/jp/ - Otaku Culture

But I'm pansexual, as is all Anon.

Thanks for the info bro. I'll start doing this for everything.

>Simple litmus test, kids: Ask yourself, "Would I have interest in this game/show/book, etc if all the characters were male?"

>If it's a show with even the slightest bit of merit, then the answer is yes.

What if it's Hetalia?

>"Would I have interest in this game/show/book, etc if all the characters were male?"
Of course. In fact, companies should make two versions of the show, one with all girls and one with all males. In the end, it's the character interaction that I like. It'll be cute people doing cute things and that's just gravy unless you're one of those people who think only girls can be cute. If that's the case, shame on you.

Would all the male characters be cute? Then yes.

>>2873478
What a fucking stupid post. Do you look for "other redeeming qualities" when you look at porn?

>Twilight readers and yaoi fangirls

yo op fuck you you a h8ter dun h8 a preci8te

>>2873489
No idea what that is. But I'll give an example of what I mean.

Let's take Berserk as an example. If Schierke and Farnesse were male, as much as I would be disappointed, I'd still read it. But how about something like K-ON, Lucky Star or other such garbage? I guarantee that the majority of "people" who liked those shows wouldn't give it even a second of their time if the cast was male. This is proof that they suck.

Female/Male has nothing to do with moe so your test is stupid.

>>2873478
What if Rance was female and her conquests are males?

Katawa Shounen.

A girl attracted to the qualities personified by disabled young boys

So... all the characters are traps? I'd be even more interested in it.

>>2873508
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2LhKmsy_M0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Ee04NFf74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I813drN6nI0

In just seconds with google, I prove you wrong.

>>2873508
Hetalia is that anthropomorphised shota show. Also, a proof based on a hypothetical situation soaked in opinion?

>>2873512
Sounds like a good game.

>>2873508
Interesting. So one cannot enjoy a show simply because they're attracted to the characters in it? And such shows inherently suck?
What about yuri shows? Turn the girls all into boys and most of us wouldn't watch them.

Im a man
I like moe stuff and I acknowledge what you said
I love lolis 2d and 3d
but I also like serious stuff


I also find Kaiji and some characters from Akagi quite moe even though theyre all men
genuine moe?

>>2873522
Those look more like flat chested girls with short hair (gee, I wonder why people liked it) than men. Allow me to clarify what I meant earlier; when I refer to a character being male, I mean in the sense of being clearly male (like Jotaro Kujo or Kenshiro) rather than androgynous (hence, no traps).

>>2873545
Well you asked for clearly male.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLRCCmQjMc

ITT we realize why moe is made to SHOCK appeal to some people and that SHOCK people will watch what appeals to them

If you take out the female factor out of anything I like, I still think I'd enjoy it. Much how I think I'd still like certain eroge if their sex scenes were taken out (effectively making them a normal visual novel). Also, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one on /jp/ that happens to like Hetalia.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd like to see a show in a similar fashion of K-ON! or Lucky Star, except be a group of four male socially awkward NEETs and/or hikkikomori.

>>2873538
>Interesting. So one cannot enjoy a show simply because they're attracted to the characters in it?

What I'm saying is that you can and should enjoy the characters, but there should be other reasons aside from that. Umineko is a reasonable example; people like the characters but in many cases, said characters aren't the sole reason for reading it.

>And such shows inherently suck? What about yuri shows? Turn the girls all into boys and most of us wouldn't watch them.

Yes, this is precisely the point I was making. The sorts of shows you're describing are basically Twilight for men and deserve similar disdain.

I watch moe anime because I like moe anime. It doesn't matter to me if moe is all it has. Why should it?

>>2873545

read this>>2873542

>>2873545
Okay, now you're just being incredibly specific with your fetishes. So you want to take any regular moe show and replace all of the girls with manlymanly macho men? Well, guess what? That actually sounds like a fun show. If they keep it in character with the 'manly characters for manly men like myself', but keep the cuteness, I would love the hell out of it. Hell, screw that and just replace every character in Lucky Star with a hulking monstrosity and it'll probably be much better.

>>2873561
Did you read the responses? They're quite different from the previous video, to say the least. If anything, they prove my point.

>>2873561
>I watch moe anime because I like moe anime. It doesn't matter to me if moe is all it has. Why should it?

Because people such as yourself make such shows financially successful, which is why we keep getting more of the same, terrible garbage. I'm not an enemy of moe, but I think if more media took the approach something like Tsukihime did (in which it was a part of a whole), it'd make for a more interesting experience. I guess if you just want a proxy for human interaction/masturbatory aid, that doesn't matter to you, though.

>>2873587
Well, I'm glad to hear that. But let me ask you, do you think said shows would achieve the same level of popularity and fiscal success if you did that?

That's the question I was posing earlier.

