/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I don't get it.

>>4045836
Me too.

NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN

>>4045810

Gimme the full theory first before citing anecdotes.

>>4045845
You can't escape from it, it's the truth of Umineko after all.

Beatrice isn't a person because she is a witch.
She is her own being though, stfu about this stupid as fucking theory.

>>4045852
Where were you in the past few days?
Use easymodo or something.

Kannon's body was moved from the sealed room

Shannon is Runon.

The more time passes, the more things get added to this theory.
I can't see how anything else could work now.
Fuck R07 you disappointed me.

>>4045874
Doesn't work in episode 6.
Kanon's body never went outside of the room.

>>4045883
give me the red for that

>>4045888
It was stated that Kanon never went outside in red.
And that would carry his body?
Only him, Erika and Battler entered the room.
It's stated in red that Erika didn't do anything.

So...who raped Shannon?

>>4045930
Battler told her he loved peppy blond with big breasts.
Shannon, poor girl in love, decided to show himself in front of him with a blond wig and some pad.
Kinzo saw this and went OOOH BEATRICE.
You can imagine the rest.

>>4045930

> So...who raped Jessica?

fix'd

>>4045880
wait till MASTER TROLL, but still, we've got enough time and all the clues were in the later episodes, he's be disappointed if we dind't solve it

>>4045985
>>he still believes in Jessitrice
Poor delusional guy.

The "without love it can't be seen" trick is actually pretty clever.
Can it be used for any other mystery in the game?

>>4046001
Meh, I still believe in Jessitrice, and I think this Shannonkanontrice theory is fucking stupid. In episode four alone, Kanon would have to haul ass to where Shannon was, disguise himself as shannon, then Shannon would have to haul ass to where Beato was, disguise herself as Beato, confront Battler, then haul ass back to where Shannon was, and then die.

The implications of the theory are hilarious.

>Syayo + i = ?
>Shit bricks.
>Beatrice is a person that isn't really a person.
>Doesn't that remind you of something?

I'm not sure I follow.

>>4046088
That theory implies that Shannon has a body double.
It was never denied in red and that's why only Kanon's body keep on disappearing.

>>4046056
In principal for everything.
You can't see magic unless you don't want to suspect the ones you love.

Shanon wasn't raped, she was Kinzo's sex servant. Also Beatrice isn't the third personality of ShKanon, person who falls in blind love with Battler becomes Beatrice. That's why there can be few of them at the same time.

>>4046101
A body double? No, doesn't the theory state they all share the same body?
Kanon's body vanishes because he is in the same body as Shannon, naturally.

>>4046103
I meant in the wordplay kind of way, not in the sappy kind of way.

>>4046108
Body double mean fake body, not that Shannon died in the past.
It was never denied in red that no body trick like this is used.
The only time when it is used in red, for episode 1 and 4, it's very specific.
You didn't read the theory well enough.

Ah, my dear friends, do be most aware that Battler gets called out for holding back the truth in this episode. Therefore, this blatantly obvious conclusion we've reached might be in danger of being, y'know, true.

>>4045909
hahaha....how sure you that the two of them were the only ones left.

>>4046122
>You didn't read the theory well enough
Well, aren't we prententious! No, the theory is still stupid, even moreso with a "body-fake", When is it ever foreshadowed that she would have the ability to pull something off like that?

>>4046130
The conclusion reached at the end of episode 6 is that "Erika doesn't exist".
It's of course not true, in the case of episode 5 and 6, but she couldn't solve that riddle and disappeared.

Everything else, like that theory, is only hinted.

Umineko thread?

Ok, probably been answered before but VN newbie here.

Batller renounced his ushiromya heritage right? Right.

So, why was he allowed back on rokkenjiima? Also, why was he allowed to wear the golden bird symbol?

>>4046144

PONY

>>4045909
Kannon never went outside the same cant be said for his body.
Remenber that Kinzo also stopped being counted as a person after he died, despite his body being still on the island.

>>4046139
Kanon carried a bag big enough to hold a corpse in episode 1.
Battler never sees Shannon's body directly, except in episode 4 but in this case, it's implied that she killed herself, probably because Battler couldn't remember his sin.

The red text that identify the bodies always get around Shannon's body for some reason.
And only Kanon's body keep on disappearing, again and again and again.

>>4046144
His father begged him to return. And he had no choice since Asumu's (his mom) grandparents hadpassed away.

I believe in ShKanon, I was sure they are the same person by Ep2, but ShKanontrice is just too much. Besides even if ShKanon is true that don't mean she's the main culprit. It would be too obvious and easy.

>>4046151
No, Erika tries this and it didn't work.
Nobody carried a body, Kanon simply disappeared from the room, without a trace.

Juuza is pretty close to Joshua

>>4046165
tries ? how so ?

>>4046152
First off, assuming that Shannon = Beatrice is a bit ambitious, but none of that stuff foreshadows an ability for her to make a body double. She's never shown to have the capacity to replicate things. Not once. And even assuming she DID have that ability, she killed herself AND left a body double? Why? No one would have anything to gain from that, it's just fucking stupid.

>>4046164
This is episode 6, comparatively by this point most detective novels are easily solvable.

Or you guys think R07 is a fucking genius whose intelligence surpass every detective novel writers that ever existed maybe.
He sure proved it well in Higurashi.

