bathroom door in the guest room wasn't sealed, of course, as there are no other exits out of that bathroom. ...Besides the drains, of course, but I doubt you'd expect Battler to be able to fit down those.

You can't explain it with Shkannon either.

>>4162817
You can.
Look at the pic again.

Kumasawa is Kanon? Lolwat.

Can anyone check the servant schedules for each game? This just jumped out to me all of the sudden. It's the exact opposite of EP5.

>>4162814

Was it said in Red that Kanon was in the cousin's room? The narration might simply be lying at that point.

>>4162853
No. After confirming in red that five people were in the first room (the room with Shannon) and confirming their names in red, Battler confirmed in red that "all others"/"everyone else" (meaning all those except the people from the first twilight) were in the other room. Meaning Kanon's name was never said, and that he could not be in the first room unless he shared a name with one of the five people and/or WAS one of the five people.

>>4162853
They were specifically vague about it.

The red was something like "the victims of the first twilight (Natsuhi, Maria, Rosa, Eva, Kyrie and Battler) were all in their respective rooms. Shannon, Hideyoshi, Nanjo, George and Kumasawa were in the room beside the cousins' room. And everyone else was in the cousins' room."

>>4162873
>>4162874

So this is where the Kanon Kumusawa theory comes from. I get it. At least this gets Kanon out of that room.

>>4162878
But using the Kanon Kumasawa theory means completely ignoring the part of the plot involving the duel of love between Shannon and Kanon.

Even Kanon=George is possible by this logic.

Didn't Kyrie come up with the "The North Wind and The Sun Strategy" in Episode 1?

>>4162896
no, it isn't denied in red, only works with last names

>>4162887
Not really, since they all have their shotgun wedding in the end anyway.

Plus, given that the love contests started on the gameboard, I'm willing to stretch it to Battler trying to obscure the truth and protect Beato's heart.

>>4162900
This strategy is one of the most famous in Japan.

>>4162900
yes, she did

>>4162887
Yeah, the whole "not possessing an entire soul" thing. And there's this certain monologue involving the creation of Beatrice that has an interesting connection into that in its final paragraph...

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

The difference between ShKanon and Kanon shares a name with Kumasawa theories is that one is foreshadowed and the other isn't.

>>4162904
Except the ending of the duel was what caused Moetrice to have her epiphany and remember everything.

>>4162918
I am going to bitterly deny Shkannontrice to the bitter end and you won't convince me otherwise.

>>4162918
My question is how the hell did Battler and Erika not think of this solution?

>>4162930
Go ahead and deny Shkanontrice. But at this point, denying Shkanon is an exercise in futility.

Explain why Beatrice being 19 years old is important enough to mention. Meanwhile Shannon and Kanon are both exactly the same age of 16.

>>4162940
I'll deny that too, because Shannon was a bitch in the duel and Kanon was a bro for once. He even had EP6 song all for himself.

>>4162954
>He even had the best EP6 song all for himself.

fuck me

>>4162940

You know, I think Ryukishi is headed in the direction of Shkannontrice after EP6.

But after seeing faggots like you so self-assuredly saying that every other theory is moot and ignoring any evidence to the contrary, I'm starting to think that Ryukishi could be setting us up on purpose so he can laugh in our faces in the end. He already told us he doesn't want us to stop thinking until the very end.

>>4162939
Battler did know, but he didn't know how to use it to show Erika the closed room without losing the game. (=Having Beato killed for real)

>>4162939
Battler did have a solution, but it would have involved exposing a portion of Beato's heart, and he refused to do that. Whether or not his solution was similar or identical to the one Beato came up with is unknown.

>>4162957

What's that?

>>4162967

Beato's heart huh? Very interesting.

>>4162961
of course, Ryu is known for misleading people, with the eps released you can make 3 or 4 different theories
what he's gonna do-check the forums in january, get the most unpopular theory and then use it, that simple

Except by episode 6 there is not so much room for theories, as most of them were denied during previous episodes.
"There's no difficulty level this time, that's actually a confession."

>>4162949
Explain how anyone other than Shannon/Kanon (you know orphan and all) could be 19.

