/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I was thinking of making a thread just like this, but I thought I'd make it more dramatic.

Who was phone?

Is there really a bomb?

How do you solve a problem like Maria?

>>4063920
And I wouldn't take the image off the first page of "umineko" results from google images, either. That's just, well, not good.

>>4063901
What is it like to tit-fuck a witch?

Ok so...
Who is the culprit?
Where is the gold?
What is Battler's sin?

The biggest mystery is, what will Maria's three sizes be and will she really let Battler touch her breasts?

>>4063937
She should convince him not to wait 10 years.

>>4063935
-Shannon/Kanon. Nanjo, Genji and Kumasawa are her accomplices

-In the passage behind the church, the Taiwan theory is correct.

-Letting the poor Sayo get mindfucked by Kinzo, she disguised as a blond hotness for him, but Kinzo saw her first and thought she was his Beatrice in his craziness.

ShKannontrice isn't real, right?

>>4063966
It's real, sorry.

>>4063901
You know shit, moron.

Shkannon is sure for real at this point.
If Battler wins it will be:
Loli Ange x Battler,

>>4063987
I am OK with this.

>>4063987
It won't be loli-angexBattler

The Ange we see come from the only possible future, it doesn't take place in parallel worlds like Higurashi.
That's the nature of the meta-world.

BattlerxAnge is possible though.

I'd be fine with anything as long as the end was Battler x loli Ange.

>>4064012
Loli Ange is waiting for his brother in every world.
We are not talking about Angeburger.

>>4064012
Isn't it the other way around? Battler x Ange is impossible, but Battler x loli Ange is easy, since there are countless kakera with loli Ange waiting for her onii-chan.

Care to explain the closed room murder with Eva and bathtub Hideyoshi?

>>4064037
Seconding this.

>>4064026
>>4064027
Kakera doesn't mean parallel worlds in Umineko, this isn't Higurashi.
Remember how Ryuukishi said that knowdlege of Higurashi could blind some fans?

Anyways it's pretty much certain that there's only one world and only one truth.

And nothing said that Ange come from the third episode.

>>4064037
>>4064042
EP6 Battler's Closed Room

>>4064037
>>4064042
Kanon is the one who cut it, only Genji was with him.
Make your own conclusion.

>>4064056
What? Even if you say that there's only one world. That just means that there's only one 6-year old Ange waiting for Battler. I don't understand what you're trying to argue here.

Is good ending possible for Erika?

>>4064066
The scenes with Ange we see in 1998 really happened.
Therefore the loli Ange can't be waiting for Battler, because she grew up to be the Ange we know.

But nothing says that Battler really died in the real world either.

>>4064070
maybe for normal erika, but meta-erika has ceased to exist, thank Bern for not helping her when she was losing so much

Such arrogance, to think you've solved anything.

The duel between Kanon and Shanon seems to imply a lot of things.
Just re-read it, and I found this:
Quote:
"A fateful number? What is it?"
"The number that we know very well ... And, from the beginning of this game, it has been repeated over and over again ..."
"That is ... 19"
"... An interesting number ..."

19.
This is, the number indicating the witch, when the illusion of the 19th person can be seen in an island that has no more than 18 people.
This is, the number indicating the time from when this story was born.
This is, the number indicating the time that has passed until this unavoidable today.
And this is, ... the age of the true master of this world.

>>4064070

Erika is nothing more than a plot device used by Bernkastel.
The real Erika is a girl who drew near Rokkenjima at the time everything happened.

Nobody every found her corpse.
And nobody knows what happened during these 2 days.

Therefore it's something similar to Schrödinger's cat, you can't say for sure that Erika didn't come on the island.
And therefore she can be used in one of the fiction about Rokkenjima.

>>4064073
Except Battler, as he was the detective during the 1-4 EP arc, already acknowledges that he has a 6 year old little sister. Not to mention that character exists on the basis that her family never returned. She wouldn't be that specific Ange if her family existed the entire time. In other words, T-T-T-TIME PARADOX.

>>4063965

Actually, yeah. That would work for the letter in Kinzo's study in EP1. I mean, someone would notice one person, so all of them had to be in on it. Still, that leaves me with two explanations for the deaths of Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa. Either they argued over the money or Shannon and Kanon surprise sexed them all.

>>4064058
Simple.
Kanon went to save Battler after Erika broke the closed room with Shannon.
Kanon then hide in the closet and reverted to Shannon or Beatrice.
And she played a game of cat and mouse with Erika.

>>4064089
Natsushi's killed baby.

>>4064097
No.
1986 Battler has a 6 years old little sister, it's a fact
the Battler we see is the personification of this Battler, therefore it's not a lie, it's just part of his "character setting".

What are Bernkastel and Lambdadelta?

>>4064089
soemone's age and birthday is fake

>>4064056
>Anyways it's pretty much certain that there's only one world and only one truth.
Why? Everything I've seen says the opposite.

>>4064120
Miracles of the universe.

>>4064037

I'm not the OP, but I think the whole thing was a sham setup by Shannon and Kanon. If Genji was in on it, the chain must have been broken already, and Kanon only pretended to cut the chain. How hard would it be for him to just nudge the door open with his foot when everybody was a bit too distraught to consider the details?

>>4064123
You looked wrongly then.

>>4064120
They symbolize 2 kinds of readers.
Lambdadelta is the kind of reader who enjoy reading just for the sake of her own enjoyment. Basically she is in it for the ride.

Bernkastel is the kind of reader who only want to solve the mystery of the novel, no matter what.
In a way she isn't enjoying the novel in its fullness, since she is always looking at things too deep.
That's why she has "no love".

>>4064134
That's stupid, Bern is enjoying it more by trying to solve the mystery. Lambda sounds like a casualfag who doesn't like to think. Who are you to say these things?

P0NYB0MB

>>4064134
I call bullshit

>>4064134
They're not readers, they have actual influence on what occurs in the game world.
>>4064115
In episode 4 when Ange's existance was in the process of being denied, she said she came from the world where her family never returned home, in red, in the meta world. I don't see how her same-aged self can exist in the "actual" world.

>>4064141
>>Bern is enjoying it more by trying to solve the mystery
Yeah that's the whole point of the character she symbolize.
And that's why she has no love, she just want to solve the mystery no matter what, to find out the truth, that's her enjoyment.
But she doesn't care if the truth can be very ugly or hurt people.

