/jp/ - Otaku Culture

/jp/ logic.

Untranslated VN = Good

Translated VN = Bad

Are you saying hints weren't dropped? Really?

Tell that to the people who managed to figure it out before it was even revealed.

Don't get mad because you're slow

Holy fuck you must be fucking retarded.
There were a fucking lots of foreshadowing, I actually reread it quickly and was amazed at how many hints they put.

Ingnore the faggots who didn't see it either but are pretending they knew, because you know, seeming witty on /jp/ is everything to them.

>>3842695
It's not a question of whether people saw it coming or not.
Just that they did fucking put a lot of foreshadowing and hints for that twist, only a retard would deny it.

>>3842695
Some people did figure it out before it was revealed. I personally didn't, but I can see how it wouldn't be *too* hard to realize it. It's not like huge hints weren't dropped.

You've never played a Looseboy game? You like it or you don't. Anyway, Sharin no Kuni opinions thread.

>>3842684
Pretty much, yeah.

Troll Ririko always related.

Yeah I didn't figure it out either, but I personally know for a fact of at least 3 people that did.

But yeah, putting aside whether or not you figured it out, saying there's no foreshadowing is a bit silly. The interesting part of the plot twist is that it relies on the logic of the world they built, so if you're engrossed into the world they established enough, it's plausible to figure out. If you saw it "coming out of nowhere" you just weren't set enough into the mindset of the world they built

Alright, fine, you see the godawful hints and 'retards' such as myself didn't. But why must it be kept a secret during nearly the entirety of the VN? I understand no one is supposed to interact with this certain character but the MC could've made her presence clear to the reader so I ask what is the point of this shit, really? Nothing. There was no point. The writers just hoped to make you shit your pants just for the hell of it, a forced plot twist, how appalling.

>>3842709
>You've never played a Looseboy game?
Considering Sharin is the only Looseboy game fully translated, I doubt it.

No, the point was to throw an example of how the world operates at you in a surprising way to sort of make you guy "lol oh yeah". I mean yeah, it's done for surprise, you know, just like every plot twist ever. But that's not ALL there is to it.

Title screen.
Sachi, Touka, Natsumi and Ririko Badge.
It is pretty obvious that the last chapter would be Ririko chapter.
Kenichi dropped a freaking suitcase full of girl clothes, you didn't ever wonder what is it for?
Apparently keep talking to himself and saying good night to his onee chan.

I didn't see it as she was always there coming but I was expecting her to show up in chapter5.

>>3842715
Not a forced plot twist, it just shows how harsh her obligation is.
And what did you want? Kenichi comes at the beginning and explain everything in a huge wall of text way?
Novel don't work that way, to keep the reader interested, you have to reveal everything little by little.

No, the point was to throw an example of how the world operates at you in a surprising way to sort of make you go "lol oh yeah". I mean yeah, it's done for surprise, you know, just like every plot twist ever. But that's not ALL there is to it.

Also, it answers a question that readers would have been wondering through the majority of the mid-half of the game. A question that readers would know would be coming up in that chapter. So it's not like OMG WTF THAT IS COMPLETELY OUT OF NOWHERE.

>>3842715
>MC could've made her presence clear

There is no way MC would break the law by doing this.

Sakurada, are you coming or not?

>>3842719
I assumed a lot of people here played GSNM, through AGTH or whatever.

As for me, that particular SnK spoiler is what made me play the game. To each his own, I guess.

You're fucking retarded, Ririko even TALKS in Touka's chapter.

>>3842745
It is probably Sharinrada troll trolling sharin without his trip.

Played through again to score the harem end, I just noticed the MC set the whole "talking to himself" thing up when learning about Ririko. Kinda skipped through the first time.
A MC with a brain is a nice change of pace.

Fandisc translation fucking where?

The problem isn't the way the plot twist was foreshadowed. It's the way it completely bypassed being revealed by the narrative. We do hear Kenichi's internal monologue (unless you want to insist all of it is him talking to himself out loud), and it's really, really unplausible that no thoughts about his sister being there would surface at any point whatsoever.

