/jp/ - Otaku Culture

except that's been disproved in 5(assuming knox is being followed)

>>4027236
And confirmed in 6.

already proven false in EP5.
They all in the same room as the detective.
The detective also state in red as the detective
The detective also exist in red.

>>4027239
>not translated
>bs spoiler everywhere
>confirmed

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>4027241
Scene seen from Battler, aka unreliable narrator, POV.
17 people on the island, including Erika, confirmed in red.

Good job eating R07 poison in episode 5.

I hate this theory and anyone that perpetrates it.

>>4027241

The POV was from Battler, not Erika.

>>4027248
You are going to hate Ryukichi07 then.

As someone who is still a Shkannon hater, Shkannon was pretty much shoved into your face in bright neon lights in EP6, unfortunately. They have a goddamn duel to the death that Shannon wins; Kanon falls over dead and then his body disappears in front of Jessica, then ghost-Kanon and ghost-Beato have a discussion about how at least people who have love can see them...

>>4027248
lol

too bad nobody can be bothered going through the games properly to disprove this shannon = kanon bullshit

probably wouldn't be all that hard

>17 people on the island, including Erika, confirmed in red.

hoho I assume you have playeed the game yourself then. What is the context and the time is that red stated? Is that before the game start or while things is going on?

Dead person do not count as a person. It is more likely that one person is killed by the time that red is stated.

>>4027267
That riddle is literally the last line before the credits roll.

Erika is bragging about introducing herself as the 18th person. Beato and Battler say "Too bad, but even when you come, it's seventeen people."

>>4027252
lol how does LOLMAGIC fight proves anything.

>>4027267
That's bullshit, are you even trying?
Dead are obviously counted, that phrase in Japanese doesn't allow any loopholes, context was Battler and Beato vs Erika.
It basically was the big cliffhanger, there's a reason why the whole Umineko fanbase in Japan is currently being mindfucked.

/r/ Jessica/Kanon lesbian porn.

>>4027266
Battler never saw Shannon and Kanon together when he was the detective: that's a fact.

That theory was very popular before episode 5, there was a reason you know.

Then what about Knox's 10th?
It might also violate the 8th, even though that one is as unreliable as always.

Sorry, but I still call bullshit.

>> Knox´s 10th Commandment. The existence of twins or duplicates can only exist if the reader is warned beforehand.
There's no twins or duplicates in that theory

>>4027292
well, I think you mean Erika.
Erika saw them both together in a scene where Battler introduce them to her.

This >>4027247 dude is trying to say that this scene is not reliable since it is from Battler POV and that BS can happen right in the face of the detective - Erika.

>>4027305
We don't know what Erika saw.
We only know what the narrator, Battler, who was completely unreliable wanted us to see.
Erika wasn't the "detective" at the beginning, she got that job later.

>>4027331
No, it was stated that she was the detective at the very first moment she was introduced.

However, when the red text for "the number of people in this room equals the number of people on the island" was introduced, Piece-Battler was the narrator.

Dude, It's ShKanon and Jessitrice doing it.
Or, as I like to call it, the Xzibit theory.

>>4027331
Its in the same fucking scene. There is a reason on why none of the magic fight during EP1-4 has no piece Battler in it. Because the scene is valid if the detective is observing it.

Now you aer playing Erika was not a detective from teh beginning either? The game start with Bern playing it. Erika is her piece where she put there at the beginning of the board - if she is not the detective who is!!?

EP6 more than heavily implies Shkannontrice, but also tries to play it that Jessica x Kanon, Beatrice x Battler, and George x Shannon are all still completely legitimate love stories, which didn't exactly work for me, as hilarious as it is that the three cousins are all apparently in love with the same crossdresser.

>>4027361
So once again a slut is to blame.

if Shkanon is true then how was Shannon still around after Kanon was confirmed to be "killed" in EP2?

Ep6 eng patch when???

>>4027361
07 must be having the time of his life with this shit. So much for answer arcs.

>>4027376
Shannon "kills" Kanon in EP6. It's explicitly portrayed that way in the meta world.

>>4027376
Multiple personality disorder.
Only the persona of Kanon died in that scene.
What happen is probably that the personalities all fight for dominance in every games, Kanon was suppressed and "Shannon" killed Jessica.

Explain this red on EP3 for me.

"6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!"

How can they be the same person NOW!?

>>4027399
Because BT died

>>4027399
I don't know how to work out the technicalities. All I know is that this ep beats you over the head with it to the point that I, a passionate Shkannon hater, had to cringingly admit that it was basically a neon goddamn sign being shoved in the readers' faces.

>>4027393
>>4027397
I hope it isnt true but it makes sense...

I really hope Ryu is trolling with this shit.

>>4027399
Shannon and Kanon persona died, to only leave the Beatrice persona.
There's a reason it's called the ShKanontrice theory.

Shannon has three personalities, her, Kanon and Beatrice.
All three are linked and is in love with one of the cousins.
Battler probably caused her MPD in some way, which explain his sin

The Beatrice persona was probably weaker than Shannon and Kanon but it awakened again when she learned that Battler would come back.
That's why the murders wouldn't happen if Battler didn't come.

>>4027399
Battler never saw the corpse
and
Kanon or Shanon was already dead like Kinzo

>>4027361
I think it's not Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice, I think it's Shannon = Kanon, combined with Jessitrice. Because it being the same dude would be ridiculous.

>>4027414
Of course he does.
It's like a healthy relationship.
You beat up your wife and she still cling on you cause she thinks the fault lies in her for not understanding.

>>4027422
Jessitrice has too much holes, ShKanontrice has no big hole that I can see, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

I'll stand by it till the last Rampart falls--Episode 6 ShKannon confirmation is one giant trolling on Ryukushi's part.

I have some out of game evidence for this. Ryukushi did claim to move forward the answer that Kinzo is dead at the start of all games (probably by one episode, from 5 to 4) showing that he is aware of what we think and does alter the story (subtly) to match this. He is, after all, the GM.

If episode 6 makes it as fuck obvious as it sounds like it does, and knowing that most of us would have guessed it (or, even in people like me who deny it, consider the possibility, even disdainfully) then he would have every reason to end the game like he ended 4, by throwing out there that Shannon = Kanon.

Instead, he lets it sit for one more episode, fully aware of what we'll make of it. Why? Because he has something else up his sleeve.