>>4046144
About this part I've always wondered, why is BAttler the only human with the one winged eagle in the other side and pointing our left/his right. (eva and Jessica's is pointing to the normal side to )

>>4046186
Kinzo did it.

It'd be just like him to rise from the dead, fly through walls and dismember his family.

>>4046181
>Shannon = Beatrice is a bit ambitious
No, you can assume that Beatrice is an Alter Ego of one person on Rokkenjima due to the flashback with Battler talking about what kind of girlfriend he wants.
That person is not Jessica for circumstantial, obvious reasons. That leaves pretty much only Shannon.

>>4046181
Are you an idiot?
Body double doesn't mean that she replicated her body with magic or some shit like this.
Just that she brought on the island the body of a woman who kind of look like her.
And when Shannon "died" she just gave her her clothes.

There's a reason why the detective never come close Shannon's body, or why her body is never confirmed in red.

>>4046186
We don't think he's a genius, but we do think he's competent enough to write a decent story. Shannonkanontrice is moronic, and the implications it leaves even more so. It makes Jessica a moron, it makes George a moron, it makes everyone who slightly knows them a moron. It's just filled with idiocy.

>>4046198
you know it can still be Jessica because the japanese way of talking right? thogh is highly unlikely

>>4046186
Ryukishi said he wasn't giving out any answers until the very end.

EP6 reeks of him handing us the answers (because you can solve nearly everything if Shkannontrice is confirmed), so I think it could be a trap.

>>4046205
And it's also the only plausible theory made so far.
And the whole "without love it can't be seen" thing that have been prevalent in Umineko could just be a hint.

Because George and Jessica only looked at Shannon and Kanon with love, they only saw them as their own persons.

The only ones who know are the closest people to Beatrice aka Ronove/Genji, Virgillia/Kumasawa and Gaap/Nanjo.

What if something happened to Kanon inside the room and he was carried out by Battler? This way he never left the room by himself nor did he die inside it.

>>4046205

Just assume there was no crossdressing involved and that the white text was lying to us all this time when scenes with them are presented.

Wait...

>>4046202
Oh, she brought a dead body with her. So she could have a body double while she dressed up as Beato. Even then, no foreshadowing to indicate she'd be able to disguise the body double then, and also, it's fucking stupid, and quite frankly, Beatrice halo jumping onto the island would be more plausible.

>>4046216
Episode 7 could very well be the last episode.
So he will give the answers that he foreshadowed on a silver plater.
What did he foreshadow heavily again?
Remember that R07 isn't a subtle writer.

DID....what a cheap escape.
Stop being Freud and start thinking as Sherlock Holmes you all.

>>4046219
Without love the TRUTH can't be seen, dumbass!
Not without love MAGIC can't be seen, it's the truth!
Also, when you love someone, you get to know them well. George and Jessica should know enough about Shannon and Kanon to know if they were actually a man/woman.

>>4046219
And how the hell do you propose Natsuhi and Krauss wouldn't realize they only have two servants working for them?

>>4046227
But the whole reason why Bern becomes GM of EP7 is because Auau is bitching about how EP6 didn't explain shit.

>>4046232
George doesn't meet Shannon that much, and he probably only see her as some sort of idealized person.
Jessica only crush on Kanon from afar.

>>4046227
gaap, goat servants, the north wind and sun strategy, the 'suspicious' tea Rosa brought, all of these in ep1
Higurashi was full of foreshadowing about the hinamizawa syndrome in ep1, you just gotta read it to bctach the more than 1000 references K1 makes about it

>>4046219
And how the hell do you propose Natsuhi and Krauss wouldn't realize they only have four servants working for them?

>>4046227
But the whole reason why Bern becomes GM of EP7 is because Auau is bitching about how EP6 didn't explain shit.

>>4046232
>Without love the TRUTH can't be seen, dumbass!
>Not without love MAGIC can't be seen, it's the truth!
facepalm.jpg

>>4046245
also that she doesn't want Battler to win

pretty much.

>>4046245
>>And how the hell do you propose Natsuhi and Krauss wouldn't realize they only have four servants working for them?

Stated several times that Shannon and Kanon aren't Natsuhi or Krauss but Kinzo's servants.
They were working for Kinzo, Natsuhi and Krauss had nothing to say about it.
So they just accepted it, they both are self-centered anyways.
And for not seeing Shannon and Kanon together, they probably thought that one was with Kinzo when the other was with them

>>4046259
Yes, but Kinzo died, man. Leaving Krauss the master of the household for more than a year.

>>4046259
But wouldn't someone notice that their faces look, you know. Identical? If the two were introduced as twins or looking like twins I could buy it, but we're told nothing of the sort.

>>4046243
This.
This time Kanon and Shannon "switched" in the guest-house's room for servants.

>>4046245
Yeah it doesn't explain, it just hints.
Not like the hints weren't there before.
What would you guys prefer? Something that come out of nowhere or something that have been foreshadowed since the beginning?

Which one would be good writing?

>>4046268
We'd prefer something that wasn't fucking stupid, naturally.

>>4046262
And he continued to be a self centered man that didn't want to destroy the statu-quo in fear of making his siblings learn the truth about Kinzo's death.

And Genji and Kumasaw protected Shannon/Kanon identity.

