/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Original text to have 200% of the quality
Silly gaijins raping our proud culture

Direct translations if possible.

I don't want to read shit JAST or some other group made up for the convenience of it.

Fuck you, you made me hungry.
I refuse to answer your question.

direct translations

>>2980666
Average amerikkkan.

100% accurate translation is not really possible unless there are a couple of pages of liner notes to explain some things that couldn't be exactly translated into English.

>>2980665
Fuck you. Tim Woolseyism forever.

MangaGamer = 100% direct translations
jlist = lolcalization

>>2980682
>jlist

>>2980652

how localized? how direct is 100%? are we talking brain pancake crystal elderly here?

>>2980677
This person makes a good point.

If I'm watching anime subtitles, which include translator's notes (kawaii means cute) then I prefer exact translations. However, if I'm playing a video game, I like localization. Cases in point there are the wonderful Phoenix Wright localizations and the inferior ds Chrono Trigger (with more exact translation) vs snes Chrono Trigger (with localization)

I don't normally like localizations but the translation of Phoenix Wright (which changes pretty much everything) is fucking awesome, so it doesn't really matter for me as long as it's good.

Localization, so long as it is handled tactfully. Converting Japanese to English is only one half of the process. Arranging the language into a pattern coherent enough to sound as though it came from a native speaker of English is the skill that separates the pros from the wannabes. If you are sticking honorifics at the end of names and adding TL NOTES, then you just aren't a good translator, period.

>>2980695
I prefer mass naked child events.

>>2980708
DAMN YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>2980704
g/b2bed otaking

I'd like them to keep the original names, original ideas, and keep the culture of the show intact, but translate and localize the idioms, meanings, jokes and other such nuances that would otherwise go over the head of all but the staunchest japanophile. If these sayings/meanings are important to the story, and if there is no good English translation that keeps it the same, then that is when direct translations should come into play.

>>2980708
Those exist. I've seen them. I was in a zoo in Japan that had a fountain, and a bunch of people had their 3 and 4 year olds kids splashing around naked. I was like "Holy crap, a mass naked child event."

>>2980704
There's a lot of things (like Japanese honorifics) that don't have proper equivalents in english. Translations end up sounding much worse when you try to use some term that only half-fits the definition.

>>2980742
>Translations end up sounding much worse when you try to use some term that only half-fits the definition.
Which is why you just use the person's name without the honorific in most situations. The nature of the relationship is always implied anyway. If it's something like "sama" or "hime" you just use "lord" or "lady" or "princess" or whatever. English is the most versatile language on the planet, and you can almost always make things fit without sounding awkward. Besides, a direct translation is about as awkward as it gets.

I, for one, prefer reading material in its original language.

Enjoy your inferior translations.

Useless thread that will momentarily devolve into a bunch of faggots making angry shouty noises at each other over how and how not to translate.

>>2980708
I prefer even electronic brain pancake crystal elderly.

Localizations and direct translations are both shit. Localizations always destroy the original meaning and replace it with shitty pop culture references where there was no such reference in the original to begin with (also known as the Working Designs Effect). As for direct translations...well, anyone who thinks babelfish is a viable translation method has a bright future at Aeria games.
The best translation method is an accurate translation. An accurate translation is neither a localization nor a direct translation because no pop culture references are added, the original meaning is retained, and you can actually understand what's being said. Despite what anyone says, it is very much possible to retain the vast majority of the original meaning when translating from one language to another, and no, it would not require mountains of footnotes from the translator.
Here is my favorite example. The Japanese idiom "gou ni itte wa gou ni shitagae" directly translates to "when in someone's native land, obey them." That sounds stupid and nonsensical in English...until you change it to the English equivalent "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." This translation is not localized or direct, and as such, it retains the original meaning of the phrase while not being confined to sticking word for word to the original.

>>2980767
But japanese honorifics are kakkoii ;_;

>>2980829
sugoi sugoi!

>>2980829
Su...sumi masen, anonymous-sama~

Direct translation usually, although well done localisations (such as Phoenix Wright) are acceptable. Especially true if the game is voiced. I've been playing Riveria as of late and the sometimes massive disparity between what the English text displays and what they're actually saying keeps messing with my mind.

>>2980829
Desho?

