/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Shiki.

>>2682390
Ultimate Hitpoints-Resistance vs the Greatest Weapon spammer.
...It will be circumstantial.

According to T-Complex, Arcueid.

I mean, even Shiki manages to beat Berserker, even though his condition wouldn't allow him to do ANYTHING at all. He even managed to dodge Shirous swords. I mean, DODGE SHIROUS FUCKING SWORDS. Where did he learn to do something like that anyway? Aside from his eyes, Shiki's a fucking weakling.

LOL WOMAN AND CHILDREN-Gil, or seriousGil?

Not this discussion again...

Arcueid. Gilgamesh should spam Ea to destroy Earth in order to defeat full-power Arc, but that ain't fun to stay on himself in space anyway, and I am not sure Arc would give him opportunity anyway.

>>2682415
>According to T-Complex
lol

>>2682415
Shiki kills an IMMOBILE target held by Arcueid by a technique that specifically ignores resistances.
And he dodges/destroys swords wielded by Shirou.
He avoids being pierced by vampires. I say it's not far fetched.
Finally, you base your opinion on a doujin.

Psycho-LOL Warc > WOMEN AND CHILDREN Gil.

Gilgamesh

According to Nasu, Arc has 4 times the power a servant has, so even Gil won't be a match for her.

>>2682443
>Arc has 4 times the power a servant has
Which is complete bullshit.

Gilgamesh, of course.

He even got his own strategy game, on the other hand I don't see that vampire slut around here.

Q. Whose stronger, Gilgamesh or Arcueid (30%)? While Arcueid has the strength of 4 Servants, I remember reading a scene in hollow where Gil was the equivalent of 5 Servants + a.
A. In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output can be changed in accordance with her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is only allowed an output that is slightly stronger than her opponent. So. Single entity ability of Arc to a Servant is roughly the same.

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons, and with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "unit ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the 5 Servants + a is simply a comparison in terms of "firepower". Like with the "corpses", where each won't have to bother fending off attacks from foot soldier level opponents, the one who'd have the lead is the one who has the more weapons. In Broad Bridge, the reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

>>2682443
4 times stats of an average Servant, not accounting abilities, and Gil is not average. He also gave his opinion on the match-up.

I like how most people ignore the obvious facts and statements, and only use partial info or doujins to answer.

>>2682456
How?

If they just fight withouth the hax button, and the world limiting Arc the battle would be long but Gilgamesh would win in the end with the versality and all.

They use the hax button, Gil does something stupid like destroying the Earth or Arc just kills Gil with MP .


Summon Castle Brunestud > Remove Limiter > no one uses hax button

Now, with that i don't know who would win,

Arc's strength is the strength of her opponent + a

Gilgamesh himself isnt that strong, but his equipments are.

So Gilgamesh will be in advantage vs Arc.

>>2682460
Just to point out. "Average" servant is never mentioned, a servant with an average NP is used for other match ups, but there's not mention about stats.

>>2682492
I thinks it's kinda obvious that when you say 'stats of that many Servants'', you'd use the average or most expected number, not the most powerful of them or the assassins.

>>2682456
> Which is complete bullshit.

Tell that to Nasu.

uh Arc can't even die normally. She was only so weak in Tsukihime because of Shiki killing her. Normally nobody could kill her short of using the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.
Plus she doesn't have to be hax-mode to use Marble Phantasm.
I don't see how anyone can say Gil would even stand a chance.

>>2682459
So in other words, Arcueid is stat adjusted according to her opponent, so someone like Gilgamesh, whose primary advantages don't come from stats; has a reasonable chance of beating her?

sアルクェイド
通常、アルクェイド(平常時)とサーヴァント(平均的性能)がやりあった場合
、サーヴァントのほうが不利であるとされる(実力差はアルクェイド4:サーヴ
ァント1)。
しかしギルガメッシュは、その宝具性能から平均的なサーヴァント5体分以
上の火力を誇るため、全サーヴァント中唯一、単独でアルクェイドを上回る
と明言されている。加えて、アルクェイドの出力が「相手自身の戦闘力を
上回る程度に出せる」ことが、単体戦力よりオプションが強力であるギル
ガメッシュ相手では逆に制限をかけられることになるという点も幸いか。

>>2682506
Yeah, let's doubt the author and easy evidence. Nice
>>2682513
It's a question whether Gil's ridiculous firepower can overcomes Arc's hit points and resistances. We can't know for sure. And it doesn't have to end with her death, just forcing her in retreat due to damage and making her sleep for a good while is also a victory.

>>2682517
She's adjusted for all known considerations, not just stats.