Unreliable narration the way Higurashi pulled off is tolerable, if not good writing. But reliable narration only with parts selectively cut off is amateurish. The author went through a lot of trouble to get a HOLY SHIT NO WAY out of you, at the expense of writing consistency. Sure, nothing forces the author to provide complete internal monologue, but it is a matter of good taste that you don't come up with something that the character was thinking of all along, yet you didn't get to be informed about. This causes a breach in the reading enjoyment; it declares you cannot hope to properly understand the character because anything might have been witheld for you. For the sake of a silly plot twist with no other function than to shock and impress, no less. No writer worth his salt would ever do this.

Sharin no Kuni remains pretty good overall, though.

>>3842804
Morita knows too much for us to be allowed to hear all his internal monologues.
Like we didn't know about his plan in Sachi's route.
It has nothing to do with good or bad writing.
The fact that there's some internal monologues doesn't mean the protagonist must bare everything to the reader.

>>3842804
>>unless you want to insist all of it is him talking to himself out loud
Could be possible.
Several time through the game, we see what seem like some internal monologue till one of the character come to tell to him to shut the fuck up.

And if you could hear his every thoughts, the majority of the game would be spoiled in the first five minutes.

Ever17 has a hidden character who is mentioned twice by name and hinted at with one concept (Third Eye) before his reveal.
Sharin has a hidden character who is mentioned countless times, hinted at with two concepts (Maximum Penalty and Involvement Clause), and had several other hints.
Nobody complains about Blick Winkel because of lol pseudoscience.

>>3842844
>>3842863
I'm not saying you should hear all of his thoughts, at all times. Sure, withholding something like memories, knowledge of a certain subject, a formed plan is fine and all. But his sister being next to him all the time is something that would have come up a lot. It would have affected many of his decisions (sure you hear him wonder what his sister would think/do in certain circumstances but that's nowhere near the implications of having her be right there), and his behavior on a day to day basis. It's fine for a character to withhold a secret from the reader if it's something rooted in the past, that wouldn't come up in his interactions.

Yes, technically you are right, but it still feels like a cop-out. Imagine me writing an extensive story about a person that spends alot of his time thinking about helping others. Then at the last second, I reveal that the ulterior motive of that was being able to manipulate and use them, and he's really the BBEG. It'd make for a hell of a twist, sure, but it'd also make my readers feel like they've been cheated. There's a limit to manipulating perspective and inner monologue, and doing it just to impress the reader is bad practice.

>>3842804
Personally, from the way I understood the world of Sharin, the characters are all so endoctrined in the whole obligation business since their birth that it even gets to their subconscious.

They were all raised in such a way that they really should think that the people that have the ultimate obligation aren't there at all

And I don't see why Morita couldn't be an unreliable narrator, there's a lot of scenes where his narration doesn't seem credible at all.
Could just be a way to harden himself by deluding himself.

>>3842893
That's an interesting and somewhat plausible theory. Though I personally don't see Kenichi as the type of character that would resort to self-delusion in such a manner. He's alot more likely to make the best of the worst and find a way to interact with his sister without anyone knowing (Hozuki's espionage doesn't go as far as security cameras). I mean, the whole forced-silent-treatment thig is pretty silly; people can communicate in many ways that don't have to be verbal and focused (body language, eye-cues, etcetera).

>>3842910
>people can communicate in many ways that don't have to be verbal and focused (body language, eye-cues, etcetera).
That's still illegal.

>>3842915
Maybe. But I'd love to hear how Hozuki could become aware of Ririko shooting Kenichi a particularly meaningful split-second glare in the safety of one of the girls' homes.

Sure, you can argue the average person is so indoctrinated with STARE AT PERSON WITH WAVY SYMBOL = DEATH that they wouldn't even think of breaking the law thus; but we're dealing with two people with an extremely close relationship and hardened personalities.

>>3842910
Obligation are really SERIOUS BUSINESS in that country, it's told in the game itself that Ririko's obligation is the first one children are taught about, and it's probably forced in their brains that they really should think these people aren't here.
You may think this is silly and easily avoidable, but it's something really serious for the people in that world.

And Kenichi may seem strong, but he isn't really mentally, there's a reason why he was so impressed by Sachi, Touka and Natsumi and why he failed the willpower test.
To harden himself, he really deluded himself into becoming a hardass bastard.

And we don't know how far Houzuki's surveillance goes, I wouldn't be surprised by anything he could do to be honest.

