/jp/ - Otaku Culture

we know her dirty tricks so it'd be more on shit level

More like she doesn't exist so nothing would change

>>3895265
>implying the culprit is human

she would be worse than /b/tard of /jp/

>>3895265
Beatrice exists. You just have to believe in her, anon-kun~! I swear your wishes will come true if you truly believe.

4chan trolling is different than story trolling, she would try to troll and then get angry every time something went against her, like ARC.

>>3895281
Then you have already lost.

>>3895281
>implying you've read episode 5 or have analyzed episode 1-4 thoroughly enough to say such a thing

I think not

>>3895286
Hope is the first road to disappointment Anonymous

>>3895286
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, Anonymous.

itt:lies are trolls

>>3895281
>>3895293
>>3895297

The culprit isn't human. But it isn't witches, either.

It was wolves.

>>3895318

Wrong, it was giant metal porcupines.

negligible mass of explosive contrivance

>>3895326
Wrong, it was 2chan

>>3895281
Evatrice said "Nanjo was killed by a human".
Did'nt care much about that she just denied herself in red.

>>3895365
Don't believe that was the exact wording. If I recall, it was something more along the lines of , "Nanjo saw the face of his killer/was face to face with his killer" followed by the whole " X is dead. Y is dead. Z is dead. Jessica, Battler, and Eva did not kill Nanjo."

>>3895365
>"Nanjo was killed by a human"
>Implying the other 15 were killed by a witch

>Implying Jessica died

>>3895339
How is it negligible if it can kill a person?

>>3895388
Because small bombs never happened.

>>3895392
I see what you did there now.

>>3895378
She said much more than even that.

>>3895318

>>3895425
>>3895453

Wait, doesn't that mean witches don't exist?

>>3895460
Hence why Battler is incompetent.

>>3895460
Both say this game board/this game.

So even though there is no such thing as witches, it's only confirmed for Ep3, at least in terms of being involved in the murders.

>Umineko_theory_hijack.jpg

Seriously, this thread is (stereotypically) going to shit. We have these threads six times a day.

>>3895475

It's a difficult murder mystery with long gaps between releases.

This is pretty much the point of the story.

>>3895475

It's a murder mystery with long gaps between releases and a lot of things to analyze.

Coming up with theories is pretty much the point of the story.

>>3895492
The real culprit is Maria's father.

Theory time is now over.

Ryukishi agreed don't bother him.

The culprit can still be Eva, who's to say that after she shot Battler, that she didn't go up and shoot Nanjo and Jessica?

>>3895475
Would you rather go the route of /a/ and talk about how sugoi kawaii BatxBeato is? x3

And no, less threads won't happen, even if you bitch about it.

>>3895504
Nanjo is already dead. Eva did not kill Nanjo. period.
On the other hand:
I was with her the whole time. Made sure she won't kill anyone, because she could've very well been the culprit. Yet someone still died while she wasn't there.
So she is the culprit.
Falwless logic.

>>3895504
Or how about Nanjo thought he saw someone but really killed himself?

>>3895504
When Nanjo confronted this person, he didn't say their name like Eva's siblings did. When Rudolf and Rosa met with Eva-Beatrice, they recognized her as none other than their sister.

Battler forgot to confirm something that Ronove wasn't allowed to say on Beatrice's behalf. And that was the time of death for everyone in mansion hallway.

>>3895524
>Nanjo was killed by another person
>another person meaning not himself

>>3895540
>>3895521
Yes.
In the final scene there was simething major missing that made Piece-Battler think Eva is the culprit.
Either George's corpse or Hideyoshi's corpse. Neither were confirmed dead soon enough. Hell, Evatrice even trolls us by saying in Tips Hideyoshi was still alive.

>>3895540
If I remember correctly, doesn't Maria also recognize 'Eva' as Beatrice? Does that mean Eva's been the one pretending to be Beatrice and was the one who gave Maria the letter?

>>3895541
Exactly, Nanjo was out of it due to an overdose of prescription drugs (for whatever reason) & he was killed by his hallucination (he killed himself).