>>2682525
Not ones she does not know so she can be prepared for (resistances for magic for example as she mentions)

>>2682525
アルクェイドの出力が「相手自身の戦闘力を
上回る程度に出せる」

>>2682459
I love how he just added a limit to Arc out of nowhere on this answer when there was nothing about it on the earlier ones, just to please the Fate fags.

>>2682532
>all known considerations

What part was illegible, here?

Arcueid hands down.
Gilgamesh might have all the weapons required to crush Arcueid and her abilities as a vampire but he won't get a chance to use them, unless luck is on his side. He could buy some time by chaining her down, but I don't think anything, chains especially, would be able to buy enough time to let him shoot her, especially considering Arcueid's past.
Also, remember UBW ? He couldn't keep up to Shirou's weapon spam because he's an average fighter at best, how can he hope to keep Arcueid at bay if she manages to enter in melee combat ? She'll rip him to shreds.

>>2682536
She already has a very restrictive limit due to bloodlust restraining. He only added that the World doesn't give her UNLIMITED GREAT output for every opponent, which means that against stronger oppoents, she gets stronger. Thus, in VS battles, she always adjusts. You are a fucking idiot

>>2682525
>there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

>For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons, and with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "unit ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

This implies that her adjustment is only based on raw stats.

>>2682563
Hint: you don't really see Gilgamesh "fights" in fate/stay night.

>>2682573
She makes adjustments on stats/assesment, and she is always resistant to things she has faced before.
But considering she hasn't faced anything like Gil(most probably), she is not prepared.
It's not that hard.

Shiki can kill servants. Discuss.

>>2682459
WTF is this bullshit? I know Nasu has a hard-on for Fate because it's his first born child but why does he always have to go and retcon Tsukihime in such a shitty way like that? I hate how everyone pisses on Tsukihime in favor of FSN, especially Nasu.
Of course Arc would win. She's the motherfucking ultimate weapon breed by the True Ancestors. Stop making shit up Kinoko.

>>2682608
...He doesn't make her weaker.
And with circumstances allowing it, she gets killed by a teenager. She has been shown to have clear inhibitions and restrictions in Tsukihime.
The creator saying that against the oldest hero of the world that predates Arc and whom gods could not kill may be a rough match for her doesn't seem like pandering.

Fucking idiots reading whatever they want.

To be honest, the Tsukihime cast pissed me off to no end, mainly because it got a protagonist that looks like fucking Harry Potter.

>>2682622
For the "oldest hero in the world whom gods could not kill", he sure goes down like a pussy. I can say that for sure.

>>2682644
Your idea of 'like a pussy', considering how restricted he is F/SN does not apply with everyone else's standards.

>>2682630
Considering that when you start Tsukihime, you never really see Shiki, and you NEVER get a shot with his glasses, that seems weird.
Even moreso affecting your opinion with the rest of the cast.

>>2682630
You might want to take a look at KS and Invader Zim male characters as well.

Gilgamesh has a lot to learn ~nyamo.

>>2682630
a FUCKING SEXY AND BUILT Harry Potter, you mean

>>2682578
I suppose you're talking about zero ?
Then enlight me, how does the King of Heroes really fights ?
The biggest flaw I've seen about him is the time it takes for his weapons to come out from the GoB.
Unless you're in the generic plot esposition of a VN, I don't see where would he take the time to materialize his weapons.

reimu would graze gate of babylon and arcueids chains so she would win ^_^

>>2682689
Mostly, when he is serious he attacks straight on with the best he has, unleashing a few dozen weapons at once, starting right away with Ea or his chain, taking out Nuclear flagships etc.
Not taking two weapons at a time and mocking opponents.

>>2682687
Makes me wonder where he got his ABs from.

Honestly, did Shiki ever train his body?

I don't know who would win, but I prefer the Tsukihime cast.

At least, it doesn't rape countless mythological/historical figures like in Fate.

>>2682719
No. He wouldve died from the strain. Trust fucktard fans to shit on the canon

>>2682719
Super genetics from countless generations of delicious incest.

Shirou wins

Type Mercury (ORT) = Ado Edem > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Type Moon (Crimson Moon) > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Zelretch (young) > Counter Guardian Archer > Gilgamesh (Tohsaka) > Gilgamesh (Kotomine) = Arcueid (standard 30%) > Dark Sakura > Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker = 17th Roa (Elesia) > Dark Berserker > 4th Rider > 5th Lancer (optimal) > 4th Lancer = 5th Rider (Sakura/optimal) = 4th Caster (optimal) > 5th Lancer (Kotomine) = 5th Caster = 4th Caster (Ryuunosuke) > 5th Rider (Shinji) > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Souren Araya (within the Ogawa Building) > Gun God (Black Barrel) > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Asagami Fujino = 18th Roa > Tohno SHIKI = Alba = Heaven’s Feel Shirou = Kiri > Nanaya Shiki = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Gun God (unequipped) = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Shinji = Hisui = Kohaku

>>2682689
Well, when he is serious he first choice is simply to dual wield Ea together with his Enkidu chain and simultainessly fires hundreds of the strongests Noble Phantasms approxemently at the speed of almost ridiculus speed of Mach 13! again and again without stop.
And considering the fact that Gil can blow up stuff the sizes of Africa with Ea if he wants to (he really was going easy in Fate...)