>>4064153

Are you a retard? Speak coherent english.

>>4064153
>But she doesn't care if the truth can be very ugly or hurt people.
That's the author's problem. You're just talking shit out your ass. What makes you think these things are true? You have no evidence, all evidence suggests the opposite of the crazy things you say.

>>4064149
The meta-world basically symbolize the "review" of the fiction named Rokkenjima.

In it the "readers" can give their own opinion and try to solve the whole thing if they want.
It's basically like a role playing game, the term Game Master isn't used for nothing.

And the fact that Battler exists and can actually acts in this world probably mean something.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually alive in the real world.
Like say, a certain bodyguard, though that's just a supposition.

>I solved 0% of Umineko, real world and meta-world alike.
>Point at me and laugh.


>In the end it was too complex for me, Ryukishi07 is awesome.

>>4064159
You are just delusional, or retarded.
Stop seeing things with your shipper's glass and see things for what they really are.

>>4064176
Aren't you one that's delusional?, showing no evidence what so ever?

>>4064188
There's a lot of evidences in pretty much every episodes if you aren't an idiot.

>>4064171
It is not a review. Beatrice, and many of the witches, including Battler, have said that this is a game. One which can be won by Battler or Beatrice. While you can kind of view it as a "review" for a story, you must also acknowledge that these "readers" are, in fact, not readers, seeing as you have events like Bernkastel injecting an unrelated character who previously did not exist into the game. You also have the scene in EP5 during the window scene where it was said that Lambda most likely prevented the use of certain red truths to prove that Kinzo does not exist (at that time).

This goes against what you claim
>In it the "readers" can give their own opinion and try to solve the whole thing if they want.
This is full blown story manipulation. Rather, instead of being seen as "readers", they're more "writers" who are still bound to an outline, but can work around it. Atleast, using your terms.

>>4064200

>evidences
>idiot

>>4064201
The creator class witches are the writers.

Think of it as a wiki, you have someone who made the content, the creators.
Then you have some people who read the content and judge it, they can also add or remove some things, though they have to follow some regulations.
But they can't touch the source of the story.

The Game Master follows a guideline of "truth" made by the creator and weaves the tale of the episode.

The creators are the ones who know the truth about what really happened on Rokkenjima and are the source of the tales.

>>4064217
I'm sure if you submit this shit as an essay to someone who's never read the VN, they'd lap it right up, but to someone who has it's just ridiculous.

>>4064224
It's not ridiculous since it's very strongly implied in the game itself.
Umineko is obviously a commentary on the nature of mystery fictions.

Look at Au Au in episode 6, Ryuukishi can't be less subtle.

>>4064201
I meant to say "Lambda most likely prevented the use of certain red truths which denied Kinzo's existance", but the message is still clear.

>>4064217
While this, for the most part, seems acceptable. It contradicts one point:

Lambdadelta wants an eternal draw between Beatrice and Battler. She is also not a creator-level witch. She is (as seen in EP 5) a game master for a certain period of time. Regardless, she falls into your category of a "reader" or "judge". However, she also has the power to allow the games to go on eternally (while I'm not saying she will succeed at this, she still has the ability to make it happen).

For the creator class witches to be the writers, this means they can also determine when to stop writing. This, of course, means that Lambda would not be able to control when the story would end, nor would she have the power to force Beatrice and Battler to keep fighting.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that your interpretation is the case. What does this have to do with anything going on in the story?

>>4064235
It's a very, very bad one then.
Ridiculous and tiring.

>>4064241
I never said that Lambdadelta was a creator witches.
The creator witches are MARIA and Featherine.

Maria, and by that I mean someone impersonating her, wrote episodes 1 and 2 letters.

Featherine wrote episode 3 to 6.

Bernkastel and Lambdadelta are voyagers class witches.
They can edit the content in some way, but they can't create it, they aren't the source of the tale.

>>4064251
Blame Ryuukishi, not me.

>>4064266
I never blamed you.

>>4064260
I'm not saying that you said she's a creator. Rather, I'm confirming that we both understand that her intention in this game is to keep Battler and Beatrice playing this game for eternity (and has been doing so thus far).

I'm also confirming with you that, according to what you're saying, for them to continue playing for eternity, creator-class witches would have to continue to create stories for them to "read".

But the problem is: How can Lambda have the power to force them to continue playing if, say, a creator-class witch simply decides to stop writing?

And you also never pointed out how this interpretation changes anything with the main plot of the story.

>>4064289
I forgot to add, but this also contradicts how the entire game world was viewed as a chessboard on multiple occasions. If it were dependant on writers, it would mean that each game is sort of a "one-time-use" gameboard, rather than a board with one truth that can be re-used.

>>4064289
For the eternal draw of Lambdadelta, she just want to continue to enjoy the tale.
And Bernkastel just want to solve it.
A mystery has to be solved, or the readers won't be satisfied, that's how Lambdadelta can force the writer to continue. That's the power that the reader has on the writer in a way.


That's why Beatrice can't win, Beatrice symbolizes the myth of the witch of Rokkenjima in its entirety.
But would you believe in some myth just by reading some books? In the end a fiction can't beat reality.

That's of course by looking at the whole thing without "love", Battler in episode 5 when he realized the truth thought that Beatrice had "won".

And the meta-world is very important to the game, to solve its signification is also one of the goal.

>>4064296
>>4064289
To create their tales, the creators use a guideline of truth that they found out about the real incident.
Basically, not only the true culprit but also the way the characters would behave in such or such situations.

Using these, they create their tales.
Basically "What if" stories, the truth is still there and the characters act the way they are expected to but everything else is up to the writer; but everything has to be consistent and without logical error.

That's how a scenario like episode 4 could be created for example.

>>4064323
Oh and for the Game Master.
They don't write anything, rather they are the one who decide which scenes to show in the particular story they are governing.
The only thing they have to do is to show the truth in some way.

Ok OP, but too many culprits don´t you think? Shannon/Kanon, Kumasawa, Genji, Nanjo... Also

1- Why did Genji Kumasawa and Nanjo do it? You cant just say "money" by the way. This sort of explanation could work well for Kumasawa, but Nanjo and Genji are close friends of Kinzo, and Genji is very loyal, not the kind of person who would murder a whole family.

