/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Type-Moon is whoring Saber out.

She's letting loose now that there's no Shirou around

>>3839226
They've been doing that for years.

it's essentially admission of the fact that all new F/SN content is nothing less than fanservice.

She's dirty red now, if you know, what I mean.

They decided to make her take after Sakura more. Also what the fuck did they do to her breasts?

Maybe she's not the same Saber anymore.

Her legs are disgustingly skinny.

>>3839247
Well look at her fucking twig arms.

This is what happens when she suddenly becomes French.

Too much red. Type-Moon has gone communist.

Napoleon Saber is the best Saber

>>3839306
Napoleon was a man. Don't be stupid.

>>3839354
You're thinking of Joan of Arc

>>3839363
Now you're being ridiculous.

>>3839350
Now it's perfect. My eyes hurt now.

Joan of Arc can't be Saber because she wasn't a slut. she killed sluts for fun.

it's "Jeanne D'Arc", la pucelle d'Orléans.

Is there any real evidence that Saber isn't the same, just with a different outfit?

>>3839450
The game is not out, so no there is not.

>>3839450
The ahoge is proof that she is indeed Arturia

Who would you pick from 21th century?
Jet Li as assasin, lol?

3X FASTER

>>3839481
I choose someone from the 24th and a half century.

>>3839481
9 years doesn't really give all that much too choose from, bro.

>>3839499
IT'S CHAR!

So that's how he made so many men gay for him, he was actually a girl dressed up as a man and who could become a futa to fool his mistresses through his Newtype abilities.

>>3839481

>>3839535
King Arthur, he is a CHAR.

>>3839481
How about late 19th/early 20th?

>>3839563
Where are the sunglasses?

>>3839568
In that case, Audie Murphy as Berserker.

>>3839499
char'szakrello.jpg

Rider

>>3839622
Manfred motherfucking von Richthofen!

They're supposed to be martial arts masters.
How would we pick someone from 21th century (or 20,19)?
Dumb system.

>>3839304
Archer, what the fuck happened to your face?

Berserker

Lancer.

>>3839645
He has become moe. Like our good moe friend Gilles.

>>3839668
He's blind as fuck. Can't tell the difference between a British girl and a French girl.

Whites all look the same.

>>3839668

So if Saber is Joan of Arc now does that mean Gilles will be showing up instead of Gilgamesh?

>>3839692
No, you get the hybrid Gillesgamesh

>>3839692
I still want to know where people are getting this from.

Assassin

>>3839741
SWORDSWOMAN = JOAN OF ARC
NO EXCEPTIONS

>>3839741
In Zero, Caster mistook Saber as Joan of Arc, when she actually was King Aurthur. Due to Saber's new outfit, it could be that she might have a different background now, and Joan of Arc is a pretty good guess.

kinda stupid to dumbdown saber's design like that, whats wrong keeping it original? ohwell, saber sucks anyways.

>>3839750
>Assasin
Wrong Shiki there, buddy.

>>3839759
So new outfit = new background?

ok.

>>3839777
You forgot the new personality.

Didn't someone post that Arturia's son Mondred from one of the Fate art books looks just like Saber Extra?

>>3839765
Wrong SHIKI there, buddy

DISTRACTION CAMELTOE TO WIN THE BATTLES

>>3839784
No, of course not. What gave you that idea?

>>3839784
Mordred has no ahoge, wears armor and the skirt is based on Saber Alter's design.

>>3839790
The next page, Mordred-Kun~

>>3839790
What's with the excessive protection for the shoulders and heels? It restricts the use of his broadsword which requires large swings to be effective.

>>3839790
>>3839795
>>3839797

Wouldn't be the first time character designs have been revised.

>>3839807
Broad shoulders help disguise the fact that Moedred is a girly man.

As for the heels, no idea.

>>3839807
I like the design. The gauntlets look like they can be used as makeshift mace. If you are unarmed, simply punch the enemy's face until it caves in.

>>3839223

Sabatons, check. Kneecaps, check.
What happens if she gets hit somewhere else? For example, anywhere?

Utter failure.

>>3839833
Invisible Air applied to her armor so she can seduce men while combat ready.

21st century servants?

Caster right here.

>>3839850

Tesla is from the 19th-20th centuries.

>>3839860
Tesla transcend time

transparent skirts are the best thing to come from 2009

>>3839860
Derp, typo.

20th century. Although tesla can live whenever the fuck he wants.

>>3839780
What's different about her personality?