And if he feels the need to he can bring out his spaceship in which he can basicly fly out to space and bomb the planet from afar xD

>>2682726
Rape?
Most of the things they do and their abilities are surprisingly close to the various versions of legends (taking out gender reversal).
Legends are far wackier then what most people usually learn

Ea also destroy fucking stars.

>>2682785
Even though Ea is considered an "Anti - World" Noble Phantasm, Gilgamesh can't use all of Ea's powers because of the fact that only gods can use Ea and that Gilgamesh is not 100% god.

The best Gilgamesh can do with Ea is to blow up a continent the size of Africa.

>>2682607
Maybe, but he would certainly burn out his eyes from doing so and end up blind for a week like in Hisui's good end

>>2682390
Fuck Gil, just use a Noble Phantasm that can't be avoided, like Gae Bolg or Fragarach

>>2682768

Eh... BB Gun God's quite low...

>>2682816

If 17 Dissection with MEoDP isn't enough, why would a simple stab kill Arc?

>>2682832
Well, that is because his weapon was a counter for "Gin/Grain" and only works as a really powerful weapon against other stuff.
That, and the fact that he does not have any supernatural abillities, such as being able to move and react at mach speeds as the Servants can.

>>2682840
Dots > lines.
Don't be silly.

>>2682863

But Gae Bolg doesn't use either. It's just a cursed heart stab, which is hard to heal or whatever, but if Rin's abilities are enough to heal it...

Anyways, a line cut is even harder to heal. Remember, Arc couldn't stick her body back together?

>>2682881
Rin didn't heal it, she revived Shirou (at least, I think).

>>2682905

I-ISN'T THAT EVEN HARDER?!?! She's not even a healing-type!

Basically,wasn't it just using the magical energy stored in the jewel to break the curse and reconstruct the damaged area at the same time? He wasn't dead, you see.

>>2682905
She made an entirely new heart. It took 10 years worth of prana to do it too.

>>2682929
Yes. She used a shortcut of actually knowing how to mend flesh and force-created a heart from that much pure power. Shirou wasn't dead, yet, otherwise she couldn't have revived him.

Bringing the truly dead back to life as they previously were is in the realm of true magic.

>>2682816
ONE OF THESE DON'T BELONG.

>>2682929

....This is it! The secret to human transmutation...!

>>2682563

Gilgamesh's Luck stat is A+. Luck is /always/ on his side.

It's probably a pretty even fight though. Overwhelming firepower doesn't always mean everything in TM (In fact, it usually doesn't). Even Arc with all her crazy tricks could be killed instantly by Gae Bolg according to Nasu I believe.

>>2682943

See

>>2682881

>>2682943
All Gae Bolg does is pierce the heart and destroy it. Arcueid was capable of recreating her entire body from her head down. If she hadn't been massacred by Shiki, losing a heart probably wouldn't bother her.

Not to mention Roa loses almost his entire body and recovers nearly instantaneously. What's a heart matter?

>>2682943
He said that with a 'bad roll' she will get hit, not die.
Aka, Gae can bypass a lot of shit.

>>2682955

By the way, this is because vampires heal themselves by 'reversing time' around their bodies, and making it like they were never hurt in the first place, vaguely. That's why you have to use special methods to kill them, usually.

Also, if the moon hadn't been full, Roa would have died, so there are at least some restrictions on this healing ability, but it's safe to say that Arc's healing is leagues above his as well.

>Impaling Barbed Death will even kill Arc provided her luck roll fails. Also, Impaling Barbed Death (and probably Death Flight) will turn into a thousand thorns upon impact.

The specific text, taken off the existing mirror of the old Fuyukiwiki with all this info on it.

Gilgamesh and Arcueid kill each other, then Ryogi Shiki's third personality takes over and she eradicates all existence.

>>2682986

What does 'kill' mean, anyways? Pfft.

>>2683004
Just like how Shiki "killed" Arc am I right?

>>2682979
off topic but i loved this explanation, it was the coolest explanation of vampiric healing ability I have yet heard.

>>2683015
>>2683004
We should not underestimate successful curses that target the heart by cheating causality.
Fragarach maimed even Saber with one hit.

