/jp/ - Otaku Culture

<Good>

Oh, so that's the name of Erika's theme.

Umineko should have a "BGM" indicator like Touhou so I don't have to search through all the tracks to find a particular one.

>>3987992
Or at least something in the menu that indicates the currently playing BGM.
Also, semi-related, but did anyone else find the music in this episode to be a bit lacking in truly stand out pieces?

>>3987997

I really liked Erika's theme and Final Answer.

Maybe nothing as good as World End Dominator, but they were pretty catchy.

>>3987997
>did anyone else find the music in this episode to be a bit lacking in truly stand out pieces?
What? Hell no. All of -45's tracks (Kuina, Patchwork Chimera, Shoujotachi no majogari, Aci-L, Totenblume) were amazing and my favorite tracks in the whole of Umineko. And ZTS's discolor is my favorite non-trancy track in Umineko.

<Good> is now a meme.

In my opinion 蒼色の冷笑 is Natsuhi's son theme

Mostly when Erika goes detective/troll mode sounded 名探偵は知っている

Listening to the songs in the music box, I can't connect any of the songs to any of the scenes except for old songs like Dir and Endless Nine, anyone want to give me a hand with the new songs?

whats the name of the song introduced in ep 5 that has the women chanting?

>>3988047
Shoujotachi no Majogari?

>>3988059
Kuina has chanting as well.

>>3987997

>did anyone else find the music in this episode to be a bit lacking in truly stand out pieces?

God damn no

I loved most if not all of the newer tracks. Deep Blue Jeer,Justice,Toten Blume,Aci-L are quite good.

Also I love Erika's butthurt face. I thought i'd love this bitch thanks to Rifiyu's comics but now I take nothing but pleasure in seeing her in complete agony.

>>3987997
I think they used so many awesome songs in a quick succession that there was no time for people to appreciate the awesomeness of each one.

But I definitely liked the music.

>>3988074

To be honest, I liked her. There's something oddly attractive about a "broken" Mary Sue.

>>3988028
<Good>

The only song in the Ep 5 soundtrack that I don't like is 約束. Mostly because SUDDEN BAD VOCALS PLEASE STOP.

Otherwise, top notch selection. Plenty of fast, trance-y pieces that set the mood excellently.

>>3988088

It's analogous to a tsundere maybe: she's initially arrogant and sure of herself, but slowly she's beaten into normality and deredere...

>22_discolor
>Final Answer
>トーテンブルーメ
>命のパン
>少女たちの魔女狩り

EP5 has definitely the best BGMs for me so far.
Even the vocal in 約束（ボーカル） is good.

<Good>

i like dlanor

>>3987997
>Also, semi-related, but did anyone else find the music in this episode to be a bit lacking in truly stand out pieces?
After re-listening to a few of the songs, I'm going to have to rescind this statement.
Was probably a case of the songs not "imprinting" well.

what is the name of the song that played when Dlanor first appear?

>>3988297
It is probably Justice.
Just sort the BGM folder by date and add all the .ogg files after 7/24/2009.

>>3988297
Justice.

Ep5 thread? This scene was awesome, especially with Dreamenddischarger playing.

Also the ED was really great, even if I already heard it on the Musicbox blue.

Speaking of which, the tracks on the 3rd disc of musicbox blue are great. I hope R07 decides to use some of them in upcoming episodes. This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YQtUIyhmsU

Would make a great theme for Battler and Dlanor fighting or something.

>>3988385
this scene was so good :')

>>3988407
I think I might have liked the earlier scene with Piece Battler in the study a bit more, but only because I have a huge hard-on for Dread of the Grave. Plus the Kinzo/Battler tag team was awesome.

>>3988416
I wouldn't put it past Grandfather.

>>3988416
of course, that was fucking awesome too

probably one of the greatest moments in all of episode 5

>>3988416
That scene was great if only for the fact that it was quite unexpected, as well as Battler putting Erika in her place.
Also Dir, Endless Nine, and Dread of the Grave in a very short interval.

>>3988385
Agreed.
I went wtf when I read this.
It is almost at the level of ep3 Virgilia troll.

>>3988451

I loved that. I knew that it was eventually coming: Ryukishi had obviously built Erika's entire theory on *SOME* false premise, but it wasn't obvious where the false premise was until it hit us like a ton of bricks.

Also, apparently there is *another* false premise that occurred in episode 5 which *nobody pointed out* and will apparently be big in episode 6.

>>3988416
Yeah that was fucking awesome, too bad it was all 34

>>3988431
After all, jumping out into the rainy sky on a mad night is nothing more than a bit of fun to go with a drink for Kinzo.

>>3988464
I speculate it is either Hideyoshi "death" or the knock on the door.
I swear I didn't see Hideyoshi is dead in red while reading it. Can anyone confirmed?

>>3988416
that Kinzo better not have been a delusion of Battler's

>>3988451

Wait, now that I think about it, does this mean the cousins managed to somehow fake huge wolfbite-size holes in their necks?

Or were the necks covered up before Erika got there?

>>3988464
Well, the whole ignoring Kinzo was already dead bit should have raised some flags early on.

>>3988479
No red

>>3988451
Maybe they were just unconscious/dying, and didn't fully experience death until after they had been moved?

For that matter, what do they even consider death? The brain can live for several minutes even without a beating heart.

>>3987985
I ONLY KNEW HOW TO READ の HIRAGANA FAG HERE

>>3988491

That was the red herring that hid the problem, but the problem wasn't actually that Kinzo was dead: it was possible for the theory to work without Kinzo. The real problem hit when that red text came out: that the corpses were not actually moved after the deaths. That pretty much blew apart the entire theory instantly.

>>3988479
It can't be those, since Erika talked about the issue.

It has to be something that Battler, Erika, or Bernkastel never brought up.

>>3988504
you're saying they weren't moved after they died...
so they were moved while they were still somehow alive?

