/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I want to fuck Shinki and all of her daughters

>>37321286
Sex is bad, try thinking beyond your forced instincts.

>>37321278
Yes, it's not the same, but it doesn't mean it's for the worse. LoLK and UM, for example are very good.

>>37321278
All I can think is the girls started looking less like dolls and the plots became more grandiose, but I think that's a good thing. You can only make so many diaper hat girls before they all start to blend together.

>>37321668
You really don't understand.

>>37321356
>LoLK and UM, for example are very good
Secondaryfag opinion

no, you're just associating old touhou with when you were younger and happier

>>37322851
Secondaries don't even care about newer games except for maybe the fighting ones.

>>37322851
I play on Lunatic.

>>37323195
No, I'm not I was just as sad back then and I wasn't much younger.
This blaming everything on nostalgia is getting a little old.

>>37322851
You're so pathetic.

>>37323195
This.

>>37321278
4 and 5 were good
6 was woah
7 was comfy
8 was tense
9 didn't do it for me.
>>37322851
Stop causing discourse, Seija.

I'm reading through ZUN's art books from like 2005, and definitely feel like there's a certain charm to that era I guess

>>37321278
The plots changed, the world became larger as more side works and decimal games happened, we stopped getting bosses as playable characters in mainline games, and we lost all hope of Mima ever coming back.
Things changing was inevitable, any long running series will eventually change.

>>37321278
That's what archives are for.

Well, the games are still fun, and the music is still a pleasure to listen to, and the characters and stories are still engaging... kind of.
But the old music always makes me think of Shakespeare. It feels like it's meant to evoke an image of 400 or 500 years ago - gothic images in EoSD, images of nature in MoF, images of feudal Japan in IN, and all three in PCB.
Nowadays we have more modern images. An all-out war full of nationalism in LoLK, a mixture of spirituality and brutal gang warfare in WBaWC, light-hearted card trading mixed with nostalgia for the death of mining in UM.
To me, that's what's changed.

>>37333749
Don't live in the past.

>>37340345
Nothing stopping me

>>37322851
You take that back

>>37334110
I don't know it was something else than what you are saying. Maybe that was part of it but I can't put some of it into words.
Touhou 9 and onwards just seems more sad doesn't it?

Louise thread?

>>37322851
You don't know what a secondary is

Recommend me some good doujins of the PC-98 characters. It is a rare breed of doujin, endangered. And there’s plenty of stuff from those games that would be interesting to explore.

>>37353498
This isn't a PC98 doujin but rather just a gag doujin about Mima in Windows era that I enjoyed.

>>37350899
I love Louise but this is a thread about how we could convince ZUN to make EOSD 2.
I mean seriously who the fuck cares about markets or whatever ZUN is into now a days.

>>37355459
ZUN isn't interested in making an EOSD anymore, he's got to move the plot ahead further. Maybe the game he makes with his children will be more like EOSD.

>>37355459
>how we could convince ZUN to make EOSD 2.
Beer?

Personal take on it - i think that orignal games 6-9 and PC98 ones, were a lot more fairytailish. They had much surreal themes, with a big focus in incidents themselves. A girl created red mist, endless night, someone stealing spring - they felt like a bit darker takes on children books.
In general in those games it felt that incidents themselves are main focus that really bound everything in game together. Also all main antagonists had alot more "innocent" and generally wacky goals like wanting to go out or wanting to know whats buried under the tree.

It all changed in MOF. Kanako had far more pragmatic goal and was alot more (for a lack of better word) explained. While it still regained alot of charm, it felt alot more modern in its writing with characters having understandable goals and their plans being more elaborated.

>>37373183
I agree with all this. I like MOF and its characters and it added good stuff to the lore, but you’re right it’s the point where touhou stopped being “vague” in that weird sort of whispy, dreamy, braintingles sort of way.

Also might be worth noting that SA and UFO have plots that are directly following the events of MOF. Earlier games would make previous bosses playable, but had plots wholly self contained. MOF is a bigger turning point than 6, which if you played after 1-5 you might not even realize was a reboot (hell, some people still debate that a bit).

>>37355390
98 characters mingling with modern era ones is perfectly acceptable for my doujin rules, thankyou.

