/jp/ - Otaku Culture

fuck you're toohoo

You rang?

>>4083383
CLANK CLANK

Best character in Umineko.

>>4083404
me on bottom left

Too bad she's dead

>>4083415
Nobody dies in Umineko.

>>4083383

My favorite CHARACTER in Umineko is Dlanor A. KNOX. Because she's a KID who likes SWEET things and fights against all EVIL.

>>4083364
Someone explain why she has a pistol, I thought EP5 had her wrecking shit with a sycthe.

>>4083422
-desu.

>>4083427
No scythes or swords
Nobody but Erika, Battler and Beatrice
Pistols only

FINAL DESTINATION

>>4083427
pistols are moe

>>4083427
because it's poetic to have a magical being wield an anti-magic weapon

>>4083419
Well no one except Erika.

>>4083449

>child brides

>>4083449
She'll come back. They always come back.

>>4083449

That's awesome. Glad to see her gone.

Erika couldn't get shit done without Dlanor. She's only good because she causes Bern to flip a shit at the end of episode 6.

>>4083467

Why would she? She was a shitty detective shoehorned in who had nothing to do with the story.

>>4083467
Yeah, Moon-chan will fill our void for psycotic bitches who kill people.

>>4083480
because popularity

>>4083449
>completely disappears

>>4083496
Jesus fuck, dude, she had no redeeming qualities about her whatsoever. I'm just glad she didn't drag Dlanor into her final stand.

Her part in the story is over. Wouldn't make sense for her to be back; at most maybe they will show some Kakera where she didn't fall from her boat and didn't become as annoying as the fanfic writers thought she was.

>>4083519
Well, too bad she's a pervert.

>>4083449

You now realize how fucking ridiculously long her legs are

>>4083488
You can never have enough of them, you fool!

Why couldn't Battler and Beatrice die instead? They suck.

>>4083510
She DID pseudo rape Battler with the wedding ring.

Oh Ryuu, you card.

>>4083510
I like her. Not all characters must be rosy and sunshiny and frankly with the "WITHOUT LOVE IT CANNOT BE SEEN" bullshit we needed a character to shit in their collective cornflakes. Her loyalty to Bern is admirable and from what I hear she had a last stand without including her subordinates.

>>4083557

No

>>4083557
0/10.
Besides, without Battler and Beatrice, who could Erika troll?

I can't believe Ryukishi killed off one of his Rikas for good.

>>4083565
Natsuhi.

>>4083565

Erika is a shit troll. She could never last against full powered Beatroll

>>4083567

He didn't. She was just never there to start with.

>>4083567
You really think she's dead for good? You probably thought Ange was dead for good, too.

>>4083561
RAPE! ALWAYS THE BEST SOLUTION!
IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR KINZO, IT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME! TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT "RAPE" TODAY!


Warning: Raping someone, specifically your servant and grandaughter, may result in dementia, insanity, sociopathy, deception, odd urges to create elaborate murders, and general mind-fuckery.

>full powered Beatroll
durrr I need power to use my brain. Beatrice sucks, the way she lost in ep 5 was so damn pathetic, I didn't even care that she died. Watching Erika ruin her and Natsuhi was fucking awesome.

EP6 stream starting up again. /teapartyofcertainty/old

>>4083592

>>4083586

Erika serves no purpose in the story, other than to tell faggots you shouldn't think like she does. Ange is a bit different.

>>4083590
See, can't we just have Moon-chan be evil and Shannon be crazy due to other means? Why must it come down to KINZOOOOOOOOOOOOHDESIREEEEEEEEEEE

>>4083415
>>4083383
>>4083404
I think... No... I reason that you need a healthy dose of reason, anonymous!

>>4083592

Don't lie anonymous. I know you cried.

>>4083613
I reason that your reason is dead.

>>4083592

>>4083590
I hope you're trolling.

Blarg, I'm ded.

>>4083645
And there was much rejoicing!

>>4083654
There was no rejoicing. Everybody loves Erika

>bawww they don't like the same characters i do
Seriously, why is there so much character-butthurt in this thread?

>>4083659
Depends. Rifyu's Erika? GOD-TIER.
ACTUAL Erika? Annoying.

>>4083561
I'd let her pseudo rape me, if you know what I mean.

>>4083645
Dat song, dat scene.
BAAAAAAAAWWWW

>>4083685
MANLY TEARS

>>4083667
So I see she wasn't lying when she said she was an intellectual rapist.

>>4083685
What song do they play? Link plox?

>>4083689
The twintails under the wedding veil is just too cute.

>>4083708
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fnZJNeCAGQ

>>4083732
Kind of ironic that they used that song, considering it's about Maria.

>>4083745

It's the ED song I think. That's not really a sad song...

"From foot alone, making men orgasm is possible for this detective, Furudo Erika. What do you think everyone?"

The gathered crowd was stunned into silence as Battler came helplessly into Erika's stockings. She had summoned everyone with the detective's authority, and they could only watch.
Her perfectly constructed footjob had no flaws. Dlanor had ensured that there were no possible exits. And although it completely violated the mood of the situation, there was no one present that could deny the elegance of her argument.

When Battler cried "it's useless!" at the point of orgasm, Erika knew the sanctification of having done a <Good> job.