>>3839927

Beautiful. Needs couters, besagews and a helmet, but otherwise nothing short of excellent.

Anyone happen to know the status of Hollow Ataraxia?

>>3839954
Translation expected sometime in 2012

Saber is the best

>>3839304
You can see the hilt of her sword. That sure as hell isn't Excalibur or Caliburn. This is not Arturia.

>>3840166
Because she isn't allowed to use more than two swords.

So, when does this come out?

>>3840234
March

>>3840212

Because Arthur is not known for using more than two swords, unless you argue that Clement is a sword unique from Caliburn or Excalibur.

genderswapped Marche?

>>3840236

We see clips of her using lances every now and again. It's not unlikely to see her with a sword that isn't Caliburn or Excalibur. That said I really hope this isn't Saber.

>>3840166
They gave her a new design. They might have given her sword a new design as well.

>>3840252
It is Saber.

She might not have the same identity, but she is definitely Saber.

>>3840252
ATTN:

THIS IS CLASS SABER

OCCUPIED BY *UNCONFIRMED* JEANNE D'ARC

THIS IS NOT F/SN SEIBA

THIS IS FATE/EXTRA SABER

Looks like her boobs got bigger, too. Wasn't her chest always a little on the small side?

>>3840322
Capcom Better translate it

>>3840341
Fairly, but they might just look bigger because they're more exposed.

>>3840343
Not a chance

STOP TALKING ABOUT SABER GODDAMIT

IT'S FUCKING GODDAM EMIYA SHIROU TIME

>>3840343

Perhaps if either the PC or PS2 versions had been officially translated. Otherwise, not much of a chance in hell of being translated by Capcom. Atlus is our best bet for that.

>>3840353
Is Rin extremely short, or Archer tall?
A combo of the both? That picture confused me the first time I saw it

Maybe XSeed will pick it up since it's a Marvelous title.

>>3840355
This is a PSP game.

The PSP version of Fate/Unlimited Codes was translated, so it's possible.

>>3840361
Rin's just in the background.

>Shinji
>Good support character

HUH WHAT

>>3840365
Yeah, but Unlimited Codes is a fighting game with minimal text

>>3840368
Sakura doesn't exist so he has no reason to be an asshole anymore.

>>3840368

Speculation:

Shinji's Servant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquotte_Delahaye

>>3840365 This is a PSP game.

Well I have massively slowpoked then, as I figured this would be a PS2/3 game.

>>3840386

Is that a scar on her face? I don't remember seeing that before. Ooh, maybe she really is a pirate then.

>girly Rin
>long faced Lancer

HURRRRR

I can't wait for the new tier lists

>>3840386
I like it.
Good job anon.

>>3840386
So can we call her dead red?

>>3840361
Rin is normal for a Japanese girl, Archer is the one that's really tall.

>>3840398
RED ORT > Ort.

Looks like shit,captain.

Cybernetic battlesuit Lancer is god tier

>>3840410
Do you mean Tron Lancer?

>>3840404
ort confirmed for neon pink

>>3840368
Fuck i didnt realise that image was 480x640 sorry, ill look for more good sizes
>>3840360
>Tron Lancer

NEW BEST BRO CONFIRMED

Is this game is PSP exclusive ?

I have a really bad feeling about this...a RPG specifically made for a hand held? They'd better make it good..

>>3840432
Are you out of touch with games? There are tons of handheld RPGs.

>>3840322
Unconfirmed and completely untrue.

>>3840437

Yes, but most of it are just port from old games.

Try giving me a RPG title in PSP exclusive that isn't Crisis Core.

>>3840455
Ys 7
Monster Hunter series

>>3840455
Brave Story

>>3840464
>Monster Hunter

Not and RPG, and it was on PS2 in 2002+

>>3840464
Yeah,forgot about that MH freedom unite. Dunno about YS7 'cause I'm not interested in moonrunes.

>>3840468

Not PSP exclusive brah

>>3840486
>Not PSP exclusive

lol wut

>>3840497

>>3840515
lol wut, that's a completely different game. Even the main characters are two different people.

>>3840535

It's basically the same, with revamped character.

Hell, even boss fights are the same.

>>3840343
She's definitely not Arturia. Those tits prove it.

>>3840622
Maybe she pads.

>>3840630
Nah, she's definitely someone different.

uses red bendy spiky sword

not arturia

>>3840166
>>3840212
Well, this is an RPG game...

every char received an upgrade. except rider.