>>4027422
It's almost definitely Shkannontrice, at least going by this ep's implications, outside of any potential future trolls. I think it's fucking stupid too but it was what it was.

Fuck, wait till EP6 translation is out. I will blow this shit apart. I don't have my case now - I haven't read it.

>>4027420
Oh and, it explains the early scenes of episode 2.
Like why Beatrice only interacted with Shannon and Kanon.
Why Kanon hate her so much.
Breaking the mirror could be seen as some sort of psychological sign.

And why did Kinzo bring a 6 years old girl(?) to work in his mansion?
The fact that she has MPD is probably linked to this.

>>4027399
Well, the "Kinzo" there could be a hint. Maybe Shannon or Kanon actually existed at one point, but was killed before the game started, like Kinzo. Maybe Battler's sin was murdering Shannon (or maybe accidently). Then they took another orphan, dressed him up like Shannon, and treated him like two people, breeding a split personality, to cover up Battler's sin.

When Battler returned after 6 years, maybe Shkannon remembered Battler's sin and how much he hated him, and went nuts.

Or something like that.

>>4027422

Even hating the Shkannon theory, I'm ok with this.

Since Shkannon is supposed to be flawless, anyone feeling up to walking us through all 5 translated chapters with this theory?

>>4027441
Everyone will be fapping over EP7 spoilers by the time EP6 patch is out

>>4027355
No. You're wrong. It's confirmed in Ep5 and Ep6 that just having the detective see it isn't enough. They have to narrate it.

In episode 1 Battler met Shannon on the dock when they first arrived and then shortly after met Kanon when walking up to the mansion. Explain that shit faggots.

>>4027399

more proof that red ain't worth shit anymore

The Shkannon scene was a fantasy scene.

You don't need witches flying around to make it a fantasy scene.

>>4027451

Here is the issue I have with any "went nuts" interpretation. The stunts pulled, however they were done, had to be incredibly complex. These are not the work of someone who made things up on a days notice, much less went crazy and did it. Furthermore, are you really ok with an interpretation of Beato where she's insane?

Not to mention the Red text concerning motives is completely ignored in this, albeit not directly contradicted (can a crazy person take revenge or feel pleasure?)


Now, all of this being said, I've always supported a multi-faction culprit at work.

Well, even with Shkannon true.

You still can not have him/her as the killer in all episode. EP5 for example - requires at least either George, Rosa or Jessica with Genji to commit the murder.
The killer (Beatrice) probably still change from board to board.

>>4027451
What's stated is that whoever Battler made the promise to six years ago, basically made the decision to move on and "created" Beatrice in the image of Battler's ideal woman to love Battler in her place as she "pursued her own happiness".

No, I don't fucking get it either, but that's what it said.

>>4027456
Ep1:
Shannon's body was "identified" by Hideyoshi and Nanjo.
Only Nanjo came close though, so of course he could be lying.
Kanon was holding a big bag before, a corpse could be inside.

Kanon was mortally injuried. Once again only Jessica and Nanjo approached him.
His death was never declared in red.
Then it's easy, especially with Jessica, Nanjo and probably Maria as his accomplices.
And don't forget the explosion at the end.

Solved.

You Shannon = Kanon fags are insane. At this point in time you are just trolling.

I hate this shit though. R07 pulls this big thing about trust and how we should have all the tools to solve the game by 5, but then 6 is a confusing mess.

>>4027504
The saying that Umineko is a series about trolling exists for a reason.

>>4027504
It's not really confusing. Most of stuff in Ep. 6 are actually kinda predictable.

>>4027499
Half of them are trolls who don't believe the theory, the other half are retards.

>>4027497

Sure, sure. So then at this point in time, Shannon's body double has been killed, so Shannon/Kanon is, for the remainder of this game, Kanon.

So tell me, where was Kanon when Eva and Hideyoshi were murdered? How did he set up that trap?

How did he get the letter into the Study?

The first game has the least amount of Red Text. You can prove almost anyone COULD have done it.

>>4027499

Then how do you explain the number of people on the Island? They're the only characters that don't appear in the same room with Battler for the first 4 games.

Episode 6:
Moe Beatrice get back some memories.
In them she is talking with Battler about his favorite type.
He mentions Jessica and George in the third person, so he can't be talking to them.
Seeing the way he talks, he obviously talking to someone close to his age.

Another scene, Battler remembers his promise.
In the same scene he says something akin to "can forgetting one first love be considered as a betrayal?".

Who is Battler first love?
SHANNON, clearly stated in episode 4.

>>4027542

Furthermore, we lack any evidence that Kanon would have had a way to cajole Nanjo into helping him.

>>4027542
Jessica works with him, how many times do I have to repeat that?
It's not she isn't fucking suspicious.

Murder with the chain is easy, remember who was in front door first?
Or who "broke" the chain?

Do we have any Maria = culprit theories?

>>4027548
And then the human Beatrice was apparently based off of goes on about how she can't love Battler anymore, and has to pursue her own happiness, so she's making Beatrice as Battler's ideal woman to keep loving him and waiting for him in her place as she moves on as a completely different person.

It was fucking weird.

>>4027562

Curious indeed. But there's one thing. All of the evidence you present in episode one would hint that Kanon is fucking suspicious (and on this front, I do not deny. I agree that he likely survived the basement, and most likely shot Natsuhi at the end of the episode)

But there is nothing in episode one that isn't solved by an alliance of Jessica and Kanon. There is no need for the body double to be a double. Maybe Jessica, for some reason, hated Shannon, and killed her, then used her plans for closed rooms to simulate the Golden Witch's Revival.

Kanon culprit=Ok. Shannon Culprit= Ok. Jessica culprit= Super. All three=Why the fuck not.

>>4027563
Maria is likely an accomplice or knows about everything, but it's unlikely she's the main mastermind.

But taking Ep. IV into account it's possible that Kinzo chosed her as the next head before his death.

>>4027612

That would explain the Ring...

The whole ring issue, if solved, would explain alot. Somehow, between Kinzo's death and the disposal of the body, the ring got into somebody's hands. Not only that, but if episode 5 is to be believed, Natsuhi didn't notice or was lead to believe it wasn't an issue.

This is Natsuhi we're talking about here.