>>4046263
Who'd be staring at Shnnon's face?

You guys do realize that if Shkannon is true, George is aware of this and Jessica isn't, right?

>>4046278
who else....

>>4046277
And here we lie at the core of the stupidity. We have tons of people protecting Sh/Kanon's identity, simple so Sh/kanon can pull off a complex murder and troll Battler. Wait, what?!

So Battler's first love was Kanon?

Beatrice may very well represent any girl in love. Any girl who feels strong love becomes Beatrice. Shanon embraced her love, that's why she was friendly with Beatrice. Kanon rejected "his" love so they were in conflict. Jessica don't believe in Beatrice because she can't find happiness in love. Kumasawa was the first Beatrice because she was the first person since Ushiromiya's inhabited the island to feel true love for someone.

>>4046295
Kanon wasn't working there 6 years ago.

Explain lolitrice in EP3.

Do it.

Other than the usual "detective doesn't see Shannon and Kanon together", remember how Kanon always look at Shannon talking with other like a ninja, always saying that it's his "job".

Or how they both don't consider themselves humans and think they were "created".
Or how Shannon thinks that Beatrice can make her a full human.
Remember the scene with the mirror in episode 2? What could be the signification of destroying it?

>>4046295
No, Battler's first love was Shannon who is also Kannon who is also Bea.....FUCK

>>4046298
Shannon was taken in when she was 6.
No family, the one who raised her was Kumasawa.
Kumasawa = Virgillia.

Do the math.

>>4046294

Stop assuming crossdressing and conspiracies take place.

Just accept that the white text narration lied to us every single time Shannon or Kanon appeared or interacted with any one else.

Pick your poison between the two.

sdsd

>>4046294
Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo counterpart in the meta world are Beatrice allied.
Don't you fucking think it mean something?

>>4046298
lolitrice is to Eva what Beatrice was to Natsuhi in EP5: a supernatural supporter that agreed with her innermost thoughts, though she dare not express them publicly.

See also: Sakutarou and Maria.

>>4046310
That doesn't explain Kuwadorian. Or why she's even there.

>>4046318
How about no, because R07 claimed that Shannon and George's relationship should be taken at face value? George proposes to Shannon, he would HAVE to cover up her identity, or, he would be a tremendous idiot, the likes of which have never been seen.

>>4046333
> R07 claimed that Shannon and George's relationship should be taken at face value

Can you provide a source on this statement?

>>4046333
So George is gay now ?

>>4046331
>implying Lolitrice had anything to do with Eva

>>4046332
Kumasawa could have taken here there some time.

Why would Kinzo take a 6 years old girl in his house?

>>4046341
>Why would Kinzo take a 6 years old girl in his house?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

George doesn't know.
Jessica may or may not know.

>>4046341
I'm sure there's a wholesome, rational reason.

Really.

>>4046339
No, Jessica is.

>>4046339
and what if Shannon is really a woman, it's more likely than beaing a man, she just has to stuff her breast to make them bigger and tape them to make them smaller

>>4046355
But then she wouldn't give Battler the opportunity to grope her back in Episode 1 or 2.

>>4046355
Battler would have notice.
He's a good Boob especialist

>>4046364
>>4046369
But he didn't touch her.
She knew that someone would stop him, or that he would stop himself.

>>4046372
Yes, because she can read minds now, right?
No, that in addition to Kanon not being able to lift things would indicate that Kanon's body is indeed female.

So, is there any reason to deny it except for the IT'S STUPID, RYUUKICHI WOULD NEVER DO THAT?

So who is the Beatrice Rosa killed 19 years ago?

>>4046372
Creepy how George goes on dates with her, hugs her and doesn't notice anything.

>>4046382
Random woman Kinzo picked up.

>>4046378
Yes. It's really, really fucking stupid.

>>4046382
Shannon.....wait no.
Some previous sex slave servant

>>4046389
Too bad "stupid" isn't an argument.

ShKanon must be a girl. Kanon looks feminine and is very weak. Also groping.

That makes Jessica a dyke. Not that I'm surprised.

>>4046401
she's always looked like a lesbo

>>4046393
No, Plausibility is indeed an argument. Shannon/Kanon are involved with many people, with Jessica and George closely so. For them not to know is absurd, and you know it. Also, total lack of foreshadowing, it's NEVER mentioned that they look ANYTHING alike, and there's NOTHING to indicate that Shannon OR Kanon is a master of disguise. The theory lacks common sense, in the end.

>>4046401
>and is very weak
thats another problem Kannon is a skinny motherfucker yet Shannon looks pretty healthy.

>>4046393
Not when there's a lack of logic. If you're going to disguise yourself as someone else, it better be good enough to fool them. Unless there's an accomplice nearby, it's too much of a risk to pull it off in front of a group of people.

Is it true that Erika confesses to Dlanor in EP6?

>>4046404
>>4046401
It explains the brass knuckles and the fact she doesn't have any boyfriend.

This foolishness will not be allowed to CONTINUE. By Knox's tenth law, twins and other duplicates must not be ALLOWED! Disguises cannot be permitted without any CLUES.

