/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Megumu doesn't look all that grand to me. In fact, I bet she is easy to bully.

title of stage 4 named "Mine of Izanagi Object"

pls try to find cute pics of newhus

>>34582512
Hm… so there is industry in Gensokyo. I wonder if there are any other mines or maybe even some type factory.

>>34582442
I guess ZUN had just read about NFTs when he drafted the plot.

>>34583231
Not this time, this mine is for sacred itens raw materials, few of them use the mine, the railway must be new for the centipede 2hu to use.

>>34583152
This seems a better representation of what Tenkyuu's design could've been: a more subdued color palette mixed together gradually, as opposed to it being piece by piece.
A lot easier on the eyes at least.

>race: god
fucking boring

>>34586817
Sex

jade girl

The whole establishing a card system and Chimata's whole 'you (Megumu) thought you were profiting off me, but I was profiting off you!' is definitely supposed to mirror ZUN allowing Touhou to be used for soshage.

>>34587787
5head girl

>>34587787
Why does she make me think of a Dragonball villain?

>>34589357
6head

>>34589357
That's appropriate considering she makes magatama out of dragonballs.

>>34582442
>Race: God
OK but what god is she

>>34589357
They literally use "dragon balls/gems" to create the cards, and she uses them to produce sacred items, like the Reimu's Ying-Yang orbs. She's all for balls.

Now I see why her forehead is so big kek

>>34590480
my god

>>34583231
of course there's industry, what do you think the kappa do?

>>34590655
Finger anuses?

ZUN's greetings to players (text attached to games)

At first, ZUN complains about jap govt's inability to deal w/ the covid pandemic, which forces him to stay at home always. As a result, he cannot really take a rest or reward himself during the game development, making it a real "hell-like" process.

Then he talks about the game system. In the first place he thought item (card) system might be incompatible with shooting games, but he found that it turns out to be a "best match": when you keep replaying to get items, you are at the same time mastering game skills.
But a big problem here is that: the number of items has made it really hard to debug all errors on his own. So if you find any weird, unbalanced or cheat-like stuffs, ZUN wish you could just laugh them off. He has done all he can do.

I think this clearly shows that: during this harsh time, ZUN is still trying his best to break w/ tradition by adding new system, thereby limiting the time he could spent on other parts like design & music.


>あとがき

>どうも、ＺＵＮです。
>あー、ようやく終わるー。世の中はコロナ禍で大変な事になっていて、政府は声高にステイホームを訴え、後は個々人の責任に転嫁している様な気がします。
>はてさて、僕はと言うとこのゲームの開発が忙しすぎて、強制的にステイホームしてました。今年に入ってからまともに休んだり、遊んだり出来なかったので、やりたいゲームが溜まってしかたがありません。
>マスターアップしたら温泉に行くんだー！打ち上げで大騒ぎするぞー！までコロナ禍で自粛を求められている昨今。何をモチベーションに修羅場を切り抜ければ良いんでしょう。
>ご褒美までおあずけで、ゲーム開発はますますストイックになっています。まさに地獄！

>今回のゲーム、自分の腕だけが重要なシューティングに、把握しきれないくらいのアイテムという、少し相性の悪そうな内容を入れてみました。
>するとどうでしょう。アイテムが徐々に増えていくのが楽しくて繰り返し遊んでいる内に、プレイヤーの技術レベルが上がっていくという、案外、ベストマッチなシステムだと言うことが判りました。まあぱっと遊べるようなアーケード向けでは無いですが、悪くないと思います。

>ただ、最大の問題が。この量のカードがあると一人ではデバッグもバランス調整も難しいという……。全部のカードの組み合わせなんてとてもじゃないけど時間的に試すことすら難しいんです。
>なのでいくつかおかしなところやぶっ壊れ性能なところもあると思いますが、ゲームなんてそんなもんだ、と思って笑ってください。特に全てのカードを使ってリプレイ再生なんて現実問題として試しきれません……。

>この辺、個人開発の限界を感じるところですねぇ……。多少変な所があっても大目に見て頂きたいですm(__)m
>ＺＵＮ（このゲームを作り終えても、家に篭もってゲームするんだ……）

>>34591358
I don't blame him in all honesty. It's tough to make a game on your own, even when you have 2 year limit to do so.
>ZUN is still trying his best to break w/ tradition by adding new system, thereby limiting the time he could spent on other parts like design & music.
Yeah, it felt that way. It's a change from the previous games, that's for sure. I wonder what 19 will hold if things get as close to normal as they were before.

>>34588035
>The whole establishing a card system
To me it's just weird that the concept of spell cards being physical cards has been abandoned so hard that it could be reintroduced as a gimmick.

>>34591358
i can respect that.
ive always thought the rouge-lite item system has been over-balanced in a lot of games. Theres fun in creating your own challenges, getting zany on purpose, or just having a "won run" from the start.
Dont worry Zun, ill do my best to break your game.
running Saki's card with Sanae seems to be a great starting card. I dont have all the cards yet but anything cool you guys find?

>>34591358
Characters and musics might not be the best in the series (even though I really like some of them) however I enjoyed playing the game a lot thanks to the cards system and great bullet patterns (as always). So in terms of gameplay it's definitely a success I think.

>>34596381
>the concept of spell cards being physical cards has been abandoned
What?

>>34597265
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Touhou_Spell_Cards_FAQ
>It's just a name, though; it's meant to give an impression of the magic spells, curses and so on that the characters are using. By now, that sort of thing has just become a simple formality. Like, "oh, I used to have some worldbuilding like that in mind, didn't I?"

Damn, I really wanna slap that forehead

So something I don't quite get, how exactly do you lose ownership by making transaction through the market? Wouldn't that just be transferring it?
Also I assume Reimu and co cheat the system by directly purchasing the cards off the bosses?

>>34600951
The idea is that if someone gives someting to you then that person was the true, original owner and you'll remember that fact. If you don't need that object anymore you may want to give it back.

Even if you find an object in the middle of a forest, then it was abandonned or lost by *someone* and so technically that person's still the owner. In some cases you may even want to look for that person.

But when you buy lets say a CD from a store then you don't really think that that CD was previously owned by the store or by the person or company who made it. It now completely belongs to you.

Quite a weird concept but the general idea is that selling through a market erases the concept of ownership, as objects can have a defined owner after a transaction without a remaining connection to a previous owner.

As for buying cards, you just need to murder some fairies and loot their corpses to gain enough of the special currency created by Blue Aya and then exchange that with someone, preferably after beating them up too. Typical way of solving problems in Gensokyo.

>>34582442
>Evil white fox whispering in ears
i'm ready for the porn

>>34600951
Chimata isn't based on any existing god, but is the divine personification of the long-forgotten medieval Japanese custom of holding markets when there's a rainbow.
The idea is that people are all strongly bound to their possessions, and during normal circumstances these bonds cannot be broken (the exchange of things cannot usually take place). To unbind yourself from your things, you need to give back to the Gods, which is where all things originally came from. Chimata's dialogue has her say 'return it all to nothing' and above 'nothing' is 'God' which is expressing how to lose possession of something is to give back to the Gods.
It was believed that beneath rainbows is the boundary between the human world and the world of Gods, so holding a market during a rainbow would please the Gods because they (temporarily) receive everything being sold. Plus, you can sell all you want without your bonds to your possessions preventing you.
Problem is, obviously there's absolutely nothing stopping you selling and trading whenever you want, which is exactly why Chimata has been forgotten and ended up in Gensoukyou.
Chimata and Megumu and just using each other for their own gain. Megumu couldn't make the cards without Chimata's ability to separate possessions (abilities) from their owners, and Chimata wanted to use the card system to regain her power/influence.
What gives Chimata her power is people following the rules she established at the initial market (attended by her, Megumu, Momoyo, and Tsukasa). These include no stealing, no discarding, no picking up any abandoned cards, and only buying one card each time. These are the rules which the protagonists follow through the game. It doesn't matter how arbitrary the rule, as long as it's followed, it's generating faith (like the real ancient custom of holding markets during rainbows).

Misumaru seems like she could have a shitload of lore, creating the yinyang ball is pretty huge. I don’t know if there’s much we can gleam about her from the game though. Besides also making magatama and investigating why people are taking her crafting resources, what do we know about her?

>>34608742
So the bug abuse in the demo was essentially the players bullying Chimata out of her faith? Neato.
>>34610404
What's more interesting is the implications of the Yin-Yang Orb's true abilities relating to Magatama.
It does support my headcanon of the Hakurei Bloodline actually boiling down to being "One for All" to put it bluntly.