2- By the way, what about red truth "Nanjo, Genji and Kumasawa are not murderers" ? Kinda of against your theory, unless of course they were just helping, without killing anyone...?

3- Also, in ep3 kanon and shanon died as soon as the game started, bodies of both were found, and no body doubles (disguised bodies) can exist, as stated in Knox rule whatever. So who carried the murders from that point on?

4- Why George jumped out of the window in ep3 ?

5- What is up with Hideyoshi´s cigar or whatever that made Kyrie want to talk to him with Rudolf, also in ep3 ?

5 - What is with Jessica´s and Kyrie´s phonecalls to Battler saying "Believe witches!" in ep4 ? Why did Jessica say "They got me, a wound in my head" or something? How did she know of George´s death? What is with Kyrie saying "There are flying golden things!" ?

6- Why was Maria killed in a different, "more human" way in ep4, when all others were brutally killed?

7- For you, Kannon = Shannon ? How could George and specially Jessica, Gohda, Natsuhi and the people that live with them not realize over MANY years, are they THAT stupid ?

8- Explain the Battler / Kyrie / Asumu / man from 19 year ago conflict, please.

9- Why did the cousins fake their own death in ep5 1st Twilight ?

Like the Knox's rule introduction in ep 2 with Knox's daughter weren't enough of a confirmation.

>>4064368
Meant ep5.

In b4 kyrie_is_the_culprit.jpg

>>4064323
>To create their tales, the creators use a guideline of truth that they found out about the real incident.

I was under the impression that you had claimed that creators are the one who decided the truth.

Also, in >>4064297
>And the meta-world is very important to the game, to solve its signification is also one of the goal.

Except in many cases we have incidents where there's meta-in-meta-in-meta worlds and jumps and interactions between these each meta world.

>For the eternal draw of Lambdadelta, she just want to continue to enjoy the tale.
>A mystery has to be solved, or the readers won't be satisfied, that's how Lambdadelta can force the writer to continue.

In real mysteries, the writer gives the reader a certain amount of time before giving the solution to the mystery. There's nothing forcing the writer to continuously write more and more stories just because the reader does not reach the real truth. In other words, nothing is stopping the writer from simply saying "fuck this, you're pulling my strings" and stopping. Nor is there anything stopping the writer from explicitly stating the truth and ending it there.

>>4064363
I'm not OP and I can answer some of those questions
1- As you said money for Kumasawa ANDN Nanjo, remember he has an ill grandaughter, he didn't know she couldn't be cured so he thought that with money she could be treated better and loyal. Genji seves Kinzo, who possibly left a will written and Genji is just following it
4-He jumped to see Shanon and the ring, he wanted to see her too in ep1 but his father stopped him, he's just in love
6-Maria is just a child and if you take Beatrice who ever she is is the culprit she likes Matia therefore her deaths are more peaceful
9-The same as ep6 should be right, after that someone just take advantage and tried to make Natsuhi confess about kinzo's death
I'll let Op handle he most interesting ones

>>4064408
*and the loyal

>>4064363
1- Genji, kumasawa and Nanjo are definitely accomplices, no 2 ways around it.
Genji is basically a samurai, he is going to follow Kinzo's will to the letter and then his master to the tomb.
And Kinzo's plan is to destroy everything he created.

Kumasawa is easy, she is greedy.

For Nanjo, it's harder to say.
The stakes that always kill him, Belphegor aka sloth could be a clue.
He could be tired of life, and decided to end his life with this grand suicide.

2-Anyways the 3 of them don't kill anyone, accomplices is another thing

3-For the body doubles, it's a loophole, Shannon's body CAN have a body double. And Kanon could have feigned death with Nanjo's help.

4-Shannon in Beatrice mode baited him

5-They are being threatened, sometime the easy answer is the right one.

6-Maria is loved by Beatrice, it's stated a lot, the painless death could be a sign of compassion.

7-George and Jessica are blinded by love, it's a common theme in the game. Natsuhi and Krauss are self centered, Gohda is an easily manipulable idiot.
Don't forget that they are Kinzo's servants, not Krauss's, and Kumasawa and Genji protected their identity after his death.

8-Kyrie exchanged her baby with Asumu.
Asumu's baby was given to Natsuhi, who died.
Afterward, this was probably used by Shannon to make Natsuhi more crazy/

9- To find the truth about Kinzo, this whole thing was prepared by basically the entire cast.

>>4064408
>6-Maria is just a child and if you take Beatrice who ever she is is the culprit she likes Matia therefore her deaths are more peaceful

That wasn't what >>4064363 was asking.

>6- Why was Maria killed in a different, "more human" way in ep4, when all others were brutally killed?

Beatrice liked Maria for every episode. It doesn't change the fact that she was killed brutally the first three games, but was then died a completely different way in the 4th game.

>>4064386
>>I was under the impression that you had claimed that creators are the one who decided the truth.

Never stated this.
Something DID happen in Rokkenjima in the real world.
And the creator found out the truth and created these fictions, hiding the truth with them.

And for the last point, the whole thing is based on a real incident, and Bernkastel and Lambdadelta represent the "will" of these sort of readers.

It's a commentary first of all, see it this way.

EP7 confirmed to be the last VN?

>>4064446

Your english and your theories are fucking horrible. Get the fuck out of /jp/, get the fuck out of 4chan, and GO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF

>>4064465
only that 7ep. GM is BERN

>>4064453
>>Beatrice liked Maria for every episode. It doesn't change the fact that she was killed brutally the first three games, but was then died a completely different way in the 4th game.

For the first 2 games, Maria is probably killed by the bomb.
Third game, she could have been killed by someone else entirely, Rosa and Maria's death is very strange, could have been a striff between parents.
You know paranoid adults with guns and all.

Episdoe 4 is a completely different scenario where Beatrice does everything to make Battler remember.
She probably wanted to be left alone with him on the island, therefore she killed Maria painlessly.

>>4064468
Yeah my english is pretty bad today, I should sleep more.
But for the theories, well I will enjoy your tears in a few months, faggot.

>>4064465
Featherine wants all the answers for EP7 so maybe.

Unless R07 wants a LOLMIRACLE ENDING and makes EP8 for it.

>>4064446

>8-Kyrie exchanged her baby with Asumu. Asumu's baby was given to Natsuhi, who died.