>>4162979
At this point, unpopular theory = any theory that isn't Shkannontrice or Shkannon + Jessitrice.

Rosatrice end here we come.

>>4162949
Well, if you're going strictly by stated ages, then nobody could be Beatrice, because no one is explicitly stated to be 19. There's nothing to say that Shannon didn't lie about her age, however. In fact, you could even argue that Shannon and/or Kanon is the child from 19 years ago, the one who was given to Natsuhi.

>>4162975
Battlefield. SF09-sayu-01 in your BGM2 folder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNFS_JybaNs

>>4162841

Also, for people saying Hideyoshi idolizing the Warring states period came from the left field, they're wrong. George mentions it in EP1 while talking to Shannon of all places. Damnit, a 4 EP gap between that fact. What the hell.

>>4162990
I know, which was made be convinced of Shkannontrice at first. But then I remembered that Ryukishi said in an interview that he wanted people theorizing until the bitter end, so I'm not sure if I can buy it 100%.

I'll wait to see what he says in future interviews, though. The subject of Shkannontrice is bound to come up, whether implicitly or explicitly.

>>4162918
And on a subject potentially related to the duel:


Battler: Yeah, it was like Russian Roulette. Still, you believed that I would eventually understand and repeated the game as long as you could.

Proto-Beato: Perhaps this is rude of me to ask, but...what did you realize at the very last moment of the very last game with the former me, Battler-san?

Narration: That was the mysterious question.

It was what Battler had asked Beato the entire time.

But now, Beato was doing the asking.

Battler: Our positions are completely reversed. The former you was the one that remembered...and I was the one who had forgotten. And now it's the opposite. I'm the only one that remembers, and you're the only one that has forgotten.

Proto-Beato: If you're all right with it, would you please tell me?

Battler: Telling you would be simple. But I won't do it. Not because I'm being malicious. It's just that...I want to believe in a miracle, even if it's just a little bit.

Proto-Beato: ...a miracle?

Narration: Yes, the last remaining seed of a miracle that Battler was leaving.

If Beato could remember without being told...That would be proof that Beato had revived in the truest sense.

So he wouldn't tell her.

It was the final seed of hope Battler couldn't bear to toss aside, even knowing the likelihood of Beato's revival was so slim.

>>4162996
...why would a 6-year-old girl lie about their age?

>>4162991
Battler being the true owner of the world.
He created Beato like in the pony theory.

>>4163014
...Oh god. Remember how Kinzo had written a will at one point? What if the will appointed Battler as the head?

>>4163013
Why would Kinzo take a 6 years old girl as a servant?

>>4163021
Why would he take a 9-year-old girl as a servant?

>>4163019

Pretty old theory really. I like it. Use it to explain while Team Beato always spares him till the end. EP6 shits all over that though, sadly.

>>4163021
it's explained that he trains them, since they are orphans, to have at leas a good job and some references for future ones, and he's been doing so since a long time ago
it's probably just a way to 'create' Beatrices, though

>>4163023
Because this is a child who share his blood, being Asumu and Rudolf's child.

>>4163025
it doesn't, they're just trolling Erika, nothing more

>>4163028
>being Asumu and Rudolf's child.

Whoa, I think there was a fucking huge jump in logic somewhere.

>>4163021
While a valid question, it still remains even if you increase Shannon's age by 3. It does make one wonder why Kinzo would hire such a young servant...

...But I just remembered something from the anime. It might mean nothing, but... the "servant" who was mentioned in the Episode 3 introductory flashback, the one chasing the cat, was, if I remember correctly, voiced by Ami Koshimizu, Rosa's VA. Again, it might not mean anything, and in fact probably doesn't mean anything, especially if I'm remembering wrongly, but you never know...

>>4163035
The child who was given to Natsuhi is Asumu's child.

>>4163039
That's a baseless assumption.

>>4163046
Somebody said that Featherine speculated/stated it in Episode 6.

>>4163035
The child given to natushi was Rosa's, and it has some circumstantial evidence that point to it

>>4163058
...What?

>>4163048
I don't recall that.