>>34610404
She's still pretty mysterious. She seems to know something about Izanagi objects that we don't. Her primary motivation in the game is to not let ryuuju fall into the wrong hands because supposedly they're dangerous, but the way they're used in the game is harmless. At the end of Sakuya's extra she emphasises that Izanagi objects are dangerous and says not to dig them up.
We don't even know where she lives. Her secondary motivation is to prevent the environmental damage to youkai mountain, so she might live somewhere deep beneath it, but we can't say for sure.
Her omake mentions that she's seen lots of mountains mined to destruction for the sake of greed until their resources run dry, and are abandoned, which makes her sound like she's from outside of Gensoukyou.

Tho rainbowhu’s fashion taste is worse than heca’s, she does have many stories behind her
But these jap lores all fucking fused together like shit; I’m not really sure if all stuffs are correct

>Dōsojin (道祖神, road ancestor kami):
As tutelary deities of borders and paths, Dōsojins are believed to protect travellers, pilgrims, villages, and individuals in "transitional stages" from epidemics and evil spirits.

>Kunado/Funato-no-Kami (岐の神, god of crossroads):
Kunado/Funato-no-Kami are Japanese local gods protecting the boundaries of a village, and refraining malicious or harmful spirits and influences from entering, thereby preventing disasters. According to the Kojiki, Kunado-no-kami was born when god Izanagi-no-Mikoto threw away his trousers (褌, fundoshi) to wash himself after returning from Yomi, the land of the dead. The Nihon Shoki and Kogoshūi tell the same myth, but call the kami Sarutahiko, and claimed that Kunado-no-Kami was born from a stick he threw at a demoness.
The term "Kunado-no-Kami" and its variants are derived ultimately from Japanese: 来な処 ku-na-do, meaning a place that is not to be entered, a taboo or sacred space. In some cases, the protection of these kami extends to roads and paths, in which capacity the variant name Chimata-no-Kami (巷の神, god of alleys) is likely to be applied. Kunado-no-Kami is considered to be one of the prototypes of Dosojin.

>(Mi-)Chimata-no-Kami (道俣神, god of divided roads):
When Izanagi-no-Mikoto came back from Yomi, the land of the dead, and took off his clothes to do Misogi (禊), the god born from his hakama (袴) is Chimata-no-Kami. Chimata means that roads are divided, and it also refers to the crossroads in life.
In ancient times, anything that brought in dirt from outside the village is an abomination. If dirt (illness) is brought into a village, all villagers may be wiped out. Therefore, it was necessary for travelers to clean up the dirt on them before entering villages to do business. And where would dirt cling to? Clothes (hakama) can be an answer. That is probably why hakama and misogi were combined to create the Chimata-no-Kami.

>Sai/Sae-no-Kami (塞の神, god of fortress):
In modern times, Dōsojin have become fused in popular belief with different deities having similar characteristics like Kunado-no-Kami & Sae-no-Kami. When god Izanagi-no-Mikoto sought to leave after going to the land of the dead (Yomi no Kuni) to visit his spouse Izanami-no-Mikoto, he was chased by the demoness Yomotsushikome (黄泉醜女, lit. Yomi ugly woman). To stop her, he threw her a stick from which Sae-no-Kami was born. For this reason, he is the kami who prevents the passage of the spirits of the dead into the world of the living, and therefore a god who is a protector of boundaries.
[I feel like the foregoing 3 gods are all mixed in those old jap book; maybe you can take them as the same god]

And plus the rainbow part in >>34608742, you can now form a chain from Izanagi to rainbowhu
In short, Chimata is a blend of many jap lores
>summarized from jp sources
>jp wiki of 岐の神, 道祖神, イザナギ, 神産み, 道俣神 & https://nihonsinwa.com/

Tho rainbowhu’s fashion taste is worse than heca’s, she does have many stories behind her
But these jap lores all fucking fused together like shit; I’m not really sure if all stuffs are correct

>Dōsojin (道祖神, road ancestor kami):
As tutelary deities of borders and paths, Dōsojins are believed to protect travellers, pilgrims, villages, and individuals in "transitional stages" from epidemics and evil spirits.

>Kunado/Funato-no-Kami (岐の神, god of crossroads):
Kunado/Funato-no-Kami are Japanese local gods protecting the boundaries of a village, and refraining malicious or harmful spirits and influences from entering, thereby preventing disasters. According to the Kojiki, Kunado-no-kami was born when god Izanagi-no-Mikoto threw away his trousers (褌, fundoshi) to wash himself after returning from Yomi, the land of the dead. The Nihon Shoki and Kogoshūi tell the same myth, but call the kami Sarutahiko, and claimed that Kunado-no-Kami was born from a stick he threw at a demoness.
The term "Kunado-no-Kami" and its variants are derived ultimately from Japanese: 来な処 ku-na-do, meaning a place that is not to be entered, a taboo or sacred space. In some cases, the protection of these kami extends to roads and paths, in which capacity the variant name Chimata-no-Kami (巷の神, god of alleys) is likely to be applied. Kunado-no-Kami is considered to be one of the prototypes of Dosojin.

>(Mi-)Chimata-no-Kami (道俣神, god of divided roads):
When Izanagi-no-Mikoto came back from Yomi, the land of the dead, and took off his clothes to do Misogi (禊), the god born from his hakama (袴) is Chimata-no-Kami. Chimata means that roads are divided, and it also refers to the crossroads in life.
In ancient times, anything that brought in dirt from outside the village is an abomination. If dirt (illness) is brought into a village, all villagers may be wiped out. Therefore, it was necessary for travelers to clean up the dirt on them before entering villages to do business. And where would dirt cling to? Clothes (hakama) can be an answer. That is probably why hakama and misogi were combined to create the Chimata-no-Kami.

>Sai/Sae-no-Kami (塞の神, god of fortress):
In modern times, Dōsojin have become fused in popular belief with different deities having similar characteristics like Kunado-no-Kami & Sae-no-Kami. When god Izanagi-no-Mikoto sought to leave after going to the land of the dead (Yomi no Kuni) to visit his spouse Izanami-no-Mikoto, he was chased by the demoness Yomotsushikome (黄泉醜女, lit. Yomi ugly woman). To stop her, he threw her a stick from which Sae-no-Kami was born. For this reason, he is the kami who prevents the passage of the spirits of the dead into the world of the living, and therefore a god who is a protector of boundaries.
[I feel like the foregoing 3 gods are all mixed in those old jap book; maybe you can take them as the same god]

And plus the rainbow part in >>34608742, you can now form a chain from Izanagi to rainbowhu
In short, Chimata is a blend of many jap lores
>summarized from jp sources
>jp wiki of 岐の神, 道祖神, イザナギ, 神産み, 道俣神 & https://nihonsinwa.com/

And people said Chimata was ugly and uninspired, holy shit.

>>34608742
>>34610924
>>34611095
Man I fucking love these deep 2hu lore of the unironic kind.

>>34611511
Just saying, her dress is still a bunch of colorful fabric zipped together, so ugly is a matter of taste.

I'm pretty sure the Chimata's dress's zips are meant to represent her nature as a God who lives on the boundary, and express how the rainbow acts as such a boundary. ZUN's music room comment expands on this:
'A rainbow is a place where Otherworlds intersect with ours. Those very places where different things cross paths are her territory. Her theme likewise became one where two sections intersect'.

>>34591358
I’ve always wondered if ZUN was interested in turn-based RPGs.
I think the spell card system could work for that.

>>34611095
>In short, Chimata is a blend of many jap lores
Appropriate for a character whose attire is different fabrics zippered together.

>>34613362
Interesting that rainbows are symbolic of boundaries of other worlds in jap lore.

My initial take on the light spectrum symbolism was that it tied into the market god status in the sense that, like light is a necessary basis for a lot of things to exist in physics (from what I understand), or how it’s necessary for anything to be seen at all, Chimata provides the market space that is a necessary basis for trade. It’s both the foundation and the medium, and so is she.

So is Chimata a border-manipulation tier character? And if so, how much did she con her way into that position?

>>34613905
Pretty sure ZUN is a SMTfag

>>34610924
>she emphasises that Izanagi objects are dangerous and says not to dig them up.
Someone go to the future and warn Maribel

>>34613920
Chimata can't manipulate anything. As soon as this incident ends she goes back to being weak.
I'm sure she's particularly weak at the moment because comiket etc has been cancelled.

>>34613920
>Interesting that rainbows are symbolic of boundaries of other worlds in jap lore.
This wouldn't be the first time the idea is brought up. Rinnosuke talked about it in CoLA, though it was specifically about the color violet, its place as the rainbow's own boundary and its relation to the name "Yakumo".

this game is fun as fuck I'm having a blast

>>34613933
>ZUN is an SMTfag
Based. I hope V is good

>>34613920
>Interesting that rainbows are symbolic of boundaries of other worlds in jap lore.