If it hits perfectly, it may be over.
Although, physical Destruction does not mean the end for Arc.

>>2682986
>Surviving through Gae Bolg will require an auto-resurrect Noble Phantasm or high LCK or a defensive barrier that surpasses the mana of Gae Bolg.

>>2683045
>>2683045
Yep.

Gil, whislt attacking Arc with constant Ea spam and chains would fire Herpe out of his vault and hit her whilst she is distracted.

Honestly, I know Gil is overpowered, but the length Tsukihime fags go to to try and prove Arc is stronger is just retarded. She clearly wouldnt win.

>>2683048
Arc summons her Castle and it'll be over.

The problem is Arcueid doesn't die when she is killed.

>>2683066
you lost me

>>2683066

It's more than that.

When her lines were cut, her existence was removed. Her 'dying' was a 'mere side effect' of that.

though, she was still able to exist.

>>2683071
If I see that fucking Shirou one more time.

>>2683048
The problem is that the amount of damage she recovers is ridiculous, even at a weakened state.
She reconstructed her fucking body after being slashed in the Death lines.
That's ridiculous.
And Marble Phantasms variations are unexplored and quite the trumpcard.
So you have an incredible durable bitch with a Jack of All trades Ability against the Absolute Weapon Spam.

It's not a fight you can easily predict, nor it should be.

>>2683081
how about shirouko?

>>2683081
people die when they are killed.

>>2683079
Lines are fractures in concepts. If you cut the line, the fragmented concept can never be rejoined as it was, so healing is impossible. Dots are the very end of the concept, so that if you strike it, it just falls apart completely, since its conceptual existence was terminated.

Arcueid was cut into pieces and reformed herself over time. She changed her own existence in order to keep going, which apparently eats up most of her power.

I feel the same shit as looking Bleach vs One Piece thread in this

>>2683115
gb2/a/

>>2683083

Ok, I accept your reasoning, but I still dont know how sumoning a castle will help stand up to Ea. Ea can destroy a fucking continent, and beat excallibur in a war of attrition, and Excallibur was something created by the planet. I know ML is strong, but not that strong surely?

>>2683115
Comparing two series by saying 'Whatever One does is better' and using mechanics shown in the story for a possible match-up within the setting is much different.

Problem is, no matter the board, there are idiots and trolls.

>>2683079
The existance is only erased if the "dot" is stabbed.

When a dot is stabbed the existance is erased by being fast forwaded to when the thing/person that got stabbed does not exist anymore.
When a line is cut it is just a fast forward to when that "part" would break.
If a living thing brakes to much it will die, but not cease to exist.

Marble Phantasm wins

>>2683125
Nero's reality marble could also destroy something the size of a continent, she didn't need to summon the castle for that.

>>2683115

Except this is a valid discussion focusing on two of the most poweful beings in the Nasuverse, not trolling a decent show.

gb2/a/

>>2683125
Generally, Marble Phantasm is the ability as an Elemental of Earth to act as an extension of it.
Ea is NOT undefendable, and Arc is too resistant to damage. Her castle probably is nothing to scoff at, but who cares about that.

Besides, if she uses the same move she used against Roa, what will Gill do?

>>2683142
Here is the 'misinformed' angle.

500 lives condensed would Require the firepower of a continent to be obliterated, according to Nero.
Defensive, not offensive.

>>2683146
Gill will drop dead on the ground?

>>2683158
Bingo. We don't see him being that resistant to damage.
But most people always assume that only Gil can launch an attack first with Ea or Sword Spam.
I don't know why.

I attribute it to not having read the source material for some time.

>>2683132
It's not time dilation or speeding up. It's just that everything created will end. Everything has a built in self-dissolution. Shiki is capable of activating that. There's not a "set" time of destruction in terms of absolute minutes and seconds, just a guarantee that it's unavoidable and will happen.

Or maybe fate does exist. Nasu seems to contradict himself a lot on whether "fate" exists in the Nasuverse, and the idea of bringing forth a "fated" death prematurely is contradictory towards the idea of a death being "fated" in the first place.

lol, Nasu.

Nanaya Shiki connects the end, so the object disintegrates as it meets oblivion. Ryougi Shiki disconnects the beginning, so the object disintegrates as it loses its basis for existing. Neither violates the concept of time.

>>2683144
Nero's Soil of Genesis had the theoretical powerfulness of an entire continent, so you would require force enough to destroy one in order to defeat it.

Sometimes I wonder how different life would be if Nasu had just said Arc's power is roughly 1/4th of a servant's instead of the other way around.

>>2683217
She'd be much weaker than the humans her origin by default makes far superior, aka kinda weird.

