/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>2480955

He was talking about Broken Phantasms.

in b4 some retard actually falling for this shit

>>2480970

No, I was talking about in UBW when he met Gil

>>2480974

In after some poor troll trying to troll and fail miserably.

Their weapons, just like themselves are just a lump of heavily concentrated magic. Nothing more.

Future Shirou is a pretty weak heroic spirit

As they're not solid beings, they can phase into magic.

As their Noble Phantasms are a part of them, they too can phase into magic, to be recalled when the wielder wishes.

>Also, are their weapons destructible ?

To manually destroy them, you'd need to pit them against a weapon maybe 5 ranks higher or be very, very tenacious.
If the wielder chooses, they can overload their own weapon to increase it by one rank, and destroy it in one ultimate move. (this is the Broken Phantasm >>2480970 mentioned)

Makes you wonder what the fuck rank Gilgamesh would get if he Broken Phantasm'd Ea.

>>2481074

That's because Rin is a terrible magus and botched the summoning like a bitch.

>>2481096

>Makes you wonder what the fuck rank Gilgamesh would get if he Broken Phantasm'd Ea.

ENUMA ELISH... DX!

I apologize for that orz

>>2481074
Actually though, in a normal Grail War, not the haxor versions like the 4th and 5th, he would have been an average Servant. Just those two wars had demi-gods (Gil, Lancer, Berserker) and Medusa and Media who were not heroes.

>>2481074
>>2481114

Actually due to the HAXness of UBW, he's one of the best.

I.E.

Materialize Gram to own Saber.
Materialize Herpe to own Rider. (If its powers against divinity are true, it'd be effective against Berserker, Lancer, and Gilgamesh too.)
Materialize Caladbolg (I or II) to own Lancer.
He could beat Caster and Assassin (True) naturally, and he can just snipe Assassin (Fake) from afar.

EMIYA's war.

>>2481128
>Materialize Gram to own Saber.
I don't think that will work since his projected Gram will have its rank degraded.

Besides, his best option for fighting Saber is to snipe her with Broken Phantasms. Failing that, he could go for a Crane Wing, which may have the capability of owning Saber, whether normal or Alter version.

>>2481096
The weapons Shirou and Gilgamesh were using against each other were breaking apart, and, unless Shirou was using the Broken Phantasm method too, Shirou's Noble Phantasms are one-rank lower than any of Gilgamesh's. And no other heroic spirit than Archer is going to use Broken Phantasm, it would severely damage their weapon to the point of being unusable, and they can't make more like Archer.

>>2481148

>Shirou's Noble Phantasms are one-rank lower than any of Gilgamesh's

Gil was literally just tossing them, not firing them as Noble Phantasms.

I.E., the Gungnir in his collection was not going to unerringly hit Shirou like it should, as Gil doesn't know how to use it like that.

Though they had the power of Noble Phantasms contained in them, they were all baseline rank. Completely opposite to Shirou, who could Trace their History and use them at full power - 1.

>And no other heroic spirit than Archer is going to use Broken Phantasm

Wwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeelll...
What if it's the last opponent of the HGW, and they know it'll work or something?
Or they get Command Spell'd.

>>2481143

What's to say he can't make a Gram II to fire around?

>>2481148

If we assume that their NPs can be rematerialise, then why not ?

LOL even their body can be regenerated(see Spark Liners High)

>>2481167
>What's to say he can't make a Gram II to fire around?
That reminds me, how was Shirou able to modify Caladbolg? Did he somehow see the original Caladbolg, imagined modifications for it, projected it, then recorded it in UBW?

>>2481184

So long as their body hasn't been KILLED (sufficient damage to heart or brain).

Using the Broken Phantasm will KILL the weapon.

>>2481148
Gil gets a minus rank for his lack of knowledge with them too doesn't he?

>>2481190

I thought he got a minus-everything-and-drop-to-E.

>>2481190
no, emiya only gets the degradation because the weapons he owns are forgeries

>>2481190
Only when he fights with them in person.