Errr, a others cultures have that same notion too, i.e. nordic myths always depicts rainbows as a crossroad for the gods realm

>>34610924
according to the Hifuu Club Series, Izanagi is the god who used Izanagi Objects to create Japan
besides, in Hifuu stories, Maribel found some ancient but artificial objects, namely Izanagi Objects, which she described as "in a shape hard to tell it's a fishhook or a key"
now TH18 seems to reveal that what she found is in fact magatamas

glad that Touhou universe is expanding, and now connected w/ the Hifuu Club Series
and digging into Hifuu stories may help reveal more details
>伊弉諾物質 (Izanagi Objects) ～ Neo-Traditionalism of Japan
>https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Neo-traditionalism_of_Japan/Story

>>34615838
>fishhook or key shape
Keiki was revealed first with these details in her outfit, and has some connection with Izanami
All of this shit is connecting but I have no idea what ZUN would lead up to with it, real deep lore hours

>>34615838
I wonder why Renko didn't recognise it as a magatama.

>>34615838
All this Izanagi object stuff is making me crave more hifuu. It's about time for a new album or two.

>>34615886
Keiki, or at least the goddess that ZUN used as a basis for Keiki's creation, was born from Izanami's feces.

>>34616060
Probably corroded enough to the point of being barely recognizable.

>>34615838
>now TH18 seems to reveal that what she found is in fact magatamas
Woah, I had completely forgotten about that. Cool, there’s really a sense of cohesion being developed here, but I can’t guess what it’s actually building to, if anything.

>>34615355
Don’t forget the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That fits the theme of this game very well. I’m just a little bit let down that we didn’t get a leprechaun girl.

>>34611095
>[I feel like the foregoing 3 gods are all mixed in those old jap book; maybe you can take them as the same god]
yes, you can find some evidences from Aya's spellcard names

Aya is a tengu, and the prototype of tengu is Sarutahiko (猿田彦, サルタヒコ)
Sarutahiko's intro: The god who lighted up the heaven and the earth from Yachimata (crossroads in the heaven), when the Divine Grandson descended to earth
>日本神話で、《天孫の降臨》の際、《天の八衢》（やちまた）にいて《天上天下》を照らしていた神。

and in MoF, 4 of Aya's spellcards are:
《岐》符「《天の八衢》」(Crossroad Sign "Crossroads of Heaven")
《岐》符「《サルタ》クロス」(Crossroad Sign "Saruta Cross")
《塞》符「《天孫降臨》」(Blockade Sign "Advent of the Divine Grandson")
《塞》符「《天上天下》の照國」(Blockade Sign "Terukuni Shining Through Heaven and Earth")

here in spellcard names, Sarutahiko is mixed w/ the god of crossroads (岐の神) & god of blockade (塞の神), which kinda implies these 3 gods are actually the same one
and be reminded that MoF was released 14 years ago in 2007

if this means that Chimata is not only the god of market, but also signifies Sarutahiko, we can somehow explain why Megumu doesn't want Chimata to regain her power
caus a reviving new leader, not to mention a real ancestor, will definitely pose challenges to tengus' hierarchical society under Tenma's rule

>>34611095
>[I feel like the foregoing 3 gods are all mixed in those old jap book; maybe you can take them as the same god]
yes, you can find some evidences from Aya's spellcard names

Aya is a tengu, and the prototype of tengu is Sarutahiko (猿田彦, サルタヒコ)
Sarutahiko's intro: The god who lighted up the heaven and the earth from Yachimata (crossroads in the heaven), when the Divine Grandson descended to earth
>日本神話で、《天孫の降臨》の際、《天の八衢》（やちまた）にいて《天上天下》を照らしていた神。

and in MoF, 4 of Aya's spellcards are:
《岐》符「《天の八衢》」(Crossroad Sign "Crossroads of Heaven")
《岐》符「《サルタ》クロス」(Crossroad Sign "Saruta Cross")
《塞》符「《天孫降臨》」(Blockade Sign "Advent of the Divine Grandson")
《塞》符「《天上天下》の照國」(Blockade Sign "Terukuni Shining Through Heaven and Earth")

here in spellcard names, Sarutahiko is mixed w/ Chimata's origins, the god of crossroads (岐の神) & god of blockade (塞の神), which kinda implies these 3 gods are actually the same one
and be reminded that MoF was released 14 years ago in 2007

if this means that Chimata is not only the god of market, but also signifies Sarutahiko, we can somehow explain why Megumu doesn't want Chimata to regain her power
caus a reviving new leader, not to mention a real ancestor, will definitely pose challenges to tengus' hierarchical society under Tenma's rule

The food in the new tengu's card is apparently barley rice, which means we truly are the Amakasu Barley Tengu

>>34616633
Jesus, the Chimata lore just doesn’t stop.

>>34613905
>I think the spell card system could work for that.
I don't know if I can handle a start stop game. The break inbetween cards is nice, but I don't think I'd like it all that much.

Lily Black confirmed again in Touhou 18

>>34616470
>I’m just a little bit let down that we didn’t get a leprechaun girl.

ZUN seems rather uninterested in adding any non-Japanese characters/creatures anymore. EoSD had vampires and a chinese youkai, but now the characters are almost exclusively pulled from japanese myth. Even the Taoists are Japanese themselves, they just follow a Chinese religion.

>>34616633
It is said that Chimata's gesture comes from the Buddha
the phrase 天上天下 can be found in the story of Sarutahiko, Chimata's alleged origin, as well as one of the Buddha's sayings

Sarutahiko's intro: The god who lighted up the heaven and the earth from Yachimata
>天の八衢にいて《天上天下》を照らしていた神。
Buddha's saying: I alone am the honored one in the heavens and on earth.
>《天上天下》唯我独尊

this again implies that Chimata is related to Sarutahiko, plus a little bit Buddism also

>>34616633
Because you mention the 天孫降臨, fun fact: the God that Misumaru is likely based on, Tama-no-oya-no-mikoto is most famous for making the yasakani-no-magatama as part of the festivities/plan devised by Omoikane-no-kami (Eirin) to get Amaterasu out of the Ama-no-Iwato. Tama-no-oya-no-mikoto is (depending on the source) the son of Ninigi (the divine grandson) and was one of five Gods to accompany him during the descent. Ninigi was ordered to take the three sacred treasures down to earth on his descent, and the magatama is one of these.
Also all the way back in IN, Keine used spell cards based on the three sacred treasures, so she now has a weird connection to Misumaru.

>>34608742
This is really cool, integrating real folklore while building on tons of established lore. I love it.

>>34613933
He definitely is.

>>34622863
>and I did prepare some materials with that
Goddammit ZUN
Show us the naked Satonos made in your artstyle

So, anyone has ripped the song?

>>34582442
good thread

Mike the Cat

>>34621278
What are Clownpiece and Hecatia

>>34621682
So her pose isn't actually a dollar sign like people said (which is stupid). I just realized she is actually pointing both heaven and earth as she is the god that dwell on the crossroad between two worlds.
Looooooooore!

>>34623643
yes.
https://files.catbox.moe/o12jrt.mp3

if you want it to loop
https://files.catbox.moe/74j954.mp3

>>34608742
>>34611095
Thanks for doing all this research. It's pretty interesting.

>>34626077
You act like it can't be both things.
Ever seen Clownpiece? You know how many things she's referencing at once?

>>34626077
>she is the god that dwell on the crossroad between two worlds
Which plays even more into her rainbow looks, appropriately enough.
Also funny enough, she's basically desecrating her own origin with the whole card marketing scheme. A rainbow is said to be a trail left behind as a dragon flies through the sky, yet her company is stripping the Rainbow Dragon Cave bare, all for the sake of empowering herself.

i don't know if anyone pointed this out, but right before the "climax" of chimata's theme i hear a lot of easygoing egoist. if i'm not just hearing shit then a poverty god / market god nod is really cool
this part: https://youtu.be/Pvn40uBirI4?t=101

>>34621682
I don't think that gives her a connection to Sarutahiko seeing as 天上天下 in the context of Sarutahiko has nothing to do with Buddha. Her pose being the same as Buddha's is interesting though, although I can't think of a reason for it. The buddhism-related characters this time round are Megumu and Tsukasa.

>>34627060
I had a weird moment when I was listening to it where I was thrown back to ~IN.
There's a bit to her theme that you can pick up on.

>>34628621
>The buddhism-related characters this time round are Megumu and Tsukasa
Elaborate.

>>34628621
I'm pretty sure this anon >>34626077 is right about the pose. Buddha did the same pose to symbolise the heaven and earth, but for a different reason. Taking inspiration from the 天上天下唯我独尊 pose isn't necessarily reserved for Buddhist-related characters.

I thought ZUN was going to retire but he seems to be ramping up, bar not doing so good? kids needing tuition money? what gives?

Also how many times is he going to snub Mima?

>>34622863
There's also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UAoXIFen1g

Sound familiar?

>>34629623
>I thought ZUN was going to retire
lmao why would you think that
>Also how many times is he going to snub Mima?
It wasn't his fault THIS time, at least.