Go back on translating the fandisk, sunflower devs.

>>3842910
Houzuki's motive behind everything in the Special Individual test was to make Kenichi gradually question society and then to break all of his hopes of changing it. He wanted to make him a cog in the wheel country.
Kenichi's character development follows this path. He gradually comes to question why these "crimes" are punished. In chapter 5 he finally violates the Maximum Penalty. It seemed like a natural character progression to me.

I like to imagine Ririko schlicking at every point in the game, because it's highly likely.

Also, tiko-µ soundtrack.

>>3842953
>In chapter 5 he finally violates the Maximum Penalty.
'Violating the maximum penalty' is one way to put it. Finally communicate with the sister he's incredibly infatuated with, who preoccupies half his thoughts is another. You make it sound like he's worked up his courage to break the law and steal a bicycle.

>>3842935
He survived a month of torture, kept his cool long enough to dig someone out of a rock, and hangs around Hozuki who is pressure incarnate. If that doesn't count for a pretty damn hardass bastard, I don't know what does. It's a stretch to claim seeing the girls' demonstrations of willpower changed him; something like that is only gained from personal experience.

And, he does violate the law. He gets her clothes, food, yet somehow can't look her in the eye enough to get a hint or two. While the author might have written according to your theory of Kenichi's inner weakness, he did a pretty bad job of keeping consistency. This is why I hate the twist, if the author could have just given up on shocking his readers, the experience would have been less thrilling but alot more meaningful for character development purposes.

Answer me this: how is this even possible for such law to exist in any country? I mean, imagine the situation. I print out the emblem onee-chan is wearing, stamp it on my clothing, go rob a jewelry store or a bank or whatever; no one dares to look at me let alone interfere; I get home with cash, take the emblem off, live happily. No one ever saw my face.

This law can be abused tremendously. Other parts of game make little sense, but they at least do. This one is complete bullshit. Normal people -- and I mean not complete retards -- wouldn't have even thought that onee-chan could move around freely, we assumed she was sitting in some cell.

So, if you expected this plot twist, you are dim, not clever.

>>3842951
please, please!

>>3842998
I believe maximum penalty abuses are punished with instant concentration camping (or worse). Said shops would probably have someone allowed to watch over max penalties (like the official law enforcement group or something).

Otherwise, well, Ririko could get naked and start masturbating in the middle of the street and get everyone around into a camp at once, or stand in the way of someone and not move without problems or complaints.

>>3842998
It is mentioned that impersonating someone with the maximum penalty is a very serious crime. And I agree with you to an extent, not only because it would be abusable, but mostly because it'd take levels of monitoring, brainwashing and terror that'd make the Gestapo orgasm to make sure it is effectively enforced.

>>3843022
>>3843022
They are allowed to kill Ririko for self defense if she ever try to pull this kind of stunt.

>>3842996
>>It's a stretch to claim seeing the girls' demonstrations of willpower changed him
Not really, it's what happened, may seem sappy for you but that's how the story worked.
And it does count for a personal experience, he saw everything from a very close distance.

And his way to communicate with (talking alone, keeping her clothes with him) was probably the maximum he could do, and Houzuki most likely knew about it and allowed it (to later destroy his hope).

He did try to become a special advanced person, a dog of the nation, to save his sister, doing anything that could compromise this would seem unbelievable for him

>>3843027
If she attacks them physically. Somehow, public masturbation doesn't strike me as much of an assault.

>>3843022

> Said shops would probably have someone allowed to watch over max penalties (like the official law enforcement group or something).

And yet in last episode, on a scene where an execution was supposed to occur, organized by special person and guarded by military, no one was able to do anything about Ririko talking to people for such a long time.

>>3843022
>>3842998
People with the maximum obligation are still monitored by a special person you know, that are allowed to kill them whenever they want.

Enforcement of the Maximum Penalty is only as good as the special individual in charge.

>>3843033
Houzuki ordered his men not to kill anyone, didn't he?

>>3843039
I don't have any obligation. I'm a robber. No one is observing me. You really are dim, aren't you?

>>3843033
Well she did nothing but walk, grab a mic and start communicating with everyone. Houzuki himself interfered.
She can yell if she wants, but you're not supposed to listen. Also, were Houzuki's forces official military or his private guards? I don't remember.