Allow me to speak. Vague hints are not the same thing as clues. Ridiculous restructuring of a person's name in no way provides solid evidence of one person assuming another's identity. The clues must be present in the disguise itself. Your theory must present ways in which Shannon or Kannon acted out of character. Also, a casual look at the character screen shows they look completely different. Without the author telling us they could be mistaken for each other, no precedent for their switch can be found.

Allow me to speak. The detective, empowered by the authority of objectivity, saw both Kanon and Shannon in the same room on numerous occasions. There can be no doubt that at all of these times there existed two discrete individuals known as Shannon and Kanon.

With only this evidence, this level of reasoning is possible. What do you think?

>>4046407
>total lack of foreshadowing
If you only watch the anime maybe.

ShKanon isn't stupid. It was there since Ep.2. ShKanontrice on the other hand...

Actually, no die on episode 4!
I already proclaimed in red at the time that there were no suicides!, there were no suicides in episode 4. The Shannontrice theory is shot to hell!!

>>4046412
>>4046407
They aren't disguising if they are the way they are since the beginning.
And Battler never really look closely at Kanon.
And if they do look like each other if you look at their portrait, but the fact that they never stand near each other probably make it harder to say that they look alike.

>>4046409
Kanon is skinny FOR A MAN.

>>4046412
>>4046407

Just accept that all scenes containing Shannon and Kanon are twisted white text lies.

There it makes sense.

>>4046418
There's no twin or disguise in that theory though.

>>4046427
inb4 herp derp word play

Explain.

>>4046434
i know that Battler is ncompetent but thats just being silly

We should all be able to agree on that either
*Kanon = Shannon
or
*this is a big fat red herring
Anyway it is apparent that R07 heavily hints at that possibility.

Was anyone really able to solve Higurashi before being told?

I don't have much confidence in solving Umineko.

>>4046448
You know what? Here's MY question.

How do you explain everyone recognizing Kinzo at dinner when he's already dead?

>>4046456
Lots of people could solve Higurashi from the third game onward.

>>4046457
Video.

>>4046463
I see, I'm just no good with this kind of thing.

>>4046448
Beato was faking it. Lambda shot that down with red later.

>>4046457

Video will or inherited names.

>>4046455
Heavily hints? Shannon and Kanon provably exist in the same place at the same time. This is absurd.

>>4046456
Main villain and secret conspiracy was easy to solve. Brain parasites were just stupid though, but if we count them as mysterious drug then it was easy to solve.

>>4046456
We could already smell Myo by the third arc.
Umineko still smells like bullshit.

>>4046468

No she wasn't. It hurt her and it's referred to several times. Lambda just said that the only one who can use Kanon's name is Kanon himself. She only shot down Battler. Add that to the red that Nobody can mistake any different person for Kanon.

Explain.

>>4046457
Most likely inherited names. Everyone recognized the person, sure, but that doesn't mean they recognized the old Kinzo. They knew the person on sight, and were forced to acknowledge him as the new head, but there are a lot of people who that could apply to.

Ok, i have, probably, a silly question to ask.

During all these theory's we hear that only red can be trusted.

So, has the red ever actually denied an event that we, as the veiwer have seen? Or has the red only been used to deny theories supplied by battler, beatrice, hell, anyone in the meta world.

>>4046474
>Shannon and Kanon provably exist in the same place at the same time.
Yesno. Anyway, that's the same like saying Kinzo probably exists in his room.
The biggest hint this time around is: Kanon will leave the island together with Shannon he says. Jessica will never find Kanon after Shannon has left the island. Kanon and Shannon cannot coexist outside of Rokkenjima.

>>4045809
please cease and desist with your spamming on our board ano
n
ta
lk.c
om thanks in advance have a nice day many hugs from tiny loli

>>4046492
There is nothing about inherited name of Kinzo in the other episodes though, nothing at all.
Video will is more likely, would explain the ending of episode 2 as well.

>>4046495
As I have just this morning finished ep 5 I'm coming into this whole thing very late. Why can't we trust the Golden Truth?

>>4046487
The inheritance theory means that someone could have assumed Kanon's title only after he died.

>>4046500
Example: In episode six:
Moe-Beato makes candy appear by magic. For that magic she ordered the NightRuler-Beato to close her eyes. Moe-Beato obviously pulled a cheap trick. Neverthless NightRuler-Beato could confirm in Gold, that she made the candy appear by magic, which is obviously wrong for magic doesn't exist.

>>4046495

Well.

Kinzo is dead.

All Kinzo scenes are dubious by default (save one). That what you mean?

>>4046519
Magic in the broader scope.
You know like the magic that you see in circus and all.

If Shannon=Kanon was true, you would be able to tell from hints and clues exactly who was who at every possible relevant instance according to Knox's tenth.

Please address this gaping hole in the troll theory.

>>4046523

Stage Magic basically. It exists in the cracks between truth and perception, and is something that, maybe for once in your life, you want to believe is real, because it was cool and made you happy.

>>4046525
Disguise implies trying to be someone you aren't.
Nobody is disguising here, Shannon is simply being Shannon and Kanon is simply being Kanon.
Even Beatrice has her own set of clothes, who don't look like the one in the portrait.

>>4046519
Same trick was done in Episode 2 when Beato repaired Maria's candy. Virgilia elaborated on that a bit in Episode 5. Rosa could have told Maria what she saw, but never did.

You can just pull it out of your pocket and give to a child in a simple manner.