>>3988497
Gohda poison their food with sleeping drugs. Rosa painted their "death".
All of them got killed after the culprits move them to the underground cells with the phone.
Guess who was missing when Erika and gang went to check up on Genji?

>>3988445
>Also Dir, Endless Nine, and Dread of the Grave in a very short interval.
This is what made the scene for me. The ???? was awesome too, but for me the awesomeness of any scene doubles when Dread of the Grave plays.

>>3988506
Something those 3 never brought up?
That's going to be quite hard to discern.
Well, I suppose if Soul Link isn't cracked by tomorrow, I'll run through with pen and paper looking for it.
tomorrow,

So what exactly happened to Krauss?

>>3988560
He died shortly after talking to Natsuhi on the phone.

>>3988560
He was killed immediately after the phone call.

>>3988569
>>3988570
how sad

>>3988560
dead.

Time of death never confirmed. Did Bern state that he was killed shortly after the phone call in red?

>>3988569
yeah, but how and where?

Erika hadn't explained that part, and Hideyoshi as well because she didn't factor in the man from 19 years ago and assumed Natsuhi was the culprit.

for Battler's truth, he did it?

>>3988579
yes i think Bern did

>>3988554
Sup slowpoke.

>>3988590
oh you

I wonder who the real culprit is then for episode 5? Battler made a pretty strong case for himself being the culprit, but that wouldn't really be consistent with the other 4 games.

Also has anyone figured out the Epitaph? I can't Japanese very well, so I can't figure it out even though it seems like r07 basically spelled it out for us.

>>3988581
Erika never prove that Kurass is dead. In fact she is offering Natsuhi a chance during the court to blame shit on him. However Natsuhi refuse to do so thus Erika get auto-win on that one since she doesn't need to prove that Kurass has alibi.

The same goes for Hideyoshi's death. Everyone else other than Kurass and Natsuhi have alibi - they were in the guest room with Erika after all.

Since Natsuhi has no alibi and Kurass nor Kinzo is not a murderer according to Natsuhi. She herself end up being prove as the culprit - until the golden king step in.

>>3988651

The whole episode needs a complete reinvestigation from scratch given >>3988451, so it's hard to tell at this point.

>>3988671
but how can Erika solely base her accusations on what Natsuhi says? Natsuhi could, of course, be wrong, and she doesn't say anything in red.

That piece is a bit too competent she misses some vital points.

>>3988651
The culprit actually can't be Battler.

I have no clue why his theory can continue with >>3988451 red thrown out. The plainly states that the <body> aren't dead yet at the time Batter call everyone to see the corpse. From then on Battler seems to have stick with Erika all morning... so wth.. Even Hideyoshi's death can't be explained with Battler as the culprit. Given that Battler walk into the room with Erika - he can't be the one who kill Hideyoshi.

One possible theory I can think of is everyone who died in the first twilight fake their death. Walk out of the room in the morning. They all conspire to do something then conflict of interest etc then start killing each other.

>>3988728
actually it was possible that Gohda drugged them, so they were unconscious by the time Battler arrived

>>3988717
well shortly after that - Bern throw in Kurass is dead after the call in red.

So that pretty much seals the envelope.

>>3988671
>>3988744

>Kurass

>>3988744
but it wasn't explained how.

Natsuhi killed him, too, since she's the culprit?

>>3988738
Interesting... so Gohda <or other culprit> probably can drug them. Then kill them after he/she hide the body in the morning.

Since they are killed later in the day - all Erika's alibi for the first twilight has no use whatsoever unless she practically stay with them all day.

>>3988728
Interesting idea. I mean, George said he is willing to kill the entire family in Ep4, right?

So, if Erika is wearing Jessica's old clothing...is there fanart of Loli-jessica in Erika's outfit?

>>3988728
>One possible theory I can think of is everyone who died in the first twilight fake their death.

The only possible way that can be truth is if the corpses were actually body doubles. All the characters said that the wounds on their necks were easy to notice.

At the same time, the body doubles theory is weak, because that would assume that they couldn't recognise the corpses's faces, and as a far as I know, their faces received no damage.

>>3988784

Who actually saw the dead bodies? Remember, they quickly covered them up "for dignity's sake", so others didn't see them. Who actually saw the bodies?

>>3988784
The wound is easy to notice however it was never stated anywhere that they are dead. Ketchup etc no?
Labda however gives us red that said the <corpse> can't be misidentified. However you probably can get pass this if they are not <corpse>.

>>3988778
oh shit...
Rosa!

>>3988765
It was stated in red that she is not. Also she is pure and faithful.


Also does anyone else think that the Gold Truth isn't really what everyone here seems to assume it is? Most people seem to accept that it is the "absolute truth", but Dlanor says that it is sometimes weaker and sometimes stronger than the red.

>>3988765
according to Erika's truth - yes.
However according to Battler's truth - no.

>>3988795
Right at the beginning of the scene, all the Ushiromiya's were there. The only people missing were the servants and Erika. Before that, all of them had seen the deep wounds in their throats. After their faces were covered, Erika entered and analysed the scene, asked Nanjo for the results of his autopsy and after that we don't know if she actually checked the bodies.

But most of them did see the wounds.

>>3988812
but Krauss died. How, if Natsuhi didn't do it?

Goddamnit. Best waifu ever.

>>3988812
It was never stronger than red. Just thats what we used to think before the translation is out.

Now we know that Gold is truth that can be made without the basis by the game master. Whether if its stronger than red or not depends.

>>3988822

This means that, by definition, Nanjo must have been in on it, since we know that, in red:

The corpses were moved.
The corpses were not moved after the victims' death.

Therefore, the victims must have somehow been still alive before they were moved.

Erika is awesome.

>>3988803
>The wound is easy to notice however it was never stated anywhere that they are dead. Ketchup etc no?

The problem is that Battler and others did describe the wound. The referred to it as deep and as wide as an open-mouth. So, it wasn't just blood. They could see their open throats.

Sorry, but the whole ketchup, red-paint deal sounds like complete bullshit.