>>37373183
Think ZUN reaches a nice "middle" ground on the side games between self contained plots but also connected to other main games and side games. Think it's so because while the main plot or premise might be connected to other things, the antagonist's motivations are usually surreal or whimsical like in early Touhou. In 17.5 it connects the story to the several players and factions of Genskyo and has Tougetsu have a clear motivation to why she's the antagonist but she's also there because she wants to drink fucking petroleum.

>>37321278
>Can you feel it too? Something happened, it isn't the same.
Yeah, he stopped being so blatant about copying everyone else.

>>37321278
Who cares?

>>37384877
The OP and most people posting in this thread, clearly. Otherwise why would we go through the effort of posting about it?

>>37385566
Nobody cares about this dead series but you faggots.

>>37386513
I wish the series was dead, but it's becoming more and more popular with unfavorable types.

>>37379188
In other words he lost the doujin spirit.

>>37321295
wrong

I’ve been playing a lot of Mystic Square lately and having a lot of fun. Yuuka especially feels nice to play as, but that might just be because she’s a bit stronger than the other shots and I’m a shitter.

I also really like Makai as a setting, it’s like hell but really fucking weird. I dig how surreal the early games get with the setting.

Can this be a PC98 general thread? The early touhous have some neat stuff and a strong distinct charm.

>>37379188
Is there an exhaustive list of things that ZUN ripped off or was inspired by? I know that there's that one image comparing the PC98 games and SMT

>>37404479
Pretty sure the image you’re looking at is the closest thing to one.

>>37404479
https://www.mediafire.com/file/yxcg7mvg1lj1i6g/TouhouProjectPC-98-CompleteEnglishPatchPack100.rar/file

This pack has pics like >>37379188
in the images folder as an omake aside setup guides.

The fourth boss fight of Mystic Square is against two bosses, a white witch and a black witch. After doing enough damage one explodes, and you fight the one you did less damage to.

The wiki notes the white witch has easier patterns, but this is a bullshit lie from someone with retard opinions cause fuck do I have an easier time against the black one.

Also, is this the first example of the stage 4 boss being variable? It isnt dependent on character/shottype, but still.

>>37410193
I guess difficulty is relative, but I remembe Mai(the white one) being harder.

Unless you consider LLS stage 4 boss which completely changes the boos depending on who you play as.
Although touhou 1 technically has variable 4th bosses

>>37321286
Same

>>37409657
Thanks, this stuff is very interesting.

>>37410193
>>37410462
It's mostly a matter of preference. Yuki's attacks are faster and more vicious (she's fucking pissed, after all) but they're not a huge deal to dodge if you've got enough experience. Mai's attacks are more complex but slower, overall I find them easier but her last spell is harder than Yuki's hardest spell so unless you skip it with a bomb she's harder overall to beat with no misses.
That's from a Normal point of view, mind you.

>>37321286
We all do

>>37417408
I think I just enjoy Yuki’s reaction-dodge style of spells. I have fun fighting her while I get frustrated at Mai. Maybe once I know her ‘tricks’ Mai will seem like the easier one.

>>37404479
>>/jp/thread/S21413644

This thread lists many things, like the girl in pic related being copied from an pc98 h-game.

>>37432988
oh, you mean the occasional "ZUN IS A HACK!!!" thread?

>>37434204
ZUN got worse. Toetestsu is a ripoff of Kirby and Helltaker.

>>37373183
In addition to this, I think some of it also has to do with the later games not adding as many big new locations and starting to revisit places we've already seen before. Youkai Mountain is the last major location that's been introduced into Gensokyo proper. Most places after that have been either somewhere that's relatively small like the Palanquin Ship or Shining Needle Castle, or more frequently exist in some other realm, like Hell, the Underground, the Dream World, the Land of the Back Door, etc. Compare IN which gave us the Human Village and the Bamboo Forest of the Lost, to HSiFS which revisted existing locations for four stages before going to the Land of the Back Door. It creates this feeling that Gensokyo is "full". Like I doubt the next game will feature a huge canyon in Gensokyo that's suddenly always been there. While that in some ways helps Gensokyo feel more like a real place, it also takes away from that sense of infinite possibility and wonder. That's neither a good thing or a bad thing, it's just the natural progression of Gensokyo as a setting.