>>2873551
>>2873551
That fucking shit is awesome. If a show like that came out, I'd be watching the first episode over and over, memorizing each line before the second one even came out.

>>2873562
>
What I'm saying is that you can and should enjoy the characters, but there should be other reasons aside from that. Umineko is a reasonable example; people like the characters but in many cases, said characters aren't the sole reason for reading it.
Okay.

>Yes, this is precisely the point I was making. The sorts of shows you're describing are basically Twilight for men and deserve similar disdain.
No, see, the reason I wouldn't watch a gender-swapped yuri show is that I don't care to watch men in homosexual relationships. Call me homophobic even. That's not to say such shows don't have other redeeming qualities.
In Marimite, for example, its pretty interesting to see how all the characters develop as they grow up. Someone here called it a family dynasty-type show, as I recall.
Taking another example off the top of my head... Simoun. That had nifty steampunk airships and battles. And the whole "priestesses who have to become soldiers to save their country" angle.
Those are reasons to watch the show inspite of the characters being women, but turning them to men turns me off because I just don't care for yaoi.

See what I mean? Your method is not fool-proof.

>>2873562
>What I'm saying is that you can and should enjoy the characters, but there should be other reasons aside from that. Umineko is a reasonable example; people like the characters but in many cases, said characters aren't the sole reason for reading it.
Okay.

>Yes, this is precisely the point I was making. The sorts of shows you're describing are basically Twilight for men and deserve similar disdain.
No, see, the reason I wouldn't watch a gender-swapped yuri show is that I don't care to watch men in homosexual relationships. Call me homophobic even. That's not to say such shows don't have other redeeming qualities.
In Marimite, for example, its pretty interesting to see how all the characters develop as they grow up. Someone here called it a family dynasty-type show, as I recall.
Taking another example off the top of my head... Simoun. That had nifty steampunk airships and battles. And the whole "priestesses who have to become soldiers to save their country" angle.
Those are reasons to watch the show inspite of the characters being women, but turning them to men turns me off because I just don't care for yaoi.

See what I mean? Your method is not fool-proof.

>>2873597
Who knows? Anything can be a fiscal success these days; quality is unimportant. Get a good marketing scheme and you're halfway to the bank. Just make people talk about it. The Dragon Ball move got going just from that.

For anime, Seto no Hanayome did the whole manly men doing cute things and it was great. Cromartie did the whole manly men school and it was great as well. How well did they do fiscally? Do they even release that information?

>"Would I have interest in this game/show/book, etc if all the characters were male?"

Male Kagami would be hot. Male Yuki is hot. Male Shana would be hot. Male Louise would be hot. Male Hinagiku is hot.

Why are they hot? Because their personalities turn me on. Then again, if by moe you mean ~uguu~~~<3 then tsundere (with the exception of Yuki) might not be considered moe...

>>2873613
If what you described were really redeeming qualities, then you would have watched said shows in spite of your distaste for homosexual relationships.

Example: many people here hate what they perceive to be TM's tendency towards lolpowerlevels. Nevertheless, most people have read it because of something else in the story which interested them, whatever that might be.

Those are redeeming qualities, because they actually gave a reason to read it strong enough to overpower the sort of distaste you've descibed.

So basically OP, you can't enjoy shows simply for the moe, and because of that they're automatically shit and nobody else's opinion matters.

Is that a correct summary?

Fuck you, OP. If a show caters to my base instincts, I'm gonna watch it, I'm gonna like it, and you can go to hell.

>>2873639
by it, I meant TM's works.

/jp/ - Trolling/General

>>2873650
If you're asking me if I'd prefer that my media consist of something other than 12/26/50 episodes of fanservice without plot or character development (however poorly scripted), then yes. I'm not adverse to moe though, as I said.

And I'm curious, I'm sure you disagree with the following statement, so could you tell me why?

>You also now realize that saying a series is "moe~" (in leiu of any other redeeming qualities) is the same sort of justification employed by Twilight readers and yaoi fangirls

>>2873675
I don't disagree with that statement. I simply don't care. What's it to me if yaoi fangirls like Twilight?

>>2873655
This kind of angry flailing is often found in the mouthes of rhetorically cornered narutards who can't provide an actual justification as to why their show/manga doesn't suck.

Certainly, you can do better.

>>2873639
Well, think of it this way. He really doesn't like 'gays' so he avoids the show completely with that as his only excuse. Now if there was a person that really doesn't like powerlevels, then they'll avoid the game as well with that as their only excuse. There might be something more than gays and powerlevels, but until the person has watched/played it, he'll just go lol<insert here> and ignore it. Redeeming qualities don't exist for the person until they've experienced it.

For those of you found of action, perhaps you should read this thread.

You also now realize that saying a series is "MANLY" (in lieu of any other redeeming qualities) is the same sort of justification employed by Naruto readers and shounen fanboys.