>>3988826
the <fake dead> people during the first twilight did it obviously.

>>3988728
What I think.
Only Rosa conspired. The kids are probably not involved.
Same with the knock. Nobody can knocked the door at 24:00 because "no one" did. All of them lie about it and constructed the fake truth.
I know it sound far fetched but the hint is really pointing to a murder case with ton of accomplices with 1 master mind.
How would the mystery phone caller know Hideyoshi will be in the guest room that Natsuhi hide?
Because Eva told Hideyoshi to faked his death in that room to frame Natsuhi.
Of course the true mastermind will in the end kill all of them after the second twilight.
Nobody would want to share the GOLD because there is no LOVE in the 5th game.

>>3988842
Lambadadelta>>>>>>>>>>>>Rika>>>>>>>>>
Bernkastel>>Erika

My taste~

>>3988843
bs or not, it was never denied in red. In fact Battler's description might even be fantasy in EP5.
DUH DUA DUH.

>>3988840
>This means that, by definition, Nanjo must have been in on it, since we know that, in red:

That'd mean that everyone in the room must have been on it, because everyone in the room must have heard what Nanjo reported to Erika.

Nanjo wasn't the only one who saw their open throats, everyone who was in the room did. If Nanjo said something that was false to Erika, they would have heard it.

>>3988822
Perhaps nearly everyone was in on framing Natsuhi then? Maybe they are tired of her and Krauss's moon tourism.

Erika is brought onto the island intentionally in order to make Battler the head. Erika then proceeds to frame Natsuhi in order to provide a cover for the murder of Krauss. With Battler as the head he will be perfectly willing to give everyone a large share of the gold.

>>3988840
>The corpses were moved.
>The corpses were not moved after the victims' death.

Well corpse implies non living human. I don't think your first one was never stated in red. The <body> were moved might... but certainly not The <corpse> were moved.

>>3988853
I dont like Erika either, Way too haughty but also fucking brown nsing Bern all the time.

okay i'm getting my mind blown over it not being concluded thoroughly.

Kinzo couldn't have killed Krauss or Hideyoshi in either truths, right? because he was dead to begin with.

In Erika's truth - Natsuhi killed Krauss and Hideyoshi and the others
In Battler's truth - someone else did it, possibly Krauss, and/or the <fake dead>?

>>3988878
or Battler himself

>>3988878
Wasn't Krauss confirmed innocent in red as well?

im still going with witches did it. right in the tea party of episode 8 beatrice will come out with her troll face and proclaim in red that the crime was impossible for humans. cant wait

I think people are getting too hung up over the different "truths" revealed in the trial. While some parts revealed in these sequences are no doubt true, it would be wrong to assume everything is correct.
One needs to carefully examine what is true and what is not from these sequences.

>>3988831
Hmm, I wonder what the gold text is then?

Maybe its something that is provable by humans, but those on the game board do not currently have the means to prove? For example, DNA testing could easily identify any corpse as Kinzos, but they obviously don't have the equipment for that on Rokkenjima.

>>3988878
Erika truth was constructed with the premise of Kinzo sleeping with Natsuhi and being her accomplice.
It got blown away once Battler threw his golden truth.
Battler truth was constructed with an alternative culprit which is himself.
In the end Erika changed her truth without Kinzo as an accomplice and since noone can disapprove either story, DRAW GAME.
See ya in EP6.

Enjoy playing as Erika fighting BATTLER!

I believe both story to be bullshit because the murders would have continued.

>>3988918
I think its based in understanding. Battler understands the whole game, the motivations of the culprit etc so while he can't prove it he can still announce its the truth.

>>3988918

It's implied that it can only be used by those who posses the true knowledge of the golden land, or something like that. While there's a plenty to be discussed in the shown events of the episode, I'm rather curious as to what Battler's super realization is and even more curious as to when Ryu07 is going to tell us...

>>3988943
So, it's basically a more fashionable Red Truth.

>>3988943

Seemed reasonable until I realised that was originally the whole point behind the red truth.

Besides, how would that ever be inferior to red, then?

>>3988950
>I'm rather curious as to what Battler's super realization

Do you think we'll ever get that answer just like that? Personally, I think the answers will remain quite vague, and up to interpretation.

>Enjoy playing as Erika fighting BATTLER!

NO!

>>3988971
I'd like that

let's see how Battler is on the fantasy side.

<Who?>
George and Ginji did the killing all of it.

<The How?>
Ginji drug all the children after dinner, Rosa as well. Battler spent time solving puzzle long after Rosa left him so he was never drugged.While everyone was sleeping like a log. Geogedecide to create a fake scene where everyone died. This doesn't involve a lot of sound of course since everyone are sleeping.

The next morning George and Ginji both fake their death until everyone left their room. Ginji left his scene shortly after Natushi ran out and George as well left after everyone left. George is physically strong enough to carry Rosa, Jessica and Maria. He buried them in the wood after killing them there.

George also killed Krass and was the one who call Natsuhi. Ginji also knows this and s the one redirect the line from Natsuhi faking that it was from the external line, but in fact it was from the guest house.

George also kill Hideyoshi and hide the other closet until Natushi left before getting out.

Later Gorge and Ginji both learn of the 'Gold' that Battler found. They now has conflight of interest. They end up killing each other resulting in double death.

<The Why?>
Ginji knew that Kinzo is dead, however he believe that the family still new a new competent heir. he secretly conspire with George for him to be the next successor. George agree, however to do this he must kill the current assume head which is Krass and blame it on Natushi. In order to avoid suspicious, he must also kill Maria and Rosa who are in the same room as Jessica and too fake his death. Later George kill his dad as well thinking he can blame this on Natsuhi so that he can marry his love Sayo.

Later both of them learn that the new family head will be Battler who is awesome and can solve Kinzo's puzzle. Gorge want to get rid of Battler, while Ginji want to suppose him. They both fight using either Kung-fu or shotgun and end up dying.