>>3840674
but Archer is exactly the same.

>>3840687
you can't upgrade perfection

>>3840687
Archer is Shirous upgrade.

Red-Saber = Jeanne D'Arc. Sword is probably Joyeuse, spear is probably derived from her standard rather than an actual weapon.

Like Arturia-Saber, will probably be vastly and inexplicably overpowered relative to her actual strength in history.

Moreso even because she was most likely a Counter Guardian, making it impossible that she forged her legend under her own power - and thus, would have shitty stats.

>>3840711
Why would her sword be Joyeuse? That makes no sense. It should be the sword of the chapel of Fierbois.

>>3840711
Cause versions of the legend did not already make Arthur a killing machine that mowed armies on his own.

>>3840724
The sword uncovered at the chapel was thought to have been Charlemagne's personal sword, which was - in fact - Joyeuse. This is a quick and easy possibility to latch onto for a new Saber's weapon.

>>3840734
Yes, but:

1) He wasn't generally regarded being as strong as some of the other Knights in his own myth. Galahad and Lancelot certainly come to mind.
2) Ultimately his life's work was a bigger fucking disaster than most other heroes, despite being better-known than almost anybody else.

>>3840766
Funnily enough, Lancelot is portrayed as stronger than Saber in Zero too for most intents ( backstory wise). But bastardized legends that got spread wise, he was top knight with a sheath that protects him from battlefield wounds tier.
And a hero's life is not always the most positive ones, regarding achievements and results.
Tragedy can always strike.

>>3840784
Lancelot's base stats are lower than Saber's by a considerable amount. With Mad Enhancement active he's a little better, and with Mad Enhancement + Alondite active he's a LOT better.

But "Mad Enhancement" is not an innate ability - it is a power inherent to the "Berserker" template that Lancelot is manifested as. Normally his stats cap out below Arturia's max, and he only catches up using Alondite.

I suppose, however, it could be argued that Berserker was weakened by his crappy Master.

For ref, Saber's max stats normally are STR A, Mana A, Endurance B, Agility B, Luck A+.

Lancelot's without mad enhancement/alondite are STR B, Mana C, Endurance B, Agility B+, Luck B - UNLESS his crappy master has weakened him, which is possible.

>>3840807
Backstory wise, they do mention that while Saber was the King of Knights, Lancelot was the BEST Knight.
Also, compare Shirou Saber to get the idea of how master influences you.

>>3840766
Not to mention Excalibur is only the most famous sword in legend.

>>3840784
Unless his base stats are weakened from having a crappy master, Lancelot would have to be slightly weaker than Arturia without using Alondite. (Given that his use of his Noble Phantasm is more free, though, he might have a slight advantage even then.)

>>3840766
Except Joyeuse was buried with Charlemagne, so that is bollocks.

>>3840814
Yeah. Deleted my post because the comparison was retarded. Saber only has a slight advantage between the two of them, even at max.

>>3840815
Excalibur also doesn't have the power attributed to it in F/SN. It was a good sword, sure, but the power was in the sheath. The sword that *actually* arguably had the whole "mass fucking destruction" shit attributed to it was Caladbolg, which cut the tops off of hills.

>>3840818
There are at least two or three different allegations as to what actually happened to Joyeuse in the end. That is only one of them, and Nasuverse doesn't give a shit about it.

>>3840842
Yeah, well, it's retarded, so no.

>>3840831
You may notice that a few things in F/SN get a historical upgrade for effectiveness.
A pegasus could not actually ram shit like that.
Excalibur also gets overpowered in every piece of fantasy (especially gaming) fiction that includes it for understandable reasons.
Call it real life hype.

>>3840353

No. Emiya Shirou is shit-tier.

>>3840847
How is that any more retarded than KING ARTHUR IS A TINY MOE MOE GIRL?

>>3840851
Yes, I know. It's one of my pet peeves, though. I would probably leave Excalibur's rank alone, make it anti-unit, and give it some power that would make it particularly good against someone like Berserker, rather than "wave motion sword".

Caladbolg, in the meantime, would be the A+-A++ Anti-Fortress weapon, and I'd probably let Caladbolg rank-up to A-Rank if it were thrown from the fork of the toes after being ritually prepared in a river.

>>3840912
>Caladbolg, in the meantime, would be the A+-A++ Anti-Fortress weapon, and I'd probably let Gae Bolg rank-up to A-Rank if it were thrown from the fork of the toes after being ritually prepared in a river.

Fixed.