>>2980799
>translating a well-known Japanese saying into a well-known English saying with more or less the same meaning
no, I'm pretty sure that's what's called "localization"

100% direct translations

>>2980857

Not really. Localization is changing stuff that doesn't need to be changed, such as character names, yen to dollars, etc. I suppose changing idioms is a kind of localization, but it's also clearly an effort at translating the original meaning into another language.

>>2980845
This reminds me of Eve Burst Error. I guess they even cut the hentai out of it.

Why are kisama so baka? Anata make me hazukashi to be your tomo. >_>

I love it when someone argues against honorifics on the basis that an English speaker would not normally use them. That's ridiculous. Honorific titles do not have direct translations, and of course, we're not hearing/reading Japanese people speak. Translating is about getting the original across as best as possible. It is not about taking any semblance of the culture out of the work. That's barely acceptable when translated media for children.

It's not just like it is just with Japanese. When Nazi Germany set media is translated into English, for instance, it is common to keep in "Mein Führer". Directly translating it does not hold the same sentiment.

Honorifics mainly convey relationships, which may change over time; and setting/culture. They may be directly referenced because of that. It is common to see with foreign characters, or shows based on foreign settings, that they do not use honorifics to the same extent. This is about intent. Ignoring it's existence, or trying to translate it, takes away that intent.

It has nothing to do with being a bad translator or not. It's simply about the differences in languages and culture. No amount of skill can change that. Why would you want to anyway? I don't understand why some people lack the ability to appreciate other culture.

If you've read English novels based in Japanese settings such as Shogun and Memoirs of a Geisha, you'd see both are full of honorifics. Are James Clavell and Arthur Golden bad writers because of that? Or is it just that it's only acceptable to bastardize something though translation?

I love it when someone argues against honorifics on the basis that an English speaker would not normally use them. That's ridiculous. Honorific titles do not have direct translations, and of course, we're not hearing/reading Japanese people speak. Translating is about getting the original across as best as possible. It is not about taking any semblance of the culture out of the work. That's barely acceptable when translated media for children.

It's not just like it is just with Japanese. When Nazi Germany set media is translated into English, for instance, it is common to keep in "Mein Führer". Directly translating it does not hold the same sentiment.

Honorifics mainly convey relationships, which may change over time; and setting/culture. They may be directly referenced because of that. It is common to see with foreign characters, or media based on foreign settings, that they do not use honorifics to the same extent. This is about intent. Ignoring it's existence, or trying to translate it, takes away that intent.

It has nothing to do with being a bad translator or not. It's simply about the differences in languages and culture. No amount of skill can change that. Why would you want to anyway? I don't understand why some people lack the ability to appreciate other culture.

If you've read English novels based in Japanese settings such as Shogun and Memoirs of a Geisha, you'd see both are full of honorifics. Are James Clavell and Arthur Golden bad writers because of that? Or is it just that it's only acceptable to bastardize something though translation?

I'd say localizations because they come with less drama than fan translations, but considering there are still threads about Kazoku Keikaku being censored I guess I'm going to have to come up with another reason.

If I happen to know the Japanese word, I prefer that word be untranslated.

I know like 12 words in Japanese.

The only thing I hate is when they translate names as well. I mean wtf, you don't translate fucking names.

>>2981089
That's baka.

I prefer a natural translation. The word "localization" implies chaning onigiri into burgers or shit like that, that doesn't count. But I want the whole thing to be made into one hundred percent natural English, or whatever language you're translating it into, with no trace whatsoever left of the original language. That is what real translation is. Anything less is dildos.

>>2981089
hai, baka, gomen, kisama, konoyarou, sumimasen, kawaii, kowaii, kakkoii, iie, hajimashite, konnichiwa

>>2981089
Agreed. And it should be in kanji whenever I know the kanji.

>>2981127
No anonymous, you are the dildos

>>2981080
Yeah bro, it kinda ruins it for me when im fapping and the child calls me "brother" instead of onii-chan. I mean, what the fuck is that all about? Baka gaijin, im a kakkoii onii-chan, the equilevant of a kami-sama, if you will.

>>2981132
You forgot sugoi

>>2981098

I on the other hand love that shit. It's almost a fetish of mine.

The only problem is that not all names have a meaning.

YOU ARE THE WORST I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU EVEN IF YOU SAY THAT

>>2981140
You sure won me over with that post, Anonymous.

>>2981145
That's thirteen.

>>2981165
I know, but it has to take the place of one of those on the list.

>>2981098

You didn't like how insani translated Planetarian?

