/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Shannon is Kanon is Beatrice and a bomb explodes and destroy everything.
There, no need to play that shit anymore, saved you the trouble.

Supernatural agencies are forbidden by Knox's second.

>>4110950
I don't believe you.

keep reading faggot

>>4110959
There's no such things as witches, Knox's magical daughter says so.

>>4110959
R07 plays by Knox's rules?

>>4110964
I'm skipping all Ange scenes. Feels good man.

Just wait til it gets to the island OP.

>>4110977
Yes, sir. Wait, no, Dlanor plays by Knox's rules, not Ryu07.

>>4110980
Moron

Uryuu~

>What is this little gay god's creation supposed to be?
Satoshi

>>4110999
True, he usually ignores Knox' 2nd and 8th.

>>4110980

>>4110999
If Battler wants to prove that the murders were done by humans, then he'll have to abide by Knox.

Obviously if Beatrice is the murderer in the end, then Knox can fuck itself.

>>4111023
stop that Chiaki.

>>4111049

If Beatrice is the murderer in the end, then it was never a mystery, but a fantasy.

YOU'RE ALL GENRE BLIND

>>4111066
Oh god, go back to tvtropes.
But, uh, no, it's pretty certain that there is a human culprit using human methods, but that DOES NOT mean magic and witches do not exist.

>>4111023
Stop that

>>4111049
Beatrice = Fantasy

Bernkastel = Mystery

Lambdadelta = Concealment of the truth to perpetuate the game

Battler = Truth

No, really, am I supposed to be enjoying reading about this little piece of trash? I could accept absurd witches, all these tea parties and goat people, because, while meaningless, they were at least a little fun. But her? Jesus... Reading about her feels like a chore. I just wish this bullshit ends soon.

Witches do not exist, a human is the culpit. But the human did the murders with magic.

WHERE IS YOUR BOMB NOW

Ange flashback was good. If so many people just skipped everything without blood and action I can understand why ShKanontrice is so popular.

>>4111088
2/3 of episode 4 is that shit...

>>4111100
But, uh, if humans used magic, they'd be witches.....

Not your blog, bro.
Don't give a damn if you like something or not.
I'm not going to put forth any effort to convince you either way.

>>4111100
Witches do exist, but they can't use magic... waitasecond

>>4111107
What was good about it? Reading how girl had a shitty life and buried herself in delusions makes you happy?

>>4111140
Not to mention being so retarded that even with the answers is the only one that does so fucking badly.

>>4111119
But has it been said in red that "Everyone who uses magic is a witch"?

Picture possibly related. If he's a mighty undead sorcerer he can be the culpit AND be dead at the same time!

>>4111107
ShKanontrice is popular because it is the answer of Umineko.
Blame R07.

>>4111140
If you weren't able to notice it: Ange shows the reader a way how to think about magic, even if you are trying to deny it. The writer, Ryukishi07 wants you to think in a certain way to reach the truth while developing Ange's background and adding hints by presenting the world after the incident. In this world Ange meets with different perspectives, regarding fantasy and mystery

>>4111140
because it's about the true meaning of magic and so on

>>4111166
Is there like a blog or forum thread that explains this Shkanon theory? Because I understand that you can have some other person lurking inside the island by 1 and man from 19 years ago can wreak havoc on the island without violating the red truth.
Also, wasn't there another theory where Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice?

>>4111173
I knew it from beginning. Magic == Delusions. Easy.

What character is he developing? A poor girl who has a shitty life? That character? I don't mind having hints shown, but could he please do that in a way that normal people can enjoy.

>>4111201
Shit my bad. Didn't read your post correctly.
Anyhoo, any links for the theory?

>>4111201
Easymodo, use it.

>>4111206
sorry, Ange's life is shitty in her high school years, so is Maria's but teaches things about magic, also they're entertaining on a secondd run

>>4111206
>do that in a way that normal people can enjoy

Normal non-believer people your are, siding to mystery. Begone!

>>4111201
Isn't the man from 19 years ago just Lambdadelta tricking Natsushi? I haven't finished EP5 yet, so maybe I'm wrong.