Or you can present it in a fancy way to make that child happier. Either way, the result is the same. But the method used maybe the trick to it.

>>4046535
too bad it does not work that

>>4046508

The only one who can use Kanon's name is Kanon himself. Nobody can mistake Kanon by sight.

Someone explain Shkanontrice with this then.

>>4046550
Actually it does, look in a dictionary.

>>4046552
Kanon is Kanon, he was part of Shannontrice from the beginning.
Therefore he is always the only one who used his name.

Pretty simple.

>>4046418
I do not believe in Shanon = Kanon bs. But I think soe dude would said this..

>The detective saw Kanon and Shanon together in a lot of the scene.

Actually there has been only a SINGLE scene where Erika is in the room at the same time both of them is in the room - the beginning night where it was stated in red that everyone in the island was in the room. However, the scene is narated by Battler - who is NOT the detective. You are seeing what Battler see. Not what Erika see. You do not know what Erika see here. See might be seeing a single person Kanon - we simply don't know.
Similar scene also happen later on when Battler saw Kinzo and Erika is also in the scene. Kinzo is definitely fantasy here, and we are sure that Erika did not see him. Still he was shown.

>By Knox's tenth law, twins and other duplicates must not be ALLOWED! Disguises cannot be permitted without any CLUES.

Knox 10th in the game is actually - #
# Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any CLUES!, so yes you are right. The key word is clue. A lot of people has been argue that the clue has been thrown around since the beginning. The furniture pair thingy, their char design sprite etc... So how can you be sure that those are not clues?

If we accept that magic don't exist at all then whole meta-world and 1998 is worth nothing. It's just some twisted fanfiction.

Besides Hagnyuu confirmed that everything in meta-world did really happen.

This theory has so much going for it that nobody can honestly say that it's bullshit.

Personally I think it fits a lot of things Battler tried to go for, namely that the murderer is mysterious person x in a way.

>>4046603
>>Besides Hagnyuu confirmed that everything in meta-world did really happen.
She didn't say in what way.

>>4046568

So what you're saying is, two people occupying one body have two different names, and ownership of those names are exclusive. Even if that person can be considered Shannon as well (because they share the same body) it cannot be argued that she also uses the name Kanon?

>>4046552
Well, I hate the theory, but I can try anyway. Shanon died a year ago, if not longer than that. Kanon has been playing double here.

Satisfied all Kanon's name reds
Satisfied all Shanon is dead red as well.
Also satisfied Natsuhi's red about tell Shanon about her favorite season.

>>4046629
If you consider Shannon and Kanon as 2 different persons, yes.

>>4046641
Doesn't satisfy Knox 10th though.
Better than they were all part of one being from the beginning.

>>4046641
Then it doesn't make sense, that Kanon is gone, though.
Instead, Shannon should've died in the duel.

>>4046629
Well, never stated anywhere in red that Shannon's name can't be inherit after she died. Kanon can have both name after she was sometimes before the game start.

>>4046641
Doesn't make sense, Shannon and Kanon are obviously counted as 2 different people in the red count.
And all the "Shannon is in that place" and others are unexplainable that way.

>>4046629

Can two people sharing the same body be distinct and unique?

Can Kanon point at himself, and say. I am only Kanon. But isn't he also Shannon? They share the same body, brain, organs, existence. It can be argued that Kanon is also Shannon, and Shannon also Kanon.

That violates the red that only Kanon can use the name Kanon.

>>4046568
The thing is Kanon's persona was dead by that time and Shannon was with the servants. She would have to go away, dress like Kanon, return, kill Kumasawa and Nanjo while freaking Gohda, go away again, dress like Shannon and return like if nothing happened. That just sound damn stupid.

What if two people on the island share the same name and one of them is using an alias?

>>4046661
Already answered about Knox 10th here. >>4046585

You never know what is the clue here. I can even claim similar character sprite as a clue.

>>4046675
>>Can two people sharing the same body be distinct and unique?
That's the whole question.
And that's how you get:
"There's 18 people" in red
"There's 17 people" in red
One after the other.

>>4046673
What red count? You mean the alive/dead summary from episode 3?

>>4046690
We never actually got "There are X people on the island" in red, did we? I thought ambiguous statements like "There are no more than X people on the island" was all we got.

>>4046719
Episode 6

>>4046673
There are only 2 kinds of red counts here.
1. Explicitly stated their names. eg of EP3
# 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
As you can see here there is no time of death involve. Kinzo was dead long before the game start. Shannon probably was. Kanon just inherit her name.

The other type was Number of people in the island count.
EP6 last red stated something along the line of #There are exactly 17 people on the island including Erika#
So shit sux.... those can't be used to deny Kanon is cosplaying Shannon.

dam.. I hate this theory, someone please destroy it.

>>4046690

Isn't that bit meant to be denying erika as one of the people on the island? Red: There are 18 people on the island. Erika truthly see's herself as a real person. Red: There are 17 people on the island. Battler and beatrice denying erika as an exsitance.

If ShKanontrice theory and this whole "Umineko never happened, all was Featherine's fanfiction" things turn out to be true then Umineko is the biggest disappointment ever. Brain parasites were 5x better than this shit.

But I'm sure it's all Ryu's trolling. I really am...