There should be a regulation about public order and max penalties, yeah. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

But this still shouldn't be a very big issue since Houzuki can kill max penalties as soon as he deems they are a threat. He had Touka at gunpoint, if I remember correctly.

>>3842961
what music player is that?

>>3843058
foobar2000, bloated to hell and back. Managed to make it allocate more memory than Winamp, but I don't give a shit.

>>3843053
They aren't allowed to have personal possession.
See them with something like a bag or something they stole and it's a violation of the penalty.
When that happen, you can probably contact the special person in charge.

>>3843065
Did you make that on your own or are you using some premade themes? And what about those lyrics, which database did you get those off?

>>3843057
Special Individuals can do whatever the fuck they want to rehabilitees.

>>3843029
No, it does not count as a personal experience. If you'd see someone tortured in front of you, it's not likely you'd somehow garner the strength to withstand torture yourself from it. On the other hand, being subjected to torture would eventually increase your tolerance to it.

And leaving wether or not he gained strength in a moment of sappy realisation of humankind's resilience; he is strong enough to interact by pulling the talk-with-himself act, and buying clothes/food. It's unlikely that he would shut his eyes to Ririko's nonverbal communication (or that Ririko wouldn't communicate to begin with) if he's already bending the law to such an extent. They are not the average person, nor strangers; there would be enough communication to radically alter Kenichi's monologue at all points to reveal his sister's presence.

Furthermore, it'd be alot easier to go on these stretches if the ulterior reason would be anything other than PLOT TWIST. Imagine having Ririko revealed from the get-go; while it would have been a 'spoiler', would it have detracted from the experience, or conversely enhance it by leaving more room for character development and not creating these inconsistencies. It's bad writing no matter how you look at it.

>>3843070
He's talking about impersonating a Maximum Penalty'd person.

>>3843065
>>3842961
i want that theme

>>3843070
Well, people from robbed shop will contact police immediately, long before someone would see you with stolen goods. This won't help though, you'll be far away by that time, with bag of money and your badge off.

I can't believe you're arguing that this law is realistic and can't be abused.

>>3843072
Theme is DarkOne v1.6, which you can get from lolDeviantArt.

For the lyrics, you can get them manually from any website distributing LRC (timed) lyrics. just type "lrc whateversongalbumartist" into google. Weeaboo shit like openings, inserts and endings do have timed lyrics, but they're most likely on chinese sites. Use your common sense to look for the download button.

Or use an automated tool. I don't use one.

>>3843098
thanks a lot

>>3842673
stop spamming and ddosing Ａｎｏｎ Ｔａｌｋ .com also stop trolling and harassing us and remove all clones and troll articles and lies and leave us alone if u do this well stop posting these msgs forever

>>3843095
Didn't say it can't be abused.
But in that world, people are just so into it that they probably wouldn't.
Different set of value that they learned since birth and all.
Same thing happen everywhere in the world.

>>3843081
Something can impress you so much that it make you thrive to change yourself, that's what happened here.
And from what we learn in the fifth chapter, Kenichi was implicitly allowed the kind of things like talking to himself to communicate with Ririko or keeping his clothes with her.

So tell me, why the fuck would he do anything else that could undermine everything he did for years?
It's not believable, he knows there is limits, he knows that Houzuki is fucking broken, I don't see why he would try anything that could destroy his hopes to save his sister.

I wish my older sister was this awesome.

>>3843122
... OH, IT'S HER FUCKING HAND.

I've always looked at this picture and though the little boy was pregnant or something.

>>3843119
Life of people shown during episodes 1-4 suggests otherwise. They have same values as us and behave as we do, with just few quirks related to obligations. The point is, this plot twist is crap. It's illogical, it contradicts the story told so far and 'little hints' dropped here and there don't make it any better. That's why so many people are expressing disappointment.

>>3843086
People with maximum penalty are not allowed to interfere with other people. If somebody even tried stealing a bank, it would be violation of obligation, and the person would be collected. Then when they fond out that he was inpersonating somebody with obligation he'd be sent to concentration camp.

And nobody wants to be sent to concentration camp. You're better of trying to rob a bank in normal way.

>>3843134
What contradictions?