>>3840907
No.

>>3840919

Yes.

>>3840912
Caliburn was given that exact role essentially.

>>3840907
>implying that Emiya is not the strongest servant in the 5th holy grail war

>>3840952
Technically he loses out due to Gilgamesh having Ea. Otherwise, pretty much. Having that degree of versatility is fucking scary for the Nasuverse.

>>3840952
>powerlevels

>>3840938
Yeah, I know. I think it's more fitting of King Arthur than "wave motion sword", but I've made that abundantly clear.

>>3840455
Do I get bonus points because it is a game about Jeanne de Arc?

My favorite legendary sword has to be the Grail Sword, someone took a piece of the holy grail, and forged it into a blade that can shoot green fire.

<-- Supposedly drawn by the artist working on Fate/Extra.

Looks... weird.

>>3840973
Strategy is more prevalent, but SRPGs may count.

>>3840973
No because no one has proof that she's the new Saber.

>>3840961
DID SOMEBODY SAY POWER LEVELS?

My favorite legendary sword was the Grail Sword, also known as the Sword of King David.

One of Athuria's Bros found it while on the quest for the Holy Grail, broken in two. To this end, he went out to seek the original smith of it and had it reforged.

Whoever wielded it would be victorious in any circumstance, and it was quite powerful to boot.

>>3840361
Rin's 5'2, Archer's 6'2. It's a combination of him being fucking HUGE for an Asian and Rin being petite. Yet she's the tallest out of the three heroines . . .

>>3840386
I never thought about pirates.

Great speculatan anon.

>>3840996
> Whoever wielded it would be victorious in any circumstance, and it was quite powerful to boot.

This, sadly, would probably translate to one of those fate-tied effects that Servants could fuck over by having high Luck.

Pic semi-related.

Red Saber can't be Jeanne de Arc because Jeanne de Arc would never wear something so slutty.

She would be in full plate mail (none of this armor dress shit that Arturia has doing) and would be indistinguishable from a male. At night she would go around stabbing prostitutes because she is LAWFUL-GOOD.

>>3841006
Gawain was a bit overpowered though, what with all the holy gear he had.

I'd like to see a Fate/Stay Night with him as a servant.

>>3841006
You can only beat a fantasy with a stronger fantasy.
I mean, I can think of 4 more swords of legends that granted victory no matter what.
You need to give an edge somehow or go 'LOL WUT, bring them in 10 meters distance and they fly off in separate ways'

>>3841020
What happens when a person wields a sword of promised victory in one hand and a sword of true ruin in the other?

>>3841027

they can divide by 0.

>>3841014
Good point. She's the anti-slut.

>>3841006
Luck is a fucking bullshit stat. They should just rename it "plot armor".

>>3841014
Nasuverse. King Arthur is a tiny little girl whose magus advisor gave a dick for shits and giggles one day and managed to impregnate her estranged sister somewhere during the middle of it all.

It is not at all implausible that Jeanne D'Arc would not look like she really should. (More to the point though, the only character other than Mordred that we know of to bear a resemblance to Saber IS Jeanne D'Arc, so unless it's some other Saber clone we don't know about one or the other is most likely.)

Further, since we know that Clarent resembles Excalibur and Caliburn superficially, we can reasonably conclude that the nasty-looking red thing Red!Saber has probably isn't Mordred - disregarding the fact that Mordred was a feminine-looking man rather than a woman.

>>3841020
>You can only beat a fantasy with a stronger fantasy

Luck is basically saying "fuck your fantasy, I define my own reality". It's a denial of fate. Basically, if your luck matched the Noble Phantasm's ranking you would trump it. (Many, many Heroic Spirits do not have this.)

Luck is just Plot Armor IRL anyway.

>>3841053
Conclude BY the nasty-looking red thing Red!Saber has, rather.

>>3841046
Call it 'heavens save your ass, fate has your back' etc. Every proper hero had it.
It wasn't for the sake of the plot, rather part of the job.

>>3841053
Rather, it means that the fantasy backing you personally up protects you from adverse effects.
You may avoid the 'guaranteed victory', but if your head gets chopped of manually, it does not matter much.

>>3841016
I'd like to see Gawain and the Green Knight in Fateverse. They're both ridiculous in their own little ways.

KOTOMINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

KIREIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

where are you ?;_;

>>3841053
But one of the strongest aspects of Jeanne de Arc was her hatred for prostitutes. She literally went around stabbing them at night, just because she could.