>Afterward, this was probably used by Shannon to make Natsuhi more crazy/

Except Kyrie hates Asumu and would never be like "o lawl lets trade babiez even tho u r skrewin mai husbando"
Furthermore, Asumu would not give away the baby to Kinzo, who would in tern give it to Natsuhi. Why would Rudolf not give a shit if his kid was just killed?

The theory has no substance to it, no matter how you look at it.

>To find the truth about Kinzo, this whole thing was prepared by basically the entire cast.

Except they ended up dying after. There's a huge gap in the theory. "Let's pretend to be dead to find out if Grandfather really doesn't exist" ---> "oops we're dead lol"
Even if they wanted to see if he's dead, it's more probable that they would've first tried a direct method rather than faking their deaths. Plus Rosa died too, she would not follow such a flawed plan.

>Implying I give two shits how Umineko ends

It is just your stupidity is an affront to my brain.

>>4064495
>>Except Kyrie hates Asumu and would never be like "o lawl lets trade babiez even tho u r skrewin mai husbando"

Sorry but it's not a theory, it's a fact, stated in episode 6.
Blame R07.

-They don't know about the bomb, or the fact that there's a real killer, retard.

Sorry but back in 20 minutes.

>>4064500
The duel between Kanon and Shanon seems to imply a lot of things.
Just re-read it, and I found this:
Quote:
"A fateful number? What is it?"
"The number that we know very well ... And, from the beginning of this game, it has been repeated over and over again ..."
"That is ... 19"
"... An interesting number ..."

19.
This is, the number indicating the witch, when the illusion of the 19th person can be seen in an island that has no more than 18 people.
This is, the number indicating the time from when this story was born.
This is, the number indicating the time that has passed until this unavoidable today.
And this is, ... the age of the true master of this world.
The culprit is 19 years old.

What is in the 1% unsolved?

>>4064510
Love

And without it the truth cant be seen

>>4064495
It's not flawed, just that someone X started the real killing and killed Krauss and Hideyoshi, the rest can't be confirmed dead till 24:00. Virgilia's red doesn't count since basically where the corpses are is a dimension 'without time or space'
It was a great plan, entertain Erika and troll Natsuhi, they just made it belieavble, but someone started the killing spree

Is beatrice truly moe?

What about the promise?

>>4064500

>They don't know about the bomb, or the fact that there's a real killer, retard.

>Resorting to calling people retarded when you realize your theory makes no sense.

>>4064524
We're told the promise in Episode 3. Remember?

>>4064522
yes, you got moetrice 100% this game, also her dignified onee-sama (suit and long haired)

>>4064538
No.

>>4064517
>And without it the truth cant be seen
>Claiming you solved Umineko and then saying you can't see the truth without love

Oh boy.

>>4064552
You're an moran.

>>4064564
>an moran

>>4064564
>an
>moran
OH WOW! Looks like someone just owned himself.

>>4064571
>>4064568
Jesus fucking Christ.

>>4064571
>owned

>>4064576
>>4064578
Lol, reverse trolled.

No, seriously though OP. To claim that you solved 99% of Umineko in your opening post, then to say that the 1% left is love, then to say you can't know the truth without love is, in itself, a massive contradiction.

Also, the whole "love" aspect of the game is worth more than 1% of the overall novel.

I think you should just feel happy with the trolling you've managed to pull off today and just give it a rest. (and yes, I will admit to being trolled for giving your theories a chance to begin with)

>>4064568
>>4064571
>actually believing it wasn't intentional.
Haha, oh wow.

>>4064588

>>4064594
>actually believing the responses were being serious
Hahaha, oh wow

>>4064603
>>4064594
>greentexting.
This thread is just so bad on many levels.

You're wrong, George and Shanon are the culprits.

>>4064603
>actually believing my response was serious
Haha, oh w-
Wait, nevermind. Let's stop it.

>>4064611
>greentexting
>green
Someone is colorblind.

>>4064617
Aww, and I had such a great comeback ready too.

>>4063901

Can you see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

>>4064591
I never stated that the 1% is LOVE.

And none of these theories are trolling.
If you aren't a complete idiot you should at least consider them.

You should at least try to think fo yourself, stop resorting to WE CAN'T SEE THE TRUTH BECAUSE THERE'S NO LOVE and other shits like this.

The 1% is some simple little things I'm not sure of yet.

Here's the without love it can't be seen bullshit that Ryuukishi07 pulled out:

Sayo is Shannon true name.
In phonetic, it's written Syayo.

Joshua is Kanon's tue name.
His name can also be read Yoshiya, or Yosiya in phonetic.

Without love it can't be seen.
Ai is love in japanese, ai = "i"

Syayo + "i" = Yosiya.

SO SMART

>>4064591
Sucessfull troll is sucessfull

>>4064703
WITHOUT LOVE IT CAN'T BE SEEN.
R07 IS A GENIUS

>>4064703
>Sayo is Shannon true name. In phonetic, it's written Syayo.

Yeah, only it isn't.

>>4064703
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>4064752
This. I don't get it. How does Sayo become Syayo?

>>4064703
Is this true?

It's so... underwhelming. I set myself up for disappointment, but damn.

>>4064765
Go back to /a/, faggot, and take your shitty picture with you.

>>4064782
It doesn't. "Syayo" would be "Shayo".

The whole sayo-Yoshiya in Japanese

・紗代→代紗→よしゃ→よ　し　や→嘉哉
・紗代→しゃ　よ→SYAYO→愛（Ｉ）がないと視えない→SYAYO＋I→YOSIYA
・紗代→34→72柱の34位はフルフル、嘉哉→448→4＋4＋8＝16→72柱の16位はゼパ
ル、
　真っ二つに割れたブローチの他、「二つで一つ」というモチーフが多く登
場する。

>>4064752
yes, it is, with the other romaji system 'sha' turn into 'sya'
because you're using しゃ

>>4064797
Sha in japanese is written Shi ya or sya.

>>4064783
no, it isn't true because it isn't confirmed, read the actual episode, this is speculations, so nothing is true

It's disappointing how most of the mystery ended up in "LOL DETECTIVE WASN'T THERE, INVALID" and the later episodes turned into a moefest.

I was expecting Ten Little Niggers but moe isn't so bad after all.

