/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Deen just isn't that good of a studio. It should have been handed to someone like Production I.G. or Madhouse.

>Why did Deen fail so hard?

That's like asking why the grass is green or the Aoko is blue. Some things just are.

>Umineko
>most interesting, well crafted murder mysteries of our generation

>one of the most interesting, well crafted murder mysteries of our generation.
You don't have to exaggerate so much. It's good for a vn. That's it.

>>3652628

Who decides it anyway? Did Ryukishi07 go to Deen personally, or does he sell the anime rights to a company like Sony and they decide?

>>3652633

Deen made Higurashi popular, screwing it up or not.
I guess Umineko just fits right in the VN/SN format, if they'd slow it down too much for the anime, ADD anime watchers would just ditch it after 3/4 episodes.

>>3652643
Ryukishi07 probably has a crush on Chiaki Kon.

>>3652652
What? The doujin games sold 100,000+ copies. That sounds pretty popular to me.

>The Umineko Sound Novel is one of the most interesting, well crafted murder mysteries of our generation.

no-words.jpg

>>3652632

I'm not an avid reader of mystery novels, but I haven't seen anything like Umineko before. No reason to act as if it's lower just because it's a visual/sound novel rather that a book.

>>3652632

I'm not an avid reader of mystery novels, but I haven't seen anything like Umineko before. It's definitely a unique take on mystery. No reason to act as if it's lower just because it's a visual/sound novel rather that a book.

ITT overrated shit.

>>3652673
The writing is terrible. Even giving it the benefit of a doubt that it's simply a bad hack translation job by Witch-Hunt, it's still bad.

But it's compelling enough that the writing can be terrible and still work, for the most part.

>>3652652
I have ADHD and I got through the first episode of the sound novel just fine.

>>3652683
The writing is better than mine which is all that really matters to me.

>>3652683

What is so terrible about the writing, specifically?

>>3652683
>>White Ren
>>Complaining about Ryu07 writting.

Didn't knew Type-Moonist were going to start something. Sigh.

>The Umineko Sound Novel is one of the most interesting, well crafted murder mysteries of our generation.

This picture makes me want to choke Bern

It's DEEN, what did you expected?

Is it time again to pretend like we didn't know an anime adaptation of a visual novel wouldn't live up to anyone's expectations?

>>3652673
Umineko isn't a mystery though. r07 said so himself.

>>3652733
I am immune to criticism, as I think Nasu is pretty bad at writing, too, in regards to most dialogue scenes and story flow.

>>3652763
This.
Just like how Higurashi is about friends, Umineko is about LOVE.
I am actually not too pleased when he went this route. Lets hope he execute it well and not make it overly cliche.

>>3652763

Then what the hell is it?

Honestly, it doesn't matter what he says. Genre isn't up for him to decide.

>>3652794

>implying love and friends are genres

>>3652814

He's not being very serious. >>3652763 is referencing the "about" letter Ryu wrote with Umineko, which had much cackling and declaration that it's a wonderful fantasy, and that all attempts to view it as mystery are folly cackle cackle etc.

Both Nasu and Ryukishi07 need to hire an editor, or a better one at least.

And Umineko doesn't feel like a mystery to me. I doubt it can really be solved at all, since Ryukishi will probably just pull out something in the last episode that no one could have foreseen.

>>3652825
Ryukishi said the mystery could be solved from like, episode 3 or something.

>>3652832

The official declaration was with EP4, as "absolutely all the necessary facts" are given to you in the Question arcs.

>>3652814
Theme != Genre.

I believe Umineko is decently written. You guys are too hard on it.

It doesn't need to be as well written as a great novel to be a great SN. It isn't even written like a novel. Umineko is a picture book with music, and it has nice pictures and great music.

>>3652870
>Umineko
>it has nice pictures

Umineko is a good story but as a mystery it sucks.

>>3652663
when was that? Before or after the animation?

>>3652692
SN readers have more tolerance than anime watchers because you can resume from where you stopped anytime.

>calling Nasu writing bad because of Mirrormoon patch

Oh you.

>>3652881
The characters are done pretty well, in that they aren't cookie-cutter generic designs, and each sprite is full of character.

>>3652959
You should give MM some credit - they managed to edit his heebus jeebus nonsense to something that actually flows.

>>3652794
>Umineko is about LOVE
"Humans have continually searched for the elements that make up the world since before the modern era. It is said that in the ancient times, Greeks tried explaining the world with the four elements of wind, fire, water, and earth.
And after that, over several millennia, humans added several elements to those four,
trying to explain the world with several interpretations such as the five elements, the six elements, the seven elements, the eight elements, and the twelve elements,
but they couldn't explain the one true 'single element'.

.........However, a single man appeared, guided by a star, and finally explained the single element that makes up the world.
Know what it is......?"

"......That is 'love'."

>>3652959
>SN readers have more tolerance than anime watchers because you can resume from where you stopped anytime.
Wow.
So I guess this "Pause" button I sometimes use while watching anime is pretty new-gen, eh?

>>3652959
No, he's just bad at some stuff. It's not the translation... well, not all of it.

Who here can read Japanese well enough to even know what good Japanese writing is?

I'm sure that it can't be right to judge Japanese literature on the standards of Western literature. They're completely different.

Not saying that Nasu or Ryukishi are good or bad writers, just pointing that out.

>>3653049
>I'm sure that it can't be right to judge Japanese literature on the standards of Western literature. They're completely different.
Justify this seemingly ridiculous claim, please.

>>3653049
We're at the mercy of translations. Even those who can read Japanese don't have the fluency or understanding of native speakers so the writing is still simplified by what they understand while reading.