>>4083659

Nobody loved her and then she died. Isn't it sad?

Alas poor Scrapp- I mean poor Erika.

>>4083754
By the way it's the ED song for the game.
For the ???? the ED song is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcK9x24prIM

>>4083754
It is if you know the lyrics.

...Which reminds me. Anybody have the lyrics for ウサンノカオリ? I wasn't really interested in them until it also played at the end of Episode 6.

>>4083782
(Rather, at the end of the EP6 ???.)

>>4083775
Back to TVtropes with you.

>>4083754
The song was originally put in one of the previous Umineko soundtracks called "Observer Witch who Lives". I was actually surprised that they used a song that's already out rather than composing a new one, but I can't really complain about their choice of songs, since I liked it before it was played in EP 6.

>>4083780
Oh U!

>>4083795
What? No, that's the Pre-holder album. Birth of a new witch is from the Circletempo album called Ougon Syndrome. (As is the song used at the end of the EP6 ???, for that matter.)

>>4083782
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9266802
has the lyrics

>>4083793
Well, someone had to do it.

>>4083795
Well, they used Tsubasa for the ending to Episode 5, but that's OK because Tsubasa is awesome.

>>4083817
No, not really.

>>4083803
Err, right. Sorry, I thought it was Observer without checking properly.

>>4083829
No, they used TSUBASA, a.k.a. Tsubasa (ver. hope), which if I'm not mistaken was only released on musicbox Blue (which was released at C76, same as Episode 5.)

>>4083830
Yes, really.

>>4083836
And, hell, the version included in the in-game OST is the short one; musicbox Blue has the long version.

>>4083836
Oh, I thought Musicbox Blue was released before that for some reason...

Erika is not dead guys, she is just vanished from existance forever.

Don't mind me. Just posting Ponyo.

>>4083851
;_;

She was actually a good waifu, Battler just couldn't appreciate her!

>>4083815
And now I want this translated...

I haven't been keeping up with spoilers. But wait what? Erika was defeated by Battler and destroyed? I thought Ryukishi said Erika wasn't a bad girl. Why would Battler do that?

>>4083866
Because Battler is an asshole.

It's just like the new grimdark Ryukishi to kill off one of the very few amusing characters this story has.

I'm sure he had to erase her from the equation so he could include more romance scenes.

Oh, and maybe get around to the mystery, if he feels up to it.

>>4083866
She cut the heads off of five people to make sure they were dead, because she had chosen not to take the detective authority for that game. And then she took up the detective authority and stated in red that they had all been alive when she killed them.

>>4083870

She wasn't amusing. She was an annoying cunt.

>>4083866
I'm guessing you missed the part where she decapitated 5 people.

>>4083866
Either what >>4083869 said, or Ryukishi is a lying jew.

I for one opt for a "Both" answer.

>>4083866
Ryukishi lied Erika died

>>4083866
Because she killed his family when they still alive

>>4083873
Doesn't that break Knox in half and fuck it in the ass? While she wasn't the detective when it happened, the detective can NEVER be the culprit; she was the culprit and the detective later so wtf?

Ryukishi was trolling. She really was bad.

>>4083880

She did more than just that

Actually that was the best part. Erika going batshit and chopping heads and mutilating them afterwards just to be sure that victims were dead. And goldenslaughterer was playing. Best scene hands down.

>>4083866
Because she raped Battler. Well, only intellectualy. On his finger.

>>4083879
Anonymous cried

At least I did ;_;

>>4083886
>Ryukishi
Leave your logic at the door, we're seriously discussing a maid having three or more personalities, and killing an entire family.

>>4083880
That's even more heinous than killing them while they're dead!

>>4083886

Basically she has no point in the story ever. Even things in ep. 5 you can't trust when she was a detective. Waste of time.

>>4083880

>>4083886
I guess it's more properly stated as "the detective can't commit crimes". So she can commit crimes when she isn't a detective.

>>4083899
Erika will never intellectually rape your finger ;_;

>>4083909
Maybe Ryukishi decided to take people's concerns about Rika stealing K1's protagonist status in Higurashi so he decided to do the opposite with Erika. Make her incredibly incompetent and useless as even a side character even though she presented herself as the protagonist.

>>4083926
Actually, Erika's purpose is to show that anti-fantasy vs. anti-mystery is stupid and you should feel bad for blindly taking sides (assuming you did so).

>>4083926
>>4083937
I think its both of these, personally.

I just like Erika's character design though. As another anon described her, she looks like "a cake with blue hair".

>>4083951
...She really does.

>>4083937
Well, what's changed these days since Erika? Nothing, nothing at all. Even though we no longer label ourselves anti-fantasy or anti-mystery like a bunch of retards, we still make up retarded theories such as Shkanontrice which will likely be true to explain Umineko. And hey, what do you know, that was a popular theory back when anti-fantasy vs anti-mystery was all the rage.

Nothing has changed. I don't know what kind of point R07 was trying to make but he failed.

>>4083951
You are now realizing that half the witches in Umineko resemble cakes.

>>4083951

She served her purpose, but I'm not gonna cry for her and I don't want her back.

>>4083964
Without love, you won't gobble up all of Ryukishi's convoluted shit.