>>2683217
all the discussions will still have gaia or it will be switched to the theoretical 100% arc

>>2683222

Servants can't be considered humans any longer though, they've surpassed humanity and should be on the level with figures like True Ancestors/Arc.

>>2683227

100% Arc is basically the Crimson Moon/Type-Moon right? So she'd be the stronger than everyone else, but is still the weakest among the Types so they'd all bust her ass open.

>>2683172

Realistically, if SHIROU is fast enough to notice what Gil's doing and defend against it, Arc will be able to kill him before he moves an inch. MP doesn't need an incantation, or any movement on Arc's part at all, and is basically instant. Ea, in comparison, needs to be drawn, needs to compress air, and needs to be activated by calling its name.

Not that Arc couldn't just rip his body in half instead.

>>2683232
Same level is a big word.
Being stronger than most humans doesn't mean you just reach the top.
>>2683235
Types do not exactly work that way.

>>2683232

Not so much Arc as... maybe... Ciel + 5, or so. She can at least hold a servant off, but is easily crushed by Arc, and she's basically human.

>>2683235
>>2683244

We don't really know how Crimson Moon measured up against the other types. I mean, he was beaten by Zelretch, but Zelretch is kind of a cheater.

CM could use the entire moon as a projectile, and if that hit it would easily destroy all life on earth. Also, stuff like Alt Nagel and whatnot...

>>2683249

They spend the entire game in FSN hammering home how only a servant stands a chance against another servant in a straight-up fight and the game does not occur ignorant of the the rest of the world as shit like vampires and all that goes. Come on, now.

>>2683263
Yes, they do so a lot. In the beginning. But if you go through the actual story, you realize that this was not 100% true. Rin can take Caster with some prep time, an enhanced human can bounce around Saber, an executor can hold off Assassin, a magus can match the weaponry of the King of Heroes etc.
They have a great advantage, but they are not untouchable.

>>2683182
I know, I know, but to be honest it is Nasu himself that vaugly compared it with some kind of "fast forward" in an interview.
But i guess that it is more of a step forward or something like that.

>>2683278

Saber was surprised only because Kuzuki's techniques were so weird. It's said right after that he would be killed in a second fight since Saber now understands his style. Kotominei could /only/ hold Assassin off (who is also the weakest servant there is and thus a bit of an exception) and Shirou is someone who was fated to become a heroic soul in the first place and happened to have uniquely anti-Gilgamesh skillset.

As for PREPTIME, go back to /co/

>>2683263

I said 'hold off'. Nasu said she can fight defensively against a servant. Obviously, she wouldn't be able to win...

>>2683289
First time, surprise or whatever, it's very feasible.
And weakest of the servants or not, he is still above 'most'.
Saying 'Oh, he was destined, so it's forgiven' means nothing. With his current powers that are a good match, he did it. IN TM, how abilities match is an important factor, along with Skill, raw power and concept/mystery.
And preptime simply amounts to planning and taking advantage of weaknesses, which Rin did with Caster.
Being butthurt due to Batman threads does not change that.

>>2682929
>She made an entirely new heart. It took 10 years worth of prana to do it too.
Ah, now that scene makes a lot more sense.
However, if she could remake his heart, why can't she give Shirou a new body?
They could just amputate small bits and replace them with the real stuff, right? And it was stated that Sakura still had a shitload of mana that needed to be drained, so if she had sex with Rin...

>>2683343
Also, strictly speaking, she didn't fix the heart from scratch, she accelerated the healing enough that a STABBED heart was fixed fast enough for him to survive.

And the strain on SHirou's original body was a result of overloading magic that fucked him up to his very soul, so it takes a MIRACLE (hello 3d magic) for him to even survive.

So why doesn't Archer get fucked up as bad from the projection he does like Shirou in UBW and HF?

>>2683415
Cause he has had a lifetime to train and adjust, and knowing exactly what he does plus getting empowered by the world, while Shirou did not even use his circuit properly when the story started, and was only marginally successful when he did it on instinct.

>>2683415

Archer can kill servants. Discuss

>>2683439

And does.

>>2683439

Archer has killed the most servants out of anyone in the F/SN universe.

>>2683625

Technically Gil has since he blew away a bunch of Iskander's army, all of whom were considered to be masterless servants.

>>2683625
Saber holds that title.

Fake Assassin, once. Rider, once. Berserker, once. Gilgamesh, once.

4 confirmed defeats.

Then she owns Archer in Hollow Ataraxia.

Gilgamesh is the runner up, taking out Berserker, Lancer, and Caster, in Fate/UBW.

