/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Unlike Shirou and Shinji, he's a man.

>without any fucking magic
what

Well he is enhanced by caster.

>>2874797

Only thing he has is a durability spell on his fists.

>>2874799
And once that goes out Archer disposes of him instantly.

Martial arts are like magic, only without bullshit, so it's okay.

He is the Servant.

>>2874790

butthurt

He can't beat Servants in a general fight.

He only caught Saber off-guard (HE CAUGHT MY INVISIBLE SWORD? WHAT THE BALLS oh god I'm being punched it seems). Archer saw right through him, as would anyone else with Mind's Eye (Fake OR True).
It's because Saber expected a dodged attack to not be able to turn around and strike again. Even after she learned that, the story openly says Saber would be able to fight it off.

>>2874790
Please don't misuse Mary Sue like that, it's very annoying.

>>2874810

I forgot the last part of my post, where the pic comes in.

Also, the story has already made it canon that at the absolute peak of skill can an average human fight with Servants in basic combat. Kojirou proves that.

Thats how you deal real damage

>>2874790
>SUPER KARATE
He doesn't actually KNOW karate,
it's just that casters hax powers allows him to do whatever the fuck he wants.

>>2874799
'Strengthened'.
That does not make them just 'hard', if that was the case, give him steel gloves.
He shatters Shirou's swords for fuck sake.

>>2874824

No, he IS a martial artist assassin.

Ironic that Caster summoned "Assassin" that was also a master of personal combat.

Caster only Strengthened his fists, by the way. No speed boost or range boost.

>>2874828
Strengthening makes things function better in overall (Rim Strengthening her legs can land from the second story window easily or run 100 meters in 7 seconds).

His fists(hands in overall probably) are faster, stronger and harder.

Who killed Rider in UBW? Wasn't it Kuzuki?

>>2874828
I have only read the fate route.
Why does he has assassin-like powers?
That would be an awesome teacher to have.

>>2874828
I have only read the fate route.
Why does he have assassin powers?
That would be an awesome teacher to have.

I wonder what happened to him in Fate.

>>2874835

I do not believe they were made faster. Strengthening only seems to make the item enchanted more powerful offensively and defensively, as well as gaining the 'magical' attribute.

>>2874839
Yep. Shinji is held 'hostage', Kuzuki crashes the neck.
>>2874841
Raised by an organization to be a hitman. Relying only on fists would make him undetectable(compared to carrying a lot of shit like guns, bows or swords).

>>2874842

Caster died, he was at school probably and because of Riders drain field in Hospital.
Or just at home

>>2874841

He was raised as an assassin, simple and plain. However, he only went on a single mission, to Fuyuki, and after he finished it he simply continued to use his "cover identity" as a real one.

>>2874842

Since Caster was dicking around and died by herself, he lives in Fuyuki as a teacher like he planned.

>>2874841
He was trained to become a killer since childhood in the forests.

>>2874839
Yes, Kuzuki-sensei blasted her head off.

>>2874844
Strengthening increases attributes overall.
So in the case of muscles and limbs, being enhanced WOULD include speed.
Just making fists hard and effective against spirit beings does NOT allow you to override Saber's insticts, throw 45 kilos like a fastball or crush Archer's swords(even projected bu Shirou).

Bazzete's strengthening makes her 'fists' fly much faster too, for example.

>>2874858

>Just making fists hard and effective against spirit beings does NOT allow you to override Saber's insticts, throw 45 kilos like a fastball or crush Archer's swords(even projected bu Shirou).

Actually, it would.

Saber was thrown off by his technique ("snake" biting even when it missed), and weights and sword smashing would just require sheer power.

All it means are his Strengthened fists are equivalent to a C rank Noble Phantasm or higher offensively and his technique is crazy.
It also explains why he was afraid of not winning in the first strike, because Saber would be able to contend once she knew that a strange technique was all he had (and not speed to ACTUALLY match with Servants).

>>2874871

To explain why Saber's Instinct rank A would falter...

The way it seems to work is an activation when something is off. I.e., a seemingly normal attack with tremendous power behind it, or an apparent single attack that is actually multiple attacks.
However, Kuzuki's method was actually one attack of expected power, that only activates when it's past her (both physical and mental) guard. As such, Mind's Eye (True or Fake) would trump it.

That's the main difference between Instinct and Mind's Eye, which are both similar. One is for unexpected, the other is for the unknown.

>>2874871
He would not have the speed of matching servants, but as I explained, strengthening improves overall attributes and not just making it harder, especially when it comes to the human body. I doubt Caster would just do the equivalent of 'here, wear magical boxing gloves'.
It's more consistent with other examples of strengthening and explains his feats better too.
If you want to insist that this guy wears steel gloves+1 and just with that can do what he does, go ahead, but it's kinda icky.