>>4083964
That's because making theories is fun. There are still a bunch of anti-fantasy people though; these are the people who completely dismiss any fantasy scene as a "THAT NEVER HAPPENED" as opposed to "Why am I being shown this?"

The stories in the bottles in 1998 described pretty much what we read, magic and all. Personally I think the real mystery of Umineko is the who and why behind the bottle messages.

>>4083985
What kind of author who expects his readers to love him would make an amazing perverted character and then kill her off instead of giving her a chance to go proper old-school Battler on the sorcerer one? What a troll.

>>4083964
I think the point was it's wrong to just take the series, dissect it, and analyze it, instead of enjoying the series for itself as well.

>>4083995
Preaching to the choir.

>>4083994
That reminds me, was it said that Hachijou had found more bottles and used those to base her stories off of, or did she come up with Episodes 3-6 all on her own?

>>4083999
Truer words were never spoken. So let's all just accept Shkanontrice because that was what was made clear and obvious to us in Ep6. No use trying to find a deeper meaning or additional hints to anything. Just swallow the shit you're given and enjoy.

>>4083995
Summary of Erika's character: I'm a huge bitch because of relationship I fucked up myself.

Yeah. Not awesome.

>>4084010
She is such an insert author character that she figured out the mystery with just the first two episodes and then wrote episodes herself keeping to that truth and changing details.

Though supposedly she sees EP3 and beyond through Battler's eyes. Or something.

>>4083999
But I'm pretty sure this series was about a guy who wants to prove witches and magic doesn't exist so he can figure out who killed his family and why and then go home so he can chill with his sister. But now it's just about magic and love and witches and multiple personalities and some shit.

>>4083999
The problem with that is, dissecting and analyzing a story is the crux behind mystery stories.

Mysteryfags such as myself actually enjoy that part the most. Love drama isn't my cup of tea, so I really couldn't give a fuck what happens in the meta world, just give me the puzzle pieces so I can wrap my mind around them, that's my idea of enjoying a story.

>>4084020
Indeed. I think when R07 said that Erika wasn't a bad girl, he thought everyone hated her. Then when he realized that everyone liked her, he decided to make her completely unlikable.

Well played.

>>4084025
You forgot that she's also Super Hanyuu.

>>4084025
Hachijou is possibly the first magical human character. SORTA LIKE HANYUU IN HIGURASHI AMIRITE

In the game she states that she sees the kakera of the games and then writes out the stories in her human form, with the hopes of letting out the truth. Although everything is pretty crazy fucked up - when she meets Ange in EP 6 its the day before Ange goes to Rokkenjima, where she is apparently killed by Kasumi or whoever. Yet Ange seems to remember giving Sakutaro to Maria in the golden land.

>>4084016
I think you are going to the extreme Erika is supposed to represent. While it's good to analyze it, it's not good to just stay with the parts you separated while ignoring the overall story. Like, some people go "let's figure out how the murders really happened" while ignoring the fun magic battles as "not real, distracting, fuck off!". Or "let's see how the knock on the door happened" while ignoring the conversation and what happened after the knock.

>>4084029
Well that's the idea. Try to enjoy both. The author is trying to break the mold in your head that "mystery story" implies.

>>4084016
This. What we see is what we get, and we've finally solved the mystery and found the truth! I don't see how anyone can complain....

>>4084045
I love Jessica, she should be the culprit just so the clusterfuck that is Umineko goes 100% retarded.

>>4084045
Be quiet, Moon-chan.

>>4084032
This is why mysteryfags will never solve the mystery.

>>4083995

Because she wasn't an amazing character

>>4084052
Her tarot card is the Moon. She may not be the culprit, but she's definitely got something up her sleeve.

>>4084032
Well, according to the author, you are doing it wrong.

Of course, I wouldn't say any author could pressure his audience into liking it in some way... It's basically just his opinion. Though he MAY be saying that you just won't ENJOY it like it should be, it's still his opinion.

In the end if you carefully analyze it, Ryukishi comes off pretty pretentious with the "without love it cannot be seen" and Erika. He is basically telling people they shouldn't enjoy the story their way, but his way.

>>4084039
And at the end of Episode 6, it describes Ange meeting Hachijou as a "miracle", an event occurring that should not have occurred.

>>4083449

>>4084045
cool story moron.

I still think Shkannontrice is too forced on us. My problem is that Ryukishi should only be revealing the real culprit in EP 7 and wrapping things up with EP 8. So why is he revealing the culprit a game too early. In Higurashi he revealed brain parasites in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, but the culprit only gets revealed in Minagoroshi-hen.

>>4084054
>implying Umineko is difficult, rather than painfully retarded

>>4084029

It was never about that. You should have realized Battler thinking all he had to do was prove the witches didn't do it was the wrong way to look at things.

Oh well, mysteryfags will get their satisfaction with Episode 7, when Bernkastel destroys all the illusions and deceptions and rips the raw truth out from inside them.

>when she meets Ange in EP 6 its the day before Ange goes to Rokkenjima

Wait what? So ANGE is still gone then?
Uh... does this mean Ange read EP4? Oh what the fuck, brainfull of fuck, etc.

>>4084072
Can't fucking wait.

>>4084066
If you think Beato is the main culprit you're doing it wrong.