>>34629623
What a bizarre post

I'm not sure what on earth gave you any kind of idea like that when he keeps making manga, has a touhou magazine, started a touhou website, started putting his games on steam, is making spin offs and is still making mainline games. What part of that indicates slowing down (this has been the case for years)

>>34629623
>Also how many times is he going to snub Mima?
Let it go, anon. Like ZUN has.

>>34629623
enough times for the "wheres mima" joke to get old

>>34627060
Stage 3 theme sort of sounds like a remixed Border of Life. If you listen to them back to back it’s actually pretty noticeable, although the emotion is totally different.

I dont know if that means anything or if ZUN just made a similar song, though. I can’t think of any connection that would make sense.

I mean there’s the ‘border’ thing but that’s Chimata’s thing, not the gambler girl’s.

>>34629987
I wanna cum inside Mima's ghostly womb

>>34630128
your sperm is just going to fall to the floor, unless you have ghostly sperm

>>34629283
Megumu and Tsukasa are the two characters in the game most directly based on real life lore.
Iizunamaru Megumu is based on Iizuna Gongen in pic related. Originally a native (Shinto) mountain tengu God, Iizunamaru became worshiped as a Gongen, which is when Japanese kami become incorporated into Buddhism.
Iizuna is depicted as riding or being accompanied by a white kitsune, and kuda-gitsune (what Tsukasa is) are also sometimes called 'Izuna'.
Iizuna Gongen is also know as Iizuna Saburou and is one of the eight tengu of Japan (eight famous daitengu). People have been theorising that there are eight daitengu in Gensoukyou because Kurama tengu, another of the eight tengu, has previously been referenced in a chapter of CoLA.

>>34630248
On the internet, nobody knows you're Youki.

>>34630965
>Kurama tengu
Ah yes, Daitengu Kurama Humorous Report. She definitely sounds like a special character.

>>34596480
Saki's + Byak's Card is great for a survival Sanae run, that bomb is just too powerful.

I really like the commentary in this game. Maybe I see deeper meaning in shit that isn't deep but, Megumu and Chimata represent two ideas when it comes to economics.
Megumu and Chimata have ideological differences when it comes to the "marketplace" (selling the ability cards). Chimata views the marketplace where it has rules and regulations. Megumu is the opposite in that it should be only business and few rules as possible. Megumu also wants power to be centralized in the tengus, giving them control of the market. In the game Megumu betrays Chimata due to this. I think it's super interesting giving two ways of economics (Government regulated vs free market capitalism) as bases for two characters is awesome.

This isn't the first time ZUN gave some sort of commentary on markets, either. In the Magical Astronomy CD, for Necrofantasia there is this quote: "Capitalism, just as a Noah's Ark, has promoted the economic gaps. Because of this, the birth rates of all countries have fallen, though this just means that capitalism has entered its final step, population controlling." I'd love to read more of ZUN's thoughts on government.

>>34626077
ZUN: It's actually me
>https://twitter.com/beatmario/status/1388519721268486144

So Hatate is a tengu royalty now?

Bump.

>mining
Are the Former Hell inhabitants or Satori not complaining about this?

>>34636955
It's inside the mountain, not underground

>>34632913
looks like so

>>34632913
>HIMEkaido
He planned this all along.

>>34638894
I'd believe it, what with izanagi object being relevant again for no reason

>>34632913
>>34638099
Wait what? Where is this coming from?

>>34638894
That’s cool but I still want to know why it’s now ‘confirmed’

some interesting details found by japs:

In stage 4, you might have noticed that: your bombs cannot always wipe out Misumaru's yin-yang orbs
is this because the items (yin-yang orbs, mini-Hakkero, etc.) and Misumaru's are essentially the same as Izanagi Objects, so they can't do harm to each other?
if so, this may also reveal why Misumaru knows the names of protagonists at her first sight (plots in conversations)
caus she probably could communicate w/ the items, and thus realize what their masters are like (assume that they're all produced by Misumaru w/ Izanagi Objects)
But opposers say that, in the background text of Misumaru, ZUN only mentions: "By using the power of magatamas, it is easy to copy the abilities and read the information of others."
This sounds like she could actually read information unilaterally rather than read thru her own products, and thus the producer of the items is not necessarily Misumaru

And in Hifuu series: Neo-traditionalism of Japan, Maribel found those magatama-like man-made stuffs in a "cave entrance filled with the frightening stench of death"; could this cave be the Kouryudou in TH18?
besides, Maribel told Renko that "I keep seeing these new visions, one right after the other." "I can see it. The shape of Japan as Izanagi made it, 25 million years ago."
be reminded that magatamas can contain & copy souls, abilities and "memories"
this again implies that the man-made stuffs Maribel found are in fact magatamas, and perhaps she was just experiencing the ancient memories sealed in those magatamas
this also hints that Misumaru should be more than 25 million years old

some interesting details found by japs:

In stage 4, you might have noticed that: your bombs cannot always wipe out Misumaru's yin-yang orbs
is this because the items (yin-yang orbs, mini-Hakkero, etc.) and Misumaru's are essentially the same as Izanagi Objects, so they can't do harm to each other?
if so, this may also reveal why Misumaru knows the names of protagonists at her first sight (plots in conversations)
caus she probably could communicate w/ the items, and thus realize what their masters are like (assume that they're all produced by Misumaru w/ Izanagi Objects)

But opposers say that, in the background text of Misumaru, ZUN only mentions: "By using the power of magatamas, it is easy to copy the abilities and read the information of others."
This sounds like she could actually read information unilaterally rather than read thru her own products, and thus the producer of the items is not necessarily Misumaru

And in Hifuu series: Neo-traditionalism of Japan, Maribel found those magatama-like man-made stuffs in a "cave entrance filled with the frightening stench of death"; could this cave be the Kouryudou in TH18?

besides, Maribel told Renko that "I keep seeing these new visions, one right after the other." "I can see it. The shape of Japan as Izanagi made it, 25 million years ago."
be reminded that magatamas can contain & copy souls, abilities and "memories"
this again implies that the man-made stuffs Maribel found are in fact magatamas, and perhaps she was just experiencing the ancient memories sealed in those magatamas

this also hints that Misumaru should be more than 25 million years old

>>34639614
>this also hints that Misumaru should be more than 25 million years old
Who knows.
If anything, that would put her somewhere near second place after Eirin's old ass.

>>34638894
no wonder Hatate is an impolite ojou-sama

>>34639475
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Level_Cap_and_Rank_System

>>34639737
Now I'm not sure whether all those fanwork of Hatate being a friendless NEET makes more or less sense.

>>34639958
Nobody mixes with royalty, let alone impolite royalty. >>34639737
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Level_Cap_and_Rank_System
If it's based on that system, that leaves Hatate at a greater rank than Tenkyu and Aya just going by color schemes. Or their little hats.

>>34639991
I saw someone theorise that Hatate's surname lacking a 'maru' suffix like Aya and Megumu's could be a sign of her pedigree.

>>34640034
>maru
why though

>>34640054
We don't know. It just seems like there's some sort of system with crow tengu names and Hatate is the odd one out.

>>34608742
just found that Chimata's last name Tenkyu literally means "bow in the sky", which exactly refers to rainbows

>>34639991
>Tenkyu
Just noticed this fuckup.
Color scheme is still a weird way to separate them, but I don't think much is known about the Tengu's hierarchy. If Megumu is Aya's superior, then it points to something similar to the cap and rank system.

>>34640129
Might be a bit premature to call it since we've only had three confirmed appearance so far.
... Can't believe I actually want more tengu now. ZUN might as well give us Red Aya and Green Aya to complete the set.

I always knew Hatate was number one.
Now put her in another fucking game ZUN, stop clowning around.

>>34641034
>I always knew Hatate was number one.
too bad Hater makes shit art.

>>34641181
hater is decent

>>34641181
you are such a hater

>>34644761
badum tiss
the original post was going to be about her threads, but it wouldn't have made a difference.

>>34632192
I don't really understand Zun's position on Gensokyo's economy. In the Lotus Asia chapter he seems to narrate that there are no rich people in Gensokyo, yet we know of the existence of rich families from Forbidden Scrollery. And the only kinda evil guy was the Salt Merchant. a

>As I just explained, money has different value between Gensokyo and the Outside World, so exchanging one for the other is pointless.

>"No, absolutely not. It's perfectly appropriate to choose money as payment for your work. The thing that villains do-- the thing that's truly immoral-- is to attach real value to paper currency. Making people believe nonsense like 'this slip of paper is worth enough to buy an entire house!', and distributing it as such."

This position just doesn't seem to make sense. We know Gensokyo has merchants and even rich people like Akyuu. Gensokyo's economy seemed to based on pre-industrial Japan. Obviously some things are going to cost more than others, and to buy a house you need to have more money than for a hammer, if the builders so demand.

>>34632192
>Megumu is the opposite in that it should be only business and few rules as possible. Megumu also wants power to be centralized in the tengus, giving them control of the market.
Can’t help but see some hypocrisy in this. Which is just another neat facet of it.