All Red clear.
All Knox met. Everyone has also been foreshadowed.

Red Truth can be used to deceive right? You can't lie with it, but you can manipulate people with it and lead them to wrong conclusions.

Maybe the Gold Truth is something that cannot be used in such a way. It cannot be used to deceive or lead people astray. It can only state what is true, and can only be used when the intention is not deception.

It's truth with no drawbacks or loopholes.

>>3989003

What about the knock? That really bugs me.

>>3989015
Didn't happened.
It is like Natsuhi talking to Kinzo and Beato.
Everyone there constructed it.

>>3989007
I guess the inability to lie would be a drawback to the gold compared to the red, but I still think it would still be better than the red in every situation...

>>3989003
i lol'd, well done

>>3988963

I think it's likely to come out when looking into Beato's relationship to Battler. It was implied that their relation is the reason for the game existing in the first place and that's pretty much something that can't go unexplained.

If we get it in ep6... that's another story...

I can't even think of what to expect with Battler as the game master this time... The conflict with Erika makes it seem like they will be replaying some of the content of the 5th game, and maybe finishing it as per the epitaph???, but there's nothing to say that Battler can't change things as he wants... I'm actually a bit confused as to what Battlers goals are going to be since Beatrice is dead? ...

I hope they continue with the trend of balancing magic and reality as the example of giving the candy in a flashy or plain manner seemed to be a decent compromise route. I mean, can Battler really keep denying witches? No Battler, you are the witches

>>3989033
And then he was the witch

wtf

>>3989033
Well, as you were saying about the Epitaph, perhaps it will be Meta-Battler's Piece-Battler solving it instead of Bern-piece-Battler and Erika.

>>3989015
can't figure that out actually. Lambda is too awesome..
Unless..... there is no knock to start with.

There is no detective in the room, also not in the massion In which case, anything goes. Erika is in the guest house during shit with Nanjo no?

It was stated in red a lot about 'knock can't be mistaken', 'noone actually deliver the letter directly/indirectly' etc... but I don't think it states in red that the LETTER IS THERE nor THE KNOCK ACTUALLY HAPPENS!

>>3989033
Battler already know the truth so he probably know who is the real killer.

His plan for the next few games.
Make the witch side win and try to revive Beatrice with enough believer.
I really don't see a good end coming. One of his relative is definitely the mastermind and there is definitely more than one accomplice.

If the knock never happened and the letter is never delivered, where does Battler get the ring from?

>>3989033
>I think it's likely to come out when looking into Beato's relationship to Battler. It was implied that their relation is the reason for the game existing in the first place and that's pretty much something that can't go unexplained.

I think their relationship will be explained, but I don't think that'll necessarily give any absolute answers. I'm sure it'll give many hints. Personally, I think it'll be the same with the the epitaph in EP5. We were given several hints. However, we were never shown how Piece Battler and Erika reached the answer.

I'm sure we'll get many hints. Enough so that many people will reach similar answers, but I don't think we'll get anything that will allow people to claim any truth as absolute.

>>3989003

No one knows about Natsuhi's secret except her, Kinzo and her son (are we sure this Battler yet?), so basically George nor Genji could not have conceived the phone plan.

Really though, I laughed, well done...

>>3989065
Could be a fake, could have gotten it some other way.

>>3989065
That never happened, dude.
I mean, you know how things go. If you cannot explain it, it never happened.

>>3989065
Most likely the servant who think that Battler deserves to be the next head gives it to him. Probably while coming in and serving him tea and shit. They probably took the ring from Kinzo's body/study earlier 2 years ago. Now they/he/she give it to Battler saying that it was Kinzo's wish to give this ring to the one who find the gold.

>>3989065
Servants hide the corpse.
Servant go into the room. Here you go have the ring you are the new head.
"Come lets us discuss how we can kill Krauss and everyone that is against us. We can also try to frame Natsuhi for the murders"
"Good idea guys, l will kidnapped Krauss to the underground cell and make a phone call to threaten Natsuhi"
"We will use our detective-san to solve the case and frame her"
"Keikaku doori"

>>3989086
I'm pretty sure Erika mentions him wearing it at one point or another.

>>3989078
oi, Genji knows.

>>3989078
wait, in that conversation where Natsuhi told Shannon the Fall thing, Genji might have overheard.

>>3989103
>>3989110
Genji is a faggot, though.

>>3989078
hoho never stated in red that Krass, Kinzo, the old hag and Natushi are the only one who know about the baby. In fact the old hag if not Kinzo himself has told that to Ginji.

Ginji is the most trusted servant to Kinzo - he will share anything with him. Also the old hag (always forgot her name) probably talk to Ginji too since he is her superior.

Also yes, it was stated in red that natushi only tell Shannon about her favorite season thingy. However it was never stated in red that Shanon never told that to ANYONE. IN FACT!! SHE MOST LIKELY TELL IT TO GEORGE!! They are lovers!! They did share everything.

So yeah, George and Ginji are the culprits. AWESOME

>>3989094
>>3989094
>>3989094

>>3989118
The phone call guy could have just planted 4 cards in different spots in the room.
I don't know why people are playing up this fact.

>>3989030
I wouldn't think too much about how its inferior, we've only seen it used once and it was meant to be superior in this case. Maybe being able to use it is harder and more gimmicky in other times, it wasn't a fact it was "I guarantee". I doubt it can be understood with just seeing one usage of it.

>>3989118
>>3989003
Cool story bro except one thing.

FUCK HOW COME WE ARE DEAD IF WE ARE THE MASTERMIND?
WTF is this shit?

>>3989118
so that man from 19 years ago is dead and George is lying, right? because George can't have been that baby lol

>>3989134
>The phone call guy could have just planted 4 cards in different spots in the room.

>>3989142
Read his post again. The masterminds killed each other when they had an internal conflict.

>>3989142
>FUCK HOW COME WE ARE DEAD IF WE ARE THE MASTERMIND?