>>37443465
Yeah Gensokyo is canonically small so I dont know how much is left to explore there besides small nooks and crannies. The afterlives are basically infinite so those will always have a lot of potential. It’s probably a matter of time until we get to that rumored underground city hidden under youkai mountain.

We can get small new surprises like a hidden casino or an old mining tunnel, but Gensokyo does feel very filled out as you said.

>>37434204
Yes, but this one has some interesting stuff imo.
>>37404479
There's also this video for musical inspirations: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dw-vpHOfWiE

I like that the music menu in mystic square has zun’s commentary embedded in the game itself.

>>37450971
I think every touhou game except the first one has that.
But mystic square also has the commentaries of the songs from the first game, which is pretty neat.

>>37434215
> ripoff of Helltaker.
Or he just picked a fanmade 2hu and made her evil twin.

>>37464401
Or given how spot on some fan designs for her were, he just picked the most obvious things for her design

>>37434215
>Helltaker
Is this a meme or do people really not realise how long Tasogare held the game hostage?

>>37417408
Mai's attacks are easy if you don't shoot the big bullets that spawn more bullets when destroyed, Yuki's bullets always get me when she goes max speed, but maybe it's because my reflexes suck.

Tbh I love killing one boss and fighting the other at full power,

>>37466307
I didnt even realize her big bullets do that, now I feel dumb.

At least I recognized Alice’s mirror spell and to wait that one out instead of shoot it. Her spells and patterns in this game seem quite different from PCB, but I haven’t played MS Extra yet.

>>37387326
What?

>>37468211
Felt the same way both with Alice's mirror and then with Mai's bullets, MS is pretty tricky imo,

You can also hit Alice in the mirror attack but you'll probably just die when the dolls start moving in the next attack.

>>37475129
Not that anon, but probably something along the lines of westerners ruining it with their fanarts or something.

>>37464498
That makes more sense but I wanted to point out that white hair and horns aren't just a thing of helltaker, since some people apparently think otherwise.

>>37464545
I hope it's just a meme.

>>37475129
>>37479379
Not even the fanarts, I was just exaggerating my dislike for the new popularity for the series that's sprung up because of Twitter and fumos and such.

I really liked how the stage backgrounds looked in the PC-98 era, they look pretty mysterious and magical.
Although the lake of blood being purple and then it's lakebed red is weird.

>>37493536
Just out of curiosity, do you mean just westerners or in general?

>>37497613
Agree about the backgrounds.

Makai especially feels really abstract whenever we go there, gives me an impression of pic rel or a heironymous bosch painting or something. I can totally see someone having a different interpretation though.

Going to dark forests or places that look like space are also really cool though. A benefit of those games not really being part of ‘gensokyo’ is that they can do whatever they want with the setting without carrying the weight of canon. The pc98 games feel sort of ‘breezy’ in that regard.

>>37497854
Forgot pic

>>37497613
I meant westerners, although I'll admit that I'm unaware if there are other new groups of Touhou fans that are forming in the east that I'll also hate

>>37498498
There are young kids getting into Touhou through yukkuri explanation/commentary videos on youtube that you can get mad at if you want.

>>37498542
I'll add them to the list, thank you for letting me know.

>>37498542
Those videos always gave me Elsagate vibes. I wonder if they watch dumb shit like "Pregnant yukkuri Reimu goes to the dentist (MUST SEE EASY GOING)" videos too.

>>37321278
I want to agree with you because my favorite games are from that era but the games have been good up until at least 17.5, I haven't played unconnected marketeers but the characters genuinely look like shit so that puts me off. 17 and 18 have a very strange feel to them like they're more forced but somehow 17 ended up having mostly good girls.
The older games were still reminiscent of ZUN's innocent inspiration (stuff like izumi takemoto, sarai, rance...) so they had more soul. And the patterns became memorable classics. But the new games are still fun.

>>37506679
The idea that 18 has no soul pisses me off because its a game full of ZUN's love for doujin markets. The card system is also a lot of fun.