>>2874889

I'm just saying, skill has been proven to allow not-Servants to fight with Servants.

Hell, it's Fake Assassin's entire shtick.

Why shouldn't skill entirely in the category of "catching someone off guard" not be able to catch a Servant off-guard, if it's high enough?

>>2874898

Speaking of, Kuzuki should get a stat for that in the non-existent tabletop RPG.

"Sneak Attack rank B - able to supplement one attack where the opponent gets no saving throw per battle
(Not usable on enemies with Mind's Eye)"

>>2874898
Except this guy, took his skill to such a fucking level, he CHEATS CAUSALITY.
There is skill, and THERE IS SKILL.
I mean, you have the skill and feats of Kuzuki, but think what the fuck Kotomine can do.

Kuzuki has the weird style and element of surprise plus enhancement to be more ffective, but then you see physical feats from people like Kirei, Ciel, Ryougi etc.

>>2874898
Assassin is a Servant even though he's not a true heroic spirit and doesn't have a noble phantasm.

>>2874909

Well, Kirei was trained to fight against Magi (and their Familiars) and Vampires and etc. Not quite Heroic Spirits, but still.
Ciel has been stated to be able to "hold her own" against a Servant of average stats (we'll assume that means C rank everything).
Ryougi is a user of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

All of Kuzuki's skills are designed to be able to attack a person ONCE and only ONCE without them knowing what exactly killed them. He's completely worthless otherwise, regarding Servants.

>>2874913

He's not a Servant. Servants are Heroic Spirits bound to the Holy Grail.

He's just a Wraith Familiar bound to a mountain which the Holy Grail happens to be under.

>>2874915
All this is true, but it does not prove or disprove the extent of Caster's enhancement or how Kuzuki would normally fare.

Of course, it has no bearing in the story, since in this case what matters is the result and the basic mechanics that wrought it, but yeah, the obvious statement we can make is that Kuzuki is more of a one-time weapon.

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>>2874918
In that case, why did the grail war take place in Fate and UBW when one of the seven servants was never summoned?

>>2874940

（´・ω・｀）

>>2874940
Already an archer left over?

>>2874947
Shouldn't there be a servant of each class though?

If Gil counted, then Rin shouldn't have been able to summon a second Archer.

You just need the three knight classes for sure and you can get a bunch of irregular shit for the rest

>>2874940
Cause while he is not truly a Servant, he took the place of one.
The grail is not especially keen on fixing mistakes(as you can see in various cases), so once he took the seat, it didn't really fucking care.

>>2874950

There was an error before, there can be an error again.

Wait, where are you guys getting this "Gil counted as the 7th servant" stuff? I've never heard of this before, and I though myself well read on the subject.

>>2874950
Considering the Wish Granting grail, even before it's corruption can do shit like Summoning an 'Avanger', and with the system NOT working properly once since it's conception, you should not really wonder that there are irregularities.

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>>2874918
He's still a Servant until Nasu himself redefines him.

>>2874969
He doesn't.
He is just a leftover.

>>2874790

Gary Stu aka Proto Shiki.

>>2874974

He's already said he is not a Heroic Spirit, instead "he is more like a wraith".

Since the base clause of Servants are "summoned Heroic Spirits", he is automatically banned from the server.

>>2874977
Nasu has said that Kuzuki could kill Shiki.

>>2874983
Hassan is a wraith, too.

>>2874977

>>2874984
So, by extension Kuzuki can kill servants.
Discuss.

>>2874983
Kojirou is an improper Servant, but still a Servant.

>>2874997

Well, he did kill Rider.

>>2874984
I really do not remember this specifically mentioned anywhere, not on /jp/ nor on the various archives/fansites that have such interviews.

>>2874997
We know that.

>>2875000

Yeah but that was when Shinji was her Master. Every Servant would die to anyone when used by Shinji

If Rider has real mana available she can even fight Dark Saber

>>2874987

And Hassan-i Sabbah is considered the most odd-one-out of the entire Holy Grail War.
Have you ever noticed there are very, very, VERY few candidates for being Assassin? Assassins are not Heroi by nature. Why he was even needed to be thrown into the Holy Grail War, only Einsbern knows.

>>2874998

Fine, he was a Servant, whatever. He was not a HEROIC SPIRIT, the ultimate fighting power of human's history.

>>2875016
* with Shirou's help

>>2875023

* with Ajax's help

>>2875005
I had a look and I couldn't find it in the Fuyuki wiki. I must have misrememberd.

>>2875016
It had nothing to do with Mana. Caster trapped Shinji, Rider stood like a lamb to the slaughter.
>>2875020
Heroic spirits are not chosen solely by their power, but earn the status through their achievements and praise.
'Kojiroh' did nothing on his life then train and hone his skill on his own, thus was not known or ever did anything to earn the status.

