/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>3907039
The newest book is for sluts?

Edition wars, in MY /jp/?

Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae, Next touhou

I'm not sure I get it.

All I see is shit, shit, shit, and more shit.

>>3907050
No, it's the best

I dont see any angsty White Wolf Twilight books in there. Whats up with that? Too busy being a goth?

Yeah, 4E is the best, I agree.

>>3907095
I think it says 4th edition is shit.

You left the best one out.

The majority of people think 4th ed is shit so this picture doesn't appeal to the majority of people...not to mention the pic really only makes borderline sense..

Lots of people like 4e (/Sanae)
It's just a loud, obnoxious few that hate it (/her)

>>3908056

Its not shit, just not D&D. Hence why Sanae is under 4e while Reimu is under the rest.

There's nothing really wrong with 4e, it's just over designed. Like they forgot that they're a tabletop game along the way. 3.5 wasn't that much better, but at least in >12 games it still resembled a tabletop game.

There's nothing really wrong with Sanae, she's just over designed. Like ZUN forgot that she's a miko along the way. Reimu wasn't that much better, but at least in >6 games she still resembled a miko.

>>3907039

>>3908096
what you said don't fit what you mean.

its more like they gave you a build instead of letting you create one from scratch.

With Sanae its more like zun set a preset path for her entire future instead of letting the story build up to a point without insanely elaborate background/weird connections or bizarre plot conceptions/conflicts like with Reimu.

I don't understand all the hate towards 4E. I mean, I can see where they're coming from, but I think the ability system really improves the gameplay for some classes. Before, playing a paladin in combat was hardly interactive. You basically either swung your sword or turned evil, that's it. 4E gives you a wide array of abilities to choose from, and it does the same for every other class. Outside of combat not much has changed, it's up to the DM's imagination and that of the players, as it has always been.

But that's just my 5c.

>>3908130
Fascinating.

>>3908130
Id rather be rolling grapples than play a fucking MMORPG on paper. Its shit, fair and square.

Marisa is obviously EXALTED

>>3908143
It's not even an MMORPG. More like Diablo, you have a couple of skills you spam over and over again, aquire loot, solve quest by killing a shitload of monsters, go sell loot and recieve new quests.

Over and over again. Except a hundred times slower because you have to roll and calculate all the shit the computer would do for you.

>>3908130
I haven't read much about 4th ed. It did seem like it made physical classes more interesting, but at what cost?

Classes are stuck with their given abilities, which may or may not match your character's style AT ALL. Even worse, they introduced the tank/healer+support/DPS format to D&D.

They could just have created a bunch of maneuvers to make physical classes interesting (combat and noncombat, like jumping high/far using a staff or swinging from places with a whip) and added the option of blocking or intercepting blows aimed at other characters.

I kept buying 3.5 books for years even though I didn't play D&D, just because they were interesting. 4th ed. didn't appeal to me at all, especially considering it came so soon after 3.5.

Looks like they got greedy and stupid.

>>3908130 implying a good D&D game is just dice rolling

>>3908157 more like Diablo

You mean Diablo 2? The only difference in the classes in Diablo 1 was stats, not skills.

>>3908170
I don't see what you're getting at, classes are always stuck with their abilities. Casters always have a set pool of spells to choose from. It's the same for all the classes now, you have a predefined set of abilities but you may only learn some of them. Naturally, nothing is stopping a competent DM from whipping up some skills of his own. Official books containing new abilities are also released often (too often).

Don't get me wrong, I don't appreciate what WotC is doing in the slightest. Like you said, they got too greedy. Still, I don't think 4E is a complete failure and is worth a shot at the very least. It made playing a paladin much more interesting for me.

My biggest issue with the edition is something that's seemingly completely irrelevant, the removal of half the goddamn alignment chart.

>>3908170
do you even know how much of an over haul it would have been to change it up like that, they may as well created a new system as they did.
>>3908130
See I like the 4th ed also, they do give you a few play styles to run with, but its just less forgiving than the previous system, which you would have been stuck with an ability or spell you never use. but now theres a chance you could be stuck with whole set you don't use at all.

I hate when people say that about paladin's of 3.5 they had lots of use, people just didn't try to think about it at all, they think paladins some elaborate case where "if it ain't holy it ain't home" bullshit, they aren't just for running the demonic/unholy continuum repeatedly. Most people haven't even taken a look in the in-dept paladin rule book before they go, hurr durr you can't run away cause its evil so you have to die for nothing hurr you can't kill him cause your not sure if its evil hurr durr you lose.

>>3908195 My biggest issue with the edition is something that's seemingly completely irrelevant, the removal of half the goddamn alignment chart.

Just houserule it back.

>>3908170
>They could just have created a bunch of maneuvers to make physical classes interesting...
You do know these exist right?
Don't tell me you been playing this long without them?

>>3908216

Paladins also have the Grayguard PrC and "variants" (only one of which can be considered a real paladin, the others just being Shadow/Death Knights)

>>3908228
Enjoy your non-canon shit.

>>3908180
Maybe you should learn to read. I'm discussing the combat system since that's the biggest change in 4E and also the change most people seem to frown upon.
>>3908216
I'm not complaining about a paladin's capability in combat (I'm talking purely combat-wise here, mind you). Say you have a target and you want to attack it. That's it, you are severely limited in your physical attack options, and spells (both offensive and defensive) are few and far between.
>>3908223
I usually talk the DM into that, but that doesn't make ma any less angry over the fact that they tried to fix something that didn't need fixing. And failed miserably.

4th -> easy modo

>>3908251
>implying you have never seen the section of maneuvers such as Defensive stance, cover other, sunder, delayed actions...ect

>>3908143

A few brief words are necessary to insure that the reader has actually obtained a game form which he or she desires. Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly on adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author’s opinion an absurd effort at best considering the topic!). It does little to attempt to simulate anything either. ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity. This is not to say that where it does not inter-fere with the flow of the gome that the highest degree of realism hasn‘t been attempted, but neither is a serious approach to play discouraged.