In 99% of cases when people translate something literally, it's just because they either don't know the actual meaning behind the words, or don't know how to say it properly in the new language. The objective of a translator is to translate the meaning, not the words.

Especially with a context-heavy language like Japan you should feel completely free to throw the original sentence right into garbage and write an entirely new one - one that says the same thing the way an English speaker would.

100% translations, even if it means reading notes.


If I wanted to read US erotica then I would buy erotica from the US. God forbid someone actually spend a little more time reading a note and learning the inside jokes in eroge culture.

I'm buying Japanese erotica and thus I want erotica in a Japanese fashion. What I don't want is the US version of Japanese erotica.

>>2981164
Of course i did. Im a kakkoii kami-sama, or did your baka gaijin ass forget all of a sudden? Im so sugoi that you cant even understand, baka.

If I want to read something that's exactly like the Japanese text, then I'll just read the Japanese text.

If I read it in English, I want it to flow like English, even if that means you have to change things around a bit.

as many said I'd also prefer an accurate translation to both babelfish like translation and to localization (ever tried to real tokyopop's Initial D? fuckin lame as hell) do dislike the whole: hey look at me I can say one word in japanese though (kawaii, ni/ne -chan -sama , kisama, teme , egao,baka .. well you know the works) scene it's just stupid and some sort of mistranslation as well

>>2981134
Yes. I don't know if you're being sarcastic, or if we agree in principle. I only know 2 kanji, the ones for woman and rape (thanks to that Shintaro Kago panel).
My point: what'd be a good translation for me wouldn't necessarily be a good translation for you.
There is no best translation for everyone.

>>2981245
Rationality? On MY /jp/? I'm about to deploy emergency mittens over here.

100% direct.

>>2981180
(Not the person you replied to)
At the time of reading I didn't know, so I didn't care. But now when we talk about the title here, there's two possible names to use. That's not a good situation. Reasons being confusion and potential for conversation to veer off topic.

>>2981245

There is a best translation for everybody who speaks the new language. You may like your shitty babelfish translations more, but that doesn't stop them from being objectively bad.

>>2981255

( ﾟ ヮﾟ)　ＭＩＴＯＮ ＧＡ ＳＵＫＩ！！！！

>>2981282
There's objective standards you can measure the quality of a translation by, but there's also many subjective ones.

>>2981282
>There is a best translation for everybody who speaks the new language.
Regardless of how much they know of the original language? What's your position on honourifics? What about nouns for uniquely Japanese physical objects?
>You may like your shitty babelfish translations more, but that doesn't stop them from being objectively bad.
By what standard? If it's English grammar, foreign nouns can fit in to local grammar pretty damn well.

>>2981315
>Regardless of how much they know of the original language?

Absolutely. A perfect translation makes it impossible to even know what the original language was. There is no human thought or action that cannot be expressed in every human language.

Honorifics should definitely never ever be used, not ever (unless you're translating something _into_ Japanese in which case they should be added in). This is because languages that don't have them convey the same thought in some other fashion.

Everybody should learn Lojban.

>>2981358
>>A perfect translation makes it impossible to even know what the original language was.

Why would you want that?

>>2981282
>that doesn't stop them from being objectively bad.
>objectively bad
You are a fucking idiot.
>>2981358
A perfect translation would be as if the author was actually a native of that language and had written the story in that language. The problem is that we translate so that every line in the original is in the translated work, when many things would have been changed around, removed, or added if it had been originally written in a different language in order to express the same thing, something we can't do in a translation without diluting the original author's work. As such, translations are necessarily imperfect unless done by the original author, and even then, there would mostlikely be differences, especially if the author was more skilled in one language than the other.

>>2981414
Why wouldn't you?

>>2981432
Because what benefit is there to me of such a translation?

>>2981436
What benefit would any other kind of translation have for you?

僕には翻訳とかは必要ない。元の日本語は十分。

>>2981446
The ability to understand it? I'm saying what's the benefit of a translation that makes it impossible to know what the original language is? How is that better than a translation that doesn't do it? Where is the idea that you need to mask the source material coming from?

>>2981255
>>2981285
It's like I'm really posting in a VIP quality thread!

Direct translation. If you're trying to mask the fact that the product is from Japan (or whatever country) then you are doing something wrong. I don't like translators who assume that I'm an ignorant American who can't handle foreign cultures.

