/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Fate: Shirou is an idiot, but he does some pretty manly things.
UBW: Shirou is GAR as fuck.
HF: Shirou is a stupid pussy and gets his ass killed.

Is there anything more to be said?

Also, other than Hollow Ataraxia, there's Fate/Zero, but that's raito noberu.

>>2480054
There's also Fate/Unlimited Codes, fighting game for ps2.
As you probably already figured out, none of the three are translated.

>>2480054
>>2480068
I see, thanks.
But I disagree, I think Shirou was pretty manly in HF, though in a different way from his Fate and UBW versions.

Fate/stay Night Philosophy 101

-Fate-

Shirou: I want to save everybody!
END.

-UBW-

Shirou: I want to save everybody!
Archer: That is both a logical contradiction and a denial of the self.
Shirou: But the ideal encompasses an aesthetic that makes the endless journey worth it. Why can't I selfishly pursue selflessness?
Archer: FFFFFFFFFFFF
END.

-Heaven's Feel-

Shirou: I want to save everybody!
Archer: That is a logical contradiction and a denial of the self. If you do not realize this, you get no Sakura sex.
Shirou: You're right. I'm a moral relativist. God is dead.
Kotomine: But I'm still evil somehow, right?
Shirou: Right.
END.

HF was the best route. Shirou had the vast majority of his greatest moments, and Kotomine was pretty intense. He didn't randomly fall in love with a fucking ghost but actually developed his feelings for someone he already liked.

There were days where you did nothing at all, but lol taking Saber on a date.

>>2480090
Most hate comes from the oversimplification 'He did it only for sex with an undeserving slut', but just the Ilya moments make this Shirou incarnation worth it, IMO.

>>2480116
That's not an oversimplification.

>>2480155
It is, since you ignore at least 50% of the content and point of the route, but Anon has a fickle heart and memory.

>>2480169
So you'd suggest that we take recognize his shitty excuses as valid reasoning?

>>2480180
It has to do more than realizing that she is one of the factors and catalysts for Shirou's decisions, and not the sole one.
And while this specific one might be shitty or not, the basis for your opinion is...well, stupid for the most part.

>>2480044
Sauce on OP pic?

>>2480191
It can never be wrong to hate an amoral faggot.

>>2480272
He is not amoral, considering while it's not his duty nor he is forced to, he still goes his own way to save the one he cares about, and in extension the whole fucking world that would be devoured by the shadow.

>>2480281
Except for the part where he could have killed her earlier and saved many more lives.

Amoral.

>>2480289
Not killing someone because it will PROBABLY end the trouble sooner, amoral does not make you, silly anon.

You are not a HERO OF JUSTICE though.

>>2480044
Sauce of OP?

>>2480301
Hmm, I think it's made by BADON, but I can't remember which one it is.

>>2480299
>PROBABLY
You sure do have a weird definition of "probably". I've never heard it used to mean "definitely" before!

>>2480317
Even if Sakura is dead or cut off, the shadow is still there and there are ways for it to come out, as seen later.
But that is meta knowledge, so I guess it's not a major factor.

>>2480323
1) Yes, Shirou did not know that then.
2) It could only "come out" without Sakura after Shirou had sat around and allowed her to eat enough for it to be born.

>>2480326
It had already eaten enough to partially exist on it's own, could possibly binded to another human.
Also, Shirou deciding 'Like hell I have to kill her, there has to be another way' does not make him amoral.
Rather it's a a very difficult desicion and burden to carry.

If he was like 'Well, I'll take my sweet time till somehow we figure out something, it doesn't matter who dies', it WOULD be amoral, but you know Shirou is not like that.

Do you really think Fate/UBW Shirou would have killed Sakura in the same situation? I highly doubt it.
In the end his personality didn't change all that much if at all. Just his views and priorities.

>>2480386
Bizarro anon?

>>2480386
>Do you really think Fate/UBW Shirou would have killed Sakura in the same situation?
Fate? Maybe not. UBW? Most definitely.

>>2480466
No, no he wouldn't.
Unless it's the 5% that leads to Archer.
And these are not the greatest odds.
Shirou as seen in the 3 F/SN paths would never accept immediate killing as a solution, especially someone who is a victim on it's own right.

>>2480475
You know, I've heard a different "percent" thing from every fucking anon on this board by now, but I've yet to see a single link. Fanon bullshit until you prove otherwise.