>>4084033

Everyone didn't like her. Ryu just can't say a cute girl is actually evil and a bitch.

>>4084066
>In Higurashi he revealed brain parasites in Tsumihoroboshi-hen

At that time they were 'alien' brain parasites. Turns out they were just regular run-of-the-mill 'make their hosts kill people' brain parasites.

>>4084045
People that subscribe to Jessitrice don't understand the narrative structure of mysteries at all. It's not the "one that you wouldn't suspect" that turns out to be the culprit, unless you're reading something on an Encyclopedia Brown level.

No, the culprit to the mystery is always the most IMPOSSIBLE one. That's why I'm firm in my belief that Beatrice is a person outside of Shannon(/Kanon) or Jessica, because the narrative is trying so hard to make you believe that's impossible while still throwing out hints that exclude them both.

>>4084081
True that. She's sharing the role of culprit with two other personalities.

>>4084072
I hope to fuck you are right, it would be icing on the cake if meta scenes were reduced to less than 10% of the total episode too. I would renew my faith in Umineko, and even buy the damn episode.

>>4084066
> Implying the culprit has actually been revealed, and people aren't just assuming that Shkanontrice somehow means that Shannon and Kanon have to be the culprits and that it isn't someone like, say, Jessica

>No, the culprit to the mystery is always the most IMPOSSIBLE one

Pictured: the culprit.

>>4084083
A brain parasite is a brain parasite - I don't discriminate.

Still my point stands. Shkannon may be an existing factor, but it feels too obvious and forced. It can be used to explain all the murders, but think about this:

In EP 5 you could use Natsuhi to explain a lot of murders as well (especially Hideyoshi) as Erika showed. But she's not the culprit.

>>4084085
>>Implying we think Moon-chan is Beatrice.

Has it been stated that Shannon, Kanon, and/or Beatrice is the culprit? No, it has not. Even if Shkanontrice is true, that does not automatically make them the culprit(s).

>>4084085
>It's not the "one that you wouldn't suspect" that turns out to be the culprit, unless you're reading something on an Encyclopedia Brown level.

Take that back. Bugs Meany is the best culprit of any detective novel.

>>4084087

Meta scenes are the best scenes in the vn. I don't get you fags who hate them.

>>4084091
Another problem with Shkannon is that it doesn't make any sense. Why would the rest of the family go around acting like there are two separate people? You can go on and on about THAT NEVER HAPPENED whenever the detective isn't there, but there has to be a <good> reason for the entire family to be pretending that they are two separate people.

>>4084090
I know you're making a joke, but, no. Gohda falls under the "least suspect" heading, which is why he won't be the culprit.

Look at it this way, why was Kanon chosen as the person that liberated Battler from the closed room, on a narrative level? Because he was one of the people it should have been most impossible for, but had enough unexplained about him that you could swallow it being done by him "somehow."

>>4084091
>Implying Occam's Razor isn't the best way to solve Umineko.

Do you like Ryukishi07?

I've been a big 07th Expansion fan ever since the release of their 2007 VN, Umineko No Naku Koro Ni. Before that, I really didn't understand any of his work. Too dubious, too inconsistent. It was on Umineko where Ryukishi’s presence became more apparent. I think Episode 5 was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding VN, Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni.

Christy, take off your robe.

Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Erica, Bernkastel, and LambdaDelta. You can practically hear every nuance of every troll.

Sabrina, remove your dress.

In terms of locked-room craftsmanship, the sheer mystery writing, this VN hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the disappearance of Kinzo from his study. In this part, Ryukishi addresses the problems of unreliable observers and narration. Battler’s monologue to Beatrice at the end is the most moving scene of the VN, about monogamy and commitment. The scene is extremely uplifting. Their relationship is as endearing and affirmative as anything I've seen in mystery.

Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole.

Ryukishi’s Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially arcs like Onikakushi-hen and Meakashi-hen. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Ryukishi works best within the confines of the mystery genre, than as a fantasy writer, and I stress the word writer.

This is Rudolf, a great, great character, a personal favorite.

Lambda's stream is up

Ep6 anyone?

>>4084087
This so much.

I'm not a mysteryfag but jesus how much of the human world did have we been seeing in these games exactly?

EP 1 was all human world
EP 2 gave a fair balance to both
EP 3 had a bit more meta than human
EP 4 was similar to EP 2 with meta

EP 5 however had shit loads of meta after the 1st twilight. And EP 6 had a ton of it as well. Especially with the multiple layers.

"I heard you like meta, so I put some meta in your meta so you can meta while you meta your meta"

>>4084103
Well, Shkanon is reliant upon Moon-theory in that sense. It would require a secret keeper, of sorts.

>>4084100
I've always felt Ryukishi forced that shit so much. It's like he's been holding a neon sign that says, "LOOK, MAGIC AND SHIT, THIS ISN'T A CONVENTIONAL MYSTERY, AREN'T I CLEVER?"

And the sad truth is, he isn't.

>>4084108
>BattlerxBeatrice
>Monogamy

Hahahahaha. Oh wow.

>>4084108
what am i reading.jpg

>>4084108
I love you.

>>4084115
>Moon-theory

Stop this shit right now

>>4084108
Ha ha ha oh wow.