>>3895553
Maria recognized her aunt initially, he hesitates for a bit at first and says something like, "Aunt Eva..?".
After Eva performs 'magic', she then became ecstatic thinking it was indeed Beatrice. After she saw her mom being tortured, she realized something was wrong.

Beatrice is Taiga.
You know it's true.

>>3895565
Why don't you like one of the Battler's blue, that Lamda did not shoot down in the end of E4? Small bombs are one thing, but what's left seems to be true.
Someone was still alive, killed Nanjo and died. Without that, Battler has no reason to claim Eva is the culprit.

>>3895574
>>3895553
I mean, this is /jp/, right? You should think here a bit. And not believe anything that isn't red, gold or detective's perception.

The TIPS suggests that Rosa death was an accident rather than a murder & considering Maria being the only person to be strangled they probaly wanted her to be quiet and quickly.

Beatrice is moot level

>>3895597
You mean the horrid grammar?

Back in Episode 1, Eva left it out in the open that if a murder were committed on Rokkenjima, regardless if she was the culprit or not, people would suspect her anyway since she wanted the headship/wealth. She also mentions that if it were her, she'd make it look like an accident, rather than flat out kill everyone.

Plus, why are people ignoring episode 4's Eva? She pretty much died an early death since everyone thought that she was the real killer and was constantly depressed at the loss of George and Hideyoshi. But based on what she says in episode 1 (even if I didnt commit murder, I would be the top suspect), she clearly has the foresight to consider what her life would be like if she survived the murders.

Eva is not the murder. In episode 3, she flat out hides the fact she solved the Epitaph, which allowed the real murderer to continue the killings as if nobody solved it.

By this we can also establish an alibi for Rosa, since she was told that Eva found the gold, yet the murders continued regardless. If Rosa were the one who sent the letters, no murders would have occured.

>>3895642
>since she was told that Eva found the gold
This wasn't covered in red/gold nor seen by Battler, correct?

>>3895592
Oh just checked the red text, killed by someone else, oh well.

>>3895650

Neither was Eva's flashback/dream at the start of episode 3, yet that clearly happened. Same thing with Ange's flashbacks in Episode 4.

Just because Battler didn't see it =/= it never happened.

>>3895642
There actually is a theory with Kyrie's stomatch wound that says Eva only killed Battler in E3.
But that does not deny, that she is gunshit insane.
Also, Batora's flawless logic up there remains unexpained.

>>3895674
Battler not seeing only really to applies to the events of October 4th and 5th.

>>3895675

I can believe that she killed Battler out of temporary insanity. She wounded Jessica after she was suspected by her in being the culprit. Adding the fact that both her husband and son were killed, she was an emotional trainwreck.

Hell, in episode 5, she beats the shit out of Natsuhi after everyone thinks that she is the real murderer.

>>3895675
I vote also for Rosa after she discovered Maria's corpse, it was Evba or Rudolf, and it was said in red that Hideyoshi was in the room the whole time and smoking, so it's highly probable Eva killed Rosa

>>3895674
Well doesn't prove it does, for example Natsuhi talking to Kinzo in Ep1.

>>3895642

Well if we're discussing culprit suspects here's my two bits. Going off of just Red/Gold Text and Knox's rules, we can eliminate the following people from the original 19 as being the culprit.

Battler
Beatrice (any incarnation)
Kinzo
Natsuhi
Maria (?)

From here, based off of how the first 4 episodes have played out (this list may change after I read Episode 5), I believe the following people can also be excluded from the culprit list based on my assumption that the culprit remains alive until at least Episode 1, though they may have been thought to be dead during Episode 1.

Rudolf
Kyrie
Rosa
Gohda
Nanjo
Genji
Kumasawa
Eva
Hideyoshi
Maria (in case Red/Gold/Knox doesn't allow her to fit into the first category)

Therefore, the culprit is one of the remaining five.