>>34648049
Part of that is saying paper slips dont have real value and arent real money. Most coins (at least early on in their printing) are made of valuable materials like copper or silver that gives them more than just the ‘imaginary’ value since they could be melted down and used for stuff. He’s saying paper slips dont count as money.

As for the no rich people part, yeah that’s weird. Akyuu has a bunch of attendants and servants and stuff. Maybe she gets an almost religious exemption since she’s the child of Miare.

There’s lots of rich youkai but he was probably just talking about humans.

Some humans are better off than others, but maybe there just arent any well off enough to be called rich. The human village isnt allowed to have a proper leader and anyone too wealthy would probably count as that, which means Yukari or someone would take action against them.

>>34648049
>"No, absolutely not. It's perfectly appropriate to choose money as payment for your work. The thing that villains do-- the thing that's truly immoral-- is to attach real value to paper currency. Making people believe nonsense like 'this slip of paper is worth enough to buy an entire house!', and distributing it as such."
I think that's tied into the tengu from the new game

>If she used them to make an entertainment product that people would want to trade, she could probably make a fair profit.
>However, if she simply made and sold them, there'd be a limit to both how long and how much she could profit.

>Therefore, she decided to put the products into wide circulation, and construct a currency system specifically for exchanging them. Whenever a card merchant made an exchange, the currency system would spread further, and she'd be able to profit off of that. She knew that this would earn her a far greater turnout than making and selling things directly.

>>34648188
>As for the no rich people part, yeah that’s weird. Akyuu has a bunch of attendants and servants and stuff. Maybe she gets an almost religious exemption since she’s the child of Miare.

The Salt Merchant had servants as well, and he was regarded highly for treating his employees well, until going mad from horse meat. The Merchant owned a mansion, had multiple servants and was highly regarded in the village, as proven by the large funeral crowd.
By all accounts, he was a wealthy individual, and nobody had a problem with it.

>>34639991
The cap system is obviously not in play as Aya and Hatate have already confirmed they are of the same rank (newspaper writers)

>>34610924
Sounds kinda like the Lorax

>>34649507
That's not entirely infallible, considering CoLA does mention a paper made by a Daitengu. It's possible their caste system is separated from their rank as journalists.

>>34648049
I don't get the impression that he was saying there's no rich people, per se. More likely that he's saying there's no rich people *according* to the Outside World value (which given the discussion basically boils down to more money/scraps of paper)
Both the Salt Merchant and Akyuu are rich, but one is a wholesaler of essential commodity and the other is from a distinguished lineage. Both have the history to back up their wealth, so their value are more than the sum of their treasury.
Remember he did start off the conversation by scoffing at the idea of Sumi getting more money to spend; calling it a shallow idea even.

>>34648049
I think he just means that paper money is simply meant to represent value. It's backed by something, but the paper by itself becomes useless if you rip it apart for example.

>>34649507
>>34650149
Also possibly Hatate's paper is just a rich girl hobby thing. Beats owning a restaurant I guess.

>>34650850
That'd explain why she keeps doing it even though apparently it's incredibly unpopular.

>>34650850
It isn't a hobby though, she says it's something she must do and complains about the workload

>>34629685
Can't say it does anon.

Nope, not at all.

>>34652197
So upper class girl try to dive into middle/lower-class workforce and found out it's pretty harsh?

>>34638099
No. Megumu is literally the leader of all Crow Tengu. She's the top. Her orders to Crow Tengu are 'absolute'.

>>34654074
More like she has to do something, and even the easiest job is hard work.

I noticed that Megumu's sprite is almost the same after you beat her. Probably because she was going easy on you and wanted you to go on ahead and deal with Chimata for her.

>>34655833
Yeah, she was probably playing around.

I wonder how many if any of the newhus will get some development in whaletits’ manga. WaHH had a ton of guest characters from recent games all the time, and was great for learning little things about them. I hope we get to see a few, especially the lategame characters.

>>34656367
>I wonder how many if any of the newhus will get some development in whaletits’ manga.
None of them will, just like none of the TH17 characters have gotten any development 3 years later. And no, the single panel omake cameo doesn't counts.

>>34656634
None of the TH17 characters live in Gensokyo. A TH18 character showing up to the youkai bar just to drink and chat wouldn’t be out of place at all.

>>34656634
In fairness, the WBaWC cast lives kinda out of the way. Plus I imagine the late-game characters might get slightly better coverage in 17.5, what with Toutetsu and all.

>>34656367
Megumu will likely be saved for the next photo game.

>>34654678
>>34654074
both she and Aya complain about it https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Alternative_Facts_in_Eastern_Utopia/Article_and_Interview/Three_Tengu

And Hatate in this article sounds equal with Aya (as usual), and she complains about higher ranks and the like. If Aya and Hatate aren't equal of rank, they seem to at least ignore that here and in Double Spoiler despite also making note of that very clear caste/class system. Momiji is definitely the lowest on the totem pole, here, as she uses respectful language for both of them and, well, says she is.

>>34656367
I don't really see it happening, but wouldn't mind. I expect it to be like the fairies manga, with extremely rare cameos from new players

>>34656634
>the single panel omake cameo
those aren't really omake, they're illustrations of moments in ZUN's life but with persons replaced by Touhou characters

Megumu's name is 龍 and she's got star-related powers. The star on Meiling's hat has 龍 written on it. What did ZUN mean by this?

The real question is why is Megumu called 龍 when it's 寵 that can be read 'megumu'.
The same goes for Tsukasa whose last name is 菅牧 (Kudamaki) despite it being 管 that's read 'kuda' (as in kudagitsune) and not 菅.

It's interesting how Megumu's theme is called Starry Mountain of Tenma as if to remind us that she's not the boss of the mountain or even the tengus.
When was the last time the tenma was referenced?

>>34659134
In the same game, in Okina's card.
Maybe ZUN is trying to foreshadow something. But ZUN is ZUN, so who the fuck knows.

>>34659312
Tenma's another name for Mara, right? Remind me what Okina's connection with Mara is, she's such a complicated god.

>>34658743
Well we've never seen Meiling and Megumu in the same room, have we.

Joke aside might just be a pun, given the title.

>>34659694
Matarajin was an asshole god of hindrances/obstacles. He claims if you don't worship him you're not passing on to the next world/achieving enlightenment. Mara tried to tempt Buddha and prevent his enlightenment. He was basically the ultimate personification of temptation. He was the original maou and supposedly where the character 'ma' (魔) comes from.
The characters in Matarajin are the same 'ma' and 'ra' as in 'Mara' (摩羅). The 'ta' (多) means lots, so his name is like 'lots of mara' = lots of obstacle to buddhist practice/enlightenment. So basically Matarajin's etymology can be traced back to Mara.
And yeah the original Sanskrit Mara can be rendered like 'Tenma' (天魔) in Chinese characters. He's basically the same kind of existence as Mara.

>>34659694 >>34661862
you just remind me of these

>>34662027
real sick charts of Okina

maybe i'll try to make eng vers of them one day
or check this for some discussions
>https://www.resetera.com/threads/touhou-community-thread-immaterial-and-missing-posts.858/page-5

>>34662044
maybe i'll try to make eng vers of them one day
or check this for some discussions
>https://www.resetera.com/threads/touhou-community-thread-immaterial-and-missing-posts.858/page-5

>>34656873
>None of the TH17 characters live in Gensokyo
Yuyuko and Youmu don't either, doesn't stops them from hanging out with Reimu all the time.

>>34662027
I love the Eternity - Okina rivalry thing. ZUN really does his research.

>>34662104
Hey look the Tenma appears in this chart along with tengus as an enemy of Buddhism. And tengu odoshi is a spellcard that Mai and Satono use. That's cool.

One tidbit I’m surprised hasn’t been brought up in this thread already, during a time when gambling was illegal in Japan there used to be semi hidden semi open gambling clubs that marked themselves by portraying a tengu statue or picture out front.

Typically these dens dealt with card games. I think hanafuda was a popular one. But yeah, card games and tengu went together. We got a new tengu this game. This game was about cards. Might have been an intentional ‘thing’.

Then again, Sannyo was the casino owner, so maybe it wasn’t meant to be a thing.

>>34662460
Maybe you're on to something, the casino's hidden on the tengu's mountain, right?

>>34662106
Eh, Yuyuko is buddy-buddy with Yukari, so she has a much easier time crossing back and forth.
Also you have to consider that they might just not have a reason to hang around Gensokyo.

>>34662472
Yes, it is and tengus must frequent often, being so much hidden from humans like that. We now know in this game it's somewhere that mine cave, but musn't be that big.

Maybe will appear in the mangas later in a proper casino ambient, it's perfect place to write stories for manga.