>>4084100
I don't hate them but fuck I want a little less than them.

Seriously why are characters like Dlanor, who is awesome don't get me wrong, getting so much more developed than the neglected human characters. Fuck she has a more substantial backstory explained than Kyrie or Hideyoshi and the two of them have been around since EP 1.

>>4084128
Need to start combining them.

I support the B0MB Shkannon Moon Pony theory

>>4084128
Clever, whimsical ways of referring to things is the best way to go. Like the naming of Pokemon pairings.

>>4084104
And, of course, all the hints point towards Shkanon in that situation, and if you look back at Episodes 1 through 4, a whole bunch of stuff there hints towards Shkanontrice.

>>4084133

>Implying a portly man who owns a chain of fast food restaurants has a need for character development.

>>4084133

Obviously the culprit Kyrie will go last.

>>4084108

I forget, doesn't he start killing them shortly after?

>>4084139
Indeed. And Kyrie goes without saying.

>>4084134
Hey, Moon-Theory isn't bad. It's just stating that Jessica is a culprit, it doesn't say she is Beatrice, and it doesn't say she is Shkanon.
Pretty much the only attack on it has been that Jessica is a moron, which is precisely what a culprit, moreso one who is using deception, would want people to think.

I'm fine with it, as it's not stupid, just a plain old whodunnit theory.

>>4084144
I would rage like a motherfucker.

OH HEY NO NEED TO EVEN THINK ABOUT THE STORY, WE'LL JUST GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ELIMINATION FOR YOU, REMEMBER TO LOVE ME.

>>4084153

Yes, but the fags saying she has to be suspicious because of her fanart tarot card are fucking stupid. I've yet to her a motive either.

>>4084162
It happened in Higurashi as well.

Jessica is moon in the same way Battler is justice.

>>4084164
The artist isn't an official Umineko artist, but the characterization - card type matchup has been pretty accurate so far.

>>4084168
Meta Battler, not Piece Battler. There's a difference at this point.

>>4084169

Except it doesn't at all. It matches up to what people think might be true because she's so fucking boring, so obviously she's crazy and the culprit. She shows no signs of anything like what people are saying she is.

Did anybody seriously think Takano was the culprit in Higurashi?

Besides her being creepy at times, were there any hints?

Then bam, Takano culprit revealed out of nowhere in game 7, let's explore her traumatic and fucked up past to explain her reasoning.

Takano was an ass pull. Umineko's culprit will also be an ass pull.

>>4084175
I wasn't talking about Jessica's card, I was talking about all the other cards.

>>4084174
In what way is Meta-Battler justice?

Hey guys, remember magical corrosion? Remember when Ronove and Virgillia were secretly rooting for Battler to make that shit go away? RK sure doesn't. As a matter of fact, I don't know why they brought that up at all, when all it does it give mysteryfags more reason to not give a shit about the fantasy scenes.

>>4084164
Well, first off, the fanart is official. R07 approved it and all. It's not random fanwanking, and all the cards have actually fit their meaning. And believe it or not the MOON THEORY thread didn't even have the arcana card, but rather pointed out various oddities associated with Jessica, you can find the thread on easymodo if you want. The moon arcana just kinda sums up her M.O., which is deception on a grand scale. Besides, MOON-THEORY is catchy. I wish I thought of that buzzword.

But as for motives, there's tons of reasons. Disgust with her family, Kinzo being Kinzo, monetary gains, insanity, the options are endless. But do be aware that motives are learned after the who and the how dunnit, simply because you can suspect someone doing something, but to fully grasp their motives you either need a confession or something which shows you their thoughts.

>>4084179
Just let Battler stay with his new wife.

>>4084176
...I did. It wasn't just her creepiness; one thing really made me start suspecting her. Namely, having that bike in her car. I started thinking "Hey, she's acting a whole lot like someone who may have just killed a person". And then there was the whole Takano-notebook thing in the sixth arc.

>>4084180
> Kinzo being Kinzo
OH DESIRE

>>4084179
Yeah, I also like how Endless Nine Battler got slapped or whatever it was with the Siesta's golden thread thing back in EP5.

What was the line when they tried that shit in EP3, "It was like a dragonfly buzzing past him?" It's nice to see that he's apparently getting less awesome as the episodes go on.

>>4084177

Some match, some don't.

>>4084180
This. The official fanart isn't just stuff copied from Deviantart or whatever, it came with dvd releases. R07 approves that shit.

>>4084184

All of those hints are straight up 'Look how fucking obvious this is, are we fooling you yet?" variety.

They don't count.

>>4084164

Her motive isn't hard to come up with.

Alone on an island all the time with overbearing parents who lock you in your room to study all the time, while you still have below average grades. Talking like a boy and probably being made fun of for it. Having asthma so you're unable to join any sports teams. A grandfather who grows more and more delusional who would probably notice that jessica is the only person in the story who looks anything like beatrice.

Being a social failure would probably make you come up with a fantasy world to live in thats more bearable. And if Jessica is in love with battler, but battler won't do anything about it because he's not/wasn't a delusional cousinfucker, than maybe that would make jessica also depressed and lead her into more delusions.

Perhaps delusional enough to come up with a replacement lover in the time battler is absent...?