Also, even if there was such a percent, Shirou would be unlikely to become Archer on that path because he has much more resolve than Archer, making it certain he'd kill Sakura.

Shirou's commitment to his ideal became unshakable over the course of UBW. There is no question that he would kill Sakura if it would save THOUSANDS.

And hell, Kotomine is much more of a victim than that slutty omnicidal maniac.

>>2480503
Kotomine?No, not really.
Also, Nasu in F/SN(spring scene after unlocking all Dojo stamps) gives a 10% chance for Fate Shirou becoming Archer, 5% for UBW, and none for HF.

And even if he did end up killing her somehow , which is doubtful, he would try everything else first, and not make it his first choice.
If you think otherwise, you have completely misunderstood Shirou's character in each path.

>>2480516
>And even if he did end up killing her somehow , which is doubtful, he would try everything else first, and not make it his first choice. If you think otherwise, you have completely misunderstood Shirou's character in each path.
What, are you saying he'd never do it? Even after becoming close to her, there was still the Mind of Steel option. If he spent all of that time away from her and building his resolve, there's no way in hell he wouldn't kill her.

>>2480546
I'm confident the chance are both very low, and it would be the last thing he would try to do, instead of an early choice.
The only 'practical' incarnation(as in, kill the pain and do what saves the most first) of Shirou is Archer and what Mind of Steel bad end results too.

>>2480516
-Kotomine is an evil sadist deep down inside
-Despite that, he tries to be 'good' as that's what his environment wants him to be. He tries for most of his life
-His reward for the above is a life full of unhappiness; no matter how hard he tries to be 'good', only 'evil' thinks can make him happy

Sounds like a victim to me.

>>2480623
Kotomine will never experience what humans call "happiness".
Ever.

And then again...

Archer is evil Shirou from an alternate future. End of thread.

>>2480623
He is distorted and unhappy, but NOBODY else is at fault for that.
He is not a victim, per say.

>>2480643
>NOBODY else
Except for EVERYBODY who tries to enforce good. All they're doing is torturing him. Evil, wouldn't you say?

>>2480653
No, not really.
If by feeding my dog, I cause some random bastard anguish because his sole source of happiness is seeing my dog hungry, I'm not evil except by his retarded scale/.

No matter how relative you make it, Kotomine himself acknowledges that the others are not evil.

>>2480044
Heaven's Feel True ending is the only one that made me cry.
Sakura was so destroyed after years of torture that she came to rely too much on the man she loved. It worked for a time, yes, but he had to sacrifice his life in exachange for hers (and to save the world too, although that's more than a side effect for Shirou than anything else)
Result? She spends the rest of her life waiting for him in the same place. Both as a punishment for her crimes and to honor her promise (a recurring thing on TM works) she waited and waited for someone that'll never come, living on her mind time and time again the memories of their time togheter (Arcuied Style)

I should be happy for her though. She got what she wanted in the end.

>>2480661
Oh, great. So, are you an egoist or an absolutist?

Wait, don't bother answering that. You need to die either way.

>>2480666
>She got what she wanted in the end
A dick?

>>2480666
That's not the True End.

>>2480666
That's the Normal End

>>2480669
...Yeah, so the puppy killers or people who find pleasure in other people's suffering can enjoy life too.

>>2480684
I never said they needed to enjoy life, just that they don't deserve to suffer it. Even you should have some idea of what that might mean.

>>2480672
Shriou's dick, yes.

>>2480703
Of course they should not suffer, but neither should OTHERS suffer for their non-suffering.

>>2480709
Okay, you're really just that dense, aren't you?

This is going to be a complete waste of my time, isn't it?

>>2480718
Arguing moral relativity on an image board is kinda pointless from the get go.
The point is that we need to prioritize such thing according to the majority and the standards set by centuries of development in our society, thus there is no absolute truth concerning good and evil.
If one cannot abide by them , he is either wrong or beyond hope and cannot be treated the same as everyone else.

>>2480730
That's bullshit. The majority is unworthy and the standards they set are contradictory.

We need only rule according to the worthy few--the elite. Everyone who cannot find happiness in an elitist society should be granted the mercy of death.

>>2480735
Who decides what makes the elite?
Everyone has a different idea of what makes the other special.
If it's not something most can agree on, there will only be even worse conflict and confusion.
Until someone can find the perfect solution everyone agrees on, and be accepted easily as the new standard, majority will have to do.