If Jeanne was stuck in that see through dress she would go fucking stab the holy grail herself for dressing her up like a slut.

>>3841053
The one hero of lore I can think of having enough luck to beat noble phantasms has to be Percival.

The guy fucking found the actual Grail.

Even EA would lose to his luck stat.

>>3841082
Id like to see Putin as a servant

And Nasu has Real Putin kill Servant Putin's master so Putin is his own master who runs the KGB and hurls axes over his 6 shoulders while bringing the Motherland's hammer upon SILLY ENGLISH PEASANTS AND IMPIRICAL JAPANESE FOOLS

>>3841103
NO GODS

Putin would be the strongest servant

>>3841091
She was also known for being a virgin.

She's so much better than Arturia, the slut.

>>3841120
I thought she layed with her most trusted allies

>>3841120
Arturia is also a virgin.
She just spied on Guinevere having fun with Lancelot.

>>3841103
Putin can, and HAS, killed servants.

Prove me wrong.

>>3841130
she made flippy floppy with her sister.

>>3841108
But Gil was Half God

Double Putin is the only thing which could beat Ryougi with Nanaya as servant

all this talk of Arturia and Jeanne makes me wish they would meet. and fight.

>>3841128
No.

>>3841139

>>3841130
Mordred's existence would like to have a word wit you. Unless you mean virginity as a women.

>>3841146
ryougi's not magic she couldn't sustain nanaya.

Also nanaya would run off at the first sign of fine murderable ass. He does it to white len all the time.

>>3841156
They would settle their differences over a nice cup of tea. No need to fight who is essentially yourself.

>>3841161
Dont need magic
Look at Soiuchirou

And yeah, Nanaya would just kill and sustain himself

>>3841172
>Dont need magic
>Look at Soiuchirou

Poor example. Caster could sustain herself.

>>3841172
Caster is an exception; she's a magus herself and can get prana from elsewhere. She just needs him to anchor her to the world.

>>3841172
souchirou isn't doing the sustaining because caster's having wild orgy mana draining sex every other night.

Remember the beginning of UBW where they find the warehouse full of impotent young males?

>>3841172
Caster sapped the entire city to sustain herself.
The human serves as an anchor first and foremost, outside of magical energy.
Also, frail humans are frail.
The jobber team.

>>3841091
Jeanne D'Arc went around chasing off prostitutes and bludgeoned one with the blunt of her sword once, supposedly. She did not go stabbing them, and she didn't even like fighting when it was NECESSARY.

I can't see her dressing like that realistically, but Jeanne probably wasn't that light-skinned and certainly wasn't a light blonde either. (More likely, she was dirty blonde if blonde at all.)

>>3841100
Ea doesn't care about your Luck stat. It is not a fate-altering effect. It just blasts the fuck out of time-space around you. (If Luck affected the usage of Ea, then Saber wouldn't have been hit by it even without Avalon.)

>>3841108
>>3841146
Gil was actually 3/4ths Gods. Either way, he hadn't ascended to actual Godhood, so he wasn't quite a God. Heracles is more questionable.

>>3841198
Gil didn't want to be a god, same for Lancer.

They had their chances and just decided Fuck your couch of divinity.

Hercules Did all his heroism as a human and not as a god is probably how his worked out.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing,_sexuality,_and_gender_identity_of_Joan_of_A
rc
>In "Saint Joan of Arc", published in 1936, she indirectly suggests that Joan of Arc may have been a lesbian.

Awesome, yuri route.

>>3841156
They would have no reason to fight. They would team up and be awesome together.

>>3841139
I still say Red Saber is that sister.

I wish to mana transfer Morgan.

>>3841290
I don't see it.

>>3841290
Le Fay was a caster not a saber.

>>3841298
And King Arthur was a man.

French whore

>>3841290
She would rape you. And you would love it.

>>3841329

English Slut!

>>3841329
Except she was known for her virginity.

>>3841290
Pretty sure they were half-sisters, so the resemblance shouldn't be so strong.

>>3841304
Le Fay/Morgause had to have been a magus because Mordred was supposed to have been a homunculus rather than a proper human. Hence why he's physically similar to Arturia despite not having had Caliburn to stop his aging.

>>3841366
True, but she had to have done something sexual with futa Saber in order to get the necessary "material".

>>3841385
Not really.
Cast spell, cum fills a bucket suddenly, let's craft homunculus.

>>3841385
>>3841396
Actually my point was that she is, by necessity, a Caster.