>>2683625
Who all does Archer kill? He never fights after getting hit by Saber before dying in Fate. He kills Caster in UBW, but I think that's it. And again in HF he's wounded and doesn't do much fighting.

>>2683650
what about killing berserker 6 times in fate?

>>2683641
Shirou has taken down Dark Berserker, Dark Saber, Berserker, and Gilgamesh.

>>2683650
Archer kills Caster, and delivers the mortal blow to Gilgamesh, after Gil does himself in by having been dipped in Angry Manjew juice.

>>2683662
He didn't die when killed so those don't count. Certainly not 6 times either.

>>2683663
So most of Archer's kills were done as Shirou, then.

>>2683673
Well, most of Shirou's kills have special circumstances really. He defeats Berserker half-and-half with Saber. And then the rest of the kills he shares with Archer (or his arm).

Wait.

Arc has the power of the planet.

and Gilgamesh has an Anti-world noble phantasm.

isn't this a no brainer?

>>2683740
Did you even read the thread? Arc can rip Gill to shreds and Gil can't use the full power of Ea. Not to mention Gill's stats+A rank and Gil's lol break continent was also done by Nero and she did not need to use her MP for it.

>>2684022

To be fair, pretty much everything you said right there was inaccurate. Even with lowered output, Ea is stronger than Excalibur, so it can probably do pretty well against Arc. Gil's stats aren't high enough to give Arc enough of a power boost to make up for his NPs. Nero's 'continent' was a defensive measure that Arc could NOT break, and was taken down by Nero himself in order to fight Shiki more effectively. Not only could she not use her MP, thanks to being wounded by Shiki, Nero himself states that she couldn't break the SoG, even at full power.

...despite this, I still believe Arc would wreck Gil, mostly because she's faster, has better defenses, and because a difference in offensive power doesn't matter when both people have a one-shot kill move.


Also, 'Archer' has the most kills in Fate. Caster, Berserker, Dark Berserker, Dark Saber, Gilgamesh. That beats Saber's 4, right?

Actually, what about Sakura? Killing aside, she defeated Saber, Archer, Lancer, Berserker, Gilgamesh...

>>2684349
I doubt the worm whore could defeat and eat the living will of a planet. Look at what happened to Wallachia

I didn't read the thread, so yeah.

I'm going to say Gilgamesh because Arc doesn't really have any method to handle the Gate of Babylon, and swords like Herpe would be very harmful to Arc, as well as Gae Dearg (severing her ties with the world = ouch).

Of course, it all really depends if Gil is serious. He's from ancient times; maybe he knew Crimson Moon and would recognize her as a legitimate thread. If he's not cranking Gate of Babylon to max power and attempting Enuma Elish while she's handling that, he'd probably lose.

According to Battle Moon Wars, Arc would tear Gilgamesh apart and curb stomp him without a fucking chance. I find it hard to disagree when you can control the earth and air he steps on and breathes.

>>2684385

Let's say Arc uses MP to create a huge gust of wind that deflects the sword-spam. Or, raises a huge wall of stone or metal as a shield. Or, just summons her castle in between her and Gil.

A Marble Phantasm is pretty much a reality marble, but instead of doing a set magic, it lets you do anything possible in nature. Arc is the most versatile character in TM, so she can probably find a way to defend against anything short of, say, Bellerophon? Excalibur? Uninvoked NP's should be easy to block.

Not that he'd have a chance to attack, considering how fast she is.

>>2684429

To be fair, she needed support from Saber to stop Ea, first.

>>2684457
>A Marble Phantasm is pretty much a reality marble, but instead of doing a set magic, it lets you do anything possible in nature.

What do you mean by anything possible in nature? Does it function like Bernkastel's ability in Umineko (the ability to enact any event whose probability isn't zero)?

>>2684491

Oh, yeah. I heard a description of it once as 'raising the probability of something happening in nature to 100%'.

So, I guess so.

Arc would win

And you people are being completely retarded to think or even entertain the idea that just because Gilgamesh is a "Human Servant" that the earth would limit her to the point of a having the power of a slightly overpowered servant. She's made to fucking destroy things in the planets defense and for her own. The earth would calculate that way ahead of time,if it didnt,then quite frankly,Arcueid would have died many, MANY times already. And would have already given in to her Vampiric urges.

>>2684349

>Nero's 'continent' was a defensive measure that Arc could NOT break

Go re-read Tsukihime....Arc says that Nero would be no big deal if she was able to use the full strength she had been given then. This was further emphesized by the fact that Shiki was able to 'Kill' him without becoming a mental retard.

>>2684538

But Arc did die many times already. Even Shiki killed her easily.