>>4111061
WHO THE FUCK IS CHIAKI?!

>>4111237
If you mean it's a fantasy trick to deceive us into thinking that Natsuhi is actually the culprit, then YOU ARE WRONG, IT'S THE MYSTERY'S ILLUSION

>>4111206
> Magic == Delusions.
It's a little more in-depth than that. True magic, in the real world at least, is somewhat like a psychosomatic effect; for example, the way homemade cookies baked by someone who loves you (your mother, girlfriend/boyfirend, etc.) will seem to taste better than storebought cookies (assuming the actual quality of the cookies is the same). The way Virgilia describes it is as an "embellishment" on the truth. What you seem to not understand is that magic does have its purpose, and that for some people (for example, Maria and Ange), it's the only way they can stay somewhat happy in their own situations (though for Ange, the only reason her situation is like that is because of Bernkastel). Don't you remember from Episode 3? The purpose of magic is to make people happy.

>>4111272
I enjoy reading Ryu-chan's way of thinking more than solving his mysteries

>>4111272
Bernkastel = symbolization of the will to find the truth of the mystery at all cost.
Ange's own obsession on what happened on Rokkenjima and her will to solve the mystery made her unable to become family with Eva.

And delusion is delusion.

They'll probably explain how ShKanontrice did everything for love, aka be joined in the golden land with Battler by completing the ritual.
And they'll try to make us feel sad about her, saying that believing in magic was the only way for her to be happy or some shit like this.
And it's probably the reason Battler decided to side with her.
It's going to be really sappy, I can already see it.

>>4111201
Uh, I think the red text at the end lowers the count to 17 people, including Erika.
Meaning that if Shannon and Kanon are the same, there will be no culprit x.

Hell, Culprit x has always been a decoy, the culprit(s) are in Battler's family.

>>4111317
> They'll probably explain how ShKanontrice did everything for love
Don't just assume that the Shkanontrice theory requires them to be the culprit. I, for one, like the combo Shkanontrice + Moon theory.

>>4111342
Because she's the hero that Rokkenjima deserves, but not the one it needs right now...and so we'll hunt her...because she can take it...because she's not a hero...she's a silent guardian, a watchful protector...the Dark Knight

>>4111342
it's funnier, Jessica messing around with them, just add Kyrie controlling Jessica and it's perfect

>>4111342
Doesn't work thematically.
The whole ritual is basically a race of love between, Shannon/George, Kanon/Jessica and Beatrice/Battler.

It wouldn't make sense for Beatrice to get help from Jessica.

Kumasawa is your ally no matter what happens.

>>4111358
I actually get an image of Kyrie and Jessica just being two masterminds whose plans happen to coincide on the same date. The reason why everything is a clusterfuck is that you have two masterminds duking it out.

>>4111364
Do be aware that Jessica and Kanon "lose" the fantasy trial.
That could be a hint that the relationship is a sham, you know.

- Rosa is alone in the drawing room after the adults have adjourned the meeting. She tiredly ponders her status as the youngest of the family, having the least amount of influence in the conference. She still has the problem of raising 100 million yen in 3 months, which is related to the debt she still has with "that person."
- Kanon arrives and startles her. Kanon asks something about her love problems, which of course puzzles Rosa. Kanon talks about how the debt she owes was cosigned by Maria's biological father. She thinks he heard it from the adults, probably Krauss.
- Kanon asks why she signed the loan despite being intelligent and all. She says it's related to the Ushiromiya family register for the man, who eventually disappeared. She ended up taking care of Maria alone. She says it's ironic how she can forget about this man but his debt remains.
- She talks about how she believed in it due to love, despite learning that she would be lied to and cheated eventually. There seems to be a suggestion that she thinks she can regain that love when the debt is repaid.
- She seems to think that this debt is a trial to gain that love. She doesn't want to throw away hanging on the love.
- I might be misinterpreting this because it's still not clear to me if Maria's father is dead or abandoned them.