>>4027612

I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

>>4027658
Now I can't get that line out of my head again

So Episode 1 is solved easily by ShKanontrice, what about the other episodes?

Episode 2:
Rosa and Maria meet Shannon in her Beatrice mode.
Shannon tell her she knows where is the gold and that she could share it with her if she follows her plan.
Rosa being a greedy whore accept.
Kyrie saw this, but Rosa and Shannon manage to convince her it's a shame to mindfuck Natsuhi and Krauss.

First twilight happens, the closed room of the chapel is easy so no worth talking about it.
Jessica and Kanon's deaths: Kanon body disappeared as usual but he was confirmed dead in the same room as Jessica.
What does it mean? For some reason Kanon's persona was "killed" by Shannon or Beatrice, who then proceeded to kill Jessica.
Same for Shannon and George, in the end only the Beatrice persona lived.

Zombie Kanon was of course simply ShKanontrice still alive, with Nanjo's help they did this to scare the other and make them paranoid.

Rosa followed the plan to the end but didn't know about the bomb.
Genji, Nanjo and Battler died in the explosion, Rosa and Maria tried to run away from the radius but was caught and died.

Is there any way to insert the pony theory into this Shkannon(trice) shit, without making Shkannon or Jessica Beato?

Waitnothereisnot. Shipfaggy dreams are crushed.

As much as I hate to admit it and think that it's as contrived as ever, despite it being R07, ShKannontrice is so far the most plausible theory out there.

Hopefully R07 is just leading us into a huge trap and building up for a twist at the end.

What a slut.

I've just finished skimming through EP6. Can anyone who's actually read the episode answer two questions of mine please?

1. Who was the person in the chained room?
2. What the fuck happened in the ??? Tea Party?

All the people in this thread supporting Shannon = Kannon.

Please stand. On one leg.

>>4027797
You have something better?

>>4027794
1) The person in the chained room was Meta-Battler. Erika, Bern, and Lambda locked him into his own closed room to be tortured as punishment after he lost the first twilight to them.
2) Hanyuu and Bern trollin'.

>>4027753

Flaws:

First, in regards to the Zombie Kanon, I find it unconvincing that Shanon would be able to vanish out of sight, costume change, change back and claim to have seen Kanon in that time, without anyone getting a LITTLE suspicious. Will you claim that Genji and Ghoda were in on it too? Both are apparently impartial witnesses?

Second, If we start counting the personality as it's own person, then doesn't there come the issue of his numbering as a human being? I've heard people claim he counts for the numbering, and then take that back.

Third: The entire plotline involving Rosa could, like Game one, have been a number of people, or just Shannon or Kanon as different people.

>>4027797
Shkannon's level of reasoning is possible for Ryukishi.

>>4027814

Sure. Multiple culprits, like say, Shannon and Jessica working either Tandem or unaware of each other, accomplishes just as much. Not to mention one of the adults could have a plot.

I could, with enough energy, come up with Shanon=Beato, Kanon, Jessica=Culprits, and have it all work out just as well. Combining the two of them causes NOTHING but squick.

>>4027831
Genji most likely follow some plan that Kinzo made before his death.
So he may be into it too, though not for the same reason.
Gohda is easily manipulable.

-That's the loophole of the red text, what is a person? If Shannon and Kanon consider themselves to be two different persons, does the red text work or not?

-Yeah but it worked that way.

>>4027757
>Is there any way to insert the pony theory into this Shkannon(trice) shit, without making Shkannon or Jessica Beato?

They didn't swap places. Shannon would be Beatrice.
What now?

>>4027871

1. I'll allow....after all, I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

3, is a stalemate by definition.

2 is the point of contention...my problem is that you want things both ways. Kanon is an individual when it works for you, and is not included when it doesn't. You see where I find a problem with this?

>>4027815
>The person in the chained room was Meta-Battler. Erika, Bern, and Lambda locked him into his own closed room to be tortured as punishment after he lost the first twilight to them.
So Episode 6 is essentially tl;dr: Battler is incompetent?

>>4027916
Yeah. Battler ended up being kind of a hilariously shitty GM. Although I kinda liked his style of using the red; his response to 90% of Erika's prompts was "I acknowledge it."

>>4027916

Battler is incompetent? I guess the Red really is infallible. Go figure.

Battler is just getting his bearing on his new position like in episode 2. There's no way he'd remain incompetent, right?

Let me see. What's said in red? "There's 17 people on this island including Erika"
or "There's no more than 17 people on this island including Erika" ?

>>4027924
Didn't he understand fucking everything at the end of 5? How can he continue to be an incompetent failure?

If I've read correctly, it is

>"There's 17 people on this island including Erika"

>>4027969
Including you (talking to Erika), there's 17 persons.

>>4027815
>2) Hanyuu and Bern trollin'.

I know that much, but what are they planning to do? Bern seemed far too delighted with whatever she found out.

>>4027969
The exact line was simply, "It's 17 people."

>>4027950
Considering it took 2 more episodes to get competent, I'd say yes.

>>4027986
even GM battler cant defeat Hanyuu's magic

>>4028003
Well, all he has to do is go back to episode 2 & 3 mode, and Endless Nine it away.

>>4028003
I guess, but what are AuAu and Bern planning to do? Can I ask for a small summary, or some highlights for the ??? Tea Party?

Dear readers:

Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

Try again.

>>4028021
Something about how Bernkastel hasn't uncovered Beatrice's heart yet, and Hanyuu is sending her to pull it out, or something, along with general trolling. I wasn't exactly reading carefully because I didn't give a shit about Bern and Hanyuu so take that with a grain of salt.

Also:

Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are not murderers

>>4028038

Hi. Anti-Shkannon leader here. I noted that, but I thought such a move was too insluting to even try. I am shamed, but that Red Truth...is Ineffective.

It says, specifically, that regarding the "Unidentified" corpses, no body doubles exist. Shannon along with (IIRC) Krauss, are the only two who'se faces are half visible. In short, Shannon is an identified corpse, and thus, a body double is permitted to exist.

>>4028038
Shannon's body was identified by Nanjo and Hideyoshi and therefore the red text doesn't work on her.
Doesn't say that Nanjo, the only one who came close to her body, can't be LYING.

Try harder.

>>4028052
Of course not.

Genji is Ronove, Kumasawa is Virgilia, and Nanjo is Gaap.