Want to know where I copy and pasted that from? The AD&D DMG, written by Gygax himself.

Complaining that 4E is like a game makes Gary Gygax roll in his grave. D&D was always like a videogame, get over it.

>>3908282
>implying
Back to /v/ you shitposter, it's users like you that give /jp/ a bad name.

>>3908259

Just because you don't consider using your surroundings to your advantage in ways that won't violate the Paladin's Code of Conduct doesn't mean Paladin's can't do much in combat. If all you want to do is fight, roll a Knight.

>>3908287

So you think that Gygax saying that D&D isn't supposed to be realistic means he wanted it played as an MMO? I think the point he was trying to make with that was more about MAGIC and monsters that don't actually exist.

>>3908287

Except that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. When he says that 4e plays like an mmorpg, he's referring to the complete loss of abstraction due to POWERS EVERYWHERE FOR EVERY CLASS.

If anything, you just supported his argument.

>>3908259
>Say you have a target and you want to attack it. That's it
What? you've never use other tactics that branch from attacking? of course its going to take a few feats to change up your battle style such as tripping, charging, grabbing and crushing ect.

I had a friend that was a lance paladin, that wrestled most of the time if lancing didn't finish them off/ and sometimes just for fun.

Even the city books I looked at a month ago opened a whole new world of gameplay for me, I currently have a berserker that uses a dexterous rage that makes him hurl after hes done, but thats beside the point.

>>3908295
I'm sorry about that, its just I'm really surprised that people that have played for so long miss this.

>>3908333
>>3908341
You guys keep calling 4E an MMO. What the fuck does that even mean? IF you're trying to say D&D is like a videogame, then yes it is, because MMOs are based almost completely on D&D. D&D was from the beginning a game, and it encourages design based on--wait for it--what makes a fun game above anything like realism.

If you think giving powers to non-magic classes is unbalanced and makes those classes less fun, you would have a legitimate argument.

>>3908361
in fact let me grab my books (my cousins books really) and refer a few pages for ya.

>>3908405
No. What im saying though, is the fact that it removes the actual role(roll)playing from the game and adds a buttonsmashfest to a layer of papers and numbers. Have fun playing your WoW with pen and paper and pimply nerds.

>>3908412
stating at page 115 (combat) to page 140
info that can spice up combat

page 128 (miscellaneous actions)
has quite a few things people never think about

on page 135 theres info on Aid another (in combat) and more info on sundering (attacking items, other weapons and stuff) which can really mess an opponent up.
Theres more in other books but thats just a small bit, specially if you throw your own combos into the mix.

>>3908506
>>3908506
oops i meant to say in the players hand guide 3.5 core book 1

also this next in the Dungeon master guide great combat variation examples on [page 25] lower left.[page 27 and 28] have even more info to spice up combat just take a look.

>>3908449
>the fact that it removes the actual role(roll)playing from the game and adds a buttonsmashfest to a layer of papers and numbers.

This made no sense, and has no argument or evidence. Are you saying that adding more rules to social interactions made the game less about roleplaying in a game that was ultimately an abstract exercise overwhelmingly focused on having fun fighting monsters?

If you're going to go incoherent with anger rather than take a solid look at the new system, I have a hard time taking your opinion seriously.

oh man,
i want to play the zombie version of D&D

>>3908593
>>3908506
This info should be more than enough to change up your Idea of attack/get attacked/attack/get attacked mentality.


Even for a paladin most of this won't even come close to breaking his code of righteous conduct if you know how to use it.
The use of some feats and natural abilities will add a rotational cortex of fisticuff combos that will lather your battle experience with awe and appreciation.

also look for even more rules of combat/ combat variants and add ons in the cityscape book (its pretty awesome) if your DM approves (look anyway for fun)

>>3907038
stop spamming ur shitty clone boards on ａ ｎ o ｎ t ａ ｌ ｋ . com

Hm... thinking this comparison through, it looks good on paper but it doesn't work too well, best I can get from this is that Sanae isn't a real heroine who will be in every game from now on and by extension 4th edition isn't a real Dungeons and Dragons game that...

OH WAIT.

>>3908845
really now...

In 4e, using only the PHB, the PHB2, and Primal Power, you can play a longtooth shifter (wolfgirl) warden who uses a bastard sword, a heavy shield, light armor to fight with nature's spin on martial combat skills.

Show me a way to play Momiji _effectively_ in the previous editions and I'll show you a way that doesn't exist.

>>3909410
...Okay, you convienced me to switch to 4th Edition. Is there a way to play Hina too?

>>3909033
4e has increased moe?

Hey /tg/, how do you do?

>>3909428
One of the five warlock builds we have now is the Dark Pact warlock. That one is all about spreading and reaping curses across your enemies (more so than other warlocks), and its Darkspiral Aura is one of the better uses of Warlock's Curse out there.

Did you know that there is a class for playing EX-Rumia too, the assassin? The assassin uses the Shadow power source and wields a huge sword into battle, because that's very stealthy, manipulating shadows and spreading the fear of the dark.

4e is Touhou edition. You know what the at-will/encounter/daily power system can translate into? Spell cards.

>>3909542
>Darkspiral
>Dark Side of Fate
>SPIIIIIIN

Mein gott.

>>3909487
Best alignment chart ever.

>>3909487
I like how large that image is while at the same time using low resolutions in it.

Everyone's missing the real problem. It doesn't feel like D&D any more.

>>3910655
And it shouldn't, D&D is fucking gay and for zit covered neckbeards the size of whales. This thread is fucking gay.