>>4111377
- Kanon asks if this is what Kyrie meant to Shannon regarding her nightmarish experience. Rosa says she understands if he doesn't get it, but this is the hell she lived through.
- Rosa likens love to a disease that gnaws at you until you're completely infected. Recallection of Kyrie's 18 year experience. Rosa says Maria is barely nine, not yet half the 18 years Kyrie had to go through.
- Kanon asks if the miracle she wants will happen in 9 years. Rosa talks about being dead, waiting for eternity for something that will never come. She thinks she may have already died that day when he left them. She talks about those days when she was lovestruck with him, when they were fledgling designers and they were dreaming of work in Paris. It would all come crashing down when the truth rears.
- She says those were all just dreams. She talks about the hell of fighting for those ideals and dreams even when it was clear the misery of truth was much too strong. She says she's probably dragging down Maria with her. Kanon wonders if love means crawling through hell if it needs it.
- Zepar and Furfur side scene say love is to fight until you either win and gain it, or lose and die in the process. If you succumb to the fear, you have already lost. George and Shannon agree that there are few things worse than losing the fight for love, but continuing to live with the pain.
- Beato2 thinks of love as a poison that tortures people. She makes a point of this to Beato1, who says she understand what Beato2 means. She understands that this unrequited affection for Battler pains her, and it afflicts her heart.

>>4111383
- A red light slashes through. Kanon releases his red blade. Rosa starts to feel tired and sleepy. She picks up her tea and notices red droplets on the tea.
- Kanon tells her the sofa looks comfy and she should lie down. Rosa now realizes this is blood. She was cut somewhere along the upper part of her head. Rosa collapses dead on the sofa. Kanon says her hell is over.
- Just as Kanon relaxes, he is attacked by reds. Maria arrives and transforms into Mariage Sociere mode. She realizes Rosa was killed by Kanon and starts going apeshit. Even though she would still consider Rosa's bad temper as the black witch of her mother, she still loved her even then.
- During the frenzy Maria doesn't really aim so Kanon manages to evade her. He gets behind her to attack but is blocked by Sakutaro. His red sword vanishes.
- Maria just now notices Kanon. He tries to reignite his red sword but by some decree Sakutaro declares he cannot brandish it. Maria blocks out the room with her magic, locking them both in. Maria talks about taking her time with him.

>>4111377
>>4111383
Damn.

>>4111387
- Maria attacks him but barriers appear. Shannon appears. She says by Zepar and Furfur's decree she appears to help. She blocks more of Maria's attacks as she throws a fit.
- Sakutaro says it is useless as by decree one cannot aim at Maria. Shannon says she's only protective in nature. She creates a barrier and starts expanding it in the room.
- The barrier pins Maria and Sakutaro on the walls. Since Maria locked in the room she can't get out either. Maria says that by making this a locked room it makes a problem for a detective to deny Beato's magic. Maria laughs as Shannon asks for checkmate.
- Maria is crushed on the walls as Sakutaro disappears.
- Kanon thanks her. Shannon tells Zepar that they both finished their trials.
- Zepar and Furfur agree and declare Kanon and Shannon successful. They now say it is Beato1's turn for her trial.

>>4111373
Beato/Battler technically lose as well. I don't think that's much of an indicator.

>>4111377
I still wonder what sort of relationship Kinzo had with Rosa (no rape involved), she has a pretty easy life style, i doubt the money comes from her buisness.
So is Kinzo funding her lifestyle or did Kinzo cut off her cash flow & is she getting the money elsewhere.

>>4111387
>- Maria just now notices Kanon. He tries to reignite his red sword but by some decree Sakutaro declares he cannot brandish it.
His TIP explains that. See OP image.

>>4111396
Well, not explicitly so. Shannon and Kanon have a huge THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE theme going here, specifically with the pistol duel. Oh, and be very much aware, in the scene where Kanon asks Jessica why she likes him, Jessica doesn't say anything.

Contrast with George, who gives tons of awesome speeches, and contrast with Battler, who gives a pretty manly speech on why he likes Beato.

Just saying, the Jessica x Kanon thing is suspect.

>>4111399
she earns money with her design company, just not too much unlike her siblings

>Jessica doesn't say anything.
Stupid angsty bitch.