>>2684538
>you people are being completely retarded to think or even entertain the idea that just because Gilgamesh is a "Human Servant" that the earth would limit her to the point of a having the power of a slightly overpowered servant

Reread this: As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is only allowed an output that is slightly stronger than her opponent. So. Single entity ability of Arc to a Servant is roughly the same.

>>2684529
Well, when you say in nature, does that include the works of mankind as well?

>>2684491
Anything that's possible as a function of nature can be reproduced. It cannot directly modify humans or things created by humanity. The use by Arcueid to make chains could potentially be an extension of her own sense of touch exhibiting an external effect when applied via Marble Phantasm.

If not possible according to natural laws, it cannot be done, whereas a Reality Marble will enforce changes which often violate natural laws entirely.

>>2684578
>does that include the works of mankind as well?

No. Humans exist within nature but are not part of it. So too with things created by humanity.

The Millennium Castle is a place created by nature, so it's reproducible.

When within the confines of the Millennium Castle, Arcueid is capable of expressing her power with greater ability.

>>2684529
I read somewhere that a Marble Phantasm is always selecting the black marble from a bag of white marbles and that a Reality Marble is changing all marbles to black.
The first one doesn't change the nature of the world, so Gaia rolls around with it. The latter screws the rules so it starts to break down as soon as it is created.

>>2684650
That's the basic version of it.

Okay what if they fought in the Notes world?

>>2684538

Eh... if YOU re-read it... she says this BEFORE being trapped by the Soil of Genesis. Nero says she would not be able to escape at full power AFTER this.

>>2684578

If you want to go the long way about it, how about Arc uses the MP to create a simple, single-cell lifeform, accelerates the process of evolution by a billion times, and creates a functioning human, who then builds whatever the hell she wants?

Or is that going too far...?

Generally, just assume that she can do 'nature-y things' and relatively simple constructs like the castle and those chains WR mentioned. She can even do stuff like recreate conditions of nature, i.e. the 'Crimson Moon' in Melty Blood.

>>2684538

Eh... if YOU re-read it... she says this BEFORE being trapped by the Soil of Genesis. Nero says she would not be able to escape at full power AFTER this.

>>2684578

If you want to go the long way about it, how about Arc uses the MP to create a simple, single-cell lifeform, accelerates the process of evolution by a billion times, and creates a functioning human, who then builds whatever the hell she wants?

Or is that going too far...?

Generally, just assume that she can do 'nature-y things' and relatively simple constructs like the castle and those chains WR mentioned. She can even do stuff like recreate conditions of nature, i.e. the 'Crimson Moon' in Melty Blood.

>>2684667

Does stuff like magic even work then? Gil can't exist, and Arc is without world support, so she's either...

A: Basically a normal human.

B: A human-strength Fallen Ancestor who tries to eat people, thanks to her loss of power, which previously held back her vampiric urges.

C: Crimson Moon. She becomes a full Aristoteles and helps kill humanity, as the reincarnation of Type Moon.

>>2684726
I though HAX Emperor's sword was magical?

>>2684667

In the world of Overcount 1999, Arcueid can't even exist.

Gilgamesh wouldn't be able to breathe, either.

>>2684675
She can't do that. Creating humans, at least.

And the moon she brought forth in Melty Blood was an inevitability from the future. According to the cycle, the red moon of destruction is going to return. So she used her Marble Phantasm to make real an event form the future, now. And even at that, it was a lie that would only exist long enough to massacre Wallachia, and it took all of her power to do it.

She's just lucky that Wallachia didn't have a good legal counsel.

>>2684726

Gil is a living, breathing human after the events of Fate/Zero.
He can live without the World.

Arcueid cannot.

>>2684744

Ado Edem's sword is bones + space dust.

That's it.
Bones and space dust.

It's pretty fucked up space dust, though.

>>2684797
He killed a Type with bones and space dust...... what the hell nasu

>>2684797

I read that as aki*eda and wondered why a superpowerful person would spend her days writing yuri manga intended for middle schoolers.

>>2684822

Two Types, actually.

Character Material confirms that he slays Type-Saturn after Gun God misses the shot.

Gilgamesh wins. Nasu said so stop bitching.

The question would be, would Gil be serious?

And as for a fight, I honestly think that Gil would be wanting to put Arc in GOB because she's the only one of her kind remaining. That, and she's the epitome of beauty.

If they both started out fighting seriously, at full power, Arc would probably win because she can use Marble Phantasm faster than Gil can use Ea.

If they both started fighting while holding back, Gil would probably win because of his chain and Gates of Babylon spam.

If they both fought normally, Gil would die horribly due to his A++ ranked ego making him hold back until it's too late.

ITT: Fate fags keep insisting that Gilgamesh even has a chance.