>>3841396
That's not as fun.

>>3841396
I still want to believe she had sex with futa Saber.

>>3841424
It's OK anon, you can still imagine Le Fay sucking off Futa-Saber and using the cum as a reagent.

>>3841161
I find the Nanaya / White Len thing quite interesting.

Nanaya's existence is solely due to the Tatari power of White Len, and White Len's existence is maintained by her being a familiar of Nanaya and getting prana from him.

So they're self-maintaining in blatant violation of reality, but get away with it because lol Nasuverse.

>>3841421
It's still feasible for them to be summoned as something else. Emiya Shirou supposedly can be summoned as Archer, Saber or Berserker, though not Caster because he's a shit magus.

>>3841470
One provides the ship, the other the anchor.
It's not that hard.
Unless you want to make everything supernatural presented as 'LOLO, Nasuverse', which kills the point.

I don't like this saber.
At all.

>>3841460
Mmm. That sounds amazing.

>>3841480
EMIYA could be summoned as an Archer, Saber, or Caster. He has never been flat-out insane enough to qualify for Berserker, unless you count his broken sense of self.

As for Caster-class, there's no way he couldn't be summoned as a Caster. In terms of magic circuit capacity he is above-average (if only just, but that's still extraordinary for a non-magus) and within the narrow context of his specialty he will actually turn out to be in the top 10 magi in the history of the Mage's Association.

For reference, Rin is probably in the top 100 by comparison, but she has much more broad ability because her specialty isn't as narrow.

On top of that, EMIYA in any of his incarnations is probably the most powerful "Faker" that has ever lived.

So actually, he would qualify quite nicely for Caster-class, and it would be confusing as hell if he got summoned that way.

>>3841480
Anyone can be summoned as Berserker.

... I wonder how that would affect a Caster...

>>3841091
>If Jeanne was stuck in that see through dress she would go fucking stab the holy grail herself for dressing her up like a slut.
Maybe that's the plot!

>>3841522
I thought a spirit could only be summoned as Berserker if they went berserk during their lifetime?

>>3841198
>Gil was actually 3/4ths Gods.
I thought it was 2/3rds... somehow.

>>3839223
Those high-heel metal boots make no sense at all.
How are you suppose to swing a sword with those?

>>3841516
>So actually, he would qualify quite nicely for Caster-class, and it would be confusing as hell if he got summoned that way.
Would it?
Maybe to people fighting against him.
And doesn't being a Heroic Spirit boost your parameters?
Caster type EMIYA would be more hax than usual.

And I thought the only real requirement was adding an extra line in the spell you cast to summon the spirit. Even then, most people go berserk at some point in their lifetime. Even Emiya Shirou went berserk at several points, like when fighting against himself.

>>3841543
That's what I thought.
Gives you a boost in all parameters at the cost of sanity or some such.

>>3841543
Yeah, a dude has to be pretty crazy to beat himself up.

>>3841539
"Oh, you're Caster, right? What can you do?"

"I fight with my swords. And throw swords at people."

"..."

"I can also shoot a bow."

"......"

"What's wrong? You're being awfully quiet."

"Worst. Caster. Ever."

>>3841539
Being a heroic spirit by itself does not boost your parameters. You CAN be stronger than you were in life if your Master is supplying you with a truly colossal pool of prana (See: Sakura.) but generally you cap out at "strong as you were in life".

>>3841516
Emiya would have been solely Berserker at the end of Mind of Steel bad end. to kill such a fine piece of ass he must be crazy.

>>3841553
Then he UBW'd and people cried.

>>3841560
Being a Heroic Spirit would make you "at your best". Meaning you'd be at your ideal physical condition, plus any skills you'd ever gained during your lifetime you'd be able to use. Also, apparently, they have a lot of time to do whatever they want after dying, so they can probably gain new skills then, and while working as heroic spirits. If I go by what Archer said in UBW.

>>3841560
Emiya isn't really outstanding ability wise.
Archer can rape him quite easily in most cases.
Emiya has a lot of trouble projecting due to human limits.
Archer has no such trouble.
I also recall something about Emiya not having enough circuits to even use UBW normally while Archer pulls it out rather easily.

Been a while though, I might be forgetting facts that overturn my statements.

>>3841584
"EMIYA". As in, Heroic Spirit "EMIYA', not 'Emiya Shirou'.