>>4111419
> Battler, who gives a pretty manly speech on why he likes Beato.

Battler: "Beatrice was a woman who fought with both reason and madness. She always fought no matter what. She made me rage, made me weep, made me feel so many emotions, I can't even describe them. And then, in that very last game. At the very last moment... she won. Completely. But she never had a chance to look at her card before she collapsed. Beato, without ever knowing that she had won... died.

Beato was the one who won that last game. And this is the board she gave me. So I WILL win."

>>4111429
Well sure sucks at winning. The new game master is Bern, and she's going to make the truth be revealed, whether Battler approves or not.

>>4111423
Ok then, do we know who gave her money to start her company (it could be Kinzo) or was it a joint venture with her husband?

>>4111439
Or so Bern & Featherine claim. Batora won't lose.

>>4111440
she says in ep6 that the one who owes her the money is her 'husband' (I think, the duels part was a bit boring). Maybe it was just a loan from a bank, a big one shouldn't be of trouble for someone called Ushiromiya

>>4111429
Yup, that's the one.
But yeah, Kanon and Jessica as a couple have ALWAYS felt odd to me, and episode 6 sure didn't do anything to ease my doubts.

>>4111439
Except Battler _did_ win at the end of Episode 6.

>>4111457
because it's not normal, she had just become a couple with him in ep6 and started a duel against george and shannon, who were going to get married

>>4111446
Rosa comes across has very lazy & self conscious person but she's actually quite crafty when she wants to be.
She quite clearly lies in EP2.

>>4111482
Rosa is the culprit, remember my words...

>>4111461
Yeah, but he refused to do anything with it. He sat there and pouted because he wanted to protect Beatrice or something, so the game could never continue. Bern is going to rip that power out of his hands, and we might actually have an entertaining game.

>>4111487
She sure dies alot for a culprit. I mean, fuck, she's been the first twilight everytime except episode 2.

My opinion is that in episode 2 she catches on to what is going on, and outsmarts one of the masterminds.

>>4111492
No, I meant after the logic error was resolved.

>>4111521
Her plans always are fucked up, except in episode 2, but she's the one who starts it in all episodes.

>>4111521
I think there is three culprits, Rosa is the back stabber, you have Shannon using the witches epitah & Rudolf.
Episode one is such a blur it's quite hard with such little red text, the most likely suspects die in the first twilight.

>>4111461
And he also win as human side in Ep.4 right? Erika wasn't able to beat Beato's closed room at the end but Bern refused to accept defeat just like Battler did in first 3 games.

>>4111556
No, Episode 4 ended in a stalemate of sorts.

Uryu~

>>4111541
What's your reasoning for suspecting Rudolph?

>>4111589
He's Jack Bauer.

>>4111541
I can't really see anything for Rudolf, barring the way he plays women, but even that's a bit too little.
Three biggest suspects to me are Kyrie, Jessica, and Rosa.

...Which just goes to show you that WHEN THEY CRY in general would be a much better place if all the men became gay and killed all women.

>>4111461
No he didn't. Meo Beato did. Battler got his ass kicked so hard he almost went crazy. And after Erika lost Bern just did the same thing Battler did in most episodes: "fuck you I don't accept defeat".

>>4111589
1. Only direct family member we know little about.
2. Brings up the topic of murders to Battler. If the murders are intended to be a message to him, then it makes sense to make sure he's paying attention.
3. Ange not being on the island. Even if she was sick, I doubt it'd be serious enough to stop her travelling. Either way, given the choice of whether she stays or goes, he can directly influence how many people will be on the island.
4. He's a middle child.

And this has been bugging me since forever.

If there are no witches and magic (not in >>4111272's meaning, "positive thinking or other delusions"), why are we being constantly shown this charade? Is there some deep meaning or are we supposed to enjoy this?

>>4111659
Both.

>>4111659
The better question is, if there are no witches and magic then why does the meta-world exist and the game loop?
And why does Umineko suck so much?