>>3843139
Collected by whom? Special person? We've seen a violation of obligation in ep5, and do one but Special person was able to do anything about it even though it was a political matter and not just money. Will he just arrive at the place in matter of mintes? Really?

>>3843119
So you're telling me he is make-believe talking to himself, because it's somehow tacitly allowed (how he found out it's tacitly allowed in the first place with his unwilingness to fuck over everything he's built, that you're stressing so much, aside) but he forces himself to stare in his sister's opposite direction at all times such that he doesn't get any feedback from her, which would lead to internal monologue the likes of 'Glancing at Ririko's expression, she's telling me to...'. Really, not even a glance? No feedback at all? Is Hozuki some kind of omniscient god to figure this out?

That Kenichi and Ririko wouldn't have established a way of communication somewhat more subtle than Bene-Gesserit hand signals is realistically impossible, unless you want to tell me they have chips in their brain. And trying to pass it out as something which doesn't have to figure in the internal monologue, even though it's half the character development in the story is supporting horrendous writing.

I started rereading Sharin and started jotting down scenes with Ririko in them.
Would have been a better idea to write which scenes DON'T have Ririko.

Crappy twist or not, it did provide me with this FUCK YEAH feeling. The one in the final chapter of GSNM is very similar; I guess that's just how looseboy works.

>>3843144
To make this law work, people have to be scared-to-death obedient puppies. Which, judging by story told in four first eps, is known to be false. This is contradiction.

>>3843134
Caste system in India.
Emperor considered as a God in old Japan
Racial segregration in old America
Voils in the muslim country.
Things like the noble and the serf during the middle age.

Things like this were/are seen as a matter a fact for the people living in these countries.
Of course a few people disagreed but the great majority thought it was perfectly normal.

Why? Different set of value that they learned since birth.
Same thing here.

And I don't see many people disappointed by this twists, heck from the previous threads, lots of people loved chapter 5.
The twist isn't illogical at all, it makes perfect sense given the context of the game and was perfectly well foreshadowed.

>>3843150
Even if he doesn't come in minute, he will eventually know it, meaning that the guy that has the obligation will be killed.
Or if it's someone who is impersonating, well enjoy having the entire police force behind your ass.

>>3843150
When did Ririko ever interract with other people in place that other people could see it? And no, when she was saving people with Kenichi they got the fuck out the moment they could and nobody caught them.

>>3843150
When did Ririko ever interract with other people in place that officials could see it? And no, when she was saving people with Kenichi they got the fuck out the moment they could and nobody caught them.

>>3843162
GSNM spoilers.

>>3843164
Have you ever read a novel about people (not nobles or kings but normal people that are having it tough) living in these conditions you listed? I bet you didn't. Life shown in SnK is nothing like it. If you consider SnK to have conditions similar to middle ages then every single scene in game would be pretentious bullshit.

>>3843163
Kenichi however, is initially shown to obedient dog of the nation.
He made Sachi fulfill her obligation even though it endangered her life.
He was ready to turn in Touka for not eating breakfast.

Let's not forget the game takes place in the middle of fucking nowhere. How the rules are handled is probably different within the city.

>>3843183
It was just one of the example though.
It doesn't have much to do with the level of "threath", more about the set of value that the people were raised with, that's all.
I can find you even more examples.

Of course you'll find some enlighted people who will try to rise up against this sort of shit, but these people are rare.

>>3842754
What does she say? I vaguely remember hearing a voice out of place but I didn't pay it any attention.

OP here. Finally reached the end and got Touka's end. What a sorry disappointment that was. I mean, come on, throughout the VN there have been 30-60 minute flashbacks plastered all over the place and now all I get is some shitty 5-minute tacked on ending? Fucking hell, man.

I really like Touka though, I normally dislike tsundere characters but she's a lot nicer, a lot more affectionate and a lot less violent than the usual tsundere bitches.

>>3843204
"You're working too hard, inspector" or something like that, at the beginning of the chapter (excluding the flashback).
The voice is not named, but it's obvious it's Ririko's voice; you heard the same voice, like, 5 minutes ago.

>>3843208
The ends, other than Ririko's are pretty crappy.

>>3843183
Actually it's easier to accept crappy condition if you don't live a hard life.
It's when you are living a shitty life that you try to rise against the oppression.