>>2875035
Well, it's okay.
After all, a random guy with a grenade can kill Shiki.
Skill wise, hard to guess as of now.

>>2875040
GRENADA

>>2875020
>Heroi
If you are trying to imitate the Greek spelling you should write it as "Heroes".

>>2875036
Kojirou did nothing in his life, period. He didn't exist.

>>2875048
Notice that I said 'Kojiroh'.
The guy who stands in front of you and pretends to be him existed.
'Sasaki kojiroh', whether he actually existed or not is irrelevant.
This guy who has adequate sword skills and fills a few of the traits was summoned, and pretends to be him.
And THIS guy, whoever he was, mastered the sword in his lifetime, but obviously never became famous or a hero.

>>2875036

Actually, Heroic Spirits are chosen by people and the world and are exalted into a position of kickassery by magic.
Except for rare true badasses like Alexander the Great.
Basically, if they were legendary, they were granted the position more than earning it.
Another exception might be Gilgamesh, who started the ideal of heroes in the first place.

>>2874904

There is a tabletop rpg book for the nasuverse, but a fan made it (not Nasu himself). It's not a commercial product.

>>2875060

As such, he is not a Heroic Spirit and doesn't have the miracles of the world at his back.

So pure, raw, overflowing skill allows one to match those chosen by ALL OF HUMANITY('s subconscious) to be their saviors.

>>2875071
Technically Emiya isn't a heroic spirit either, but he's still a Servant.

>>2875065
Where is this rpg?

>>2875071
That's why Assassin is badass.
A guy with no miracles, protection, special weapons or whatnot, with purely his skill in the sword and the help of stairs, can push back ANY servant, make Lancer who had no issue fighting bot Archer and Saber defensively exclaim 'I'd rather not fight the guy', fight Saber with EXCALIBUR and lose due to his blade bending, CHEAT MOTHERUFUCKING causality and look cool all the while.

Sure, ranged attacks and beams, and even throwing magical oil and starting a magical fire would kill him, but he is still awesome.

>>2875076
He achieved a miracle, he earned the right.
He just got drafted as a CG due to his deal.

>>2875076

He was actually chosen (or rather bargained with) the world, though, so he has SUPER MAGIC backing his existence outside of time.

Sasaki Kojirou cannot be summoned more than once. His wandering wraith soul does not exist out of time to be copied, like those who sit in the Throne of Heroes.

>>2875084
>ranged attacks and beams, and even throwing magical oil and starting a magical fire
He should try cutting them.

>>2875076
In the future he saves many people and kills Terrorists. So i bet he must be famous, a real Future hero.

>>2875084
So Caster could beat him since he cant do shit at range

>>2875084

Hey, I never said Assassin wasn't awesome.

>>2875091

The dude is not Shiki. Cutting shit will not make it disappear.

>>2875084
The only reason he's a threat is because he's in a position where he can't be outflanked and other Servants happen not to be able/willing to use ranged attacks. Otherwise he'd barely qualify as a speed bump.

>>2875096
If he was close he would win. If Caster was far away she would win.

>>2875096

CASTER SUMMONED THE BLOODY GUY

... I wish she'd take better care of him though.

>>2875094
No. Emiya is always misunderstood and never admired. In the end he's scapegoated and executed without ever being considered a hero. Why do you think he's so bitter?

>>2875102

Well yeah, he's only a doorway for Caster's Temple.

It just illustrates that cutting out the miracles of the Noble Phantasms, pure fighting skill can match Heroic Spirits.

To relate to the original topic, I use said argument that Kuzuki can catch even Saber off guard.

>>2875108
Not so much that, since he accepted what happened in his life, as much as the afterlife going 'HA you'd think your wish of saving people would be granted now? POOP' and then shat on his ideal, teared it to pieces and flaunted on him, while forcing him to become a human cleaner.

>>2875106
>... I wish she'd take better care of him though.
If you know what I mean

>>2875115
Elaborate.

>>2875120
Making him a scarf/

>>2875120
by giving him extra mana, of course. Rin tought me that and she cares for me.

>>2875145
>rin
>cares for shirou
snickeringelvenyouth.png

>>2875328
Sorry, your witty-wannabe comment can't reach us all the way to London where we live a rewarding life caring for each other.

>>2875341
>(NOT CANON)

>>2875357
Yes, one of the endings of the three routes that detail the story of our lead is not canon.
Smart, smart boy.
And if you want to play continuity card, then the only thing that makes sense is that NONE is canon or all are as standalone routes.

>>2875370
>(F/SN NEVER HAPPENED)

>>2875341
Please. Shirou is more likely living as her butler.

>>2875401
And your point is...?

>2875081
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T2OYSHZJ

>>2875076
How the fuck would you know that?