>>4111682
Everything is Battler tripping balls after getting his hands on Kinzo's absinthe and passing out

>>4111682
- everything is a fiction, different kakeras are different novels, the meta-world happen on the internet, the human featherince did say that she uploaded all her works on the internet. The meta-world is basically a big RPG on the internet with lots of game of pretend.
And it would explain all the trolling.

-Because R07 sucks at writing.

>>4111659
All those people in that screenshot represent actual people on the island. Figure out who corresponds to who, then keep that in mind whenever you see such a scene.

>>4111635
>Battler got his ass kicked so hard he almost went crazy.
No, he really didn't. Battler held the key to getting out of the room the entire time, he just refused to use it because it would mean exposing the game and hurting the woman he loved.

>>4111659
My guess is that despite what he's said, Battler is still uncomfortable with accepting that multiple people he knows and loves could be sadistic murderers, so he creates these magic actors to recreate the crime so he can distance himself while still feeling he's doing some constructive.

Without love it cannot be seen. When he gets to the point when he can no longer empathise with his family, he'll begin to see them for what they really are.

>>4111697

Or, to put it another way, Bern and Lambda went through torture because they couldn't figure out how to dig themselves out. Battler willingly submitted to torture because, by doing so, he could protect someone he loved.

>>4111682
I can accept meta-world. Maybe some world exists that contains our world, so from it characters are looking at events happening in our world, unable to intervene. It sounds insane but since our world is just as we are used to it without any fairy-tale bullshit, I'm ready to accept it.

>>4111711
Blickwinkel

>>4111695
Umineko RP is canon.

>>4111682
Well, the meta-world exists so we can justify everyone dying so many times. It is the plane on which we view the alternate universes.

>>4111698
There's no need to be this picturesque, this long, is it? Just make seven sisters appear again hand have them slaughter poor people.

If I would be so bold, this is disrespect towards reader. It feels as if I'm supposed to keep attention, but this is too much for me. Not realizing what that hell is happening, having zero sympathy towards events that are happening and still be reading.

I would be happy to read about humans screwing each other on even footing, which I actually assumed Uminkeo would be. But it's not. Fuck!

>>4111739
>>It is the plane on which we view the alternate universes
It really isn't.
Umineko doesn't use alternate universes.

>>4111749
When is that ever stated that it doesn't?
They mention kakera like a million times for a reason, y'know.

Kakera and higher plane beings existed in Higurashi and they also exist in Umineko. Meta world is real, Lambda and Bern are real and so on.

Magic on the game board is just embelishment of truth. Every magical scene is a hint to what really happened. Study battle in Ep.5 showed how that works.

>>4111778
>>4111760
This. Poor Meta-Battler doesn't get direct control of his piece, though.
I hope we get a kakera in which Piece-Battler survives....

There are no alternate universes. Since Rokkenjima is a closed off island, there are unlimited interpretations of what happened there.

>>4111803
Oh god, not this shit again.
Oh, well then, my view is that they all turned into a jet, bombed the russians, and crashed into the sun.

No one knows what happens, so that means it could have happened, right?

>>4111778
>Magic on the game board is just embelishment of truth.

And it is there to confuse the human side. If everything was just shown as it really was human side would win with ease.

>>4111803
But doesn't that mean that Eva survived the events of Rokkenjima?

>>4111812
I, for one, prefer the theory where they all survived and went into hiding in Hawai'i.

>Shannon=Kanon=Beato
Fuck me, do you honestly believe this shit?
Genji has a bigger chance to be the true culprit - I mean, he has fucking assassin skills.

Until R07 confirms this, I will call all of you retarded.

>>4111803
One thing: Eva. Sorry but there is not just one Rokkenjima.

>>4111821
2ch believes it too.

>>4111821
Yeah, what kinda series would make three characters, with one of which being the opposite sex, the same person?

>>4111834
Nah, half of 2ch still believes in Jessitrice. They just love their incest.

>>4111834
And? So?
2ch are the same losers as us, thus, their opinion isn't better in any way.

>>4111839
As I've said - until R07 confirms that Shanon=Kanon=Beato, I will continue saying that this theory is retarded.