The mastermind should be the one who planned the whole thing. He could easily have been betrayed by his accomplices at some point.

>>3989142
that was Erika's truth where Natsuhi was the culprit.

it might have not been the case in Battler's truth where Natsuhi wasn't the culprit.

oh wow, it's a bit confusing.

>>3989134
Well nigger. I figured that he could have just guessed, but I didn't even consider that possibility. Bravo, anon, bravo.

>>3989103

Genji only knows about the phone calls after the have been made... unless I missed something when Natushi was confessing that mentioned Genji was informed of the original incident

>>3989052

What I don't understand is how he could know the "truth" when it's apparent that their have been heavily implied different culprits for different games, (Rosa Ep2, Eva ep3, etc...). Those of course aren't proven, but it seems like they all have to be in on it or their is discontinuity between culprits across games. This is the reason why I was confused where the focus would be in ep6...

We've also got to remember that whoever called Natsuhi had the voice of a young man. Natsuhi even said that person could have been a girl.

George has most likely a fully developed voice, and so does Genji.

Small bombs level theory here. I couldn't help but think that an animal like a trained monkey could exist somewhere on the island and bring the letter and knock on the door then hide in a high place.

>>3989118
i love this guy

>>3989187
Well, Ep1 was Natsuhi, and Ep5 was Natsuhi, so maybe Ep6 will be Rosa?

>>3989094
wouldn't work

none of the servants are in Guesthouse during the first twilight. Also Erika put a seal at the door.

>>3989187
probably something about how Beato makes the games

and there probably is one or two masterminds and a lot of accomplices, where every game went differently and not as planned

>>3989197
Episode 3, Eva's web.

No animals.

>>3989187
I really doubt Eva was behind the murders in EP3. It'd be far too obvious, and EP4 seems to try to hint she wasn't involved with the murders.

Rosa in EP2 is possible, but I doubt it for some reason.

Anyway, there's most likely a pattern, and Battler has most likely found that out.

>>3989197
Wouldn't Knox's rules negate this?

>>3989215
Darn, I loved my monkey theory. He could've lived in the secret mansion- see it wasn't where he raised beatrice it was where he raised a monkey.

>>3989210
Rosa is in it. She went back there to start the plan.

>>3989187
>What I think
He knew the truth but he didn't disclose it because disclosing it would mean accusing half of his relatives as being murderers and stuff.
>What he is trying to do
Using his new found enlightenment he is trying to construct a world where none of them will commit murders with him injecting love into the games with his piece.

>>3989189
faking voices.

Also that has been foreshadow too. Natushi was doing Kinzo's voice for last year conference.

>>3989229
how did that work anyway?
how did they do a "yelling match"?
so Natsuhi is a ventriloquist now?

>>3989134
>>3989158
oh wow nice one. I never thought of that...

>>3989208
>Well, Ep1 was Natsuhi, and Ep5 was Natsuhi, so maybe Ep6 will be Rosa?

Well, Natsuhi was certainly the most important adult in EP1, but I wouldn't say she was the focus, unlike in EP5.

Rosa did receive some focus in EP2, but she also received some focus in EP3 and EP4. In fact, I'd say we know Rosa's background well enough. Mind you, I'd gladly accept another Rosa Musou scene, but I don't think she'll get any major focus.

>>3989236
It didn't work for long. Eva was able to caught her this year.

George though has it a lot easier since he just have to fake not being himself. He can cover his mouth with something - and its pretty much done.

>>3989030
.>>3989139

This game is screwed up.

Remember when Battler was still asking Beato to repeat in Red?

The Red is primarily a tool for the Human side. Why? It provides information. It weeds out possibilities. Sure, it can mindrape you, but remember Kyrie's advice! The closer you are to checkmate, the better you see your opponents moves, the better you see the way out. By narrowing things down like that, a single truth is revealed. When you eliminate the impossible, what remains, however improbable can only be the truth.

Using the Red is dangerous for witches. But it has an advantage. It can be used with the intent to deceive and screw someone over. This is how victory is achieved for the witch's side. Abdication of thought. EP2 where Battler still refuses to accuse his relatives is a perfect example of this. He was attacked both emotionally and intellectually. A two pronged attack. He was forced to resign because he won't change base assumptions.

If you stop thinking, you lose.

>>3989250

Cont'd

And that's how the witch's side uses the double edged red sword. It's risky, but they can win using that method.

Now about the Gold text. Assuming it can't be used to deceive, that just means it's free fucking information for the human side! It can't be used to mindrape, or manipulate! It's Truth. What if someone asks a witch, Repeat in Gold! And she does. That right there is like giving the human side a big fucking gun and painting a bullseye on your chest.

That's why witch's don't use it much and consider it inferior.

Considering everything, the game is screwed up and tilted harshly to the Human side. Even if the witch refuses to use Red, the Blue Truth forces them to do so (which is, you know, it's original purpose.). Then the human side gets some precious precious red information to formulate something new. The only danger is that the witch is screwing with him, but that can be dealt with. What if the Human side gains a new weapon? Forcing the witch's side to use Gold? Game over man.

Beato designed a really nice system to lead Battler to the truth. Too bad Battler was incompetent. And the gameboard is now taken over, and I have no idea what will happen. This neat little system is probably blown to hell and back now.

One thing I can't figure out yet is why Beato refused to repeat in Red anymore. I think it was just to get Battler to think more and use the Blue to get it out of her

>>3989219
I don't think so because
-Kinzo was mad
-There was a place to keep a pet like that mentioned
-If he had a baby, he could get an animal if he wanted

>>3989250
What has that got to do with the Gold Truth?

wait a minute.

Beato is helping Battler see the truth, that one of his relatives is the culprit?

Any guesstimates on how long Witch-Hunt will need for Episode 6?

>>3989285
We still don't know what exactly she wants him to realise. But yes, that's one possibility.

>>3989285
We still don't know what exactly she wanted him to realise. But yes, that's one possibility.

>>3989290
3-4 months, most likely.