Simple litmus test, kids: Ask yourself, "Would I have interest in this game/show/book, etc if there weren't fight scenes?"

If it's a show with even the slightest bit of merit, then the answer is yes. If not, then you shouldn't be watching it because it's designed to cater to your basest instincts solely for the purpose of selling merchandise without even a pretense at actual effort.

I'm not saying that you should have the idiotic mentality of "I only watch intelligent shows for intelligent people like myself XDD," but at the same time, you should have some standards. Standards (however low they may be) are what separate this site from the other weeaboo sinkholes of the internet.

Discussion welcome, pic unrelated.

>>2873695
Though I know you're attempting to spoof me, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement, actually. This is why faggots who like shonen series should be despised (assuming you aren't simply on the bandwagon).

>>2873689
So are you admitting to being no better than a yaoi fangirl?

>>2873709
Yoai fangirls also use the internet, so by that logic, I guess none of us are better then them.

K-On! is just as shitty as Naruto, but I like both anyway. I haven't read/watched Twilight but I don't care about Twilight fangirls or yaoi fangirls. I've never pretended to be better than them.

>>2873709
Good to see that you found it in good taste. It's sort of depressing, really. Formulaic series are easier to produce and market, while original ideas are risky ventures.
As a result, we get generic rehashes of tried things.

>Would I have interest in this game/show/book, etc if all the characters were male?

Yes. Kaito is so kawaii and Len is so moe. ♥

Fuck you OP, and your Twilight comment. Sure, the fanbase sucks, but try reading the books themselves. I can honestly say that I was thoroughly engrossed as the pages turned before me.
Fine, call me a fag, put me on the same level as those yaoi fans of Twilight. I don't care. As long as I'm happy with the stories that I have, I'm golden, even if it all is truly hollow, empty drivel.

>>2873763

>>2873709
You know what, OP? You remind me of this nigger I know... And I mean that in the greatest form of respect possible.

Would you watch a mystery if I removed the mystery?

Would you watch a comedy if I removed the comedy?

Do you see how fucking stupid this logic is?

Let's see. One of the shows I liked mainly for its moeness was Lucky Star (HOLY SHIT DID I JUST SAY THAT). If everyone were male... nothing would really change, they'd still be cute moeblobs doing silly things. If everyone were drawn as Akagi characters... damn, that would be awesome. Whatever.

Nevertheless, it was still an entertaining show, at least for me and at least after episode 5. Sure, it's about nothing - but who cares? I watch anime (read games / play visual novels / what) to keep myself entertained. Sure, the visual helps A LOT, especially when it's a new thing for me, and it still helps on their course, keeping myself entertained and daaaawwwwing at the cute things, but it's not the only thing... I guess.

Maybe it's because of that that I dropped Tayutama after watching the first episode. Sure, it's fucking cute - but it seemed rather boring, annoying and uninteresting.

>>2873767
>I'm golden
I refuse to believe you.

Dear OP.
The only kind of moe~ i like is the Undead Moe~.
Replace all cliches with undead.

>>2873478
>all the characters were male
Fuck yes.

>>2873478
So? What's wrong with that? Am I not allowed to watch or read something for my own entertainment anymore?

>>2873818
I think his point is, like what you like but don't be an elitist faggot about it because you're no better than the people you put down. If so I agree.

>>2873818

No, you have be a spineless, submissive little fuck and listen to everything that Anonymous people on the internet tell you, because you cannot come to your own conclusions and must be spoon-fed other people's bullshit.

>>2873826

No no, that's what zun does.

>>2873478
10/10. It took me a while to get your trolling.

But for the sake of the topic, as people will argue this despite it being troll, I wouldn't like a show if the "cute" females were male, because I'm not gay. A bunch of scenes in the show, as well as important parts of the plot, are centred around me caring for the character in an at least somewhat romantic way, which wouldn't work without them being female. Sure you can say "Focussing the story on making fans attracted to the characters is Twilight-ish", but you can't deny the fact that it adds depth to to the story, as you genuinely care about the character and any actions undertaken involving them.

>>2873835

>>2873709
>So are you admitting to being no better than a yaoi fangirl?
Hmm, I've known my share of likable yaoi fangirls. The problem with the bad ones is not their taste in entertainment material (or masturbation fodder, whatever) it's how they shove it in the faces of everyone else. Like jumping into a totally unrelated discussion and talking about how hot it would be if the two male leads would pork each other.
Those that avoid such things can make for good acquaintances.

>>2873837
Empathizing with the characters is a quality of good stories, yes, except that in this case (moe~ shows) there isn't a story to begin with. There's a beginning and an end, but is there a rising action, climax and falling action in something like Lucky Star?