>>4084180

He doesnt approve shit. He's too busy in his basement playing Touhou

>>4084195
So then Jessica isn't the school council president? That was just a lie?

Fuck, more disappointing than Shkanontrice.

>>4084188
In case you forgot, his magic resistance is based on his level of disbelief. As he gradually started accepting magic, that would of course decrease.

>>4084176
At this point, it's obvious the main mystery in Umineko is who Beatrice is and whether or not the person behind her could be considered the culprit.

The main mystery in Higurashi was how and why the timeloop was repeating, with an only minimal emphasis on crazy bitch Takano. That's why I didn't care when she was revealed as the culprit one way or the other, because that's not where the emotional payoff lay.

>>4084195
>Having asthma so you're unable to join any sports teams.

Wow I forgot she had that. It stopped being mentioned since EP 2? Or was it 3? Or did they finally refer to it again in EP 6?

>>4084195
>but battler won't do anything about it because he's not/wasn't a delusional cousinfucker
Fortunately for Jessica, Battler is plenty delusional now, I smell a good, crazy end on the horizon.

>>4084195
>"Her motive isn't hard to come up with."
>Stupid shit you should be embarrassed to have even typed out.

>>4084206
Did people ever think here was a sole culprit pulling strings and such?

>>4084195

So EP3's flashback meant nothing?

>>4084204
Like I said, less awesome. E9 was his major fucking awesome thing, now he's just a whiny bitch with a golden sword that he doesn't like to use.

>>4084210

It's in her character profile so it's technically mentioned in all games.

>>4084195

Her parents were never shown to lock her in room to study. If anything they are lovable idiots who wanted their daughter to do well. She had good friends at school. I fail to see how she was social failure.

>>4084204
Also, keep in mind that Beatrice was technically controlling the actions of the Siestas in Episode 3. She may have done that to make Battler look better.

>>4084195

Don't forget she has no friends. Her only friend is a servant girl who doesn't even work there every day.

Jessicaculprit is so obvious, let Shkanon be the same person. Doesn't mean they killed anyone. The huge "hint" in EP6 could be Jessica fucking killing Kyrie.

>>4084215
I think you mean Ep2. And yes, it meant nothing. It was just a fantasy scene so we should just ignore it.

>>4084216
I really don't understand why people are claiming Battler is whiny in EP6.

>>4084222
So Jessica never dressed up as Marisa and sing tsurupettan? Fucking bullshit man. I'm not going to believe this shitty theory.

>>4084221

She has friends at school...

>>4084195
Woah, hold on there, that sounds a bit like the Jessitrice theory. But as for me, it just seems like nothing makes Jessica's sketchiness go away. She says Kinzo is clearly alive, and claims to have interacted with him to Battler various times. Considering that Kinzo is dead, we see deception. At first, perhaps one could say that she is cooperating with her parents, but then we get to the situation in episode 4, where her mother is dead, along with most of her family, due to Kinzo. You'd think that she would tell everyone what the deal was with Kinzo if she was helping her parents, but no, she doesn't. She keeps up the facade of Kinzo using magic to kill everyone. And then she makes that phone call to Battler.
Perhaps without that phone call I could understand some of the people who doubt her sketchiness, but that is the straw that breaks the camel's back. She is lying to Battler. And lying for reasons known only to her. Not to help her parents, but to do something. And that deception, that darkness which defines her character, is why I think Moon-theory is somewhat valid.

>>4084195
Whether or not Jessica was in love with Battler in the past is a moot point, as Episode 6 disproves Jessitrice due to the simple fact that Battler said he likes girls with personalities like Jessica's, so if Jessica was the one who created Beatrice, there would have been no need for her to give Beatrice a different personality. Yet the person who created Beatrice specifically said that they were giving her a new personality.

...Beatrice.
Listen carefully.
I will turn over my love for Battler to you.
Become the woman Battler desires.

I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
I will give you the new personality he desires.
And... In place of me, love him.
And if possible, be loved by him.

I can no longer love him.
The feelings I could not obtain...the feelings I could not bear...please obtain them.

From this day forward, you are no longer the phantom of Rokkenjima who only plays tricks.
From this day forward, you are the ruler of Rokkenjima, and the one who waits for him to return until he fulfills his promise.

From this day forward, you will inherit that in my place.
Thus, from this day forward, you are no longer me.

I will push all of my suffering on to you... Please forgive me for being the only one to become happy.

From this day forward, you have the qualifications to detest everything.
You are the Golden Witch, Beatrice.

And someday.
Destroy everything, revive everything.
...Bless all lovers.

At that time.
...For both you and I to find happiness together...I will be wishing for from the bottom of my heart.

From this day on, you are not me.
From this day on, I am not you.
We will divide one soul, and share.
That naturally won't fill up one soul, but. (? not 100% sure about this line)
Surely it will allow (us/you/me? no subject defined) to see more dreams than a person.
May we be blessed...
My cute Beatrice...

>>4084215
Jessicafags should be using EP2 flashback more often, after all, she's the bitch who first mentioned creating different personas inside yourself, to Kanon no less.

>>4084219
Endless Nine also reappears in EP 5 however. When he gets serious the barrier appears.

>>4084221

She "killed" Kyrie and had to be "possessed" to do it while bawwwwing about it after. If anything what Shannon did was a whole lot more suspicious.