>>4064810
What's the line with the numbers say?

R07 is the greatest writer ever, I'm shitting bricks here.

>>4064833
Just explain Furfur and Zepar demonology number compared to Sayo and Joshua.

>>4064703
So this is the "Without love it can't be seen" that have been spammed since the beginning.

Ryuukishi07 is a hack.

Well at least Umineko gave us Dlanor.

>>4064812
But that only works with the しゃ in しゃのん.

>>4064703
Oh god, how I hate Nippon-shiki...

>>4064902
which if t¡you check her Tiops, is the way to pronounce her name, just that Sayo relaxes the middle and sounds like 'sa', but remember, it can be romanized as syayo, japs agreed

No, Battler is just incompetent. This whole love thing is just a sham. And every single person who keeps going about the Shannon = Kanon theory should just kill themselves.

>>4064935
So it it ends up true, what happens?

So Shannon + love = Kanon or something.

So Umineko fans, how did you like Ryuukishi's trick?

>>4064988
the answer: rtoll tolls trolls

>Generic Umineko troll thread.

>140 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Fuck.

So, is there still anyone who is still fighting against ShKanon?

Can't wait for the fanfiction ending.

>>4064620
>green.

the only important question:
is Shkanon really female or male?

>>4065312
should be female

>>4065312
futa

>>4065077
Anyone sane.

Girls should wear stockings like that in real life.

>>4065332
so no one on /jp/ then. got it.

>>4065293
Shame that Ep.6 ???? completly denied this whole fanfiction crap.

>>4065336
They dont? Where do you live, America?

>>4065346
I live in Canada, eh.

>>4063899
please cease and desist with your spamming and harassing on our board www.anoptalk.com except with n instead of p thanks in advance have a nice day many hugs from tiny loli who just wants her board clean and nice <3

>>>/rs/BEATRICE LIKES CHEESE

>>>/rs/
BEATRICE LIKES CAKE

>>4065314

Ah! A true DFC. Umineko was in need for one.

Can someone please debunk Shkannontrice before I go nuts.

I just can't see how it isn't true given -

The number limit means someone doesn't really exist
Zepar and Furfur.
Unlikeliness of Beatrice being anyone else

Why would everyone just silently keep up with this act? Even the adults who don't live there usually. How come Jessica and George both accept that they share a lover?

>>4065451
Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are the only ones who know.
They follow Kinzo's instructions.

>>4065438
They won't be able to, because it's the truth.

>>4065458
I'm sorry, but people were able to figure out that Kinzo was dead. Of course, the matter was more important for them, but it would still be noticeable. And Jessica supposedly had close a relatianship with Shannon, how could she not notice that she never saw her together with Kanon.

>>4065438
if Shkanontrice isn't true, then Shkanon and Jessirice are, choose yourself

>>4065499
She is stupid.

Oh boy Shkanontrice.

>>4065523

>>4065438
>Can someone please debunk Shkannontrice
Beatrice is 19.

>>4065631
Could only mean mental age, Beatrice in the legend is 19.
Could be that Shannon is actually 19.

Anyways it's not a proof.

I'm pretty sure "true master" means Battler

>Erika: The number of people here in the parlor equates to the people on the island.
>Erika: im the 18th person
>Battler: lolno its 17 people you bitch
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
For Shkannontrice to work it would be 18

>>4065648
>Could only mean mental age, Beatrice in the legend is 19.
Why would that be the case?

>Could be that Shannon is actually 19.
Prove it.

>>4065686
wat....OH GOD

>>4065686
Yeah we either go back to Shkannon or let this theory or we let this DIE IN FIRE FUCKING FINALLY

>>4065686
YES. THANK YOU.

>>4065686
Not really, we don't if Beatrice count or not.
Based on all the clues, she doesn't.
Like Battler stated the culprit exist in the x between 18 > x > 17

>>4065686
fuck, it was there all along. at least i don't have to rage about moe maid having ten different personalities any more.

>>4065744
If Beatrice doesn't count, then neither does Kanon.

>>4065744
And the Beatrice persona sees herself as a witch.

Beatrice is the 19th brain

>>4065744
then both non-dominant personas should die

>>4065751
Kannon sees himself as furniture

>>4065750
Why?
Shannon and Kanon see themselves in the same way, as a half human.
And they both state that they were created.
Therefore it's impossible for one of them to be the original personality.

There's the fact that it was said several times Shannon really changed in 6 years.
And that the original Shannon loved Battler.

It's simple really.

How "people" is defined is the question and will probably be the focus of the next episode.
Shannon and Kanon are considered as humans by everyone.
Beatrice sees herself as a witch, and everyone who know her think of her as a witch.

It's a simple question of definition.

>>4065769
>Shannon and Kanon see themselves in the same way, as a half human.
Kannon doesn't yet he wishes
Shannon was the only one to reach because lolwedding ring

Am I the only one who misses GAR SQUAD ATTACK LETS TAKE DOWN SOME TROLLS AND SAVE THE FUCKING DAY Battler from EP 5

I mean I knew there would be some tears in EP 6 since Beato just died but god grimdark much. Poor Moetrice.

and yes I know it gets better, but still

>>4065769
We have three people involved here. If you're saying there's only one body to go around, but three distinct personalities, then by the new logic put forth by Shkannontrice fags, Beatrice should count for one. That means there need to be eighteen people. If Beato doesn't count then Kanon, who was also erased, can't count either, making the total sixteen with Erika included.

>>4065792
what did you expect from an author with depressive feelings

Moetrice think of Battler as her father.
Shannon and Kanon talk about their "father" and how they were created because of his sin.
Oh shit.

>>4065804
She only calls him father because he created her. She eventually calls him Battler though.

>>4065798
Actually four.
Original, Beatrice, Shannon, Kanon.
And it doesn't change anything, it's a question of perception.

Maybe even stating "there's 19 people including Erika" in red could work.

>>4065817
Then explain why perception works in one way but not another? Why would Shannon make a personality that doesn't "exist"?

>>4065811
Moetrice has a personality very similar to Shannon though.
And don't you see the parralel between how Beatrice was created by Battler and how Shannon and Kanon were created by their father.

And the father is one of the 17 on Rokkenjima.
Wonder who it could be.

>>4065799
I think he should have held off EP 6 until C78 then. Fuck it's an awesome game but so much grimdark. Not to mention the focus on the two most boring couples in the entire game.