>>34662361
>Hey look the Tenma appears in this chart along with tengus as an enemy of Buddhism.
I guess that explains Aya being extra-dickish to Byakuren

am i getting rusty or is touhou 18 way tougher than 16 and 17 were?

>>34671505
It really depends on the cards you get. Without cards, you're much weaker than in most games. Some use cards are also quite broken.
The stage 3 boss is also more difficult than in 16 and 17, so that difficult part of the game is longer.

>>34671505
This aint the gameplay thread, but it seems fucking brutal at first. If you use the right cards, especially after unlocking more starter slots, then it’s a lot easier though. It really just depends on your cards.

>>34671904
i feel like there's more homing bullets than in the previous two games, as well as more enemies who come from behind

>>34671920
>This aint the gameplay thread
i know, i just didn't want to make an entire thread for my question
i guessed the cards make the game easier but since my nip is weak i didn't figure out most of the meanings

>>34615838

>>34582442
I really didn't like newhus designs at first but after a while fox, gay god and tengu seem like they have potential.

>>34675201
I liked ceo of gay from the moment I saw her. Fox is cool, I’m indifferent towards shiny aya.

I like Sannyo, not sure why. I like green nitori’s spellcards a lot, and that sort of makes me like the character.

My first thought about Mike’s spellcards was that she was ripping off Meiling. I dunno if that’s lorestuff or just Mike’s spells ripping off Meiling’s.

>>34625985
A fairy from hell draping herself in an american flag to fuck with lunarians because her boss's girlfriend hates them and a hell god with no nationality. Your point?

>>34676896
>with no nationality
Hecatia is confirmed to be/be based off of Hecate and Clownpiece is a lampad (a servant of Hecate). In other words: Greeks

>>34677527
If they are greek, shouldn't they be more… tanned?

>>34582442
I played toho a long time ago and my favorite ws #6, should i get back into it? are the new ones good?

I don’t know if the tengu cap thing has that much meaning, Momiji is a lower rank than Aya but both have red caps.

>>34678083
Why would you ask this in a lore thread? But yes, the games are still fun. Try them, and then stick to the one(s) you like most.

>>34678148
I'm asking here because it's my drunk drive-by shitposting and i never go on this board but this thread is about something i used to be into. Is there any legit way to buy them in english etc which is easy or is it still pure piracy?

>>34678184
>Is there any legit way to buy them in english
No but you can buy them on steam and english-patch.

>>34678037
You could say the same about the Japanese characters

>>34678625
you can buy quite a few of them*

Not all

>>34639614
>this also hints that Misumaru should be more than 25 million years old
can Misumaru join the 5 old hags now

>>34678148
>Momiji is a lower rank than Aya but both have red caps
From what I understand looking it up, the cap seems to be more about personal merit and less actual hierarchy, so it doesn't seem all that unlikely, theoretically speaking.
Still that does put Hatate above the like of a Daitengu, and honestly the thougtht itself is the most hilarious part of this.

now that i don't see any limit to Chimata's power, isn't she actually quite strong?
man, the power to rob ownership; she can deprive /jp/s of your ownership of virgin in no time!

>>34683230
She's not stronger than the law, and it's illegal to sell virginity.
Checkmate, Chimata!

>>34686675
>and it's illegal to sell virginity.
Wtf Gensokyo has laws?

as the storyline in TH18 is clear now, it's time to come up w/ plots for newhu doujins!

one thing is that: Momoyo is a centipede girl, and Wriggle has the ability to control insects
so Wriggle might be able to do tehehe stuffs to Momoyo
>BUG SEX fandom when

Alice is known as the seven colored puppeteer. Is there anything in this new rainbow focused game that ties into her at all?

I’m gonna guess not, but it doesn’t hurt to ask.

>>34691710
Momoyo ft Zounose
I'd be surprised if he doesn't do this.

>>34626867
>greek lampad nymph
>american flag on the moon
?? not that much

>>34691710
I can just feel that the doujins featuring Misumaru will all have her acting like a doting grandma to Reimu for humor or something like that.

>>34692562
She stands holding the torch upwards a la Statue of Liberty.

>>34691710
Momoyo rough kissing doujin because saliva weakens her

>>34691816
There is Shanghai card, that's all

>>34693421
Blue Aya taming the centipede with her tongue!

>>34691710
a weird PERSONAL COLOR doujin about Reimu and Misumaru please

>>34691710
I, for one, will await Spacejin CBT doujins starring Misumaru

>>34695242
Spacejin will definitely draw blue Aya or/and centipede girl

>>34691710
I wonder how ZUN will add these new characters in the manga. Clearly Misumaru is a very important character in the Touhou project given the creation of Reimu's ying yang orbs.

>>34699509
clearly mima is a very important character in the touhou project given she was marisa's mentor

>>34700183
misumaru IS the creator of reimu's ying yang orbs
mima WAS marisa's mentor

>>34700263
>>34699509
Not really. She made the tool but that's all.

>>34700183
OK but in what manga did Mima appear in

>>34700183
PC98 is a special kind of hell. Granny orb has better chances to appear than Mima solely because the former is a recent addition.

>お金を２００消費して死を無かったことにする
>四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥの能力
>生前に何をしてきたのか全て判ります
>……それだけのお金を持っているという事は
>もう一回人生をやり直す価値は持っているようね
Wait, what is this descrption implying exactly about Eiki? That because you've made a lot of money, you're worthy of living longer? That the fact that you've made money means that you've earned the trust, sympathy of others through trade and made them happy enough that they'd give you money? Or is it related to an offering (even though the concept of obol is technically Greek)? Because it kind of makes Eiki look greedy.

>>34705952
TL from wiki:
Money Is The Best Lawyer In Hell[16]
Type: Passive Card
Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu's ability to spend 200 of
your money and pretend that a death never happened.
I know everything that you did in life before you died.
...Since you have that much money in your possession,
it seems that you're worthy enough to get a second chance at life.

>>34705952
>>34706244
Guess our black-white miss judge might not be so black-white.

>>34705952
Eiki's just like that.
https://twitter.com/kaiuzMP/status/1391001223977791489

>>34608742
>Chimata isn't based on any existing god, but is the divine personification of the long-forgotten medieval Japanese custom of holding markets when there's a rainbow.
Do you have any source on that? I remember trying to look it up when this was first posted but I can't find anything.

>>34715869
Not an English source but:
https://note.com/tanahashi/n/nc5eb022b814e
https://twitter.com/gaisurvive/status/1389476085977526275
Also, if you're interested, supposedly Chimata's another Matarajin situation where we can be pretty sure what book ZUN referenced when researching the topic. The note blog links to it.

>>34715985
Yeah was expecting no english source as the answer as to why I couldn't find anything, thanks al ot.

>>34706244
>>34705952
>>34706781
It's kinda based around how you need to pay to cross the Sanzu, and other bizarrely culturally common aspects that tie money and death. Funerals are expensive, the Styx has a fare to cross, and Dia de los Muertos/Mexican tradition involves money/being buried with money. There's also money pardons in living courts.

Finally Hell is like in infinite financial crisis. Lesser discussed fact because part of this comes from the Road of Liminality, a place in Gensokyo which as far as I'm aware has only been mentioned in PMiSS and though it is a popular place--we've never examined it in any other works

>>34717142
oh that and this of course

Prior to this she also tells Komachi that a shinigami earning money is a good deed.
I have to imagine Eiki judges on HOW one earns money too, but it IS noted that she doesn't follow laws, only her own hardline opinions.

>>34705952
>Wait, what is this descrption implying exactly about Eiki?
Nothing.
I interpreted as old history revolving around the church and indulgences. So long as you had the money, you could pay the church to relieve you of your sins (no matter how many times it may be done).
For Touhou, it's probably about the netherworld as >>34717142 states.

>>34717189
what I mentioned

>>34717202
This said I don't remember if the money you have on you when you die in the Touhouverse is from family or from good deeds. I feel like I've heard it wasn't from good deeds, but this says it is. May be a contradiction somewhere, likely mentioned by Komachi if it is, but it could be I'm just misremembering.

>>34699509
>I wonder how ZUN will add these new characters in the manga
He won't, much like there aren't any TH17 girls in the mangas.

>>>>34648188
I was just thinking, is Zun actually dabbing on cryptos with the trading cards? That seems much more plausible, than "being rich bad".

>>34717255
See >>34717189
Eiki seems to consider stimulating the economy to be a good deed in itself. So she’s probably talking about literal cash, and saying that those who earn and spend are building karma by doing so.

What's the current state of text-grapping and auto-translation?

Two years ago it was pretty easy via Textractor and Bing/Google translation but it seems like it is heavily outdated and requires paid API keys to function. I heard about DeepL, is this the current state of the art?

Sorry, I am bit out of the loop.

>>34720050
It's possible, with how topical ZUN likes to get lately...

>>34720050
I think that may be looking into things too much. They were probably just thought of as a gameplay mechanic. Although it’s an interesting take.