>>4046719
Nope. Erika says she is the 18th person on Rokkenjima.
Then Battler and Beatrice return that there are 17 people.
Cut, Fin.

>>4046738
That's far more stupid you know.
And the red text of episode 5 proves that Erika was there.

>>4046736
>As you can see here there is no time of death involve.

Red doesn't work that way. When a death is declared in red, that person is already dead.

>>4046759
I know. Which is what I am trying to get to here. Everytime Shannon is dead is mentioned in red. It can very well be she was dead long before the game start. Anytime between the beginning of the creation of earth till when the red was stated is fine.

>>4046751
the scene is so good, Erika is on the verge of dying, then she starts presenting herself to die with dignity, says she's the 18th person and then BeaBato as a partin gift say 17h in red, i really don't know wherre the hell people heard that she denied herself, she was just going to die, nothing else

>>4046690

This is a slightly insane argument. So bear with me.

Let's talk about birth certificates. Even if a person has multiple personas in him, his birth certifciate only contains one name. This is the name recognized by the government and society.

Let us say that Shannon's birth name is Sayo deMaid. That is the name that society recognizes as referring to the unique collection of bones, organs, and meat that is Shannon.

If Kanon shares the unique collection of bones, organs, and meat that is Shannon, how can it be said that Kanon is the only one who can use the name Kanon?

Even if Kanon stands there in front of society, he will not be recognized as Kanon the independent individual, rather he will still be Sayo deMaid, wearing bindings and boys clothes. He has no valid paperwork qualifying him as an independent person.

Thus it can be said that Sayo shares the name Kanon.

That violates the Red.

>>4046772
It goes against Knox 10th rule unlike the ShKanontrice DID theory.

Nothing point to Kanon having inherited Shannon's name and being able to crossdress and fool everyone.

>>4046791
Compared to all this bullshit, thats the most normal thing i read in this thread-

The whole thing about Shannon and Kanon story is their quest to become humans, because they really think that they are "furnitures"

Everyone took this like they said "we are servants without any rights or some shit like this".

But what if they really think they aren't humans because they really were "created" for someone convenience.
Let say the original personality.
That would explain their own dilema, the thing about how they don't have the "right" to fall in love, etc...

>>4046791
Once again that's the whole question, what constitute a human?

>>4046813
Genji also calls himself furniture. So is he yet another split personality?

>>4046675
>Can two people sharing the same body be distinct and unique?
No. A person still only count as 1 person count in the red. Multipersonality count as 1 person.

>Can Kanon point at himself, and say. I am only Kanon.
He can say "I am the ONLY Kanon". Which fits the red ## The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!

>But isn't he also Shannon? They share the same body, brain, organs, existence. It can be argued that Kanon is also Shannon, and Shannon also Kanon.
Kanon can cosplay/inherit Shanon's name after she died. That does not violate any red since Shanon or anyone did not inherit Kanon's name. It is only the other way around.

>>4046841
Genji/Ronove.

>>4046787
She said she's the 18th person or that there are no more than 18 people on the island including her?

If she said she's the 18th person in red and they say she's the 17th person in red then red is completely unreliable.

>>4046848
Fantasy counterpart =/= split personality

The fantasy counterparts are most likely imaginary friends Beatrice created.

>>4046842
>>No. A person still only count as 1 person count in the red. Multipersonality count as 1 person.
Never stated anywhere, you are just bringing your own subjectivity.
Then what about episode 6 last riddle?


>>4046841
Genji is some deluded guy who served Kinzo all his life and still serve his will like some samurai.
There's no reason for Shannon and Kanon to be that way.

>>4046791
>Even if Kanon stands there in front of society, he will not be recognized as Kanon the independent individual, rather he will still be Sayo deMaid, wearing bindings and boys clothes. He has no valid paperwork qualifying him as an independent person.

>Thus it can be said that Sayo shares the name Kanon.

I don't see how Kanon not officially being Kanon makes for a violation of the red. If we go with your story, there's this guy, named Kanon, who, if you check his birth certificate, isn't even male, much less named Kanon. How is that a problem?

>>4046850
OR they just took 2 different definitions of "people".
Red text allows you to do that.

>>4046799
Already address Knox 10th here >>4046684
Also it has also been hinted by Battler's blue that speculating that name's inheritance is possible is permitted.

>>4046826
>>4046812

If we can't answer that then the whole thing is still a Devils's Proof.

The fight isn't over!

Who am I kidding. I just don't want this to be true. And if this is the best argument we've got, then..

>>4046842

I see. I like Kanon cosplaying as Shannon better.

>>4046848
This is too much...

We have Genji/Ronove, Kumasawa/Virgillia and Gaap/Nanjo.
They are the closest to Beatrice/Kinzo.
So where are Kanon and Shannon?

>>4046868

It can thus be said that Sayo shares the name Kanon, even if Kanon exists inside the head of Sayo as an independent being, because the body that they both use is identified in the paperwork as Sayo. Officially, Kanon does not exist as a person.

Even if the personalities are different, the body is still recognized as Sayo, and it can be said that Sayo shares the name Kanon. Which shouldn't be possible given the red.

Once again, plausibilty kills the Shannonkanontrice theory for me. It's just very, very, silly.

>>4046860
>Then what about episode 6 last riddle?