>>37506939
Agree with that, even if general theme of 18 had heavy inspiration with current world trends, it still menaged to be much more faithful to spirit of touhou than some other recent entries.

>>37506679
>>37506939
>>37506989
I think 18’s character designs are overall weak (I only really like Chimata’s). But the card system is really fun and addictive to mess with and I think from a gameplay standpoint it’s the most fun in a long time, so I like it overall.

Lore of the ball granny is the only part of 18’s story I really like. But to me that comes second to the gameplay.

Not Nitori and Ball Granny (and sort of Chimata) have patterns I like, overall the game’s patterns are okay, not great not bad. It’s carried pretty heavily by it’s gimmick, but it’s a really solid gimmick.

HSiFS and WBaWC were the biggest dip in quality. Bad gimmicks, bad visibility, meh cast.

>>37507615
I dun't know, i actually liked most of characters after initial 3.
Megumu is nice addition as more serious tengu that can actually show us more of their politics and motives and nicely counterweights ayas autism and hatate general NEETness.
Tsukasa while is more or less tewi 2.0 does a good job of it, and the fact that she actually manipulated all other bosses for her own unkonwn ends was really cool idea.
Misumaru feels like character that was introduced for future use, she didnt do much yet, but she has lots of potential.
Momoyo is ok, but she seem to continue curse of EX bosses
And chimata is character that is just impossible to hate in a long run

Yeah, it feels like Touhou kinda lost its soul since 10.

>>37507728
Yeah I should note I dont dislike any of the nee characters. They have okay places and they seem like they have potential to be fleshed out in cool ways.

I’m just not gripped by them. Like I like Hina and Sekibanki despite them getting nothing outside their games because something about them in those games is strong enough to really appeal to me. I didnt need to wait for supplemental material later on to really start liking them. I probably shouldnt have the bar raised to where my favorite one offs, but that’s where ny expectations are.

I think the new characters are fine. I dont share the pessimism about the new games some in this thread do. I think touhou is still a solid series overall. They just didnt *grab* me either.

I will admit to being much less familiar with the new games than the older ones and that I revisit the older ones more, but that’s mostly to do with them already being familiar to me.

I did like the new fox girl’s triple cross thing she had going with the bosses.

>>37506939
Sorry anon. I haven't played a touhou game since I got an rsi playing LoLK a while back. It didn't cause the injury but I did spend that entire day drawing and jacking off so an 8-9 hour session of dense pattern dodging after that stuff did me in. Haven't played 2hu since...

>>37523487
You've missed 3 games, you need to get back into it...

>>37507728
do you mind elaborating on the curse of EX bosses? is it because they're often underused or something else?

>>37523487
I envy you having so much Touhou to play for the first time.

>>37524727
I mean it mostly as a huge change in trends in UFO onwards which really changed ex bosses from most popular characters into just...well extras/sidedishes.

If you look at original ex bosses we can say two things that are common for almost all of them.
1. Ex bosses are rarely connected to incident itself
2. They are closely connected to central character of the game.
And just as that flan was remi sister, yukari is yuyuko best friend, mokou is kaguya arch nemesis, suwako is kanakos husband and koishi is satori sis again.
But then you look at new ex bosses and:
Nue is just underling for Byakuren, no diffrent than murasa or ichirin
Mamizou is...just here, too late for party and related to guys from previous game
Raiko is a stronger nobody tied to nobodies you defeated at stage 4 but really no relationship with culprit
Hecatia pretty much is only that denies the curse and guess what...she is really high on popularity ranking
Okina is weird case so its hard to say here.
Saki feels too much like somebody just here in Keiki vs Yachie conflict, and even being connected to other popular character doesnt help.
Momoyo is similar as saki but its too early to tell.

My point is mostly that Ex bosses moved from absolutely most recognisable characters of touhou into something you barely care.

>>37523693
No I played 15.5, 16 and 17 and I'm probably gonna play 17.5 soon because it requires less practice (forced to be casual)
>>37524794
What do you mean by this? Free time? 7 day work weeks?