>>4065830
>Moetrice has a personality very similar to Shannon though.
Not even a little bit. At all.

>>4065804
>Moetrice think of Battler as her father.
Not really, no.

>>4065830
So Battler is Shannon's father?

>>4065830
>Moetrice has a personality very similar to Shannon though.

Besides the moe blush? Not at all.

>>4065824
Shannon and Kanon are perceived as 2 different persons by everyones.
They probably have their own paper and official identities as well, faked by Kinzo of course.
Officially both Shannon and Kanon exists.

Beatrice doesn't, she is closer to a phenomenon.

>>4065847
>Beatrice doesn't, she is closer to a phenomenon.
Why is this the case? Why would one of the personalities be like this? People can accept Kanon but they can't accept Beatrice? No logical reason for this to be true. Face it, Shkannontrice just got its teeth kicked in.

>>4065847

This should become a copypasta in every Umineko thread. Otherwise the Braun tube will be full of multiple personalities.

>>4065830
>Moetrice has a personality very similar to Shannon though.
Did you play the game? They're nothing alike.

>>4065847
>>They probably have their own paper and official identities as well
Actually here come a good argument.
I didn't agree with the whole "different definition of people" but this I can agree with.
Officially they both exist as 2 different people, therefore the red text works.

>>4065866
They are in a way, submissive and the blushing.
Not much I guess.

>>4065885
Shannon is not that submissive.

>>4065847
>Officially both Shannon and Kanon exists.
NO
One of them MIGHT exist the other is just a persona.

>>4065873
>Officially they both exist as 2 different people, therefore the red text works.
So Kinzo gave them both birth certificates or something, but neglected to do the same thing for his beloved Beatrice? Someone needs to explain why the three of them are treated so differently, backed up by text from the game, if you really expect me to swallow the "three personalities, but only two really 'count'" theory.

>>4065894
Officially they both definitely exist.
Otherwise people would have found it weird.
Nevermind Krauss and Natsuhi, who PAID them, the people who were searching the truth after the whole incident would have been doubtful of the one person who shouldn't exist.

DONT FORGET LOLITRICE WHICH ACCORDING TO YOUR CLUSTERFUCK OF THEORIES SHE IS THE ORIGINAL LITTLE GIRL.
That makes what ? 19 ?

>>4065903
Shannon and Kanon works you know, and meet lots of people.
Why the fuck would he give papers to Beatrice?

>>4065906
>>YOUR CLUSTERFUCK OF THEORIES
Not mine, Ryuukishi.
You can be in denial now, but it will definitely be the truth.

>>4065910
Why would he put Beatrice in Shannon's body? Makes no sense. You're grasping at straws.

But Kinzo always saying that Beatrice is the Head Alchemist of the family.
Shannon
Kannon
Beatrice
Kinzo abused lolitrice so much that he created 3 different people from her.

>>4065904
>Officially they both definitely exist.
Then the question is, why. And how did they fool people for so long? Hiding Kinzo didn't even really work the first time. Yet you're expecting me to swallow that Shannon and Kanon pulled the "never seen at the same time" trick for three years without anyone catching on?

>>4065925
Beatrice was created by a little girl(?) who was in love with Battler.
And Kinzo, you know the madman who kidnapped girl to raise them secretely, definitely had a hand at shaping this personality as well.

It's not grasping at straws, it's seeing the fucking obvious.

>>4065939
During 2 years, Kinzo protected their existence.
It was said in the game that Kanon was particularly close to Kinzo.

Afterward, Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo continued to protect the secret, probably because it was an order of Kinzo.

>>4065940
No, that only makes sense if Beato created Shannon, not the other way around. Shannon is nothing like Beato.

>>4065948
>During 2 years, Kinzo protected their existence.
Why?

>Beatrice is just a Phenomenon
Back to Shkannon then, now how can we break this....

>lack of red text about Beato
YES VICTORY
Now on to this>>4065968

>>4065956
That's the whole point.
Shannon was created like Kanon, stated several times in the game.

Kinzo was haunting his family with Beatrice as revenge for having his daughter "killed".

>>4065997
Then neither Shannon or Kanon exist, which still makes a problem with the red text.

>>4065968
EP 6 final theory would require Beatrice to gain control of the body and be people.
Yeah this pretty much kicked the bucket.

Anything?
Ok, alls I want to know is can battle hit beatrice's cervick if he goes in balls deep at full erection.

poor george

>>4066122
Witches have no genitalia, they can only pleasure men with their feet.

Just to point out, Featherine's red text is misleading and the Beatrice at the end of 6 is the real one. Kumasawa and Genji of all people explain this(and Featherine and Ange).

Beatrice is not the same "person" as the original in the same way that you are a different "person" to who you were 10 years ago, or to how you would be if you lived in a different country. She still has the same stream of conciousness, soul, essence, base personality, whatever. She just lost her memories of the last 1000 years, and of course memories are a big part of who you are.

Featherine elaborates saying that these memories will never be reassembled in the same way again, meaning that when Beatrice "gets better" she will differ almost certainly in one way or another. Reviving her exactly as she was is impossible - she must be rebuilt.

But it IS the original Beatrice, not a clone or spiritual successor or any bullshit like that. It's pretty much the same as Sakura from Tsubasa Chronicle.

>>4066176

Also, it's heavily implied it already happened to Beatrice once 6 years ago, which could tie with the "dead" Beatrice from Kuwadorian and the Beatrice Battler met.

This just made my day.
Thank you all.

Also keep in mind Meta-Beatrice was a presonification of the rules of her game too, though how this can be true and also the explanation of her loosing her memories etc. I'm not entirely sure. I think there's probably a core Beatrice that is the games master that Piece and Meta Beatrice as aspects of.

Meta Beatrice dying was like the rules of the game being smashed open. Battler claimed to understand Beato's game but because of the way he becomes a dumbass again at the start of every game he didn't really until the end, which is why the "real" Beato start to come back.

>>4066003
They both exist officially, which is why the red text works.

>>4066199
>I think there's probably a core Beatrice that is the games master that Piece and Meta Beatrice as aspects of.
The thing that was used to define Beato is her promise to Battler. It was also the only thing she couldn't relearn by reading the Kakera or talking to people, but then a miracle of love occurred...