I still don’t entirely get why the protagonists wanted to take down the card dealers. Just wanted to prevent too level of a playing field due to small fries being able to use powerful spells? Felt robbed since there were cards based on what they could do? They say the cards are dangerous, but youkai can already do plenty of dangerous things.

>>34728068
>Just wanted to prevent too level of a playing field due to small fries being able to use powerful spells?
Probably. I mean Reimu is the creator of the spellcard system so it's natural that she would be the one enforcing the spell card rules if she feels like something is wrong or giving an unfair advantage over other characters. The other protagonists I'm not so sure about.

>>34662361
>Tenma incident
>Byakuren playable
ZUN please

>>34728068
>I still don’t entirely get why the protagonists wanted to take down the card dealers
Wasn't it mentioned that the card also holds some (presumably private) info of the characters they're copying? I doubt anyone, the girls especially, would want those things circulated too far.

bump

>>34729773
I think it was said they hold a bit of their power or their soul, I forget which.

I can see why one would not want others buying or selling that.

>>34720050
Could be.

>Dragon gems have a very slight soul-capturing effect, even without being refined into magatama. If [Megumu] used them to make an entertainment product that people would want to trade, she could probably make a fair profit.
>However, if she simply made and sold them, there'd be a limit to both how long and how much she could profit.
>Therefore, she decided to put the products into wide circulation, and construct a currency system specifically for exchanging them. Whenever a card merchant made an exchange, the currency system would spread further, and she'd be able to profit off of that. She knew that this would earn her a far greater turnout than making and selling things directly.

>>34732350
Might also be some metanarrative thing about doujin works. Touhou would not be as popular as it is without all the fan stuff.

>>34732424
Yeah I think there's an element of that. >>34588035 maybe this too.

>>34586817
She looks like a bootleg Tenshi.

>>34691710
food chain is a hot topic

>>34735728
That's a good thing

>>34717741
On the contrary, since she's a Craftsman that's native to Gensokyo she can probably show up somewhere when their expertise is useful.
More chance then Keiki at the very least.

>>34735728
I think there was an image of Tenshi fusing with another character to create Chimata, but I can't find it right now.

>>34691710
Spy vs Spy with the bad spending habit crowd, except it's about out-scamming the others in a weird tangled pyramid scheme where the mark (Marisa) is also trying to rob them blind.
In the end Reimu comes in and Hakurei Intuition (Tm) the her way through the rigged games before taking everyone for tea (on pain of needles if they refuse).

>>34743575

>>34745590
That's the one. Thanks.

>>34691710
>it's time to come up w/ plots
I'll have to think on it. Off the top of my head, Sannyo gives me Otose vibes for some reason.

Speculation about why Megumu's ability is to control the starry sky was getting pretty crazy on some circles on twitter.
I can't be bothered to go find it all, but it's true that her ability is the only one of the cast that feels kind of mysterious. It's not really touched on in game or in the omake.

>>34761188
Given Suika once busted the moon (or an illusionary image of one) I can't see how manipulating the starry sky would be so impressive.

Does anyone have all the character portraits and expressions?

Neat that there were quite a few characters holding back during the main story.

Misumaru seemed totally unfazed after her test fight against you, and actively saves you.

Megumu wanted you to get past her to fight Chimata.

I wonder what those two are like playing danmaku ‘for real’.

Tsukasa’s extra midboss fight gives the impression she was holding back during the main game, and was probably using you against Megumu and Chimata, just like Megumu was. To what end, I dont know. Maybe she was trying to monopolize the magatama for herself by working with the centipede.

Another neat thing I didnt think about til now, some touhou fodder enemies dont have lore, but this game singlehandedly gave the magatama ball enemies that have been around a while some sense of placement in the world. Wether they’re made from Misumaru or just spirits from the mine(s) I dont know, but I appreciate it. With all the magic the dragon stones are capable of, it wouldnt be surprising if these spirit balls just rise out of them sometimes. Lots of possibilities.

How much longer do you guys think for the English translation to be completed?

>>34774874
the only thing left seems to be sanae's endings, so hopefully within the next day or so

>>34769153
>I wonder what those two are like playing danmaku ‘for real’.
Who knows.
There's no reason for either to try against humans. If anything, it's probably more of a surprise that you're strong enough to combat Misumaru in a low oxygen area. You'd be weak and unable to focus.

>>34769153
>the magatama ball enemies
The yin yangs?

here's a touhou telegram group if any of you use telegram:

https://t.me/twohu

im @touhou on telegram too

>>34780715
????????

test

I'm kind of wondering how 17.5 will be when they finally (finally) release it.

>>34784476
Just give me the newhu, I honestly couldn't care less about anything else.

>>34769153
Most final bosses in Touhou games are holding back when fighting against the MCs. The only two that truly go all out are Okuu and Junko and even in the latter's case when you beat her it comes off as if she was going all out but just decided to stop fighting you rather than you actually defeating her.

>>34778442
Yes.

>>34786047
I know almost nobody goes all out by virtue of the danmaku system, but I had the impression most final bosses are playing to win. Remi, Yuyuko, Kaguya, Kanako, Okuu, for example, seemed to be trying to win. They were playing by danmaku rules, but trying to win.

>>34781004
Just report that kind of shit.
>>34784476
Game dev hell must be real. I hope the longer wait is worth it.

>>34788184
>Remi
Nah

Remilia wanted to lose and started an incident just to test the system that her actions had created (the vampire incident led directly to the spell card system and of course Remilia was the first to prompt Reimu into using it)

Kaguya also seemed ready to give up, and she DOES allow you victory even if you fail her impossible tasks. As for Yuyuko it's implied that she knew at least subconsciously that she would fail, but yeah she did seem pretty serious. I think of those listed other than Okuu Kanako was indeed serious.

bump

Unconvincing Merchants?
Unbecoming Minecraft?

Uncelebrated Manslaughter?

Undiagnosed Multiple Sclerosis?

Uninterrupted Masturbation?

Unsalted Medicant?

>>34793335
I suppose they can kind of justify it as being the pandemic's fault because I can myself feel the fucking mental strain of not just going to a place to do my work.

>>34761188
Izuna-gongen was known to have performed miracles by bringing rice from the mountain during great famine.
Guess what is usually associated with miracles.

>>34814222
>bringing rice from the mountain
Which was actually a kind of moss/fungus/something which local people believed that tengu were growing on the mountain like rice

>>34815604
Yeah, this is what her ability card is based on, and it's also not the first time it's been referenced in the series. Pic related in from BAiJR.

>>34762284
Megumu's ability is one of the few hard counters to Renko's ability.

>>34597609
>Some worldbuilding.
>Literally one of the most important parts of gensokyo in PMISS.
Oh ZUN...

>>34629623
He's going to stop snubbing Mima when he feels like giving his main characters a backstory.

So, you know, never.

>>34648049
Most likely: ZUN doesn't think hard enough about the matter. That and he constantly changes the lore to suit his stories.

With that said though, I do think it kind of makes sense if you assume Gensokyo has class without money. The Merchant, on account of his job almost certainly involving trading with Youkai, is of a way higher social rank than some random peasant that never interacts with the ruling class of Gensokyo. Akyuu is a even more obvious example in that regard.

>>34677527
>Greeks.
Hecate is a Titan. Meaning she predates Zeus and is probably one of the oldest people in all of Touhou.

>>34686729
It has one law: Do what the Hakurei Shrine Maiden tells you.

>>34686675
The law answers to those who control the market. Even you know this. The law needs funding, and where does that come from? That's right.

>>34821360
We all know Mima was going to appear in CDS.

bump

not yet

>>34632192
While it would be interesting to get his take, any such discussion would lead to politics and politics in the modern era is not what it used to be.

>>34821553
Do what Reimu says, but not what she does.

So what is the message of the story? I truly don't think ZUN is complaining about trading stuff. In fact, the game itself says the "incident" is not that serious since the cards are actually not dangerous, "just toys that have limited power". On the contrary, he seems to glorify the traditional markets, even though Chimata says they are "fights" in the Reimu ending, where people meet, "struggle" to gain/sell their stuff, which favours normal social exchanges. I'm guessing he really is fed up with the coronavirus bullshit and how it destroyed the "little man's trade" in favor of the big corporations, which totally makes sense since he, after all, is a doujinshi creator.

>>34864185
>I'm guessing he really is fed up with the coronavirus bullshit and how it destroyed the "little man's trade" in favor of the big corporations, which totally makes sense since he, after all, is a doujinshi creator.
Mate, it's about everyone in that situation. You say it's glorification when your very livelihood depends on it.

>>34874522
very cute

>>34864185
ZUN! was probably inspired by the crypto surge in the media.