And why are people saying that the Phoenix Wright localization was good? Changing Maya's favorite food to hamburgers for no reason and adding 4chan memes isn't my idea of good.

localizations

you aren't exactly missing out on Shakespeare, people. japanese writing is almost always basic and bland.

What the fuck at people saying 100% direct translations.

Do they think that the word "I" should be left as watashi/boku/etc instead of being translated to "I"?

>>2981483
OMG 4chan memes in a manga? epin.

>>2981524
Manga?

>>2981458
>>2981483

It's meant to convey exactly what the foreign text said in YOUR language. That means no such "translations" as "Kyon-kun's imouto is so kawaii!". Otaking might be a faggot but he has a point.

>>2981542
Yes, there are no honorifics in any other language, mein Herr Anonymous.

>>2981542
Way to choose the extreme. Who would want translations like that? "Kyon-kun's little sister is so cute!" however, I don't see a problem with.

>>2981565
But then why does "kun" need to stay?

>>2981574
Since ''Kyon'' is a japanese name, it sound better with the -kun.

>>2981563

Anrede != Anredesuffix

>>2981574
Well in this case it doesn't. Honorifics are important at times though.

op hear, found a cool site yo
http://www.Anom - m + nTalk.com/
dhfdgbehfidkfddvdh jshhfb nm igddf54shrxsx fxdyf4 dc

>>2981574
What would you translate it to?

I, for one, want a complete mirror conversion! Whenever a character says, konnichiwa, you shall use hello and when the character says hello, you shall use konnichiwa! If the character uses guten tag, you'll use bonjour and vice versa!

Translation will suffice, thank you. I wouldn't be indulging in Japanese media if I wasn't interested in Japanese culture. I don't need that shit to be westernized, just put it in a language I can understand.

100% direct translations, with TL notes and honorifics.

>>2981624
konnichiwa doesn't literally mean "hello", though

"good day" is more accurate

>>2981574
If there is voice acting, it says ''Kyon-kun''.

>>2981646
if there is voice acting, there's a lot of shit that doesn't make it in the subtitles

because it's in Japanese

>>2981645
Then what will be the mirror of 'Salam aleikum'?

>>2981645
But then how would we translate gokigenyou?

>>2981645
I was under the mpresson that it meant 'Good Afternoon'

>>2981666

She calls him "Kyon-kun", not him "Kyon". This is a title that's essentially apart of his name. It's not just a random Japanese word one would leave untranslated, and it holds significance to the setting of modern Japan.

@ this thread:
If you think overly weeaboo "translations" like what Atlus did with Persona 4 represent a gold standard for professional localization, you need to take off your headband, put down that Pocky and go back to /a/, because they all think the same way you do.

When you translate literally, rather than according to context =, you get such wonderful lines as "people die when they are killed," or translations like the one in my picture.

You will never be Japanese, sorry.

>>2981789
I don't care how fucking good or shit it's translated.

If I can understand it, it's good enough for me.

>>2981789
At least come up with some new trolling material.

>>2981789
Is there really something wrong with ''People die when they are killed''?

>>2981789
Just as keikaku doori

>>2981789
But people do die when they're killed.

Be a man, learn Japanese by playing raw eroges.

>>2981831
Yes, it's tautological.

>>2981789
Cool straw man, bro.

>>2981863
But are you sure that its any better in the original japanese text? ''People die when they are killed'' fits well in the part where its said.

>>2981863
I believe he meant as a translation. It's not the translator's job to rewrite a line that was poorly written in the original text.

>>2981895
It's an idiomatic expression in the original text, not sloppy writing.

>>2981907
Even then, the translator should not ''fix'' it.
It fits Shirou anyways since he is really stupid.

>>2981923
But in this case a literal translation doesn't convey the meaning well at all. That's what translation is for, to convey the meaning in another language. A literal translation effectively changes the meaning of the sentence.

>>2981934
Actually idioms are usually left in literal terms with a short explanation if they are unfamiliar to most English speakers. You're trying too hard to be anti-weeaboo, you wouldn't be complaining if the same thing happened in a professional translation of a book.

>>2981934
How so? In my opinion, its good enough. While the meaning is stupid, it works well enough.
Shirou meant that if you kill a human being it will die and that he should not break that rule by surviving even if he ''is killed''.