>>3989285
He already realized that since EP3... doesn't seems like she is satisfied or did Battler WIN yet.

There has been a lot of foreshadow about the 'promise'. I think Beatrice want Battler to remember something about the promise (she call hima liar etc).
Note that she has nothing to gain from him remembering.

I think Battler's mindblowing revelation had something to do with why the witch thing is important. It's probably for the greater good that they keep that lie up: that way they can wrap up their shady shit without killing each other, if they all agree to it. Maybe gold text has something to do with this? The final solution, or maybe battler's magic solution, probably won't have anyone dying...

>>3989312
People already pointed out that Battler made a promise about that white horse thingy to Shanon earlier, but I don't think thats the one. Too anti-climatic here..

The thing is the promise need not be foreshadowed since it was not part of the game board and doesn't have to follow Knox rule. It can even be introduced next episode for all we know.

>>3989320
that would heavily rely on someone solving the epitaph and talking to everyone properly and sharing the gold fairly (which Battler didn't do), preventing any murders.

>>3989290

July, you rushfaggot. They're taking a break and EP5 patch alone was rushed at the end.

>>3989290

6 months.

>>3989285

That's what I believe when I wrote that up, yes.

And If you believe the narrator in EP3 where he fucking SPELLS IT OUT for us..

Everyone was distracted by troll end to notice though..

>>3989324

The promise was to grope Maria's breasts when she was older

All he ever did was ask her to make a sandwich out of them...

Would Battler secret fall under the KNOX rule?
It wasn't foreshadowed till EP4.
Apparently it is a secret so big that he would be killed if he leaked it out.

it'd be all right if they released it in July

they did a pretty <good> job. i'd say they deserve the break

>>3989352
but they were fucking slow like always

also, Beato was pretty annoying this episode because she doesn't say anything. at least make something clear!

>>3989347
so Maria = Beatrice? D:

>>3989358
If you think WH is slow Umineko must be your first VN. At least the release wasn't delayed for months because of an "installer" or anything.

>>3989359
Well, I doubt Beatrice could speak that easily.

>>3989373
How long has HA's patch been in development? 2 years?

>>3988781
Pity they are now being worn by a complete bitch.

>>3989395
Erika >>>>>>>>>>>> Jessica

>>3989415
naturally

>>3989415
Im still wondering which of the two girls are the hottest?

Ange or Jessica?

Erika is just a dfc cute girl.

>>3989457
unless Jessica has a hotter version of this...

This episode is really pushing the idea that Rosa and Genji might to be working together.

>>3989477
You mean George and Ginji!

I doubt Rosa is physically strong enough to carry George, Jessica 's body out of the room and kill them and at the time Ginji has not available to do that for her.
More over there is no reason foreshadowed by Knox rule to let them conspire with one another. George is still more likely in my POV. He is the only person who has a reason to kill his parents and physically strong enough to carry out the murder and kill Ginji later on.

>>3989542
this means in the future episodes George may be the big bad

>>3989542
Yeah, George being Natsuhi's "son" and Genji killing Krauss then faking his death at his room. George probably thought that when Battler solved the riddle, he'd help everyone with money, then his aunt would force him to marry a rich girl or something.

>>3989573

Was it ever stated how old the baby Natsuhi received was? I think George is too old to be him.

>>3989542
>>3989573
>>3989561
you are now rewatching the first OP and seeing George's grim.

>>3989589
The baby is dead. I meant, he collected a lot of informations about Natsuhi, even using Shanon for that. It wouldn't be hard for him to discover her past and act as her dead baby.

I'm not afraid to admit I lost the plot after Battler revealed the murders took place after 3:00am. I followed it up to the that point but I just can't remember everything after 3:00am well enough to come up with a theory. Erika's logic was blown away and it puts us back at square one but at that point I was unable to remember the earlier events. Fuck "difficulty is easy" on the title screen. I've never reread any of the episodes but this one I think I'm going to have to.

>>3989609
hey this was easier than the other episodes because Erika was there.

I'll admit, my brain was full of fuck reading EP1 2 3 and 4 with everyone not being consistent with where they were and how the who killed who

here, it was all kept fairly solvable by Erika, who kept it within the boundaries of Knox rules and not coming at it with lolsmall bombs

ah, my head.

Going back a bit.

From EP 1-4, which ones are fully solved already? As in, "humans can do it this way"

>>3989648

Since we don't know all we need to know to solve the case, it's currently unsolvable. Simply because everything lacks proof.

>>3989589
...what about Kanon?

>>3989670
I'd say you're wrong.

>>3989681
Too young, unless Kanon is faking his age.

Kanon was talking to the parents while the culprit phoned Natsuhi at 24:00h(?) Can't be him.

>>3989746
Everyone made themselves believe that (alongside with the knocking), Shannon and Kanon were with them

>>3989763
Erika was there. You can't deceive the detective.

Phonecall was made by Rosa.

>>3989769
Wasn't Erika at the guesthouse back then?

>>3989648
R07 said that its possible to solve all of them already. EP5 Battler also solve all of them already no? All he did was have 'love' and reread the whole thing.

May be we should.

>>3989782
She gone to the guesthouse at 1:00am then stayed with Nanjo and Gohda up to 3:00am, when they all gone to sleep.

>>3989806
wait, when was the letter delivered?

>>3989794

Rereading the EP4 tea party and I'm catching all sort of new things.

Remember the blue stake that pierced Beato in the flank? Its the only one that came at a weird, and was explicitly pointed out to cause Beato great pain.

That stake came from the Kanon name inheritance theory from EP2. Shot down by Lamdadelta I know, but I think this means Kanon and that scene is somehow fucking important.

Looking back the dumbest thing I did this game was believe in Battler. I just assumed "hes the main character so hes surely innocent" even though he wasn't the detective this time. We know he didn't necessarily see the truth this time but I assumed jumping when he actually slid down the pipe and seeing Kinzo were the extent of his illusions, that they were just there to write in some cool scenes for him. I was wrong and it fucked me entirely. I try not to be one of those faggots that treat it as a real "game" that you win or lose but I was definitely "defeated" this time. I gambled on Battler and got faulty info and failed to get enough real facts for a good theory.