As for Shirou's reality marble: He has sufficient capacity to deploy it on his own, or else he would rebound for casting beyond his means in a single sitting. The problem is that he would have no mana left to sustain it or perform any additional projections, hence why he needed Rin's help. But that's neither here nor there.

>>3841574
Being a Heroic Spirit means you're stuck in the Akashic Record until you're summoned as a Servant or you're deployed as a Counter Guardian. Otherwise it's essentially eternal stasis - and only Counter Guardians (See: Archer) or weird cases like Saber can "change" there. Otherwise the original stored within the Throne is inviolate and will never learn new skills or experience what the "copies" that are summoned do.

Note: Archer IS a Counter Guardian, and he is an exception to the usual rules. A Heroic Spirit like Lancelot will never be summoned out of circumstances like the Heaven's Feel Ritual - he just sits and rots in the Throne forever, a recording of the apex of humanity whose potential is essentially lost.

>>3841569
The fact that he'd have infinite fake noble phantasms would be awesome too. Well, he's unknown enough that even if he used UBW no one would know him, not even his younger self. I still think there's no way he should have lost against Berserker in Fate. Silly stupid plot hax.

>>3841607
He shouldn't have. A mildly superhuman Shirou (And yes, he WAS *mildly* superhuman - Kotomine was still physically superior.) was able to kill Berserker by means of Nine Lives.

Archer should have had no problem, even if he was still a little injured.

>>3841605
I'm fairly certain that normal Guardians still get summoned back to the world to protect it. The Counter Guardians are just the ones that get the worst jobs.

>>3841584
Shouldn't Emiya have a fuckton of circuits, since he was making a new one every night (at risk of death)? Or was he re-making the same one every time?

>>3841607
>I still think there's no way he should have lost against Berserker in Fate.
I am inclined to blame Rin.
She just did a really really REALLY crappy job at summoning.
Worst. Magus. Evar.
Now if Illya were to summon Archer...

>>3841605
It was in reply to people having enhanced abilities as heroic spirits, hence "Emiya Shirou" and not "EMIYA"

>>3841613
>>3841607
Dark Berserker is a crippled, blind much weaker and possibly without even Godhand version, and Shirou would still die if Berserker did not stay his had and he used Archer Arm. So, no.
Also, Berserker is Archer's worst match-up. The reason is the Godhand which is a concept shield.With Archer's weapon downgrade, overcoming it is a great hurdle.
And he killed him 6 times even at a severe disadvantage. You should consider it a testament of his awesomeness, not 'LOL, PLOT DOWNGRADED HIM'.
You guys have a bad perspective for that scene.

>>3841615
No.

"Heroic Spirits" are just humans that were preserved. They do not get summoned into the world, and have no contract to assist humanity OR gaia in any way, shape, or form.

"Counter Guardians" gained their power by making a contract with the planet. In exchange for their service after death, they were able to be heroes in life. If they are accepted as heroes during their lifetime (Archer was not), then this contract can be broken and they are elevated to true "Heroic Spirit" status.

Apart from EMIYA and Saber, the former of whom is a Counter Guardian and the latter of whom is an unusual (contract) case who would have become a Counter Guardian, no other Heroic Spirit expresses even the slightest hint that they're being summoned repeatedly, much less into "atrocities".

>>3841613
The worst part of that is, Archer could have used the same ability Gilgamesh did... only he'd actually be stronger because lolrealitymarble. And he didn't even need to actually defeat Berserker there.

... Then again, if he hadn't died there, there would have been no way for Shirou to win, so lolplothax.

>>3841613
I think it may have been because Archer was trying to delay Berserker more than kill him. Whereas Shirou was actually trying to one-shot him.

>>3841630
No, he can't.
I think people forget how UBW and Godhand works.

>>3841613
Berserker would have killed him, but he was reminded of a scene from long ago.

Years ago, he had witnessed a young boy trying to jump a bar...

>>3841628
Don't Counter Guardians have a contract with Alaya rather than Gaia? Since they're deployed to protect humanity (by killing individual humans) rather than to protect Earth?

>>3841642
F/SN does not say 'Planet', rather 'the World'.

>>3841636
I'm remembering how the Fake ability works, and I'm certain that Archer has seen the chains before and can therefore copy them. And besides, if he was just trying to delay Berserker, he could have escaped or played 'hide-and-seek' not fight within arm's reach of that monster.