By the way, that particular line of red text specifically refers to that one scene in Episode 1.

>>4028052
Accomplice =/= murderer.

>>4028065
Good enough for now.

>>4028046
I see, it seems shit will hit the fan in EP7.

Anyway, fuck it Battler are your incompetence. He's the fucking GM who supposedly has reached the truth and he got beat in the 1st Twilight.

Anyhow, I had my doubts about Moe-Beato, but she was definitely awesome. I really liked how she saved Battler's ass at the end. "You're a 1000 years too early to seduce Battler." FUCK YEAH.

>>4028097
Well, hopefully Ryukishi will have recovered from the shock of BT's death by then and gives us a full episode of Battler being competent.

In the end, I've only ever heard how it works for the first two, and I have, at the very least, proven that the Shkannon solution could work for a number of other groups.

Perhaps this flawless theory is not so flawless.

>>4028065

"No body doubles exist" is said on it's own, not "no body doubles of the aforementioned unidentified corpses"

>>4028125

It isn't flawless, believers of it rely on denying red text and knox's commandments and the fact Erika saw them together and the fact Ryukishi used almost the exact same trick in Watanagashi-hen/Meakashi-hen.

>>4028128

Interesting Reading. Let's pull up the presice Red.

RED
>Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!
/RED

So...I see Namimi's point. It is said that no body doubles exist. Not specifically regarding the unidentified corpses.

Knox's Tenth: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.

Knox's Eighth: It is forbidden for the case to be solved with clues that are not presented.

Knox's Sixth: It is forbidden for accident or intuition to be employed as a detective technique.

>>4027987
>>4027983
>>4027985

I could say "including you, erika, there's 3 people on this island"

It's still the truth.

>>4028128
>>Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

Not say on its own, the "no body double tricks" is the conclusion of the first line.
Try harder.

>>4028138

Well supported. But we have one final hurdle to overcome

In game 6, Battler says "Including Erika, there are 17 people."

Also, for the Record, in Game 5, Lambda(or is it Bern) says "Furudo Erika only increased the head count by one."

So where is the missing person?

>>4028148
"Therefore" imply that this is the conclusion of the first line.
Red text mindfuckery but the loophole is big enough.

>>4028149
In english maybe.
In japanese it was pretty clear and didn't left any doubt.

>>4028164

Shit... I can think of a way around this, but I'm against Shkannon.

>>4027987
>>4027983
>>4027985

I could say "including you, erika, there are 3 people on this island"

It's still the truth.
Grammar fix.

>>4028174
>>4028186

.. I don't get it. What would be a proper translation, then?!

>>4028148
>>Knox's Tenth: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues.
Nobody is disguising themselves as anybody though.
Shannon, Kanon and "Beatrice" have been that way since the beginning, they aren't taking the place of anyone.

>>Knox's Eighth: It is forbidden for the case to be solved with clues that are not presented.
Lots of clues.

>>

Knox's Sixth: It is forbidden for accident or intuition to be employed as a detective technique.
Once again lots of clues.

>>4028117
I don't think BT's death had any major impact on this game. Personally, I think Battler's behaviour would have been the same in EP6 whether BT died or not. I think many things built up to this moment, starting from EP3.

Anyway, Battler stopped being a jerk to moe-Beato mid-game. After that, they started getting along quite nicely.

>>4028185
That's what you all do.
You cry because you think is stupid, like any other explanations are actually not.

>>4028185

I know, it froze me too. There doesn't seem to be any way around it.

Eva-trice should be able to build a web this sturdy...

>>4028198
Wait for witch hunt.
Anyways there's no loophole, that's why the Umineko fanbase in Japan is so busy arguing over what this mean.

Anyone streaming?

>>4028199

List those clues.

>>4028164
The only way I can see to get around that is if one of the two was never on the island during the conference in the first place and the other pretends to be them for some reason. Seems kind of silly though.

>>4028215
http://www.livestream.com/seacatsbgm/old

>>4028171

Knox's Second: It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique.

Therefore, any clue gained from the red can't be considered a 'clue'.

>>4028209

I'm going to show off and say my way around it anyway.

The red text said "there were no more than 17 people on the island"

if there were 16 to begin with, and Erika adds one, that makes 17

>>4028203

But Shkannon is a special kind of stupid. It just manages nothing, seems to go against everything Ryukushi has said about the game regarding it's relation to Higs, is overly complicated, and seems to fuck with every single paring in the game simultaneously.

That said, don't be sour. We acknowledged the power of that Red truth. What more do you want?

Smelly, dumb Shannon = Kanon scum.

>>4028241
Nothing.
Just pointing out that all your theories are stupid.

>>4028199

I'd say that if you're usually thought of as one person, and you change your appearance to that of another person, it'd be considered a 'disguise'. If they have the same body, then they'd have to disguise themselves to create three appearances.

The other two points, I haven't seen any clues towards, I think?

>Meushijyo
I like this person cause he thinks Shannon = Kanon is bullshit. AS SHOULD ALL PEOPLE.

>>4028235

Well, I guess I should get serious too.

16+Erika would work, and is the basis for the idea that the theory is confirmed, as the missing person is a part of Shkannon? Who would be the missing person from your 16?

Furthermore, allow me to speak.

If, say, Kanon is not counted as a person under this Red, then how can he be counted in all the other Red text and counts he's listed in. No having things both ways.

Also, it is possible that somehow Erika is not actually a Human piece during the 6th game.

Can someone just give a quick summary of what goes on in this episode, twilights and death specifics included?

>>4028222
Kanon's body always disappear.
Zombie Kanon in episode 2.
Explain the way George acted in Episode 3.
Shannon knew about Natsuhi's favorite season in episode 5.

>>4028262
No, disguise implies trying to be something you aren't.
Doesn't work if Shannon, Kanon and "Beatrice" really believe that they are what they are.

>>4028285

If Shkanon posseses both the names Shannon and Kanon, then if Shkanon died, it would be correct to say "Shannon died" and "Kanon died"

it would be the same as saying "the king of pop is dead" and "michael jackson is dead"

>>4028241
>>seems to fuck with every single paring in the game simultaneously.
That's why I love it.

>>4028297

>Kanon's body always disappear.
this would suggest Kanon may not exist, but not that he is Shannon. That is an assumption with no evidence behind it.