>>2481167
Gilgamesh was directly opposing Shirou's Noble Phantasms in melee combat; I'm not talking about the sword rain. They are still Noble Phantasms and they still retain their normal rank, it doesn't matter that Gilgamesh was using it. Gilgamesh is able to unleash a Noble Phantasms true power as well, as we saw in the Fate route. His weapons don't take any reduction in rank like Shirou's.

I suppose they could use Broken Phantasm in a situation like that, there's nothing saying they couldn't. But most likely they won't, their Noble Phantasms are like a part of them, and losing it would leave a huge hole in them.

Reading all of these,

Has everybody in here failed to notice that Hassan can't rematerialise his dagger ?

Completely redundant,dude.

>>2481213

I took that as the Daggers being part of him, he can rematerialized himself to replenish them when he gets a break, but against someone with a distinct advantage against Spirits like Kotomine that's not a very good idea.

>>2481213
What? Doesnt he materialise them all the time. He keeps throwing them all the time.

>>2481207

Speaking of Gil vs Shirou,

why didn't he just, you know, chained Shirou like he did with Berserker in UBW when he knew he was losing the fight ?

>>2481213

Darks are not Noble Phantasms. Zabaniya is.

>>2481221
The chain works on Divine creatures.

>>2481221
Because he never thought he would lose to a lowlife mongrel.

>>2481221
The whole reason Gilgamesh lost is because he wasn't thinking, his arrogance got the better of him and he realized too late that Shirou was too dangerous. He did use the chain at the end when trying to pull himself out.

>>2481221

The power of Enkidu ~Binding Chains of Heaven~ are directly proportional to the divinity of the target. Hercules and Cuchulainn are both demigods, so it's super effective.

As Emiya has zero divinity, he is a mongrel who does not deserve to even be touched by Enkidu.

>>2481219

Go play HF route, dude.

>>2481222

Funny how he can keep using it after Saber cut it clean right of his arm.

>>2481237

Because it's a Noble Phantasm, derp.

He CAN rematerialize it. Parrying it only stops it once.

>>2481231
>>2481232

Well, he did try to use Ea, and seeing how his Chain of Heaven bind Hercules so quickly, you'd have thought it would be more appropriate to stop the advancing foe first.

>>2481235

But that mongrel is used as an anchor with that Chain in the end, what are you talking about ?

>>2481256

>But that mongrel is used as an anchor with that Chain in the end, what are you talking about ?

Desperate situations call for desperate measures.
Doesn't mean he was worthy.

>>2481256

He was panicking already.

>>2481256
Yeah, you'd have thought. But like I said, Gil wasn't thinking straight, that's the reason he lost. Wasn't it said that he could have ended the grail war in one night had he wanted to? I think that was the 4th war, but it goes to show how much his arrogance cost him.

After F/SN, I read Fate/Zero.
Then I realized how much more awesome Gilgamesh was there. Fucking Grail corruption.

>>2481263

Doesn't change the fact that he was binded by it at least once, which fail your previous argument.

>>2481271
Its not so much that he was corrupted. King of Heroes is uncorruptable. Its just that being doused in all the worlds evils caused a change in priorities for him, thats all

>>2481276

Would dousing him with All the Good Things in this Life revert him back to normal ?

>>2481277
....Baridiche?

>>2481289
Fate/testarossa

>>2481281
No, you shower him with gold, wine and women.
Then he'll be back.

>>2481143
It's heavily implied that Alter Saber's improved skills allow her to block and dodge the 'sword rain' from UBW or Gates of Babylon.
Crane Wing Three Ream would still own her ass anyway.

>>2481292
And Enkidu mansex. Lots and lots of hot, steamy, sweaty Enkidu mansex.

Fuck yeah.

>>2481293
"
Divine skills, flawless and firm
Our strength rips the mountains
Our swords split the water
Our names reach the imperial villa
The two of us cannot hold heavens together
—Two rivals, walking their own life."

>>2481304

I've always wonder why the fuck they called him King of Heroes. Does being the first hero in the world grant you that title ?

>>2481316
It's because he's the strongest.

>>2481293
>Crane Wing Three Ream

If you mean that Gundam faggotry I saw in FSN anime version, I think you've made quite a wrong statement,sir.

>>2481316

Every other hero in the world follows in his footsteps and plays with the King's toys.

They are but women and children lined up against him.