>>34864185
I found it pretty nostalgic, honestly. The idea is less Comiket and more corner stores and farmer's markets where you know the owner and can shoot the shit with him. Nowadays that kind of exchange doesn't happen or happens less. You use Uber to get to places instead of a cabbie you know, you use Amazon to buy stuff instead of specialist stores, you use Doordash to order food instead of going to a place nearby. Everything is anonymized, everyone is faceless.

Which, incidentally, is the exact thing that would empower Chimata. Maybe she just needs to get into the service industry instead of physical goods. I mean, isn't "Uber for spellcards" this game's whole idea anyway?

>>34582442
Imagine being a fangame maker and getting directly dabbed on by ZUN with what now is the canon of a great tengu's apparel, sucks to be ido

>>34882972
>Ido
Are his fangames actually any good?

>>34882972
Eh, he knew the risks when he made a fan tengu. Could be worse, Fantasy Maiden Wars made Makura right when LoLK came out.

>>34884009
>Fantasy Maiden Wars made Makura right when LoLK came out.
FMW's take on Keine was also pretty much 1:1 with Kasen before WaHH came out.

>>34874522
fukken amazing

>>34874522
>Thank you for coming! - ZUN - 2021/5/23
What event took place yesterday?
Also, was that cute af card distributed at the event, or did godspeed anon design and print it by himself and took it to ZUN to sign? Because that would be awesome.

>>34874522
certificate of attendance at Chimata's free market

Tenkyu Chimata's ability to make people enjoy buying and selling in markets
With this card, you can have fun trading in markets, and can take part in markets happily in the future

In this era when online shopping is so common, isn't it that the markets trading goods face to face are disappearing?
Well, humans are not aggregations of bits, the trades lacking permission from the god of markets might never satisfy us

*This card will be forcibly equipped after purchase

>>34896333
ZUN selling Touhou 18 at a doujin event, ¥1000 for each
The card attached as a tenkyu card

"Tomorrow on 23rd, I will take part in the Comic1 BS Festival Special, table A38a Team Shanghai Alice. Although it has already been released, I will bring Touhou 18 along. Waiting for ya without booze."
https://twitter.com/korindo/status/1395917852385767424

>>34896333
ZUN selling Touhou 18 at a doujin event, ¥1000 for each
The card attached as a TenkYu card

"Tomorrow on 23rd, I will take part in the Comic1 BS Festival Special, table A38a Team Shanghai Alice. Although it has already been released, I will bring Touhou 18 along. Waiting for ya without booze."
https://twitter.com/korindo/status/1395917852385767424

>>34897449
! limited number !
on this spot only
gift poster for blood donation
present
those who help donate 400mL of blood will be gifted

"Hey Mister? Don't you wanna help donate some blood?"

>>34883781
Hollow Song of Birds definitely is, meme idalogues for choice moments aside, it's the closest a fangame gets to official 2hu games in terms of presentation, characters and music, with quite the large pool of shot options to tinker around it
Definitely play this shit yesterday

>>34897449
this is why you buy physical

>>34897095
That's cute. He really loves conventions, doesn't he.

>>34897995
>Hey Mister
anon

>>34897449
>>34897995
This is amazing. Thanks for posting these.

>>34820020
Fairies could conceivably trick her as well.

>>34761188
As for this I think what the other anon mentioned about Suika is important. It depends on if she's actually moving the stars themselves, or simply the image. I would say doing that much is also still impressive, but it's not as mad as literally moving the stars

>>34769153
>Tsukasa’s extra midboss fight gives the impression she was holding back during the main game, and was probably using you against Megumu and Chimata, just like Megumu was. To what end, I dont know. Maybe she was trying to monopolize the magatama for herself by working with the centipede.
There is no end. She is a youkai that manipulates and causes trouble.

She has no true goals other than "problems"

>>34903704
~Subtle~ Seija

>>34897995
I'm a regular blood donor in my country, wonder if they would accept my gaijin blood since I would be there as a tourist.
Cute poster though, thanks for posting.

>>34769153
>>34903704
Read some of the dialogue and the basis lore for Megumu again. Megumu is Tsukasa's true master.
While Tsukasa definitely like manipulating others, most likely she still does it for Megumu's interest (stated in one of the endings), or at least she isn't some kind of free youkai that just sew discord around. Megumu likely has full control of her as familiar.
If you take account what Megumu is based on, she probably command many kuda-gitsunes as her trademark and use them as fodder.

>>34897095
>*This card will be forcibly equipped after purchase
Hey, it's true. You have to hold it to equip it, or rather it's equipped the moment you hold it.

>>34912940
>Megumu likely has full control of her as familiar.
Likely, but she looked free to do as she wished.

>>34904074
There's nothing subtle about her.

>>34929664
Tsukasa didin't go out of her way to make it as blatant as Seija would.

Touhou Garakuta-soushi Magazine published part 1 of the official translation of a long interview w/ ZUN
https://en.touhougarakuta.com/interview/specialtaidan_zun_hiroyuki_1-en

Touhou wiki also has some parts translated, but still incomplete.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Articles_of_the_Outer_World/ZUN_long_interview

>>34912940
She may be her master but I thought tube foxes drained the hell out of their master's energy by default, like the one in WaHH

>>34945143
Does it say that pipe foxes drain energy or just causing bad luck to its own owners?
Regardless, Megumu must have some way to get around it or just straight up immune. I expect that much from someone who's supposed to be the "godfather" of kuda-gitsunes rather than just regular master/owner.

>>34948730
>>34945143
The thing about tube foxes is that they fool you. Megumu is her master, but Megumu listened to (and suffered for) everything Tsukasa said. The thing about them is they lull you into pseudo success, which ultimately leads to ruin. This has literally happened to Reimu already in canon, when she became such a fox's master

>>34949521
Actually, where does it says that Tsukasa being the one who started everything? Megumu may have listened to her advice, but she could still be the one who came up with the idea, and definitely the one who met and made deal with Chimata which soon lead to the breakup.
Nowhere does it says that Tsukasa slowly caused ruin to everyone during the co-op, only that she became the messanger. It's more like her role as scheming fox started when she lured the protags into fighting Chimata and Momoyo under Megumu's ploy, and in the end Megumu still came out as winner with the profit she has made.
All in all, there is no indication that Tsukasa has caused or planned any harm to Megumu. Her interaction to Chimata was more like boasting and Megumu certainly wasn't harmed in any way.

You may want to read about Izuna-Gongen to know why I said Megumu is not just her regular "master" and all the evil description about Tsukasa may doesn't apply to her.

>>34949521
>The thing about them is they lull you into pseudo success, which ultimately leads to ruin.
I can't believe Tsukasa isn't trustworthy.

>>34965925

Some shit from nikenme radio:

>ZUN: the cards have a rarity. Cards that are harder to use appear more often.

>ZUN: I didn't want to say 'true end', but the another endings are the true ends.

>Beat Mario: I laughed at Kodoku Gourmet
>ZUN: Well, because of corona you have to eat alone, you're forced to be kodoku

>ZUN: The scale bullets are a parody of DoDonPachi

>Beat Mario: In the background of stage 5, they're clearly gacha stones
>ZUN: That was my intention when making them. Well, they're really Izanagi objects though.

>Beat Mario: What's up with Chimata's pose? I saw people say it was representing a dollar sign.
>ZUN: It's the 'return everything to nothing' pose. It's not a dollar.

>Beat Mario: Why does the last boss have so many danmaku related spell cards? Like, 'Danmaku this...' and 'Bullet that...'.
>ZUN: Because she's selling danmaku. It's a market after all.

>ZUN: Kitsunes are evil, aren't they. At first I thought they were cute, but they have wicked personalities.

>Jyunya: Lately the kanji in the characters' names are to hard for me to read.
>ZUN: I give them tricky kanji on purpose. Otherwise they'd overlap with other characters.

>Jyunya: You're fond of Megumu, right?
>ZUN: I am, yeah. After all, she's the Great Tengu I've been hinting at all this time.

>ZUN: The extra boss is an homage to Mushihime sama. I put lots of references to stuff in extra. This time I wanted to do minecraft.

>ZUN: Gouyokuibun has a dark and interesting story. Lots of characters appear in it.
>Beat Mario: Does it come after 17 chronologically?
>ZUN: It's on a whole different level. (I wasn't really sure how to interpret this. He says 全然別次元の話)

>ZUN: Isn't going from Snake Eater into Dragon Eater really cool!?

>ZUN: I don't really know what kind of theme UM has. I put lots of stuff I wanted to say regarding coronavirus into it though.

>>34972763
Cool stuff. Thank you for summarizing and translating this.

>>34972763
>Jyunya: You're fond of Megumu, right?
>ZUN: I am, yeah.
New tengu game incoming. Or should I say income-ing, that's a money joke because the game's about money

>>34972763
>>ZUN: Gouyokuibun has a dark and interesting story. Lots of characters appear in it.
I
CAN'T
FUCKING
WAIIIIIIITTTTTTT!!
MAKE IT A MASTERPIECE TASOFRO