My Japanese wasn't that greatest, but I think those red are different because Erika is counted and Erika is not counted.

This is terrible. ShKanontrice, bomb, meta-world being some meaningless delusion and whole story being a fiction inside a fiction made by Hanyuu.

Shit, space butterflies controlling people with magic would make just as much sense.

>>4046900
teh new twins this game, Zepar and Furfur, it's quite obvious

anyone going to stream EP6 today?

>>4046927
Erika is the 17th person, that's it, she introduces herself beforer dying as the detective, the 18th person and they tell her she's the 17th, that's it

>>4046928

>meaningless delusion

Nah. It's a metaphor and a commentary on mystery fiction and Author/Audience relationships. And just because it's a metaphor doesn't mean it's not real as well. Plus the whole fiction thing has been foresahdowed.

What only matters is if he executes the whole thing well.

>>4046975
He already does not.

>>4046957
indeed. I don't see any riddle in that. The red pretty much says that there is one person who should be there, but isn't.

Kanon cosplaying Shannon is only one possible solution. Of course you might be able to come up with other pairing like Genji is cosplaying Maria. I don't know, I never investigate the other possible couple. Kanon/Shannon seems the easiest.

Relax, guys, we have one or two more of these to go. R07 is not a moron, Higurashi had a decent ending, I'm sure Umineko will too.

Look at the abomination you've created, /jp/. My god.

>>4046912
I see. I take it the problematic red is:
# The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
from episode 4, right? The way I see it, this sentence works in the following way: the word "Kanon" refers to the flesh and bones human being we might also know as "Sayo". However, just like "Kanon", "Sayo" is but a label. Pic related. (I know, MS Paint, it looks like shit, etc.) So when 34 says "Kanon", she means "that sack of bones". "That sack of bones" is inherently just that, a sack of bones. Nothing inside the object itself makes it to be "Shannon", "Sayo" or "Kanon", those are merely labels used to refer to the object.

In turn, that object can refer to itself as "Kanon". This would mean that the red means something like "That sack of bones is the only object that can make a statement about the label 'Kanon' being applied to itself where that statement is true!"

Does that make any sense?

>>4046912

Any takers? Or can I declare that until the definition of a person is stated in red, it is still reasonable to doubt the Shkanontrice theory?

Just adding a little wiggle room for the whole thing. I still think Shkanontrice is a bit silly, but it can explain EP 1-4, so I'm not that surprised if it gets confirmed.

>>4046995
hahahohwow.

>>4046996
No, just go back to bed.

>>4046975
>And just because it's a metaphor doesn't mean it's not real as well.

I hope so, because if it is then over half of the whole story is just a stupid delusion. But considering bonus tips and this whole deal with Kakeras in Higurashi it's almost certain meta world really exist.

>>4046992
Rika got hit by a truck and went back to square 1 is not a decent ending.

>>4047037
Higurashi Rei =/= Higurashi.

>>4046746
>Umineko never happened, all was Featherine's fanfiction

Stupid, Umineko DID happened, but after the incident two message bottles were found, both discribing different events that could explain what happened.

Featherine figured out the "truth" by reading BOTH, but instead of posting it or telling it to the media etc, she became an asshole and wrote 3-6, spreading the truth in it, so that other people can figure it out.

This is only an explanation as to why people in the real world can reach that truth.

>>4047037
Did you not watch episode 4 of Rei?

>>4046900


...You know, Kinzo-trice actually does sort of make a lot of sense if you look at it in a totally new light than we've been thinking of Beato.

>>4047031
what if those worlds are just created by the real game master. let's take Tohya, she created every world of umineko, she creates the kakeras and so on, she created every universe with seen with every of its outcomes, that easy
She just placed herself in Ange's universe to help her, why shouldn't they be real, you just gotta assume she writes the outlline of the game (of every game)

The true game master is Ryukishi

>>4046996

>"Sayo" is but a label.

I get your point.

The labeling of the body the is turning point for all this, that's why I brought up the example of official paperwork labeling the body as Sayo. It identifies a certain body, as a person. So I disagree with

>"That sack of bones" is inherently just that, a sack of bones.

By assigning and recording a name to something, you validate and confirm it's existence. That sack of bones has an identity, that sack of bones has a name. It's why people without names or who don't leave records behind can be said to be "non-existent". It's pretty important. That's why I consider the name "Sayo" as an integral and important part of the sack of bones, and cannot be separated from it.

I digress, but this line of thinking led me to realize something about KnK 5 and Araya Souren and Enjou Tomoe. Anyway, I don't think this argument would lead us anywhere because we're both denying the basis of our claims, "the labeling". So I'm gonna wait and see until Ryukishi defines what it means to be a person. In Red, I hope.

Gah.

Is this the only argument to be made against Shkanontrice? It's weird and too twisted. I prefer something clearer.

>>4047052
But then everything we saw never happened. It was all made by her. All the character development, interactions and everything else is different than what really happened. What we saw is a fiction inside a fiction.

This sucks beyond words.

>>4047093
I think she just observes the meta-world and then writes what she saw

>>4047093

What we saw was always a fiction. It was Beato's interpretation of the events of Rokkenjima after all.

>>4047093
we know she can't control the meta-world because she comes in at the end and makes Bern do another game

Gaap is Nanjo?
So Nanjo is a slut?