He is their King.

>>2481311
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Shirou_vs_Black_Saber_-_END
I always wondered what those bracketed words after each line of the poem meant. Another translation, perhaps?

>>2481316
He is a hero who the gods couldn't kill. started civilization by building the first grand city and kingdom, is absurdly strong(even with a human body and mana of orphans and throwing weapons he never mastered, since he PUNCHED stuff when he was alive), collected every treasure that existed in the world at that point before his end, and almost EVERY NP and legend in that world was based on something he owned.

So, yeah.

>>2481325

That's Kanshou and Bakuya Overedge, the evolution of Crane Wing.

Crane Wing is what we read in Sparks Liner High.

>>2481311
That version makes much more sense, but the orignal sounds somewhat like a poem.

'Divine Skill flawless and firm'
'Strength moves mountains'
'Blade cuts water'
'Life approaches the imperial villa'.
'Two Great Men shared life'

>>2481319

Where's your right arm now, King of Heroes ?

>>2481336
Still holding Ea, thank you very much

>>2481339

GAME OVER

>>2481336
In b4 gremrin's hand puns.

>>2481331

It would be more epic if TM'd cared enough to put in a different bgm, Emiya or the one in that last fight with Kotomine would be awesome

>>2481311
>>2481334
A stance that doesn't need any opening
Skills as a mountain
Skills that cross the Yellow River
A reputation ending in heavens
The rivals walk their own life

amidoinitrite?

Hey guys can you give me some recommendation on VNs like FSN ?

You know, the ones that doesn't have some good moral faggotry in it, no power haxx or shounen bullshit ?

PS. no tsukihime, princess waltz or SnU

>>2481385
>VNs like FSN ?

>doesn't have some good moral faggotry in it, no power haxx or shounen bullshit ?

>>2481348
she seems to have lost the upper hand

>>2481395
>lol wat is a troll

>>2481395

you know, you could've said 'no'.

Hey I like shounen in my VNs, What VNs do you suggest that have plenty of shounen?

I like moral faggotry and powerlevel hax too.

>>2481448
Shounen doesn't really define anything, any VN that is not Adult only qualifies.
As for moral faggotry, I have no idea what it entails for a character or the story. You need a prim faceless hero, an anti-hero, a borderline insane teen trying to be a superhero in a world that doesn't accept him?

And if you want pace, battle parameters and scenes to be similar to regular action fighting series, there are very few of them, due to the format of the medium.

>>2481128
About Lancer, Archer couldn't beat him with Caldablog because he's not IRISH (or Scottish for that matter because part of the House of Ulster went on to Scotland to start clans there). For Caldablog to work, one has to be descended from the House of Ulster, which Emiya Shirou isn't.

Or if he was, that would explain the red hair.

And, actually, in the Grail War it would be Lancer who would give him the most trouble. Lancer has a skill rank B that he can hear arrows being fired at him so he can dodge. So, to take Lancer out Archer'd have to fight him hand to hand and then pull something out of his ass, and considering who Lancer was . . .

Hell, if we're going by legends, other than Gilgamesh and Hercles, Lancer would have wiped the floor with everyone. Especially King Aurthur.

>>2481408
sauce

>>2481471

>About Lancer, Archer couldn't beat him with Caldablog because he's not IRISH (or Scottish for that matter because part of the House of Ulster went on to Scotland to start clans there). For Caldablog to work, one has to be descended from the House of Ulster, which Emiya Shirou isn't.

Did you miss the fact that he Traces the History of the weapon?
As far as the Traced weapon is concerned, it's in the hands of its natural wielder.

>And, actually, in the Grail War it would be Lancer who would give him the most trouble.

He never even tried Tracing Caladbolg on him every time they clashed.
If he did, he would've won. Archer needs to be strategic to win, but HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WINNING.
He just wants to kill the young idiot wannabe-hero.

>Hell, if we're going by legends, other than Gilgamesh and Hercles, Lancer would have wiped the floor with everyone.

Luck Rank E.

>Did you miss the fact that he Traces the History of the weapon?
>As far as the Traced weapon is concerned, it's in the hands of its natural wielder.

You mean he no only copies it, but he gets past the copy-protection too?