>>3989820
Does this letter really exist?

>>3989828
wait what?what is that blue text?i cannot bother to reread EP4 tea party.can you like tell me what is it?

At the start.
Ronove said that the current game is lacking love.
Ep5 is fucking nasty.
What all this implied is that majority of the characters in there are the murderers, accomplices and culprits.

Proof
1) The fucking knock at 24:00 that can't be solved. -this mean that everyone in the room at that time came out with the lie that they heard the knock
-the Battler that is in the 5th game is in it as well
-meta Battler joined the game late so he didn't know that he himself is the accomplice until toward the end

2)Nobody enter the cousins room besides Rosa and Battler
-One of them must be in it.
-Gohda drugged the food/tea when they are playing cards
-Probably a few people were left behind at the guesthouse to move the body when Detective-san and a few of them went to check up on Genji

3)The disappearance of Krauss
-Joined the family discussion at the mansion room
-Since all of them are in it, they kidnapped him and threaten Natsuhi to make her be the culprit

4) Hideyoshi
-knew Natsuhi is in the closet
-faked his death to pinned all the murders to her

4) Planned by who/when
-the meeting between the 3siblings when they were investigating about Kinzo death rumour

5) What was used to bribe the servants
-money (bank account in ep4)
-Shannon (Eva promised that she would let George be with her)
-Kanon (probably coaxed by Shannon)

6) What went wrong
-one of the sibling always end up being too greedy and try to kill everyone

One flaw, this doesn't work for Ep1 unless 1 of them faked their death. Couldn't be fucked to reread ep1.
Delusion rant end.

>>3989843

Gonna try and make a screenshot.

But I'm fucking slow. Someone might be faster though.

I just got to the part where eva kicks natsuhi's ass.
Don't worry natsuhi, I still love you ;_;

>>3989883
Also, stfu erika.

I liked how Erika's power, being the detective was like a divine force, restricting everyone from stopping her from examining whatever she wants

>>3989899
This game was totally fucked over, bro.

>>3989828

Also. How did Kanon die in the first game?

Not suicide. Not accident. Beato refused to state it was a homicide.

Holy shit. Did he fake his death?

I was actually listening to this.

>>3989878
>One flaw, this doesn't work for Ep1 unless 1 of them faked their death. Couldn't be fucked to reread ep1.

Shannon. The only people who see her body in the shed are Hideyoshi and Eva. I've suspected she had something to do with it since Episode 3.

>>3989904
Kanon's corpse tend to disappear a lot

>>3989904
I thought she stated in red it was not a homocide, suicide, or accident.

Therefore, the answer is obvious. It was none, and he didn't die. At least, not at that time. The only people who "confirmed" his death was Jessica, and the highly suspicious Nanjo.

for the knock isn't is simple if we assume the culprit move the watch time so it makes all the people in the mansion though it is 24:00 when it is actually not? nobody look at the watch but just simply but that it is 24:00 when the bell rang

isn't the red truth makes it simply it is impossible for anybody to knock at the real 24:00? But if we assume the knock happen not at 24:00 everything will makes sense. Or did I forgot some of the red text about the knock?

>>3989878
One more thing I forgot to add.
From my understanding after reading Ep5, the red the text "X is dead" can be used to show that they died when the game end.
It doesn't mean that they died when we are subjected to "LOL MAGIC FIGHTAN".

>>3989878
Damn, you made me screencap this.
If this ending up being the truth, i hate R07.

>>3989878
Damn, you made me screencap this.
If this ending up being the truth, i hate R07.

>>3989899
like a real mystery novel detective. It's surely what you'd feel if an unknown person sarted doing all these hings

>>3989956
what foreshadowing?the siblings team up to accuse Natsuhi of murder?

>>3989949
but is proved latter by Natsuhi's clock, she's in the hallway at 24:00, reeturn to her room, watches her clock and it's 00:07

>>3989964
Yeah. At least in Higurashi only Shion and Takano were behind the really evil things.

Pony theory confirmed in episode 5.

>>3989983
And Shion's shit was unrelated to the bigger conspiracy and kinda obvious 'Gee, I'll murder everyone and pretend I am the twin'

>>3989956
>>3989983
There is a reason why Battler is still playing game even when he know the whole truth.
He is doing another Rika. Resetting the game over and over again until nobody die.

>>3989973

hum... maybe the culprit change all the clock in the mansion? or just the main clock in the mansion and the watch in Natsumi room? but what is the benefit of it I wonder...

now I'm confused...

I'm at the very end of the main part of ep5 and I already have a huge objection to Erika's strategy.

I haven't finished it yet so if it's explained in the tea party or ???? just say so, but:

It HAS to be possible that someone noticed her paper "door seals" and reset them. Someone could have seen her doing it, or noticed it fall out when they opened the door. They could just put it back in place.

I remember R07 said there was a nasty trap for the reader in EP5 and this seems like an extremely nasty trap, to take something like that for granted.

Please stand on one foot.

>>3990000
no, it's disproven in the later parts of ep5 normal

>>3990000
Can't do.
Only Eva and Erika know about the signature.
Of course Eva is in it too and it would be easy for her to fake the door seals dohohohohoho.

>>3989987
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You missed /a/, by the way.

>>3990011
>ep5 normal

try lunatic mode, easyfag

>>3990012
And Eva taped Genji's room.

>>3990036
not funny, there are no touho funny jokes, accept it

We'd be fucked if the firt four games followed under knox's rules.

Episode 6 - Battler works behind the George's theory, we found that George, Jessica, Kanon and Shanon are innocent.

Episode 7 - The truth (?)

R07 will never reveal the answers. He's just going to keep making the action more GAR.

>>3990056
if you are against fantasy, sure that can be used.