>>37524939
Okina's the worst.
Game has already weak cast overall, weak main crew (just boss and two minions) and then bluebalss you with fake ending just to reuse main antagonist in the extra.
I loved Momoyo tho, it's such a good middle ground between real ending locked behind extra (Hecatia, Okina) and mere side-plot (the rest of extras).

>>37524939
Mamizou should have been playable.
It would have made her stand out more and given her a better role in the story.
Maybe actually make her go out to defeat Miko as an unlockable playablehu only to have her make a truce with the taoists.
It's better than her doing nothing

>>37532397
See i like Momoyo too, but here is the problem - what to do next with her?
Mining doesnt seem like will be relevant so all thats left is her being friends with Megumu. But even yuri path wont be easy one since she needs to compete with both Chimata and Tsukasa for ship with Megumu (and those two are more popular). There simply isnt enough material to work with.

>>37536121
Mamizou is just odd case when after underwhelming debiut she was pushed very heavily by ZUN to be everywhere (kinda similar to whats happening to Okina now) but even then lacked any memorable apperance.

>>37536345
>See i like Momoyo too, but here is the problem - what to do next with her?
Prominent story roles is out of the question since she's neither hag no fairy. But mining theme seems is a goldmine (haha) for unique mechanics. She definitely deserves a playable role in either mainline game or her own spinoff.
And as for fan content, I'd pair her with industrial mining equipment.

>>37538174
If Touhou ever does collab with spelunky or terraria i can definately see Momoyo taking a prominent role.

>>37524939
Are you really saying Nue isn't a super popular character? Wtf?
Mamizou and hecatia too

>>37555554
Nue was carried because many people lumped her with flan and koishi, she definately wasn't the one carrying anyone. And even then she is only 43rd
Mamizou got whooping 82 spot in last popularity vote after constant apperances in games and manga.
And i already said that hecatia was the only one to deny it, and be actually popular.

>>37555596
I've seen a lot of fanart for Nue and Mamizou, enough to consider them relevant reoccurring characters. But the fighting games probably helped Mamizou a lot, and the thighhigh fetishists helped Nue.

>>37555388
>Terraria collab
This can actually be very interesting

The first three games felt and and still feel like actual dreams. They fit in with the 'Eastern Wonderland' thing.

Whats happening now is that now its turning into generic fantasy no.4300. And series fatigue is starting to set in.

Newer characters are still not that popular compared to the old ones. Even the argument of the 6-10 games being older doesnt work now. Majority of the characters after 11 are disliked.

What went wrong was the pacing. Zun should have had 12 focus more on the Moriya and had 13 be the one focusing on the Myouren Gang.
14 focusing on something else

And 15 focusing on the Taoists.
The whole religion thing was too rushed, and ruined touhou.

>>37562856
And you could still have 13.5 and 14.5 because the precense of the Taoists Miko and Futo doesnt affect the story in any meaningful way.
You could have them in 15.5 and have them in its story.
Virtually nothing is changed but the overarching plot flows much better.

>>37562856
I can't believe that someone unironically would want Kanako's Rube Goldberg machine to last for another 3 games.

>>37564922
The glory of the Moriya shrine should be eternal!

>>37321278
Agree anon, Touhou used to have this 90's shoujo anime/manga air that slowly went away over time once the Windows era came along. It just doesn't feel the same without it.

>>37524939
If we follow the original formula then I propose :
>Shinki
As maybe Byakuren's master ? We know she knows spells from her. Resurrected Myouren or someone else from that tale could also be a possibility
>TD
Maybe Kasen as another hermit or just some 4th shinkaisen who reincarnated later. You could have her be Miko's rival, fan or best apprentice.
>DDC
An Oni as Issun-Boshi (who Sukuna is based) killed one in his tale. Oni are also considered to be the opposite of amanojaku. She could be maybe the Oni that attacked Issun-boshi years ago resurrected by the mallet so she would have a grudge against both the inchlings and the amanojaku
>HSIFS
Okina fits but alternatively God mode Eternity could have been a possibility
>WBAWC
Saki doesn't do much for the incident outside of extra. She seems to fit perfectly.
>UM
I honestly have no clue
Momoyo is an underling so I guess you could add in another tengu or fox if you want a closer relation.