>>2480679
I've been looking for that pic, thanks.
Though it's a bit unsettling that there's no Lancer.

>>2480643
There doesn't need to be a perpetrator for there to be a victim. For example, one can become a victim of an accident. Whose fault is it? Often, nobody's. But that doesn't make the person any less of a victim.

Kotomine got screwed over by Fate by getting his twisted personality. If he had been luckier and born with a normal personality, he would've been able to enjoy life. But because fate decided to screw him over, no matter how hard he tried to be 'good', he just can't be happy unless he's doing or seeing 'evil'.

>>2480735
Look kiddo, this' simple math.
Save the three old dudes or the baby? Baby.
Save the three teenagers or the two young mans? The teenagers.
Save the president or the six little girls. President.
Save the rich kid or the poor kid. The rich kid.

The people with important political occupations and longer life expectance are most important than the rest. Poor people are less important because they're likely to die sooner than rich people. Criminals are less important than non-criminals because they're less useful to society. You follow?

>>2480771
Then he is not really a victim, if we judge by his speech and actions, the fucker really learned how to enjoy his life.

>>2480747
Silliness. You would abstain from seeking the truth simply because it has not been granted to you.

The only way to adjust the ratio of pleasure and pain is through the application of proper philosophy and ideals. The only elite suited to philosophy and idealism is the intellectual elite.

And the majority will have to do? It cannot do! It has never done!

Look at the world around us--a world in which nearly everyone will, at some point, find great suffering. This is the world created by your precious majority.

Unanimous agreement? I'm fine with that. However, the people here, in this world, today, are incapable of coming to a unanimous agreement. The only solution to the problem of unanimity is to put to rest those like yourself who would reject change out of irrational, primitive fear!

>>2480772
Yes, I just don't agree with silly human math.
Also, it doesn't have much to do with what we were discussing, since you just try to give worth to people, disregarding intentions.

>>2480776
There hvae always been time where the majority decided, and times where a specific minority put itself above the rest and commanded and decided.

Even now, the world has examples of both.
Can you really claim that one side of the two works better as we are now?

>>2480772
And then the baby grows up to be an insane dictator and causes the entire human race to be wiped out via nuclear warfare.

>>2480791
The majority is always the same, but there are many "specific minorities". Your logic is terribly flawed.

>>2480802
No majority is ever the same, considering the many changing accepted truths throughout history, and the varied ones around our fucking planet.

Majority or minority, it's always people who decide, and all of them accept a truth that's different.

Which one is better?
Who knows.
But I'd rather take my chances with the one more people are comfortable.

HF was bullshit. True ends are supposed to be sad.

>>2480810
Err...no.

>>2480807
>No majority is ever the same, considering the many changing accepted truths throughout history, and the varied ones around our fucking planet.
You are a complete fucking retard. Great job taking it completely out of context.

>Which one is better? Who knows.
I do. Plenty of other people do. You just refuse to accept it.

>>2480818
Then show me a few successful examples that will break the delusion.
And I did not take anything out of context.

>>2480825
>Then show me a few successful examples that will break the delusion.
And now you're not providing any context. That's just fantastic.

I'm tired of you. It was clear from the beginning that you were one of those who would need to be killed. I think I'm going to occupy myself with some Ark of Napishtim, now.

>>2480840
...It would be obvious that since we talk about the fucking world we live on, you could provide examples of a society or groups within that worked well under the structure you insist is better.

And surmising that I need to die because I follow society's current standards, having no idea of my worth, my contribution or mindset is childish beyond compare.
Good luck imagining your perfect world while you fap in front of your computer.

>>2480840
This Anon goes outside and finds this notebook. I wonder what will happen next.

>>2480902
I was checking this thread one last time to see what my dear populist might say.

I would start off with setting all of the more powerful politicians and businessmen in the world to die at the same time. I'd probably have them leave messages behind, too, though I'd have to think for a while before deciding what those messages would be.

>>2480902
He'll write down his name on the first page so it doesn't get lost

>>2480753
lancer never gets a good end. Due to shitty luck, mostly.

>>2480206
BADON Double Spiral.

The only doujin with Saber/Archer sex and by god it is awesome.

>>2481105
sauce on your picture?

>>2480951
How entertaining that the Irishman should have bad luck.