>>2981923
No, it should be.
>It fits Shirou anyways since he is really stupid.
You justify changing the meaning of the text simply because it fits your own conception of a character? That really is the worst possible thing a translator can do to a work. Shirou right here is altering a well known expression slightly to make his point, and in a fairly sensible way. The translation fails to do this entirely. I could come up with a better translation in about 5 seconds. Like "Even if your legend lives on after you, you'll still be dead.". There's probably a lot better you could make, but "People die when they are killed"? What were the translators thinking?

>>2981948
Umm, no they're not. Do you read foreign literature? The standard in professional translation is to translate the meaning if the idiom doesn't make sense when translated literally.

>>2981954
Good enough? Fine, settle with substandard translation. Just know that the original meaning was not conveyed properly.

>>2981954
>While the meaning is stupid

This is why it's a problem - that scene wasn't supposed to make people think Shirou was mentally challenged. A Jap reading that same line would not think "OH WOW CAPTAIN OBVIOUS," it's just that because the translators chose to try and give that line literally, it added a subtext (durr Shirou R dumb) which didn't exist in the original.

You complain that localization arbitrarily adds meanings which weren't there to begin with, but this example is proof that "direct translation" is just as bad an offender.

>Shirou meant that if you kill a human being it will die and that he should not break that rule by surviving even if he ''is killed''.

So why wasn't the line translated that way?

>>2981948
>you wouldn't be complaining if the same thing happened in a professional translation of a book.

Such things don't happen in professional translations of books or movies. When do you ever see translator's notes like this picture in mainstream media?

op hear, found a cool site yo
http://www.Anom - m + nTalk.com/
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>>2981989
That is not direct translation. The lazy job they did in FSN would be a literal translation.

>>2981989
>When do you ever see translator's notes like this picture in mainstream media?
Never, because mainstream media is almost always in english.

Keeping honorifics is arbitrary bullshit. Honorifics are just one piece of Japanese that shows the relationships between two characters (or the personality of one), some other examples including pronouns and plain/polite speech.

>>2982011
Nice attempt to skirt around the issue. Show me a professionally subtitled movie that has translators notes like that.

>>2982011
and in those cases, if you actually purchase the dvd (or whatever it is) it usually comes with a tiny booklet that has all the tl;dr translator notes that explain everything.

So while they aren't on screen, they usually actually are included in mainstream media via another medium alongside it.

>>2981977
>Do you read foreign literature?
I do, and I can't remember how many times I've seen foreign idioms explained via footnotes. Part of reading literature from other cultures is learning about that culture, including idioms they use. That's part of the reason people read foreign literature, and it's only viewed as unacceptable for Japanese media because of the weeaboo stigma.

>>2982039
Seriously? I never see it, and most books I read are translations. Care to find an example? Also, people don't read fiction to learn about other cultures.

I think the main problem you guys have is that you all have different ideas of what "localization" and "direct translations" mean.

Though I'm not sure how many of you have seen it, if I got subs like the ones LoGH had with all of my media, I'd be happy.

>>2982052
Well religious texts are usually full of them. Some specific examples I can recall are the Tale of Genji and Journey to the West, although I couldn't tell you which translations I read.

>Also, people don't read fiction to learn about other cultures.
If that were true their wouldn't be any classes devoted to World literature or literature from specific cultures.

>>2982076
Unprofessional germanophile shit for leaving terms like Kaiser and Fraulein untranslated.

100% direct translation.

But for some reason I still have a soft spot for Working Designs' shitty localizations from way back when. I think it's only the nostalgia factor because the localizations did kinda suck.

>>2982153

Everyone knows what those mean, though

>>2982896
Working Designs localizations were fucking awesome. ;_;

>>2983245
And everyone interested in Japanese media knows what Japanese honorifics mean.

>>2983273
Still unprofessional, assumptive and can even look unappealing. But I can read runes, so I don't care.

>>2983297
But it's ok when they do it with German honorifics? Cool double standards.

>>2982896
>>2983254
>>Working Designs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLgK3ZHgNxQ

You tell me!

I loved WD though. Sure they were corny at times, but they put heart into translating games during a time when few companies actually cared about that stuff.

>>2983310
Not the guy you were arguing with.
All kinds of honorifics are stupid.
Exception is if the foreign terms are used as such in the original text (aka, in English text, people calling Kaiser etc)

>>2981140
This point is moot.

Most eroges have voice actor. You fap to the voice not to the text that pop up. You guys supporting direct translations are just as bad as the cirno is so baka XD kawaii desu ne crowd.

>>2983359
Speak for yourself

>>2983311

Plus WD had the best pack-in swag.