>>4111821
>As I've said - until R07 confirms that Shanon=Kanon=Beato, I will continue saying that this theory is retarded.
So what's your theory? For the closed room in episode 6

>>4111849
Someone posted that in his latest interview he had told something about it, bad

>>4111865
the how come Erika didn't find anyone in the room, she's the detective, Kanon (or whatever personality he has) can't just go playing with her that way without Erika noticing

>>4111870
You mean, he said that it was retarded, or approved it?
It's an odd spot for me. Shannonkanontrice basically proves my theory that Jessica is a culprit, and yet I do think it's fucking stupid, because I get the image of Kanon running back and forth, frantically putting on new disguises.
But. whatever, I'll just chill and see what happens.

>>4111842
I can't blame them. I'd rather have THAT than Shannonkanontrice. Heck, I can see Shannon = Kanon, but having more than one split personality reminds me of Spiderman's clone war saga.

>>4111865
Haven't played episode 6 yet, but I can still tell that this theory be retarded.

My personal feelings? Genji is the culprit. But I wont go around stating that this is the truth.

>>4111882
Do be aware that being the detective does not give you a guaranteed natural 20 on your spot check. It helps, but if you are clever enough you can fool the detective.

>>4111918
Erika isn't that good of a detective in the first place anyways.
She breaks down too easily and stops thinking. Her missing an important point wouldn't surprise me at all.

>>4111916
The butler did it, eh?
I don't know, Genji really isn't a fleshed character, if you suspect him you have to suspect him in the same way you suspect Nanjo - An accomplice, but certainly not the mastermind.

I say this a lot, and it deserves to be said again and again. Umineko comes very close to real life occultism. So close it cannot be coincidence. Then again, when dealing with people who can manipulate fate, coincidence is a very loose term...

If you don't plan on studying the occult yourself, think of it this way: A compromise between mystery and fantasy is very possible and even likely. If anything, this compromise is the goal of the story. Magic can be thought as self-delusion, but on a different perspective it is advanced self-control to the point that one can control their environment.

Think back through the mysteries with a few things in mind... Magic exists, but is not capable of injuring people directly or summoning anything physical that is capable of that. However, anyone with magical power(Consider who might have magical power, as well) can manipulate fate and chance(luring them out of a barricade), plant ideas and inclinations in subconscious minds(Final sigil, anyone?), and other such less-than-physical things. The mystery becomes a lot clearer.

>>4111932
His backstory is a mystery, and throughout the series he is shown to have skills that are very similar to that of an assassin.
I just suspect him though - as you've said, not fleshed out enough, which leaves a lot of room for theories.

>>4111937
What he said.

Suggested easy readings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Witchcraft

>>4111937
> plant ideas and inclinations in subconscious minds
Hypnotism?

>>4111955
Ah, no. Freaking Occultists creep me out.

>>4111955
On a not-wicca approach, I found Liber Null and Phil Hine's work to be fairly easy to understand, though not a comprehensive beginner's guide(but really, what on it's own is?).

>>4111976
Low-end long range hypnotism. Decent way to think about it, I guess. Though remember that some people would have different resistances to it - Battler, for example, with his thick head would be nearly impossible to influence. If you want to stretch the definition, think of that as a way to communicate long-distance with other magically inclined people on the island.

>>4111976
No.

Citing Gardner in Witchcraft Today:

Witches did cast spells, to stop Hitler landing after
France fell. They met, raised the great cone of power and directed the thought at Hitler's brain: 'You
cannot cross the sea,' 'You cannot cross the sea,' 'Not able to come,' 'Not able to come.' Just as their
great-grandfathers had done to Boney and their remoter forefathers had done to the Spanish Armada
with the words: 'Go on,' 'Go on,' 'Not able to land,' 'Not able to land.' Is that allying themselves with
the King's enemies? I am not saying that they stopped Hitler. All I say is that I saw a very interesting
ceremony performed with the intention of putting a certain idea into his mind, and this was repeated
several times afterwards; and though all the invasion barges were ready, the fact was that Hitler never
even tried to come.