Guys, you're completely missing the point. I'd fuck the shit out of both Ilya and Rin.

I don't think Gil will hold back on Arc.

>>2684848
But can he see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?
Seriously though: HAX Emperor vs. ORT; who would win?

Bleach character vs. Naruto character.

Who wins?

>>2685746

ORT, probably.

The top-tier in attack prowess probably would be able to kill him (it also has the benefit of being less than 3 fucking kilometers long [how did you MISS that Gun God]), as it doesn't rely on overwhelming number (Saturn) or overwhelming size (Jupiter), but overwhelming force (and presumably speed).

>>2685764
ORT fast? lolololololololol

>>2685823

It DID kill a Dead Apostle Ancestor in seconds before it even knew what was going on.

>>2685764

Top tier until Ado Edem came around, that is. Slash Emperor grows infinitely, at the speed of THOUGHT. So, basically, it's immediately incredibly gigantic, and you're impaled/cleaved/dead. No avoiding or defending.

Anyways, we don't know what kind of abilities ORT has, except that it's the strongest in offense on earth (before the rest of the types appeared). However, if Jupiter and Saturn can both be killed, then it's safe to say Mercury would be as well.

>>2685840

>at the speed of THOUGHT

Killed before he can think.

ORT LASER CANNON

Alternatively, Crystal Valley -- Ado Edem is now a statue.

Yeah, we have no fucking clue what ORT can do. Stupid vague Type creatures.

What if your boner grew at the speed of thought?

>>2682768
>ATTENTION. I AM THE ORIGINAL CREATOR OF THE OFFICIAL JAYPEE POWERLEVELAN CHART. HERE IS THE FINAL VERSION.

>Type Mercury (ORT) = Ado Edem > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Type Moon (Crimson Moon) > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Zelretch (young) > Counter Guardian Archer > Gilgamesh (Tohsaka) > Gilgamesh (Kotomine) = Arcueid (standard 30%) > Dark Sakura > Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker = 17th Roa (Elesia) > Dark Berserker > 4th Rider > 5th Lancer (optimal) > 4th Lancer = 5th Rider (Sakura/optimal) = 4th Caster (optimal) > 5th Lancer (Kotomine) = 5th Caster = 4th Caster (Ryuunosuke) > 5th Rider (Shinji) > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer > Kouma > 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = Ciel = "Ryougi Shiki" = Souren Araya (within the Ogawa Building) > Gun God (Black Barrel) > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Asagami Fujino = 18th Roa > Tohno SHIKI = Alba = Heaven’s Feel Shirou = Kiri > Nanaya Shiki = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Gun God (unequipped) = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Shinji = Hisui = Kohaku

tis missing miyako

>>2685852

Yeah, but he could just slash away from the next continent. Big sword is fucking big. ORT would die before she even knew what was going on.

Oh, also, ORT apparently has a flight mode, activated by holding boost and double tapping the pad.

>>Type Jupiter > Type Saturn > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Type Moon (Crimson Moon)


Also, this is based on....what?

>>2685877
I thought it was activated by tapping boost twice?

>>2685897
No that's how your turn Gilgamesh's Mecha into Flight Mode.

>>2685896

Arc has delicious kneepits.

>>2685893

Implications.

Type-Jupiter was at war with an entire continent. At once.
Type-Saturn was the "relay unit" of the Aristoteles.
Type-Pluto was considered a massive threat and its blood is able to stop 2 other Types.
Type-Venus was going to eat the entire planet (but that's not really a combat function, now is it?).
Type-Moon got juked by a teleporting jerkass.

>>2685907
Type-Asteroid belt is the strongest.

I the flight think Is just link my post
>2685883
>>2685883

>>2685883

(newcomer to /JP)

>>2685910

Nah.

Pretty pathetic, actually.
Each individual rock would have a Type, since even Luna and Pluto get them. Type-Ceres might be kinda good, I guess.

>>2685917
Yeah but they'd all get along rather well and therefore work very well as a team.

If they wanted they'd just invade earth enmasse but decided "Fuck earth, we don't wanna help you."

Isn't it sad, Type Dactyl.

OUps
">>2685883"
HEHE ~_~
>>2685883

>>2684491
for a marble phantasm(arc), if you have a bag of 100 marbles, 99black and 1white, you could pull out the white marble every time

for a reality marble (shirou), if you have a bag off 100 marbles, 99 black and 1 white, you turn all 100 marbles white

>>in seconds before it even knew what was going on.
= it killed him in one 99999999 HP damage attack

>>2685858
What does Japan think of the /jp/ chart?

>>2686042
I thought no one took it serious

>>2686031

"Oh hey this looks like an interesting boss batt--GAME OVER"

OHKO then?