>>2983324
Actually I wasn't arguing with anyone, in fact I was the one who (sarcastically) posted >>2982153. I was just wondering why you only responded to my post and not >>2983245.

>Exception is if the foreign terms are used as such in the original text (aka, in English text, people calling Kaiser etc)
That doesn't make sense.

>>2983359
You must not read a lot of smut. Text can be just as arousing as sound.

LOOK AT THAT FUCKING CAKE.

GODDAMN THAT FUCKING CAKE IS OFF THE CHARTS.

We have faggot japanophiles insisting on not translating Japanese words simply because they think they can't preserve the same meaning in English terms, and also because HURRR DURR JAPANESE WORDS TOO BEAUTIFUL TO BE REPLACED.

I mean, it's not impossible to refer to a elder or a mistress without resorting to the phrase "Ojo-sama". There's always "Miss" and "Madam" which is very widely acceptable in everyday English use. The same goes for "Oni-chan", replaced with "Sis", and "Ryota-san" becomes "Mr. Ryota".

>>2983717
I meant Onee-chan as Brother, but whatever.

>>2983728
What?

>>2983717
>>2983728

Oh, you.

Dat cake.

<==== direct translation resulting in pics

>>2983717
>faggot japanophiles
>/jp/
What a surprise.

>>2980652
Oh my god, that looks so delicious. Why would you start a thread with that picture you monster?!

localization means donuts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPGdIH0jFZU

Straight from Wikipedia to you, /jp/~

>>2983717

And the problem is that people against it seem to always resort to the "you're a Japanohpile" ad-hominem argument.

>"Ryota-san" becomes "Mr. Ryota".

Do you honestly think high school students referring to each other as "mr./ms." works? Does -san hold anywhere near the same feeling in that situation? Or what about -chan and -kun and their variations? How are they supposed to be translated?

Why does it need to be translated? Simply because it's not English? That's ridiculous. I think it's funny that you would imply that they are putting Japanese on a pedestal when you're doing the exact same thing with English. It is common, in professional works even to keep in certain words/titles due to the sentiment they hold. Not just with Japanese, but with other languages a well. You will find honorifics and words in Japanese translated novels, or even Western written novels that just take place in Japan. Not everything smoothly converts into English. There will always be a cultural barrier. It should not be a situation where translators are translating for the sake of translating, to the point where it detriments the work and intent of the original. They should not be trying to deculturalize it.

When I watch something that takes place in medieval times, I expect a little Old English. It simply helps convey the setting and make it feel more real. I wouldn't want them speaking as if they're from Southern California or Mississippi. It works similarly with anime, games, and manga. Of course nobody is asking that a translator go as far as to keep Japanese syntax intact or Japanese words for no reason at all, but I don't understand why, when it comes to translations of Japanese media, some people are so intent on making it as Western as possible. It should be about making it as close to the original('s intent) as possible.

If it takes place or is based on Japan, 100% direct translations(most VNs).

If not, localizing it to the accurate culture is alright, I guess, as long as you don't change too much.

Localization. I'm not a weeaboo, so I don't understand Japanese pop culture shit even if the references are written/spoken in English.

Fuck you TV-Nihon.

The only localization to be done should be localization that makes things flow well in English. Nothing more.

>>2983984
>It is common, in professional works even to keep in certain words/titles due to the sentiment they hold.
Like how you wouldn't translate the word "fuhrer" from German.

>>2983984
>>2983984
>>2983984
>>2983984
>>2983984
>>2983984

>>2980652
I can deal with both but I like localization better. Just because I don't like the repetition of Japanese culture, and reading things like "I can't approve of you" or "I won't forgive you" constantly is annoying. Can't someone translate that into something more powerful? Direct translation says no.

This reminds me of that part in Saya no Uta where Kouji (may not be right) walks into the protag's house. There was a bit about "He does not even take off his shoes, he's here for business"
I had to laugh.

Do both "Oni-chan" and "Aniki" become brother?

It is an embarrassing problem.

>>2983984
Sure is butthurt in here.

>>2984131
Agreed. Doing shit like completely changing points so the entire context is changed is just stupid and pretty much what most American remakes of foreign films do.

I don't mind honorifics, but only if it was a Japanese setting to begin with.

>>2984235
Honorifics are fine, but I still hate 100% direct translations. Sentences that make no grammatical sense ruin the whole thing for me.