Lady gapgap

Fuck, I am confuse.

What exactly is the non-magic Featherine writing? I thought she was writing the board and the events of the meta world were left out of it.

>>4047090
How the fuck does this stupid argument get around Knox's tenth? I would say that's a pretty huge barrier to taking that argument seriously.

>>4047149
>stupid argument
You mean >>4047090 or >>4046996?

>>4047119
No, it was her interpretation of what happened from the viewpoint that magic existed. If Featherine really wrote episodes 3-6 then everything what happened in them is a 100% fiction. Fiction inside a fiction based on fiction to be exact. This is just fucking stupid.

But that's why it's not true.

is Magical Gohda Chef proved yet ?

>>4047149

Huh? Knox 10 is about disguises right? Never mentioned those.

We won't know till they clarify "people" in red.
But ShKanontrice is the only thing that can really solve episode 6 last riddle.
And a lots of the other closed room as well.

>>4047184
We need all of the read to really discuss that.

What if Kanon didn't leave the room himself but was dragged out by Battler?

Ronove - Genji
Virgilia - Kumasawa
Gaap - Nanjo
Goats - fire
Goldsmith - Kinzo
Zepar and Furfur - feelings of love between Kanon/Jessica and Shannon/George
Lucifer - Krauss
Leviathan - Kyrie
Satan - Rosa
Belphegor - Natsuhi
Mammon - Eva
Beelzebub - Hideyoshi
Asmodeus - Rudolf
Siestas - Kinzo's guns
Eiserne Jungfrau - Writers of episode 3-6
MARIA - maria
Lambdadelta - Impartial reader
Bernkastel - Opiniated reader who want to solve the mystery.

Where are Shannon and Kanon?

Sayo = 34.
If ShKanontrice is true.

R07 TOLD US FROM THE BEGINNING GUYS

>Gaap - Nanjo
How does that make sense ?

>>4047217
It's a joke.

>>4047217
>>4047220
Gaap doesn't have the One-Winged Eagle like the other magical people, so she has to be someone that's not part of the family or designated furniture. This means she's either Nanjo, Gohda, Kumasawa, Hideyoshi, or Kyrie.

She's also involved in hiding the truth of Kinzo's body, so that eliminates Gohda, Kumasawa, Hideyoshi, and Kyrie. Furthermore, she considers herself a guest, so that leaves out Kumasawa, who is a servant (and is the vessel for Virgilia anyway).

Finally, she is able to hide away corpses, which Nanjo can easily do considering he's the one that examines all the dead bodies. Gaap also has an attack that pierces like a bee sting, which fits into the idea of a syringe.

>>4047203
the satkes are just that, the paperweights fired by a gun, not the adults, that's just stupid from point 1.
Furfur and Zepar are Shanon and Kanon, not just feelings of love, that's why their eyes are light blue, they were split, also they're twins and their hats are like Shannon and Kanon's

This game was different.
The GM can write whatever stupid story he wants while he can recreate Beatrice.
Battler was trying to explain Beatrice as a huge prank played by the family. Then Erika killed his family. Then Bern sent her to the hell.

>>4047234
No, Fufur and Zepar are definitely the twisted love between Kanon/Jessica and George/Shannon.
They don't have the one winged eagle on them.

And all the scenes with really drive the point that they are the "love" between the couple.
Like the power up for Jessica and George.
Or the fact that only one love would be succesful.

And don't you think furniture as close as Shannon and Kanon were to Kinzo would be, you know, more important in the meta world.
Doesn't make sense.

>>4047254
the one winged eagle, Kumasawa doesn't have it, despite being with Kinzo for a long time, don't tell me it's under her white thing because they're forced to. Virgilia wears her pretty obviously, that theory doesn't always apply
They are important, but more important in the real world since they can actually fight and I still think it represents themselves and their doubts about love, it was just an allegory

So anyways Beatrice and Erika are 100% dead right? Way to go Ryu, killing two of the best characters like that.

>>4047267
NEXT EP: Battler dies.

Alternatively, NEXT EP: Gaap is a dickgirl.

>>4047279
>NEXT EP: Battler dies.

I'm ok with this.

>NEXT EP: Gaap is a dickgirl.

I'm.....actually okay with this.

>>4047279
>>4047304

>>4047266
They aren't just important, they are very important "furnitures" of Kinzo, and to the main plot in general.

Even without the one winged eagles, Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are close to Kinzo.
Where are Kanon and Shannon? It's just strange.

Zepar and Furfur just aren't close to Beatrice and Battler like the others, they are just there to make their thing in episode 6 and that is.

The music was so beautiful this time...

>NEXT EP: Battler dies.

I hope so. But only after Bern torture the shit out of him and Erika return.

>>4047279
>NEXT EP: Battler dies.
Not sure if want. I'd kind of like to see him go crazier first, at least. Maybe Beato will somehow come back for roughly thirty seconds to freak out at him for being such a douche. She'll just kinda disappear and go back to being dead after that, and Battler will be even more batshit and depressed.

Then he'll die. I'm okay with that.

>Alternatively, NEXT EP: Gaap is a dickgirl.
I AM SO OKAY WITH THIS THAT IT VIOLATES THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE

>>4047372
>I'd kind of like to see him go crazier first

that's unpossible