>>3653049
English people living in an english nation reading things translated from japanese into english aren't allowed to judge by english standards, more at eleven.

>>3653049
Many aspects of writing carry over in a translation. For example the bad pacing in Umineko is not the translation's fault.

>>3653049

>BAW, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND GLORIOUS JAPAN

Okay there, big boy, no need to shed tears over it. Do you want some Pocky?

>>3653013
No, but you gotta wait for a whole week to resume after one anime episode ends.

>>3653066
You can't expect the same thing than when you're reading a novel written by a native english speaker. Translation will always make the original writing lose some of its meaning while gaining a bit of a new meaning coming from the translation itself.
Bad translations make the original work crappy. Good translations make it acclaimed. Google for Paulo Coelho.

>>3653066
>eleven
LOL

>>3653100
codegeass joke, so funneh xD

>I'm sure that it can't be right to judge Japanese literature on the standards of Western literature. They're completely different.

Yes, because in our world, it's perfectly acceptable to say "Everything is good in its own way, and if you don't like something, you just don't understand it."

This is what you tell retarded kids that suck on their own toes when you look away for a second. Sadly for you, nobody that takes themselves seriously is going to believe that bullshit.

So, what about Haiku?

It's a poetic art, it's a recognized fact.
Yet, it hardly makes sense outside japanese.

And this is not even being a weeaboo.

>>3653097
There's only so much a translation can do, though. I highly doubt Tsukihime having an entire route devoted to lying in a bed is a choice of the translators.

>>3653127
While i do think that Nasu got problems with overall pacing, his way of mix up the words strangely and give you a headache while reading is unique.

>>3653126
That form of poetry is so tied up with the flow of the language, it makes sense that it doesn't translate at all. Prose is another thing.

>>3653134
I never said Nasu was a bad writer. I loved Tsukihime. I was just pointing something out.

>>3653126
You could say the same thing about Japanese "humor," but you'd be wrong.

It's just shit.

Also, the automatic assumption is that anything American/Western is bad, everything else is just misunderstood and awesome, and we're totally all uncultured faggots for not going apeshit over it.

>>3653151
Kay, now you're just full of shit.

>>3653151
Not really. Early Simpsons seasons were god-tier.

>>3653151

You're a fucking idiot. This is why nobody likes America. They think anyway different from there's is wrong.

>>3653175
There is? You're looking for "Theirs"

>>3653141

That doesn't change the fact that there's many nuances within a language that can't be translated easily to another. The languages and culture are built completely differently and what they consider "good" might not be what another culture does.

Like consider that English-style sarcasm doesn't work with the Japanese.

>>3653195
Uhh... Yes it does?

>>3653198
No, it doesn't.

>>3653198
Nope, at all.

Therefore, american humor is shit? Nope.

>>3653195
Any translation is going to be lacking in some way; something's always lost in the transfer. But you can't chalk that up entirely to the nuances of the different languages. It's a fact that some of Nasu's and Ryukishi's writing drags like hell, as much as I like both of them.

give it to Shaft. im sure that will make it interesting.

>Why did Deen fail so hard?

I'm sure someone else in this thread said it but:

The source material largely does not lend itself to an anime format. Yes, cool action scenes here and there, but the vast majority of Umineko is exposition and dialogue, only so much of which can fit into the average anime episode and series.

DEEN is basically trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They tried their best and to a degree it shows but they were really never going to be able to make a show that lived up to the VN. Sometimes the movie just isn't as good as the book, it's a common phenomenon.

>>3653049
I'm told Japanese is at its best when used in poetry

>>3653166
>>3653175
I didn't say anything about other cultures, just that the automatic assumptions like those are paraded around by "AMERICA SUCKS" fags like yourselves. If someone tries to even so much as judge foreign works in any way, you faggots just start screaming "AMERICAN CULTURE IS SHIT, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S JUST TOO UNIQUE BAAAWWW".

Listen up: people from other countries, even if they say "we don't judge things," judge things by their own cultural perspectives all the time. They just might not do it as openly or as obnoxiously as Americans are prone to do.

But in their own homes, in their own ways, they're trashing the shit out of anything they don't think is good if the subject comes up.

Criticism is truly a world-wide past time.

Erika: Best character or bestest character?

>>3653250
The thing is, DEEN's incompetence extends to the more action-heavy scenes, too. Rosa Musou and Beatrice vs Virgilia were terrible in the anime, complete disappointments to VN readers. Shouldn't that kind of thing be able to take advantage of the medium?

>>3653259

Nobody in here said anything about America sucking until you did. The only thing being said is that you should take culture into account before you pass something off as shit. It doesn't matter if you're American, Japanese or whatever.

>>3653278
I don't know, seeing this gif made me want to pick it up again. But I never got around to it and apparently I didn't really miss anything.

>>3653278
I did not really watch much of the show past the fourth episode because I saw where it was going when the deaths were just tacked onto the ends of the episode like the writers went "oh man we gotta include the deaths after all this talking and Battler making hoo-larious boob jokes!"

I did watch Rosa Musou though and was sorely disappointed with how it was deformed from Rosa's shining moment in the series (aside from beating the shit out of Maria every time she opens her mouth) into a 20 second generic action scene. I guess I shouldn't have said they "tried their best".

>>3653299

Episode 18 was actually decent.

I think the biggest disappointment for me was how they fucked up the soundtrack. Like how they used goldenslaughterer for the EP1 first twilight bit, but it was really soft and came in at the wrong time.

>>3653250
>I'm told Japanese is at its best when used in poetry
Any language is at it's best when used in poetry.