>>4084230

What the fuck is the moon theory

At any rate, Jessica OBVIOUSLY killed George in EP4. Of her own will.

>>4084222

Gosh, I should probably re-read the earlier episodes again. Could have sworn the Tsurupettan scene was in 3.

>>4084237
Maybe having Siesta 00 there causes 45 and 410 to be braver, then?

>>4084241
Moon theory = JESSICA IS FUCKING SKETCHY AND IS POSSIBLY THE CULPRIT

>>4084238
Well, Super Hanyuu did say Battler's game board obfuscated the truth.

Not that I like Jessica culprit theory, it's just slightly better than Shkannontrice.

>>4084238
I actually heard it was more along the lines of an envy power-up rather than straight up posession. But fantasy scenes are tricky to ascertain what they actually mean, if anything. I wouldn't count it one way or the other.

>>4084222
>It was just a fantasy scene so we should just ignore it

>>4084221
>Jessica has no friends

Wrong. Go reread EP 2. All of Jessica's friends fangirling about Kanon and playing with her in the band. Jessica is the class president - she's suppose to be popular.

>>4084242
Here's a primer.

Ep1: Welcome to Rokkenjima
Ep2: teenage love drama
Ep3: Eva angst
Ep4: Ange borefest

>>4084251
Yeah, it wasn't really possession; it was more Jessica going into Terminator-mode, so to speak.

>>4084254

Yes. She's the popular rich pretty girl in school. Where the fuck did Moonfags get that she wasn't.

>>4084254
Stop trying to sabotage those wonderful potential motives for Jessica by bringing up things like that. Besides, it was already explained. It was just a stupid fantasy scene.

>>4084260
Who said that's what Moonfags think?

...Goddammit, what's next? Sunfags?

>>4084176
what are you talking about? I suspected her from the 2nd arc and was sure she was the culprit from the 3rd arc. Higurashi really wasn't that hard.

ShKanon culprit fags:

How did Jessica know how George died AND know where his test was?

I say: She killed him. She's the mastermind. She physically appears as Beato later. She was never confirmed dead. She was never confirmed to have her head "split open". It was all bullshit she spoon-fed to Battler.

And Shannon visably died in this arc. Well before all the murders stop. EXPLAIN THIS FAGGOTS,

>>4084261

Stop ruining your theory with facts you mean?

>>4084253
Hey, hey, I'm just trying to be civil here. I could just be blunt and say it was Jessica going into Terminator mode, she must be the culprit!, but I care not to deal with fantasy scenes not due to insignificance, but rather due to it's subjectivity. By no means less important, but it's more of a tool of the author than a tool of the reader.

>>4084255 Eva Angst

Christ, how did I forget that?

>>4084241 What the fuck is the moon theory

People believe Jessica is the culprit due to her Tarot card being the Moon.

>>4084263

Read above. Moon-chan has no friends She was lonely and raped and hates her mean family so she killed everyone.

>>4084261
Because of Shkannon? Just because they're disguised doesn't make it fantasy automatically.

Plus fantasy scenes don't show up until the gameboard appears. Only exception is Natsuhi because she's proven delusional.

>>4084268
> She physically appears as Beato later.
No, in all likelihood that would have been Shannon. Or rather, the Beatrice personality, after the Shannon and Kanon personalities "died"/were "killed".

>>4084269
Be fair, the moon theory never specified a certain motive. That poster was just bringing up a possible one, among many.
And quite personally, friends who appear in that brief tsuru-pettan scene do not indicate that she is fulfilled socially, but that's really a moot-point.

>>4084268
>And Shannon visably died in this arc.

Battler found Jessica's and Shannon's corpses after he met with Beatrice.

>>4084283

You need a motive

>>4084276
Please stop saying that is what Moon-Theory is, because it is not. Moon-Theory, at it's core, is due to Jessica's sketchy behavior in game, not due to any thoughts of Kinzo raping her, or lack of friends. Geez, you guys sure like to take one thing and generalize, what part of
>>4084247
don't you get?

>>4084260

I'm starting to feel like the majority of this VN is one stupid fantasy scene if things like Shkanotrice are allowed to be.

O wait...it is. nvm.

>>4084292
Motive? Motive's for sucker detectives. Great detectives like Erika corner the culprit first and then force them into divulging terrible secrets about their past.

We don't need motive to find out the true killer.

ITT: People who hate Shkannontrice are now forcing Jessimoon down everyone.

You know I might as well make a culprit theory for Kyrie because she was the High Priestess or how Kanon can't be the culprit because he's the Hanged Man!

>>4084268
I'm also certain Jessica killed George, but the "Moon Theory" has a lot of holes in it. She's at least an accomplice.

Battler did confirm her death, and it's head split open condition in the Tea Party, though.

>>4084310

I hate both theories.

>>4084310
I, for one, am fine with having both theories. After all, they actually work pretty well together, as long as you accept that Shkanontrice doesn't necessarily have to be the culprit.

>>4084310
I support both theories.

>>4084260

when we found out that you can't trust anything that isn't said in red, and isn't seen from battler's point of view. and even that last part is questionable.

so basically, everything can be bullshit at this point, so why not think that we were just led to believe she was class president and natsuhi was pta president? we know atleast one of them has delusions.