Localizations is the only way.

>>2980700
Basically, this. But I prefer more "context based" localization.

Phoenix Wright is better localized because:
a. As a stupid gaijin, remembering a shit ton of Japanese names is hard.
b. As part of the above, I won't get the jokes inherent in the names. Luke Atmey, however, is a funny name.
c. The culture of Phoenix Wright is not blatantly Japanese. There are few instances where it couldn't really be set in California like it almost claims.

So, play it by ear.

>>2983984
>>Do you honestly think high school students referring to each other as "mr./ms." works?
Of course not. No one said it should be translated as such. Nice straw man.

>>How are they supposed to be translated?
Easy. Call them by their first names.

>>Why does it need to be translated?
Why does a translation need to be translated? C'mon, try harder.

>>It is common, in professional works even to keep in certain words/titles due to the sentiment they hold. Not just with Japanese, but with other languages a well. You will find honorifics and words in Japanese translated novels, or even Western written novels that just take place in Japan.
This is the difference between "dynamic equivalence" and "formal equivalence". The former puts an emphasis on readability while the latter puts an emphasis on literal meaning. Using which one is dependent on your purpose. For most fictional literature, readability is more important than literal meaning. For contract agreements, vice versa.

If a translation is filled footnotes explaining untranslated text, it's quite obvious that the translation is hardly meant for ACCESSIBILITY, but more as a scholarly work. I can see why translators of old texts might opt for this.

Please find me a modern example, something like a Haruki Murakami translation with -san's and -kun's, because I haven't seen any. Speaking of which, in Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World, one part of the story is narrated with the personal "boku" while the other with the more impersonal "watashi". The translator opted to use present tense with the "boku" part while he used past tense for the "watashi" part.

Now this is an example of a good translator is.

>>2985475

>>It should not be a situation where translators are translating for the sake of translating, to the point where it detriments the work and INTENT of the original.
This is exactly why a direct translation should not be used.

>>They should not be trying to deculturalize it.
Translation IS deculturization.

>>When I watch something that takes place in medieval times, I expect a little Old English.
When I watch something that takes place in medieval Japan, I expect a little Old English too.

>>It simply helps convey the setting and make it feel more real.
In this case, you should watch it raw.

>> I wouldn't want them speaking as if they're from Southern California or Mississippi.
Neither would I. What are you getting at again?

>>It should be about making it as close to the original('s intent) as possible.
I agree. And that's why dynamic equivalence should be used.

>>2985475
I forgot to add something. Japanese people know what "Mr." and "Mrs." is because they learn English in school. Which English speaking country makes Japanese a mandatory part of education?

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0285C4D5A017C6CF

Watch this and be enlightened.

Actually, when I wrote Ryota-san I was addressing to typical conversations in a workplace. For coworkers to address each other with respect it is acceptable to use "Mister" instead of retaining the "-san" in their name.

It still comes down to translators being tempted to NOT replace seemingly "obvious" Japanese words, in some illogical intent of making the translated result sound more "real".

Why use kitsune instead of fox?
Why use neko instead of cat?
Why use bento instead of lunchbox?
Why use dango instead of dumpling?
Why use baka instead of idiot?
Why use hentai instead of pervert?
Why use ojo-sama instead of milady?
Why use sensei instead of master?
Why use fuku instead of uniforms?
Why use tankubon instead of paperbacks?
Why use manga instead of comics (Yes people, the Japs DON'T designate their comics by a unique category)?

Of course some words are better left alone. it would be strange to translate samurai as knights, for example. But for the list of words above it is best to translate them directly to English.

Like some other Anon said, if I want a 100% Japanese context I better read it raw.

>>2984212
>Do both "Oni-chan" and "Aniki" become brother?

Oni-chan - brother.

Aniki - bro.

Problem solved. Not hard.

>When I watch something that takes place in medieval times, I expect a little Old English.
ic i forewyrde

>>2985533

I find your ideas interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

>>2985654

>>2985828
>sugoi monogotari aniki.

See how bad this turn out if you guys want 100% direct translations.

Part of what made Suikoden II the best game in the world is the awesome localized script. I'm not sure how accurate it is, neither do I care, but the writing just seems natural and believable. And that's how it should be.

Not that I really MIND watching stuff like Azumanga full of "translator's notes" and stuff, that sort of thing works better that way.

>176 posts and 10 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
Good work men.

About 90% direct translation, 10% localization.