Krauss
George
Jessica
Shannon
Kanon

I haven't gone much further than this since I don't know the exact wording of that Red/Gold text regarding the knowledge of the location of the gold on the island.

>>3895705
Rosa and Maria were killed by other people

>>3895693
Support that Jessica is a Touhou fan.
But well, Ange is not the detective in the future either. You can believe her because she said in red that she is Ange from the future but that's pretty much it. Furthermore, the whole scene with her killing Kyrie's sister is incredibly weird and at least it's last part hadn't ever happened.
Many theories take what they want from flashbacks in E2 but don't wholly accept them. Which is wrong, you either accept everything or say it's all a lie.

If Eva does turn out to be the real murderer, I'd be disappointed.

>>3895711
With the E6 cover, it seems like an actual rivality between Jessica and George. That kinda implies there being multiple culprits after all. What I want to put a little thought to are those "fractions" in Umineko. As far as it goes, they seem to be divided ike this.

1)Eva family Branch(Eva, George, Hideyoshi, possibly Shannon) Presented by the whole E3. Most likely working as a very good team, as implied by the cigarette butt and the ending of E3. That's Battler's Flawless Logic "I was with you the whole time so that you won't kill anyone yet someone still died. Therefore you are the culprit, Oba-san!". Something major is missing, like George's or Hideyoshi's corpse in the hallway beside Nanjo. Both are possible. Hideyoshi's wound is not that hard to fake or survive, also Evatrice TIP'd us with "How careless, he was still alive". George's stomatch wound is really easy to fake or not die from it right away, also the time between dying from blood loss in the case of such wound not damaging your aorta is pretty much the same. After 2-3 hours, you would either die from the blood loss or choke to death(if the blood stays inside). As for George faking, same goes for E2. Not to mention stomatch one is not only the easiest to fake. It is actually hard to imagine anyone would die just from that.
2)Rosa family branch(Rosa+Maria team. In crazy theories Maria's father...?). With the time, Rosa is less and less suspicous(Because E2 has simply too many other possible culprits), so if it's not Rosa alone, we really can't guess her accomplices. But it should be noted she didn't find it strange that she threw out six people and suddenly, five are dead and Genji came to report it alone after she threw him out herself, yet she felt an absolute need to throw Battler out after that. Weird. As for the master keys, those don't prove anything, because in E4 there was a lolbundle of keys lying before the church(along with Maria).

>>3895740
3)Rudolf family branch(Kyrie, Rudolf, Battler. In crazy theories Asumu...?). Kyrie and Rudolf appear to be pretty much clean. Aside from how they might've worked together in E3 to take out Hideyoshi, they always die before we know it. In red. Battler is the detective, so he knows nothing by definition. But since E5 onwards, I believe Rudolf's branch should be already taken as believable, because in the end, Battler can't trust his piece anymore.
4)Krauss family branch(Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica, very propably Kanon, implied Gohda) Krauss keeps dying in red, quite soon at that. Kanon, aside from the strange manner of his deaths, is almost confirmed to be the culprit in E1. (or one of the half-smashed faces is a fake since those are the only ones unconfirmed, or Piece-Beato comes something after first twilight, like by a helicopter) Jessica stood beside Kanon's body with Nanjo and took care of him, so that's very suspicious. Also death in E2 is implied to be faked, E4 is damn hard to fake, but damn strange and she is MISSING KIHIHIHIHIHIHIHI twice. Natsuhi obviously does protect Jessica at all costs. I don't believe she is faking how she can't control her emotions, so I also believe she does love Jessica. If you look at it this way, the most important question in E1 becomes "Why did Natsuhi have to die?" E5 has a tiny bit of an answer, but that's all for now.