>>4084281
But then how did she die back where Battler found her in the tea party? If I recall correctly, half her face was destroyed.

And if you say shotgun, fair enough, but Battler would have to be an idiot to miss the firearm at her feet.

>>4084323
>you can't trust anything that isn't said in red,

Since when? Did you even read ep. 5?

>>4084292
Once again, motive can be Kinzo being Kinzo, it can be disgust with her family, it can be a plot with Nanjo to gain money, it can be many things. But as I've insisted on saying, many times, the motive will never be clear until after you catch the culprit. Even my favorite detective, Hercule Poirot, could only guess what the motive was, but he would find the culprit based on the culprit's inconsistent actions, and then learn, from the culprit or from others, what the motive was.

View it like this: You see a person attempting, or setting up plans to kill a person, do you know why? Naturally you don't, but you know the who and you the how. To know the why you'd need to read his mind.

Ergo, I say the motives can be many things, but the why is not something that can be reached first.

>>4084308
It's like that retarded CSI: Miami. David Caruso's character presents a little evidence, and then the culprit breaks down and explains it all for him.

>>4084310
> You know I might as well make a culprit theory for Kyrie because she was the High Priestess
...Or you could make a culprit theory for Kyrie based on a lot of other, more significant reasons. her position as High Priestess just confirms what we already know: that she's really fucking smart and probably knows a lot more than most people on the island.

>>4084310
Oh, please, shut up you troll. I've said time and time again that Moon-Theory is not based off of the tarot card, and explained the basis of it, so if you are going to continue to treat the people who endorse it as strawman we really won't get anywhere. And, actually, fyi, moon theory works well with Shkanontrice.

>>4084328

since it was said IN RED.

and if you want to be a stickler, ericas POV as well. sorry for not mentioning that part bro.

>>4084329

So basically you have no real motive, but you do have a tarot card. You also have some strange behavior in ep. 4 that can be explained pretty easily.

The Moon isn't always represented with negative emotions. It can represent creativity (via Jessica's singing career) and intuition. Hell, musicians, artists and poets are associated with this card.

>>4084347

>Jessica's singing career

>>4084347
Hey you. Stop that. We already proved that Jessica's singing career is a lie and so the moon is associated with her because she's evil.

>>4084346
>You also have some strange behavior in ep. 4 that can be explained pretty easily.
I'd love to hear this, she was definitely an accomplice at the very, very least in 4.

>>4084346
Oh, really, do explain it. Tell me why I am wrong, go ahead. Show how her actions can be "easily explained". And you insist on the fact that we believe in it because of a tarot card, and I've told you we don't. Why do you continue to say this? Do you enjoy painting your opponents as one dimensional morons?

>>4084347
Actually, to be fair, the moon tends to be associated with deception. A cursory google search of the moon arcana had a bunch of sites tell me that the moon is pretty bad to get.
Oh, and I doubt they made Jessica the moon because of tsurupettan.

>>4084363

Well, the not telling about Kinzo thing can be explained. The phone call not so much.

>>4084368

Mostly people are trolling you for the dumb ass name and using the tarot card in any way. Take your clues from the vn and leave it at all.

>>6

guys guys if you stop trolling eachother we might be able to actually get somewhere

.>>4084231

You make a good point, but I'd like to try something.

>Battler said he likes girls with personalities like Jessica's

okay. so far so good.

>so if Jessica was the one who created Beatrice, there would have been no need for her to give Beatrice a different personality.

well, maybe she didn't give her a different personality...

>Yet the person who created Beatrice specifically said that they were giving her a new personality.

Well they're giving her a personality atleast. You can't give a 'new' personality to a being that never had an "old" personality.

>I will give you the blonde hair he desires.
>I will give you the blue eyes he desires.
>I will give you the new personality he desires.

If Battler desire's Jessica's personality, who is the only person who could give a being Jessica's personality?

Perhaps if you look at it from the perspective of a Jessica who can't be in love with Battler for whatever reason (being cousins, can't bear her suffering from whatever so pushes her desires onto beatrice so she can live a normal life, etc.)

>>4084418
I doubt even that can be explained, really. But yes, there is substance in what I, and other people in this thread, have been saying, in the end. I just get so annoyed when people think that the Moon theory is the unsubstaniated piece of trash known as Jessitrice, it's facepalmworthy.

>>4084418
Yeah, for me the detailed phone call, and Beatrice on the second floor are the points of interest.

Not to say I think Jessica was Beatrice there, but between Shannon and Jessica, it's hard to believe that Shannon switched clothes, ran out to the well, and offed herself, that's a bit elaborate. Either way though, it's hard to explain how either one blew off half their face, and there is no gun around to show signs of suicide.

>>4084429

you wouldn't make a very good detective. if you are given a clue, it's your job to consider it, even if it doesn't conform to your preconceived views.

>>4084462
I considered it. Took a dump on it. Moved on.

>>4084474

>using the tarot card in any way. Take your clues from the vn

>I considered it.

good job for considering it. why don't you consider letting other people do the same then?

Can we move this to a new thread? We reached the bump limit ages ago.

>>4084498
I like being anonymous and confusing people by answering for others.