>Zombie Kanon in episode 2.
What's your point?
>Explain the way George acted in Episode 3.
Again, what's your point?

>Shannon knew about Natsuhi's favorite season in episode 5.
This suggests Shannon might be "the man from 19 years ago", not that she is Kanon.

>>4028297

None of that has anything to do with Shkanon, though. Actually, in Ep 3, it goes against it, right? Shannon and Kanon were found dead in separate rooms, dammit....

And, as we all should know by now, Natsuhi's season could have been 'known' by anyone.

I don't know why everyone is going on about the favorite season bit, it's one of the easiest tricks in the book. e.g. hide 4 different cards in 4 different places.

>>4028308

Fine, but then whenever Shannon dies, Kanon dies, and vice versa.

So then, is that 1 death or two. Remember the Red in Episode 3, Twilight one.

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

Or in Episode 4,

Kanon is dead. Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. In short, he was the 9th victim.

>>4028333
>Fine, but then whenever Shannon dies, Kanon dies, and vice versa.
IT'S KINDA HARD NOT TO DIE IN A GAME WHERE EVERYONE DIES.

>>4028324

Yes, I believe me and Namomo are trying to fight each other in order to disprove the theory, so of course, our argument would lead to such a thing.

Speaking of which, I'm looking for Battler/Kinzo TTGL glasses picture. It feels appropriate.

>>4028324
Why would he goes to the main mansion by jumping off a fucking windows?

>>4028322
Clues can be interpretated in different ways, doesn't change the fact that they are clues

>>4028297
The season thing isn't even worth mentioning. The culprit could have easily hidden four different cards with the names of the seasons on them in the room, and then told Natsuhi to find the card corresponding to her answer

>>4028333

Well done! You have disproved Shannon = Kanon!

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE?

I don't understand why Ryu is forcing himself to write just because BT "wouldn't want that". If he himself is not enjoying writing it anymore, what's the point?

>>4028333
>>4028352
You know that this thread isn't really about ShKanon but ShKanontrice.
Which imply that there's 3 personalities, not 2.
Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice.

Read the thread from the beginning.

>>4028352

And yet, the 6th Episode's Red Truth persists, like an unmovable wedge. While we can sight so much evidence against it, we cannot disprove it because of this wedge.

>>4028333
>>4028352
Not entirely. Shannon or Kanon could be dead before the games start, like with Kinzo. This would also remove the problem of bodies, same with Kinzo.

>>4028369

If Shkanon is false, Shkanontrice is false too.

>>4028306

That's no good, in a mystery sense. The thinking process of the culprit has nothing to do with the detective's view of their appearance, right? In this case, I guess you could call it an 'unintentional disguise'.

>>4028282

Well, it does kill characterization for a number of people, after all.
Also, I forgot, but what about the red text '6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!'?

>>4028379

Yet he is still counted among the 5 in Kyrie's group.

....That said, I hate to say it, but the possibility exists that Jessica was a part of the group after all, either she was threatening Kyrie, or Kyrie was threatening her...

>>4028333

....kusoooo....

Aren't we given a complete order for when the group in episode 4 are killed? If we are this could screw things up a bit.

>>4028381
Are you even trying?
Shannon and Kanon dead, in ep3 or 4 for example, doesn't mean that the Beatrice personality is dead.
That's the point of the thread.

>>4028381
Where the fuck have you been the last few games?

This theory brings out the worst things in people.

>>4028379

Oh yeah?

>>>/rs/Only_the_victims_are_inside_the_rooms!

So both Shannon and Kanon are in the room.

Also

>>>/rs/The_6_people_died_instantly!

>>4028383
>>That's no good, in a mystery sense. The thinking process of the culprit has nothing to do with the detective's view of their appearance, right? In this case, I guess you could call it an 'unintentional disguise'.
That's retarded.
A disguise is a disguise, don't try to mold the rule like you want.

>>4028383
Read the fucking thread from the beginning.

Fucking RP faggot from /a/ who hijack a thread without even reading its content.

>>4028412
Some people don't like to see the truth.
I will laugh a lot if this and the bomb are confirmed, delicious tears everywhere.

>>4028422

Indeed. He is an interesting piece to use, isn't he...

>>4028414
How does that contradict a pregame death of either Shannon or Kanon, and one of them pretending to be the other?

>Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!

Haha holy shit, just realized that doesn't really say anything. "Regarding x, something involving not(x) is guaranteed" WHAT?

>>4028443

If the victims are in the room, and they died instantly, it implies they all died in the room.

This is what I was hoping you'd think. I was trying to mislead you.

>>4028476
>Intentional logical fallacies

We really need a "What I read (EP6), what I expected (GM Battler burning the witches and raping Erika), what I got (b0mb ShKanon Jessitrice AU AU EYERAPE yandereBattler)"

>>4028476
Hah, you fail! As punishment, marry this bitchy Rika clone or something. Apparently its worse than being fed to goats.

>>4028422

Who's molding? You're just trying to get around it by using assumptions to say it isn't a disguise.

dis·guise

1 a : to change the customary dress or appearance of b : to furnish with a false appearance or an assumed identity

Personality has nothing to do with this.

Other hints about Shannon MPD theory.
Battler didn't recognize her at first, saying that the whole mood around her was very different 6 years ago.
George said that she used to be far more calm and in a way mature when she was a child.

>>4028476

Furthermore, even if Nanjo is on the villain's side, Riger Mortis, decay, and other signs...there is a reasons Kinzo's body needed to be burned.

>>4028508
Split personality is like that... OH FFFFUUU

>>4028498

Sorry, I'm already married.

>>4028508
People can change in 6 years you know.

>>4028504
>>to change the customary dress or appearance of b : to furnish with a false appearance or an assumed identity

That's where you are molding.
If we think that Shannon, Kanon and "Beatrice" were created from scratch, then the way they dress is their normal way.
Basically the Kanon's personality dress like Kanon, the Shannon personality dress like Shannon, the Beatrice personality dress like Beatrice (notice how she doesn't wear a dress unlike the portrait.)

Therefore it's not a disguise, this is just their usual clothes.
That's all.

>>4028516
Yeah but if you think about R07 usual I DON'T KNOW SUBTLETY way of writing.
There's a reason why it was mentioned, twice.

>>4028515

You know, I never noticed before, but apparently Erika Resembles a character who resembles a character who resembles a character who resembles a character from Ryukushi's first work.