>>3895740
5)Piece-Beato side: After E4 it became very plausible that Piece-Beato exists. After E5 it became pretty much impossible for any of current characters to pretend being Beatrice, because it's against Knox.(No one ever said Jessica or Shannon are similiar to the portrait and Piece-Battler recognizes her as "the portrait's character") So if Battler didn't go crazy at the time as implied by him mentioning Bern, Piece-Beato is the person X and all the crimes can be well explained with her existence. The idea is also said very, very early in E1. The problem with it is the "no more than -maxpeoplecount- rule". She can never be the one to do the first twilight, other than the situation where some servants Battler didn't see in some episode would be already dead to begin with. But it being stated with "no more than" obviously means that corpses don't count.
In E3 Eva survived and with the numbers being left behind at George's murder, also with the metaworld happenings at the time, I believe Piece-Beato died in E3. Also in E4 to lay out the final riddle. As for E5 it would be nice to discuss what could've happened with her, but I won't spoil, myself.
Genji is very suspicious in E2(Could've killed pretty much everyone without any alibi at all) and implied to favor the side of the the witch. If he knew Kinzo is dead, Piece-Beato would give his life a new meaning. Um, it might sound strange, but if you are perceptive, Genji is actually heavily implied to be Maria's dad. At the very least, he almost never says a word but scolds her twice right before Piece-Battler's eyes.

>>3895719 Many theories take what they want from flashbacks in E2 but don't wholly accept them. Which is wrong, you either accept everything or say it's all a lie.

The basic message of the flashback/anything that Battler doesn't see is true (Kasumi and her goons died on Rokkenjima and 6 people always die in the first twilight, respectively). What is embellished is how the events actually happened (Stakes v. snipers, magic v. poison or guns).

There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing what elements to use from flashbacks/scenes that are not witnessed by Battler. Just don't get upset when someone draws a different interpretation of the events.

>>3895740
Rest: Maria is a wild card. Who does she play an accomplice to is pretty much decided by who is her Beatrice - which we still don't know. Can be Rosa, can be Kumasawa, can be Jessica(if we are to believe she is a tsurupettan). Nanjo, I guess, is helping to whoever is just winning and is somehow convinced to say everyone are dead even if they aren't. Kumasawa seems clueless and from those two panic scenes with Gohda one can't read anything. The only thing that can be said about her is that she usually plays along.
Now you can discuss.

I know this is retarded, but I really think that Genji is the killer based solely on the fact that in Episode 2, he said that he couldn't leave to go to the Guest House with George/Shannon/Gouda since he had to be available for Kinzo at all times.

Yet, based on Episode 5, Natsuhi, Krauss and all of the servants know that Kinzo is really dead. Why would Genji continue to lie in the middle of a killing spree if there was no point to it?

so EPIC xD

>>3895744

I dont get it. Battler isnt the culprit in episode 1-3, yet he may be in episode 5?

So does that mean that the culprit constantly changes or something?

>>3895773
Define "culprit". Eva is the culprit of at least one murder in E3 while she is dead in red even though people die, so yes, there are multiple culprits. I did not want to say everyone there is a killer, it's just "if he is a killer, how is he doing it?". This way of fractions make most sense because those people have a lot of time to prepare everything together.

The idea of Kyrie and Rudolf killing is that the setting for Battler's piece is changed in E5 - he is told beforehand that it will be a bloody battle and how to act accordingly.

>>3895759
It's not copypasta, I'm posting this straight from my theories folder for the first time here.

I think that the culprit is always the same, it's just that in EP3 something went horribly wrong for the culprit.

>>3895740
>>3895744
>>3895746
>>3895748

The different factions thing is interesting to consider. The only problem I have with it is that it can devolve quickly into a convoluted mess similar to the Pony Theory. However, until the validity about corpses not being counted as people and the closed room status of the island is established, I'm not sure what else I can add to the discussion.

>>3895825
In all the games, does Battler see every character alive at least once?

>>3895835
They always sit down to dinner together, only Kinzo is never seen.

>>3895840
Didn't they also sit together at Lunch in Episode 1? (Can't remember if it was the whole family and servants or not)

>>3895835
>>3895840
Only the family sits down together (and Nanjo), the servants are not all in there at the same time.

>>3895864
Well they always meet Shannon, Gohda & Kumasawa. I'm not sure about Kanon & Genji.