Let me say it again. I actually have fondness for the concept of moe, but I dislike it when companies transparently cash in on the craze and idiots lap it up, since it leads a degradation of quality as everyone (badly) copies what sold well.

This is the kind of idiocy I would expect from /a/. You must be one of the recent immigrants.

For the record I would like all the shows I like if the girls were male. I watch a fair amount of slice of life too (including Lucky Star). I like many shows because of the characters, but for their personalities and interaction, not physical appearance.

But why the fuck do you even care why people like the anime they like? It's extremely childish to get upset because people like different things than you.

So I get a free pass to watch Saki since I enjoyed Akagi?

>>2873916
Akagi and Saki genderswapped would be awesome.

>>2873916
Sure, but I found Saki to be very boring. There's not enough mahjong!

>>2873898
>Lucky Star
Actually, bad example. Slice-of-life generally avoids a greater overarching story in trade for the daily-life aspect, much in the same way sitcoms do.

>>2873898
>But why the fuck do you even care why people like the anime they like?

Remind me, why is everyone posting here?

And I'm not upset, though I'm interested to see what people think and for what reasons. If I came off too strongly in my original post, I extend my apologies - I just wanted you lot to consider approaching your hobbies with some more standards than you might already, as it forces companies to make better products. If every fig company mass produced sader quality replicas of your characters, you wouldn't buy them, would you?

While we're not Elevens and any impression that we make (assuming we buy anything at all) is no more potent than a footprint on the shore at high tide, it might make a lasting difference someday. Heck, look at what those idiotic feminazis achieved.

>>2873931
But there are breasts and tacos!
What would genderbent Nodoka have, a giant penis?

>>2873900
>Let me say it again. I actually have fondness for the concept of moe, but I dislike it when companies transparently cash in on the craze and idiots lap it up, since it leads a degradation of quality as everyone (badly) copies what sold well.
But then who are you to determine "quality"? If the fans ("idiots") enjoy what the company is producing, doesn't that mean the quality is sufficiently good?

I'm just saying all this as an outside observer, I don't particularly like slice-of-life/comedy shows but I don't hate them either. The last one I watched would be Potemayo, which was hilarious for too many reasons to recount.

>>2873900
Moe isn't a genre. You're probably thinking of slice of life, which relies on characters and comedy rather than plot. You might not like it, but to claim that the genre exists only to cash in on moe is disproven by the fact that slice of life existed long before moe.

>Remind me, why is everyone posting here?
/jp/ is bored. All the time.

>Elevens
Ugh.

>>2873943
It's 02:41 and I'm watching a movie. You just happen to be the thread I that autorefresh in the background.
>I just wanted you lot to consider approaching your hobbies with some more standards than you might already, as it forces companies to make better products.
This seems kind of silly. If the people enjoy it, what's the point in not enjoying it so that companies would make things that they enjoy? Or are you suggesting that people mould their tastes for the good of the collective?

>>2873837
You didn't realize it immediately? I was like, Oh yeah let's apply that logic to classic literature. OP is a 1/10 at most.

Moe is fine if the fans know their place. Liking moe doesn't making you any better than shonen watchers. Many of them seem to think liking it makes them elite or something.

I like both, though.

I am a heterosexual male which does not like females who exist in the third dimension, as their hormonal balance and brain structuring makes them extremely irritating, ignorant, or domineering, and I find the act of sexual intercourse disgusting.

How will I release my sexual tension? Obviously, through masturbation of works done in 2d of the female body.

I am also a logical, reasonable, thinking person and I find that if there is some kind of dramatic, enjoyable, and interesting story that I can follow which is integrated with the 2d erotic images I wish to see, with added voice clips, then surely that is the medium I will seek out.

I am an eroge player, and if all of the game's heroines were male and the H-Scenes became homosexual ones due in part to this, I could not enjoy them.


How does this relate to moe at all?

>>2873961
>doesn't making you
I've no idea how I managed to make a mistake like this.

Gender and its corresponding aesthetic is part of what defines a character. Unless your replacement had the same feminine aesthetic of the original characters (pretty much making your point worthless anyway), your argument doesn't work. This argument is stupid anyway, as everyone recognizes that those who don't like moe don't belong here. In before someone from /a/ say this isn't so.

>>2874001
>Gender and its corresponding aesthetic is part of what defines a character.

This is true in many cases, but what does a character like Konata lose by becoming male? Brea- oh wait.

>>2874032
Yuri fans and their shipping goggles.

>>2874032

An important part of Konata's character is that she is a female otaku though.

>>2874060

That's the only leg it has to stand on. Every episode is about her wacky adventures trying to fit in with her stereotypically technophobic classmates and the hilarious ways she pwns noobs on the Internet, GRINDAN and playing arcade games.

The first three episodes made me rage my eyes out of my skull. I didn't watch further.

>game/show/book, etc

Why did I read this as "/game/show/book, /etc" ?