Bricks.

>>4028530

So, you're counting the personalities as seperate people, rather than one person who possesses their own identity, and takes on the appearance of others due to a disorder?

>>4028544
Ryukishi is a hack and long blue hair lolis are his fetish. Your point?

So is there any more Golden Truth in Ep6?

I want to know the real nature of it. Everyone seems CONVINCED that it is "absolute truth" or something, despite the fact that a few pages before Dlanor says that only the truth of humans can show Kinzo is dead.

What "the truth of humans" is, I have no fucking idea, so I was hoping that Episode 6 had another example of it.

>>4028561
If the red truth think of them as different persons, I don't see why Knox wouldn't.
In the context of the game that is.

>>4028574

If so, then the unbreakable truth of episode 6 has another solution.

>>4028574

Got you.

If they're seperate people, then that's 3 more people than allowed.

You either have to accept that the one person is disguising themselves, or that they're seperate people in one body.

either way, Shannon = Kanon is disproven.

>>4028333
What if Shanon and Kanon are long dead even before the game began? There may be some mysterious person playing both roles now.

>>4028566
Yes. It said that Beato made a leaf in a cup, and it was splendid magic.

Ryukishitrollface.jpg

>>4028596

I'm trudging through all the bullshit Erika is spewing while confronting Natsuhi.
How does she prove that Kinzo is not outside(In the forest) on the gameboard?
Also, I laughed when she broke the knox 2 but slaps Battler on the wrist for doing the same.

>>4028596
Actually that's once again the whole point of ShKanontrice.

Erika says "there's 18 person including me" in red.
She manages to do this because she think of Kanon and Shannon as different persons, with their own individualities

Battler and Beato say "Including you there's 17 persons" once again in red.
It works because they both know the truth, that Shannon and Kanon are really the same person suffering from MPD.

You can't lie with the red truth, but it's something that is still subjective.

>>4028566
Unless he can prove it through normal human means, like Erika's seals, then elevate it to red truth, it doesn't count, is pretty much Dlanor's argument. Why this argument can be used every other time that red has been used, I don't really understand. However when the GM uses gold truth he is exempt from all "human" requirements.

>>4028530

In that case, they'd be in disguise all the time.

Let's say that, as separate personalities, they're each considered a person. (Otherwise, how would you get past stuff like the 6 people red text?)

As Shannon, Beatrice and Kanon would be 'disguised as Shannon'. As Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon would be 'disguised as Beatrice'. As Kanon, Beatrice and Shannon would be 'disguised as Kanon'. The two that aren't in use are in disguise.

>>4028629

Again, you fail the contradiction. Sometimes Kanon and Shannon are counted as two. Othertimes, you argue it's counted as one. Can the Red truth not even be internally consistent?

Here is another theory:

What if there is one Kanon/Joshua/Kazuya, but TWO Shannons? There is Sayo, the girl who loves George, and Shannon, the one who Battler promised a pony and trades places with Kanon/Joshua/Kazuya. Battler said that the Shannon from 6 years ago is nothing like the Shannon of today.

I think the only real twist with Shannon and Kanon is that they really are brother and sister. They look too similar.

>>4028629

Not true.

To Battler's point of view in ep 4, Asumu Ushiromiya would have been his mother, and yet, he couldn't say it in red.

Red is objective. If it's not true, it can't be said.

>>4028629
Erika said "I'm the 18th person"

B&B said "No, there's 17."

Why are these people engaging in a pseudo-intellectual RP battle? At this point I think it's best to just enjoy the ride and wait for answers to show up in the next episodes. No point in getting agitated. In b4 "you stopped thinking"

>>4028640
>>Can the Red truth not even be internally consistent?
Do you know what subjective mean?


>>4028636
Never did we see what seemed to be Shannon acting like Kanon or something like this.
So no disguise.

>>4028629

Erika's the detective, though. She saw them together many, many times.

>>4028644

Oh, you believe the pony theory?

Let me disprove that too.

There has been no clues that a pony was promised to anyone.

>>4028655
They didn't say that.
Erika: Hello, I'm the 18th person of the island.

BeaBatt: Sorry but including you there's 17 persons on the island.

That's all, of course the point was to mindfuck Erika, but it's beside the point, you should only look at the red text.

>>4028662

Of course I do...but by that logic, can we really trust the "17" Red Text?

>>4028666
No she didn't.
The scenes where they were together in ep5 were seen from Battler's POV, an UNRELIABLE POV.
That point was addressed in episode 6.

If you execute Erika in EP6, she completely disappears.
Erika does not existed

>>4028674

Someone died after the game started, but before that red text was said, meaning 18 people at the start of the game, 17 at that moment in time.

>>4028666
When? The only proof in red are generic phrases like "everyone gathered in the same room". Erika is never with both when she is the detective, and she doesn't see them both at the same time in the board during EP6 where she is always the detective.

Only time Battler saw them both together in the board, a little bit later he saw Kinzo alive lol.

>>4028657

You stopped thinki-...

>>4028662

What? I'm saying that if they're separate people in the same body, then two out of the three personalities are in disguise.

>>4028683
Erika truly believes that there's 18 persons on the island because she think of Kanon and Shannon as different persons.
Kanon and Shannon themselves believes that they aren't the same person, that's a basis of MPD.

Therefore the red text work for Erika statement.

But Beatrice and Battler who know better couldn't say this, because they know that Shannon = Kanon, that's why they say there's 17 people.

Not hard.

>>4028657

Because if I'm not distracted by threads like this /v/ gets upset.

>>4028696

Erika sees them together in the first scene with Erika in it.

>>4028707
>>What? I'm saying that if they're separate people in the same body, then two out of the three personalities are in disguise.

The whole point of MPD is that they really believe that they are what they are, therefore it's not a disguise, how many time do I have to repeat myself?

>>4027241
Erika - fictional character.
trollface.jpg

>>4028674
Re-read the scene again.

>>4028696

That seems odd. What about in Kinzo's study? During that Natsuhi persecution scene?

>>4028685

Erika's the detective, though. If she saw them together, they were together. Battler's POV shouldn't be related to that at all...

>>4028743
You're just assuming she saw them, though. It's not from her viewpoint therefore there is no confirmation that Erika actually saw the two of them.