Shirou's the greatest pirate ever!

>>2481478
It doesn't work that way. Weapons in Archer's hands only count as what you would consider "held by the original wielder" because he has used them so often and has trained to use them all. All of his UBW information is collected from his own experience and vision.

The geass is also an external thing. It's something that affects Lancer based upon conditions he has set, not set by the sword Caladbolg. He is not required to submit to defeat unless the wielder is actually a descendant of Ulster.

>>2481484

Tracing_violates_Copyright.jpg

>>2481487

>Weapons in Archer's hands only count as what you would consider "held by the original wielder" because he has used them so often and has trained to use them all

How in the hell was Shirou swordfighting with Berserker (for all of two seconds) using Caladbolg in the Fate route, then? Shirou's never even touched Caladbolg.
He Traces the capabilities of the weapon.

>>2481493
Then how can you account for the difference in skill between he and Archer ?
Simple, even if he downloads part of the weapon's history, he would need years to master them as well as Archer does.

>>2481503

Naturally, but that doesn't mean he gets at least 2 seconds of fighting as well as the Hero that held it, minus 1.

>>2481493
He does indeed trace the capabilities. However, you'll note that it immediately broke, too. So did Shirou's Kanshou and Bakuya. And his skill in using his weapons was always subpar in comparison to Archer, even taking into account one being an eirei.

Even if Shirou gains UBW after colliding with Archer, being the same person in the same time frame, their respective level of experience and knowledge of the weapons they want to use is different. Shirou, even trying to use every step in creation, still creates sticks when compared to Archer, who can throw out multiple swords of great quality in a short span of time. And Shirou's skill is mundane, even trying to emulate Archer's.

Just because it exists for him in UBW doesn't mean he can instantly use it like a master.

>>2481493
Shirou traced CALIBURN to fight Berserker, not Caldablog because he'd seen it in Saber's dreams.

>>2481487

Right, Cu Chulihan put the geeas on himself after kicking that one guy's ass so next time he fought someone in the house of Ulster he'd submit defeat as a favor. So, Emiya Shirou is not descended from the House of Ulster, ergo, Calablog does not work.

>>2481532
Meaning Shirou is a Faker of a Faker.

>>2481535

I can stand spelling errors, but "Caldablog" made me laugh.

So what does it mean to be descended from Ulster?

>>2481532

I'm not quite sure, let's not talk about what the VN didn't really tell us, do we ?

>>2481566

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster

wat's FSN? sounds interesting?

>>2481471
>For Caldablog to work, one has to be descended from the House of Ulster, which Emiya Shirou isn't.

>Or if he was, that would explain the red hair.

Come to think of it, what WAS Shiro's family name before he got adopted? I mean, given that he's some nobody who's just appeared out of nowhere, summoned a WTFhax Servant (mostly through dumb luck and plot admittedly, but still.) and has his own Marble Phantasm that in on instance allowed him to recreate Zelretches Prism Crystal Sword of DOOM, you would think that there would have been SOME information on his bloodline somewhere.

>>2481595

>given that he's some nobody who's just appeared out of nowhere

He was a kid Kiritsugu saved.

>summoned a WTFhax Servant (mostly through dumb luck and plot admittedly, but still.)

Entirely plot, actually. The method Kiritsugu saved him with, in fact.

>and has his own Marble Phantasm that in on instance allowed him to recreate Zelretches Prism Crystal Sword of DOOM

Reality Marble =/= Marble Phantasm, and it was because he was in a fire which burned away his concept of "self". Reality Marbles create one's mind, and Shirou's mind was burnt to a very simple concept; a sword.

>>2481595
Shirou's real name is Zelretch.

>>2481595
but that's all he is. Just some lucky kid plucked out of the fire.

also, reality marble. not marble phantasm

>>2481604

Don't you mean Schweinorg?

>>2481604

What a TWEEST

What the hell is FSN?

>>2481616
Fox Sports Net

>>2481611
>but that's all he is. Just some lucky kid plucked out of the fire.

Yeah sure, and Shiki just happened to have the Eyes of Death Perception by random fluke.

Right.