>>4066205
>They both exist officially, which is why the red text works.
Prove it.

>>4063965
Yeah, anon is spot on on this one.

>>4066205
>Officially exist
>they are in a mad house
lol no

>>4066225
Circunstancial evidence, which work as well.
Krauss payed them both.
The Witch Hunt guys never thought that Shannon or Kanon was a weird existance.
If someone who who isn't supposed to exist was thought to be on the island, I think it would have made a great suspect.

What if the murders were actually some bullshit test from Kinzo like in Episode 4?

Kill everyone or everyone dies. However, if you try to kill everyone, you give people a chance to survive.

Battler's sin must be somehow related to this. Maybe Battler got Beatrice discovered?

>>4066245
>Krauss payed them both.
NEVER SAID
>The Witch Hunt guys never thought that Shannon or Kanon was a weird existance.
they had a good reason which was.....i dont kmow DIFFERENT FUCKING BODIES ?

>Beatrice is just a Phenomenon
So, Beatrice is Wallachia? Do not know if want.

Also, I think Nanjo is in on it. In fact I think the Beatrice we see from Kuwadorian in Episode 3 was never dead - if you take all her talk of "discarding a body of flesh" "different individual from that corpse" literally, she faked her own death, tried to escape but got caught. Beatrice only confirmed "She's definitely dead", obviously she couldn't say that Beatrice herself was dead. Nanjo knew of Kuwadorian so probably prepared the corpse. This Beatrice was only a kid so she'd be early 30s at most in Umineko, which seems about right. Could even disguise as Shannon, who's early 20s I think? Some people just don't age much.

This was foreshadowed by the suggestion the baby may have survived the fall in 5.

The reason for this is that it helps avoid the "culprit must be someone introduced earlier in the story" sort of thing and is the only decent alternative to Shkannontrice currently. If we assume the person limit is only on the Island at once, and that some characters are actively using the underground, possibly underwater passage to Kuwadorian then we can work around it.

Mostly it gets around another problem though - Battler said that the Beatrice he saw looked EXACTLY like the portrait. He spent enough time around Shannon and Kanon, and Jessica, yet never noticed this. Rosa also said her Beatrice looked like the portrait(though when was this painted? I thought it said only a few years back) so if we presume that she's just one of those people that has the same basic face for 19 years, it's the only logical solution.

I know it's cheap but so was the solution to the Chapel in 2.

>>4066271
>> DIFFERENT FUCKING BODIES ?
You must have missed a lot of shit.
The bodies can't be identified, neither can they be counted, they are all completely destroyed.
In an explosion as said in episode 6.

>>4066303
Jessica grew up with Shannon that was on the island since she was 6.
Just saying.

>>4066331

I don't by the puts on a wig, oh god it looks like the portrait defense though. Maybe those "blinded by love" would make that mistake, but everyone else? People would notice, if you've ever been to a family meeting or event people are full of inane talk around paintings. One of the adults probably would have noticed the resemblence in 2 or 3 too when they were wondering who Beatrice could be.

>>4064446
You are wrong. Eva carried out many of the murders in episode three. George and Hideyoshi were accomplices.

Episode three follows a different pattern than the other games. Hence the lack of letters from beatrice, and the lack of the magic diagram.

Eva learned about Shkanon's plan, and decided to use it carry it out the storyline murders so that she could escape the island with all the gold. Hence the magic world thing about Eva succeeding Beatrice.

It it confirmed in red that Shannon and Kanon died during the first twilight, and Shkanon's corpse was witnessed by a large number of adults.

>>4066245
>The Witch Hunt guys never thought that Shannon or Kanon was a weird existance.
lol witch hunt

>>4066361
I mean the second magic diagram, the one for opening closed rooms.

>>4066361
>>You are wrong. Eva carried out many of the murders in episode three. George and Hideyoshi were accomplices.
Never stated that it was Eva, and I don't believe it myself.

ShKanontrice still works, Shannon's body was found but it was a fake, her body is conveniently never checked in red.
For Kanon's body in the chapel, only Nanjo got close to him, he could have faked his death.

George's death doesn't make sense if he was an accomplice, especially the way he fucking JUMPED from the second floor of the house to go to the main house.
It just doesn't make sense, he isn't the type to be delusional.
Only reason I see was that he was baited by Shannon.

And Nanjo's death of course, alongside the whole "Jessica was guided by Kanon's voice".

The number found on the door was probably the code to stop the bomb, given to Eva from Beatrice mode Shannon since she solved the epitath.

>Shannon's body was found but it was a fake
Rule 10 already breaks this

I can't believe the number of people who still believe Kanon and Shannon are different people.

OP knows a huge amount of the solution. Including quite a number of things I've missed. He's no game master though, and shaky on the third episode.

Also I'm not entirely sure he has Battler's sin correct either, and his understanding of the epigraph is weak.
>Letting the poor Sayo get mindfucked by Kinzo, she disguised as a blond hotness for him, but Kinzo saw her first and thought she was his Beatrice in his craziness.
And what happened next?

>>4066441
It doesn't, not the rules in the game at least.

>>4066418
6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

You are forgetting this basic fact.

Also the whole idea of the sixth game is 07 showing that Shkanon doesn't need to be alive for the plotline murders to take place. Someone else, more particularly the epigraph solver can take their place. Hence why Eva kills in the third episode, and Battler kills in the fifth. It's a matter of appointing a successor. Shkanon is still the culprit by proxy, since they're the one behind the murders. But it's a different person carrying them out.

What's this about Nineteen?

>>4066454
>>And what happened next?
I don't think he raped her or some shit like this, he doesn't seem to be that type of pervert.

But he decided to recreate his Beatrice through her, and his Beatrice is a witch, a gruesome witch.
And Battler never came to save her.

Battler states:"Beatrice was a woman who fought with both reason and madness".
I think this is true, in episode 6 it's shown pretty clearly that there's 2 sides of Beatrice, one made to love Battler, one shaped by Kinzo in his madness.

>>4066441
No, that breaks UNIDENTIFIED bodies. Not IDENTIFIED ones.

>>4066500
Did you miss the countless threads about ShKanontrice?
The whole point of that theory is that both Shannon and Kanon can be "dead" and still continue to the murders.