The fact that the people in the world of Sharin don't have that much of a bad life as a whole make it more likely for them to accept the obligation business.
Thinking logically, why the fuck would they endanger themselves if you can live a perfectly fine life by not making any fuss?

People are egocentric in nature, it's perfectly normal.

>>3843208
>I really like Touka though, I normally dislike tsundere characters but she's a lot nicer, a lot more affectionate and a lot less violent than the usual tsundere bitches.
She seemed like a child, which was the point, I guess.

>>3843208
Harem end, Ririko's end and Natsumi's end are worth doing.
Sachi if you want to see Mana again as well.
Touka has pretty much the worst ending.

>>3843212
There you go.

The flesh is weak.... Ive been meaning to let this shit slide, because quite frankly it doesnt strike me as SUGOISUGOI, but >>3843122 this picture brought my resolve crumbling down. I hate you /jp/

I didn't like Ririko's end. Ririko not trolling anybody is just not Ririko at all.

Sachi end - Sachi becomes established painter, Mana visits after becoming royal secretary
Touka end - Dinner with all three in-laws
Natsumi end - They have sex
Ririko end - Kenichi for President
Harem end - They take a picture

>>3843229
How do you get harem end?

>>3843239
VICTORY.

>>3843250
Don't commit to anybody.

>>3843242
>Harem end - All of the above

Fixed.

>>3843233
From the script:

;以下璃々子の声で
;The following is Ririko's voice
*page72|
[name txt="Voice"][vo s=rir_0369]"Inspector, you're a little too agitated."[np]\
;;[name txt="声"][vo s=rir_0369]"警部、興奮しすぎですよ"[np]\

>>3843229

Well, isn't that convenient, the only character I liked not only has the shittiest chapter, but also gets the shittiest end.

>>3843250
By not aiming for Natsumi and finish the game choosing the correct option at the last choice, I believe. I'm not sure if you need to complete all others before.

There's a walkthrough at http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.php?p=64185&postcount=11 if you ever need it.

>>3843263
She gets what she wanted and her parents approve of you.
You should be happy for her.

>>3843263
Shittiest chapter in this game doesn't mean much though, her chapter was still really solid.
And the ending was awesome.
Yandere MILF is my new fetish.

>>3843259
This pretty much confirms it.
Ririko for Miss Troll 2010.

>>3843282
>>And the ending was awesome
Ending of her chapter I mean, I agree that the endings in this game aren't that good.

>>3843280

My problem is that the writers didn't really bother much to show much of that happiness and ended shit too hastily.

>>3843282

I'm not saying I dislike Kyouko, but her emotional fits felt too forced for me. She knew that her daughter was going to accept her no matter what yet she does all that stupid shit in the chapter. I guess if the writers made her 'not dickshitting retarded' the chapter would've ended too quickly so they wrote her that way for filler.

>>3843322
>>She knew that her daughter was going to accept her no matter what yet she does all that stupid shit in the chapter
The problem was she actually didn't know that.
The one that has some real problems in this chapter is Kyoko, not Touka.

どもどもです
Gyafun.

>>3843337
>The one that has some real problems in this chapter is Kyoko, not Touka.
Hence the Wordsworth quote on the continue screen.

>>3843364
"The child is father of the man" or something?
Yeah it fits quite well with this chapter.

>>3843337

I pretty much already established this right around the beginning of the chapter. I just think Kyouka's a badly written character for being that ridiculously ignorant to her daughter's feelings and for flipping out like crazy much, much more than she needs to. But hey, if you can't think of a good plot or a proper way to convey drama, you have no choice but to make some characters overly emotional to display it.

Gyafun.

Kyouko was made unbelievably weak on purpose to contrast with the previous chapter's unbelievably strong Mana. They're showing the 2 polars of humans.

>>3843503
I don't see how she is badly written.
Parents who try to emulate their upbriging even though they had a really shitty childhood aren't rare at all.
Being an adult doesn't automatically make you stronger, plenty of people are still completely screwed up even when they become a mother or a father.
Kyouko is ridiculously insecure, that's not bad writing, that's just the way she is.

>>3843563
>>3843568

When she gone berserk during the dinner party, that was just too much for me. They could've wrote a better, more tasteful action for her character. The ridiculousness of that scene pretty much killed the mood for me which prevented me from fully appreciating the drama of the following scene.