>>4163061
-Rosa was bullied by her siblings
-Rosa was possibly raped
-During the period Natsuhi received the baby, Rosa was 'travelling with some friends', which is the most usual excusse for: teen pregnancy in its last stages and the actual delivery
-Rosa should have be gone of the island for at least two months, if not, she would notice the baby wasn't natsuhi's

>>4163078
> -During the period Natsuhi received the baby, Rosa was 'travelling with some friends', which is the most usual excusse for: teen pregnancy in its last stages and the actual delivery
Or, alternatively, Rosa had "run away" from the family during that time period because she'd just killed Beatrice II and was freaking out about it.

>>4163083
nah, she was possibly pregnant, remeber how she says that she thought of it 'as a dream' and only remembers it in ep3, she has it quite buried
still betting on Rosa's child

>>4163097
But if that were the case, why would Rosa not choose to take care of the baby then? Why would she choose to take care of Maria in the same situation later on?

ITT: everyone still falls for r07s trap

ahaha.wav aha- ah- ahah- ah- ah- a- a- ahaha.wav

>>4163128
The trap was in Episode 5.

>>4163138
the trap starts with ep2 and ends with ep6

>>4163142
I take it you're anti-fantasy, then. Too bad for you that Episode 1 was a gameboard as well.

>>4163078

>Rosa was possibly raped

Note how in EP1 when Genji is about to put a blanket on her, Rosa totally freaked out when she felt someone touching her while sleeping.

>>4163145
You probably misunderstood me. r07 successfully makes you all believe there is just one or two culprits.

That is a really good way to masstroll on a very high level.

>>4163152
Betting ten to one that it was Kinzo who did it.

>>4163165
...What do you mean? Of course there are lots of culprits. Hell, the culprit probably changes with each game.

>>4163167
I dunno man, maybe it could have been the servant who had some sorta misfortune.

>>4163173
Sure there are a lot of culprits. And im sure the culprits do NOT change with every game. You have been successfully trolled by r07. :D

There's only one truth and only one reason everything happen.

Remember the "NOTHING would have happened if Battler didn't come".
How can there be several culprit that way?
What could Battler's presence change for people who only care about the money?

>>4163173
(However, the person who sent out the letters and set up whatever caused the explosion that occurs after midnight on October 5th is most likely the same, as the first of those occurs before the game starts and the second occurs at the end of the game/after the game ends.

>>4163185

>Remember the "NOTHING would have happened if Battler didn't come".

I don't remember this. I thought Battler's sin was one of several different reasons people die?

>>4163173
(However, the person who sent out the letters and set up whatever caused the explosion that occurs after midnight on October 5th is most likely the same, as the first of those occurs before the game starts and the second occurs at the end of the game/after the game ends.)

>>4163185
See above. Battler coming was known about ahead of time, so the person may have set things up beforehand because of it. All culprits of the Episodes themselves are inconsequential.

>>4163185
>What could Battler's presence change for people who only care about the money?
His sin.

>>4163196
He's "one of the causes," and Beato doesn't repeat the second part in red. What we instead have is "Because of your sin, people die. Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die. No one escapes, all die."

>>4163206
That's not an answer if you don't try to specify what his sin is.

>>4163233
Then the whole bomb thing described in >>4163197 may have been set up regardless of Battler's involvement. In fact, it may have been planned out with the idea of Battler NOT being there.

>>4163244
It doesn't really help too much, though, because at this point we know that Battler's sin was making a certain promise to Beatrice and then forgetting/not fulfilling that promise.

>>4163233

The hell. A wriggle in the cogs? A space for dissent maybe? Battler fucked up Team Beato's plans somehow by his sin.

I guess, Kinzo wanted him to be the heir, and he left, therefore fucking things up. At the same time he made this weird ass promise to a person, then he left. That also fucked things up.

>>4163244
Battler is the only person on that island who does not care about money. This fact has something to do with his sin.

>>4163152
Rosa the fucking Culprit

Never saw that one coming.

Much better explanation then shkannontrice or whatever

>>4163329
Explain how she could have done anything in episode 1 with her face smashed.

>>4163294
Battler promised to revive the Ushiromiya Family?

>>4163343
Get out

>>4163373
That would be fun. As we know Battler is the next head of this goddamn family he probably should destroy for good.