>>4066522
OH SHIT 6 x 9 = 42 WAS ACTUALLY A HINT

However the red text isn't the main thing, the evidence is.

The fact is that all the adults witnessed the corpse of Shkanon, and carried on their lives with the belief that Shkanon is dead.

Your theory needs to explain why the adults convey the belief that they have witnessed the corpses of Shkanon if that is not in fact the truth.

>>4066581
Faking death, that's all.
There's enough evidences to prove that Kanon can fake his death convincingly.
Episode 1 for one.

What happened to the 'Multiple people' theory about one person going around killing and another dude doing the Staking and someone else does the First Twilight?

Does anybody have a transcript of Kanon's speech in the boiler room in Episode 1? I don't have the first four Episodes on this computer, and I can't be assed to redownload everything, apply the patch, and Ctrl through EP1 to get to the right point.

>>4066594
So red text says he is death and you are talking about fake death ? That changes everything.

>>4066594
You must present evidence that leads us to believe that the adults witnessed a fake death in episode three.

I can present tons of evidence that shows that the episode one death was an obvious fake. However we were never given a reason to believe that the episode three death was faked.

>>4066617
You seriously should use easymodo and read about ShKanontrice, you obviously don't know anything about that theory.

>>4066622
>>However we were never given a reason to believe that the episode three death was faked.
And we weren't given a reason that his death wasn't faked either.
Since the detective never saw his body.

But there's some things, like the Kanon/Jessica scene that were shown for a reason.

Of course you could believe in ghosts or that Jessica saw the Kanon in her heart and managed to go through half of the mansion blind that way.

But I personally believe that everything show in Umineko was shown for a reason.

>>4066625
YOU ARE CHALLENGING A CONFIRMATION OF DEATH IN RED AND A KNOX RULE.

What was the exact order in which the victims of EP4 die?

What someone needs to do is go through and note the people that actually talk to Shannon and Kanon at the same time in scenes. Is Genji really the only person?

>>4066672
Kumasawa as well.

>>4066617
No it doesn't, because he's wrong and doesn't understand the significance of the red text.

Red blue and gold signify three ways of coming to the truth of the world.

The blue text can be used as long as what it describes doesn't contradict itself. I know some people who take this as their only truth. For instance I knew a christfag who was convinced that God was real and was watching over him. He couldn't provide any evidence, but he said that he didn't need evidence for something to be true, it was enough for it to be self consistent.

Red text can only be used if you have conclusive evidence to show something. It's the sort of truth that I live my life by. That is why as Ms. Knox showed, the red is completely useless without evidence to back it up. The witches can use red because they have a god's eye view of the game, so they know for sure when someone is dead or not. Battler can use red because he has reached the real truth, and thus sees how each bit of evidence leads to each bit of truth.

The golden truth I don't understand as well as I desire. Lambdadelta says that it can only be used by the game master, but I don't think that's true. I think the golden truth is the child's truth. This is shown by Dlanor's golden eyes.

How does a child know for sure that magic is real, that that corpse is definitely Kinzo's that their mother loves them? I don't know, hence why I don't think I understand the golden truth.

I don't think the golden truth is always the actual truth, Dlanor acknowledges this when she says it's sometimes less powerful than the red truth.

>>4066654
Presentation of evidence and logical argument:
1. Nanjo knows what he's doing as a doctor. This can be known because Kinzo, who is extremely wealthy, hired him personally. In addition to this he would never mistake a corpse for an alive person.
2. When someone has been stabbed with a stake like object in the chest, you IMMEDIATELY stem the flow of blood with whatever you have. Ideally something like a wet towel.
3. From one and two we would deduce that Nanjo would move immediately to stem the flow of the blood of someone who has been stabbed with such an object.
4. Nanjo did not immediately move to stop Kanon from bleeding.

From this we can conclude that Kanon was never stabbed with a stake like object.

You don't have anything like that for Kanon's death in episode three.

>>4066716

Red Truth can be used to mislead. Golden Truth is just telling the rules of the game as they are.

>>4066716
> Lambdadelta says that it can only be used by the game master
Actually, R07 apparently stated in an interview that it can be used by anyone who knows/has reached the truth of Beato's game. Which is obviously the case, as in Episode 6 the Beatrice who represents the legend of the witch used gold text when talking to Moetrice. Note that this was the only use of gold text in the Episode.

My take on it is that the gold truth is basically a portion of THE truth, the truth about Beato's game. Using it reveals a portion of the rules that make up the game, and that's why it can only be used by those who have reached that truth.

>>4066361
>thinking Eva is the culprit of Episode 3

>>4066749
> This can be known because Kinzo, who is extremely wealthy, hired him personally.
Kinzo hired Nanjo because he trusts him due to their long and close friendship. Though that does also mean that he trusts Nanjo's skills as a doctor, it doesn't mean that Nanjo is the best possible doctor Kinzo could have hired.

>>4066749
Stated by Dlanor, the characters are completely consistent in every episodes.
Therefore if they did something in one episode, they can do the same thing in another.
If Kanon faked his death in one episode with Nanjo's help, then it's normal to think he could do the same in a similar situation in another episode.

>>4066780
Ok sure.

>>4066807
That doesn't get you out of having to present evidence.

The point is, I can construct a theory where Eva is the culprit, and I can do so using evidence, and in such a way that doesn't assume the red truth of Shannon and Kanon's death is word games.

When multiple truths exist in parallel, the authenticity of both is questioned.

>>4066869
Shall I construct a theory involving Kyrie as the culprit for the third game?

(Actually I'd rather not, as I'm feeling a bit lazy at the moment, but yeah.)

Shkanontrice might be true. However R07 said that the culprit has a plan.
Crazy people like Natsuhi and probably Shkanon who are most suspicious are innocent.

Kyrie is the culprit.

>>4066909
My pet theory is that Rudolf killed Rosa and Maria, it was probably an accident that got a lot worse.
Kyrie learned this and decided to help him hide this, being the loyal waifu that she is.
And shit went worse from there.
In the end Kyrie realized that Hideyoshi and Eva knew about what happened.
So she and Rudolf cornered Hideyoshi in the mansion.
And shit got even worser.
Kyrie survived, only to be gunned down by Beatrice mode Shannon who was lurking the whole time stabbing corpses with the stakes.

>>4066917
The fact that she has DID doesn't mean she can't follow a master plan.