>>3990061
Episode 7 - He wakes up from his coma.

>>3990081
>Awakening of the golden sorcerer

>>3990056
if you had readn it earlier, you'rd have noticed how nmost theories already follow them, mine for example, follows Knox for every case

>>3990061
EP6-8 are likely to be "solutions" to EP2-4. Though after EP5 I don't think you can't really call them "solutions" like they were in Higurashi, it's more like a "new perspective".

>>3990081
Episode 8- Battler, unable to cope with the fact that none of what he witnessed was actually real, takes his life into his own hands.
The next eight hours are a recording of Ryukishi himself laughing at you, the reader, non-stop.

Battler respects Beatrice as a rival, not as a lover.

who are these pokemon?

>>3990123
cannot see shit

So doe R07 have everything planned from the start or just make things up as he goes along?

>>3990115
sorry, umineko is full of shipperfags, also YAKUSOKU
Beato loves Battler, Battler is just tioo dense, as Virgilia sauid: they're like two school kids fighting, but you know what comes after that

>>3990106
Umineko - Watanagashi-hen v2

>>3990115
Shipperfag pretending to be anti-shipperfag trolling shipperfags.

As ambivalent as I am towards Beatrice, there's obviously love between the two.

Luckily, there is episode 6, likely 7, and possibly 8 to wedge in another woman than the walking corpse. And as long as Ryukishi doesn't bitch out on his claim the ending may be bittersweet, she's probably going to disappear even if she comes back, so hopefully we don't get a fucking stupid Gurren-Lagann hobo end.

>>3990133
I think he mostly has it planned out. He probably shifts details around from episode to episode depending on what the popular theories are at the time.
If you re-read Eps 1-4 they are full of little allusions to the other episodes.

>>3990138
Uhh... In English please?

>>3990145
The true Beatrice is dead, bro.

>>3990061
It's probably a little bit of both.

He probably has a general outline for the story, but he determines certain segments by how the fans react to things and theorize about the plot.

>>3990148
And episode 5 answers that whole Kanon-Shannon deal right from the start by locking them both up in the same room with Battler and Erika.

>>3990123
The little animation is the exact same when Ange is being chewed to bits in the OP, and whatever that thing is that is forming.

Could just be that Ryu is cheap as hell and reused animation, though.

>>3990148
ep4 was made up just to confirm the theoriesw that came after ep3 about Kinzo is dead

>>3990133
Both.

He probably has a general outline for the story, but changes certain parts depending on how the fans react and/or come up with theories.

>>3990159
If you said that in /a/, they would throw a bitchfit.

They pretty much all believe Beatrice exists as a human.

Ep 6 should have a little more love. Ryu07's best friend died, so likely to be a shift/cameo for that in the setup. We will find out in 2-3 days, as the JP-capable vn readers will no doubt release the flood gate.

>>3990173
Maybe Erika is summoning Ange back to use her.

>>3989843
>>3989828


This took fucking longer than I expected. Blame my lack of paint skills.

Something I noticed in EP4 tea party. The Kanon identity theory hurt Beato more than usual, and the text explicitly points it out.

I wonder why? Kanon must be fucking important.

>>3990181
ofc, but at least in my case, I'll use spoiler tags, I can't comment on other people misbehaviour

>>3990189
Would be pretty fucking awesome.

System0 first played in Episode 1 during Natsuhi's scene
>Believing oneself to be perfect is often the sign of a delusional mind

>>3990189
that'd be nice. Ange didn't appear in EP5.

Well, it's confirmed by screenshots that Ange will be in episode 6.

>>3990228
but she will have amnesia something like that lol

from Battler last sentence before the game ends and the teab parties are opened, we can suppose he got to restore Natsuhi'd innocence, right?, the game was suspended not finished
he went all:'It's useless, it's all useless', maybe that was after his argument with Dlanor in the ??? party. I mean, we have a BIG gap between Erika's deduction and 24:00, maybe all happened there and Natsuhi was declared innoccent

>>3990231
And George will walk in on Shannon and Battler getting hot and heavy, Kanon will meet his evil twin, one of them drives their bitchin car off of a cliff, etc.

>>3990123
The hair at the left side makes me think it's a new magic being yet to appear.

>>3990231
>No capitalization of the first letter of each sentence
>lol
Please leave /jp/.

>>3990254
Oh fuck no, we have way too many fantasy characters as it is.

Typical kanon being an emo in episode 5.

>>3989670
Part of an interview with Ryukishi07 after EP5's release

>Ryuukishi: After writing four chapters, the world's layout has become very firm, so the actual writing went very smoothly. Instead, the hard part this time around was "arranging the hints". We want Umineko to be a product people can enjoy as they think, and we paid a lot of attention to the balance between making it fun to read and including the right number of hints. Our goal is to write a story which gives hints to people who don't know the truth and reaffirms the views of people who do understand. We could have written it so that the truth was plainly clear and everyone could understand it, but we believe that might have effected how interesting a read it would have become. The other difficult thing was positioning a message to the readers that "it is solvable at this point". In classic mysteries, the "sign" is always the time that the detective says "I know who the culprit is". However, I think we failed to add such a sign in Episode 4. You really should be able to solve it as a mystery with the information given up to and including Episode 4, but because we didn't give a "sign", people thought "there aren't enough hints yet", and few people seriously tried to solve the series. When we saw this, we thought "yes, a clear sign really is needed", and a "sign" appeared in Episode 5 as: "And then.........I......knew."

>>3990406
Shit, time to reread EP 4 and 1, I expect EP 5 to give me a new perspective on those the best.

>>3989998
> hum... maybe the culprit change all the clock in the mansion?
We have to pay attention to the fact that "knocking-time problem" only exists at the meta-world.
The knocker doesn't have any reasons to have to make other people confuse about red text.
To the people on the game board, that knock sounded at 0:00, that's all. They never discussed about red text at all, of course.

>>3990123
Isn't that person Erika? The over-dramatic hair ribbons, and all.