>>4111978
Even though I suggested Gardner, I blatantly admit that almost any other author writes better than him, what ever approach it may be. Although Gardner's books are piss easy to understand and you'll grasp the concepts of witchcraft and (as with hislater looks) wicca, they are also very frustrating to read and he loves to weasel out his way. See: >>4112037

>>4111978
This book was a fun read and oh god I wish magic was real and this shit actually worked ;_;

>>4112057
I meant weasel his way out of reason, or however you should word that sentence, I suck at english. You get what I mean.

>>4112037
Yes, and I if I stab my own wall, to win the lottery, can I say I won the lottery by stabbing my wall? Of course not.

It's a term that any third rate logician would use, it's called "irrelevant correlation."

Just because you do one thing, doesn't mean it has any relation to another thing.

In Indiana, for example, the price of cheese increased 10%, and crime went down 7% over 10 years.

This doesn't mean crime went down because the price went up.

>>4112071
That's exactly the thing. That's why we don't believe in the supernatural or magic. And even though I am fascinated by the occult, I reject anything without a rational scientific explanation.

HOWEVER. If you accept the existence of witchcraft, as occult books assume its readers do, my citation in >>4112037 would be convincing to those people.

>>4112090
Yeah, I know, but for Umineko to have magic exist on the game board, it makes it impossible for anyone to solve it.

Because, I could just say that Gohda teleported all over the place and killed people, and thus I would "solve" the issue.

Basically, the gameboard CAN'T have magic, because it's akin to enabling you to write APPLE on a math test and get everything right. Magic has no set rhyme or reason to it, and as such we wouldn't be able to come to any answer.

>>4112058
You should try it. You never know what might happen.

>>4112112
I refer you to
>>4111937
Magic can exist on the board without making the mystery pointless.

>>4112125
No, it honestly can't exist. How do we define what magic is allowed and what isn't?
Like, mind control is not allowed, but telepathy is? There's nothing to us where we can draw the line, and because of the ambiguity of magic in general, we have NOTHING concrete to fall back upon if magic is allowed.

>>4112118
>>4112058
I should try reading that too, but it's probably some lame tree-hugging magic best suited for soccer moms wishing their kid's team a win or something.

Or *google* maybe it's about chaos magic. Who knows.

>>4112125
No, that's bullshit. In umineko, the witches clearly state that magic can do anything they want it to--the only limit is the magic-resistant toxin.

>>4112155
My girlfriend's mom is a wiccan.
It's freaking hysterical.

>>4112167
>girlfriend

>>4112145
RO7 decides what magic can and can not happen in his world. If we take the general direction he's headed in -which I think is close to what I posted- then we have an idea of what to use in solving the mystery.

>>4112155
reading now..
http://www.archive.org/details/LiberNullAndThePsychonaut

>>4112158
The witches also clearly state that they can turn into butterflies and teleport around. Really, though, do you *believe* them?

>>4112176
Oh, bullshit, what are you, a direct link into his mind? Yeah, no, how bout you don't pull stuff from your ass?

>>4112176
In the sense that the magic can be interpreted as a metaphor for a real-life explanation, yes.
In terms of a constant theory of magic, bullshit. Their magic has no limits or rules other than the toxin.

>>4112187
Yeah, I'm not convinced we can allow magic on the gameboard either. Although, Piece Battler turning into the Endless Sorcerer and whoever the fuck corresponds to Beato turning into Beatrice fighting off an actual magical threat after a GOOD END would be fuckawesome.

>>4112187
I'm just saying, it doesn't have to be pure magic or pure fantasy. There shouldn't be a "camp one vs. camp two" feeling when solving a mystery, that just excludes possible solutions. And I've come to the thought that RO7 is going for a balance.

>>4112222
It's not a camp one versus camp two kinda deal.
Everyone accepts magic, we accept that Beatrice is a witch, we accept that Meta-Ange got torn to death by red hot pinchers, we accept that magic can exist.

However, on the gameboard, we don't accept that the truth of the matter is that Eva turned into Eva Beatrice and crushed everyone with a cake. The truth has no magic to it, magic is a riddle, to be explained by what actually happened, strictly on the gameboard, of course.

The fact that we see so many different gameboards is magic, but on the board themselves, there is no magic.