>>3841628
I'm certain there were some lines in UBW where Archer and Saber were talking that mentioned that Heroes were also summoned back to the world to fight. I uninstalled the game though so *shrug*

>>3841658
'I am fairly certain' does not mean he has. No indication of it.
Plus, there is the matter if he would even be fucking able to.
And even if Berserker is immobilized, you miss the point that DAMAGING him, immobile or not, is very hard.

>>3841658
IIRC, the chains are Rank A. Archer would recreate them at Rank B (-1 for a copy) at double mana cost, and have them ignored because nothing below A rank can affect Berserker.

>>3841621
Shirou has 27 circuits. For a human who is not from a magus bloodline, this is basically unthinkable.

>>3841627
>Dark Berserker is a crippled, blind much weaker and possibly without even Godhand version, and Shirou would still die if Berserker did not stay his had and he used Archer Arm. So, no.

Dark Berserker was blind, but we did not see this impede him in any particular way. He was still able to follow Shirou and Ilya just fine, and there was no indication that he was physically less than his best.

In fact, if we use Saber Alter as a yardstick then we can reasonably argue that Berserker was STRONGER than he was normally, since his mana support would have been phenomenal even compared to Ilya. At very least, he would not have been weaker.

To this end, the only mark against him is the blindness, which I will give you. There is no reason, however, to believe that his God-Hand was not active.

>Also, Berserker is Archer's worst match-up. The reason is the Godhand which is a concept shield.With Archer's weapon downgrade, overcoming it is a great hurdle.

Archer has hundreds to thousands of weapons, and conceivably Nine Lives at his disposal. Even as a "bad match-up", we can reasonably conclude based off of my previous statements that there's no reason he shouldn't be able to overcome Berserker using Nine Lives.

Also: Archer's attacks are highly efficient. Using Broken Phantasms to achieve an attack ranked over B would not be that difficult, and even under less than ideal circumstances he believed that he could use Excalibur (B++, which parameter-wise exceeds a basic A-Rank Attack without using broken phantasm) safely (for him) even after deploying his reality marble.

Based off of Nine Lives alone, it's not reasonable to think that he can't beat Berserker, and it's kind of stupid that he couldn't even bring him down that far without escaping.

>>3841678
Nothing below rank B can *hurt* Berserker. Other effects need not apply.

>>3841678
Being chains instead of swords and the fact that Archer may have never even witnessed makes the possibilty of Archer utilizing them even smaller . Also, the chains are never given a rank (they bind depending on the target's divinity).
You guys make up a lot of shit and forget what the VN tells you.

>>3841680
Addendum: Nine Lives would also not cost much "mana", since it is a technique rather than noble phantasm in and of itself.

In fact, its origins are in an *archery* technique that Heracles uses, Shirou just applied it to a sword instead. Conceivably, Archer could use it from a distance as it was originally meant to be. Worse yet, he could combine it with things like Broken Phantasms to amplify the effect.

>>3841680
Berserker's divinity went down quite a bit, and he was slower. In fact, I'm pretty sure he was still wounded from Saber's excaliblast, which would mean that he's not regenning very well either.

It's still an amazing feat for Shirou. But the thing is, Archer Emiya has lost canonically to Berserker. Regardless of what he 'could have done to win', he did not do it and lost. That means a bit more than speculation over whether or not he was actually trying to win.

He's damn flexible, broken phantasms give him excellent firepower, but he's not the strongest by any means at any point.

>>3841680
Nine lives is an attack method (fast attacks, simply enough).
No above B rank weapon, Nine Lives does SHIT on Normal berserker.
Projecting Weapons that end up strong enough to bypass Godhand is not an easy issue.
And as seen in UBW, Berserker handled Broken Phantasm Caladbolg Rank A just fine.
Bypassing the Gohand (which nullifies) does not take away Berserker's NATURAL monstrosity.
So, you have Archer, in a small space, having to constantly conjure his BEST weapons that overtax him against a monstrosity that chases him and can take RIDICULOUS punishment (see Gil fight where Gil bypasses Rank issue).
Archer is at a severe disadvantage no matter what. And still kills him 6 times.
Also, you should reread teh Dark Berserker segments more carefully. Nigga was a rotting, crippled version in comparison.
Not every heroic spirit handles the mud well.

Archer is awesome, but you guys kinda overestimate him.

I got it!
Archer, halfway through the battle, used Rule Breaker on himself and bargained with Illya.

>>3841767
I now have this image of Archer getting summoned into another Heaven's Feel, groaning, saying "fuck this shit", tracing Rule Breaker, stabbing himself with it and then wasting prana to make himself get de-summoned.