>>2481514
The point is that he doesn't get that. He wouldn't fight as well as the hero in question. He would have a good chance of trying to emulate it, but he's subpar until he actually gets enough battle experience to match the history of the weapon.

There's a huge difference between pulling out a hack job Caliburn and cleaving a distracted Berserker with the help of Saber, and fighting with real success.

>>2481619

Actually, he was a child of Nanaya who all have Mystic Eyes of the highest order.

His Eyes in particular are designed to see "unnatural things", and the particular accident he had when he was young forced that to be "Death".

>>2481618
No seriously tho.

>>2481633
Federation of Student Nationalists

>>2481628

>>2481639

Well, if you're trying to imply that Shirou's actually from some sort of Reality Marble clan that died in the fire, I'd have to say that's pretty far out there.

>>2481628
They're not "highest order", and they're not really mystic eyes, in the normal sense. Kiri's, Shiki's father's eyes, didn't really do that much. They let him see the flow of people's thoughts as colors.

Real mystic eyes can do stuff like compel obedience, form contracts, and other important things. The Nanaya clan was able to see the world in unusual ways thanks to their psychic gift.

Fujino's eyes were seriously "high order" psychic eyes. The ability to turn anything into a fulcrum and bend it... combined with clairvoyance. That's fucking scary.

Nvm, figured it out. All plastered up in one of your pics.

>>2481611

That picture is awesome beyond the levels of awesome.

It's like me, my waifu and Lancer collaborated on it. (Of course, I just brought the tea and cake and watched them draw it.)

>>2481645
>Well, if you're trying to imply that Shirou's actually from some sort of Reality Marble clan that died in the fire, I'd have to say that's pretty far out there.

Well, in theory if that were true, It would have to be a family who'se magic bloodlines had largely died out, lost their magic crest and become a normal family, like the Makiri. Except Shirou get's this power back with a combination of having Avalon in him and doing his SUICIDAL NIGHT TRAINING every goddamn day.
But it's still nowhere near what a proper magus would expect to have.

>>2481673
More likely, the combination of FIRE + AVALON INSIDE, his own haphazard training, and whatever natural inclinations he had turned him into a heretical, mutated magus that can only use a Reality Marble that his own shattered existence called into being.

>>2481688
>FIRE + AVALON INSIDE

Fire or contact with Angry Manyaa ?

>>2481688
That's why I love Shirou, he is fucked up, THUS he has his specific ability.

Gilgamesh doesn't act differently in the Fifth War because he's "corrupted" or anything like that. He acts differently because he's alive again--flesh and blood, no need for a Master, etc.

>>2481650
the artbook has better ones, but the guy who scanned it, didn't do a great job so many have gaps

I'd still want to know what his pre-adoption family name was though.

>>2481704
Well, Angry Manjew was way off in the distance and turned into a roman candle almost immediately, so it's more likely just the fire and, you know, watching hundreds of people burn to death right before him, then getting an ancient relic surgically grafted into his body.

>>2481725

Faggots can't even scan shit without fucking it up

>>2481727
Inui.

>>2481742

So he's an ALIEN.

>>2481742

Oh. Okay.

Wait, where did you find that out? Don't tell me it's in the VN itself, and I've just forgotten, I'll be more than a little embarrased if that's the case.

>>2481742
>>2481759
This is his older brother.

>>2481742
nah, his name was enjou

>>2481759
It was more of a hair/awesomeness joke.

>>2481776

I'm looking at the middle one... I'm one part lolling, two parts WTFing and one part "I really need to finish all of Tsukihime".

I'm sort of stuck on Ciels route, I just can't bring myself to like her or her storyline, I feel like an ass everytime I have to choose her over Arcruied.

>>2481851

>I feel like an ass everytime I have to choose her over Arcruied.

Hahaha. well enjoy that routes final descision.

>>2482337

I'm going to have a harder time with this route than I did with Heavens Feel aren't I?

I mean at least Heavens Feel had Kotomine, Manly Awesome Shiro and explainations for the unexplained shit from the other routes.

This probably isn't even gonna have that.

>>2482364

No not a harder time per-say but i recon you will feel very conflicted at the end. Especially what happens after you choose which option in the final descision. I sharn't spoil it for you though, just build up some tension.