>>4028743
>>Erika's the detective, though. If she saw them together, they were together. Battler's POV shouldn't be related to that at all...
Too bad R07 doesn't think the same way you do.
Anyways, if the narrator isn't the detective the scene can't be trusted, said in the fuckin game itself so it's not even worth discuting anymore.

>>4028740

No. You either can't disprove what I said, so you're trying to distract me, or you're trying to force an alternate interpretation onto me that's clearly false.

Either state your point clearly or keep quiet.

This 17 vs 18 thing is worse than "It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that Ushiromiya Battler was born" vs "Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son".

>>4028743
The problem is that we don't know what she saw.

We only know what Battler saw.

>>4028716
The red text tells only the truth, not what the speaker believes to be the truth. You simply cannot have it both ways like that.

>>4028696

Erika saw them together when she was presenting her theory to everyone on the family. Hasn't she?

>>4028688
It shows the state of body after death. Erika vanquished so there were no remains.

>>4028752

Unless you put some thought in.

Erika said she was the 18th person, she would know there were 17 people if she assembled everyone using her detective powers and realized that either Shannon or Kanon wasn't there.

>>4028771
Actually you can, it's been said in the fucking game again and again.
That's why Battler used the golden truth at the end of episode 5.
With the red, you can't lie, but you can play on words.
Which is the whole point of the 17 vs 16 and Shannon = Kanon, a play on words.

Well, it looks like I've truly divided /a/ into war. Goody!

The problem with EP5 and EP6 is that Erika doesn't want to solve the puzzle as much as she wants to find a solution, even if she needs a hammer to nail the fucking last piece that doesn't fit into it. So her theories are shitty because she works like the real world police: Find a culprit. Any culprit.

>>4028798

Aren't we on /jp/, though?

>>4028810

>>4028725

Let's say that there's some method of hypnosis that allows a person to think that he's someone else.

Additionally, let's say that person Z knows this method of hypnosis, and uses it on person X, making him believe he's person Y.

As person Y, he commits a crime, dressed as person Y, and believing he's person Y. Afterwards, the hypnosis is reversed, and person X has no memory of the hypnosis or the crime.

Who dunnit? Would you say person Y did it? Person Y doesn't really exist, so can you say that he was a separate person, who committed the crime? Would a detective say 'person Y did it', or 'person X, thinking he was some imaginary person Y, disguised as this person Y, did it'?

ITT: Intentional Logical Fallacies

>>4028692
Good move, Namimimomomimimomomomo. We've seen time and time again that one of the main traps of the red text is that it doesn't specify time.

>>4028819
Try again in an understandable way.

>>4028779
;_;

Even though she was a bad girl, I can't help but feel that she was just being used by Bern.

>>4028819
Person X's body committed the crime even with the persona of person Y so I still say X did it.

>>4028760

In that case, did Erika ever have a POV?

My...My...little Gray Cells....I can't...is...this the end?

>>4028843
Bern's using everyone for entertainment. If they fail this, they die, which is also entertaining.

>>4028819

That very clearly violates one of the Knox's laws.

>>4028843
Erika didn't even look like that in real life, Bern just created a Mary Sue based on the real Erika and stuck it on the island for the lulz.

>This thread

>>4028789
Using the red to troll with devious word play is different to the claim being made here. Trolling with the red is most enjoyable and one of the best parts of the playing with the game, but it's not even remotely the same as being able to lie with the red because you were unaware that it was not the truth.

>>4028839

In a mystery, a detective will never see inside a person's head. You can't say two people look like different people, but aren't in disguise because they don't think they are. Especially without clues.

>>4028864
what is this i don't even

>>4028839

... it is understandable. Try reading it again, will you?

>>4028759
What was the explanation for that one, anyway?

>>4028860

What, do you mean the fourth? This is just an example that replaces MPD with hypnosis, to put it into perspective.

>>4028889
Kyrie switched Asumu's Battler with her own child, gave that Battler to one of Kinzo's servants, who went walking out with Natsuhi one day...

How about this move.

If Erika is the detective, then she is thrust with the problem of 17 people, shouldn't she have only ever seen 16 other people from the beginning? Even if we don't see what she sees, such a red truth could not confuse her, because she should know what she sees.

>>4028867
Yeah but you can know only one side of that "red truth", which is what happen with Erika.
Erika doesn't lie when she say there's 18 persons, she isn't wrong either; that's why she could say it.
That's the whole point, a play on word.

What is a person? That's where the subjectivity lies.

>>4028904
But didn't the stuff with Natsuhi happen 19 years before? Wouldn't that mean Battler's age is faked? Or is it a loophole like "Battler is 18 years 11 months" lol.

>>4028905
We don't know what she saw, she could have seen Shannon and Kanon alternatively.

>>4028868
>> You can't say two people look like different people, but aren't in disguise because they don't think they are
Why not?
Once again LOOPHOLE, stop trying to see things that aren't there, disguise is a specific word.

>>4028906
WHAT IS A MAN

A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS

But if there are 17 people including Erika then isn't Erika real?

Jesus. I think this is the 3rd thread I've gone through today, mostly regarding Shkannon.

>>4028939
Erika is real, the red text of episode 5 prove it.
Beatrice and Battler just mindfucked her.

In Ep5 they introduced everyone to Erika, so how did either Kanon or Shannon slide by her "detective prospective"?

>>4028946
People have stopped thinking about the other theories apparently, persisting in just this one. Kind of sad.

>>4028953
Well try to think about another theory then.
Nobody stop you.

The conclusion I'm reading here is that the pro-SKannontrice faction are ignoring contradictions by the use of obviously retarded definitions that can't be disproved further because it's just obviously inherently retarded/wrong.

Just like every other faction, I suppose, but trying to have the best of both worlds is cute.

>>4028952
Read the thread again.

>>4028953
Ok let's talk about b0mb.

>>4028963
There's no contradictions posted in this threads, only loopholes.

Also from ep6:
Kanon and Shannon lives in the same room, sleep in the bed
And this was stated:
-If Shannon quit her job, Kanon will also quit
-If Shannon accepts George proposal, she will never go back to Rokkenjima and will separate from Kannon (implied forever).
-If Kanon wins (what, I don't know) then he will take care of both Shannon and Jessica.
If Shannon wins, she will leave the island with Kanon
-If Kanon admit that he loves Jessica, he and Shannon will have to settle things seriously between each other
-Shannon's happiness hurt Kanon
-Shannon and Kanon exist by hurting each other.
-If Shannon wins, Kanon will have to leave and never see Jessica again

>>4028928

It's not a loophole at all. If they're the same person, it's a disguise. If they aren't the same person, then they violate the person number limit in various red.

MPD isn't any different from the hypnosis I described. If I suddenly gained another personality and made myself look like someone else, it'd still be a disguise. Even if I didn't know it was happening.

>>4028961

...
WE HAVE. PERSISTANTLY.

RAGE.

There is nothing in the plot layout above that requires Shannon and Kanon to be the same person. There are no particular feats that can only be accomplished by them being the same person. Jessica, Shannon, Kanon, maybe even george, some combination could have done it, along with some unrelated adult force. There is NOTHING special about Shakanon.

If you mean alternate theories to the Episode 6 red, then that is the principle topic of discussion right now, and we've laid out a number of possibilities.

>>4028976

>If Shannon accepts George proposal, she will never go back to Rokkenjima and will separate from Kannon (implied forever).

Shannon accepted it in Ep 1, and Kanon still appeared after that.

>>4028984
MPD is pretty different from hypnosism.
It's a question of self-perception.

And you are right, it's a waste of time, you guys are really trying hard to ignore the obvious.
Anyways just wait for episode 6 and all the hints of Shannon = Kanon.

>>4028992
She didn't accept in ep1, she didn't give him the answer.
And it's probably why she "died".

>>4028999
The ring on the finger was prove that she accepted.

>>4028999
And she accepted it in EP2, and Kanon died like immediately after... holy shit.

>>4028987
Who could kill Nanjo in episode 3?
Who appeared before Battler, Jessica, George and Maria at the end of episode 1?
Where was Kanon's body in episode 2 and 4?

Shkannon is lame, let's talk about the B0MB

>>4029008
Yeah and she died immediately after.

>>4028993

I'd like to hear how it's different.

>>4029022
Self-perception, learn what it means.
It's a question of ego.

>>4029012

Kanon's body in 2 and 4 doesn't really require explanation. Thrown out the window or hidden by the culprit.

Nanjo was killed by Kyrie, or Beatrice who entered the island later.

Beatrice entered the island at the end of Ep 1.

>>4029043
>Kanon's body in 2 and 4 doesn't really require explanation.

You stopped thinking

>>4029020
You know what, I'm going to come up with some twisted logic to counter this Shkannon nonsense, I have enough leeway to do it.

>>4029031

You won't explain it to me? I don't think anything I've heard about self-perception can make one person into two people.

>>4029043
>> Beatrice who entered the island later
And you talk shit about the ShKanon theory.
Oh and denied in ep6, like it wasn't before, true closed circle, no one come during the 2 days, enjoy.

And Kyrie was dead.

>>4029050

....because it's really easy to explain, and could have been done by Gohda or Jessica in 2, and almost anyone in 4.

>>4029056
>Oh and denied in ep6, like it wasn't before, true closed circle, no one come during the 2 days, enjoy.

inb4 a fag comes saying "that only applies to EP6".

>>4029055
Cogito, ergo sum, I think therefore I am.
Rest should be obvious.

>>4029062
Let's go with that. Why would they hide his body specifically? They leave most corpses on plain sight on purpose. Why hide Kanon or Shannon and not anyone else?

"Kanon died in this room" = Shannon won as the main personality in that room, Kanon disappears

>>4029056

What, that's a common theory.

And Kyrie wasn't necessarily dead.

>>4029093
That part of the pony theory was always completely and utterly stupid.

Autohypnosis is silly. There are like 3-4 Knox's laws in can fall under. Unknown devices, unforeshadowed, supernatural...take your pick

>>4029089

Where was Shannon during those murders, exactly? If I were a culprit, I'd think that Kanon's missing corpse would put more suspicion on him than on me, right?

>>4029070

'I think differently, but I already thought before, although I don't know about that', more like.

>>4029105

I'm just trying not to use the phrase 'MPD'. Replace hypnosis with whatever you want, as long as it works the same.

>>4029113
>>I think differently, but I already thought before, although I don't know about that
Humans aren't that simple, that's why MPD is considered as a really serious mental illness and is still something that is considerd as very mysterious.

>>4029122

An impossible thing by any other name...

>>4029113
This actually encourages them being the same person.

Making Kanon "disappear", but staying as Shannon, Shannon is as you say less suspicious, and completely safe. Kanon will not appear again, but he is a wild card, like in the zombie Kanon scene. Too bad someone still kills Shannon anyway.

>>4029126

It still doesn't matter to the detective, unless they're going for the 'why dunnit' part. A detective will always consider the body the thing that committed the crime, not the personality.

inb4 an alien parasite is in ShKanon's brain and causes his personality shifts.

>>4029167
Pretty sure they mocked that already in-game. Several times at that. Reminded of the death flags scene.

>>4029153
Not if he doesn't know better, which is the whole point.
Let me rephrase it for one last time.

Erika basically says that there's 18 people including her in red.
Now, every words that she says has to be true.
BUT you can play on words, even if you don't to.
The play there is on the word "people", since Shannon and Kanon recognize themselves as 2 different people, one of the "definition" of people can work to separate them, aka cogito, ergo sum.

That's just one of the definition though, but even then it's still work.
And with that, let the thread die.

>>4029139

Replace it with DID, then.

>>4029143

I mean, where was Shannon when Jessica was being killed? I remember Kumasawa and Gohda being suspected for it...

>>4029187

Beato, who knew the truth, considered them two separate people, though.

Therefore, we should examine the Ep 6 red, not the previous ones.

>>4029209
Under different definitions of "people" you can consider them 1 or 2 persons.
That's basically how Beatrice made most of her unbeatable crime scene, using a play on word.

>>4029296

When has she done anything like thaaaaaat? Beato's very trustworthy, you know.

>>4029209
Well, Beato knew the truth, but her games are a little questionable. I'm not a fan of Shkannon either, except when teasing you, but if you're using that as a proof, consider this:

She also showed Kinzo alive and well, doing whatever it is a Goldsmith does. Drinking and crying Beatoriche mostly. She knew he was dead, too.

That's not really a good argument there, Jyouji.